In this episode, I'm joined by Charlie Buttrey, a criminal defense attorney and theology student with firsthand insights on why prison reform is needed in the U.S. and how we can realistically accomplish this goal. Together, we explore the contrast between U.S. prisons and Norway's rehabilitative approach to criminality and substance abuse disorder, discussing what lessons, if any, can be drawn. Charlie's personal anecdotes, including his brief encounter with a notorious figure from American history, offer a rare glimpse into the complexities of the justice system.