This week, Susan and Ingrid discuss how each person's version of success differs, but these versions can exist at the same time within an organisation – in fact, for a thriving organisation, that diversity is crucially important. They talk about the mismatch between what we might believe we signed up for and the actual reality of a role, and how organisations can make this clearer for better outcomes for everybody.

Some good questions: 

🎻 When auditioning or interviewing for a role, are we representing that role accurately with our process, and our choice of excerpts and interview questions? This is our first chance to set people up to succeed, by choosing the person who is best for this actual role. Also, clear expectations are vital for psychosocial safety.

🎓 Educators, are we providing opportunities for young musicians that represent the reality of a modern music career? Are we doing education concerts, playing with click tracks, learning to play live with a film? Sometimes we don't even have to teach it – but we do need to talk about the things that make a career in music sustainable.

👥 What is it for, and who is it for? Our training model sets us up to expect a certain set of motivations, but the reality is that our work is mostly for the audience. We need to be united as an organisation around a clear shared purpose.

Find Ingrid at Ingrid Martin and Conducting Artistry

Find Susan at Notable Values

PODCAST TEAM

Production support and audio engineering by Thomas Grayden

Theme music composed by QiQi

Theme music performed by QiQi and Darby Lee

LAND ACKNOWLEDGEMENT

This podcast was recorded on Waawiiyaataanong Country and produced on Wurundjeri Woi Wurrung Country. We pay our respects to Elders past and present, and acknowledge the ongoing impacts of colonisation on Indigenous communities.

This week, Susan and Ingrid share some thoughts and stories about blame, diverse roles, and the fact that everyone is trying their best. It can be so easy with our efficiency-seeking brains to quickly mark out whose "fault" something is, and use simple reductionist language to describe complex situations. In our complex organisations made up of complex people, we need to honour complexity!

🔑 Key Takeaways:

🫵 Avoid binary, 'blameism' language that reduces complexity and generalises experience  - us and them, right or wrong, always or never.

🌺 A blame-free environment is an environment that allows people to take risks for constant improvement, and allows everyone to focus on the big picture of success.

🏔️ Remember that we are on the top of Mt Stupid, and that's ok. Assume competence, assume good will - and be aware of what other assumptions we might be making.

LINKS

Mentioned this week: 

Brene Brown (Feelings) 

Feelings Wheel tool

Adam Grant (Mt Stupid)

Find Ingrid at Ingrid Martin and Conducting Artistry

Find Susan at Notable Values

PODCAST TEAM

Production support and audio engineering by Thomas Grayden

Theme music composed by QiQi

Theme music performed by QiQi and Darby Lee

LAND ACKNOWLEDGEMENT

This podcast was recorded on Waawiiyaataanong Country and produced on Wurundjeri Woi Wurrung Country. We pay our respects to Elders past and present, and acknowledge the ongoing impacts of colonisation on Indigenous communities.

This week, Susan and Ingrid discuss the way just about everybody in an orchestra can feel like they're the only one who knows how hard their job is. This is an intense environment, and it can be easy to forget that the systems in a classical music organisation are as finely tuned and interrelated as the ensembles they support. Join Susan and Ingrid for a chat about how we can appreciate the difficult work of those around us, and gracefully let others know about the work we're doing in our own roles.

🔑 Key Takeaways: 

🔎 Everyone's job has its own complexity - we need to be able to broaden our lens to see what is going on for those around us.

🧩 Everyone starts with just their piece of the puzzle - as leaders, our job is to show the lid of the puzzle box to let everyone know what we're doing, and trust that everyone is playing their puzzle piece to their full potential.

🔧 It is vitally important to recognise the expertise and preparation of offstage staff, in the same way as we recognise the expertise and preparation of instrumentalists.

LINKS

Find Ingrid at Ingrid Martin and Conducting Artistry

Find Susan at Notable Values

PODCAST TEAM

Production support and audio engineering by Thomas Grayden

Theme music composed by QiQi

Theme music performed by QiQi and Darby Lee

LAND ACKNOWLEDGEMENT

This podcast was recorded on Waawiiyaataanong Country and produced on Wurundjeri Woi Wurrung Country. We pay our respects to Elders past and present, and acknowledge the ongoing impacts of colonisation on Indigenous communities.

This week, Susan and Ingrid discuss feedback: what it is, what it isn't, and how to give it to those around us. They discuss how poor feedback is often baked into our pedagogical lineage, and Ingrid shares a story of how an exemplary piece of feedback has shaped her journey as an educator and leader.

🔑 Key takeaways:

🕵️ It's important to be aware of ourselves and our situation, and how that may impact how feedback is received.

🏃 Feedback is actionable – never just a list of mistakes. It's easy to get this tangled!

📨 The way we give feedback matters for everyone in every situation, from the podium to the office to the boardroom.

LINKS

Find Ingrid at Ingrid Martin and Conducting Artistry

Find Susan at Notable Values

PODCAST TEAM

Production support and audio engineering by Thomas Grayden

Theme music composed by QiQi

Theme music performed by QiQi and Darby Lee

LAND ACKNOWLEDGEMENT

This podcast was recorded on Waawiiyaataanong Country and produced on Wurundjeri Woi Wurrung Country. We pay our respects to Elders past and present, and acknowledge the ongoing impacts of colonisation on Indigenous communities.

Join Susan and Ingrid as they launch Season 6 of Change Your Tune, a collaboration between the Change Your Tune Podcast and the Conducting Artistry Podcast. In this first episode, Susan and Ingrid welcome you to this new series of conversations about how to make classical music better for everyone. They discuss their own musical, professional and creative journeys leading to this point, from emergency wards to band rooms, and give you an idea of what you can expect from Change Your Tune in 2026.

LINKS

Find Ingrid at Ingrid Martin and Conducting Artistry

Find Susan at Notable Values

PODCAST TEAM

Production support and audio engineering by Thomas Grayden

Theme music composed by QiQi

Theme music performed by QiQi and Darby Lee

LAND ACKNOWLEDGEMENT

This podcast was recorded on Waawiiyaataanong Country and produced on Wurundjeri Woi Wurrung Country. We pay our respects to Elders past and present, and acknowledge the ongoing impacts of colonisation on Indigenous communities.

In episode 2 of Change Your Tune's collaboration with the Conducting Artistry podcast, Susan and Ingrid discuss the sentiment behind the phrase "Nobody dies at the orchestra", unpacking both its positive motives and its potential for unwanted consequences. They offer some different ways of communicating about acceptance of imperfection in an organisation, and dive into some of their own experiences of perfectionism in the world of classical music.

The main takeaways? 

🤔 Think deeply about the words we use

🎻 Be aware of when our words might be excluding those around us by speaking incorrectly about their experience 

👷 Make sure we have systems in our organisations to back up our catchphrases

LINKS

Find Ingrid at Ingrid Martin and Conducting Artistry

Find Susan at Notable Values

PODCAST TEAM

Production support and audio engineering by Thomas Grayden

Theme music composed by QiQi

Theme music performed by QiQi and Darby Lee

LAND ACKNOWLEDGEMENT

This podcast was recorded on Waawiiyaataanong Country and produced on Wurundjeri Woi Wurrung Country. We pay our respects to Elders past and present, and acknowledge the ongoing impacts of colonisation on Indigenous communities.

ACKNOWLEDGEMENT OF COUNTRY

I acknowledge the Wurundjeri Woi Wurrung people of the Eastern Kulin Nation as the Traditional Custodians of the land on which this podcast was recorded. I pay my respects to their Elders past and present, and I recognise their enduring connection to land, waters, and culture. Sovereignty was never ceded—this always was and always will be Aboriginal land.

ABOUT PETER

Peter Kilpatrick, Director of Audience and Experience at Tasmanian Symphony Orchestra since April 2023, has a rich background in arts administration and marketing, with roles at Tourism Tasmania, Opera Australia, and Australian Youth Orchestra. He holds qualifications in music, marketing, and public policy, and has served on various arts organisation boards.

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Can you imagine transforming burnout into a vibrant career reinvention? Join us as we unravel the inspiring journey of Peter Kilpatrick, Director of Audience and Experience at the Tasmanian Symphony Orchestra. From his early days as a classical musician to his roles with Opera Australia and the Australian Youth Orchestra, Peter's story is one of resilience and adaptability. After facing the challenges of burnout, Peter made the intriguing move into remedial massage therapy, only to find his way back into the arts via communications and marketing, ultimately shaping the brand identity of Tasmania. His experience offers a masterclass in turning life's detours into meaningful opportunities.

Peter's journey isn't just about career pivots; it's also a deep dive into personal growth and leadership. Discover how a transformative leadership program inspired by Brené Brown reshaped his understanding of vulnerability, communication, and self-awareness. We delve into the importance of equipping young musicians with the skills necessary to navigate the competitive music industry, nurturing their potential for sustainable success. Peter shares insights into the power of reflective practice and the role of self-responsibility in fostering professional and personal growth.

Explore the cultural impact of music beyond the stage, as Peter discusses his transition from massage therapy to marketing, and his contributions to Brand Tasmania. Learn how the Tasmanian Symphony Orchestra connects with diverse audiences and enriches community life, moving beyond traditional performances. Peter's passion for music and his enduring involvement with the Glenorchy City Concert Brass band highlight the profound impact music has had on his life's journey, celebrating his 35-year friendship and connections within the music sector. Tune in for an enlightening discussion that intertwines personal transformation with the vibrant cultural tapestry of Tasmania.

LINKS

Find Peter on LinkedIN

PODCAST TEAM

Production Support and Audio Engineering by Thomas Grayden

Theme Music Composed by Danna Yun

Theme Music Performed by Jasper Ly 

RECORDED

Recorded on 10 January 2025

ACKNOWLEDGEMENT OF COUNTRY

This episode was recorded in Tāmaki Makaurau. I acknowledge the mana whenua of Tāmaki Makaurau, Ngāti Whātua Ōrākei, and all iwi of this region. I honour the Indigenous people, their land, waters, and traditions. I also acknowledge their ancestors, the guardians of the past, and their present leaders.

ABOUT DAVID

David is Principal Trumpet with the Adelaide Symphony Orchestra, and has also performed with the Tasmanian, Queensland and Melbourne Symphony Orchestras. He studied trumpet at the Queensland and Elder Conservatories, and also privately with Yoram Levy in Tasmania and Hannes Laeubin in Munich. Before earning a full-time position in the ASO, David enjoyed a12-year career in Orchestral Management and Production. David is married to ASO violinist, Janet Anderson, with whom he has two children, Ella and Billy.

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

David’s story takes a different path from many of our previous guests—rather than stepping away from performing, his journey is one of rising through the ranks within the orchestral world. We dive into his experiences with auditions and trials, exploring how years of working with the orchestra in various roles prepared him for this career-defining moment. David reflects on what it means to join an orchestra where he already felt at home, balancing the comfort of familiarity with the intense pressure of auditions.

Our conversation unpacks the emotional weight of auditions and the value of honest, constructive feedback. We explore how musicians navigate intense scrutiny, learning to address critiques while holding onto their strengths. David shares the mix of relief and elation that came with finally securing his position after multiple attempts, underscoring the role of self-belief and internal readiness in meeting artistic expectations.

Beyond performance, we also explore the less conventional career pathways in music—how stepping into operational roles within an orchestra can provide a fresh perspective. With experience on both sides, David challenges traditional boundaries between musicianship and administration, offering insights into the reality of balancing personal and professional life, particularly when both partners are musicians. Finally, we highlight the often unseen contributions of orchestra administrators, reinforcing the importance of collaboration, gratitude, and community in sustaining a thriving musical career. David’s story is a testament to resilience, passion, and the many ways musicians shape the orchestral world.

PODCAST TEAM

Production Support and Audio Engineering by Thomas Grayden

Theme Music Composed by Danna Yun

Theme Music Performed by Jasper Ly 

RECORDED

Recorded on 06 December 2024 

ACKNOWLEDGEMENT OF COUNTRY

I acknowledge the Wurundjeri Woi Wurrung people of the Eastern Kulin Nation as the Traditional Custodians of the land on which this podcast was recorded. I pay my respects to their Elders past and present, and I recognise their enduring connection to land, waters, and culture. Sovereignty was never ceded—this always was and always will be Aboriginal land.

ABOUT JESSICA

"I am an oboist turned software developer. When I was a musician, I founded and ran JDW Sheet Music and performed all throughout Southern California. As a developer, I create well maintained solutions that address business challenges. My hobbies include reading, and practicing oboe for fun."

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Jessica Wilkins, a musician turned tech enthusiast, joins us to share her fascinating journey from concert halls to coding. With a rich background from the Eastman School of Music and the University of Michigan, Jessica’s career in music was as vibrant as it was entrepreneurial. She ran a successful publishing company in Los Angeles, blending creativity, ambition, and adaptability in ways you wouldn’t expect.

But then, something shifted. Her drive to advocate for Black artists in classical and jazz music sparked an unexpected pivot to tech. After building the Black Excellence Music Project website, Jessica discovered a passion for coding that led her to dive deep into online learning platforms. Faced with the choice between a high-profile gig at Disney or plunging into the tech world, she chose the latter—and hasn’t looked back.

In this episode, Jessica reveals how her self-taught coding journey opened doors in software development. She shares why building real-world projects is key to showcasing your skills and how her transition from freelance musician to full-time tech role taught her the value of navigating team dynamics and setting healthy workplace boundaries. Stepping away from music also gave her space to cultivate personal growth and compassion, which has enriched both her professional life and her creative collaborations.

LINKS

Find Jessica on LinkedIN

blackexcellencemusicproject.com

PODCAST TEAM

Production Support and Audio Engineering by Thomas Grayden

Theme Music Composed by Danna Yun

Theme Music Performed by Jasper Ly 

RECORDED

Recorded on 13 January 2025

ACKNOWLEDGEMENT OF COUNTRY

I acknowledge the Wurundjeri Woi Wurrung people of the Eastern Kulin Nation as the Traditional Custodians of the land on which this podcast was recorded. I pay my respects to their Elders past and present, and I recognise their enduring connection to land, waters, and culture. Sovereignty was never ceded—this always was and always will be Aboriginal land.

ABOUT MARIELLE

Marielle is an experienced strategist, having consulted for more than five years across the private and public sectors in a range of domains from transport to energy. Marielle began her consulting career at Strategy& (formerly Booz & Co) and now works as a commercial advisor at boutique outfit Coughlin Advisory.

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Marielle shares her fascinating journey from the musical stages of the Queensland Conservatorium to navigating complex deals that promote renewable energy in New South Wales. We explore how the collaborative and structured environment of music parallels her current role, where teamwork, strategic planning, and a supportive culture are crucial. Her story offers a unique perspective on balancing macro and micro views in business and music, making for a compelling narrative on the value of diverse experiences.

Listen in as we discuss the emotional and psychological challenges faced by musicians and how these translate into the corporate world. We examine the rigid nature of classical music training and its impact on risk tolerance and emotional skills. Marielle shares insights into the valuable skills musicians bring to the table, like receiving feedback dispassionately, while also highlighting the need for emotional intelligence in professional environments. This conversation underscores the importance of holistic development, blending technical proficiency with emotional resilience for effective collaboration.

Finally, we explore the courage required to transition between careers, likening the process to mastering a musical instrument. Marielle shares her experiences of embracing the unknown and finding freedom in exploring new career paths. We reflect on the intersection of leadership and creativity, emphasizing the importance of technical skills and self-assurance. Through Marielle's story, we learn about the power of self-determination and fulfillment, and the lessons learned during the pandemic about focusing on actionable steps.

PODCAST TEAM

Production Support and Audio Engineering by Thomas Grayden

Theme Music Composed by Danna Yun

Theme Music Performed by Jasper Ly 

RECORDED

Recorded on 13 January 2025