Jennifer Robinson has spent her career working at the intersection of law, power and social change.

An Australian barrister based in the UK, Jennifer is a leading media and human rights lawyer. She represented Amber Heard in Johnny Depp’s UK defamation case against The Sun, acted for Julian Assange for 14 years, and has become a prominent advocate for women confronting violence, abuse and legal systems that too often silence them. She is the co-author of How Many More Women? and features in the documentary Silenced. 

In November 2026, she will receive the Sydney Peace Prize in recognition of her work.

In this ChangeMaker Chat, Jennifer talks about the experiences that drew her to the law and shaped her approach to movement lawyering: working in the law not simply to win individual cases, but as part of a broader effort to change systems and shift power. She explores what #MeToo revealed about the failures of legal systems, including the ways defamation and other laws can be used by powerful people to silence women and journalists.

This is a conversation about what it takes to make a difference when the systems you are trying to change are powerful, entrenched and often stacked against you. Jennifer reflects on the role of law, but also on its limits — and on why lasting change depends on people organising, building movements and working together to shift what is possible.

You can find out more about the Sydney Peace Prize and how to get tickets to be part of the ceremony with Jennifer in November:

https://sydneypeacefoundation.org.au/sydney-peace-prize-gala-dinner-2/

For more information about Silenced and where you can go and see the documentary see:

https://www.silenced-film.com/where-to-watch

You can find out about How many more women - now in its full uncensored version:

https://www.allenandunwin.com/browse/book/Jennifer-Robinson-and-Keio-Yoshida-How-Many-More-Women-9781761471797

Several people mentioned in this episode have previously been on ChangeMakers, and you can listen to their episodes here:

Chanel Contos

Grace Tame

Photo credit: Mark Rogers

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For more on ChangeMakers check us out:

Via our Website - https://changemakerspodcast.org (where you can also sign up to our email list!)

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ChangeMakersPodcast/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/changemakerspodcast/

Threads: https://www.threads.com/@changemakerspodcast

Blue Sky: https://bsky.app/profile/changemakerspod.bsky.social

For more on the books and Amanda’s writing, have a look at:

Her latest book Conscious Tribes: thinking differently about making a difference, and her book with Kurt Iveson -  People Power in Cities - here and via Oxford Uni Press.

Amanda’s website is here https://amandatattersall.com/  - on Medium and Substack 

And - her much earlier book about coalition building - Power in Coalition and via Cornell Uni Press

Amanda is on Socials here:

On LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amandatattersall/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/amanda.tattersall

BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/amandatattersall.bsky.social

Threads: https://www.threads.com/@amandatattersall

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@amanda.tattersall

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Last week in Hong Kong, long time democracy advocates - including Lee Cheuk-yan and Chow Hang-tung - were found guilty of inciting subversion. Along with hundreds of others who were part of the 2019 protests against the Extradition Bill, they have been in jail for many years, imprisoned under the Chinese National Security Law.

Samuel leads a discussion to try and digest what their sentencing means to him, as someone that has not only been inspired by both of these leaders, but has had a long close relationship with Lee Cheuk-yan since he was a child.

In the conversation w explore what their experience might teach us about the qualities that shape why we try to make a difference.

We look at a new book - On Courage by Julia Angwin and Ami Fields-Meyer - and debate its claim that to make a difference requires personal acts of courage and bravery.

In reflecting on Lee and Chow's experience we countenance a different way to look at the qualities we might need to make a difference. We explore whether courage is perhaps best seen as something gathered with others rather than simply a personal quality. Rather than the idea that we need more courage - perhaps we need stronger and better organisations that can help nurture our sense of power and courage together.

The article in the Guardian about Chow Hang-tung is here.

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For more on ChangeMakers check us out:

Via our Website - https://changemakerspodcast.org (where you can also sign up to our email list!)

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ChangeMakersPodcast/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/changemakerspodcast/

Threads: https://www.threads.com/@changemakerspodcast

Blue Sky: https://www.threads.com/@amandatattersall.bsky.social

For more about Samuel:

Personal site: https://www.samuelmchu.com

The Campaign for Hong Kong: https://www.thecampaignforhongkong.org

Democracy in Flight: https://www.democracyinflight.org

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samuelmchu

Twitter/X: https://x.com/samuelmchu

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/samuelmchu

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/samuelmchu

For more about Amanda:

Personal site: https://amandatattersall.com/ 

On LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amandatattersall/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/amanda.tattersall

BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/amandatattersall.bsky.social

Threads: https://www.threads.com/@amandatattersall

Her new books are called People Power in Cities & Conscious Tribes: thinking differently about making a difference.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In public life, we know that people see the world differently — through different opinions, attitudes, beliefs and experiences. But what happens when we become better at embracing those different perspectives? Can changing how we see also change how we make a difference?

Alina Gozin'a is one of Australia's most celebrated photographers, having photographed some of Australia's and the world's most powerful people, like Scott Farquhar, Andrew Forrest, Frank Lowy, Kevin Rudd, Christine Lagarde, and Sam Mostyn.

But her path into photography was anything but conventional. After immigrating from the Soviet Union to Australia, she began her career as a tax adviser at PwC before becoming a renowned photographer, visual storyteller, strategist and advocate for creativity.

In this Chat, Alina explores how that unusual journey has shaped the way she sees — and her ability to move between disciplines, perspectives and worlds. She takes us inside the practice of photography: what it means to really look, to notice what others miss, and to see the same person or situation from different angles.

Together, we explore what those practices might teach us about public life and making a difference.

It’s a conversation that crosses disciplines and experiences, showing how even small shifts in how we see can have a big impact on how we understand the world — and how we work with others.

You can see more about Alina Gonzin'a's work here on her website.

You can follow her art in real time on her instagram page.

You can read her TEDx talk about Creativity here.

Her photo shoot with Christine LaGarde is here.

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For more on ChangeMakers check us out:

Via our Website - https://changemakerspodcast.org (where you can also sign up to our email list!)

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ChangeMakersPodcast/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/changemakerspodcast/

Threads: https://www.threads.com/@changemakerspodcast

Blue Sky: https://www.threads.com/@amandatattersall.bsky.social

For more on the books and Amanda’s writing, have a look at:

Amanda’s website - https://amandatattersall.com/ 

Conscious Tribes: thinking differently about making a difference - https://conscioustribes.net/

People Power in Cities - here and via Oxford Uni Press

On Substack - https://substack.com/@amandatattersall

On Medium - https://amandatatts.medium.com/

And - her much earlier book about coalition building - Power in Coalition and via Cornell Uni Press

Amanda is on Socials here:

On LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amandatattersall/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/amanda.tattersall

BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/amandatattersall.bsky.social

Threads: https://www.threads.com/@amandatattersall

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@amanda.tattersall

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Across the northern hemisphere in summer 2026 there are heatwaves and fires burning at an unprecedented intensity because of climate change. Yet the threats of authoriarianism and polarisation have taken climate change off the political agenda, with movements finding it hard to engage decision makers.

How might we rethink how to build movements in response to climate change? How do we hold urgent needs like aid and support, together with longer term goals of building community resilience and connection? What are climate issues and where should climate action be built?

Samuel and Amanda chew over it all as they try to digest the climate fires.

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For more on ChangeMakers check us out:

Via our Website - https://changemakerspodcast.org (where you can also sign up to our email list!)

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ChangeMakersPodcast/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/changemakerspodcast/

Threads: https://www.threads.com/@changemakerspodcast

Blue Sky: https://www.threads.com/@amandatattersall.bsky.social

For more about Samuel:

Personal site: https://www.samuelmchu.com

The Campaign for Hong Kong: https://www.thecampaignforhongkong.org

Democracy in Flight: https://www.democracyinflight.org

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samuelmchu

Twitter/X: https://x.com/samuelmchu

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/samuelmchu

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/samuelmchu

For more about Amanda:

Personal site: https://amandatattersall.com/ 

On LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amandatattersall/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/amanda.tattersall

BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/amandatattersall.bsky.social

Threads: https://www.threads.com/@amandatattersall

Her new books are called People Power in Cities & Conscious Tribes: thinking differently about making a difference.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Over the past 6 months the Cockroaches Junta Party has taken India by storm, challenging the rule of Modi's BJP in response to its failures in how it runs the Medical exams.

What do those in the West not know about this movement, and what does it have to teach about change? How does it compare to other movements like Gen Z and Arab Spring, and how does it interconnect what it fights for with how it fights.

Samuel and Amanda "digest" some of these questions as they admire and seek to draw lessons from this radically successful movement.

======

For more on ChangeMakers check us out:

Via our Website - https://changemakerspodcast.org (where you can also sign up to our email list!)

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ChangeMakersPodcast/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/changemakerspodcast/

Threads: https://www.threads.com/@changemakerspodcast

Blue Sky: https://www.threads.com/@amandatattersall.bsky.social

For more about Samuel:

Personal site: https://www.samuelmchu.com

The Campaign for Hong Kong: https://www.thecampaignforhongkong.org

Democracy in Flight: https://www.democracyinflight.org

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samuelmchu

Twitter/X: https://x.com/samuelmchu

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/samuelmchu

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/samuelmchu

For more about Amanda:

Personal site: https://amandatattersall.com/ 

On LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amandatattersall/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/amanda.tattersall

BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/amandatattersall.bsky.social

Threads: https://www.threads.com/@amandatattersall

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Dom Kelly has spent almost his entire life advocating for disability rights. He lives with cerebral palsy and he is the founder of New Disabled South based in the US.

He tells us about his extraordinary life story that has moved from rock music to disability justice advocacy, while also offering a history of the US Disability Movement. He talks about the waves of change led by that movement and how they are distinct, and explores the importance of intersectionality in the movement - and the role of difference in building a movement for collective liberation.

If you have ever wanted to know more about the disability movement, including how they were the creators of the magnificent phrase "Nothing About Us Without Us" then this is a chat for you! The disability movement has lessons for us all!

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For more on ChangeMakers check us out:

Via our Website - https://changemakerspodcast.org (where you can also sign up to our email list!)

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ChangeMakersPodcast/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/changemakerspodcast/

Threads: https://www.threads.com/@changemakerspodcast

Blue Sky: https://www.threads.com/@amandatattersall.bsky.social

For more on the books and Amanda’s writing, have a look at:

Amanda’s website - https://amandatattersall.com/ 

Conscious Tribes: thinking differently about making a difference - here and via Hardie Grant

People Power in Cities - here and via Oxford Uni Press

On Substack - https://substack.com/@amandatattersall

On Medium - https://amandatatts.medium.com/

Amanda is on Socials here:

On LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amandatattersall/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/amanda.tattersall

BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/amandatattersall.bsky.social

Threads: https://www.threads.com/@amandatattersall

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@amanda.tattersall

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this digest Amanda and Samuel look at if and when writing and reading help us make a difference. Amanda shares some of her reflections in writing her new book Conscious Tribes, and together they compare the idea of writing as a conversation with the reader and writing as an act of persuasion used to convince the reader of a particular way of thinking.

Borrowing insights from Chris Nolan's adaptation of Homer's Odssey and Hannah Arendt's exploration of public and private, and story, they explore what it means to tell (and retell) our stories, and to share stories with others in mind.

You can find our more and order Amanda's book Conscious Tribes: thinking differently about making a difference here.

========

For more about ChangeMakers check us out:

Via our Website - https://changemakerspodcast.org (where you can also sign up to our email list!)

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ChangeMakersPodcast/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/changemakerspodcast/

Threads: https://www.threads.com/@changemakerspodcast

Blue Sky: https://www.threads.com/@amandatattersall.bsky.social

For more about Samuel:

Personal site: https://www.samuelmchu.com

The Campaign for Hong Kong: https://www.thecampaignforhongkong.org

Democracy in Flight: https://www.democracyinflight.org

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samuelmchu

Twitter/X: https://x.com/samuelmchu

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/samuelmchu

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/samuelmchu

For more about Amanda:

Personal site: https://amandatattersall.com/ 

On LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amandatattersall/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/amanda.tattersall

BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/amandatattersall.bsky.social

Threads: https://www.threads.com/@amandatattersall

Amanda's new books are called People Power in Cities & Conscious Tribes: thinking differently about making a difference.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Peter Garrett was not only the lead singer for one of Australia's most iconic bands, he has spent his life trying to make a difference. He has achieved so much, beginning with protests against Vietnam War and apartheid, to playing a leading role in environmental and anti-nuclear movements, to deciding to join the Australian Labor Party and make change from the inside as a government minister.

In this chat he shares some of what he has done and learnt over those decades of activism, and then, how he is bringing those experiences together to make space for public debate around AUKUS. This UK-US-Australia submarine deal is set to cost Australians more than $360 billion and yet neither the parliament nor the country have had a serious debate about this decision or contemplated alternatives.

Peter talks us through what the people's inquiry is and how it works - and if you are listening and curious you can visit its website to find out more, and even put in a submission to have your voice heard: https://aukuspublicinquiry.com/.

In the chat we talk about Peter's book, which shares more of what Peter has done in both music and politics. Its called Blue Blue Sky and you can find out more and buy it here: https://petergarrett.com.au/big-blue-sky/.

For more on ChangeMakers check us out:

Via our Website - https://changemakerspodcast.org (where you can also sign up to our email list!)

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ChangeMakersPodcast/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/changemakerspodcast/

Threads: https://www.threads.com/@changemakerspodcast

Blue Sky: https://www.threads.com/@amandatattersall.bsky.social

For more on the books and Amanda’s writing, have a look at:

Amanda’s website - https://amandatattersall.com/ 

Conscious Tribes: thinking differently about making a difference - here and via Hardie Grant

People Power in Cities - here and via Oxford Uni Press

On Substack - https://substack.com/@amandatattersall

On Medium - https://amandatatts.medium.com/

And - her much earlier book about coalition building - Power in Coalition and via Cornell Uni Press

Amanda is on Socials here:

On LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amandatattersall/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/amanda.tattersall

BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/amandatattersall.bsky.social

Threads: https://www.threads.com/@amandatattersall

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@amanda.tattersall

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

We jump on the World Cup band wagon to talk about what team support and our collective enthusiasm for it tells us about organisations, associational life and democracy.

Of course, there is plenty to chat about given all the political interference in these games - and we do talk about Trump and his sporting "knowledge" - but we focus on what we know, the analogies and lessons about strong and weak organisations and whether there are lessons for us all in how we make change.

For more on ChangeMakers check us out:

Via our Website - https://changemakerspodcast.org (where you can also sign up to our email list!)

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ChangeMakersPodcast/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/changemakerspodcast/

Threads: https://www.threads.com/@changemakerspodcast

Blue Sky: https://www.threads.com/@amandatattersall.bsky.social

For more about Samuel:

Personal site: https://www.samuelmchu.com

The Campaign for Hong Kong: https://www.thecampaignforhongkong.org

Democracy in Flight: https://www.democracyinflight.org

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samuelmchu

Twitter/X: https://x.com/samuelmchu

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/samuelmchu

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/samuelmchu

For more about Amanda:

Personal site: https://amandatattersall.com/ 

On LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amandatattersall/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/amanda.tattersall

BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/amandatattersall.bsky.social

Threads: https://www.threads.com/@amandatattersall

Her new books are called People Power in Cities & Conscious Tribes: thinking differently about making a difference.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Anna Funder is one of Australia's most successful and accomplished writers. She has used her craft to explore power abuse and people's response, whether through stories about life under the Stasi in East Germany, the rise of Hitler, or by giving voice to the agency of Eileen O'shaughnessy - the wife of George Orwell. In telling new stories about power she has challenged the narratives of the powerful.

In this conversation we explore how her writing is an act of change making, but also what the perspective of a writer might offer to those who seek to make change. Its a celebration of the power of all of us - our ordinary extraordinariness. She also shares how the kind of everyday outrage that we all experience has effected her in particular, driving her to advocate for writing and against the wanton content stealing that is enabling AI and the Tech Bros to make money.

Photo credit: Michele Aboud.

Anna will be part of an Australian speaking tour in August 2026, dates and tickets can be found here: https://thinkable.events/tours/an-evening-with-anna-funder.

You can find out more about Anna's books here:

https://www.annafunder.com/

Anna's closing address at the 2025 Writers Festival, that we mention in the podcast, is here.

For more on ChangeMakers check us out:

Via our Website - https://changemakerspodcast.org (where you can also sign up to our email list!)

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ChangeMakersPodcast/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/changemakerspodcast/

Threads: https://www.threads.com/@changemakerspodcast

Blue Sky: https://www.threads.com/@amandatattersall.bsky.social

For more on the books and Amanda’s writing, have a look at:

Amanda’s website - https://amandatattersall.com/ 

Conscious Tribes: thinking differently about making a difference - here and via Hardie Grant

People Power in Cities - here and via Oxford Uni Press

On Substack - https://substack.com/@amandatattersall

On Medium - https://amandatatts.medium.com/

And - her much earlier book about coalition building - Power in Coalition and via Cornell Uni Press

Amanda is on Socials here:

On LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amandatattersall/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/amanda.tattersall

BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/amandatattersall.bsky.social

Threads: https://www.threads.com/@amandatattersall

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@amanda.tattersall

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.