Cache Flow

Meet Kent Landvatter, CEO of FinWise Bank, a financial haven for the fintech space. With 14 years at the helm, he shares intriguing insights from enabling FinTech platforms with API layers to navigating the complex web of regulation. Tune in for a deep dive into the symbiotic relationship between traditional banking and modern technology, from automated lending to combating money laundering and beyond.

Here are a few topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Cache Flow Podcast.

• Kent's journey from traditional banking to FinTech
• Fin Wise's robust SBA lending and tech stack
• How APIs streamline FinTech lending operations
• The role of stable coins in modern banking
• Kent discusses regulatory relationships and AI

Resources:

• FinWise Bank
• Curotec 

Connect with Kent Landvatter:

• LinkedIn

Connect with our host, Brian Dainis:

• Linktree

Quotables:

• 05:11 - The thing that's been interesting to watch in SBA land, because I've been there for many, many years, is a lot of administrations will cut back on the subsidy or will increase the subsidy, you know, to, to save money or to, you know, expand small business lending. But SPA, and I don't have the actual data, but SPA is one of the few government programs that I believe actually at least breaks, even if not makes money for the government, because when someone does an SBA loan, part of what they pay for that SB loan, SBA loan is a fee that helps, you know, support the subsidy. So the subsidies really there as a backstop if the, if too many loans go bad, but a lot of those fees were being paid by banks and customers that are participating in the program. 
• 05:11 - The thing that's been interesting to watch in SBA land, because I've been there for many, many years, is a lot of administrations will cut back on the subsidy or will increase the subsidy, you know, to, to save money or to, you know, expand small business lending. But SPA, and I don't have the actual data, but SPA is one of the few government programs that I believe actually at least breaks, even if not makes money for the government, because when someone does an SBA loan, part of what they pay for that SB loan, SBA loan is a fee that helps, you know, support the subsidy. So the subsidies really there as a backstop if the, if too many loans go bad, but a lot of those fees were being paid by banks and customers that are participating in the program. 
• 14:07 - For the larger banks, I think SBA lending is just a step for them to bring a customer who's not ready for a regular commercial loan into the fold. Right? And then they'll try and put 'em into a commercial loan as soon as they can and sometimes pay off the SBA loan where they make money, the bank makes money both on the, on the premium and then, yeah. 'cause they'll sell these out to the marketplace and then they can re write that into a commercial loan. And I think that's generally what you see. But there are a handful of banks, one of ours being ours, being one of those that really focuses on this as a core business. 'cause if you think of the total SBA volume that's produced each year, it's probably a rounding air for a bank like Citibank or what have you. For banks like ours, it can be very meaningful. And so we've got a very deep SBA program and SBA department and we pride ourselves on fast turn times and being able to get the data together in a right way that helps a customer gather and understand what's happening. And, and so we're not always going back for more and more and more. And I think you're a strong SBA lenders, you know, focusing just more and more on that would probably be similar to this.
• 15:32 - I think you might have more insight on this, but I think it, obviously the commercial lending terms typically are a little better than the SBA lending terms, but you know, then you have like covenants and stuff that you have to meet typically on the commercial side, whereas the SBA doesn't. And I think what I understand is, you know, it makes sense to look at commercial when you either have a strong collateral position that you can offer the bank or if you have, I don't like, I have a professional services firm, so there's like no collateral other than cash and ar. So I think what made sense there was to have like at least a few million in EBITDA to really take the commercial side more seriously.
• 40:42 - But if we build an API that's customize, customizable by the FinTech where they can go in and optimize all that, they can say, if it's up to this time and the customer wants it this fast, use these rails and they can optimize the use of the rails because it's all on our system. And so they can push the money or receive the money any way they want, but push the money which is optimal for the customer and at the lease cost for the FinTech. And then when you add that to the, the lending side, receiving payments and so forth, it really gives a FinTech a lot more options of one stop shopping on the movement of the money and support of their customers.

In this riveting episode, Palash Soni, CEO of Gold Cast, shares his bold journey from an HBS dropout to tech startup success. His company, revolutionizing B2B marketing with AI video campaigns, thrived amid Covid uncertainty, defied odds with rapid growth, and now raises questions about the future of SaaS innovation. Tune in to dive into his riveting tales, fundraising adventures, and insights on crafting a venture that stands out in the saturated software market.

Here are a few topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Cache Flow Podcast.

• Palash details Gold Cast's emergence in 2020.
• Harvard dropout bets big on AI video SaaS.
• Growth hack: Calendar invites boost attendance.
• Goldcast's branding edge over competitors.
• Second product's success signifies an inflection.
• Founders grapple with a saturated SaaS future.

Resources:

• Goldcast
• Curotec 

Connect with Palash Soni:

• LinkedIn

Connect with our host, Brian Dainis:

• Linktree

Quotables:

• 10:22 - We didn't have Visas to work with and it was, you know, 2020 May Republican government. So we had to get through visas and we also were kind of perceived as late to market even though the market was created two months back. But just because so many people had raised so much money, all of a sudden we were under a lot of scrutiny, like a lot of questions around why this company should exist. So, the other angle was that we had the stick-in-neck problem of we needed money or VCV money to get a visa. The only way we could get a visa is this visa called an O-1 visa. Some people like advertise it as Einstein Visa, which it is not called by the US government, but it's essentially for entrepreneurs or PhDs or people who are doing outstanding work in their fields.
• 13:07 - The equation for me and for everyone has flipped in the last two years to saying, okay, what, like, VC money is not a given and it should only be raised when there is a venture scale opportunity to go after. And we are still figuring that out. We have a very strong thesis around having an end-to-end video platform that can change the game for marketers and enterprises, but it's still early, like it's a decently complicated product piece that we are building. So we have early proof points that we can raise another round and justify that valuation. But yeah, we need proof stuff out before we race. So the short answer is we will, we are on that path, but it's not the only path we can take.
• 27:01 - So we actually preach the opposite, Brian, that you should not just have MQLs as the end goal of webinars. So what we say and what we do also in our own motion is that webinars are part of like a bigger content motion, right? So the, the most results from webinars is obtained when you do it, and then you let the content live in many other places and operationalize that content in ways where it can generate value. 
• 24:00 - I do think that the chasm is starting to be crossed with AI B2B, AI products. I think, you know, businesses are starting to move from, you know, starting to move from early adopters to like early majority with AI products. So it might be, if my, you know, assumption there is correct, it might be a good time in the next couple of years to really sell it. 
• 42:04 - Same thing is with software, right? It's all the obvious opportunities have been picked off in the last 10 years. Even the most non-obvious have been picked off. So as a result, I think two things are happening, which at least I see anecdotally and then probably data will verify it, is that it is also, it has become a lot more, it's a, it's become a lot harder for younger founders to succeed in SaaS because you genuinely need a lot of depth and, and tribal knowledge of having worked in an enterprise or having been super deep in some, some area to actually come up with an insight that can lead to a venture scale product. So that's one. And in general, I think that realization dawned on a little late on everyone including founders and venture community that this is not the 1960s, this is like the 1990s of cars, but the underwriting of everything in the Zera era was being done as if it's 1960s. So that led to all of this over-digestion of capital. I do think with AI there is a new pool of opportunities that is coming in.

Dive into the dynamic world where corporate meets creativity with Amer, a serial entrepreneur with five startups and a vision for shaking up traditional business models. Explore the high-stakes thrills of entrepreneurship and discover how AI is revolutionizing video production—all in this invigorating chat loaded with lessons and laughter.

Here are a few of the topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Cache Flow Podcast.

• The tough transition from corporate to founder
• Building five companies with two successful exits
• Pioneering short-form video content
• Introducing AI to modern video production
• The balance of tech and human touch in business

Resources:

• Lucihub
• Curotec 

Connect with Amer Tadayon:

• LinkedIn

Connect with our host, Brian Dainis:

• Linktree

Quotables:

• 03:26 - Well, I think that you do one of two things. Either you realize you just can't do it and you move on and you go back into, you know, corporate America or you say, okay, let me see if I can do this again and not relive the same lessons. And that's the hard part, I think, is to remember the mistakes you made and not apply them a second or a third or a fourth time for me. I had to learn the same mistake a few times and then finally, finally not apply it. 
• 16:38 - I think that's a really, I think that's the future of a lot of these SaaS companies because everyone's, you know, all the product categories that can be fully automated I think have already been done. It's hard to do things new that, you know, haven't been done before. And, you know, kind of taking human component, integrating humans into your product experience, but delivering it at a SaaS product, I've seen a lot of businesses do some really cool things.
• 15:46 - It's human. It's human editors. Now we leverage a ton of AI tools to accelerate it, but at the end of the day, you know, I always say, you know, design and what we do is subjective, and subjective is always gonna need a human touch. So, you know, there's a lot of hype around AI replacing editors and filmmakers and all of this stuff. And, you know, I think it's gonna accelerate things, but I just don't think, our who we are as people is, you know, you're not gonna let technology tell you what looks great. 
• 27:40 - I don't think you can stop innovation and the progress. I think you're gonna have to figure out how to work with it, right? And that's what we're trying to do. We're saying, Hey, how do we do this? And, you know, we're not eliminating people by any means. We're actually just accelerating the work and being able to do more with less. And I think what's cool about being a startup in this day and age is AI is woven into the fabric and into the DNA of this business, right? We started AI at our core. And so, you know, we embrace all of this. 
• 37:05 - I I think they're either gonna have to find a way to leverage technology to be more efficient, or they're just not gonna get business anymore. I mean, it's the reality of it you know when I had my production company, what is it, 10 years ago, 15 years ago, it was harder to do this. So you could justify charging a lot more for it. But the tech is really democratizing a lot of this, right?And so we talked to an agency last week in LA who said, our client will is willing to pay us one 10th of what they used to pay us two years ago to do this, these videos. And we stopped doing them because it just didn't make sense. 

Join us as we unravel the inspiring bootstrapping saga of Sana Kumar, Founder and CEO of Kovai.co. With a gripping tale of growth from niche product programming to leading three booming SaaS products, Sana shares wisdom on entrepreneurship, the challenges of multi-product focus, and leveraging AI for innovation. Tune in for a hearty blend of tech talk and founder foresight!

Here are a few topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Cache Flow Podcast.

• Bootstrapped a niche SaaS to 300 people
• Created LinkedIn content as a CEO
• Discovered a gap in Document 360
• Killed a product after 4-year run
• Emphasized scaling current products

Resources:

• Kovai
• Curotec

Connect with Saravana Kumar:

• LinkedIn

Connect with our host, Brian Dainis:

• Linktree

Quotables:

• 03:51 - The problems typically what large companies face at some point, they all need to talk to each other. You might need a customer data from your SAP system into your Salesforce. And from Salesforce, some data need to go into your workday and all these things. So that is where the specialty of this Microsoft product, sits in the middle, it connects everything together and helps you to build that kind of integrated systems.
• 20:49 - There's kinda like two ways you can think about a SaaS product, either verticalized or horizontal and like a Calendly or you know, like a Document 360 or you know, a QuickBooks. Those are like horizontal SaaS products. And you know, I think once you kind of feel like, I think horizontal focus, like just purely horizontal focus worked, a decade or two decades ago better than it does now. And I think in order to go to market, well with a horizontal product, you kind of have to like put it into verticals. So you have to say, you know, even if the product itself is horizontal, you still have to like market and sell it as, you know, healthcare focus or tech focus or maybe construction or whatever the vertical is. And then if you've got a verticalized product, like a product that's initially designed for one industry, then I think the expansion opportunities you have to like figure out what other sort of similar industries you can move it to.
• 11:24 - So they're talking about Lotus Notes and they're comparing Lotus to Microsoft and they're saying, you know, Lotus, Lotus's advantage in the market is that they're creating, they're the first groupware products that is, you know, serving the enterprise use case. And they're like, this is probably gonna give Lotus Notes a competitive advantage over Microsoft for years to come.
• 31:51 - So let's talk about bootstrapping. I think it's super awesome. Like anytime I hear about, you know, SaaS companies that have achieved scale and especially bootstrapping it, you know, it's, it's certainly very hard to build a SaaS company because there's a ton of upfront RND and then when you do start getting customers, typically it's like small chunks of money on a monthly basis. It's not like you're selling a big consulting contract where you have a huge down payment. So you know, it takes a while to kind of get the steam engine going to be profitable. So like why, why did you bootstrap, why didn't you raise capital and, you know, how did you fund the company? Like how did all that get going?
• 36:48 - And nowadays you just spin up like, you know, you just install Node JS or Laravel or Ruby on Rails and you've got like a full application scaffolding to like,  you can write, write an app in like, a couple weeks if you're really good and fast and you know, simple app and so like technology's no longer remote. I think the moat nowadays, unless you have like some super difficult to get data that's core to your application, you know, the technology itself is not the mote, but the mote is distribution of the technology, the ability to acquire, acquire customers 

Dive into the fascinating world of HoldCos with Brent Beshore, the mastermind behind a 15-company empire. From untangling the definition of a HoldCo to exploring the gritty details of CEO transitions, this episode uncovers the delicate art of building a lasting business conglomerate. Join us for an insightful blend of strategy revelations and Brent's personal entrepreneurial journey that's anything but linear. Don't miss this masterclass on nurturing small giants!

Here are a few of the topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Cache Flow Podcast.

• What exactly is a HoldCo?
• HoldCo vs. Private Equity specifics.
• Unpacking the 'adolescent phase' of a business.
• The challenges of centralizing business operations.
• Insightful strategies for hiring CEOs.
• Adapting to unexpected business conditions.
• Balancing cash flow and reinvestment decisions.

Resources:

• Permanent Equity
• Curotec 

Connect with Brent Beshore:

• LinkedIn

Connect with our host, Brian Dainis:

• Linktree

Quotables:

• 02:14 - The nature of what a HoldCo is, you know, by nature it's usually there's no terminal end date to a HoldCo versus a private equity fund usually as a 10 year lifespan. So we're kind of in the blend of between you know, we've got a 30 year initial term. We can also renew, we can go longer than 30 years if we want to. So we have a lot of the functionality of a HoldCo, but technically each fund is its own private equity fund. I mean, private equity broadly just means you buy equity and private company. So technically a HoldCo is also a private equity firm in the sense that it buys equity in private companies.
• 36:39 -  Brian: They're not ever fully responsible for their own failures or successes. But, you know, especially failures, specially failures, which is what you want. You want people to own their success and their failures and be responsible for their success and failures. And it's, you know, it makes sense that the way that works in a single company applies when you have a portfolio of companies. So it kind of, I had to hear it from you to fully soak in the why part, but it, it makes total sense at that point.
  Brent: Well, here's another one that's kind of like this, that's an insight that's hard earned. And when I say it initially, you're gonna say, wait, what? Because I would've said the same thing, which is, small businesses don't have access to good talent. And you're like, no, wait a minute, is that making fun of or is that poking fun at at small businesses?
• 28:59 - We should see clear opportunities and we should be able to clearly see the lids on that business that's been holding it back. And then we're really honest with people, Hey, these are the things we wanna do after close, this is what we want to help you guys with. This is how we wanna be operationally involved so that we all win together. And they're like, great, we don't know anything about that stuff. So help us. We need help. 
• 25:19 - So John Malone, the cable industry was his thing. He didn't care about anything else. He wanted to be in the media, cable business, and he was gonna go as deep as possible as he could do it. And he built an incredible business based on that. He used a tremendous amount of debt. He was able to finance a lot of it through pre-tax dollars. It was brilliant, right? I mean, he actually created the term EBITDA, right? So the term EBITDA we used, like John Malone actually created that so that he could get banks to understand how to finance his operations. That's how smart he was.
• 50:35 - We don't always hit home runs. We're hitting a lot of foul balls and we're hitting a lot of ground and rule singles, you know, I mean, so it's not like this is not an exact science and we don't have it all figured out. So just as you know, take everything with a grain of salt. We've done this for a long time. We've worked with a lot of CEOs and I would say we keep getting humbled over and over and over again. And I think this is just, look, the thistles and thorns of operating business

Dive into this exhilarating episode as Ignite!’s CEO Jessica Sliwerski returns to unpack an extraordinary year of 5X growth, pivotal Series B funding, and a seismic impact on student reading. Discover how Ignite! Reading is changing the game for kids nationwide. It's a heartfelt saga of innovation, human-centric tech, and a mission to mold the future of education.

Here are a few topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Cache Flow Podcast.

• 5X company growth in just a year.
• Over 16,000 students served nationally.
• Raised a game-changing Series B.
• Honestly human-driven teaching success.
• Rigorous tutor certification process.

Resources:

• Ignite! Reading
• Curotec
• E33: Solving the Reading Crisis in America with Ignite! Reading’s Jessica Sliwerski

Connect with Jessica Sliwerski:

• LinkedIn

Connect with our host, Brian Dainis:

• Linktree

Quotables:

• 11:22 -  It's not because anyone is evil, it's because the system isn't designed in a way that is going to make “the main thing” the main thing. And so nobody's really, it's like if no one's accountable and it's not the thing that every single person is obsessing about, then yeah, this is gonna keep happening. So that's one part of the problem historically.
• 25:48 - So I often feel like I'm such an imposter because I run a tech company and I can't even, you know, figure out how to make Netflix work on my television in my living room. And so the answer to your question is that in terms of the experience for the customer, it is a deeply human experience because it's tutors that are, you know, video conferencing through our secure platform meeting one-on-one with kids and doing direct instruction that is synchronous, there is no app per se. And what we figured out how to do adding ignite reading that is unique in our space is how to scale something that is so human intensive. And typically in EdTech, what you have are a lot of software products and it's pretty easy to scale a software product, but the problem is that you can't get the quality of outcomes because the act of learning to read is hard.
• 26:59 - Humans don't like to do hard things. And so when you put an asynchronous app in front of a little kid in a classroom and you say, do this for 15 to 20 minutes a day and that's how you're gonna get extra support to learn how to read, that's not gonna work. It's gonna work for a very small percentage of kids who are hyper compliant and for whom learning to read is not hard. So they're just gonna do the app, but for the vast majority of kids, it's going to look like a head on a desk and them just pressing buttons and not otherwise engaged. And so what we've had to figure out is how to scale something that is so heavily reliant on humans and what our flywheel is for the recruitment, the development, the ongoing performance management and the quality control of this tutor force that as of today is, you know, about 1300 part-time employees.
• 28:04 -  It's like a classic like entrepreneur problem where you know, you have this idea, I wanna help all these kids learn to read and I wanna teach non-educators to be tutors and they're gonna meet virtually and it's gonna be amazing. And then you start building it and you're like, oh sh*t, these are people, there's a whole HR side to this that is no small thing that we have to figure out. And we now need to back into all of these pieces around how do you recruit and not just recruit but recruit a diverse tutor force because we want kids to be able to see people who look like them or, you know, affirm their identities and cultures or speak their home language. 
• 58:30 - I've always been someone in like building companies that's, you know, been one of the first employees and I thought it was cool when we got to 30 people and I thought it was cool when we got to 60 people and now we're at a hundred people and it's still only just the beginning and it's kind of wild to think about where we could be this time next year. And there's this part of me that is like, can I do this? You know, like imposter syndrome is particularly with my inner voice, I mean, it is just, it, it's real and I've learned to embrace it. 
• 59:28 - But to be a good CEO more than just vision, you also have to surround yourself with a good team. So you've got this amazing vetting process for your tutors. It sounds like you probably bet for people who share your vision and your passion for the mission as well for your internal employees. And you've already, you know, we were talking about the metrics on the tutor pipeline and you're like actually I have a person that handles that and I don't really know. And that's actually a good thing for a CEO in my opinion. I think the better you are at delegating and letting go of certain details or certain details that if it's related to vision and strategy, the CEO in my opinion should continue to own. But I think, you know, when you get into the minutia, the better you are at letting go and delegating to competent people that you trust, the more effective you're gonna be at building a big company.

Dive into the podcast world with Grain CEO Jeff Whitlock as we unravel Grain's AI-driven meeting evolution, the merger that molded its future, and the star-studded story of Mike Adams. Get an insider's look into raising VC funds, the trials of startup life, and the riveting roadmap that Grain's cooking up, all topped off with some candid Silicon Valley talk.

Here are a few topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Cache Flow Podcast.

• Grain's AI Transforms Note-taking.
• Grain and Startups’ Merger Insight.
• SaaS Frameworks vs. Intuition.
• Raising VC Funds: Pros & Cons.
• The Future Roadmap for Grain.

Resources:

• Grain
• Curotec 

Connect with Jeff Whitlock:

• LinkedIn

Connect with our host, Brian Dainis:

• Linktree

Quotables:

• 05:00 - Yeah, we had  fun, fun that we thought that was fun. We joked to Mike, you're famous, you're old startup was mentioned in this show, but in his experience he kind of realized we're doing a lot of these remote learning sessions. To be honest, this experience around recording them is not very good. And so that was kind of the initial gist of the idea. So it started, grain started off just very much as this idea that all these meetings are gonna be moving onto from kind of analog conversation, digital conversations, and there's a lot of value in these meetings. We should make it a lot easier that for them to be, a lot easier to record and make them accessible and useful.
• 8:16 - And so, we made some tough mistakes I think during that period. Really important lesson for entrepreneurship is like, money doesn't solve your problems. You know, I think we raised probably, I think when I first started entrepreneur, it was like, hey, if I can just raise that big round, success will be there and learn that that's not true. In fact, too much money can cause its own problems. It causes you to kind of be a little lazy and try to cut corners and hire people to solve problems. And I've just learned, and we've just learned time and time again that like the founders have to at least come up with a solid V one on most most things. It is really hard to sort of outsource that.
• 10:33 - So we've had just a huge, huge number of new competitors join in that are kind of more like 2 to 3-year-old companies, whereas like the original ones like 4 to 5-year-old companies. So that's been interesting to try to compete with them. And they often have like new fresh blood, fresh capital and, we're still kind of going on and, that's been a really interesting to kind of think about the strategic and market dynamics of our industry and one with like obvious value but not great moats. And so that's been really interesting and not necessarily enough network effects for like there to be obvious winner take all quickly
• 23:16 - I would be much more, I'd say cautious in taking VC money. I think, I think when I started my entrepreneurial journey, I just like, this is the way you do it. You know, get an idea, you get a little bit early traction, you sweat equity and then once you can raise money you should raise money because then you can pay yourself and grow and blah, blah, blah. I think there was like a very much like this is the path and I didn't consider many other paths. I would say if I were to do it again, obviously I think this time around I'd be in a position where I would have a little bit more starting capital and people who would maybe, maybe invest, but just as like, friends, family angels, which I didn't have the first time around.
• 44:25 - Yeah, so the way I think about it is at a high level, well first of all there's a strategy and the strategy is essentially, in my opinion, it's defining where are you playing in the market and what's your theory on how you're going to capture the opportunity or win and that strategy should inform all your decisions then. So that's kind of at the macro level. And we could talk more about strategy if you want how I think about it then you have, at the micro level, I have some kind of like broad based heuristics that kind of, we don't perfectly follow, but they give you rough guidelines. So at this stage in grain,  we spend about 80/20 or 75/25 we call offense and defense. Offense are features that we feel are like moving the product forward and going to help us get new business either, either by selling new people, getting more people to convert or maybe getting more people to upgrade. So it's like going to build the business and make it go forward.

Dive into the cutting-edge world of real estate with Stash Geleszinski, Co-Founder of Nëdl – the data platform predicting property transactions before they hit the market. Discover how Nëdl is transforming brokerage with predictive analytics, empowering players to anticipate and capitalize on upcoming deals. Expect stories from the trenches of the commercial real estate industry and insights into the tech that's shaping its future.

Here are a few of the topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Cache Flow Podcast.

• Data drives real estate's future.
• Nëdl predicts market moves.
• Stories of commercial real estate.
• Tech intersects with property deals.
• The rollercoaster of brokerage life.

Resources:

• Nëdl
• Curotec 

Connect with Stash Geleszinski:

• LinkedIn

Connect with our host, Brian Dainis:

• Linktree

Quotables:

• 13:01 - Well, no, the loan comes due, right? Like you've gotta do, when a loan matures, you've gotta do one of four things. You can refinance it, you can sell it, you can pay it off, or you can give it back to the bank depending on the situation. So there are only four potential outcomes.
• 27:36 - So how do we get into those markets?  I think it starts with just looking and identifying what the patterns are and it's like if you look at the deals that trade, they'll tell you what. And then, so if you look at the deals that have traded and then you look on their history for the past six to 12 months, you can figure out what the tells are and then you can extrapolate that forward on the rest of the properties in that market or sub-market. And that's really, you know, what we're doing. So each property is gonna have its own functionality or difference of operation, but the data will tell you if you know where to look.
• 38:29 - There seems to be a certain set of buyers though that they have found a way to exploit the system in that way and that's the business model. And occasionally they will buy a deal, so you will see them in the property records. So you're like, okay, they're legit. But then you get into bed with them in a transaction and it's like, oh my God, this is terrible. What are we doing? So I don't know, we've had a couple of those and so when we see them in our CRM system, it's like, do not call this person. Do not, I will disown you if you call.
• 43:31 - Stash: I've heard of lenders not showing up to closings and buyers almost being delusional thinking that they are going to do it and then they end up not. But I've never, and I've talked with others, nobody has ever heard of a lender showing up with their funds, but then the buyer failing to show up with their funds.
  Brian: So what, what'd you do to send the money back to the lender and cancel the deal?
  Stash: Yeah, the escrow or the lender pulled it back through a CH, I guess, or a wire and you know, I think we gave him like a week like, okay, get your money together and then we can, you know, everybody was on the fence because everybody lives on fees, right? Lenders live on fees, brokers live on fees, sellers live on fees, you know, what have you. So we're all trying, you know, we all have a vested interest. Buyers live on fees, we all have a vested interest to get this deal done. Well, a week came and went and you know, the relationship is no more, but it was just the strangest thing.
• 44:50 - The best deals actually are the ones where you go out, you get the purchase price, you do your marketing, you have a bunch of tours, you have a competitive bidding process. And then once you've agreed on price, on price and terms and the letter of intent, then you just hand it off to the attorneys and then they take it from there.

Dive deep with a former poker professional turned tech entrepreneur, as he shares a riveting journey of scaling a SaaS company in the competitive world of fantasy sports. From a strategic acquisition to multiplying revenues, gear up for insights on growth levers, product development, and the thrills of business gambles that pay off big.

Here are a few topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Cache Flow Podcast.

• Secrets to 50-80x business growth.
• Crucial SaaS metrics for success.
• Content creation that drives views.
• Power of affiliate channels explored.
• Strategic bets in consumer SaaS.

Resources:

• SaberSim
• Curotec 

Connect with Andy Baldacci:

• LinkedIn

Connect with our host, Brian Dainis:

• Linktree

Quotables:

• 08:59 - It's only been recently that I feel like we've really taken much market share from our competitors because when you are telling someone who has made money for years doing things a specific way that the way they're doing it is not good you, it is just not an argument you're gonna be likely to win. And so for where we grew was on the back of all of the serious but still recreational players who tried to figure out these tools and just couldn't get past it. Like even when I try to use 'em now, I don't even know where to begin sometimes and it takes me so much time. So it's like if you're just doing this as a part-time thing, just literally like a couple hours, you have no expectations of going pro or anything else. Like you're not gonna be able to figure it out and it's like bad product.
• 15:56 - Brian: So I want to go back to the poker stuff 'cause that's pretty interesting. I heard the guys on my first million talk about how the degenerate poker players always make the best entrepreneurs.
  Andy: I think I view it as you're going, so one of the biggest things to me is just like prioritization by understanding like probabilistic thinking in the sense of people just always say like, oh this is risky, or oh, this is gonna be like, we're gonna get some benefit out of this. But they don't try to quantify the scale of either the risk or the benefit. Like how big of an impact, neither direction is it, and then how often does that happen? And it's like without those components you miss everything. And it's, it's like when people, casual fans, even serious fans when they talk about like betting on sports, it's like, oh I guess in this Super Bowl it was super close, so it's like not the best example but like any of the times where there's been just a really lopsided matchup, they're like, oh yeah, like earlier I guess in the season it's like the ravens or the chiefs are gonna crush this team.
• 18:17 - Like when people talk about someone being results oriented outside of poker, that's seen as a good thing in poker, that's like a horrible thing. It's you use that as like, oh you're being way too results oriented right now because you cannot control the outcome of this specific hand. You can control your process and just because you lost the hand does not mean you made a bad decision. But in day-to-day life, that is like the opposite lesson that's taught. And so I think that mindset is probably the biggest driver of, of success. But I also think a lot of people with anything, it's like you have the experts in one thing, there's some clever name for it, but it's like experts in one thing assume they're gonna be an expert in the other thing and and it's like rarely do skills transfer one to one or even close to that.
• 42:28 - What actually happens is that we have a very healthy top of funnel that is generating a lot of new customers and they are churning at a very high rate. I mean not like, well I guess some people would say it would be insane, but like say you have a 50% renewal rate after that first month. Okay then what is it after the second month? What about after the third? And there is some point where like they're staying and I think there is a lot we can do on those earlier stages, but because we have healthy top of funnel, it's not an existential problem at all. It is a growth opportunity for us to figure out how do we get these people who might not be, who might be like earlier in their journey up to a place where they can benefit from our tools. 
• 39:59 - I think that's where it's like people get too stuck on just the number without asking like what is it actually measuring? And so part of it is what is, if someone just plays football and just subscribes to us during football and cancels at the end of the season, is that churn? I don't think so. I think it's only churn if they don't come back next season, then they have left us. But like if all they're doing is playing football and they play football with us for the season and then cancel, like that's not true. That is their like contract duration effectively. And like if they leave before that we messed up. But if they leave at the end of the season, like no, like that's not necessarily the case. So seasonality plays a big role in that and it makes it hard to measure what your like true churn is.

Dive into the high-stakes game of business acquisitions with our insightful speaker, who sheds light on due diligence, financial pitfalls, and leveraging government loans. Whether it's about vibrating excitement from snowboarding trips or critical business strategies, this episode is a treasure trove of knowledge for aspiring entrepreneurs and seasoned business buyers alike.

Here are a few of the topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Cache Flow Podcast.

• A deep dive into the acquisition process.
• Exploring SBA loans and financial models.
• Unpacking due diligence best practices.
• Navigating seller relationships and trust.
• Leveraging government loans for growth.

Resources:

• New Image Leasing
• Curotec 

Connect with Will Wilder:

• LinkedIn

Connect with our host, Brian Dainis:

• Linktree

Quotables:

• 22:44 - Yeah, I mean if you look across people looking at business acquisitions, there's a million different ways you can slice it. I think the most important thing is upfront, being really clear about what's gonna work for you. You know, some people will have a very specific business thesis. So they came from software development at, you know, wherever and that they think they have a competitive advantage there.
• 26:41 - You're gonna spend a lot of time like the diligence process from issuing an LOI to actually closing for me was three months and it was like a month and a half before the LOI from when I first heard about the business to actually having an offer that was signed and on everyone's plate. So I mean that's even kind of fast I think, right? Yeah, that's relatively fast. So I mean that was four and a half months combined. But if you end up with a seller that's not gonna sell, you don't believe 'em for whatever reason, there's a big potential that you spend five months, six months chipping away at getting a deal done with someone that's ultimately never gonna happen.
• 41:15 - Most of the cash would come from these investors. They would still largely do lending for 75 or 80% of the deal, but the other 20% would pretty much all come from investors. Those deals would typically be the CEO would get 8% of the company upfront, another 8% based on performance, and typically another 8% on at the backend at sale or other performance levers. So start at eight and potentially go up to 24-ish percent. All of that is negotiable between you and your investors. So not fixed in stone, but that's one model of it
• 50:39 - And those deals can be fantastic. You don't have to have the expertise, you can bring in systems that you've developed elsewhere to help grow the business. You've got a guy running it that really knows it well. So there's a lot of reasons why you would wanna do that. The SBA won't let you, you can have the seller stay on for up to a year. There has been some changes to this, but that's still generally the rule. And really as an employee though, stay on as an employee or even a contractor. And within that year it really has to be focused on transitioning the business.
• 59:58 - So you need to figure that out and there's a bunch of ways that you can work around that, but you don't wanna find that out when you close, you'll wanna see if you have any major customer concentration. That was something that we dealt with here and a lesson learned from me was beyond just getting comfortable that yeah, we have a high, high customer concentration, but they either are contractually obligated to us or there's a reason why they're using us or it'd be really hard for them to switch. You can get comfortable with that. What I didn't do enough about is I really needed to actually get down to all of the leases, individual house leases with that customer. And if I'd done that, I would've understood, great, these guys are awesome, they have a great relationship with us, they're gonna keep using us.