Careers and the Business of Law

One of the original attorneys in Morgan Lewis's eData practice, Scott Milner counsels and advises companies in electronic discovery and information governance processes and best practices. He works with Morgan Lewis's lawyers across practice groups to tailor strategies and discovery management plans for clients around the globe, in numerous industries and disciplines. Scott's practice encompasses all phases of eDiscovery, from preservation and collection to review and production of large volumes of electronically stored information (ESI).

In episode 002 of Careers and The Business of Law: Legal Data Intelligence Series, David Cowen sits down with Scott Milner to talk about his journey from the early days of eDiscovery to leading Legal Data Intelligence (LDI) at Morgan Lewis. They dive into how eDiscovery started, the development of EDRM, and how tech has been a game-changer in legal processes. Scott points out the key skills needed for the future: being tech-savvy, thinking strategically, and tackling legal challenges head-on. They also talk about how LDI could change the game in legal frameworks and make the most out of data across various legal and compliance areas.

(0:09) - The Birth of eDiscovery. David Cowen hosts Scott Milner to dive into the genesis of eDiscovery and the emerging field of Legal Data Intelligence (LDI). Scott reminisces about the early days when eDiscovery was an unknown frontier, highlighting his collaborative journey with Tess Blair and Morgan Lewis, noting, "it's like we didn't even know what e-discovery was."

(0:43) - A Generation in eDiscovery. Scott reflects on his longstanding friendship and professional rapport with David, marking over two decades in the eDiscovery landscape. He jokes, "I like to pretend I started when I was six years old, right? Because I can't be that old."

(1:16) - Innovating Out of Necessity. In the nascent stages of eDiscovery, Scott and his peers were pioneers, crafting their tools and processes from scratch. "We had to build the technology. We had to build the process."

(3:33) - Evolution of eDiscovery Technology. Scott outlines his journey through various technologies in eDiscovery, from manual processes to sophisticated solutions like Accelerate and generative AI. He expresses enthusiasm for the continuous evolution and integration of tech that enhances legal outcomes.

(5:15) - The Genesis of EDRM. Reflecting on the creation of the Electronic Discovery Reference Model (EDRM), Scott credits the collaborative effort led by George Socha in Minneapolis, highlighting how a gathering of brilliant minds laid the groundwork for standardized practices in eDiscovery.

(6:14) - Defining Legal Data Intelligence (LDI). Scott articulates the mission of LDI as an extension of EDRM, aiming to harness data more comprehensively beyond eDiscovery. He views LDI as a crucial step forward in utilizing eDiscovery frameworks to address broader legal and data challenges like cybersecurity and contract analytics.

(14:13) - The Future of Legal Data Intelligence. As the conversation wraps, Scott contemplates the transformative potential of generative AI in legal operations. He projects a visionary future where eDiscovery principles could revolutionize data handling across various sectors.

Mentions:

• Morgan Lewis: Law firm where Scott Milner works. Morgan Lewis official website

• George Socha: Co-founder of EDRM. George Socha's professional page

• Tess Blair: Entrepreneur in the e-Discovery space. Tess Blair's profile at Practising Law Institute

• Aloe Blacc: Artist of the song "The Man," mentioned by Scott as his outro song. Aloe Blacc's official website

Hal Brooks is an eDiscovery and litigation technology professional with more than 25 years' experience. Currently, Hal serves as the CEO of Haystack Holdings with the mission of helping HaystackID mobilize industry-leading computer forensics, eDiscovery, and attorney document review experts to accelerate and deliver quality outcomes in support of investigations and litigation at a fair and predictable price. Having participated in the acquisition and growth of several industry-leading companies, Hal has helped businesses address challenges in the areas of litigation strategy and automated discovery processes. In 1988, he started with Legal Copies International which grew to 26 cities and $100M a year in revenue as a supplier of onsite and offsite litigation support services. LCI was acquired by (Alco) Ikon Office Solutions in 1996. More recently, Hal invested in and served as a board member and consultant for such companies as OnSite Sourcing, DocuForce, Ve Discovery, Technology Assisted Review software startup OrcaTec, and most recently, Envision Discovery. At these companies, he served in leadership roles helping launch revolutionary technology platforms and directing key strategic business decisions.

In episode 25 of Careers in the Business of Law, Hal shares his transformative journey from battling health challenges in the Carolinas to becoming the CEO of HaystackID with David Cowen. He reflects on the early days of overcoming asthma to pursue an active lifestyle, which paralleled his later professional ventures that required resilience and innovation. Hal discusses his entrepreneurial shift from Xerox to launching and leading companies. Highlighting key career milestones and pivotal influences, Hal underlines the crucial skills of passion, perseverance, and visionary planning essential for next-generation leaders in business and legal operations.

(00:36) Early Influences: Overcoming Health Challenges. As a child in the Carolinas, Hal faced significant health challenges, including asthma and allergies. Despite these obstacles, he found a way to overcome them by gradually increasing his physical activity, ultimately freeing himself from medication and embracing an active lifestyle. Hal's story of perseverance began at his family's dinner table, dreaming of joining his peers outdoors.

(01:59) Entrepreneurial Spark: From Corporate to CEO. Hal's transition from working at Xerox to becoming an entrepreneur started when he met Mark Hahn from Legal Copies. He was drawn into the world of business through a pivotal contract win and the opportunity to build a company from the ground up. Hal learned the intricacies of business from Hahn and his circle, igniting his passion for creating opportunities and building teams.

(02:58) Building Community and Responsibility. During an annual company event in Atlanta, Hal realized the profound responsibility of running a business. The sight of 600 attendees, comprising employees and their families, underscored the real impact of his decisions on their lives. This moment deepened his commitment to his role and to providing for others through his entrepreneurial efforts.

(06:05) Hiring for Passion and Precision in the Legal Industry. Hal emphasizes the importance of passion in the legal services industry, where precision and commitment are paramount. His recruitment strategy focuses on identifying individuals who are not only capable but also passionately engaged in their work, ensuring excellence in service delivery.

(07:25) Guiding Principles in Leadership and Life. In interviews, Hal seeks to understand potential hires' guiding principles and personal benchmarks. He values reflections on personal ethos and historical comparisons, which reveal deep insights into an individual's character and potential fit within the company.

(08:13) A Journey through Faith and Business. Hal discusses his educational background in theology and philosophy, which initially led him toward a career in ministry. However, his desire to make a broader impact and provide for his family guided him toward the business world, where he found his true calling in leadership and entrepreneurship.

(10:05) Advising Future Entrepreneurs: Vision and Reversion Planning. Hal advises aspiring entrepreneurs to start with an exit plan. Understanding the end goal helps in crafting a strategic approach to business development, distinguishing between lifestyle businesses and wealth creation vehicles. His own approach has focused on building enterprises with the potential for significant growth and return on investment.

Mentions:

• Hal Brooks, CEO of HaystackID

• John Davenport Jr., founder of DTI

Xerox - Where Hal previously worked. Xerox Website

Ashley Christakis has 19 years of experience in the Legal and eDiscovery industry. Her roles have included Litigation Paralegal, eDiscovery Project Manager, eDiscovery Program Manager, and Senior Manager, eDiscovery and Legal Operations. Ashley's experience spans each phase of the EDRM in the law firm and in-house settings, including information governance and litigation readiness for key and complex data sources, legal hold management, collection strategy and execution, processing specifications, crafting and iterating on search terms, analytics, document review management, data disposition, and optimization, driving efficiencies in each phase, and drafting and consulting on associated corporate policies and procedures. She enjoys building relationships and collaborating to advance legal technology in support of the business and legal industry. Ashley lives in Malvern, PA, with her husband, two kids, and their assortment of pets.

In episode 001 of Careers and The Business of Law: Legal Data Intelligence Series, Ashley Chistakis talks with David about her path from Law firm marketing to paralegal to legal operations at Siemens, "the art of the possible" in elevating the role of legal ops and eDiscovery, the three legal superpowers-- technology curiosity, relationship building, and a service mindset--that all nextGen legal data intelligence workers will need.

(0:24) The Evolution of Legal Roles. Ashley Christakis introduces her role at CrowdStrike and her dual responsibilities in legal operations and eDiscovery, highlighting her efforts to elevate the legal department by enhancing internal workflows in collaboration with her team and the tech department.

(1:35) Facing Challenges in LegalOps. Discussing the biggest challenges in her role, Ashley points to the need for reimagination and innovation in legal processes, along with the hurdles of technology implementation and workforce management. She emphasizes the broad scope and the inherent difficulties of making decisive choices in her field. "I would say it's the reimagination... it's really hard, at least for me individually, to make a decision."

(3:05) From Childhood Dreams to Legal Innovator. Ashley recounts her unexpected career trajectory from dreaming of being a musician or ballerina to pioneering legal technology and eDiscovery. She draws an engaging analogy between musical roles and departmental functions within a company, illustrating her creative approach to organizational dynamics. "H.R. is the guitar... and we all know that the lead singer is sales."

(6:02) Legal Data Intelligence Explained. Ashley delves into the concept of Legal Data Intelligence (LDI), emphasizing its reliance on nextGen technology to drive improvements in productivity and efficiency within legal operations. She articulates her personal connection to LDI, noting her introverted nature and her passion for the subject. "And so when I raise my hand, it's about something I'm passionate about. And that's LDI."

(10:19) The Superpowers of Legal Professionals. Highlighting the unique qualities essential for roles in legal data and operations, Ashley identifies technology curiosity, relationship building, and a service-oriented approach to internal clients as her professional "superpowers." These traits, she argues, are crucial for navigating the complex intersections of law and technology.

(15:59) Building the LDI Community. Ashley speaks about forming a collaborative group within the realm of Legal Data Intelligence, named the LDI posse, which includes professionals like Farah, Pepper, Omar, and Jeremiah. This group aims to spearhead new initiatives and bring diverse ideas to the forefront of legal operations. "There's at least 30 of us, and we're all uniquely qualified in various ways to present this new initiative."

(21:07) A Personal Note: Life Beyond the Office. Ashley shares personal insights into her daily routine and how she balances professional demands with personal life, emphasizing the importance of maintaining boundaries for work-life balance. She also shares her leisure activities, such as watching TV shows to unwind. "I probably watch either a comedy, like Parks and Recreation, or I watch The West Wing to fall asleep to."

In episode 24 of Careers in the Business of Law, Brian McGovern talks with David about growing up on the ice in Connecticut, getting his first patent, becoming AIG's first Chief Legal Data Officer, what evergreen traits he looks for in new talent, and finally, what his Spotify data reveals about his taste in music.

Today's guest is Brian McGovern.

A pioneer of Legal Operations, Brian led one of the largest global enterprise legal management software implementations to date when he served as Senior Vice President and Legal Chief Data Officer at AIG. Brian is dedicated to partnering with clients to drive success through process improvement, technological innovation, and the sharing of knowledge and best practices he's accumulated – and pioneered – throughout his over 25-year career.

He is a speaker and thought leader, he is obsessed with helping clients navigate the nuances of selecting and implementing legal technology so they can drive meaningful value that positively impacts the entire business.

(0:09) Scientist to Blackbelt to Data Officer. David Cowan welcomes Brian to the podcast. Brian's jungle gym took him all over: roles at Duracell, GE, Credit Suisse, AIG, and now Mitratech.

(1:42) Early Inspirations. Brian's childhood in Connecticut included as much ice time as you'd expect, but it was his love of science and math, rather than hockey, that proved most useful to his future career. But, "the number one thing I wanted to be when I was seven years old was a father, and I got to do that."

(2:50) First Jobs and Formative Experiences. Discussing his first job at a specialty polymer company, Brian talks about the formative nature of his early work. He describes the flexibility and problem-solving skills he developed, which were key in shaping his career: "I got to do some of everything. And it taught me a lot about how to be flexible, how to solve problems." Brian also got his first patent for a high-potential lithium primary cathode.

(4:33) Career Shift to Legal Operations. Brian details his transition into legal operations, highlighting his mathematical and process-oriented approach to problem-solving. He describes the diversity of talent in legal teams as exhilarating and integral to success: "All of them together is really what drives an excellent legal operations group."

(6:03) Setting Up Legal Operations at AIG. Brian recounts his experiences setting up AIG's first comprehensive legal operations, focusing on teamwork and diversity to achieve ambitious goals. He reflects on the collaboration that led to saving "$1.2 billion over five years," showcasing the power of diverse expertise in achieving outstanding results.

(8:17) Role Expansion at Mitratech. Brian talks about the opportunity to scale his impact, interacting with numerous legal departments worldwide. He loves the scope of his role today interacting with hundreds of legal ops teams "I get to talk to them about 'what do they do with training?' What are they doing with technology? What are they doing with data?"

(10:09) Seeking Talent and Adapting to Changes. In his current role, Brian looks for evolving attributes in potential hires, including a solid understanding of AI and regulatory issues. He advises on maintaining curiosity and adaptability: "You at least have to have an idea of what AI is doing... so that you're ready to learn and hit the ground running."

(12:39) Continuous Learning and Radical Curiosity. Brian offers advice on professional growth and learning, advocating for the consumption of media in forms that best suit individual preferences, whether podcasts, videos, or books. He stresses the importance of staying updated and adaptable, especially with emerging technologies like AI and regulatory changes in the legal and tech industries. "Find the things you like because all of those streams have valuable things for you right now."

(16:09) Daily Routine of an Executive Director. Brian outlines a typical day in his life, detailing both travel-heavy and home-based workdays. His schedule is packed with meetings, client interactions, and strategic planning, all aimed at enhancing service delivery and customer engagement at Metrotech. He also emphasizes the importance of family time, particularly attending his son's baseball games. "When I'm working from home, like I am today, I probably have 12-15 meetings a day."

(20:29) Musical Inspirations: U2 and Personal Favorites

Brian shares his musical preferences, giving a breakdown of his Spotify usage data: Billy Joel, Def Leopard, The Pogues, and revealing U2 as his top choice among bands, with "So Cruel" standing out as his favorite song. He reflects on the impact of music on his personal and professional life, noting his recent experience seeing U2 perform live. "If I was going to pick my favorite U2 song, it would be 'So Cruel.'"

Mentions:

• Christopher Nolan's Oppenheimer

• U2's So Cruel

In episode 23 of Careers in the Business of Law, Kelly Griswold talks with David about how her grandmother's approach to painting influences her decisions as CEO today, the importance of surrounding yourself with the right people, and repeatedly returning to the Why questions. They also talk country music and Garth Brooks.

Today's guest is Kelly Griswold.

Kelly is the Chief Executive Officer at Onna, a data management platform company. Prior to joining Onna, Kelly served as Senior Vice President at Axiom spin-out Knowable, where she led the go-to-market function and built the global partnerships and alliances teams. Kelly has also worked in finance and corporate development roles in renewable energy – she was previously the Senior Vice President of Business Development at Sungevity, co-founder of GSSG Solar, and part of the Global Special Situations Group at SunEdison.

0:11 - Introduction

Kelly Griswold, CEO of Onna, joins David Cowen to discuss her vibrant career trajectory and insights into the world of legal tech. Kelly shares her beginnings in the Bay Area and her educational and professional journey across the U.S. and Europe. Kelly reminisces about her childhood in Santa Cruz, describing her early artistic influences under her grandmother's guidance. "I was spending a lot of time with her and had some aptitude for it," she recalls, linking her creative roots in art to her later business acumen.

2:19 - Artistry Meets Entrepreneurship

Kelly explores the parallels between her artists and CEOs. Like using watercolors, both fields require flexibility and an evolving vision.

3:44 - Technology and Transition

Kelly journeys from art and sociology to the world of (math!), finance, and technology. Her story highlights a career filled with calculated risks and pivotal changes, culminating in leadership roles in renewable energy and legal tech.

7:28 - Value of Relationships

In a powerful testament to the importance of professional networks, Kelly credits Alec Guettel as a key influence who reintroduced her to legal tech at Axiom. She underscores the importance of surrounding oneself with trustworthy, inspirational people.

12:54 – Driving Innovation at Onna

Kelly dives into the culture and operations at Onna, emphasizing a learner's mindset and the critical role of understanding customer needs in tech innovation. "It's a constant reminder...do we really understand the Why behind the actions that we're taking?"

14:23 - Design Sprint and Team Dynamics

Kelly recounts a transformative design sprint that fostered team cohesion and innovation at Onna. She highlights the blend of structured creativity and team bonding that characterized this pivotal moment.

16:02 - Country Love

Kelly talks about her unexpected love for 90s country music, particularly Garth Brooks, illustrating her unique personal and professional path.

Mentions:

• Bucknell University: Kelly's alma mater. Bucknell University

• Axiom: A company involved in legal tech. Axiom

• Griswold Inn: Mentioned as a location for a team event. Griswold Inn

• Garth Brooks: Mentioned as a favorite musician of Kelly's. Spotify link

In episode 22 of Careers in the Business of Law, Major Baisden talks with David about his evolution in the industry from building computers to building servers to building companies, always serving the mission of truth, the exploding variety of data sources at play in the market today, and updating proven formulas with the times with Brooklyn rap duo Gang Starr.

Today's guest is Major Baisden.

Major Baisden, a serial entrepreneur and technology enthusiast, is the Chief Executive Officer of Lineal, a global legal technology services company leveraging proprietary artificial intelligence and process-driven workflows to solve information governance, eDiscovery, privacy, compliance, and DSAR for law firms and corporations. He is also the former co-founder and president of Iris Data Services, an eDiscovery firm sold to Epiq Systems in 2015 for $134 million. Baisden currently lends his expertise to connecting Lineal's revenue-related functions, from marketing to sales, customer success, pricing, and revenue operations.

(00:09) - Welcome Major Baisden: David Cowen introduces Major Baisden, a serial entrepreneur in the business of law, engaging him in a lively discussion about his career and his travel. Major recounts how he did about 225,000 miles of travel last year and plans to keep that same cadence this year.

(00:42) - Major's Leadership at Lineal: Major shares his professional journey, detailing his roles from the Department of Justice, to Xact, to creating Iris Data Services and leading Lineal. Major identifies the thruline as "we exist to help law firms make more money, to improve the lives of our clients, and to improve the lives of our employees."

(02:11) - Reflecting on Industry Evolution: Discussing his path through various industry phases, Major highlights what changed and what was different at each rung of his career jungle gym. "The great thing about law is that the legal process doesn't change," emphasizing stability in legal procedures amidst the many dynamic external changes he's weathered. "At the core, we serve a mission of truth."

(05:10) - The Shift to Data-Centric Legal Work: Major addresses the transformation in legal data management, moving from traditional documents to multiple data sources. He explains, "Every tool that you use on a daily basis to get your job done can be a data source," underlining the broadening scope of data in legal processes. Major explains that we're headed to a place where we are retaining knowledge better because everytime we go through the process, we learn something new.

(09:23) - Admiration for Industry Colleagues: Major praises colleagues like Rose Jones and John Tucker at King & Spalding, Scott Milner at Morgan Lewis, and his mentor Andrew Seija from Relativity. "I think as a CEO, you have to have a very healthy dose of 'I could be wrong,' that always lives in your brain, because there's always a different way. And sometimes those different ways are better. And so it's important for me to have a set of people that I go to."

(14:03) - From Childhood Dreams to Tech Entrepreneurship: Major recounts his early East Bay childhood, sitting around the family table and discussing a different article cut from the newspaper every night and dreaming of driving a taxi. His fascination with technology and his journey from aspiring engineer to tech entrepreneur began early. "I started building computers when I was 12. Back in the day, on AOL online, we'd get into chat groups and chat rooms and ask questions on bulletin board systems on how to make computers faster." Major realized in college that he excelled at ideation and later leading teams and before he knew it he was managing whole teams of people running databases.

(18:12) - Career Advice: "The most important thing is to be as self disinterested as possible," he advises, advocating for a selfless approach to professional growth and success. "I am the least important person when I think about identifying objectives."

(20:41) - Favorite music: Concluding the podcast, Major shares his love for 90s classic hip hop and the music of Brooklyn-based duo Gang Starr (Guru and DJ Premier) and his go to song 'You Know My Steez'. "It's not that I like music no one likes, you just probably won't hear it on the radio."

Mentions:

Gang Starr, You know my Steez: https://open.spotify.com/track/2C3QwVE5adFCVsCqayhPW7?si=4e5a0cef3f66416a

Rose Jones: https://www.kslaw.com/people/rose-jones

John Tucker: https://www.kslaw.com/people/john-tucker

Scott Milner: https://www.morganlewis.com/bios/smilner

Andrew Sieja: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrew-sieja/

In episode 21 of Careers in the Business of Law, Stephen Poor talks with David about the long arc of technological change in law, the evolving technical skill sets as well as perennial soft skills, and the growth of the strength of access to justice initiatives such as The Bail Project and the Filing Fair project. They also talk Mississippi Delta blues.

Today's guest is Stephen Poor.

As Chair Emeritus of Seyfarth Shaw, a global law firm, Stephen Poor has significantly contributed to legal innovation, particularly through leading SeyfarthLabs, the firm's R&D arm. Renowned for pioneering SeyfarthLean, a method that enhances legal service efficiency, his leadership from 2001 to 2016 earned him the 2011 Legal Innovator of the Year award. With a foundation in employment law and ERISA litigation, Stephen now shares his expertise on technology's impact on law, change management, and process improvement through writings and his podcast, "Pioneers and Pathfinders." https://www.seyfarth.com/trends/pioneers-and-pathfinders-podcast.html

Music Stephen mentions:

Mississippi John Hurt: https://open.spotify.com/artist/1FdwVX3yL8ITuRnTZxetsA?si=FM6jBiAVSRm_zGf-GvJotQ

Mississippi Fred McDowell: https://open.spotify.com/artist/0elA30wLp3RmiPaGtU2jhQ?si=AqDicv5LTMKTLaPpCBHQpA

Bukka White: https://open.spotify.com/artist/2gSskdDhLQCx3CQd6XKDhp?si=LAiFl6aFQ8Kg2WlYlmc2Qw

Sister Rosetta Tharpe: https://open.spotify.com/artist/2dXf5lu5iilcaTQJZodce7?si=BzrOciq3T9y3GqwwXf5lqA

Blind Willie Johnson: https://open.spotify.com/artist/5kO4xdEKLuHHHPreu3UmkZ?si=NshgryeQRTWplLlq6jDm-w

Access to Justice projects Stephen mentions:

The Bail project: https://bailproject.org/

Filing Fair project (Stanford): https://filingfairnessproject.law.stanford.edu/

Time stamps:

(0:09) - From Yesteryear's Cutting Edge to Today's David Cowen introduces Stephen Poor, Chairman Emeritus of Seyfarth Shaw, discussing the remarkable journey from past legal technologies to today's podcasting age. "When you started your career, did you think that you'd be recording podcasts that would go out into the universe and live forever?" Stephen reflects on the unforeseen advancements in technology and how they've transformed legal practices and reminisces about the early days of his career. "What was cutting edge?...The secretaries had mag card typewriters … which was awesome."

(1:59) - The First Technology Committee Stephen discusses his involvement in his firm's first technology committee, comparing the debates over 25 vs. 33 megahertz computers to today's terabyte-scale discussions, illustrating the rapid evolution of technology in law.

(2:59) - Talent in the Legal Field: Then and Now "The type of talent that you look for...hasn't really changed," Stephen explains. He highlights how attributes like intelligence, curiosity, and connectivity have remained vital, despite massive changes in technology and operations. Stephen points out the significant shift in legal workplaces over the decades, from traditional lawyer roles to diverse professions like data scientists and marketing specialists, enhancing law firms' capabilities and client services.

(5:42) - Evolution vs. Revolution in Law Delving into the dynamics of change in legal services, Stephen discusses the impact of generative AI and other advanced technologies on the legal industry, contemplating whether the changes represent evolution or revolution.

(7:00) - Navigating New Technologies Stephen emphasizes the role of law firms in helping clients navigate the "bewildering array of solutions" presented by generative AI and other emerging technologies, highlighting the importance of adaptability and informed guidance.

(8:28) - The Transformation Ahead Stephen opines that the future of law will be dramatically different, driven by the capabilities of generative AI to change how legal services are provided.

(11:38) - Radical Curiosity in Young Lawyers Stephen discusses the challenges and benefits of the radical curiosity exhibited by the newer generation of lawyers, seeing it as a necessary trait for driving change within the legal profession.

(13:42) - Senior Leaders' Insights In a reflective conversation about senior leadership in law, Stephen shares how experienced leaders exchange insights and experiences that could guide the newer generations facing similar challenges.

(18:09) - Access to Justice and Technology Stephen highlights the role of technology in enhancing access to justice, sharing personal stories and examples of how new tools are making significant impacts in legal accessibility.

(20:44) - Supporting Justice through the Bail Project Stephen discusses his daughter's role as general counsel for the Bail Project, illustrating how nonprofits are utilizing new approaches to reform traditional systems like the cash bail system, advocating for broader participation and support.

(00:13) – "Welcome to the Legal Tech Frontier": David Cowen introduces Drew Armstrong, CEO of Affinipay, discussing the rapid evolution of the legal technology market, Drew's background in law and business, and the impact of AI on the legal profession.

(01:25) - Revolutionizing Legal Practice Management: Drew delves into how Affinipay is transforming legal practice management for solo and small firms. Highlighting Ape's leading technology, ease of use, and customer service, Drew showcases how Affinipay ensures law firms operate efficiently while keeping focus on their clients.

(04:07) - Leadership and Vision at Affinipay: Drew shares her journey to becoming Affinipay's CEO and her personal connection to the legal industry. Her vision to expand Affinipay's offerings beyond payment solutions to comprehensive practice management and financial services is driven by a deep understanding of law firms' needs.

(06:29) - The AI Debate in Legal Tech: Drew provides a balanced perspective on the current state of AI in legal technology. She argues that while AI has the potential to significantly transform legal practices, its hype is both warranted and unwarranted, emphasizing the importance of foundational tech alongside AI advancements.

(12:22) - Evolution of Legal Careers: Reflecting on the shift from legal secretaries to IT professionals, Drew discusses the ongoing transformation of legal roles. She predicts that advancements in technology, especially AI, will not only disrupt traditional roles but also create new opportunities within the legal field.

(14:26) - The Future of Legal Work: Drew speculates on how AI and technology will redefine the tasks and responsibilities of associates and paralegals, emphasizing the enduring need for human judgment and oversight in the legal profession.

(17:32) - Expanding Access to Legal Services: Drew highlights the potential for technology to bridge the gap between the supply of and demand for legal services, making high-quality legal assistance more accessible and affordable.

(19:20) - Embracing Change and Opportunity: In a closing reflection, Drew urges legal professionals to actively engage with technological advancements to remain relevant. She emphasizes the unparalleled opportunities in legal tech for innovation and career development.

(21:28) - A Personal Note: Drew shares her passion for Fleetwood Mac, "Anytime someone says we're gonna do a Stevie Nicks SoulCycle class, you can just sign me up!"

Dru Armstrong is CEO at AffiniPay, a leading fintech company creating payment-based practice management tools. She brings over 17 years of experience in consumer and product technology development and management. She is a proven high-growth leader with a history of creating strong customer experiences while fueling technology growth and market expansions and leads with innovation, diversity and inclusion, and verticalized software.

David Cowen is a 20+-year industry veteran, the host of Careers in the Business of Law (CBL), and the founder of the Cowen Group, a legal services company connecting professionals in the business of law with high-touch opportunities to engage and move their careers from Now to Next. David hosts a weekly Cowen Café virtual gathering and a quarterly conference called The Summit on Legal Innovation and Disruption (SOLID). The Cowen community, a network of decision makers and executives in corporate legal software, practice, and services, is over 1,200 members strong.

Don't miss a moment of CBL by subscribing here: https://open.spotify.com/show/0DXsQqRF4A69Apt0LhxmeQ https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/careers-and-the-business-of-law/id1677153104

In this episode we meet 2 industry veterens that are joining forces again to take on the business of law. Kris and Greg are just 2 of dozens of serial entreprenuers that are taken a 2nd and 2rd bite at the apple. listen as these seasoned pros share their insights and motivations to catch lightening in a bottle again.

In this interview with Joe Green, Chief Innovation Officer at Gunderson dettmer, Joe shares his career journey from aspiring to be a lawyer since he was 7 years old to becoming a legal innovator. He recounts how he initially wanted to be a lawyer, even creating business cards as a child, but eventually realized that practicing law wasn't his true calling.

His transition from practicing law to spearheading an innovation lab of 30 at a prestigious law firm showcases the importance of embracing change and exploring uncharted territories.

Listening to Joe Green's journey will inspire you to pursue your passions, even if it means veering from your initial career path, and to be open to the possibilities that come with evolving industries.