In this episode of Changing Conversations, Sarah is joined by Professor Haili Hughes - teacher, leader, writer and academic. This is a slower, more reflective conversation. It’s the kind of conversation you fall into, where the threads of experience, identity, leadership and belonging weave together in ways you can only see with hindsight.

Together we explore:

• Haili’s unexpected journey from journalist to teacher, leader, academic and author and how values like truth and justice have always guided her choices.

• The realities of returning to school leadership after several years in national and international roles.

• The tension between alignment and agency in professional development, and how Haili is working to rebuild teacher autonomy through shared mental models and intentional space to think.

• Living in liminal spaces and how that shapes the kinds of relationships Haili builds and the leaders she feels drawn to support.

• Psychological safety, trust and radical candour as the foundations of belonging for staff, students and families.

• Human-centred leadership, what it looks like in practice and why small acts of humanity matter.

• Teacher identity and retention, including early insights from Haili and Sam Gibbs’ research into why teachers stay, not just why they leave.

Connect with Haili on LinkedIn or Substack

Books referenced:

• Ready to Teach An Inspector Calls(with Miriam Hussein)

• Coaching for Decision Making (with Sarah Cottingham & Adam Colbrook)

• Clearing the Path for Leadership (with Michael Child)

• English Teaching Hacks (with Stuart Pryke)

• Mentoring In Schools - How To Become An Expert Colleague

In this episode, I’m joined by Anne-Marie Duguid, creator of Enabling Leaders and long-time collaborator in leadership development across the UK and internationally.

Across the conversation, Anne-Marie shares the story behind creating a new model of leadership learning, one that moves away from “done to” programmes and toward something deeper, more intentional and impactful. With honesty and clarity, she discusses why many leadership initiatives struggle to create lasting change and what it means to build something that leaders can use, own and grow.

We explore:

• Why traditional leadership programmes often fall short and what’s missing in the evidence of impact.

• The jigsaw analogy - understanding the pieces, the conditions and why the final 10% matters.

• The importance of language, culture and precision in developing strong leadership identities.

• How the model works in practice, from strategic insight meetings to creation days, framework development and precise professional conversations.

• Why 90-minute conversations about your own leadership can be unexpectedly transformative.

• What it means to design an approach that is done with leaders, not done to them.

• Stories of impact from schools and systems where the tool has taken on a life of its own.

• The challenges that can “kick the jigsaw,” and how to build stickability.

• The joy and necessity of talking about leadership with clarity, intention and depth.
  

You can find out more about Enabling Leaders through their website (https://enabling-leaders.com/) or connect with Anne-Marie on LinkedIn. 

In this book-filled episode, I sit down with Kathryn Morgann to explore three powerful reads that together form a kind of trilogy for purpose, restoration and reclamation:

• Moral Ambition by Rutger Bregman

• Phosphorescence by Julia Baird

• Women Who Run with the Wolves by Clarissa Pinkola Estés

Through the lens of teaching, leadership and life, they weave a conversation about doing good work without losing yourself in the process — about rooting deeper, not just striving higher.

Books We Explore

Moral Ambition — what does it mean to be ambitious about doing good? How can educators reclaim a sense of moral purpose and agency in systems that often prioritise efficiency over empathy?

Phosphorescence — the healing power of nature, stillness and awe. Julia Baird’s reminder that to sustain our light, we must protect it through quietness, kindness and connection. 

Women Who Run with the Wolves — reconnecting with our wild, creative instinct as the source of vitality and joy. How can we honour that part of ourselves in work and life?

In this episode: 

• Ambition isn’t the enemy of morality — it’s morality’s missing energy.

• The classroom is already moral work: shaping minds and hearts that might change the world.

• Restoration isn’t indulgence — it’s repair.

• The strongest trees don’t stand alone; their roots intertwine.

• The most radical form of moral ambition for women today might be to rest, to be wild, to protect your own light.
  

In this episode, I’m joined by Simon Breakspear to explore what it means to elevate the quality of professional conversations in schools. We discuss why simply spending more time together doesn’t guarantee better collaboration and how schools can make the most of the time they already have.

Simon introduces the idea of weary talk, those moments when teams power down and connection fades and offers simple, sustainable ways to move from weary talk to conversations that energise and build culture.

In this episode:

• Why every collaborative conversation either moves culture forward or stagnates it.

• The signs and causes of “weary talk” and how to notice when it’s creeping in.

• The role of structure and facilitation in creating trust and shared ownership.

• Seven practical tools to guide professional conversations from empathy mapping to stop/start/continue.

• How new leaders can use these tools to build confidence and avoid over-preparing.

• Why preparation isn’t just about slides, it’s about preparing your state, presence and mindset.

• The threads connecting Elevated Conversations, Teaching Sprints and The Pruning Principle.

• Simon’s reflections on the creative process, self-doubt and finding the courage to share your work.

Resources:

• Simon’s website 

• Elevated Conversations – book and free tools

• Teaching Sprints

• The Pruning Principle

You can get 20% off Sarah’s book - Creating a Trauma-Informed Classroom until 31 December 2025 using the code 25EFLY3 at https://www.routledge.com/ 

Teacher and author Sarah Lathan joins me to unpack what a trauma-informed classroom looks like in practice. Drawing on 15 years across additional needs and mainstream contexts, Sarah explains how understanding child development, the brain and the nervous system translates into day-to-day decisions about routines, responses and relationships.

We get into what “trauma-informed” actually means, we tackle common misconceptions (“isn’t this just being soft?”) and make the case that staff wellbeing and school culture are the real enablers. From practical tools to system conditions, this episode is about moving beyond quick fixes and committing to the steady, relational work that supports all learners.

In this episode

• Sarah’s journey through teaching to writing Creating a Trauma-Informed Classroom

• What “trauma-informed” really means 

• Why safety is both physical and emotional, often located in people, not just places

• Holding boundaries without abandoning nurture; dispelling the “softness” myth

• Practical tools

• Pupil voice as genuine agency (not a tick-box) and simple ways to surface it

• Primary vs secondary realities: time, relationships, developmental lens and phone policies

• Culture and values: trust, communication, non-exclusion approaches, working with families

• Staff wellbeing as a condition for relationship-led practice

• Playing the long game: prevention, patience and accepting natural “dips in the graph”
  

Referenced in this conversation

You can get 20% off Sarah’s book - Creating a Trauma-Informed Classroom until 31 December 2025 using the code 25EFLY3 at https://www.routledge.com/ 

• Nurture principles 

• The Resilience documentary

• Pixar’s Inside Out (Joy, Sadness & Bing Bong clip for emotions coaching)

• LEGO “Build to Express”-style activities for pupil voice

In this episode of Changing Conversations, I am joined by Kathleen Johnston - Education Manager, doctoral student and former Quality Improvement Manager for the Northern Alliance. Together, we explore what it really means to collaborate in education and what gets in the way.

From the promise and challenges of the Regional Improvement Collaboratives to the tension between policy intention and system reality, this is a conversation that opens up the complexity of working together in meaningful ways. Kathleen reflects on what she’s learned from both practice and research and how schools, leaders and systems can better create the conditions for collaborative improvement.

In this episode:

• The evolution and aims of the RICs in Scotland

• What meaningful collaboration looks and feels like

• The structures and relational dynamics that enable or inhibit it

• The role of research and reflection in understanding what works

• Why time, trust, and process matter

• Leading with bravery and clarity in busy, demanding systems

• What we can all learn by “unravelling collaboration” in our own contexts
  

Referenced in this conversation:

• Viviane Robinson – theories of action and engaged vs bypass models. Listen to an earlier conversation with Viviane here. 

• Jenny Donohoo – collective efficacy. Jenny also joined us for a conversation on this topic back in September 2020.

What happens when you bring AI into the conversation without rushing to a quick fix? Zahra and Rick from Winning Scotland are holding space for local authorities, researchers and educators to explore the possibilities and the nuance of AI in Education. This isn’t about chasing the latest tool, it’s about understanding the best conditions for change.

What began with curiosity has grown into a two-phase initiative: first, understanding the sector’s readiness and the conditions for success; then, potentially exploring how AI tools might be used in practice.

They share the thinking behind their phased approach, the partnerships they’ve built, the surprising feedback from both education and tech sectors, and why they’re staying agnostic about outcomes. Along the way, they explore the tensions between urgency and caution, and the importance of keeping teachers, pupils, and relationships at the heart of any technological change.

In this episode:

• How an initial spark led to a national, collaborative exploration of AI in education

• Why “is AI ready for Scottish education?” might be the more important question

• The risks of skipping straight to products

• What they’ve learned from speaking to local authorities, unions and tech leaders

• Designing a process that hears all voices

• The role of values in guiding decisions through uncertainty
  

Referenced in this conversation:

• Winning Scotland’s work on Growth Mindset and Planet Youth

• Khan Academy

• Educate Ventures

• The Dots

• Scottish AI Alliance

In this episode, Sarah is joined by three insightful guests: Shirley Clarke, Angela Evans, and Kate Moss, co-authors of Understanding and Reducing Anxiety in the Primary Classroom. Together, they explore the essential link between well-being and learning, drawing from their collective expertise in formative assessment, school-wide compassion, and child and adolescent psychotherapy.

Our conversation dives into the inspiration behind their book, the lessons they've learned from collaborating, and practical strategies for creating compassionate, supportive school environments that truly foster learning and growth. Shirley and Angela also share some reflections from their professional learning programme designed to bring these practices to life in classrooms.

Understanding and Reducing Anxiety in the Primary Classroom is available now.

To connect with Shirley, Angela, or Kate, visit their websites:

Dr Naomi Fisher is an independent clinical psychologist, author and trainer. She specialises in trauma, autism and alternative approaches to education and works with children, adolescents and adults. Find out more at Naomi's website.

In this episode we focus in particular on the mental health of young people and what Naomi has been observing in her work in this area. We discuss the education system and the role it can play in nurturing and supporting learning and wellbeing, but also the harm that some approaches and practices cause to too many young people and the need for change.

Get involved in the conversation by sharing reflections with us on social media or podcast platforms.