By Her Hands

Episode 12: In this episode of the By Her Hands podcast, hosts Lexi, Lydia, and Justine welcome guest Jewel Daniels Radford to explore the true meaning of resilience. Jewel, the founder of Inspire and Serve, redefines resilience not as innate toughness, but as a "mind muscle" strengthened through practice and the support of a "pack" or tribe. The conversation emphasizes that being resilient requires unlearning ego-driven perfection and choosing to be gentle with yourself during hardships. Jewel shares her personal journey, including her decision to trust her instincts by turning down Harvard to attend a school that better aligned with her identity and spirit. The group also discusses the unique pressures women face to prove themselves, highlighting that true strength often involves vulnerability and the courage to ask for help. The episode illustrates how staying positive and trusting the journey can transform challenges into divine purpose and community impact.

Thanks for being here with us on the By Her Hands podcast. We hope you've been inspired to think about resilience in your own life. We all know setbacks are part of it. How you handle them shapes what's next. Remember, you carry more power than you think.

You've been listening to the By Her Hands podcast brought to you by WaterStep. Around the world, girls carry so much responsibility, hope, and the work of caring for their families. WaterStep equips them with tools and training that help them protect their own health, support their schools, and lead change in their communities. When girls have the tools they need, their power isn't something they search for, it is something they carry. If you want to explore more about helping women and girls be more resilient, visit waterstep.org.

Disclaimer:

Listeners are reminded that the ideas, opinions, and information expressed on the By Her Hands podcast belong solely to the guests and do not necessarily reflect the views, policies, or positions of WaterStep, its staff, partners, donors, or affiliates. This podcast is provided for informational and educational purposes only, and is not intended as professional advice of any kind. WaterStep assumes no responsibility for actions taken based on the information provided.

For more Information about WaterStep and Its Mission

Website: www.WaterStep.org

To Learn more about Jewel's Organization

Website: www.InspireAndServe.org

To Buy a copy of Jewel's Book, Three Sides of Every Crisis

Amazon: Click Here

If this episode inspired you, please Like, Subscribe, and Share to help more young women discover the confidence to become positive influences in their own communities.

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Episode 11: In this episode of the By Her Hands podcast, Lydia, Lexi, Justine, and Daniel discuss how courageous voices can transform communities. Daniel shares stories from his nonprofit work in Colombia, explaining that lasting change comes from listening to local leaders and helping amplify their voices rather than speaking for them. The conversation explores the unique challenges women face in being heard and why authentic partnerships create stronger communities. Together, the hosts reflect on leadership, service, cultural barriers, and the importance of standing up for what matters. The episode encourages listeners to recognize that they already have a voice and the ability to inspire change.

Episode Transcript:

You can feel it when something needs to be said and you have a split second to decide. Do I say it or do I let it go? Because speaking up can change things, but it can also shift how people see you. So how do you decide? Today we're talking about the power of voice, how women and girls speaking up can shift conversations, challenge what's accepted, and change what happens next.

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You are listening to the By Her Hands Podcast, a space where young women figure things out together, who we are, what we want, and the power we already carry. It's brought to you by WaterStep a global leader in safe water innovation. Learn more about how women and girls are shaping healthier futures, each by her own hands at WaterStep.org.

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Lexi:

Hi, it's Lexi and welcome back to the By Her Hands podcast.

Lydia:

Hey, it's Lydia and it is so good to be here.

Justine:

Hi everyone. Very happy to be with you again.

Lexi:

So today I want to welcome our new guest, Daniel from Columbia. Daniel, can you tell us a little bit about yourself?

Daniel:

Sure. It's nice to be with you guys over here. Well, obviously I'm Daniel from Columbia. I have a family of four, two kids. They're ages eight and six. They eat like they are 18 and 16. Very active boys. They play football, baseball, so they're very active and they keep us active. So it's great. And probably, well, what you know about me is that I started Fundación Doulos, an NGO in Columbia 15 years ago actually. And so far we have been connecting and pretty much serving and being there for amazing people, inspiring individuals.

Lexi:

Can you tell us a little bit more about what your nonprofit does?

Daniel:

So when we started, we started to figure out that there were lots of initiatives already trying to do something, but we wanted to be there for those in communities that were doing amazing things, as I call them all the time, inspired individuals who were simply standing up for their community, for their people. So we wanted to be there for them. And that's why we decided to start Doulos, to help those who help and to pretty much be an initiative to walk alongside people and pretty much support them in any way we can. And we do that through, of course, training, but also it requires lots of mentoring and just being there for people, but also connecting them with resources. So that's pretty much what we do.

Lexi:

Wow, that's awesome. I know connecting them with resources, I know you have an amazing story. Can you share that with everyone listening?

Daniel:

Yeah, so it's pretty much stories like the one I had the opportunity to present at the WaterStep event recently about amazing people who are willing to even cross bridges of animosity and communities that have been divided for years and people who have been inspired to actually build a bridge where there is none. Like my friend Alex from a region called Choco, he actually took his water machine and turned it into a bridge to connect communities. So that's the type of resources we share. So when you share resources with these people who have this amazing perspective and initiative, it's simply amazing what they do with it. So it's never really about the resources per se. It's what people do with it. And what we find is that if you put the resources in the right hands, amazing things can happen.

Lexi:

Absolutely. So how are you involved with Alex in that process of bridging that gap between those two communities?

Daniel:

Yeah, so pretty much we connected over what I consider one of the cornerstones of development, which is safe water. So if you don't have safe water, you pretty much don't have anything. Even if you can solve the food problems and all that, even the nutrition is impacted by bad quality of water. But if you don't have water around you, you get sick. If you don't get water around you, guess who are the ones who are tasked to go and fetch water even miles away sometimes? Sometimes in some communities it's children, but most of the time women are the ones who are tasked to do that. So that hinders your ability to go to a school. So in any way you can, you start to see how that happens. So pretty much what we do is, okay, so if we can work together with these amazing leaders to solve these initiatives, to solve these problems, that's how initiatives start.

And that's pretty much what we do. We work with them to solve those essential issues.

Lydia:

So I remember hearing your story at the WaterStep Storytellers event and just being in awe of how much you have done and how you're so confident in your projects and just you seem like you really are someone who's excited to be doing the work that they're doing. And I'm sure that there's always ups and downs, but how do you stay focused and strong whenever there's issues?

Daniel:

Well, there are always hard days, as you know. I was just remembering, for instance, that in the team now we have some elements in place for self-care because to deal with when you go to communities and you see human need and pain, there's no way you cannot be touched by it. So in a way to have a team around you that supports you and that you can talk through issues, that's usually something that's very good to have. But to be honest, you cannot give up because the amazing people in communities are not giving up. So sometimes in this type of work, you tend to focus probably on the people who are supporting them. But in reality, when you go there, you share life with them, you go to their place, you even have some running jokes and all that. When you start to share life with them, they are the ones who actually start to teach you and support you.

So in a way, it's never about. I don't think development is about a one-direction flow of resources, but rather actually becoming a community with trust, with the confidence to work with each other. And that to me is what actually development is about togetherness, people coming together to solve common issues and to work together, even with our differences and all that. But when you start to build that type of relationship with the leaders, they start to teach you as much as you can give them. So that's the way you keep grounded, you keep working, and you keep going.

Justine:

And Daniel, thank you for sharing. And as you're speaking, we hear about the impact and it's great. And it made me think going back to my field experience, people don't always realize what it takes actually to have that impact, to create that impact, that togetherness, and the work that needs to happen before. You mentioned earlier how you listen to what is important to the communities.

And I was wondering, what would you say about the courage it takes to speak up? Because we're talking about the importance and the power of voice. And if no one is there to speak up either because they need water or there is a conflict going on, but there is someone who's just brave enough to say, "Hey, enough is enough." How does it work in the space that you are in? How important is picking up and just being brave and saying the right thing or saying the truth even if it's scary?

Daniel:

Well, I can tell you that in our context in Columbia, definitely speaking up is not the safest of activities. In many of the communities we are, actually, it can cost you your life. But when I talk to friends who are particularly in areas where there's no state, but rather the illegal groups are the ones who are governing. I think what they usually say is that it's never about them. Sometimes when you have this individual approach that, okay, so I want to play safe and I don't want to create some tension or anything because I'm caring about myself, but these guys care about their community and their care. It's so big that they're willing to risk anything. And I think that's the perspective as well. I think these type of people or these inspiring individuals definitely, they have something about stopping to only see it from an individual perspective, but they gain this awareness of what's going on.

And that awareness is what keeps them going to do what they do. And you cannot imagine the importance of people being listened to. When in a society or a community people, they don't feel listened [to]. That's the source of so many elements and issues within a society. So I think that to have people to be listened, I think that's very important in the process even.

Lexi:

Absolutely. So in your story, in the two communities, do you feel like they're both too afraid to speak up and Alex was the one that took that initiative and was not afraid to say something? Or how did that work and how did he have the courage to do that?

Daniel:

Yeah, I think as people, as they see, that's the importance of sometimes these individuals rising up because when you see someone doing that, people gain courage. And again, it's like you find a strength in numbers. Okay, so if I do it and I see more people daring to speak up, I suddenly gain that courage to also do it. And I see that as well.

Sometimes we think in terms of development about the big resources and the amounts and all that, and I don't see it that way. I think I see development as sometimes starting by one person, the power of one as someone who framed it. Someone who start to do that and out of that courageous initiative to stand up, a movement sparks and something start to happen in a community.

Justine:

Absolutely. Yeah, you definitely show us how once just someone who's willing to speak up can create change. It can just give the courage to others who find their own voice in that. It really starts with one. And I'm wondering how does it then go from, let's say from Alex, have you seen how Alex's courage and voice and leadership has sparked other interests or other people speaking up? In your line of work, how is what worked in one area inspiring others to speak up as well and take charge and create change?

Daniel:

Thank you for bringing that, Justine, because that's particularly one of the things that we do in our strategic view as Fundación Doulos. So pretty much a big chunk of my time is just making people meet each other and having, for instance, Alex walk into a room full of other leaders just to share his experience. And in that way, what's happening over there definitely inspires other people to do that.

Probably to give you a bit of context about who Alex is, Alex is one of the leaders who have worked with Fundación Doulos probably since the beginning. He lives in a region called Choco in, Colombia, which is one of the poorest regions probably in the continent. It's home for the largest probably indigenous population in the country. Also, many people from African descendants were taken to that region over there because it reaches in minerals. So they share a common story of being traditionally forgotten by government structures.

Just to give you a perspective, probably big NGOs are just entering to the area probably in five years time. So they have been traditionally neglected even by the development sector sometimes. So to find these type of people like Alex, when we found him, to be honest, we didn't need to start anything. He already has everything. This ambition for his community for development. The only thing we did was just connect with him and walk with him and build trust and a relationship enough to where he trusts us as well. So we share now this walk together. And the question we are always doing is, okay, so we have solved this, so what else can we solve together? And that's probably what a path of development looks like.

Justine:

How many women do you have? How many young girls do you see from, I would say, the movement you created, the momentum that you are having? What can you tell us about women and girls in that space, in areas where Alex lives and that they are forgotten? It's a very powerful word and it really. Yeah, it does something to my heart. It's like, how do you hear that word nowadays with all the means that we have? So it just made me wonder, what about women and young girls in such a difficult context, I would say?

Daniel:

I can tell you lots of stories. Actually, from the initiatives that we are probably running, probably 70% are women. The inspiring individuals I was talking about are probably mostly women. I can tell you lots of stories about many friends. Actually, I have one that's really fresh because of everything that is happening in Venezuela, in our neighborhood country with the earthquake. There is a lovely lady over there. She's called Zoraido. From the beginning, her house was damaged by the earthquake, but she hasn't stopped working ever since it happened. She has been going to the most affected region, La Guaira, from one community to the earth to check if everybody in her neighbor is safe. She has been working nonstop. And we've tried to say to her, "Hey, what about yourself?" And all that. But I know, but I know people are suffering. So I cannot rest until I am sure that everybody is safe.

I can tell you about Ruth in a city called Cartagena in Colombia, running an amazing initiative in one of the poorest neighborhoods over there. She's a cancer survivor. And even though she has been in pain for months, she still has the energy to keep going and to keep helping people. And to be honest, I was sitting down with her probably a couple months ago and ask her, "How do you even do it?" To me, it's like, how do you find the energy? And pretty much what you find these people is that they look beyond themselves.

Sometimes we can be so consumed about our needs as individuals that you find strength by looking around you and that gives you inspiration, courage, that gives you vision, that gives you energy, that gives you power, what you need to start and to lead.

And I think that's something I've learned from them, from all of them actually.

Lydia:

It is incredible to hear about this because I feel like a lot of the people we've talked to in where they live, especially the ladies living in the places in Africa and in Asia, just that women are not allowed to participate and not allowed to make a difference. And they've had to push so hard to be able to be included.

So it makes me feel good to hear that that is not the case everywhere and that not all ladies have to fight to be able to even make a difference in the first place. For your all's social system, is it allowed for ladies to have positions of power and to speak in their voices?

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Before we continue with our episode, let me take a minute to remind you that By Her Hands is a global program empowering women and girls through safe water access menstrual health management and economic opportunity. The program and this podcast are brought to you by WaterStep. Together, we believe that when a young woman can protect her own health, she leads. When she leads her family thrives, and when her family thrives, her whole community grows stronger. Learn more about how women and girls are shaping healthier futures each by her own hands at WaterStep.org.

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Daniel:

Yeah, thank you for bringing that up, Lydia, because I think I would see that as an iceberg situation where you have a system where you are pretty much from a legal point of view, you're allowed to speak and all that. But there are also probably some things that we cannot see around culture and around communities that sometimes prevent women to effectively doing so.

So sometimes you have, okay, so if you look at Columbia and you go to probably, I don't know, Wikipedia or wherever you search on the internet, you will say, oh yeah, women can stand up and all that. But for some people and in some communities, that's simply not the case. And that's probably something that is hidden from what's happening. Probably what I would say in our context, what hinders the voice of women is probably what you cannot see as opposed to what you can see.

If you go to our constitution in paper, everybody's subject to rights and all that and you can speak up. But if you actually go to the territories and probably the furthest places in Colombia, you would see that quickly that's simply not the case. So again, it's not a fight just about the structures that you can see. Probably the deepest probably hindrance to development is the structures you cannot see. And sometimes it's difficult to point out because it's invisible, but it's there. And definitely it's a barrier. So we need to break that barrier in order to press forward and to move ahead. And that's what women in our context struggle with. So there's nothing in constitution that prevents them to run on all that, but how many presidents have we had? Women, I mean, zero. If you look across the political spectrum, it's pretty much the same.

So again, it's probably an awareness that there are two types of structures. So what you could see, but what you have to really pay attention, that's something that only experience in the context can give you is what you cannot see, the hidden barriers.

Lexi:

So I'm wondering how do you navigate that with women? Say Alex in that situation had been a girl, do you think it would've led to the same outcome? How do you support women in finding their voice and speaking up for things that they don't see right?

Daniel:

Lexi, that's a very good question, I would say. Yeah, definitely Alex's story would have been different. What I can tell you about probably the way we approach this subject, it's probably taking the longer path. So the shorter path would be a perspective where you are going to break barriers for the women in order for them to move ahead. And that's probably what you consider, okay, yeah, it makes sense. I can do that, so I'm going to do that. But to be honest, development is probably about taking sometimes the longer path about them breaking their own barriers. You simply see yourself as someone who is there for them.

But probably the message I'm trying to convey is that they are the main characters of their own story. You don't take that away from them. They are to be the heroes of the story. They are to be the main characters who break the barriers.

And sometimes it obviously takes probably longer than you would expect if you would be the savior that comes from outside to solve a community's problem. That's easier. And that's probably more rewarding for social media, I would say, for instance, because it would make for amazing stories and amazing pictures like, "Oh yeah, I'm Daniel, I'm taking a selfie here, solving everybody's problem." But to be honest, that's great for social media, not so great for development.

So I would say that the only way that barriers can be turned is by the main actors themselves. And simply what the conversations you have around is probably so they feel probably listened [to] and you walk with them, not pushing them, but walk with them, trying to inspire toward conversations, trying to think about what's possible, but they have to make the decision to go through. That's something you cannot do for people.

And that's the hard part of development, I would say.

Justine:

You are just speaking to my heart right now. It's so powerful. It's so true. The fact that we overlook the actual society dynamics. We tend to hide behind the laws and everything that's formal that says there's nothing that say that you can. But that's the easy way because what we don't realize is that there are dynamics from the household, in the community, and then you go up that are in there that is just complicated to get through.

And you are speaking, and I'm just thinking about all the projects that we did where we are intentionally working with women, but the key word is participation. It's not just about empowerment, it's not just about leadership. It's just about something as simple as participating in the decisions, like having a seat and a voice at the table where decisions that are impacting their lives are made.

And I can tell you how many projects we had where we were like, okay, we're counting the participants or the beneficiaries. And oh yeah, we check the box. We have 50% of the participant in the projects being women. But in reality, there are women that are just sitting on the table that are not being heard.

And it takes just one person to ask them the question to realize that they have all the solutions because they are living it every single day. But they're overlooked and it is heartbreaking. And that's why I really like what you said about the togetherness. It doesn't matter where it came from. It just takes one person to speak up and to ask the question or to be intentional about bringing everyone on board. And then you will hear beautiful voice, powerful voices. It's true.

And I also want to share that it's not just about development. I consider myself as a leader. I've had many leadership positions as a woman. And I can tell you, I think more time than ever that I was the only woman in the room with other leaders. And even at that level, I struggled to find my voice. Because everybody comes in the room, men, they come in the room owning it.

They know what they do. They have that connection, they talk to each other. And then when they talk to me, it's like, oh, they have to change the tone. They have to change even the topic. Going to softer topics about family, about things that are a women's role. And in my mind I was like, "Okay, you're telling me that I should probably be going home and just taking care of the kids. I shouldn't be sitting here making those decisions."

And when you speak up, they're like, "Why are you aggressive?" When you speak up, they're like, "Oh, you don't understand." When you speak up, they're like, "Oh, that's not what we're saying. It's okay." And it's not like you fix it once or you find your voice one time and that's it. No, you have to do it every single time. And it doesn't matter whether you are leaders. I think that women, we have to always fight to be heard.

But the biggest challenge is within us, do we have what it takes to find our own voice? And from my experience and my culture, being from Senegal, from Africa, there's a heavy burden and expectations on women to be good wives and good mothers and good housewives and everything. So a little ambition, professional ambition and some wanting to have professional development for yourself because that's what you want. It's not always easy and you have to choose. It's not a balance. You choose. You either that or you that. And I think challenge and culture as far as women, it's very complicated. It's not one or the other.

Daniel:

Yeah, of course. I can add to what you're saying, I 100% agree. And I will even say that the very term empowerment is not bad per se, but sometimes it brings or it makes this perspective where you are giving power to someone, and I don't think it's accurate.

Probably what's more accurate is that people have power for themselves or who they are because they're valuable as individuals. And what you want to do, what you want to do is inspire them to find that inner voice. And probably the way we work with them is we want to amplify voices. So we use that term in the team more instead of empowerment, we want to amplify voices. So if you have a voice, we want to be the microphone or probably a platform you can stand up and you can speak up because you deserve to be heard.

Justine:

You're going from a point where they already have a voice. You're not saying, oh, let's give you back your voice. Let's empower you.

Daniel:

That's what I just need. That's right.

Justine:

We're telling you that you already have a voice. It's a matter of speaking up. So we all have it. I love that.

Daniel:

And just think we will love to think that Doulos is precisely the microphone they can use so their voice can be heard louder. And probably the platform they can stand upon and they know the platform is going to be there for them. And believe me, it's been 15 years of discovery. It's something that we have learned with the people we also work with. So it's something that when we started, we probably had this romantic idea of what development was. But as you grow older and wiser, as they say, you learn what's truly important and you find, oh, this is what actually people need. So okay, let's do that. So let's try and do that. Yeah.

Justine:

Absolutely. I want to turn it to Lexi or Lydia, because we are talking about in the development world, but also some positions specifically. Have you felt like that where you found yourself in a position where you had to think about your voice and make sure that you are speaking up and you're being heard? Because I feel like it happens everywhere. It's not about age, it's not about experience. It's first of all, about being girls or a woman and the culture affects it somehow. Our world is not ready for it.

Daniel:

Yes. One of the things where I have to, probably in my own experience, but where I have to speak up is probably with some donors. And sometimes, I don't know how this is going to sound like, but we actually have to turn down donors. They have resources and we know we can make an impact, but the way they want to do it is simply not right. They see us as means to their end to achieve their goals, probably what they want to show. And we have to say to them, "You know what? Probably we're not the right partner for you." Because you don't want to be partners with us. You only see us as probably the feeders and you have an agenda you want to demonstrate and you have some indicators and key performance indicators you want to demonstrate. And we are simply here to probably, how do you call it? Dance to your tune. I don't know if that's the thing. In Columbia it is sorry.

So pretty much sometimes the place you have to speak up is, okay, you speak about partnership and all that, but I'm one of the ones who actually, okay, I want to test that. I want to see if you really hear, if you're really listening. So that's why for me to find the right partners is it's a relief because when people understand why you want to do things this way or not the others, they're truly partners. Well, I don't mean to say this because you guys are here, but I feel WaterStep in particular being those type of partners who actually listen. So we're here for the long haul. We actually listen and to hear people like Zach and Claudia, like Daniel, what do you think we should do? And it sounds as easy and you take it for granted, but it's not common, at least not in the way development and partners have developed over the years in Columbia.

I know friends who work for NGOs and they say, "What we're going to do is so stupid, but we have to do it anyway because if we don't, we lose funding." And in Doulos, we decided to go the other route, even though it has cost us over the years. But as you were saying, how do you speak up? You need to speak up.

Because if not, we will keep it the same way. Someone has to take the hit or someone has to sometimes take those challenges head-on. So yeah, it's the way we see it.

Justine:

Anybody?

Lexi:

Well, thank you so much for being on today. I feel like we have learned so much about not finding your voice, but learning how to amplify it. And it's all about that partnership. And organizations like yours it's the right people that you can walk along with to be able to amplify your voice, find that person that's going to be the first person to stand up, say something so that change can start. So again, thank you so, so much for being on here today. We really, really appreciate you.

Lydia:

I loved what you said about, remember you already have a voice, and that is how we've ended every episode, because I've had to say it, is that you already carry more power than you think and you already have this ability. So I think you really, really just tie that all in there beautifully. And we didn't tell him to say that. You really just organically -

Daniel:

I did not. I didn't find that email, that's for sure.

Justine:

I have a question for you. What is Doulos? What does it mean? Just to confirm, I have my suspicion.

Daniel:

Oh, purely. Yeah. So doulos is a Greek term for what you will call "servant." So it has many connotations. So Greek is pretty much like Spanish or other languages where it has, I don't know, feminine and masculine terms for words, like French probably. So doulos means the one who serve others or the ones who are slave and tends to others. But it also means from a feminine perspective, doula. So the doula word is the women who help other women to give birth. And probably the term will be midwife. So we see as Doulos is an initiative or a collective as the one who is there for others to empower, well, to serve to help others. But also we see ourselves as the one who help others give birth to their dreams. So again, you find many leaders that they have so many dreams for their communities. They have ambition that things can be different. They dream that their community, it's way different to what they grew up with. And when we hear them express, as you were saying, that voice and we say, yeah, we want to be here for you. We're going to give birth, so to speak, to that dream, that amazing dream that you have. That's what we're here for. That's what we're trying.

Justine:

I love it because you brought it back to the femininity, giving birth. So thank you girls. Women from the world, let's go out and be doulas.

Daniel:

Yes.

Justine:

Yeah. Yeah, thank you. Echoing my friends here. It was really amazing and all the best for the rest of your journey there. And good luck for everything. Thank you, Daniel. It was amazing.

Daniel:

Thank you guys for everything. It was an amazing conversation, Lexi, Lydia, and Justine.

Lydia:

Thanks for being here with us on the By Her Hands podcast. We hope you feel the courage to say what you mean and stand by it; to use your voice. Remember, you carry more power than you think.

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You've been listening to the By Her Hands podcast brought to you by WaterStep. Around the world, girls carry so much responsibility, hope, and the work of caring for their families. WaterStep equips them with tools and training that help them protect their own health, support their schools, and lead change in their communities. When girls have the tools they need, their power isn't something they search for, it is something they carry. And if you want to learn more about using your own voice in service of others, visit WaterStep.org.

Disclaimer:

Listeners are reminded that the ideas, opinions, and information expressed on the By Her Hands podcast belong solely to the guests and do not necessarily reflect the views, policies, or positions of WaterStep, its staff, partners, donors, or affiliates. This podcast is provided for informational and educational purposes only, and is not intended as professional advice of any kind. WaterStep assumes no responsibility for actions taken based on the information provided.

For more Information about WaterStep and Its Mission

Website: www.WaterStep.org

To Learn more about Daniel's Organization

Website: www.fundaciondoulos.org

If this episode inspired you, please Like, Subscribe, and Share to help more young women discover the confidence to become positive influences in their own communities.

#PowerOfVoice #WomenLeadership #CommunityImpact

Episode 10: In this episode of the By Her Hands podcast, Yara shares her personal journey of learning to embrace her Mexican heritage after years of feeling pressure to fit in. Together, Lydia, Lexi, Justine, and Yara explore how culture, family, school, and friendships shape identity and confidence. The conversation examines the challenges of balancing multiple cultures, overcoming insecurity, and finding communities where people feel accepted for who they truly are. The group encourages listeners to celebrate what makes them unique while respecting others' experiences. Authenticity is a lifelong journey built on self-acceptance, courage, and meaningful relationships.

Thanks for being here with us on the By Her Hands podcast. We hope you've enjoyed the conversation and take some time to think about what makes you authentic. Remember that you already belong and that you carry more power than you think.

You've been listening to the By Her Hands podcast brought to you by WaterStep. Around the world, girls carry so much responsibility, hope, and the work of caring for their families. WaterStep equips them with tools and training that help them protect their own health, support their schools, and lead change in their communities. When girls have the tools they need, their power isn't something they search for, it is something they carry. And if you want to help women and girls around the world be authentically themselves, visit WaterStep.org.

Disclaimer:

Listeners are reminded that the ideas, opinions, and information expressed on the By Her Hands podcast belong solely to the guests and do not necessarily reflect the views, policies, or positions of WaterStep, its staff, partners, donors, or affiliates. This podcast is provided for informational and educational purposes only, and is not intended as professional advice of any kind. WaterStep assumes no responsibility for actions taken based on the information provided.

For more Information about WaterStep and It's Mission

Website: www.WaterStep.org

If this episode inspired you, please Like, Subscribe, and Share to help more young women discover the confidence to become positive influences in their own communities.

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Episode 9: In this episode of the By Her Hands podcast, Lexi, Lydia, Justine, and special guest Reem, explore how Influence shapes the lives, beliefs, and opportunities of young women around the world. Reem shares her inspiring journey as a feminist activist from northern Lebanon, describing how a high school sexual harassment incident led her to launch an anonymous podcast that empowered girls to share their stories safely. The discussion examines how language, trust, courage, and community engagement can create meaningful social change, even in cultures where difficult conversations are often discouraged. Reem reflects on building Brightful, a nonprofit organization dedicated to empowering women through education, leadership, and advocacy. The group also discusses the importance of choosing positive influences, maintaining resilience through setbacks, and caring for one's mental health while leading others. They also agree that authentic leadership begins with listening, compassion, and a willingness to challenge harmful norms. The episode concludes by encouraging young women to believe in themselves, embrace their voices, and recognize the lasting impact they can have on their communities.

Episode Transcript

There are things you believe that didn't start with you. When you hear them enough from your friends on social media, or even that phrase your mom has said your whole life, you don't question it. Then at some point you start to ask yourself, did I actually come to this on my own? What do I really believe? Think about the last time you changed your mind about something. Why? Did someone or something shape your decision? Or did you come up with it on your own? Today, we're talking about Influence and how it shows up in the lives of young women, how the people around you, the conversations you're part of, what you see every day, all of it plays a role in shaping how you think. But also, how recognizing it that changes things, because once you see it, you can question it, push back on it and decide what's actually yours.

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You are listening to the By Her Hands Podcast, a space where young women figure things out together, who we are, what we want, and the power we already carry. It's brought to you by WaterStep a global leader in safe water innovation. Learn more about how women and girls are shaping healthier futures, each by her own hands at WaterStep.org.

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Lexi:

Hi, it's Lexi and welcome back to the By Her Hands podcast.

Lydia:

Hey, it's Lydia. It's good to be here.

Justine:

Hi, Justine here. Nice to be with everyone.

Lexi:

I want to welcome our special guest today, Reem from Lebanon. And today we're talking about influence.

Reem:

Hello. Thank you so much for having me. My name is Reem. I'm 23 years old. I'm from North Lebanon. I'm a feminist activist and most of my work focuses on women's empowerment and combating gender-based violence and promoting sexual and reproductive health and rights. I founded an organization called Brightful, in North Lebanon. It's basically an intersectional collective group that works to empower youth and women in disadvantage areas. We use non-formal education program to equip women with skills and also to let them lead the initiative in their small communities. So basically all my work is around activism and also empowering women.

Lexi:

Wow. So what made you want to start that?

Reem:

Yeah, so basically it started back in high school. There was a sexual harassment incident that happened in my high school back in 2019, and suddenly a young girl from the high school posted on Facebook about the sexual harassment incident and the post went viral. So many NGOs and many activists started advocating and to supporting girls to speak up about this incident. And also they start to make complaints and even legal complaints and pressuring the high school administration to remove the teacher. But at the same time, the parents and the community started questioning this incident and to stop this, you're exaggerating. There's no sexual harassment. It's because of you. Yeah. So I felt very involved. I was very passionate about advocating for this incident.

So I started an anonymous podcast. I invited the girls to share their experience and talk without sharing their names. I even changed the voice and girls start to talk and to speak up about their experience. Also, we started to share these voice messages via WhatsApp. So parents started to heard these stories and they started to be convinced that it's not a personal issue, it's a collective incident, and a lot of girls were involved in this incident. So after that podcast, I went online on my Instagram page and I started to do campaigns, even live streaming about sexual harassment. And I started to do campaigns about "the personal is political" and our issue as girls are not only personal issues, but these issues are political and we have to take our rights and we have to speak up no matter what people and what communities it is like say, yeah. So everything started back in high school.

Justine:

So Reem, quick question and wow. Wow. Just wow Reem. You're talking and I'm thinking about the courage that it took you because I understand the uproar from the non-for-profit, non-community, the organizational, the right-base organizations, that's what they do. But you were in your hometown, you were in your own school, right, with your own community. And I was wondering how, because the families were reacting in a way that they protect themselves. And I can understand that as far as cultural pushback where you don't want to have the truth out there or the dirty laundry of the community out there. How did you manage that? How did you navigate that, the need for you to speak up and to change things with the pushback from your community and your family? And how was it in your own family? How did you manage that? Because we heard about where you are right now and what you did, but as women and as, I can't help but think about that, your own journey to that.

Reem:

Yeah, yeah, actually it was very hard because I was raised in a very rural village in North Lebanon. It's a village near the border with Syria, it's called Akkar. And even in Akkar, girls are not allowed to pursue education, to travel, to have their own lives. And even the basic rights are not allowed. So I used to be very strong and I used to, I know people language, I know how to navigate things with my communities. I use very flexible language. And back then I was very sure that I knew that I will pursue something related to activism. So yeah, I had to be strong. And I did a lot of debate with my parents, with my brothers. You are not allowed to do that. You will be in risk. You are risking girls' lives because some families are very conservative.

So when it come to sexual harassment, it's a taboo for them. So if they knew that their girls is speaking about something related to sexuality and harassment, so they might attack her.

So I heard a lot of these sentences, and even if you heard about the revolution as a feminist revolution, we had a very backlash year in North Lebanon on feminist activists. So I used to confront people, but I always use very flexible language and I don't directly talk about sexual stuff. I started with human rights. What about what if we have a conversation? What if we listen to each other opinions, especially when I discuss such things with parents. I found that most of the time the problem is that parents don't give girls the opportunity to talk. They don't listen actively to them. So yeah, I started to convince them in a very flexible language. And the first topics is about basic rights. We are not asking for anything that is luxurious. We're asking for our privacy to have control on our bodies, to take our own decision to even choose what major I want to follow. Because even some parents take control of girls' decision when it's come to education, like you should follow this field, you should choose this career. So yeah, it's not a single problem.

There are a lot of root causes and intersectionality. The intersectionality is a good approach because when you saw this as a lot of conditions that impact our life as girls, like from the systems, the traditions, the norms, the religious, you can propose good approaches to convince such communities.

Justine:

I'm just in awe. And the fact that you, you're talking to things that are so deeply rooted in the community, and I think it's around the world. We always have seen in many communities where girls are not equally treated or they don't have the same access. I am just so interested about the whole process of influencing them. And something that you really said was resonating with me, it's around the language. How do you approach people in order to get them to listen to you? And I feel like that's the first step in influencing. And I'm wondering Lydia or Lexi, do you guys have any experience with that where you realize that the best path to influencing or to having the other one listen to you as Reem shared it's really about the language that we use, where you have to balance out between your firm convictions, but also with your audience?

Lydia:

Absolutely. I think if you're trying to get anybody to help you out and support your cause, if you talk in words, I don't know, because every single person is different. And you have to know your audience and you have to know what they're going to listen to, what they think is important, and you have to make your cause important to them.

So for me, whenever I've put together a few different charity events and anytime I'm trying to ask for money and for sponsors is difficult and it's scary, but knowing each person and being like, well, some people want to know why it's important to you. Some people want to know how this came about, what their money's going to. Some people just want to throw a check at you, some want a bunch of paperwork. So in that way I've experienced it. Obviously I haven't created a nonprofit, did all of these incredible things, but just in fundraising I kind of get that.

Lexi:

Absolutely. I think what you said, Lydia, it's all about your audience. You have to learn how to approach the people that you're trying to target. And I think for me, I see this a lot, especially what you're saying Reem about how the community just sort of didn't want to listen. And even the parents, it sort of stemmed from that. And I'm sure it obviously made the girls feel very uncomfortable to be having these conversations in the first place. And I felt like I saw this on a really big scale. I went to the UN Women's Conference this past year, and gender-based violence was one of the most prevalent topics. And I think something that was so huge about it was that people feel like they can't speak on it. And even if they do, they feel like they're not believed.

So I'm sort of wondering how do you build that trust between the girls to be able to shift that dynamic with their parents and be able to talk to you about it or you even approaching the parents and then the parents being able to shift their perspective on how the rest of the community views it.

Reem:

So basically I was part of a network. It's the Access Program Network. It's a network for high school students. And as part of this network, we were doing a lot of community service projects. So we were already friends and we trusted each other. So when my friend posted on Facebook about the sexual harassment, I said, why we don't speak up online and we'll have a lot of people who want to support our initiative and support us?

So we started from a close friendship and we took this friendship to do an initiative. And now even, we're still very close and we're still managing projects and initiative from time to time. So it started, we were very close, so they trusted me and we were involved in community service. So we believe in impact and we believed that our voices might be heard when we were live streaming online. Yeah. But I think it might be harder if we weren't close because I should convince them and protect them and ensure that I'm not risking their lives.

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Before we continue with our episode, let me take a minute to remind you that by her hands is a global program empowering women and girls through safe water access menstrual health management and economic opportunity. The program and this podcast are brought to you by WaterStep. Together, we believe that when a young woman can protect her own health, she leads. When she leads her family thrives, and when her family thrives, her whole community grows stronger. Learn more about how women and girls are shaping healthier futures each by her own hands at WaterStep.org.

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Justine:

You keep saying, "we believe, we believe." Where did that belief come from? Where did it come from Reem, because I understand the culture, the restrictions, but it seems that you were born like that, right? You were like, okay, I'm a believer, I'm strong. Where did it come from? And when we talk about influence, all these steps that you took with your friends, what was the biggest impact? What kept you going?

Reem:

Yeah, actually, as you said, I'm very passionate about women's rights and everything related to real change. Not only making noise. And I participated in this conference and I did that, I did that. I want real change. And even in my adulthood, like 80, eighties and nineties, I used to read books. If you don't know, Nawal Saadawi, she's a feminist activist, Arabic feminist activist. And she will,

Justine:

I don't. I'm going to write her name down.

Reem:

Sure. Yeah, yeah. Nawal is very known about her approach. She even invented a lot of feminist approaches. And so I was really influenced by her opinions and how she envisioned as a feminist movement and even how she decolonized feminist values and everything related to, she even transformed the MENA region, to the SWANA region because she was very interested in not only advocating for women's rights, but making a change on a policy level and on very high level.

Justine:

Quick vocabulary thing, So MENA, I know it's Middle East and North Africa region. So it went from MENA region to what region?

Reem:

South Africa and North Africa. Yeah, she added South Africa.

Justine:

Nice.

Reem:

Because we have Algeria, we have Tunisia. And so I was very influenced by her and by her thoughts. And also I wanted to make, as I said, a real change. So I saw that real change started from us as young people and youth, and as used and I used my resources. As I said, I was involved in many networks and I had a lot of resources and funding and also experts and people who are ready to support me. So I started this initiative and now as I told you, my initiative became a nonprofit, a legally registered nonprofit organization. And we are running four programs annually, each year. And even earlier this year we received a huge funding to open a space, a safe space for women. It's a fourth space in Akkar. As I said, Akkar is a very rural area and we don't have a space that are designated for women. So we renovated the space and now we are ready to launch new programs in this space.

So basically the space will provide women with access to arts courses, also free laptops, internet and everything related to capacity building. So yeah, we started as a small initiative, but now we are local organization that is running the program and doing a lot of huge work. We're still youths like me and my co-founders, but we have a lot of plan and we have a lot of ambition.

Justine:

Wow. Wow. Yeah, I feel like to me you made two points, right? You are influencing, but your hunger for influence also stems from the fact that you were influence yourself. How do we feel about that ladies? Who has influenced you so far? Because really we have Lydia and Lexi and they are leaders in terms of community service and service work. And I'm curious, Lydia, who influenced you to get you where you are today?

Lydia:

Honestly, probably my dad because he has just been such, if we're talking community service and all that, ever since I was little, he is been like it's the greatest thing you can do is give back to your community and making impact there. So he's always been a really big influence on me too. I don't know, to serve the people around me and to do it in my own way, not just volunteer at the soup kitchen because that's the normal go-to, to kind of branch out and meet different people. And yeah, he's been a huge influence for that. What do you think Lexi?

Lexi:

I think for me it's been Mark, I feel like I sort of learned about WaterStep in fifth grade and ever since he's sort of invited me part of the family and always encouraged me that's like, you are making it a friends, you have value in this. And so I think it just pulls it back to the idea that who you surround yourself with is how you can build that influence even larger. And so I think for Reem, for you, obviously once you talk to your family, did you get their support and then that's how you're able to build it? Or was it just that core group of girls and then you sort of took it from there? And then also I'm sort of wondering, when you created this anonymous podcast, did you think it would grow and have the influence that it did or what did you think? What did you expect it to be?

Reem:

Yeah, of course. At the beginning I didn't expect it that influence, but after we started the campaigns online and we started to share anonymous codes from the girls, the post went viral and a lot of NGOs started to text to request interviews from me. I even went to a conference in Indiana, in United States, and I shared my experience and how I started the campaign online. So at the beginning I didn't expect, but through that journey I was very passionate and I wanted to speak up whether I will have supporters or no. So I wanted to do that and I was very, as I said, I was very active to do it, whatever that is as a result is. Yeah.

Lexi:

So what I'm sort of hearing is I feel like you have influenced so many other people, but I'm sort of wondering, is there one person in your life that had a lot of influence on you and sort empowered you to create this and keep going? Or was it really just your activism inside and you just felt like this was the right thing to do?

Reem:

Yeah, of course. My mom supported me a lot. It wouldn't be that easy without her support because I have to travel and to participate in many trainings, conferences, like scholarships. So I wanted her support and she was there. But also I confronted a lot of challenges from my father, but I was able to convince him and most of the times I did what I saw, it's the right, without taking his approval, his final approval. But with that time, he started to trust me and now he changed her way he treat my sister and very different way because he was convinced, but by my choices. So yeah, it was like mix of challenges, but also there was my mom who supported me.

Justine:

Wow.

Reem:

And I just wanted to correct. The SWANA region is Southwest Asia and North Africa. So basically it's like she transformed Middle East, we're middle to who? It's just a decolonial way.

Justine:

I love that. [Inaudible] will love that too because I know they're big and decolonization and also the work that you do with them in [inaudible] program is amazing. But I wanted to come back to something you just mentioned. I was going to ask you because this is huge, right? You are doing amazing work. The fact that you are doing it with people around you in your inner circle, but also reaching out to around the world, I would say.

I cannot help but think that when just that being hard, that might have made you uncomfortable at some point. What are things up to now that are still hard to pass or to face, and when do you feel uncomfortable in terms of the work that you're doing, the way you think, your ambition, your visions, your passion? What are things that are still uncomfortable for you in that space?

Reem:

Yeah, maybe talking and working with people who don't have the values that I have. I even faced a big challenge last month. I was working on a huge product and I booked a venue, a venue for the training. And one day before the training, a person who owned the venue contacted me and say, you are not allowed to conduct this training because the training is on gender-based violence and you'll talk about issues that are not allowed to discuss here in North Lebanon. So it's very uncomfortable because I don't have the time to explain and to give explanation and to convince this person. But instead, I sent him a very long messages explaining the training and that we're not bringing content from outside and we're not changing family standards and such stuff. We are speaking about around our rights and our health.

And I said to him, thank you. I don't want to conduct the training and I was able to secure another venue, but you feel that you did a good impact in your community and suddenly a small thing still remind you that there are a lot of people until now into 2026, think that gender-based violence is a personal issues and shouldn't be talk in public.

So yeah, there are a lot of challenges specifically that we are working in nonprofit sector and we have to deal with a lot of partners. And also there's one thing that always make me uncomfortable when donor ask standard or typical request, try to focus on numbers, try to take pictures, please let the girls talk about something private. So yeah, this is a very typical donor request. They want to make the work documented from their own perspective. But for us as a feminist group, we don't care about numbers. We only care about quality of our work.

Justine:

Absolutely. And this is also influencing is also having the trust of others. So if you're not standing up for them, it'll affect it. I'm wondering, I'm listening to you, I'm thinking about everything you do and I'm just like, wow. So this is a every day. Once you get on that you cannot stop doing what you're doing because that's who you are, that's how you perceive. So how do you manage that? It could be a pressure or not. How do you manage being that influencer and having so many people looking up to you? Right.

Reem:

I always tried to have my own time and to do a healing circle. Like last year I participated in a healing circle and in a retreat in India and I was disconnected from social media for two weeks. No social media, no cell phones. So I try to remind myself to take care about my mental health, my own health, and also to take care of people around me. Collective care is a feminist value for me. And also as I usually see, social media is a good tool to advocate for your cause, but it's sometimes it might hard to because you started to receive personal questions and you started to see a typical beauty standard and lifestyle and you have to compare yourself and to take sometimes stereotypes. So I always remind myself that social media show very little part about people's lives and reality is very different. And I try to be just inspired by people work not by lifestyle and beauty standards. So yeah.

Lexi:

Something I'm also sort of wondering about what you said earlier was about do you feel like the pushback from your community sometimes, do you feel like that influences the work you do or do you feel differently? I don't know, how does that impact the way you feel or does it make you feel pressured or change the way you do things sometimes?

Reem:

I think it's a long journey and it has a lot of apps and downs. So I'm good with such challenges and I know that even high organizations and organizations that are on field from 10 years and 20 years still faced a lot of challenges and a lot of attacks from communities. So I'm very flexible and I know it's a long journey and even after 10 years, if I did like 10% impact on women lives, I'm very happy with this 10%. So yeah, it's a long journey and yeah, there is not only ups, there are lots of downs.

Justine:

It's worth it. It's all worth it. It's all worth it. And Reem, you've shared such a powerful story that I think I'm still just wanting to keep listening to you and learning more because you are so central to what the By Her Hands podcast is about. Just the initiative, just the program. It's really equipping all the women to be powerful on their own, in whichever ways they want. So in your case, it really started with the sexual gender-based violence, which is, I think it's just around the globe.

We can learn so much more from your experience and see how to empower other girls and women who are leaving the same thing. So we really want to be able to connect with your organization. I think this is just the beginning of a long relationship, hopefully. But as we wrap up, what do you want to tell to all the girls and women who are listening to us as far as how to stand your ground and be an influencer? What would be your key points for them and message?

Reem:

Yeah, I will say believe in yourself no matter what people think about you and listen to your own voices, to your own voice and stay strong because we as girls, we'll face a lot of challenges, violence, a lot of structural violence. So yes.

Justine:

Yeah, thank you. Lexi, would you say that this is also applicable everywhere, right? As women, I think that this resonates a lot with us.

Lexi:

Absolutely. I think it's exactly what you said. It can start really small, but you never know the influence that you're going to have on other people. And just coming back to the desire for real change, obviously have the conversations create that shared space, but what's those next steps? And so I think that's what it's perfect that your organization is doing is it's creating those next steps. So what's the name of your organization again, just so we can share it with everybody?

Reem:

It's called Brightful and you can find us on Instagram, Brightful-lb, and also on our website brightful-lb.org.

Lexi:

Well, thank you so much for sharing everything with us today. This was incredible and I'm sure so many girls are out there listening, feeling very, very empowered. So we just want to say thank you.

Reem:

Thank you so much for having me. It was really nice talking to you.

Thanks for being here with us on the By Her Hands podcast. We encourage you to be intentional about what you take in and what you make your own. You can always be a positive influence in the world. Remember, you carry more power than you think.

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You've been listening to the By Her Hands podcast brought to you by WaterStep. Around the world, girls carry so much responsibility, hope, and the work of caring for their families. WaterStep equips them with tools and training that help them protect their own health, support their schools, and lead change in their communities. When girls have the tools they need, their power isn't something they search for, it is something they carry. And if you want, have a positive influence on young women and girls around the world visit, visit WaterStep.org.

Disclaimer:

Listeners are reminded that the ideas, opinions, and information expressed on the By Her Hands podcast belong solely to the guests and do not necessarily reflect the views, policies, or positions of WaterStep, its staff, partners, donors, or affiliates. This podcast is provided for informational and educational purposes only, and is not intended as professional advice of any kind. WaterStep assumes no responsibility for actions taken based on the information provided.

For more information about WaterStep

Website: www.WaterStep.org

Episode 8: In this episode of the By Her Hands podcast, Lydia, Lexi, Kristina, and special guest Tori Murden McClure explore the challenges of comparison, self-worth, competition, and personal growth. Tori shares lessons from her remarkable adventures and leadership experiences. She shares perspectives about how comparison can become harmful when people measure their inner struggles against others' outward successes. The group examines the impact of social media, societal expectations, sibling comparisons, and the pressure many young women feel to fit in. They also discuss the importance of authenticity, healthy relationships, compassion, and self-acceptance. Tori encourages listeners to choose friends who inspire growth, embrace their unique strengths, and resist the urge to define themselves through constant comparison. The discussion also highlights the difference between healthy competition and destructive comparison, emphasizing that character and kindness matter more than status or achievement. They conclude the conversation with a powerful reminder that everyone is fighting battles we cannot see and that true confidence comes from being unapologetically yourself.

Episode Transcript

Lydia:

How often do you hear that little voice in your head? Am I good enough? You see somebody and it starts. She has the internship I wanted. She got into the college I was hoping for. She walks into a room and doesn't think twice before she speaks. I wish I look like her. And then suddenly you feel like you're not good enough. That's what we're talking about today, the cost of comparison. What happens when you're focusing on someone else's life and not your own? What do you miss? And how can young women build each other up? Instead of comparing who we are to each other.

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You are listening to the By Her Hands Podcast, a space where young women figure things out together, who we are, what we want, and the power we already carry. It's brought to you by WaterStep a global leader in safe water innovation. Learn more about how women and girls are shaping healthier futures, each by her own hands at WaterStep.org.

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Lydia:

Hello and welcome back to The By Her Hands podcast. This is Lydia.

Lexi:

And this is Lexi. It's great to be here.

Lydia:

And Justine is not here today. She's being a French translator is what I've heard. But we do have someone else in here, Kristina, another lady from WaterStep who has guided our teen board and led this project along with Justine. And we are so happy for you to be here.

Kristina:

Great. Super excited to be here.

Lydia:

Alright. And we of course also have our special guest. Kristina, you're special, but you're not that special. No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding.

Kristina:

Not as special as our other guest.

Lydia:

So, we have Mrs. Tori Murden McClure. She is the former President of Spalding University in Louisville, Kentucky. She is best known as the first woman and first American to row solo across the Atlantic Ocean. She rode a 23 foot boat alone and without physical support, a distance of more than 3,300 miles. Tori was also one of 2 women and 6 Americans who were the first women and first Americans to travel over land to the geographic South Pole, skiing 750 miles from the ice shelf to the pole. An avid mountaineer has climbed on several continents, and she was the first woman to climb Lewis Nunatak Summit in Antarctica. Welcome.

Tori Murden McClure:

Thank you.

Lydia:

So that is a long list of achievements there. Which one's your favorite?

Tori Murden McClure:

Oh, I think my favorites are not on the list.

Lydia:

Oh, okay. What's your favorite achievement?

Tori Murden McClure:

It's not so much an achievement as I am, well, my most recent achievement is I became a wilderness medicine instructor for the National Outdoor Leadership School.

Lydia:

Oh, wow.

Tori Murden McClure:

So I can teach wilderness medicine, EMTs, wilderness first responders, wilderness first aid.

Lydia:

That is incredible. So you've done all these incredible things. What were you like when you were our age? Mine and Lexi's.

Tori Murden McClure:

I was extremely nerdy. I had a crush on John Quincy Adams. That's how nerdy I was. Everyone else was in love with television personalities and what would be influencers now. And I was in love with historical figures.

Lydia:

I mean John Quincy, that's not a bad pick I don't think.

Tori Murden McClure:

No, I mean he was in service to the citizens of the United States from the age of 13.

Lydia:

Oh wow.

Tori Murden McClure:

And he died on the floor of the House of Representatives, had a stroke and went over.

Lydia:

He did. He did what he loved. Pretty dramatic.

Tori Murden McClure:

Yeah, it's pretty dramatic.

Kristina:

Yeah.

Tori Murden McClure:

Yeah. He was allegedly very cold and stiff. But I too can be cold and stiff, if I'm uncomfortable.

Lydia:

We can be cold and stiff together.

Tori Murden McClure:

Yes. Not cold and stiff, like dead, like Antarctica, dead. Not that kind of cold and stiff.

Lydia:

But you would know about Antarctica dead.

So what all have you done in Antarctica? Because when I'm reading this list and preparing of how I'm going to say all of this without messing up, you have all these adventures in Antarctica and that is incredible. What all have you done there? That's one of my favorite things is just…

Tori Murden McClure:

Antarctica is a magical place. And you come to understand why folks who live in snowy environments have so many different names for snow. It's not all the same. The Inuit have, I don't know how many multiple names, like 20 or 30 names for different kinds of snow.

Lydia:

Oh wow.

Tori Murden McClure:

Because that's the environment they live in. And so that sort of crusty snow that gets all wet is called one thing. And the real fluffy powdery stuff is called something else. And you get a sense of why they have different names. We skied 750 miles, over the continent. Crossed a side of the continent that had not been traversed before. So we were literally putting a foot down where no one had walked, at least not in the last a hundred million years. And it was pretty special.

Lydia:

It's pretty cool. Pretty cool. It is absolutely an honor to have you here today, by the way. It is so lovely to meet you and just to be able to sit in the presence of such an incredible woman.

Tori Murden McClure:

Well, I think we have five incredible women here.

Lydia:

Well, we appreciate that. How did you begin these adventures? How does one just decide, Yeah, I think I'm going to row across the Atlantic Ocean next week?

Tori Murden McClure:

I think you take one reasonable step and then another reasonable step, and then somewhere along the line you pass the boundaries of reason and don't realize it. I think I read a statistic once that 98% of young people grow up in a dysfunctional household, which means most of us, if not all of us. And I had a pretty hard way growing up, but my life since then has been magical. And so I think I began to see the woods as safe and civilization as dangerous because I grew up with a brother who's intellectually disabled and he was bullied and I was bullied, because I was his chief protector. And so the sense of people are dangerous, trees are safe, was kind of how I came to want to be outside. And then as I grew older and started to take on challenges in civilization, the wilderness was a place to heal.

And so I would take a burnout job working with unhoused people, and then I'd go climb a mountain to feel better about the world. And so it became this balance. I'd balanced the back country adventure with the urban adventure or weren't precisely a balance, the urban adventure with a back country adventure, back country adventure was the place where I went to sort of make sense of things and heal back up and then come back to continue fighting the good fight.

Lydia:

That is beautiful. Have you ever felt like you needed to do more in the urban things? Have you ever?

Tori Murden McClure:

Always, I'm teaching emergency medical technicians these days and I was asked to give an awards banquet speech, and as I was working on the speech, I was saying to my husband, I'm not doing enough to give back. I'm just not doing enough to give back. And at the awards banquet, two young men I had helped to teach, become EMTs, one medals of valor for their response to the UPS plane crash that was here.

Lydia:

Oh, that's incredible.

Tori Murden McClure:

And you'd have thought I was related to them. I was so proud. But that sense of feeling like there's always more we can do, if we really let ourselves see the pain of the world, it calls us to try to do more.

Lexi:

Yeah. Do you still feel like you compare yourself to others in things?

Tori Murden McClure:

Yeah, I was thinking about that and getting ready for this. And of course I think we're just naturally wired to understand hierarchy. And you can set up a hierarchy in any kind of framework. You say, okay, line yourself up by height, line yourself up by X. Line yourself up by power. And people will naturally put themselves where they think they are. And women usually give themselves a harder time than men do when it comes to rating their own intelligence or rating their own ability or even rating their own sense of power. And I think we could do a lot to improve our sense of self. But I think the challenge for us is we're always comparing our insides, which are very messy to other people's outsides, which used to just be polished and have some makeup, but now they're AI-enhanced. There's no way we're ever going to measure up.

Lexi:

So one thing I'm wondering is obviously all your accomplishments are so amazing in every single thing. It's like you were the first woman to do all of these things. So do you ever feel like people sort of pinpoint that as, oh, she's a woman versus a man making these accomplishments? And how do you internalize that and how do you deal with that?

Tori Murden McClure:

I don't usually, that doesn't usually register for me too much, unless there are certain guys who say it a certain way and it's intentionally demeaning, then I'll get my backup. People will always say, first woman to roll across the ocean. They won't say first American. They'll always say First woman to ski to the South Pole. I won't say first American. Now, I wasn't alone at South Pole, but you all touched the pole at the same time. So we'd each claimed to have been the first. I got called out by a colleague who was on that expedition. I went to speak in his hometown and they listened to me as the First American and the first woman, he goes, what am I, chopped liver? And I was like, I used to be really good about saying there were this many Americans or this many women. And yeah, I'm not responsible for folk's editing.

Kristina:

Well, I'm curious about that when you are thinking about comparison, for you ladies too, do you feel like it's more internal or external? The reason that I ask that is that there is a story that I know you've told before about the newspaper and where they wanted to put you in the feature section even though you were clearly an athlete and belonged in the sports section. And so I'm curious about whether that external comparison is something that you think about when it comes to that. Is it really external or internal?

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Before we continue with our episode, let me take a minute to remind you that by her hands is a global program empowering women and girls through safe water access menstrual health management and economic opportunity. The program and this podcast are brought to you by WaterStep. Together, we believe that when a young woman can protect her own health, she leads. When she leads her family thrives, and when her family thrives, her whole community grows stronger. Learn more about how women and girls are shaping healthier futures each by her own hands at WaterStep.org.

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Tori Murden McClure:

Yeah, I mean, I think there are unhealthy things when we're comparing our internal selves to folks we interact with in the exterior world. Then there are pigeonholes that we get put in. And when I think of sort of sexism in the world, I feel like it's a pigeonhole. And typically I don't experience a lot of sexism because I'm six feet tall and I'm built like a guy. And I sometimes have trouble finding feminine clothing that fits me well. And so I look like a guy and guys will forget that I'm not a guy. And so I get away with saying things that smaller, more feminine women just can't get away with. Or I will be in, I remember the days when I'd be in a big meeting and some petite woman would say something perfectly reasonable and right on target and be completely ignored. I would repeat what she'd say and they would think, oh, that's brilliant. And I look across the table and go, sorry.

But yeah, when I was rowing across the Atlantic Ocean, the Courier Journal, which was still run by a very close friend of mine, one of my mentors, the guys wouldn't cover me in the sports section, they put me in the feature section next to the cooking and wardrobe advice. I was a woman and the women in the news office had to fight to get me covered at all. And then the day of my arrival, they got around the sports versus features by just putting me on the front page, which worked out okay.

Lydia:

I'd say that's a fair, fair trade right there.

Kristina:

I'm curious for you ladies, what are some times recently in your lives that you have compared yourselves to others? Who was it? What was that like the moment? What do you do about it? After hearing what Tori has talked about?

Lydia:

I mean, right now I'm comparing myself to Tori. I mean, I'm not much of an athlete and I'm thinking all these incredible things that you've done. And I mean, I used to play hockey and now I just kind of sit on my butt and I want to be like you and I want to go outside and go. I mean, I love kayaking. That's kind of, it's on water in a boat. So now you're making me want to kayak and to do more things like that.

Lexi:

I think for me, I think it's just social media and who you surround yourself by. Even my friends, I feel like sometimes we're almost in competition with each other of, oh, we're supposed to look a certain way and I'll talk the same way and all these beauty standards. And I think sometimes it gets really hard. And I think just taking a step back and just reminding myself to be my own person. Don't compare yourself to others. But I definitely think with social media and AI and all of these fake photos and just projecting your life on social media as this perfect life and you're only going to put up the best thing. Sometimes it's really, really hard to not compare yourself to that and be like, wow, look how much fun they're having. Or wow, look how beautiful this girl is. So I think a lot of that, Lydia, I'm sure you can relate to some of that.

Lydia:

I have never been more sad than when I was trying to fit in with everybody around me. I went from a private school to a new school, went from a class of 24 to 400, and it was really hard and I've talked about it on here before, but I just wanted to blend in and I didn't want any to draw any attention to myself, and I wanted people to like me. I felt like at my old school, I was too much. I was too loud, I was too smarty pants. I knew the answers to the questions and I needed to sit back and let someone else answer them.

And I just muted myself and I had all this pressure, you need to wear a new outfit every day. You cannot repeat outfits. You have to wear makeup and make sure do your hair every single night so it'll be ready for the morning. And you sit in your seat very nice and you don't say anything to make anybody upset. You don't say anything to make anybody else feel bad. And that was it. And eventually, of course, as you can probably tell, that didn't work. It didn't last very long.

I'm an energetic person when I am not exhausted, and I'm kind of loud a little bit and I like to joke around and I like to have fun in my class as well. So doing my things and eventually once I made some good friends, they kind of pulled me out of my shell a little bit and I started to have more and more of myself show through. But I remember just being so alone when I was trying to make myself something I wasn't. And it wasn't until I stopped caring and then it got bad and I started wearing pajamas to school and I didn't brush my hair. You have to find a balance. Even though I do miss wearing PJs to school.

Tori Murden McClure:

I think I often think about it as competition versus compassion. I think competition is good. I'm a competitive person. I like to win. I don't think that's the problem. It's what you do after you win or what you do after you lose and how that affects your relationships. And if I'm on the water and there's a guy in front of me, I want to catch him.

Lydia:

Absolutely.

Tori Murden McClure:

There's nothing wrong with my desire to want to catch him and grind him into dust. But if I'm in a competitive relationship with someone, it doesn't help me to figure out how we're the same. It only helps me to figure out how we're different so I can exploit those differences. If I'm in a compassionate relationship, it doesn't help me to figure out how we're different. It only helps me to figure out how we're the same so we can find common ground. And it's really how competition or compassion affects your relationships. And then I think there's nothing wrong with competition as long as you're not a jerk about it. When I worked with Muhammad Ali, I knew plenty of, well, I don't know plenty. I knew a few famous athletes who were like, I'm great, you stink. I'm fabulous. You are a peasant. Mohammad wouldn't like that. Muhammad's like, I'm the greatest in the world and if you're hanging out with me, you must be great too. And that's a very different way of interacting with the world. And I think it's totally fine to be very good at something and not be a jerk about it.

Lydia:

Right. And I remember when I was playing ice hockey, we were the first girls team where we were playing and it was really big deal. And there wasn't a girls league, so we were always playing the guys team. And we actually, their parents stopped. They talked to our coaches and they're like, we don't want our kids playing your girls anymore because they play too mean. Because I, when I would play hockey, I was always an aggressive player. It's why I played hockey because I kept getting fouls and flags and penalties and everything else I tried. In hockey, it's part of the game and I still have my stories. I got ejected, I got suspended, whatever. But it was more part of the game.

I remember walking out of the rink and they said, if you girls want to play hockey, you have to play tougher than that. And we came out and three of us fouled out, and I think I punched a kid from the boards and I wasn't even in the game. I was out on injury. It was just like that competition between we're girls trying to prove our spot here and then eventually getting pulled out of the league because we were too mean.

Tori Murden McClure:

Yeah, I played in a co-ed league when I was in divinity school, at Harvard.

Lydia:

Oh my gosh.

Tori Murden McClure:

And it was a league between the graduate schools. My divinity school league team got kicked out of the league for fighting.

Kristina:

In divinity school. Good job, Tori.

Lydia:

That's awesome.

Tori Murden McClure:

It was a co-ed league, but I was the only woman I ever saw on the court. And this one evening I went up for a rebound and dislocated my wrist and this string of expletives flew out of my mouth. And somebody on the other team says, Hey, watch your mouth, there's a lady on the court, somebody on my team says that was the lady.

Lexi:

Yeah.

Kristina:

What do you guys think about when parents compare you to your siblings? I'm curious if that is something that you guys experience and I don't know. Also since you were a president at university, I'm sure you've seen that too.

Lydia:

Well, they more, well they tell me that I need to drive better because brother's a better driver than I am. But I think my brother gets compared to me more than I get compared to him just because older and I've kind of set the precedent and I was top of my class and I mean, I do this and I do the service things, so I always compare my brother, you should be more like your sister. And my brother is incredibly talented musician. I have zero musical ability in me, but he has perfect pitch. He can just hear something and play it. He does bass guitar, he does piano is his primary instrument. He's learning the bassoon. He has harmonica is a saxophone, a trombone, trumpet. We have a drum set in our basement now, so loud. And then he mixes his own songs and he does all of it so well. They still, I mean, whenever he doesn't turn in an assignment and whenever his grades start dropping, they're like, they just go on him about how he needs to be more like me. And I mean, I wish I could do anything as talented as he can like that. We joke that especially when we were little, that I was the ringmaster and he was the circus, because I'm a control freak and he had all the talent. So I guess we just get compared in that kind of way.

Lexi:

Yeah, I feel like for me it's actually the same way my brothers more get compared to me, rather than I to them. Not that I'm the oldest, but more that I'm, well, I was the only girl for a long time. Now I have a baby sister, but I'm one girl now too out of five boys. So there's just, I have different goals than the boys. I'm sort of more passionate about school and service and things like that. And they're just here to have a good time. They're here to play their sports, they're here to do that type of thing. But I will say sometimes my mom will say, oh, you need to have more fun the boys. You need to lay back a little bit. You need to be a little bit less serious and be more like them. But I feel like definitely majority of the time it is the opposite of, look at your sister doing all these things, please go turn in your assignments, things like that.

Lydia:

I think it's more acceptable or it's more expected for women to do more things than guys. And every time I do a service project or I was on a board for a local organization, and even at WaterStep, the ratio of women to men who are involved is always a lot more women than guys. And in my school service club, and well, you go to an all-girls school, so you're very biased here. Everything you do is 100% women.

Lexi:

And I love it.

Lydia:

But at my school's service club, it was probably four girls for every one guy. And they only did it because their mom signed them up.

Tori Murden McClure:

I was in law school, there was a class called Law and the Oppressed and there were like 15 women and one guy. I said, if you called it law and power, the gender ratio would reverse.

Lydia:

Exactly.

Kristina:

Why do you think that is?

Tori Murden McClure:

I think women are brought up to think, oh, I'm not supposed to want to grasp for power. I'm supposed to be the caretaker and caregiver. And I think that keeps us in, I mean, 30 years ago, women could only be teachers or nurses. Their careers weren't open to them because women couldn't get into grad school. Just happened to not get accepted.

And I remember I was invited to speak at the 50th anniversary of women being allowed to go to the divinity school at Harvard. And I went and I followed a woman, I kid you not, she talked about the secularization of the breast, 1620 to 1910. Now my definition of a scholar is you can talk about breasts for 45 minutes and no one cracks a smile. And I went up to the podium and I had two speeches. I had one very heady, very thoughtful speech and a smart Alec speech. And after that secularization of the breast, I went for the smart Alec speech and I started, I said, okay, I was a good student here, but wasn't a great student. I'm not a major theologian. I don't lead a major church. I can only assume you invited me here today because of my body and not my mind.

Kristina:

Oh, don't worry.

Tori Murden McClure:

It went downhill from there.

Kristina:

How well did that go over?

Tori Murden McClure:

They laughed. Yeah.

Lydia:

Yeah.

Kristina:

I'm curious, so when you're talking about power, how do you think people compared you to other previous leaders? I think about your leadership at a university and leadership in other ways, but how do they compare you to either other women or other men? Is there a difference?

Tori Murden McClure:

I think that the place where I was most aware of that I was on the Board of Governors of the NCAA.

Lydia:

Oh wow.

Tori Murden McClure:

As NIL was coming and we were going through COVID.

Lydia:

You've just done everything.

Tori Murden McClure:

Well, I'm old. You have time. I was the acting Board Chair of football season 2020. I got to help decide whether football was going to happen in the United States of America. And how I got on the Board was they needed a few good women and they knew I had an athletic background. And so I went to one meeting of the President's Advisory Council, and the next thing I know I'm getting pushed forward to the Board of Governors. On the Board of Governors. I was president to a Division III school in Louisville, Kentucky. A little bitty in their realm of power. Nothing. I'm in a nothing school, in a nothing market. But the thing was I wasn't looking to be a Division 1 president. I wasn't looking to move up. I wasn't looking to get my million dollar gig somewhere else, so I could say what I thought without breaks and say, I think that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. And guys would be like, man, I wish I was you, because they felt like they were busy trying to punch their ticket for something else. And I was busy going, that doesn't make any sense for our athletes. That doesn't make any sense for safety. That doesn't make any sense for the good of humanity. And so I could speak and interact in the world based on what my heart felt was right. And I wasn't looking on figuring out what was going to give me power and what was going to give me control so I had more freedom than the guys did in that particular environment. I think in general, I have more freedom.

Kristina:

Why is that?

Tori Murden McClure:

Because I've claimed it.

Kristina:

Okay, for the ladies in this room, including me, tell us how to do that. How do we do that and not compare?

Tori Murden McClure:

I'm already hearing some claiming of power in the, I've decided I didn't care about this set of appearances. I didn't care about, I could wear my pajamas to school and I decided that I was going to fit in with a group that accepted me.

And I've been super lucky in my selection of friends because I pick people who have some character I admire, they can do something that I can't. They have some skill that I don't have, and I adopt them as friends because I want to be more like them. And I step away from people who are just like me or don't have anything to teach me or they're mean and I don't like them. And so I think that gives one a certain amount of freedom of you choose people who lift you up. You walk away from people who put you down. And over time you wake up and you feel okay about yourself.

And I think some of my journeys have helped as well. I don't think I learned anything on any of my journeys that life wouldn't have taught me, eventually. But y'all don't use CliffsNotes anymore. But basically we'd be using AI to give you the cheat notes on life. When I was skiing to the South Pole, it was like I was pulling pieces out of myself going, Ooh, I don't like that piece. I don't like that piece. But over time, you put it all back together and you're like, it's who I am and I need to make it work.

Lydia:

When you were talking about competitive versus comparative relationships, that really stuck with me. And I've been sitting here thinking about all of the people I've surrounded myself with and if it's competitive or competitive relationships? And I keep going back to this story. There was this in my school, there's a huge full-ride scholarship and it is given to four kids within the schools around us. And I know the people who give it out. And I've worked alongside them. And I don't know, a lot of people had told me, I really think you're in the running for it. You really think so? And I didn't get it. I wasn't even a finalist. And one of my very, very closest friends won it. And I had spent , I mean since sophomore year when I found out what it was. I had been kind of in a way, and especially with pressure from my parents kind of banking on this. And they were like, I mean Lydia, if you know the people and if you really want to go to college, you really, really need to try for this. And this would be a huge help for us. And being able to afford it. And I just didn't get it.

And one of my closest friends won it, and I remember just hugging her mom and sobbing tears of joy because she has worked her butt off and was president of the service club, and she is going into nursing and she jumped off a building with me for a local organization. She is just incredible.

Tori Murden McClure:

She's not talking about a building with a rope, right?

Lydia:

Yeah, it's repelling. It's repelling. She was a Super Girl and I was Wonder Woman. So we repelled down Slugger.

Kristina:

So you weren't jealous? I'm curious. You were sort of expecting this.

Lydia:

I was heartbroken when I found out I wasn't a finalist because the ladies who give it out, we are close, and I had worked alongside them and in local youth service projects. And the one lady, she's like, oh, we talk about you all the time. And she texted me like, oh, I see you on the newspaper. I see you in this Instagram post and asking me how my life is going, where I'm going to college. And so to not even be in the final list after being so close with them, that hurt. That really did hurt.

But I mean she needed that scholarship even more than I did. And it's not a comparison as to who worked harder and who deserved it. But I in that moment, watching her win it, watching the giant check, I went to the bathroom and was walking back to class and I saw them coming with the giant check and the camera crew and her parents and her boyfriend. And I was like, oh my gosh, I know what's happening. And just being so full of joy for her. And I get it. I get what you're saying.

Tori Murden McClure:

And it's sort of the compassionate element. The Latin "pati" means suffering. What you're passionate about, you're willing to suffer for. And the prefix come means with the willingness to suffer with another or have joy with another, but that sense of connection with another human. And when men are compassionate, they get celebrated for it. When women are compassionate, we get taken for granted because we're supposed to be compassionate, right?

Lydia:

It's expected.

Tori Murden McClure:

We're supposed to suffer with other people. We're supposed to want to be connected. And I remember there was a question about jealousy, and I don't remember, I can remember one instance of really feeling jealousy, and it was a young friend of mine and watching her interact with her mother, and it was a super healthy relationship, and my relationship with my mother was not healthy. And I remember feeling the sense of like she's talking smack to her mom and lightning isn't striking and blood isn't flowing in the streets. I mean, wow, how does this happen? And I ended up creating a very special relationship with her mom, and her mom's become kind of a surrogate mom to me. And that it was that sense of jealousy, feeling like other people have something I don't. And it was about the relationship. It was about relationships.

And so the only time I feel like I want something I don't get is more about, and I'm hearing you talk about, I had relationships with the folks who make this choice. I have a relationship. I've paid my dues. This should come my way. And sometimes that doesn't always work out, but that sense of competition being bad is about when it damages your relationships.

Competition is fine as long as you maintain your relationships in a healthy manner. Compassionate is good, unless you get sucked dry in a relationship. And so they're healthy and unhealthy parts of essentially anything. There's thought in medicine that the poison is in the dose. You can kill yourself by drinking too much water. There's nothing that's benign if it's overdone.

Kristina:

What do you think, Lexi, or what are you taking away from what she's saying today?

Lexi:

I think that's really powerful. She said about the medicine is the dose. I feel true to every single topic that we've talked about is just doing everything in moderation. But especially with comparison, yes, it can be actually a positive, but if overdone, it can be a negative. And even legacy, faith, hope, pressure and perseverance, all of these things we talked about, there's really, really positive aspects. But if taken too far, it can actually damage those relationships.

Tori Murden McClure:

Yeah, I mean, Aristotle talked about nothing in excess, everything in the golden mean, but everything about our culture says go all in. So Nietzsche wrote about, I want to build my house on the side of a volcano. He wanted to be the Ubergemacht, the Superman. And if you, particularly being female, if you stand out too much, someone's going to cut you down. And so it's a dicey game.

Kristina:

So I want to know what you guys are taking away from this conversation. There's something I wanted to share. I told Lexi earlier, so my mom has passed, but she always used to say to me, because I was very much like you when I was young. Shocker, loud, opinionated, asked lots of questions, right? And she would say these two things to me that I think about actually still very often she would say to me, Kristina, there's always going to be somebody better than you. There's always going to be somebody worse than you. Just try to be the best you. That's it. And my mother was a very devout Catholic, and she knew that I was very different from other people. And she would say, Kristina, if he wanted you, otherwise he'd have made you otherwise. Just don't try to be something that you're not. Don't compare yourself to other people because this is who you are. Just be who you are.

Tori Murden McClure:

And I think that is the source of freedom, that sense of feeling at ease in your own skin and being unapologetically yourself and yeah, I still feel out of place when I'm in a room where everyone's rearing proper shoes and I'm the only one who isn't, or it's a cocktail party and I have no idea what to say to the woman who's standing in front of me and I'm asking about her dog.

Lydia:

Right, right. That's the important question though. I completely resonate. And yeah, just when I found out that I could wear pajamas to school and my glasses instead of my contacts and not wear makeup and not sit down and shut up, and I still had friends and even a boyfriend, that's when I figured out, oh, it does not matter. No, nobody cares. You can be as far out yourself, unless you're being mean. Don't be mean. You can be as far out yourself as you want and still find your own people.

Kristina:

So you don't have to compare.

Lydia:

Yeah.

Tori Murden McClure:

Yeah. And I don't scroll a lot because I'm old, but when I get on my Instagram feed, it always has women my age who are doing not just chin-ups, but they're doing muscle-ups where they bring the bar down and they can do a muscle-up. And I'm like, oh, I should work on that. And I'm like, yeah, okay. I could spend the next two years training every day, and I'm pretty confident that I could get to a place where I could do a muscle-up. So what is it worth my time to be able to create the muscles to do that one movement? Or is it good just to stay healthy?

Kristina:

I love that. I love that. What about you, Lexi? What do you think about what's Tori said what Lydia shared today?

Lexi:

I think all of what you're all saying, I agree. It's just being yourself and being unapologetic to be yourself and surrounding yourself with people that encourage you to be that person. And keeping those relationships, those relationships healthy, I think is really important.

Tori Murden McClure:

I think the other thing that's really important is to, a lot of relationships are based on trust and I don't know any way to build trust apart from being trustworthy. In the world we're living in now where there's so much fake everything, I think it's hard to find that genuine personality, genuine, I don't know, genuine thought, that's really yours. It didn't come from AI, it didn't come from some other. Just that core of yes, this is what I believe to be right. This is what I believe to be good, and this is what I'm going to move in the direction of. Yeah.

Kristina:

I would love it if you could offer, since you are such a sage woman here, you have so much sage advice and wisdom, would you mind to just share with our young ladies here, but also everybody who's listening, anything that you think they should know about comparison and how we can maybe combat that a little bit?

Tori Murden McClure:

Oh, she's put me on the spot and I don't really have…

Lydia:

This is the big moment. This is the wrap up.

Tori Murden McClure:

This is the big moment. This is the wrap up. I hope you're ready to edit.

Kristina:

What should we know about? I mean, how do you sort of fight comparison every day? I mean, for these young women who are out there trying to make their way and not look like everybody else and be unapologetically themselves.

Tori Murden McClure:

Yeah, this doesn't answer the question, but it's what keeps coming to mind. So I'm just going to say it. I have this t-shirt on the front, it says, Be Kind. And on the back it says, Everyone is Fighting a Battle You Know Nothing About. And so when we're comparing ourselves to others, I don't know what their battles are.

And I know that if I want to be worthy, it's not about being better than or less than. It's about being kind and being present for other people, even in my introverted self. And the t-shirt was made by a company called Til Valhalla Project, and it's about reducing veteran suicide. And so these shirts that say Don't Quit kind of stuff, but that I do believe everyone we meet is fighting a battle we know nothing about. And sometimes they're battles we make in our own head, and yeah.

Kristina:

Thanks Tori.

Lydia:

Thank you for being on here today. We really appreciate you coming out.

Tori Murden McClure:

Thank You.

Kristina:

Thanks ladies.

Lydia:

Thanks for being here with us on By Her Hands podcast. We hope you feel inspired to be exactly who you are and no one else. Remember that you already carry more power than you think.

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Episode 7: In this episode of the By Her Hands podcast, Lydia, Lexi, and Justine sit down with Lonnie Ali (the wife of Muhammad Ali) to explore the meaning of legacy, impact, and living a life of purpose. Drawing from her experiences with Muhammad Ali and her own work as a philanthropist and leader, Lonnie explains that legacy is not something we intentionally build for recognition but rather the result of the positive impact we have on others. The conversation highlights the importance of authenticity, compassion, service, and standing firmly by one's values. The group discusses how everyday actions, mentorship, and caring for others can create lasting influence that extends across generations. Lonnie encourages young women to focus on making an impact rather than pursuing fame, reminding them that meaningful change often begins with small acts of kindness and leadership. Together, they reflect on the role of family, community, and role models in shaping future leaders. The episode ultimately reinforces that anyone can leave a powerful legacy by helping others and leaving the world better than they found it.

Episode Transcript

Lydia:

Today we're talking about legacy. It's a big word. People attach it to famous names, to history, to the end of someone's life. Most of the time they tie it to a person's influence, their accomplishments, what they're known for. But how do we define legacy? And is it something we even think about early in our lives? Can we shape our own legacy or do others define it? Maybe it's being formed in real time, in what we do, what we tolerate, and how we treat people. Have you ever thought about Legacy?

Justine:

You're listening to the By Her Hands podcast, a space where young women figure things out together, who we are, what we want, and the power we already carry. It's brought to you by WaterStep, a global leader in safe water innovation. Learn more about how women and girls are shaping healthier futures each by her own hands, at WaterStep.org.

Lydia:

Hi, I am Lydia and welcome back to the By Her Hands podcast.

Lexi:

Hi, I'm Lexi. It's good to be back.

Justine:

Hi everyone, this is Justine. Good to be here with you.

Lydia:

I want to welcome a very special guest today. We are honored to have Mrs. Lonnie Ali here with us, a philanthropist, businesswoman, and of course the wife of the late and legendary boxer and humanitarian Muhammad Ali. She is also the co-founder and vice chair of the Muhammad Ali Center. So welcome and thank you for being here today.

Lonnie:

Well, thank you all of you for inviting me. It's a pleasure to be here.

Lydia:

So to you, what is legacy?

Lonnie:

Legacy when you're talking about my husband's legacy is huge.

Lydia:

Yes!

Lonnie:

Bigger than the word, actually. I mean, there's so much to his legacy. I always like to think of his legacy as a tapestry with many threads, different colored threads and ribbons going through it. Very layered, very textured, right? And that's because his legacy means so much. Muhammad meant so much to so many people in many different ways and he touched so many different people. So, when I think about Muhammad's legacy, it's a huge responsibility for me because I know I have to be the guardian of that legacy, protect that legacy, promote that legacy, because legacy is not important to me unless it's mobilized. And that's important to me is to mobilize Muhammad's legacy because he left us so many wonderful examples of how to be, how to show up in the world, how to treat people, how to be compassionate, how to stand on your convictions, and to uplift people, to inspire people. So, there's so much to his legacy, so much to tend to, so much to take care of. I will never be bored.

Lydia:

How do you live on carrying on his legacy and not just in his shadow?

Lonnie:

I think because I had an opportunity to be with Muhammad after he retired from boxing and had actually been diagnosed with Parkinson's disease, I sort of became his partner, because it affected him in many different ways. Later on, it was mobility and his speech, but I sort of became his mouthpiece. And so everything we did and everywhere he went, we did together. So we were real partners. We were like one person together. And I've never looked at what I do as being in his shadow and he never presented himself or wanted me to be in his shadow. He wanted me always to be at his side. And that's where I still see myself, at his side, because even though it's not the work that I originally started and did, it's what I supported him in what he was doing. It was important work and I was happy to do it, but I shared in the experience and in the rewards of being able to help other people.

Lydia:

That's beautiful. That's beautiful.

Lonnie:

Thank you.

Lydia:

So, what has been your favorite work in carrying on? I'm curious. I want to know.

Lonnie:

Muhammad's?

Lydia:

Yes.

Lonnie:

Well, one thing Muhammad taught me and children around him, his kids, is that you have to be kind to people. And he was like that when I met him when I was six years old. He's always had the kindest, most generous heart of anybody I ever knew. And it's how you treat people and how you show up every day. And he was never a glum individual, even when he lost a fight or things weren't going well in his life. He had the draft where he was prosecuted for not accepting to go to Vietnam, but he never let that take over who he was. It was something that was happening to him, but he didn't let it destroy his outlook on life, on people or this country. So I have to take that example and do the same. I don't let things that a lot of people might let bother them, especially today, I just walk through it. That's what he did and show up on the other side.

Muhammad always did what he thought was right. He had a moral compass that was well-calibrated and he didn't worry about the rest. But he also exhibited patience because he knew things would not happen overnight. And sometimes even with him, people would not understand him immediately. But over time, as we know, people became very aware of who Muhammad was and what he stood for.

Justine:

What I really love about, I'm listening to you and I'm reminding and recalling all the videos, the videos that we saw, and I have three boys and one of them won a drawing contest because he drew Muhammad Ali's gloves and the famous phrase I think float like a butterfly…

Lydia:

"Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee."

Justine:

Exactly. And he won that. And I was like, okay, why did you take that? He said, just because of who He's who he was. And I kept listening to him and he was 12, right? And it's Zachary, he was on the podcast as well. And listening to you, I just realized that yes, we talk about legacy, but you've been mentioning who he was and it made me think about what legacy is about. It's not he started up with wanting to build a legacy. He was just being himself. Right? And role-modeling and demonstrating what he believed in. And I find it super, super inspiring because when we talk about legacy, you always think about something big that's been built with the intention to be carried over. But listening to you, I feel like it didn't start like that, did it?

Lonnie:

No, it did not. Just what you said, it was just him being him. He was always his authentic-self. But what is beautiful about what you said is this, your 12-year-old son wanted to draw Muhammad's gloves and put that phrase, that monicker, I mean that saying, he used to always say on those gloves, but that's one thing Muhammad always wanted. He always wanted to be able to connect to that next generation. He knew the day would come where there'd be a generation of young people who never saw him in the ring, never saw him on an interview. And how do you continue that? And you do it by example.

Muhammad was the kind of person I think children still find interesting because he was humorous, he was funny, he was engaging, he was authentic, and people trusted him. And they continue to trust him. Children trust him I think in some of the things he says, they've lost trust in institutions, but they still trust in personalities.

We did a compassion report at the Muhammad Ali Center, the Muhammad Ali Index, and it showed that we are losing trust in institutions, but people are gaining trust in individuals like sports figures, clergy teachers, people who are in the community who are leaders, that's who they trust, not so much institutions anymore. So Muhammad is a huge figure on that sports platform, even still today. You can't go a week really without seeing something about Muhammad. There's always, I mean even if he shows up as part of set dressing on a show, I'm serious. He's always somewhere and his energy is still floating around here.

Justine:

That's amazing.

Lonnie:

Not just here, but in a lot of places, because he was that big.

Justine:

And you mentioned also mobilizing, because I'm big on words when I listen to people, there are words that just trigger something. Right? And you mentioned mobilization, and to me it speaks to action. It speaks to what is it that you do on a daily basis? So legacy is just not about, okay, when I'm gone, what I do or what I did, it's about what people are still doing in remembering or true inspiration or because something just meant the world to them.

Lonnie:

Yeah. What are they going to hold onto?

Justine:

Yes.

Lonnie:

What example did you set or what about you do they want to identify with and hold onto? And for, like I said, for many people it's different things with Muhammad. Some of them want to hold onto the social activism of standing on their convictions and speaking up. And then there's some who want to empower other people, people around them. They don't only want to ascend themselves, they want to help other people to ascend. And then there's others who want to be that compassionate heart to reach out to people in need and lift them up as well. And Muhammad was one of those people when he saw something, he couldn't unsee it. So whatever that was, he was going to address it.

Lexi:

I think that kind of makes me start to wonder if can people our age and young girls start to try intentionally build their legacy? What does that look like? Or is it just something you think about once somebody's gone?

Lonnie:

That's a very good question, Lexi. People say things to me about what is your legacy? I don't think ever about what my legacy might be.

Lexi:

I think I'm the same.

Lonnie:

I mean, I really don't because it's not about for me, I'm not trying to be a reference point in history. I just want to live the way I know I should live and set that example. But the legacy is what, like I said, what is it that people will carry on that they learn from you after you're gone? So that legacy lives on whether you're here or not, for generations. And some of that comes through your children, your grandchildren, which I hope it will.

But you never know who you're influencing. You never know who's watching your example and what they're thinking and how they take it and how they're inspired by it. You just think you're just being you and it's just no big deal. But to some people, it's a huge deal. It really is. So I don't intentionally think about legacy. I think about his intentionally, but not mine, because I think we're so intertwined that whatever uplifts his legacy, I'm always going to be a part of it.

Lexi:

So then do you feel like it's more intent or more impact? Because I feel like Muhammad is a perfect example of the mixture of both because he was intentional about his everyday actions, but then also the impact was 10 times bigger.

Lonnie:

Well, think of somebody when we think about females, we both grew up in Catholic schools.

Lydia:

I did too actually.

Lonnie:

I did too.

Lydia:

Well see there.

Lonnie:

Now think about, and this is getting real sort of nostalgic and going back, but think about Mother Teresa.

Lydia:

That was who I thought you were going to say right there.

Lonnie:

Now what do you think? Do you think that little woman was thinking about what her legacy was? She was thinking about the impact she could make, in the moment. How could she help and change someone's life who was standing in front of her? That was what she was thinking about. But when she thought about that, she thought about uplifting them, helping them. But through her work and her passion for her work of trying to make that impact, her legacy was built and it will be everlasting.

We will always attribute kindness, compassion, care for those who cannot care for themselves, with Mother Teresa. She's like the epitome of goodness and love. And for people who have nothing, she didn't care. And that's the way she trained her novices as well, to be that same way. But that legacy was built on action. Who knows how many hours that woman worked a day, especially when she was younger. And that's the way we have to approach things. And if we want to make impact, legacy has to, if you're thinking about it has to make impact. If you don't make impact, then what's there to remember? So when I think about young women and what's wonderful about women, we can do anything.

Justine:

Right?

Lonnie:

Honest to God. And that's one thing I loved about Muhammad. People think, yeah, he was born of that generation and he was Muslim, but Muhammad was one of the most empowering people I ever met, for me. He's the one who told me, you get in the best school you can get into. He would sort of tutor me on the world and things and what's available for women. He always wanted to empower not just me, but his children as well. And when I think about that, and my father was the same way, always. There was nothing, the sky was the limit in his eyes of what women could accomplish and we can do it all. We can even give birth. Men can't do that.

Justine:

No, they can't. They can't. I could just sit here and listen to you all day long. And it feels good in a way as a woman, but also just knowing that we have examples that were set. Right? And legacy doesn't mean that you have to be that big figure, big personality from the get-go for you to create a legacy. You said something that's really important to me. It's like, it's not about how much impact you have, it's about just having that impact. Because you never know who's watching. You don't know how far it goes, but when you are in the moment, take action, make the best out of it, change somebody's life if you can or make that moment better for them. To me, that's what we should always be thriving to do because either you make impact or you empower them or you inspire someone and you can't control that.

I feel like all those examples that we have, the history has shown us that as long as you are working toward the right thing and making people feel good or get better, you are always going to build something because you don't know who's going to take the next piece. And that's very encouraging.

When I think about our setting, this podcast and all the people that we have the honor to meet, it always sparks that intention to do good, that intention to reach out and help. But also there is the level of authenticity and just being that person who wants to do good. And it always comes back to that and knowing that it's so powerful that you, that's the starting point I want to say for legacy. I hope it inspires a lot of listeners right now, a lot of girls that are anywhere in the world and feeling hopeless.

But if there's anything for me, it's understanding that if you help one person in front of you like Mother Theresa or did, if you stand your ground and you always stay true to yourself, because that's something that to me that really, if you ask me about Muhammad Ali, that's what I would say. He was never afraid of telling people the way it is because that's what he believed in and he was ready to face the consequences. Right? It will take you far no matter who you are or where you are. And that's really powerful. That's pretty powerful.

Lonnie:

I'd like to say too that, well, a couple of things. When we talk about legacy, think about grandmothers who toiled in fields or did labor, but we're that matron of the family. Who guided the family, and even though they may not have accomplished professionally everything they may have wanted to, they nurtured those beneath them, their offspring, their grandchildren, and to go out into the world and do fabulous things. And we see families like that.

It's never too late and it's never too early to start that process of inspiring a child to create impact, even when they're little. And if they are surrounded by people who do that and are conscious and intentional and think like that, then they're going to become like that. And that's why we see Lexi and Lydia sitting here today making impact because that's the families they were raised by. And the example was set so true. And the bar is high and it's expected, and we have to do that. We have to put those expectations out there. But I'd hate for any child in any part of this world who feels like they're worthless or cannot achieve to think they're not valuable and valued. They have to be.

And if you're not thinking about yourself, think about your children, how are you going to inspire them? Right? And that's really about legacy, it's passing that torch forward and making children, or that next generation of children, understand that doing good in this world is not something to be dismissed or minimized. If it weren't for people taking care of other people, we wouldn't have community. We wouldn't have a family. I mean, that's what makes a community right? And makes it stronger.

So, I would encourage anybody out there who feels like they're at a loss, there's always a way to find a path to become something more than what you see yourself as today.

Justine:

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Lydia:

There's a story of a family from my school where the mother grew up, was in an abusive relationship, married, had kids at 14, 15 years old and ended up their father either passed away, divorced, I'm not sure. I don't remember the whole story. But she had two sons and single mother in the fifties and sixties. She gave everything to these boys. They grew up, went through my school, graduated, and they now are filthy, disgusting rich. They give these massive scholarships every single year to kids at my school in honor of their mother who just inspired that and has, it's named after her and she has left. It is the perfect example to what you were saying. She has left her legacy just by raising her boys to get a good education.

Lonnie:

Right. And to give back.

Lydia:

And to give. Exactly. Exactly.

Justine:

Beautiful.

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Before we continue with our episode, let me take a minute to remind you that by her hands is a global program empowering women and girls through safe water access, menstrual health management and economic opportunity. The program and this podcast are brought to you by WaterStep. Together, we believe that when a young woman can protect her own health, she leads. When she leads, her family thrives. And when her family thrives, her whole community grows stronger. Learn more about how women and girls are shaping healthier futures each by her own hands, at WaterStep.org.

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Lydia:

I see it. I see it in my own life. Do you think legacy, well, I feel like we've kind of touched on it, but it does it have to be something big and how can you leave a legacy without being the greatest boxer ever?

Lonnie:

When you think about legacy, I look at it as what did you do to help somebody else that you can take, you can claim their success as part of yours, right? It's like a coach who's out there teaching a little leaguer, how to bat a ball across the fence. He's not the one. And that person grows up to be a major league batter in the major leagues and a fantastic batting average. He's not the one batting it over the fence himself, but it's because of the time he invested in that child and the skills he taught that child. That's why they're successful. So that home run, that's his home run too. And that's the way I look at things like you've seen homes in neighborhoods where the kids gather and the mother is the one that the neighborhood kids seem to be attracted to, and she nurtures whether they're hers or not.

Lydia:

She has the popsicles.

Lonnie:

She has popsicles. She may even tutor some of them, help them with their homework. And even though those aren't her kids, all the success that they bring and they experience and they have, she's part of that. She was a reason for that success. So for me, that's legacy. Even though those aren't her kids, she can share in their legacy, because she was part of it.

And I look at that, especially with Muhammad, anybody that comes into the Center, whether they work there or they contribute something of some sort, they are part of that legacy. It's up to them how big they want that thread to be.

Lydia:

Absolutely.

Lonnie:

Yeah. And we're always adding to it. And then those kids, you talked about these two young men who they inspire, that continues to go back to their mother because if it wasn't for her, they wouldn't be there. So it's like the gift that keeps on giving.

Lydia:

Yeah, they're sending two of my good friends to college now.

Lonnie:

That's fantastic.

Lydia:

Yeah, it's incredible.

Lonnie:

That is incredible. And kudos to them.

Justine:

We need more of that.

Lonnie:

We do.

Justine:

We need more of that. We need more intentionality. You know how we started by saying legacy is not necessarily intentional, because it can just come from just a simple act of generosity, of caring or love. But at the same time, there is, as I listen to us, I feel like there's also that intentionality where we need to want to remember who did that for us, who took us to the next level and decide and want to carry that person's name or that person's actions so that they're remembered as well, so that we don't forget where it came from. We don't forget that before me there was somebody else and before that person there was somebody else. And then you feel like you belong to a cycle of goodness. You belong to a community just because there was care, right, from the beginning and somebody started it. So to me that yeah, you don't have to be intentional about wanting to start a legacy, but we should be intentional about remembering. Right? But it's important because that's a starting point and it keeps everything real and together.

Lonnie:

But always know that just because you create legacy doesn't mean people will always know who you are or remember your name. I mean, when you think of people who went out, for instance, women who were part of the suffrage who went out and marched, we don't know all those women do we? But look what they left us. Look at the legacy that they all were part of the bigger picture that they left us for all women to be able to vote, just think. And what a difference that has made in this country. But we don't know all the people that did that.

So sometimes those names are silent and unseen, but their actions and the outcomes of those actions are huge. So never think that it's less than or diminish what you do, even if people don't recognize you for it. You don't need recognition. You need impact. As you spoke about Lexi, it's about the impact that you make and collectively making something that's much bigger than you or the group you're with. And it gives, this is forever. Women hopefully will always have that vote. Right? I mean, that's not always true with everything as we see today, but it's progress. But women have been empowered to vote, which was wonderful.

Lexi:

Absolutely. I feel like a lot of people like our age, especially with social media and stuff, it creates a stigma that if you want to have a legacy, that's the people who have the spotlight on social media or something, or the people whose name is most known. And I think this is just a really, really good reminder for us that everyone has a legacy no matter the size. And each person is equally as important. And it's really all about the intention of building that impact to those who are around you.

Lonnie:

Absolutely. But I would say to those who are seeking fame on social media, that's their 15 minutes. But does it transcend? Does it transcend time and space and generations? I don't think so. Nobody's going to remember an influencer. They're not. They're hot for the minute. And as soon as some other trend comes through, they're history.

Justine:

They're replaced.

Lonnie:

I mean, where is MySpace? I mean, I'm just using that as an example, sort of abstract example. I mean, where is it? Not that I ever knew about it much anyway, I wasn't on it. But trends change. So when things change, those things that don't have lasting impact, they change too. People forget them, they go by the wayside. People don't remember.

So I wouldn't try to build my legacy on becoming famous on social media, unless it was about changing the bigger picture, changing the future for good. It can be a useful tool for that.

Lydia:

I think leaving a legacy is personally different and almost more difficult for girls and women than it is for men. There's all the famous stories. The big one I sat here and I looked it up to get the names, but of Watson and Crick who discovered the…

Lonnie:

Oh, the DNA.

Lydia:

Yes, the DNA double helix. But it was Rosalyn Franklin's discovery and she never got anything for it. And they took the Nobel Prize and just how many more things there have been like that. Not just by men taking women's ideas and discoveries, but other marginalized groups and things being covered up. And I think it is so much more difficult for, it's harder to leave a legacy if you're not seen as someone who can have one. And being a young woman, it's different. It's just different.

Lonnie:

I have to say something to you, Lydia, I was not aware of that. I was not aware of that. I've learned something here this morning, this afternoon.

Lydia:

I'm glad.

Lonnie:

But that happens, men, it doesn't just have to be men. People take ownership of things that do not belong to them. But you know that about her, right?

Lydia:

Yes, exactly.

Lonnie:

So sometimes truth comes to light. You can't hide truth forever. It's going to come to light. But you're right, they got the Nobel Peace Prize, they enjoyed all of the accolades and got all the press. And there are going to be always going to be people who never know that fact. You just mentioned that it was a woman who discovered the double helix. But yeah, hopefully one day.

Lydia:

And her legacy is now, not that she's discovered the double helix, but that she is one of the many who have been hidden in the shadows. And her discovery has led to people digging in deep into other discoveries and seeing who really was behind this and where the story really came from. Although for her, her memory is tarnished from how I am sure she imagines it would've been to be remembered for her amazing discovery. But she is seen as a reason to relook at history and to investigate.

Justine:

And bring to light. I feel like that happens so many times to women because I believe that we have that nurturing sense most of the time. And we do think just because we need to do them. And that's the right thing to do. Not waiting. And that's a mother, and this is the mother speaking right where you care. You take care of your loved ones, of your children just because you're a mother. And I'm lucky to have that instinct and to be there for them and to be of service and everything. Not wanting any recognition.

If I spend the whole night not sleeping because I'm caring for my children, I'm not waiting for someone to recognize me and just say it out loud. I'm doing what's right. And we don't always realize that we are building something very deep because we are impacting the kids. Because your kid will be looking up at you and realize what you did for them. And it might change their lives that moment because you did or said something. But we don't realize it. We don't ask for recognition.

And I'm saying that because what I'm feeling right now is I want to tell anybody, any girl, any woman, young woman around the world who's listening to us, no matter what you do, keep doing it because you never know when that moment will happen for you to have made a huge difference, be recognized and have your legacy known and public and visible, because it doesn't matter. We need people who are being themselves, who are taking actions.

And coming back to the trends, what you were saying, Lonnie, about the trends and it passes. I think that's the biggest difference. And you started with that when you were talking about Muhammad Ali, how it was about his personality, his actions, how he stood for. Those things don't change because they're authentic, because you are putting yourself out there. And for me, this is also, this is a definition of legacy. Being authentic, being out there and being constant. That doesn't change. And it's not a trend. It is not affected by who is next. It's affected by the changes that you make, not just what you say or how you show up. So yeah.

Lydia:

Lexi, do you think you have a legacy yet?

Lexi:

I have a long ways, but I try to wake up every day and be intentional about what I'm doing, how I act towards people. And hopefully I'm starting to build it. But yeah.

Lydia:

And I just graduated high school three days ago. And I feel in a weird way, I heard you guys talking about how you've never thought about what legacy you're leaving, but I feel in a way, I kind of have been very involved in my school's radio program. And I feel my quote-unquote legacy there is I've set the trend. I push for the school to go on the International Broadcasting System awards. I was like, we need send these kids to the award show. They've worked hard for it and we did a 24-hour radiothon, and we did these fundraisers and things like setting that so that it can continue into next year. I feel I can already see just a difference, a little bit of difference.

Lonnie:

This is the first year that they did that?

Lydia:

The radiothon?

Lonnie:

Yeah.

Lydia:

So they hadn't done it in about seven years.

Lonnie:

Oh.

Lydia:

Yes. And so today or today this year was the first year they'd done it in around seven years. Yeah, it ended around just before COVID and stuff. It was kids sitting in the radio studio all the time and then they just didn't bring back.

Lonnie:

Has it been seven years? Lord.

Lydia:

It's been more around six. Don't worry. Don't worry.

Lonnie:

Seems like it was two years ago.

Lydia:

Right? Right.

Lexi:

I think that's a perfect example of, you set that example for others, and hopefully that'll continue to come. Like Lonnie were talking about earlier, is having that role model that you look up to, that they set that example and that's why you become the way that you are. And I feel like that's really something that touches to me. It's like my mom got me into service maybe with fifth grade at WaterStep. I was going on the news and doing shoe drives, but it's because she encouraged me to get involved in things like that. So I think it's really finding that role model that's going to push you to be better and surrounding yourself with a really good community.

Lonnie:

Yeah, that's true.

Justine:

And give back. And give back. Because that's the cycle. I'm just looking at it from you receive, you give back. And we hope that everybody continues on doing that because we need that connection now more than ever now. More now that everything is so digital. Everything is so far away.

Lonnie:

And impersonal.

Justine:

Yes. Superficial, right? You just say things, but then yeah, we need to continue just giving back.

Lonnie:

And connecting.

Justine:

Connecting with people.

Lydia:

And I feel like to sum it up a bit, people won't remember what you had but what you did. And nobody could care less that there's some very rich people who graduated from New Albany High School. But the fact that they're giving thousands of dollars to kids every single year, that's what makes them, that's why they're remembered. That's why they're in the hall of fame of our school. It's just what you do.

Lydia:

So Ms. Lonnie, I want to know what you think. What advice do you have for young women growing up and the people in this room, and of course people listening, how can they leave a legacy and be as impactful as you have been?

Lonnie:

I hope I've been impactful. You can only hope, right?

Lydia:

I can assure you, from the outsider looking in.

Lonnie:

Yeah, you just hope. I think you just have to do what Lexi said. You have to get up every morning and be intentional about what you're doing and be cognizant that people may be watching what you're doing and imitating what you're doing. Little sisters do that a lot. They imitate their big sisters.

Lexi:

Mine definitely does, always, every day.

Lonnie:

But find a passion, something that you're interested in that really you feel like you can make impact, but something you like doing. Nothing that's forced. And I don't care what that is. People say, what is your purpose? What is your purpose in life? If somebody were to ask you that, what would you say?

Lydia:

To leave it better than I found it.

Lonnie:

Good.

Lydia:

Yeah. Is that a good answer?

Lonnie:

That's a fantastic purpose.

Lydia:

I feel like I'm on Family Feud. Good answer. Good answer.

Lonnie:

Yes. But that's how you make impact because that's your passion, is to make this world better. Make the world better now and then more so. Better than when you found it when you leave. Right? I don't know why I'm juggling all that up. Can't get that straight in my head. Had a long day.

But you want to leave the world better than you found it, and that's a fantastic way to build legacy, but I just never think of it as legacy. I just think of it as Lexi had said earlier, impact. How do you build impact? And if you build impact, that legacy will automatically follow.

Lydia:

That was beautiful. That was beautifully said.

Lexi:

Something I'm sort wondering is do you feel like legacy is something you define for yourself, or do you feel like it's something other people sort of define for you?

Lonnie:

I think other people define it for you. It's because it's how they interpret you and what they take from what you've done and what they see you do and what they hold onto. So for them, that is your legacy. A lot of people agree on certain things, like with Muhammad, people will say he left a big legacy, one of compassion and social activism, among other things. But yeah, I think other people define your legacy for you.

Lydia:

Yep. So thank you so very much for being on here today, for joining us. It was really an honor to be able to sit down with you. I mean, I grew up in southern Indiana and all of my classrooms have that famous picture of Muhammad Ali hanging up and to be like, oh my gosh, I'm going to sit down with his wife and the closest to him and this amazing legacy that I know, even though I'm 30-minutes across the river.

Lonnie:

Well, thank you. I really enjoyed being here and sharing time with each and every one of you and talking with you. And I know all of you are on that path. You're so intentional. You really want to do good, as you said, leave the world better than you found it. When I see people, especially young people like you and Lexi, I can't wait to see where you guys land. Honestly. I really want to see as you get older, where you guys land and what you're doing. To me, that's exciting.

Justine:

This is so true, Lonnie, because when I listen to them, I look at them, I realize everything that they've done. And I always go back to what was I doing at their age. And I, I'm just like, you guys are so impressive.

Lonnie:

So advanced.

Justine:

So advanced. Exactly!

Lonnie:

Honestly.

Justine:

Because, at your age, I can assure you, I wasn't thinking about all of that. So sitting here today, we have a whole generation going on here, but at the same time, I'm seeing powerful women. We have the honor to have one amazing woman with us. But I can see how powerful you guys going to be and how impactful you're going to be. And we're watching you. So you need to get it right because pressure's on. That's the legacy. Yeah, the pressure's on. And thank you. Thank you Lonnie for just being here talking about legacy, but also helping us understand that everybody is capable of building their own legacy in their ways and wherever they are. So thank you very much.

Lonnie:

We have two budding leaders here.

Justine:

Absolutely.

______________

Lydia:

Thank you for being here with us on the By Her Hands podcast. We hope you'll take a minute to think about your own legacy and what you're building, big or small in ways people see and in ways they don't. No matter what it is. Remember that you carry more power than you think.

Justine:

You've been listening to the By Her Hands podcast brought to you by WaterStep. Around the world. Girls carry so much responsibility, hope, and the work of caring for their families. WaterStep equips them with tools and training that help them protect their own health, support their schools, and lead change in their communities. When girls have the tools they need, their power isn't something they search for, it is something they carry. Learn more about how girls everywhere are shaping their futures, each by her own hands. And if you want to be part of a legacy of helping women and girls around the world, visit WaterStep.org.

Disclaimer:

Listeners are reminded that the ideas, opinions, and information expressed on the by her hands podcast belong solely to the guests and do not necessarily reflect the views, policies, or positions of WaterStep, its staff, partners, donors, or affiliates. This podcast is provided for informational and educational purposes only, and is not intended as professional advice of any kind. Water assumes no responsibility for actions taken based on the information provided.

For more information about WaterStep

Website: www.WaterStep.org

Episode 6: In this episode of the By Her Hands podcast, the conversation centers around the meaning of hope and how it shapes personal growth, resilience, and leadership. Mark Hogg, Founder and CEO of WaterStep, shares powerful stories about building a mission-driven organization and overcoming rejection while staying committed to a long-term vision. They discuss how hope can serve as both a feeling and a conscious decision, especially during moments of uncertainty, stress, or self-doubt. Through personal experiences involving school, leadership, service, and global advocacy, you'll hear how hope is strengthened through community, faith, encouragement, and shared experiences. The conversation also explores the importance of empowering young women to pursue their dreams despite societal expectations and challenges. Hope grows when people support one another and choose optimism even during difficult seasons. Ultimately, the discussion reinforces that hope is not passive. It is an intentional mindset that can inspire action, resilience, and positive change in others.

Episode Transcript

Lydia:

Hope doesn't feel the same for everybody. It changes depending on who you are and what you're going through. Sometimes, you're excited about the future and really believe you can make your dreams come true. Other times, it feels like everything is impossible. Hope can come and go that fast. When you have hope, does it change how you think, the way you act? Does it help you keep going when things feel heavy? Do you even need hope at all?

In this episode, we talk about what hope feels like, when you're still figuring your life out and trying not to completely freak out. It's an honest conversation about the pressure, the confusion, the spiraling thoughts and the hopeful moments, both big and small, that somehow break through.

Justine:

You're listening to the By Her Hands podcast, a space where young women figure things out together, who we are, what we want, and the power we already carry. It's brought to you by WaterStep, a global leader in safe water innovation. Learn more about how women and girls are shaping healthier futures each by her own hands, at WaterStep.org.

Lydia:

Hello and welcome back to the By Her Hands podcast. I'm Lydia, and today I'm joined by...

Lexi:

…Lexi,

Justine:

And Justine.

Lydia:

It's good to be back in here and we have another guest with us today. Do you want to go ahead and introduce yourself, Mark?

Mark:

Oh man, it's great to be here. So thankful to have you guys invite me. My name is Mark Hogg and I am the Founder and CEO of WaterStep.

Lydia:

That is incredible. And we are very grateful that you decided to come out and spend your, what is it, Wednesday? Wednesday afternoon with us here recording this.

Mark:

I'll spend any afternoon with you guys.

Lydia:

Oh, corny. But today we're talking about hope and what hope means to each of us and not just the name. So Mark, what's your hope?

Mark:

I'd tell you, I think hope is an incredible word to imagine. Some people think it's a feeling. Some people wait for it to ebb and flow and wander through their lives and in out of their lives. Some people wonder what is the foundation for hope. I think it carries with it a tremendous need for thought and practice living out. But I think hope has the potential to really be a guiding force in our life, and it has been in mine.

Justine:

Wow, I really like that. The fact that you mentioned feelings, events, thoughts, living experience. And when I was getting ready for this discussion today, I was really reflecting on hope. What does it mean for me? And all it brought is feeling, right? It's a feeling that I keep asking myself, how do I carry that? Is it often, is it something that is being triggered or so on? So Lexi, what do you think?

Lexi:

Yeah, absolutely. I think it can definitely be triggered in sort of small events, but sort of turning into something big. So for me, this past summer, I did an internship at Norton in the ICU and my very first day I walked in and I saw about a 15-year-old girl, and she was completely unconscious, intubated, very, very sick. We didn't know if she was going to make it, and I was just like, wow, that could have been me. We go back the next day to the same unit. We see that same girl. She was extubated. She only had the tube in, she was sitting up, she had her hair braided and the nurses were taking care of her. And I was just like, wow, this is incredible.

And it was just that moment to remind me to not give up and always have hope. So I think it's a feeling that can definitely be fleeting and sometimes it's like ebb and flow, like you said, Mark. But I think what I learned from that experience was to never let go of it and just to always keep it close to heart.

Mark:

I like the way you said that. I think it's a decision that you've got to come to a point in your life to make that decision. I am going to live a life of hope. You've got to have that foundation. For me, it's wrapped up in my faith and my trust that no matter what's happening, that there is something bigger than myself around me. I'll be honest with you, my day can shift. I'm a pretty emotional person if anybody knows me very well, so I can be up and down. So I can be great one minute, get a phone call and I'm just a poopy pants. But that's real different than hope. It's not how I'm wrapped up in the moment in what I'm feeling, but that I realize that no matter what's happening, I have the hope that life will eventually see me to a place that I can breathe, even if there's great tragedy and pain in the midst of that, that I will come through that. And I think we've all had those kind of experiences in our lives where we thought, will this ever end?

Lydia:

I've absolutely been there and I feel like right now I'm kind of in one of those states a little bit. Everything was, I mean, it was going well. And then I mean, I don't know what happened. My car, it's not working right now, so I have no car and prom is in three days and I need my car and I'm doing poorly on all of my tests. And I have three going on right now that are multi-days. And the hard part is that there's such big deals for me to graduate. I'm taking the AAPPEL and it's something for, so you can get your certificate of bilingual proficiency, and I've taken five years of Spanish and this test is kicking my butt and it's so, it's just a lot going on. And it's hard for me to keep track of everything and to remember eventually even in a week, so much of this will be over and I just need to keep hold onto that hope of it's a temporary feeling and it will end. The due date will come whether I'm ready for it or not, and I can get out of it.

Mark:

I like the way you're talking about that because I don't think hope is about looking through a magnifying glass. I think it's about looking at the horizon and realizing so much more, so muchbigger. There's so much things that we want to sweat, but I mean for those of us, I know all of us in this room that have been a part of bigger events in our lives and places where young ladies are lying in bed intubated, that we know things could be a whole lot worse than what we got. And I feel like that's living with people in those situations, reminding of myself, of where I've been and where I've come to that keeps me thinking without a magnifying glass, but on the horizon.

Justine:

That's very interesting that you say that, Mark. And let's not forget, you're the CEO, the founder of WaterStep, right? We're having that podcast today also because of the mission of WaterStep and the passion and the commitment that we have for betterment of lives, especially women and girls. And I can't help but ask you that question. Mark, everything that you just said is just so right. At the same time I look at the 30 years of WaterStep and I'm just like, how did you manage that Mark from the first day, the first time, the first minute you had that horizon, but at the same time you knew that you had it. I would say you have to get up every day or every hour to keep pushing. What is it like, and after so many years of doing that, what would be one thing that you would tell young people or everybody who's listening when it comes to hope and when it comes to achieving?

Mark:

I think that horizon-view has to be able to, and it takes practice, I think protect you from what other people say, from experiences that you have, from let downs or times of when you've failed somebody else. I mean, there's times when I've done very poorly in a relationship and I have felt a very deep sense of hopelessness with myself and what might happen in that relationship.

I remember you were talking about the growth of WaterStep over the years, which happened many, many years before we even started. And in dreaming about that, I'll never forget, I met with these three men at a Denny's restaurant once a week, early morning, about 6:30, 6:00 in the morning. And they would kind of mentor me, and I was always excited about the chance of building an organization where it could have something to do with water and with young people.

And so in the midst of that, there were other things happening in the city that we were a part of together. And I saw that driving to that central goal. Well, they wouldn't actually talk to me about investing in what we were doing. They wanted it to be something different. Mark, this is what it really needs to look like. And it really wasn't the vision that I had. And so I had a meeting with three other men. They met me at a restaurant and they said, Hey, we're really excited about what you're doing. We want to invest to get this thing started. We want you to work with the people. We want to be a part of this and we're going to invest thousands of dollars to get this jump started. And so I went back to those guys at Denny's. I could not wait to go to Denny's to see these guys.

So I told them about the meeting and they said, what are you talking about? We had no thought. We don't know what you're doing. We had no thought that you would want to do this, and we don't support this at all. And one gentleman called me incorrigible, and as they were talking, they one by one, they left me at the table until I was all by myself. They all three had their time to yell at me and shout at me. And I was left there and tears started screaming down my face. And one of the things was I didn't know what incorrigible really meant, so I had to go home and look it up and the dictionary. But I realized this great sense of hopelessness in that moment. Marcia came home that afternoon and I was just. I'm sorry. Marcia is my wife.

Yes, yes, absolutely. She's amazing. Strong woman. But she came home and found me that way. And I think what I've been able to do with my life is to just, when I'm told no, it kind of rubs something inside me that shoves me to the side and says, I'm going to fix this. And so it just took everything I said, I'm going to keep moving. And so that's that. Every day you get up in the morning and say, okay, this is the vision I've got. This is the hope I have. I'm going to figure out how I'm going to move through whatever happens.

Lexi:

So what I'm hearing from that is you are a visionary, you are a go-get it type of person. I feel like you always have hope. Even though those people were turning you down, you were still like, I'm going to go get this. That sort of makes me wonder. I feel like for me, I'm more of like a realist. Yes, I hope, but it's sort of a quiet hope. I feel like when I really want to get something, I'm scared that I might not get it. So I just sort of take a step back and yes, I'm hopeful, but I don't really want to tell anybody about it yet. It might not happen. So do you feel like hope is different for girls rather than boys?

Mark:

Well, that's a great question and as a man, I don't know that I can answer that.

Lydia:

I mean, I have the same kind of tendencies that you do. Mark. I can tell you recently with my school's radio station, we had the opportunity to go to New York for an award show. And my teacher was like, I don't know if this is going to work out. I don't really know. And I pushed and pushed and pushed for months, planned this whole trip, and we ended up with 48 hours in New York. I was sitting through a school board meeting just to make sure that they approved it. And emailing superintendent, I was like, we need to go. Here's what's happened. We've done it before and I need to make sure that this happens.

Mark:

But I don't know that that, back to what you were saying, Lexi. I think hope doesn't look the same in each of us. I don't think that what you're saying is not hopeful. And I don't think that I'm saying that I've never felt like you're feeling and describe that feeling. And I had hope in my life. So we've got to define hope for ourselves and find that foundation for me. Find that foundation for you where hope finally sits. When you're like, gee, I'm not sure if this is going to happen or not. And I've got to find somewhere to land that. And for me, I land that on my faith and I just realize that, okay, there's something bigger than I. God is here at work in a way that I don't understand, and I'll practice again and again and again in my life until I can finally, at least no matter how I'm feeling, I can't always trust my feelings. But no matter how I'm feeling that I know that that's reality for me. And I think that's exactly what you're talking about you do. It just doesn't come out of your mouth the same way, but you're doing it. You know what I'm saying?

Justine:

I want to be back on what you're saying, Lexi, in terms of what is hope for girls or women. And I want to say that the things that inspired me the most throughout my career in international development, it's when I was sitting with young women talking about their dreams and realizing it. And I remember that particular young girl or young woman in Senegal, she was the only mechanic student in a professional program. And everybody was talking about it. Everybody was talking about her, and she had the pros and the cons where she's a girl, why isn't she doing hair? And so on. And she just said, I dreamt about it. I've always been attracted to cars, to mechanic. My role models are my older brothers, my father and I wanted to do it. And I have so many other stories like that. And for me, hope in young women that are connected to their dreams, it's game changer. It's a game changer because it's always inspiring. It's always a first.

But the side part for me is that they have to go against so many standards and norms. And for me, it's listening to all of you, especially you Mark, and the fact that it's about not giving up. It's about not taking no for an answer. Really, It drives the point home in my mind, it's as a woman, it's really what it is about. Because so many women and girls will hear, no. Will hear that, oh, this is not how it's done. And I have so many moments where I was told that when you get to leadership and you're just like, everybody's expecting you to do it like everyone else, and they're like, oh, this is not how we do it. And then you're like, okay, but I'm going to be the first one. Why? Because I have a horizon. Why? Because I believe in myself and I have a dream. And I think that's also what hope is about. It's just not letting go of your dream and just keep pushing.

Mark:

And that hope that you're talking about and that dream, whatever that is, and that foundation that we're talking about, it will transcend to that time that you're waiting, gee, is this going to happen? Because isn't that in that the middle time right there? Is it going to happen? Is it going to not? I mean, that's where the hope really, that's where you're banking on it and the glass is half full or the glass is half empty. Well, in a little bit of time you'll figure out if the glass is going to be drained out empty or if it's going to be filled up. You just got to be able to hope in the midst of that.

Lexi:

Absolutely. I think we've all been saying it in different words, but hope is a choice. Yes, it's a feeling, but at the end of the day, it's you waking up every single day and choosing to be hopeful, choosing to see the positive. And I think especially for young women, we do get told no a lot of times. And sometimes society tells us our dreams are silly or that's not what you're supposed to be doing. But I think having a support system around you can help you keep that hope and wake up every day and choose it again and again.

_________

Before we continue with our episode, let me take a minute to remind you that by her hands is a global program empowering women and girls through safe water access, menstrual health management and economic opportunity. The program and this podcast are brought to you by WaterStep. Together, we believe that when a young woman can protect her own health, she leads. When she leads, her family thrives. And when her family thrives, her whole community grows stronger. Learn more about how women and girls are shaping healthier futures each by her own hands, at WaterStep.org.

________

Lydia:

I think hope has become the fire or I think hearing no has become kind of a fire under me. And just in that kind of hope with, if I hear, oh, well, I don't know if that's going to work. I'm going to make it work now. You said the words, now I'm going to make it work. So I completely, I get it. I get it. And in a weird roundabout way, even though everything right now for me kind of feels like it sucks, I still sitting here can remember, okay, it's really not that much going on and I have a lot of good happening and I just need to keep hanging on.

Justine:

And it's worth it. It's worth it to keep pushing because the end is just what you want. So it's worth it fighting for. And also to me, the other side of us feeling hope and working from it, it's for it, it's also the fact that we need to realize that people are watching, people are listening, and we are giving them hope just by achieving, just by pushing through. And I'm going to come back to you, Mark, because I started with how did you get here? But at the same time, the work that is being done with WaterStep, it's also bringing hope to others. Right? And I think that hope is just encompassing. It's about what I'm feeling, what I want to do, how I'm doing it, but also what it brings to others or what it inspires others to continue having hope and go for it.

Mark:

It's magnified in each other. It can bring it to somebody else, and it grows in somebody else.

Justine:

I love that. I love that. So it becomes a responsibility. And I think that just thinking about the others, I wonder how we can amplify, magnify because it's so big. It's so beautiful that we can just keep it for ourselves.

Lydia:

My mom always jokes and she's like, Lydia, you give me hope for the future. Your generation gives me hope for the future and everything. And I don't know what she did when she was little. I don't know what her generation was up to, but she's always talking about how when she sees my friends, me taking care of my friends or them taking care of me when my car was down, Yara took me to school every day for a month and a half, the first time my car was down. So when she sees that and when she sees everybody coming out to support the local events that we have and how the community comes together in support of people, she's like, this really gives me hope. It's one of her sayings, hope for the future and maybe everything will be okay.

So I think to talk, I mean, hope is such a big idea and there's a lot of really big thoughts with what is it and how do you understand it? But to be able to experience it, a lot of times I feel like we feel just hopeless. It's not until you really sit down and look at your life that you remember that you have, that you really do feel hope, even though it's coming out of you as kind of doom and despair. And maybe I'm just sad over my car, but I really do feel like I forget how much good is going on, and I forget that I have such a reason to push and have hope for my future because of everything, everything else. You can't let the good outweigh the bad for that.

Lexi:

Absolutely. That just makes me wonder of how do you give that hope to your mom? What do you do that makes you feel that way? How do we give hope to other people? And I feel like for me, it's seeing the smiles on people's faces when I know that I've built them up, smiling at somebody in the hallway, giving them a hug, asking them how they've been. Just really strengthening that community. Even going to the UN, even my presence at the UN was so powerful to those women. They were like, your younger generation gives us hope. It's just being in community with one another and making sure you're always inclusive and just trying to make it as positive as you can.

Justine:

I love what you just said. First of all, Lydia amazing. Like you giving it to your mom. I think kudos to you because moms are tough. Sometimes, it's not that what you hear, so incredible. And Lexi listening to you, I'm like, how can we give hope to others? Encouragement, compliment, feedback, just telling them that we see you in everything they do. I think that's powerful in itself. And then I was listening to you and reflecting back on all the episodes that we've had, the guests that we've had, I remember Faith talking to us about everything she did for her community, the role modeling, what she set out to do, and I'm pretty sure that she gave hope to her community to a level we can't even understand. Doreen talked to us about how she rose from her sickness and just started doing incredible things, showing that you can rise from anything that puts you down. It's all about what we were saying, again, not giving up.

So for me, really hope is just making sure that everybody sees you and that you see them as well in terms of what you're doing and make sure that it's momentum that is continuing. Right? Mark, do you feel like the same?

Mark:

Yeah, and I think what you're saying is it reminds me of kind of this ancient Jewish thinking where the story of the Jewish people is in a circle, but the circle kind of loops around on itself, and it's all about memory. And the role that we can play in each other's lives is remember when, and you remember when that thing happened and we shared that thing and it was so great? And remember when that happened and we pulled out of that or remember this? And I think that's the great thing about in relationship with each other, we share memories. And a lot of times, all I just need to be is reminded that this ain't going to be here forever. And we've been through this together before. I just need you to say, remember this?

Justine:

Wow. We have been through this together, sharing memories. And By Her Hands, it's also, and it's self-hope. It means for me just sitting here having this podcast talking to you guys. And I'm hoping that so many young girls and women will be listening to us. And one thing that I want to tell them when they're listening, please, please, ladies, share everything you know. Share your challenges. Share your successes. Share what you're going through because you never know who's going to listen, who's going to hear it, and the hope that you'll bring them.

Last time we were talking, we were on a panel, Lexi and Lydia, and one of the questions that the ladies ask is, okay, what is it that you expect from us? Or what are you waiting from us? And I think one of you said that, don't think it's not happening. Whatever happened to you before is not happening to us young generation. And it stuck with me. It stuck with me. I remember you saying that. I believe in it. I think for me it's a great path to build hope.

Lydia:

And I mean, that reminds me of my favorite thing, the butterfly effect. I love the butterfly effect. And anytime something goes bad, anytime something goes bad, I'm just like, yes, I'm very, very late to school. But if I had left earlier, maybe I would've gotten a car crash and died. So, thank you butterfly effect for saving my life today. And it's just, I mean, everything you do, and whether it's, but really, I mean the positive stick with people more than a negatives, I feel, and everything you do can just inspire those around you.

Justine:

Absolutely.

Lydia:

And I hear so much because I do this and I do my charity work because it's fun. And when I look back or when I go, like I did, I had a goat yoga one weekend, and this elderly woman, I was walking through wrangling goats, as one does. And she was like, Lydia, I saw your article in the paper and I just am so impressed by what you've done and all this stuff. In the moment, I was like, okay, that's great, ma'am, but there's a goat peeing on your yoga mat. And I'm kind of trying to take care of it.

But looking back, I can see that just because of my youthfulness and even my being a girl and being able to do these things, and it inspired so much hope in her that she had to share it. She had to buy the ticket and come there and tell me that. So it's really just you give hope through your actions. If you can do it, then why can't someone else?

Justine:

You're really changing my idea about hope. Like this discussion, you think hope is I'm waiting for the thing to happen, but it's not a moment. It's really a process, a mindset. It's your environment is what you want to set out, what you set out yourself for. How do I say what you're set out to do, what you want to do? How do you involve others? How do you encourage? How do you share? Yeah. I felt like hope is can be anything we want it to be as long as it gets you to where you want to go. Right? Lexi, would you say?

Lexi:

Absolutely. I think it's a choice. It's a mindset. It's choosing to wake up every day wanting the best for you and wanting the best for everyone around you. I think. How can you give hope? You can tell your story, build community, lift each other up, be positive because you never know how it's going to impact somebody else.

Justine:

And enable optimism.

Mark:

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Justine:

So Mark, what's your hope?

Mark:

So I have the great honor and pleasure of working with you all and a large group of people. And all of our hope is to live the day to see that no child die of waterborne illness. And that mantra carries me through so much. And I think with a vision that we all have, the moments, the opportunities, the time that we can spend trying to figure out what our vision is for our life, what our ideas for our life, what's most important for our life and the why of our life. That really helps build that foundation that we were talking about earlier. It infuses things to kind of be stuck. It gives the stickiness to the foundation that we have. And so my hope is just spending my life with this great group of people, trying to make sure everybody's drinking safe water.

Justine:

I want to go around the table and just ask everyone these questions. What do you feel hopeful for Lydia? What is it that you hit?

Lydia:

That my car repairs won't be too expensive.

Justine:

Absolutely.

Lydia:

No, I hope, I mean, with so much going on, I have this big long list in front of me because it's been driving me insane. I had to just write everything out to get it out of my head. I just forget that it's really, it's just in the moment. And I take it day by day and each day, okay, I don't have to worry about my dorm right now because I've already applied for housing and I can't do anything now. I just have to wait until the day and then I can worry about it. So just take it each day. And I have hope that tomorrow I'll do well at my AAPPL exam and my calc pretest. And I hope that Friday my hair will come out good. And Saturday I'll have fun at prom. I can't put too much stress on what's so far ahead of me, which I keep putting on this list even. And then I look at it and I'm like, well, it's not a problem for right now.

Justine:

I love it. So you remain hopeful.

Lydia:

I hope for tomorrow.

Justine:

So just take it one more step at the time. Nice. Lexi, what are you hopeful for?

Lexi:

I'm hopeful that I continue to just wake up every day and choose to see the good, choose to be positive, saying through things I'm grateful for every day, and really trusting in God's plan for me that I'm going to get to where I need to be.

Mark:

I'll tell you, listening to you reflect on your trip to the United Nations and how you said that just changed something in you. It brought something. I think that's a good thing to remember for us also, is sometimes we can have an experience that if we want to, we can take that experience, apply it to our foundational structure of hope, and then carry that forward, which I think you've done a great job with that.

Lydia:

And Justine, what's your hope? I know you tried to, can't go around the table and put us on the spot and then be like, no, no, I don't want to answer the question. I just asked all of you.

Justine:

I thought I nailed it.

Mark:

She started ringing her hands. I'm worried now.

Justine:

Yeah. Well, I'm hopeful that we keep having these spaces to talk about it. To remind people that it's okay when things don't work the way they're supposed to or when things happen that you weren't expected because it's not the end of it. And when I say that, also thinking about the intention of our discussions, the empowering what young women, giving the hope to girls around the world.

I just want so many people to be listening to us and to find a word, to find a story, to find anything that will get them going and taking it one step at a time. I really love that. And having your foundation and waking up, being intentional about seeing the good every day. I'm just taking it all. I'm just taking it all. So I'm hopeful, and I'm hoping that this is going to impact as many people as possible around the world as we discuss and we share our own stories, I guess. Thanks for putting me on the spot. Yeah.

Lydia:

See, that was, did you survive?

Justine:

I'll come back to you on that. I'll go back to you.

Mark:

We hope she's growing. Just so she's growing.

Justine:

I hope I survived. Yes.

Lydia:

Well, I hope you all had fun today. So thank you all for this fun conversation.

Mark:

It's an honor being here. Thanks for having me today.

Justine:

Thank you, Mark, for joining us.

Mark:

Thank you. Appreciate you all. Great women. Great strong women.

___________

Lydia:

Thanks for hanging out with us on the By Her Hands podcast. We hope you enjoyed this show and that you're leaving with a little more hope than you came with. Remember, you already carry more power than you think.

Justine:

You've been listening to the By Her Hands podcast brought to you by WaterStep. Around the world. Girls carry so much responsibility, hope, and the work of caring for their families. WaterStep equips them with tools and training that help them protect their own health, support their schools, and lead change in their communities. When girls have the tools they need, their power isn't something they search for, it is something they carry. Learn more about how girls everywhere are shaping their futures, each by her own hands. And if you want to explore more about finding hope in your own story, or giving hope to others, visit WaterStep.org.

Disclaimer:

Listeners are reminded that the ideas, opinions, and information expressed on the by her hands podcast belong solely to the guests and do not necessarily reflect the views, policies, or positions of WaterStep, its staff, partners, donors, or affiliates. This podcast is provided for informational and educational purposes only, and is not intended as professional advice of any kind. Water assumes no responsibility for actions taken based on the information provided.

For more information about WaterStep

Website: www.WaterStep.org

Episode 5: In this episode, the conversation explores the themes of pressure, perseverance, and personal growth through honest and relatable stories. The group discusses how challenges, expectations, and difficult moments can shape confidence and resilience over time. Through personal experiences, the speakers reflect on the importance of pushing through discomfort, learning from setbacks, and finding strength in supportive relationships. The dialogue also highlights the value of authenticity, self-awareness, and encouraging others through difficult seasons of life. Throughout the conversation, the guests emphasize that perseverance is not about perfection, but about continuing to move forward despite uncertainty or fear. The discussion creates a space for vulnerability while also offering encouragement to young people navigating their own struggles. Ultimately, the episode reinforces that growth often happens during the moments that test us the most.

Episode Transcript

Lydia:

Why does everything feel so heavy? Like you're carrying 10 different things at once, school, your family, your friends, your future, and some how you're supposed to handle all of it without falling apart, or at least looking like you're not falling apart. This episode is about that feeling and how we keep going even on the days we feel worn out. We get honest about pressure and what perseverance actually looks like when you're living it, not pretending

Justine:

You're listening to the By Her Hands podcast, a space where young women figure things out together, who we are, what we want, and the power we already carry. It's brought to you by WaterStep, a global leader in safe water innovation. Learn more about how women and girls are shaping healthier futures each by her own hands, at WaterStep.org.

Lexi:

Hi everyone, this is Lexi and welcome back to Episode 5 about pressure and perseverance.

Lydia:

Hey guys, it's Lydia and welcome back to the By Her Hands podcast.

Justine:

Hi everyone, this is Justine. Very happy to be here again with everyone.

Lexi:

Today we have our second global guest. Her name is Doreen and she is from Kenya. Doreen, can you introduce yourself a little bit?

Doreen:

Hi everyone. My name is Doreen. I come from Kenya, Nairobi. I have been a WaterStep volunteer for the last 12 years now. By the end of this year we'll be 12 years of volunteering with WaterStep in the field-work that we're doing with different communities across Kenya.

Lexi:

I feel like when we're talking about this idea of pressure and perseverance, pressure I feel like we can often see as an external factor, but I think sometimes it's internal too, and that's something that resonates with me the most. Lydia, do you resonate with that? Do you feel like pressure is more internal or an external factor for you?

Lydia:

I think the pressure I feel has stemmed from such a small moment in my life, all of it. It goes back to when I was in, I mean it had to have been fifth-grade and my parents were like, college is expensive and you'll have to work for scholarships. And I feel like everything has spurred from that one moment. And it's not like my parents to this day are telling me you have to do all these things to get scholarships, but it's just that pressure on myself from that moment to succeed and to push and to do everything to achieve that goal.

Lexi:

Yeah, absolutely. I feel like for me it's sort of the same thing with my parents, but it's not really my parents putting the pressure on me. It's more like the pressure I'm putting on myself sort of based on their expectations, I guess. So for me, I mean I have five brothers and a little sister and I'm, I have two older brothers and the rest are younger, but I have sort of put this burden on myself that I'm supposed to be the perfect child almost. And so I feel like this kind of brings pressure into every aspect of my life, whether it's school or college or sports or whatever it may be, but it's not my parents pressuring me to be that way. It's just more what I expect of myself and what I feel like and what I'm assuming that they expect of me. So I feel like oftentimes it can be really challenging and the only way to sort of persevere through it is just taking it one step at a time, one day at a time. Lydia, how do you persevere through that pressure?

Lydia:

I mean, I wish I had rock solid advice to give you, I mean just what you said each day, take it as it comes and I don't know, I just try not to let the fear of the future birded me too much and to let it control my life. I remember freshman year I got terrified of how I was going to afford college and a house and all these things and my future that I just had no idea. I didn't know what I wanted do. I didn't know anything. I just knew with my parents I have to go to college and I have to get a good job and I didn't even know what I wanted to do from there and it just exploded into this constant stress bubble I was in. And it was I guess to persevere through that. I really just kind of popped the bubble and I just stopped letting those thoughts control me. I just started taking it each day as it came and taking each problem as it occurs and not stressing and stressing for the future. Not that it's bad to plan, but just it was harming me more than it was doing good. Justine, what do you think?

Justine:

I think you guys all right. I think that it's one thing to look at pressure and perseverance as being bad or not healthy or hindering you. Another way to look at it's that it takes us further. It opens up horizons for us because as we persevere, we find a way to deal with pressure. And I want to say it's the story of my life. Being a woman raised with certain expectations. Where you are expected to get married, to have children, to take care of your family, yet the person that I am being ambitious had to take on that pressure to understand the expectations but also to persevere so that you can do something for yourself as well as managing the pressure and expectations of everyone. So Lexi, you mentioned something around pressure and perseverance, being external, internal, and I think that that's really what it comes down to. Which one is external and which one is internal? And I find that it's like a fight, a constant fight as we go through life. So you get pressure and I want to say that the pressure is external, as far as my experience, and we go deep into ourselves to find that spark of perseverance, of strength, of everything we've already talked about, courage to keep pushing so that you turn that thing into a positive. And for me that's really what it is about the pressure and the pressure that I'm still feeling, right?

It's a factor into being able to push through and listen to your own dreams so that you have a balance between what everyone is expecting from you and what you want for yourself in my world, in my professional profession, in how I tackle things. Yeah, so I think listening to all of you in every single space that we are, there's always a need to persevere, but the question is would you do it if you don't have a pressure, right? If you don't feel the pressure, would you be persevering? So yeah, Lexi, I think that's what it is.

Lexi:

Absolutely. I think we often see pressure and perseverance as sort of a bad thing, especially pressure. It's like nobody wants pressure, but I think at the end of the day it means that you have something good ahead of you. You have the pressure to be able to be in this space. You have something to look forward to. You have expectations of yourself or people have expectations of you. And yes, there is pressure that comes with it, but it's that pressure that I feel like makes you work 10 times harder. And I think also I think as girls and women, we're sort of with this pressure afraid to fail. So we sort of sit in this in-between and sort of not try to tip the scale too much one way because we don't want to not succeed. We're supposed to be expected to do well and everything else. So is there a time where you guys felt like you didn't do something or you were just in this fear because you were afraid to fail?

Lydia:

Lexi, that was beautiful and I so totally relate to that. And I mean I've talked about this so many times now, but it really just had that much of an impact on me is being the only girl in the room and how much harder you have to work. How much harder I feel this is all in my head, but I feel like I have to work to prove that I have the right to be there and that I can succeed and do the same things as every other guy in this room. And I remember it's as little as in my STEM Club when I was in middle school and elementary and we would do these paper bridge things and making towers out of mushrooms, marshmallows and spaghetti straws. And I just felt like if I messed up and if I did something wrong as a girl in this room, then everyone's going to make fun of me because I'm the only girl in here and I can't do it. And if I can't win, then why am I here?

Lydia:

Doreen, have you felt something like this?

Doreen:

Thank you Lydia. Thank you Lexi. I can relate to your pressure. And more specifically to Justine. Having grown up in African communities, there's a lot of pressure from women and girls especially on wanting them to succeed, to be the role model in the society. There is that societal aspect and expectations of us as women and girls growing in those communities. I want to share a personal story, more of myself and what really happens in my community. I come from come Kenya and more in Meru county. Meru county is one of the counties for seven counties in Kenya. I to be the fourth born in a family of five, so with two elder sisters and my mother was a teacher. And we're expected to participate in the economic upbringing and also the pressure of maintaining a family and a home and land. And at that point you to go to school, you have to go and do domestic chores for the family.

You have to go to farm, all that you're being looked at as a girl and having two boys in a family, even if my mom came in and at this point and the utensils have not been done, she would not ask my brother. She would just ask me just because I'm a girl, we're all in the same family, we all have the same responsibilities, but she expects me, Doreen, to be the one doing the cleanup, making sure everyone, everyone has eaten and whatever needs to be done is being looked at as a girl. And then there comes the issue of the society and the menstruation management for the young girls. First, there is a lot of stigmatization around the topic of the menstrual, especially you cannot talk openly about your menstrual cycle as a girl. First you can't go to your father and say, I need some money to buy the sanitary pants or sanitary wares. That one, you have to either talk to your elder sister or you talk to your mom.

But in an African society where I come from, that is not a priority. It's a taboo to discuss it openly. That brings a lot of pressure now as young girl, to whom do I share this challenge with? At times you find it has been left to the teachers in the school. And if your teacher is not close to you, they may not even be able to you on water do. Then is the issue of water and sanitation. You find yourself at that time you're on your menstrual periods and then there is no clean sanitation. There's no privacy. The toilets are communal, you are sharing. It kind of brings some shame. You want to hide, so you don't want anyone to know what you're going through that you're on your period. So you're looking for ways now to maneuver. There's that pressure you want to hide, you don't to class, you don't do anything at home. You just want to keep underground.

And then the society, they're looking up to you for other activities at home. So as a woman, as a girl growing up in those African society, it's really pressure and personally some of those experiences I have gone through. And then therefore it gave me the motivation as Doreen to really want to succeed. I wanted to work even as a young girl, I wanted to be a nurse. I didn't want to be an academia. I found myself in the field of academics and this moment I'm wondering how did I head up being in the academic and not in the nursing area where I really wanted to do?

Justine:

Doreen, this is such a revelation moment for me, for you to be able to have gone through it and be able to talk about it. Would you say that it's because of the pressure that you lived through, that you were able to step up? And how did you do it? What made you keep going while you were feeling the pressure as yourself, but also transferring it the girls around you?

Doreen:

I really wanted to succeed. I really wanted to change the society I'm in. I wanted that stigma (to change) because it was not something that is discussed openly. I wanted a society where girls can talk about it, the boys can support the girls, the sisters. I mean now I'm the same house with my brother, but I'm learning from him that he doesn't know I'm on my period. So I really wanted a society where the boys are coming in, the men are coming in to support the girl children who have this pressure and also to support in whichever way. That gave me a motivation to pursue more, to talk more about it and to really, really persevere. Keep on going, working hard towards improving myself and also getting the girls around me to come on board.

Justine:

You're being very humble, Doreen honestly, because I know you, we are all inspired by the work that you do at with WaterStep, but also in your community. Tell us this pressure that you lived and how you actually needed such an impactful and beautiful thing around you. I know you're being humble. You're being so...you want to go under the radar, but the schools that you work with, the girls, the pressure that they live in because you know what it is your perseverance. Can you tell us more about what it did to the schools?

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Before we continue with our episode, let me take a minute to remind you that by her hands is a global program empowering women and girls through safe water access, menstrual health management and economic opportunity. The program and this podcast are brought to you by WaterStep. Together, we believe that when a young woman can protect her own health, she leads. When she leads, her family thrives. And when her family thrives, her whole community grows stronger. Learn more about how women and girls are shaping healthier futures each by her own hands, at WaterStep.org.

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Doreen:

It was not easy and it's not easy. And at the moment, remember there is the aspect of stigmatization. What are you talking about? Why can't you see this one is women affairs, you don't have to bring it on board with the girls.

So one of the things that really made me want to pursue this was a time in school and I walked to a class and I found boys laughing at a girl. She had messed up. She was on her period. She had messed up her dress and she felt that that was the hint. She didn't want to come back to school. She wanted to commit suicide because that's something shameful. No one wants be associated with someone with being laughed around in the school. So that was a motivation for me to and to bring peer mentorship to the schools. It has not been easy. It's not easy. We keep on pushing. At times, you go to some schools and they really don't want to open up their doors for you. You keep on pushing, pushing, pushing. And after a month you write a letter, you tell them we still want to visit you. So there's been someone pushing, pushing and pushing. Yes.

Lexi:

I'm curious, Doreen, how do you feel like this changed you having to see other girls go through this and having to go through it yourself and how do you feel like maybe the initial way that you dealt with it has changed over time into sort of where you are now and helping these other girls face the shame that they feel? Do you feel like you felt defeated at first, and then that now motivated you or sort of how did it shape you?

Doreen:

See, I grew up in Kenya. We mostly live in our villages. Then maybe as I progressed with my education, I moved to the city. Then over the holidays, I happened to go to my rural home and I found the same situation is still happening. There is no provision for sanitary towels. The girls expect them to do 1, 2, 3 in their community and also to take care of their families. And it brought back the memories of when I was growing up, the things that we had to go through. I went to elder sisters, but it was not easy. It was not a conversation that we could have on table, sharing on what we're going through. So I didn't felt for me, I needed and that's why it was a turning point for me to go to do community work apart from being in the academia. That's where it was a turning point for me to join the community work. And then when WaterStep came in in 2014, when it was introduced to us, I praised it, because it gave me a platform to go back to my society and then help bring out these issues in the community through a small group of girls. Even you get these two or three, it's a milestone. It's a change that I felt I'm doing some impactful work to them.

Lydia:

Doreen, that is incredible. And I feel like here where I live, girls kind of have, it's not nearly on that same level, but we still have that stigma of kind of don't talk about your period and don't talk to a guy about it and that they don't know anything. And there's a really funny story of one of my friends who is like, why do girls need tampons? Can't they just hold it in? And of course, everybody laughed at him and thought it was funny. But it's still just that reminder of the difference between how people just don't talk about, people still don't talk about women's health management and what happens. It's a regular part of life. How do you think, what can I do in my town to stop this and bring more to shed more light on menstrual health and fight that stigma about not talking about it.

Doreen:

Lydia, thank you for your input. I think one of the things that can be done maybe is having peer to peer conversations. Having young girls talk to other young girls on menstrual cycle and again having also to bring on the male child on board. Apart from being the men that they have, they have also that responsibility to take care of the young girls. To show them at least some sort of love and kindness. And again, having an economic empowerment even to the women because if they were to choose between buying sanitary towels and buying food and paying school fees, they'll go for food and school fees. Sanitary towels will become the list in their basket. So it's a conversation relay that needs to be kept on moving and to bring everyone on board. Justine, what are your thoughts on that?

Justine:

Well this is really speaking up to me, especially the question that Lydia you asked. But a quick one, Doreen, I relate so much to what everything you shared and just focusing on the menstrual health management. It is something that is really affecting millions of girls' lives around the world and especially in some undeserved area. And if you don't know it, all of you listening, please, you can join us, you can join, you can check it out on WaterStep. But so we're talking about pressure and perseverance and something as simple for most of us, it's just changing the lives of so many girls. So I really wanted to acknowledge that. Now Lydia, your question and around what you can do, what any of us can do? I think as a mom of three boys, I'm putting pressure on myself to do something about it because most of the challenges that we find is either because of the lack of awareness or just plain simple meanness, being mean, but it's mostly coming from boys and men.

And sometimes my question is why? The first solution and what I do on a daily basis is to share, to communicate and to teach them, right? I'm the only woman in my family obviously, but I'm not shy to talk about it with them. And I think I'm so proud of the boys because they're not shy anymore to ask questions about this. And I think that if we get to that level where we can open up about issues that are specific to girls and women and they are putting pressure on them just because they're the only one going through it, I believe that we will have helped a lot more. Right?

So talking about it not just to girls. I agree the peer support because some of us are going through some pressure through some things, but also we need to talk to boys and men and dads, dads and brothers and cousins and friends. You got to be comfortable talking about it, because it's just natural. So yeah, Doreen, that's really what I think about it. You can see I'm very passionate. Yeah. Lexi, what would you want to do about that? What do you think you can do about that? What should do about that?

Lexi:

I think we absolutely need to bring boys and men into the conversation. I go to an all-girls school and I had a pads and tampons drive last school year and there's what, 400, maybe 600 people at my school. And we collected maybe 20 items. It was nothing. And this is an all-girls school collecting menstrual products for girls. It's just something that you think would be an obvious successful collection drive. And it was very much not just because one, boys don't want to talk about it and they're not educated about it. And two, I mean even the shame that girls feel talking about it, even here. And I did the drive through another organization, RAK, Random Acts of Kindness around Louisville, and it's a man who leads it, Andrew Dunn, and he is very much positive about menstruation products and he was the one that initiated that drive. So we need more. Every single time he talks about it, he places a big emphasis on it. Even though rack's focus is not menstruation products, it is actually food insecurity, but it's one of his big focuses because he knows it's the need even in Louisville and obviously globally too. And so I think we need more men that are willing to speak about it just like he is and be a part of the conversation and be willing to listen to the women and get educated about it because it's a societal issue.

It puts shame on the women and it affects the society as a whole. So I think if we're not including the men to be a part of the conversation, then we're not really fixing the root of the problem.

Justine:

Thank you. That's inspiring, right? I'm listening to you and I'm just like 20 items on an all-girls campus? I think that as much as we want to target men and boys and put the point the finger, we also have to clean our own house as girls and women.

Doreen, is any of what we shared here familiar what has worked for you and listening and acknowledging the fact that we definitely have different realities. What has been very successful for you? What has your perseverance and the pressure that you felt and you know that the other girls and your community is feeling? What has it achieved and that you want to share with us so that it's also something we can learn from.

Doreen:

The sanitary issue and menstruation brings a lot of pressure even to all the girls. That is the key driving point of any pressure in the family, because at times you find when we have an economically challenged household, the first thing that they'll go for is a meal, not the sanitary towels. So it brings the girls to the issue that they have to look for the sanitary for themselves and therefore that makes them look for an alternative. An alternative means to maintain themselves during that period and therefore they get a hygiene pad and that causes infections for them. So the issue, it's only keeping the conversation going on and on and on. Even through the churches, we need to sensitize more on the community that we lived in. And that is one of the things that has worked for me since bringing awareness to the community that I live and work with.

I'll give an example of where last year, around October, we went with some of the team members for WaterStep to a community that women are really not supposed to mix with men. And during that time we had some sanitary towels that we bought for the girls and we wanted to bring some kind of education to them and then distribute the towels. And then at one point, one of the ladies told us, you can't talk about this here when the men are here. And I told them we have to do it so we have to do it. And they told us for them, it's a taboo to speak about that when the men are there. So what we did is we requested the chief, at least he was a man, we requested him to stay with the girls. And then I made sure my team, I was the only lady from the WaterStep, the rest were men. I work with men most of the time. I make sure they stay and join the conversation. And from there, even them you can see the questions that they were asking. It really shows that there is a gap that needs to be addressed even in terms of the education that we're giving to our girls in our community. Yeah, that's my take.

Justine:

Thank you, Doreen. It's definitely a community effort and as much as we're talking about menstrual health management and the issues, I think that Lydia mentioned being alone, the only female or the only girl in a room, especially with her STEM class. And I think the example that we shared today around the specificities of menstrual health management to girls can apply to all the areas that we girls find ourselves in. What do you think Lydia, is there anything that you thought you can push through to lessen the pressure that you feel?

Lydia:

I think maybe to just own it is kind of what I've done. And I found other girls in the class who understand and we had, our town has a thing called "pumpkin chunkin'" where you launch pumpkins across a field with homemade trebuchets, catapult thingies. And we had our very first all-girls team go there. We were just girls who had been put together, naturally formed a bond because we were the only girls in those classes. And just to own it, yeah, we're a minority in this field and in this area, but we deserve to be here. And there's a reason that we are. And I hope that we can have that mentality not just about STEM, but also about menstruation and just to be like, yeah, this is a natural part of life and it's what happens and yeah, it's what it's, and it shouldn't be anything with a bad stigma around it or something you don't talk about and taboo something that Doreen, like you said, to be made fun of for, but just a natural part of life. That's it.

Lexi:

Absolutely. I think sort of what I'm hearing, one of my takeaways is that pressure can be external, like Doreen expressed from her societal and the community placing this taboo on menstruation. But it can also be internal like this shame that the girls feel. And sometimes it's controllable and sometimes it's not. And I think how we persevere through that is owning it, not being afraid to fail and really forming community with one another and empowering other girls through that. What are your all's takeaways from this conversation?

Justine:

I agree with you. I agree with you and I love how while Lydia reminded us that we need to own it, right? There's nothing to do about it. There's nothing wrong with it. We deserve it, we take it. The other thing I really learned from listening to all of you, Doreen your story is that our pressure and perseverance should be used, right? The pressure that we feel and the lesson learned and the path that we took and the journey that was in front of us. We need to use it to inspire you. We need to use it to act. We need to use it to care for others because we always have to remember that no matter how tough the pressure is, and no matter how much we have to push through, there's always someone that is going through the same thing, if not worse. Listening to them or telling them what we feel could help us. So speaking up, caring it, owning it and not being afraid. Those are my takeaways. What do you think Lydia?

Lydia:

Doreen, what you said really, really has stuck with me about the girl who messed up her dress and was being bullied and wanted to commit suicide. That hurts. And it's painful to imagine that girls are going through that and I think it's just a reminder for the ladies listening just to stick out for one another. And even the little things, if you see somebody and they have something on their dress, be like, Hey, just so you know, you've got a little stain. Or to offer your sweater to wrap around their waist and just to give grace and remember to stick out for one another. And then also just to educate the boys and just that is not okay and not acceptable and shouldn't be just an aspect of life and an aspect of being a girl is to be bullied for a natural part of life. So I think that really reminded me how important it's on both sides to try and make it just to make it normal. Lexi, what are you thinking?

Lexi:

Absolutely. I think boys need to be a part of the conversation and I think Doreen's example of that, and it seemed like she had success with that was amazing of how she was told the men in the room, no, you're going to stay for this extra part of the conversation. Doreen, what did you feel like happened after you sort of made them stay and be a part of that conversation? What do you feel like came of that?

Doreen:

Thank you, Lexi, Justine, and Lydia. One of the outcomes is that I realized they also have some information that they didn't know about, that they want to there, that curiosity to learn more about the menstrual cycle management. Having said that, when we get the support for menstrual management hygiene, we'll improve the hygiene of the girls and they'll be in school, reduce issues of infections. And also I love the education. We won't have them missing out on school sometimes they miss three to five days. So we'll have them in school and their education will be uninterrupted and also restore the dignity of the woman and the girl at lunch. They'll be dignifying individuals in our society. And that's my take for now and thank you.

Lexi:

Awesome. Thank you Doreen. And thank you Lydia and Justine for this conversation today, specifically during coming all the way from us, from Kenya. I think this conversation has taught us that pressure can be shaped to be a positive force. It can be used to give us motivation to invite others to the table, invite others to the conversation, give us confidence and empower one another to just own it. The example of menstruation just owning it as a woman, and I think that just sort of encapsulates this whole theme of pressure and persevering through it together.

Lydia:

Thank you. Thank you. And Doreen, thank you so much for joining us and for what you're doing.

Doreen:

Yeah, I just wanted to thank you. This was my first time. I look forward to doing more shows with you. Thank you.

Lexi:

Thank you. You did amazing. Thank you for sharing your story. We really appreciate it.

------------

Lydia:

Thanks for being here with us on the By Her Hands podcast. We hope this episode made the pressure in your life feel a little more manageable. Remember, you already carry more power than you think.

Justine:

You've been listening to the By Her Hands podcast brought to you by WaterStep. Around the world. Girls carry so much responsibility, hope, and the work of caring for their families. WaterStep equips them with tools and training that help them protect their own health, support their schools, and lead change in their communities. When girls have the tools they need, their power isn't something they search for, it is something they carry. Learn more about how girls everywhere are shaping their futures, each by her own hands. And if you want to relieve the pressure of other women and girls around the world and help them persevere, visit WaterStep.org.

Disclaimer:

Listeners are reminded that the ideas, opinions, and information expressed on the by her hands podcast belong solely to the guests and do not necessarily reflect the views, policies, or positions of WaterStep, its staff, partners, donors, or affiliates. This podcast is provided for informational and educational purposes only, and is not intended as professional advice of any kind. Water assumes no responsibility for actions taken based on the information provided.

For more information about WaterStep

Website: www.WaterStep.org

Episode 4: In this episode, the conversation centers around how small actions and seemingly insignificant moments can have a lasting impact on our lives. The group explores the idea of the "butterfly effect," sharing personal stories about kindness, taking risks, and unexpected opportunities that shaped their paths. From simple acts like inviting someone to sit at lunch or offering encouragement, to saying yes to new experiences, each story highlights how meaningful change often starts small. The discussion also touches on cultural differences, personal growth, and the balance between technology and human connection. Throughout the dialogue, the speakers emphasize the importance of being present, following your instincts, and supporting others. They reflect on how kindness and connection build confidence and community over time. Ultimately, the episode reinforces that nothing we do is truly small when it comes to impacting others.

Episode Transcript

Lydia:

It's kind of ridiculous how the smallest things stick with you. Not the big problems, the tiny stuff: someone's tone, a friend taking forever to text back, or that one random comment that wasn't even meant to be deep but your brain is like, "Great, let's replay that all day." Those can hurt and be confusing.

But what about those little moments that turn into something else? A realization, a decision or the sense that you need to do something differently. It can feel like a quiet nudge to take back control. These are the small moments that can end up shaping how you think, what you care about, and the choices you make next.

In today's episode we'll explore these questions. What if you don't need more time, more confidence or more permission? What if it doesn't matter where you live or whether you're a girl? What if starting something small is actually the point? What if that's how real change begins? It's someone deciding they're not too young, not too small, and not powerless, after all.

Justine:

You're listening to the By Her Hands Podcast, A space where young women figure things out together, who we are, what we want, and the power we already carry. It's brought to you by WaterStep, a global leader in safe water innovation. Learn more about how women and girls are shaping healthier futures, each by her own hands, at WaterStep.org.

Lydia:

Lexi, do you know what the "butterfly effect" is?

Lexi:

Isn't it the thing where everything happens for a reason?

Lydia:

Kind of. So, the butterfly effect is the idea that I very firmly believe in where every little thing you do has some sort of effect on your life. And there's an episode of my favorite TV show where all he does is save a butterfly and the entire town sets on fire. Every little action leads to some sort of, it changes your life and your life trajectory. I'm a firm believer in the butterfly effect. My mom doesn't believe it as much. I tell her in the mornings, I have a tardy problem. Let's be real. I'm a senior. Senioritis is bad. I've had senioritis since sophomore year. The minute, you know what? The minute I walked into my high school freshman year, I had senioritis. But let me tell you my attendance, I figured out the system, but they still get me sometimes. But I tried to tell my mom, it's okay. It's the butterfly effect.

If I had left the house on time, maybe I would've gotten in a car accident on the way to school, maybe, I don't know. Something could have caught on fire. Maybe the dog would've gotten out. I don't know. You have no idea. And I mean, it's not like I'm wrong, so you should be grateful that I even just made it to school at all. I also got voted worst driver of my senior class, so she really should be grateful that I made it to school at all. I've got a bad record, so I really don't understand why she doesn't see it the way I do that at least I made it and my decision to be late could have saved my life. What do you think?

Lexi:

Yeah, absolutely. I mean I think no, truly, I think everything happens for a reason. I mean, even me being here at WaterStep, it all started with the fifth-grade project. I mean, I was so young. They told us, it was called our exhibition project and they told us pick a United Nations school and then pick a nonprofit organization and try to create some sort of partnership with them and create a project. And so I was like, okay. And so I got recommended WaterStep next day. I know I'm on a Zoom call with Mark Hogg, the CEO.

Lydia:

What a guy.

Lexi:

Yeah, I am like fifth-grade on this Zoom call trying to act professional and everything.

Lydia:

I'm sure that Zoom call was like four hours long.

Lexi:

Oh, it was, but I love him. He was very, very inspiring and really taught me about the whole safe water crisis. And I, to be honest at this point, had probably no knowledge about it. And then I did a shoe drive because that's how they made a lot of their funding. And then he was like, you want to join the Teen Board? And I was like, all right, sure. The power of saying yes right there. And then since then I have been on the Teen Board and am now co-presidents with Lydia. We are loving it. We are walking it. We just did a 5K, but I don't know, it was crazy how such a small moment and I was just so young and didn't really even know what I was getting myself into as turned into what it has now and really developed my passion for safe water, and for women and girls specifically. So I think it is so awesome how something so small turned into something so impactful on my life.

Justine:

We're really happy to welcome a new guest today. Z, would you like to introduce yourself?

Z:

Hi, my name is Zainab. I prefer to go by Z and I'm a sophomore.

Lexi:

Z, do you have a story to share or something small that had an impact on you like that?

Z:

Yes, so I'll start with what happened to me back in my country. It's really such a memory.

Justine:

When you say your country, what do you mean?

Z:

I mean Ghana.

Justine:

Okay.

Z:

Back at home in Ghana, there's this one phone policy that we have here in Jefferson County, obviously, but I want to hit the point that it's really amazing how I have moved from not being cool with phone to being cool with phone now, although I'm not very comfortable with it still now. So back in my country we have this, you'll not see a kid with phone holding phone just texting or Instagram or anything. You'll not see that. It's not common in my country, especially being in middle school. It's not at all common.

But when I came here to the USA, it's really blown my mind to expecting how I see in the hallway, students holding phones, everyone busy with phones, using AI and all that. It was mostly going with traditional way. You were either paper or pen or paper and pencil. You cannot get away with coming to school with a phone. No, no one even liked bringing their phone to school. You have, even if you had a phone and I just got my phone. I think that was this freshman year. Yeah, I just got my phone, my first phone, which I'm using.

Lydia:

Congratulations. Thank you. It's a big step. I mean, yeah, and it's funny you say that because I'm picturing the four year olds I see in restaurants with the giant iPads and that's every day here. That is my sister. That's how you raise kids.

Lexi:

That's my sister. Actually, I have a four-year little sister and she loves her big iPad watching shows all the time. So…

Z:

My 14-year-old sister still doesn't have a phone. My dad is like, if you pass your eighth-grade year, you're going to get a phone.

Lydia:

Yeah, I got one eighth-grade year and I was actually the last person in my grade to get a phone was being in eighth-grade. I had a Kindle fire before then, which is still technically technology, but I got ice cream in the charger port, so it doesn't really count because once it died it was dead. So I kind of had a phone.

Justine:

This is so interesting. I'm thinking I'm listening to you, Z, and I'm thinking, okay, wow, something so small a phone, right? That's already in everybody's life for you. A year ago you were already were very surprised by that. What was the difference for you coming from an environment in Ghana where you didn't have a phone to now being with your phone every day, even at school, what was the impact? How do you see it now and is there anything, would you wish for it to change back in your home country or would you rather have that aspect of your experience in Ghana coming back here? I'm curious to know.

Z:

That's a really good question though. So a really big difference that's hitting me right now is being able to, that transformation was really quick. I feel like it's really quick and I thought is there environment that I'm in that's changing me? And the negative impact will probably be right now I feel like I'm obsessed with my phone too much.

Lexi:

Yes. We all relate.

Z:

Yeah, especially with those apps. Instagram and TikTok, although I don't use TikTok, but I feel like maybe we got to take a step back and think about it. We're still kids. We're growing up. It's good that we have technology, there's positive and negatives towards that, but as I'm looking at it, I feel like there's more positive towards it. You going traditional way, you think about it, back in the olden days, they didn't have phones, didn't come until later on they were using paper and pencil. Look at how many inventions they've made that we're able to use now. But looking at now, okay, there are some inventions that some people are making, but it's not too much. You got to take a step back, go back to your traditional way, use your brain, step away from AI, try to, yeah…

Justine:

She said AI.

Lydia:

No, I'm really proud to have never used AI on an assignment that is my big flex and the big 2026 as a senior in high school never AI'd an assignment. Well, okay, okay. So if I get stuck on a math problem, I might take a picture of it and be like, so what's going on here Google? And sometimes you know what? Google gets calc wrong. So yeah, AI isn't perfect. Let me tell you.

Justine:

The other thing I like about it is that as you were talking, I was thinking, okay, well we don't have phones. There is more connection. Maybe we are more sensitive to listening to seeing people around us and being more aware of some impacts that we have. What do you think, Lexi, thinking about your story with how you started with a small project in fifth-grade and then now you end up in being part of improving the world with WaterStep, did you think that just being part of that or having a discussion could have impacted you in a way where you feel like you're making positive changes around you?

Lexi:

Yeah, I mean I feel like could have, I mean never imagined that this is to the point it would bring me, but I definitely over time and as I got older, I saw the importance of just saying yes, having those conversations, meeting those people, building your network. It all adds up and you never know where it's going to get you. And most of the time you're going to be surprised and you're going to look back and be like, wow, I'm really, really glad I did that. And WaterStep is most definitely one of those big moments for me, but started as something so small. So I am absolutely grateful for that.

Justine:

Before we continue with our episode, let me take a minute to remind you that By Her Hands is a global program empowering women and girls through safe-water access, menstrual health management and economic opportunity. The program and this podcast are brought to you by WaterStep. Together, we believe that when a young woman can protect her own health, she leads, when she leads her family thrives and when her family thrives, her whole community grows stronger. Learn more about how women and girls are shaping healthier futures, each by her own hands, at WaterStep.org.

Lydia:

And I get that because back in our first episode I talked to, we talked about purpose and I talked about how I felt like my purpose was kind of to serve and I found that through, Z this is fun for you to hear, I found that through a very messy, not even messy, I was just an emotional 15-year-old and I was going through a breakup and that's it. That's the whole story. My whole tragic tale is a boy broke up with me.

Lexi:

It's why she's at WaterStep.

Lydia:

And then I got sad and I was like, I need something to fill my time. And so I ended up doing WaterStep and now I'm sitting here across the table from some awesome people and next to some awesome people too. Justine, don't worry, I did not leave you out even though you're not across from me.

Justine:

Thank you.

Lydia:

I'm currently padding her on the arm, because I have to give audio descriptions. But anyway, and another funny thing is because I did my WaterStep shoe drive, I became friends with my school counselor who does all sorts of nonprofit things in my area. And he got me on the Youth Philanthropy Council and I've done a whole bunch of things to them and I've met the LYPC and Z, you're part of the LYPC. And so everybody's connected, I feel. And just that small thing has changed so much. But when I heard that the topic was something, Nothing Is Small, I wanted to talk about just I feel like what comes to my mind is kindness. No act of kindness is small. And I remember I went from a private school to a public school. My grade was 24 and it is now 404. So pretty big culture shock I would say.

And I remember being terrified of making friends and dead set on, I can't, I'm not going to, I have only have friends at this school because I've known them all since I was four. And going into this new school, everyone's going to have their own groups. I'm never going to talk to anybody. And this girl just came up to me and was so sweet. She was just so sweet and grace, she invited me to sit at her lunch table and to hang out with her and go to the games with her. She told me about all her drama. She told me about her friends, the advice of the kids in our grade, all of everything I needed to know. I didn't go to middle school with any of them. And to this day we are still best friends and I go to visit her at her job and me and everybody at her job are best friends too.

And I really owe, I think my high school success to her because she just came up to me and was so kind. And she was so confident in her kindness. She wasn't sitting there thinking, well, do I really want to talk to her? She came up and all smiles and just lovely and it changed. I'm naturally an extrovert. I'm sure you all can tell from how I talk. I'm not a very shy person. But going into that new school, I was terrified. Terrified and dead silent. And I was like, I have to be prim and proper and wear makeup and not move or say anything or have any opinions. And this girl just opened my shell. And I really think that nothing is small and no act of kindness is small and can just change somebody's life like that. Have you all experienced anything like that?

Z:

Yeah, I have experienced something very, very similar to that. But mine started with when I first moved from Ghana to here, my first middle school, which was my first middle school. So I entered the hallway, the teacher, she took me to the hallway. I was like, wow, what the what?

Lydia:

Because I say I'm complaining about going from Catholic school to public and you're going from Ghana to the United States. That's a big difference.

Z:

I also went to a private school before I moved to here.

So I was in the hallway as I said, what the what? So I just stood there, a big, very big hallway. I was like, never seen something like this before. Class went by, everything went by until gym class. Gym class. We get to gym two girls, this one guy, he still goes to school with me. He's standing there. He was playing this one game and then these two girls, they're making fun of him. I was like, what? If you are in my state coming from a whole different country, you're going to, exactly. You see them in movies. That's what I see. Yeah, I see them first I think bully. So after gym class, he was going my way the same way I was going. So I was like, don't listen to whatever they say, just be yourself. And that moment, because I have seen those things in movies, I didn't really believe in that. I was like, what did I just do?

Lydia:

You were the hero.

Z:

Exactly. I didn't even think of that until I went. And then I saw him this high school, I just saw him. He was like, thank you for what you did. I was like, wow. That act of kindness that I showed, which I thought was nothing to them has been carried away through all those years to him. And now he's thanking me. I was like, wow.

Lydia:

That's incredible.

Z:

Yeah.

Justine:

That's incredible. Absolutely. And what I love about that is that you are staying true to yourself and also Lydia, the story you were sharing with us, it's about following your instincts. It's about knowing that something better could be done and doing it. And it's just powerful for me. Lexi, do you have anything like that? Any story that you want to share?

Lexi:

Yeah, I would say going into high school, I played field hockey and it was picture day, so we're in our uniforms and everything and I'm on the freshman team and I have an older brother, he's two years older. And so these older girls come up to me and they're like, oh, do you want to get a picture? We love your brother. And so it was as simple as them talking to me, making that interaction, taking that picture. It made me feel seen and special and I don't know, just included. And so, from there it clicked that even these girls that were two years older than me in high school and they could have easily brushed me off and not said anything, showed me kindness. And it's truly that simple. And it really did change my whole day and whole outlook on that team. So it was really a positive experience.

Lydia:

My experience my junior year. Okay, this isn't as like, I don't know, this changed me. Let me let me tell you. Junior year I'm feeling great. Sixth-period I'm like, oh my gosh, I feel terrible. I'm going to throw up. I'm like, I feel horrible and I'm going to throw up, run in the hallway, throw up in a trash can in the hallway. I had never thrown up in school ever. And I was real proud of it. I was always the kid who was like, I don't feel well. I'm going to go home. And the minute I get home, I throw up, I hold it in. So I'm throwing up in the hallway and I am disgusted with myself. I can't believe it. It's in a trash can. Let's be clear here. This random girl comes up and starts patting my back. I've never talked to this girl, but she pulls back my hair and she's like, it's okay.

And I'm tearing up. I hate throwing up. Nobody likes it. But when I was little and we didn't know I was gluten-free, I used to throw up all the time and we had no idea why. So I have PTSD when I started knowing I'm going to throw up, but yeah, she just pulled back my hair and rubbed my back and she went in the bathroom and got me a little wet rag to wipe off my vomit-mouth. And it was just so sweet. If I saw someone thrown up in the hallway, I would've thrown up. I would've been like, no, no, I got to get out of here. I can't do it because sensitive like that, you know what, it's vomit. And that's really gross. And I think it's fair for me to want to run away if someone's throwing up. I don't think that's crazy.

But yeah, she just came up to me, never seen or talked to this girl and would just pat my back and helped me out. And at the bell she kind of walked me out and turns out I was very sick and I got real weak and lightheaded and had to be picked up, because I usually drive to school. But yeah, I haven't talked to her since. I never caught her name. But anytime I see her, I just give her the biggest smile and I want to salute her. And if I'm valedictorian by some miracle, which is not happening, it's too late in senior year, then my speech will be to the girl who held my hair when I threw up in AP US history, thank you. Thank you very much. Wow. I thought about that story on my way here and I was like, I'm not going to tell that that's gross. And then I just had to I'm sorry. Sorry if anybody's sensitive to vomit.

Lexi:

We are good. We're good. I'm glad.

Justine:

But that also shows how impactful it was for you, right? Because even though you plan on not telling us the story, you ended up telling us the story, but you still thought about it. But for me listening to all the stories, when you guys are in high school, you are already building your relationships, you are building your experience and you're discovering who you are. It just reminds me of the time where I set up a woman group in my workplace. I was the leader there and there was always that distance between the other women, co-workers and myself. So we ended up chatting and I ended up just being in a habit of visiting the teams and just pulling all the women aside.

And one time one of them came to me and she looked at me, she said, Justine, you have no idea what you're doing because you're up there. We're looking at you. We just expect you to just give us instructions and what to do in our job. But then, you came up to us as women just sharing the same concerns and worries. And it made a big difference because then we realize that the struggle that we are going through, mainly between balancing your work life, your work and your life, it's not something that is just because you're not a leader, it's just something that you carry with you. And having that opportunity to share those concerns with all the other women, it just gives us that confidence and the sense of being part of a group where we can with one word, just address something that happened to you or to any of us in any day. And listening to you guys, I realize that everywhere we are, whether it's in our family at school, at work, or just stopping by to look at someone who's dealing or going through something, I just feel like it's important. It's always important to get up in the morning and realize that it doesn't matter what is happening around me. If I can be kind, I would be doing something small that is actually not small for anyone around me. What about you, Z? Is there anything small that is making your day around you?

Z:

Anything small? I mean this is not small, but it's making up my day since you told me last, the first time you told me about this, it just made my whole entire month because I've never done a podcast. And being able to sit here and speak out what I've been keeping to myself speaking that out, you never know who it could inspire. You're inspiring everyone every time. And that comes to that quote that my teacher always says, every time when we're about to get out of class, he always says, you are worth it and you matter. It is such like some few words, he's like six words you can write on a paper just quick. But looking at it, it has such this deep meaning where if you keep it, you really know what you're going to do and you can figure out who you are. I myself, I've never had a teacher tell me such a thing every time, every day, just, "Goodbye. Have a good day." Okay, yeah, that's good. But having someone care about you saying you are worth it, you matter. It's like they just gave you themselves. It's like a father looking out to this kid every single time they're sleeping. Is this feeling that gives you motivation every single time, every single period, every single second is really wonderful. And I like to pass it on. So anyone listening, you are worth it and you matter, in every second.

Lydia:

That's beautiful.

Z:

Yes.

Lydia:

That was beautiful. I think it's such a simple quote, but I mean if it impacts you, that's why he says it's somebody needs to hear that.

Lexi:

My school actually says a very similar thing. I mean they have it quoted somewhere, but it is along the same lines of you matter, you are more than enough, you are loved. And they say it to us every single Friday, my principal normally says it, and it's really, really impactful if you just stop and take a second.

Lydia:

I mean, I had a sub who said, stay frosty. Does that count? She would bring penguin stuffed animals into class and be like, stay frosty guys. That comes from my love of penguins. I miss her man. Yeah. Does that count? Yeah, it stay frosty. Everybody stay frosty.

Z:

I actually just did a project in that same class about frosty.

Lydia:

Seriously? Yeah. She would bring this penguin, she's like, this is frosty. And she would write on the board, stay frosty. And I mean, I love this woman and she had pink and blue hair. It was great. It was just great.

Z:

So some takeaways I'll say will be probably knowing that you always have people to look up to you, to look out for. So this really stands out to me because I'm someone who's very private. Every small thing, I'm like, no, we're not sharing this. Anything that happens even if it's big. I'm like, no, we're not sharing this. Even to my parents. I think that's just in my blood, I guess. So I think just saying, I need help. Going straight to someone you feel comfortable with. There's always some people there. Yeah, there's some people you don't feel comfortable with, but there's always just one person who stays by you every time. Pats your back. It's okay to just go up to them. I'm not okay. I need this. I think that's just one thing everyone needs that one friend that everyone needs.

Lexi:

I think that's absolutely true. I mean, I think you always have a community, even though you might not feel your school is your community, your home, your friends, there's always going to be somebody that you can turn to. And it's just so weird how something so small can make such an impact on someone. I mean, something that I try to always keep in the back of my mind is the power of saying yes, of being kind to that person of saying yes to get involved. Just those small moments, you never know what they're going to turn out to mean to somebody else.

Lydia:

And I really liked your story. I mean, I shared stories about my friend who helped me transition into school and throwing up. So I told these kind of sillier stories, but I loved yours of being the kind person. Whereas mine was acts of kindness for me. And that just reminded me to be that nice person who someone else talks about on a podcast and that I hope that I can be that person for someone. That's my big takeaway.

Justine:

I love everything you're saying. And for me also, it's that especially as women or young girls, we tend to be shy to shy away from speaking up because we probably want to come and land a hand to someone else.

Or as you said Z, we are shy because we don't want to tell people we're not okay. But from everything that I heard today, it's important to follow your instincts. For me, it's like follow your guts, follow what you're feeling. It's important because we always have something kind. We can change someone's day for the better or just speaking up will allow someone else to help us. And that's very important. You want to say yes to all the opportunities because hearing also Lexi's story is like she said, yes. And today she's part of something bigger, something that is inspiring you and that is making people's lives better. And then listening to you, Lydia. I think you don't know where that kind word, that kind act, that small thing will make you feel better and just change the whole, how you see life in general because you're coming from your PTSD to wow. Just her being there for me just made it a whole different experience and I just love it. There's nothing small, basically. Right? Everything we do has a purpose. Everything we do has an impact. And coming back to your question at the beginning, now I know exactly what the butterfly effect is.

Lydia:

The butterfly effect.

Justine:

Is all about. Yes.

Lydia:

Yeah.

Justine:

You've been listening to the By Her Hands podcast, brought to you by WaterStep. Around the world, girls carry so much responsibility, hope, and the work of caring for their families. WaterStep equips them with tools and training that help them protect their own health, support their schools, and lead change in their communities. When girls have the tools they need, their power isn't something they search for, it is something they carry. Learn more about how girls everywhere are shaping their futures each by her own hands. And if you want to explore more about how the smallest moments can change things for the better for women and girls around the world, visit out WaterStep.org.

Lydia:

Thanks for joining us on the By Her Hands podcast, today. If something small is sticking with you, we hope you pay attention to it. It might be where change starts. Remember, you already carry more power than you think.

Disclaimer:

Listeners are reminded that the ideas, opinions, and information expressed on the By Her Hands podcast, belong solely to the guests and do not necessarily reflect the views, policies, or positions of WaterStep, its staff, partners, donors, or affiliates. This podcast is provided for informational and educational purposes only and is not intended as professional advice of any kind. WaterStep assumes no responsibility for actions taken based on the information provided.

For more information about WaterStep

Website: www.WaterStep.org

Episode 3: In this powerful episode, hosts Lexi, Lydia, and Justine welcome their first global guest, Faith from Uganda, to discuss the transformative nature of courage. The group redefines courage not as the absence of fear, but as the decision to take action despite being uncomfortable or afraid. Faith shares her inspiring story of speaking up to bring safe water to her village through WaterStep, saving local girls from long, dangerous journeys and allowing them to stay in school. Lexi and Lydia reflect on personal hurdles, from navigating chronic injuries to the isolation of being the only woman in male-dominated STEM spaces. Justine emphasizes that for women, courage often means pushing through criticism and accepting challenges to prove one's right to lead. Ultimately, the conversation highlights how one act of courage can create a ripple effect of change throughout an entire community.

Episode Transcript:

Disclaimer: Please note this episode includes discussions about sexual assault. Listener discretion is advised.

Lydia:

Being brave doesn't feel calm at all. It's like full-body panic mixed with okay, I'm doing this. It's sending the message you've deleted 3 times. It's trying something new and praying it doesn't haunt you in your sleep. It's raising your hand, even though you already know your words are probably going to come out all wrong. This episode is about that kind of courage. The kind that feels big and real on the inside, even if it looks like nothing to everyone else. How do you stand up for what's right, whether it's for you or for others?

Justine:

You're listening to the By Her Hands podcast, a space where young women figure things out together, who we are, what we want, and the power we already carry. It's brought to you by WaterStep, a global leader in safe water innovation. Learn more about how women and girls are shaping healthier futures, each by her own hands at WaterStep.org.

Lexi:

Hi everyone. This is Lexi.

Lydia:

Hey guys, it's Lydia and I'm so excited to be here. I've got a fun story today.

Justine:

Hi everyone, this is Justine. Good to be here again.

Lexi:

We have our first global guest today. Her name is Faith and she is from Uganda. Faith, would you like to introduce yourself?

Faith:

Hi guys. My name is Faith. I'm from Uganda and I'm in Kampala City. We're living in Entebbe, it's like a state. So, I'm so glad to be on with you guys today. Thank you.

Lexi:

Something I often think about is saying my teacher told me about "20 seconds of insane courage." She described it to me. We were on the UN trip a few weeks ago and we were sort of scared to go network with people we hadn't known and she was like, all it takes is 20 seconds of insane courage. And it really stuck with me because I feel like oftentimes courage we think of as not being afraid to do something. But oftentimes it means doing something you're going to be uncomfortable with, but just doing it anyways and then as 20 seconds can really change a lot. Lydia, do you have a similar experience or something you can relate to about 20 seconds of insane courage?

Lydia:

Well, I don't know if it was 20 seconds. I've been saying courage, but two years or two days I would say, I've been saying courage. In eighth grade my dad asked me if I want to play hockey and I was like, well, I don't know how to ice skate. I don't know even where I would play hockey and I know nothing about this. But he set me up with a team and I played ice hockey on an all-girls team for four years. I went in and knew no one, I didn't know how to skate, I didn't know how to hit a puck or do anything and it was terrifying. And my friend actually joined it and she was a part of the team as well and she ended up quitting. She's like, it's too much, it's too scary. I can't do it. But I remember just sticking it out because hopefully, I'll love the sport and maybe this can be something fun. And it ended up being one of my favorite things that I've ever done.

Justine:

That's so great. I love it. I love that you actually had faith and you jumped in there. It really resonates with me because I had those, yeah, 20 seconds of courage, Lexi. It for me was a couple of days. Absolutely. And it was not jumping into a sport, but maybe joining a new team. You have confidence in your skills, you know your expertise, but then you are the new kid in the block. And then for me, it took courage to actually present my way of working and be accepted. And that was a whole process and where it really hit hard is when I had to lead a group of colleagues that are used to working together and the hardest part was I was the only woman in the room. So my story is really, I'm trying to get to where I'm figuring out whether the courage that we have to put up with as women is always bigger or stronger or it takes a lot because I ended up being in a room of men who are used to working together. They know their staff and I had to guide and lead the work that we needed to do.

It was developing and designing a proposal for a new project and we spent a weekend in the hotel where they were expecting me to fail because I had to tell them how to do it, but also trust myself into knowing what needs to be done. But it was not easy because every single step of the way I would be second guessed or criticized or challenged. And I always thought, is it because I'm a woman? Is it because I'm new to the team or just that they don't realize or they don't accept what I'm saying? But in the end, we won the proposal, we won the project. We got the funding, but it really stuck with me. It really stuck with me in the sense that courage is also about accepting that you're going to be challenged and you're going to be criticized, but you keep pushing through. That's why I really like your story in terms of pushing through and ended up liking it because there's always success at the end. And Lexi, yeah, I'm glad it took you 20 seconds because it was a lot of time for me to get there.

Lexi:

Wow, that's a really impactful story. I really like what you touched on about courage is about accepting that you will be challenged. I feel like oftentimes we think courage means there's no fear. The presence of courage means the absence of fear, but I think it's the opposite. It's being able to step into the unknown, step into it knowing you're going to be uncomfortable knowing you're going to be challenged. For me, I actually did not have a 20 seconds of courage moment, but I think that's something that always comes to my mind when I'm in those uncomfortable moments. But something that definitely impacted me more was leg injuries that I've been dealing with since freshman year and I'm now a junior, so it's been a long time, many different injuries, all sort of continuous and as soon as I feel like I'm healing and I'm m PT and I'm about to graduate pt, then I'm right back to square one and then I'm in pain again.

And I've had three surgeries, I still need one more and hopefully that will be the one to do it. But from this, I used to play field hockey and obviously with all these leg issues I was sort of put up pause of being a part of the team and being able to play for a long time. And so it was that courage that I had not up until very, very recently that I decided to step away from my sport and really focus on what would that new part of me look like? What's going to be my new passion? And so then I started leaning into school more and what do I want my career to look like? Let me get more involved with my service and just sort of tapping into all those other aspects of me. But it took a lot of courage and a lot of wavering in the in-between of is this something I fully want to commit to? But I think definitely that feeling of being alone, like you said, you were the only woman in the room. I sort of relate to that of being isolated with my injury. I think definitely just sometimes courage can be isolating and it can just be having the courage to step into the unknown and something that's uncomfortable. Faith, do you have a story that you want to share with us about a time that you had courage?

Faith:

Yes, please. I really do. So it was back then when I was, I think I was 12 years old by then, so I was living in this really remote area, but then we were a family that was somehow better than the rest who were living there. So, finding what that area was really hard. You have to move long distances to get the water, but then for me, I didn't have to do that because my dad had a way of getting for us water. But my friends used to have to move long distances to go and get that water. And what I mean by a long distance is leaving your village to the next village to go and get water. It was really far for people to move and the women who could do that. In Africa, we have this culture of a woman is supposed to do such kind works like fetching water and getting firewood and stuff like that. So they had to move long distances to get and some people could get r@ped on their way and then some others couldn't find their way back home.

So this one time I was having a conversation with my dad and I'm like, why can't we find a way of bringing a source of water for the community, so that it's easier for people to get access to water instead of having to move a long distance? And it was really hard for them. So I really felt bad for people. So when I told him that, he was like, he doesn't know what he's going to do about it. But then this one time he talked to Lucy's dad because we got connected to WaterStep through Lucy Westlake's family. So if it wasn't for them, then I don't how I would get connected to WaterStep. I'm really grateful for that as well.

So my first project to these guys was the 24th January, 2017. That was my first ever project in my village called Atiriri, in eastern Uganda. I had to be courageous for these girls if I wasn't, because I was also scared to tell my dad that because I felt like he would be like, who are you to be concerned over that whatsoever? But then I'm so happy that when I got over my fears and I spoke up for them, they were able to get a water source in our area. We have a water source, we don't have to move long distance anymore. All thanks to WaterStep and me being courageous for them. Yeah, that's it.

Justine:

Before we continue with our episode, let me take a minute to remind you that By Her Hands is a global program empowering women and girls through safe-water access, menstrual health management, and economic opportunity. The program and this podcast are brought to you by WaterStep. Together we believe that when a young woman can protect her own health, she leads. When she leads, her family thrives and when her family thrives, her whole community grows stronger. Learn more about how women and girls are shaping healthier futures, each by her own hands at WaterStep.org.

Lexi:

Wow, that is incredible and really an impactful story. I think what you touched on was that you were afraid to talk to your dad, you were afraid to voice your concerns for these girls, but you knew it was what was needed for your community. So I think it was just the courage that you had to be able to do that. And it wasn't because you weren't afraid and it wasn't because you weren't uncomfortable, but you did it anyways, which I think is amazing.

Justine:

Faith, being from Senegal in Africa as well, I can understand the burden that you witnessed, right? I cannot begin to say how I wasn't thinking about speaking up or talking about it because all of the pressure that the community has and yes, kudos to you. You are so inspiring because you were able to speak up and as we talk about courage, I just want to understand what made you really speak up? Was it something that you could see girls your age or your friends going through? Is there something that really triggered you where you went, when I say trigger, it's like really that you witnessed and you were like, enough is enough. Because I keep wondering how much should we take on until we build up the courage to do what needs to be done? And what you did is so impactful and so amazing. What would you say really pushed you to do something?

Faith:

Well, so what pushed me to do that was because girls my age had to go and look for water, instead of being in school. I used to go to school and see these girls go because we used to have times whereby there is no rain, completely no rain, and you have to move that long distance to go to get water because it's a basic need, and it's that we all have to have to use it for our daily life. So I used to go to school and my friends are not in school just because they're out looking for water for home. And I had this neighbor whose mom used to be like, you're going to come back to this house if you've not filled this drum to the brim. So that really pushed me and then I had to talk to my dad about it because it was getting out of hand. Girls my age had to drop out of school and those girls who got r@ped, they got r@ped a really young age and they had to carry their pregnancies and they couldn't handle that. So I wanted that to stop because it was really too much and it was sad looking at my mates going through all that.

Lydia:

Faith, do you think it was scarier for you to stand up and say something because you're a girl, would it have been easier if you were a boy?

Faith:

Well, yeah, because in Africa a girl is inferior. A boy is more superior compared to a girl. So they wouldn't listen that much to a girl. But then I was like, after what happen, just let me just do it. And if they take it serious, well then go. Then if they don't also, I just kept on hoping something would be done.

Lydia:

That's amazing for you to be the person who stands up. It's a corny saying, but the one day or day one thing, just to stand up and say something, it's incredible. And in my life I know how I've experienced being looked down on because I'm a girl, but never to such a level. And I understand we talked about earlier being the only girl in the room and having to work twice as hard at things to prove your right to be there. But that's unimaginable for me. Has it inspired more change in your community?

Faith:

Yes. Ever since the water source was put there because it's like a tank and then we pump water from somewhere. So everyone in the community somehow got to know that it was because of me that the water was there. So I inspired more people to actually not keep silent or whatever problem they're facing. So girls actually started standing up and sometimes they come and they tell me, Faith, this and this, help me and talk about this so that it's cleared out. So I'm just glad I actually inspired them and they always use me as an example to stand up for themselves as well.

Justine:

Wow, Faith, thank you so much for sharing that and just the part that it inspired the whole community to change it provided hope in terms of just things can change and it just takes one to start that change.

I really like that our actions are impacting others, but I was wondering, as we all shared Lexi and you shared your own path and the own way that you felt courageous, how did it affect you at the end? Would you say it's something where once you do it once you're always ready to it more or is it always every situation with specific reaction or specific way to just pump yourself up and go, I can do it.

Lexi:

I think it gets a little bit easier every time. I feel like in recovery when I was doing really well and I was sort of at the very brink of being able to play again and then I started experiencing pain again and sort of going back downhill and back to square one. It was discouraging, yes, but also I found a little bit of comfort in knowing I've done this before and I'm going to get the answers I need and I know that I'm going to be the one to speak up when I know something is not feeling right. And I know my parents would've were going to advocate for me too. And after doctors and doctors and doctors' appointments, we finally found people that could diagnose me and tell what was going on. So I think to answer your question, it gets a little easier each time, but it's still hard and I think it's discouraging in a way, but also once you do it a couple of times you sort of build up a confidence that you're like, I know I got this. And so I think that's really cool that Faith was just that one act. People built up confidence in her and sort of saw her as that mentor for them. And I think that's so awesome that she's that spokesperson and somebody that can really listen for the girls in her community that they feel like they can come to.

Lydia:

And Faith, I'm in awe of your story and just how you had the courage to stand up to something so just morbid and terrible. And I just wondered, it's been eight years I think since that's happened. And how has it changed you today? How has it affected what you want to do in the future?

Faith:

Well, the way today now I'm not afraid to stand up for myself, as I was before. Right now I stand out for myself everywhere in school with my friends, wherever I really speak out. And also the way it has affected me right now is that I got inspired to do social work, so that I can help my community more after graduating from school so that I'll give back to them and stand for them more and more.

Justine:

We're all sharing our moments of courage and from being individual level or community level, whether it's professional or very close to home, to me it really is interesting in the way that every single meaningful moment will probably require some courage and every time you calling for that extra umpf where you need that to push forward because something is telling you this is the right thing to do or I got this, but either people don't think you do or people don't believe in you, or just because you're a girl you shouldn't be speaking up. When we get through that, it's just amazing the changes that we make either on ourselves or around the community or the impact that we have, whether it's being the best player in the team, right Lydia? Or just being that inspiring and role model in the community, Faith. Again at that time and the age you had at that time, I wasn't thinking about any of those, although it was part of my daily reality being in the community and in Africa as well. I understood that.

Or Lexi, how you had the support of the whole, your support system was with you, but it was just life changing moments where you had to figure out how to push through. And I think for me, courage it, it's neither right or wrong, I don't know what you think about it, it's probably what the right ingredient you need to discover more about yourself or to grow more. And it is especially right for women that we will always have to be courageous in order to move the world or in order to just carry or spread the power that we have. Listening to you guys, that's really what came to mind. What do you think?

Lydia:

I love your story about being the only woman in the room and that's really what stuck with me when you said that, just that relatability. Because when I came to this episode, I thought that my big courage story was joining a new sport where everybody already knew what was going on. And then I remembered all the times I've been because I want to do engineering. And all the times I've been the only girl in the STEM club and the only girl in my engineering class. And how I just have this feeling in the back of my head, this voice telling me that I have to prove myself and work. I have to prove myself more than the guys in the room and I have to work harder than they do and I have to succeed. And if someone is doing better than me, then I'm making a fool of myself and I shouldn't be here. And just that feeling of having to prove yourself, that goes with being the only girl. And I also after this just feel empowered with speaking out for people in my community and what just speaking out can do and can change people's lives. Faith, what is your takeaway from this?

Faith:

Well what I have to say is that, let me just add one bit on courage. Courage is not about being fearless, it's not about being fearless, it's about taking action when you feel afraid.

So everyone feels nervous sometimes, most especially when they're facing something new whatsoever. But courage means you should do it anyway. So how I was kind of scared of telling my dad and was afraid of how he would react to it, but then I had to do it anyway because I had to help those girls and I felt really bad that my community had to go through that. So I did whatever it took to see that something would change. Yeah.

Justine:

Faith, I just love what you said that courage means action. That is, yeah, you're going to make me think about it. Yes. You're really going to make me think about it.

Lydia:

Can I get that tattoo? Courage means action.

Lexi:

And I think Faith, your story was such a perfect example of courage means action in that moment of courage. That moment of action has a ripple effect on everyone around you. So I think that's just amazing of how you're able to truly impact your community. I think it really is. It's an example for all of us.

As we close out this episode, Faith, I want to hear your thoughts. What are some of the things that you learned and what are some of the takeaways from this conversation?

Faith:

Okay, I have learned a lot from your stories, but mainly what I picked is that courage shows in small moments speaking up and trying different things, choosing to continue when things are tough. And I have learned that you have to do the things you have to do anyway without something, with or without someone support. You don't have to wait for people to give you, let say the space to do it whatsoever. You don't have to belittle yourself. You can do it either way. So it doesn't matter your age, whether you're a girl or a boy, you have to do it for you and whoever you wanted to help whatsoever.

Lexi:

Well, thank you everyone for this conversation today. Thank you Justine, and thank you Lydia and most all. Thank you, Faith for sharing your story with us today. I think you have been a true example and all of our stories combined that courage means action. It has a ripple effect and it means to do it anyways even when you're afraid.

Justine:

You've been listening to the By Her Hands podcast brought to you by WaterStep. Around the world, girls carry so much responsibility, hope, and the work of caring for their families. WaterStep equips them with tools and training that help them protect their own health, support their schools, and lead change in their communities. When girls have the tools they need, their power isn't something they search for. It is something they carry. Learn more about how girls everywhere are shaping their futures, each by her own hands. And if you want to explore more about connection and belonging, visit WaterStep.org.

Lydia:

Thanks for being here with us on the By Her Hands podcast. Keep trusting your voice. And remember, you're courageous already, because you carry more power than you think.

Disclaimer:

Listeners are reminded that the ideas, opinions, and information expressed on the By Her Hands podcast belong solely to the guests and do not necessarily reflect the views, policies, or positions of WaterStep, its staff, partners, donors, or affiliates. This podcast is provided for informational and educational purposes only and is not intended as professional advice of any kind. WaterStep assumes no responsibility for actions taken based on the information provided.

For more information about WaterStep

Website: www.WaterStep.org