From protesters, to friends, to writing group, to...podcasters? Things got outta hand, y'all! This short reflection episode serves as our attempt to wrap our arms around why we ventured into realms unknown in the first place. Finding a throughline to the very real and very SLOW struggle of hard change as humans is no easy task, but each of us felt honored hearing from 8 extraordinary folks who learned a thing or two from the school of Hard Knocks and were generous enough to share with the world. What we know for sure as we wrap up and move on to what's next in life - none of us are going alone. 

A gigantic THANK YOU to the guests we spoke with, and to the listeners who have shared what it meant to them!

Please download any episodes that you would like to keep long-term, as they will only be available on Podcast platforms thru the end of September 2025. 

Signing off, your fellow changlings,

Leslie, Shai and Erin

Music by The Rough and Tumble, find more at: https://www.theroughandtumble.com/

Write to us at: [email protected]

The theme of “hard change” is no stranger to today’s guest, Charlie. Born Irish-Catholic outside Boston, Massachusetts, he will share with us about battling addiction, coming out of the closet, losing housing, refusing to give up on dreams, and finding out the value of chosen family.

While Charlie bravely recounts deeply personal struggles, he reminds us of how all-too-common they are, and gives insight into what we can do to reach out to each other during these crucial turning points.

A licensed clinical social worker and trauma-informed counselor, Charlie works every day to fight for those that our society chooses to ignore. Erin and Charlie have been friends and chosen family for just over a decade, and she couldn’t be prouder of his hard-won change.

Music by The Rough and Tumble, find more at: https://www.theroughandtumble.com/

Write to us at: [email protected]

While there is nothing linear or straightforward about the work of healing from religious trauma, our guest today bravely walks us through some key things that made it possible for her to begin. Donna and our co-host Erin met over 20 years ago as students at the same ultra-conservative, evangelical Christian university. Donna's path after graduation included teaching English in China, learning Kung Fu martial arts, marrying "outside the church", and breaking free from conservative evangelicalism. 

Donna walks us through some of the fallout that often happens with family when someone leaves the Christian church, and the cost when you dare to shine a light on the patriarchal power structures that enable male domination and abuse. She also gives insight into the things that enabled her "hard change" in life - the gift of reading; the influence of one dynamic professor; the patience of a loving partner. 

A writer, mother, and all around bad-ass woman, we are honored to speak with Donna today about her story!

Music by The Rough and Tumble, find more at: https://www.theroughandtumble.com/

Write to us at: [email protected]

We are honored to welcome Pastor Thomas Dixon to the podcast! It is not hyperbole to say that Pastor Dixon is a true social justice icon in Charleston. For the past twenty plus years, he has been on the streets, in the courtroom, in the boardroom, at city hall, in the churches and at the political party lectern. 

With humility, introspection, and humor, Pastor Dixon tells us how he went from struggling with addiction and a stint in prison to devoting all of his time to making our city and state a more equitable, fair, and compassionate place for everyone.

Music by The Rough and Tumble, find more at: https://www.theroughandtumble.com/

Write to us at: [email protected]

Y'ALL!!  How delightful is THIS: our guests today are The Rough and Tumble (aka Mallory and Scott), the band that kindly provides our music. We talk about the theme song of the podcast, a song that talks about big change. And, we delve into Mallory's personal story, which informs much of the songwriting and philosophy of the band. We hear about family, religion, transformation, endings, healing...the whole thing. A word of warning, though: I (Shai) really messed up the audio at the time of recording. I'm so sorry that Mallory's voice had to be amplified into a weird place; she is worth hearing out, poor audio and all. If you happen to need a joyful presence run through a janky synthesizer, boy do I have a podcast for you. Give it a listen; you'll see what I mean. (And I think it gets better at about the 7 minute mark).

Music by The Rough and Tumble, find more at: https://www.theroughandtumble.com/

Write to us at: [email protected]

We invited our friend Cherry to tell us about a big change she's been through.  She was raised in a very conservative, religious environment, and is now a wildly outspoken and passionate liberal. How does this happen to a person? And what does it feel like? These questions keep us coming back to the microphones and headsets, to talk and to listen. Cherry was a wonderful guest--funny, brash, wistful, and sweet, all rolled into one.  We hope you enjoy the conversation as much as we did. Apologies to our listeners for some of the audio quality, we are still getting that dialed in as an ad-free podcast run by amateurs.

Music by The Rough and Tumble, find more at: https://www.theroughandtumble.com/

Write to us at: [email protected]

How lucky is this?  Our friend Bonnie is a clinical psychologist and she's local!  We basically asked her to come talk about change and then pelted her with questions.  Her decades of work with people in the grind of personal change has brought her to this conclusion: change is slow, slower than you'd expect.  It's possible, though, and worth the work. 

Music by The Rough and Tumble, find more at: https://www.theroughandtumble.com/

Write to us at: [email protected]

Today our co-host Erin talks to us about a major change. I (Shai) will just mention up top here that Leslie and I are a little in awe of Erin. The three of us met on the streets of Charleston as protesters in the wake of George Floyd's murder. We spent years doing weekly counter-protests of a Confederate flagging group, until a construction project recently stopped them showing up. In other words, we'd been around each other for a long time, and Leslie and I probably thought we had a reasonably good sense of Erin's general deal.  Bold, brave, whip smart, unswerving, a veteran, and a motorcyclist. A effortless bad ass, is what I'm saying. We had no idea. Oh, the bad ass part is right. But in order to stand with us in Charleston, Erin had moved through major, often wrenching changes. You are invited to hear about them; you may find yourself as amazed as her co-hosts.

Music by The Rough and Tumble, find more at: https://www.theroughandtumble.com/

Write to us at: [email protected]

Welcome to our podcast!  We are three friends who got interested in the nitty gritty of how change happens at a personal level.  If you’ve ever heard someone say “People don’t change”, and you found yourself being one of the few to disagree (or the only one), then the conversations in this podcast may be something you’ve been waiting for. In a world increasingly dominated by bad news and “us versus them” mentalities, how do we maintain the ability to see each other as human and refuse to give up our own humanity in turn? Profound changes can give us a hint; occasionally a person moves from one category to another (moving from "us" to "them" or from "them" to "us" depending on the perspective). How? Why? What does that say about how porous us/them lines really are, and how can we remember that in such a divided time? So we are going to examine turning points in our own lives, and the lives of our guests, and bring on experts to help us understand. You are most welcome to join us!

Music by The Rough and Tumble, find more at: https://www.theroughandtumble.com/

Write to us at: [email protected]