Negotiations for a ceasefire in Ukraine will move into a new phase in the coming week, as delegations from both sides of the conflict prepare for separate mediation talks in Saudi Arabia. 

Meanwhile Russia has continued its drone attacks in Ukraine, targeting the Black Sea city of Odessa, damaging infrastructure. 

The developments come as the future of NATO comes into question, and talk of 'denuclearisation' grows louder, as Donald Trump begins a second term as US President.

GUEST:

Rose Gottemoeller former Deputy-Secretary General of NATO, and the Lowy Institute’s 2025 Distinguished Fellow for International Security.