Changing the Conversation

"I think awe invites us...to be able to hold both the real pain and tragedy of existence along with the astounding courage and miracles really all around us."

Motivational Interviewing trainers Carol DeFrancesco and Amy Shanahan are back with host Ali Hall for part two of their series on Awe and how the practice connects to MI.

Visit c4innovates.com, subscribe to receive newsletter and training updates, and follow us on LinkedIn and YouTube for more resources to grow your impact.

Learn More:

• Awe: The New Science of Everyday Wonder and How it Can Transform your Life by Dacher Keltner (2023)
• The Power of Awe by Jake Eagle and Michael Amster (2023)
• Eight Facets of Awe
• Power of Awe Website
• On Being Podcast: Dacher Keltner interviewed by Krista Tipett
• On Being Podcast: Mary Oliver interviewed by Krista Tippett
• Awe as a Pathway to Mental and Physical Health by Marla Monroy and Dacher Keltner, Perspectives on Psychological Science (2022)
• Awe, the diminished self, and collective engagement: Universals and cultural variations in the small self, Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, Bai, Y., Maruskin, L. A., Chen, S., Gordon, A. M., Stellar, J. E., McNeil, G. D., Peng, K., & Keltner, D. (2017)
• The Science of Awe (White Paper), Greater Good Science Center
• Awe: a putative mechanism underlying the effects of classic psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy, by Peter S. Hendricks, International Review of Psychiatry (2018)

Access a transcript of Motivational Interviewing 31: Amy Shanahan and Carol DeFrancesco Pt. 2

Listen to other episodes in the "Motivational Interviewing" series.

"It is a momentum…awe experience invites us into curiosity; it naturally then draws you deeper into the experience. Like for me with leaves, look at those. What are they up to? They're reaching towards sunlight. Why is that? Oh, they're photosynthesizing. Well, it's actually the most important biological process on earth."

MINT trainers Amy Shanahan and Carol DeFrancesco join host Ali Hall to discuss growing our practice of Awe, how it opens us up to curiosity and helps us connect with others.

Visit c4innovates.com, subscribe to receive newsletter and training updates, and follow us on LinkedIn and YouTube for more resources to grow your impact.

Learn More:

• Awe: The New Science of Everyday Wonder and How it Can Transform your Life by Dacher Keltner (2023)
• The Power of Awe by Jake Eagle and Michael Amster (2023)
• Eight Facets of Awe
• Power of Awe Website
• On Being Podcast: Dacher Keltner interviewed by Krista Tipett
• On Being Podcast: Mary Oliver interviewed by Krista Tippett
• Awe as a Pathway to Mental and Physical Health by Marla Monroy and Dacher Keltner, Perspectives on Psychological Science (2022)
• Awe, the diminished self, and collective engagement: Universals and cultural variations in the small self, Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, Bai, Y., Maruskin, L. A., Chen, S., Gordon, A. M., Stellar, J. E., McNeil, G. D., Peng, K., & Keltner, D. (2017)
• The Science of Awe (White Paper), Greater Good Science Center
• Awe: a putative mechanism underlying the effects of classic psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy, by Peter S. Hendricks, International Review of Psychiatry (2018)

Access a transcript of Motivational Interviewing 31: Amy Shanahan and Carol DeFrancesco Pt. 1

Listen to other episodes in the "Motivational Interviewing" series.

"Once a person learns how to develop healthy friendships, romantic relationships, then they no longer need chemicals the way they needed them in the past. In fact, I see substance use disorder as a pathological relationship with a chemical that's actually a substitute for true human intimacy."

Speaker, author and educator Mark Sanders explores his personal connection to the history of African American substance use treatment with host Livia Davis, and discusses the challenges facing the behavioral health workforce, from funding and collaboration to what emerging leaders need to know as they enter the field.

This episode is part of a series where we share the wisdom amassed by recovery leaders over the past 5 decades and reflect on the journeys that have laid groundwork for today's recovery movement.

Visit c4innovates.com, subscribe to receive newsletter and training updates, and follow us on LinkedIn and YouTube for more resources to grow your impact.

Learn More:

• On the Mark Consulting
• Online Museum of African American Addictions, Treatment and Recovery
• Treating the African American Male Substance Abuser
• Illinois Certification Board Presidential Award
• 2026 Dr. H. Westley Clark Award for Distinguished Service to the Addictions Treatment Profession from The Association for Addiction Professionals (NAADAC)
• Another Chance: Hope and Health for the Alcoholic Family
• Sharon Wegscheider-Cruse, MA
• William "Bill" L. White
• Slaying the Dragon: The History of Addiction Treatment and Recovery in America | William L. White 2014
• The Annapolis Coalition on the Behavioral Health Workforce
• Dr. Ijeoma Achara, PhD
• Southern Illinois Drug Awareness Conference
• Dr. David Best, PhD
• Carter G. Woodson
• Al-Anon Family Groups
• Dr. Claudia Black, PhD
• My Dad Loves Me, My Dad Has a Disease: A Child's View of Living with Addiction
• Seven Generation Principle
• Brené Brown
• Relationship Detox: A Counselor's Guide to Helping Clients Develop Healthy Relationships In Recovery
• Dr. Stephanie Brown, PhD
• Johann Hari: Everything you think you know about addiction is wrong

Access a transcript of Learning from Recovery Elders: Mark Sanders

Listen to other episodes in the "Recovery Elders" series

"Clinicians…would learn EMDR, but they didn't know how to necessarily do it…there was a need for the how. So the EMDR is the what you do, and the MI is the how you do it."

Expert Trainer Larisa Traga joins host Ali Hall to explore Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR) and how it blends with other evidence-based practices like Motivational Interviewing (MI).

This episode concludes our podcast's latest season. We will be taking a short summer hiatus and will return in the fall with new episodes. Thank you for listening!

Visit c4innovates.com, subscribe to receive newsletter and training updates, and follow us on LinkedIn and YouTube for more resources to grow your impact.

Learn More:

• Larisa Traga, LCSW, CCDS, MAC; Empower TCT, LinkedIn, Instagram
• Ali Hall; website, MINT profile
• Motivational Interviewing: resources from the Motivational Interviewing Network of Trainers (MINT)
• What is EMDR? Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing
• EMDR International Association (EMDRIA)
• EMDR Training and Education | EMDRIA
• Roy Kiessling EMDR Consulting
• Adaptive Information Processing (AIP) Model
• PACE, the Spirit of MI: Partnership, Acceptance, Compassion, and Evocation
• OARS, the core skills of MI: Open Ended Questions, Affirmations, Reflections and Summaries
• Ask-Offer-Ask (AOA)
• More podcast episodes on Motivational Interviewing
• Motivational Interviewing: training opportunities and resources from C4 Innovations

Access a transcript of Motivational Interviewing: Larisa Traga

Listen to other episodes in the "Motivational Interviewing" series.

"Relationships are complicated. Everybody is surviving. Everybody's trying to figure it out. My thought is if we can't figure it out in our space, how are we going to expect the community to figure it out? We have to dive into some really difficult things and do it through the lens of who we are and where we came from." Innovator Cherene Allen-Caraco considers her experiences and the challenges building peer support services in North Carolina in her live conversation with host Ashley Stewart. Visit c4innovates.com, subscribe to receive newsletter and training updates, and follow us on LinkedIn and YouTube for more resources to grow your impact. Learn More:

• Cherene Caraco Joins C4 Innovations
• Promise Resource Network (PRN)
• Assertive Community Treatment (ACT)
• PRN Peer Respite: Retreat @ The Plaza
• Emerald School of Excellence, a recovery high school
• Association of Recovery Schools
• CROWN Act
• Laura Van Tosh LinkedIn
• Learning from Recovery Elders: Laura Van Tosh
• Abolition vs Reform for Public Health
• Abstinence-based Treatment
• Twelve-Step Facilitation
• Harm Reduction
• Jessi Davis

Access a transcript for Building Peer Support Services: Cherene Allen-Caraco

"Most importantly, elevate lived experience. Policy is most effective when it's shaped by the people directly impacted. Remember Faces who are visible, Voices, who are vocal prove recovery is valuable."

Recovery advocate Maryanne Frangules and host Livia Davis delve deep into the history of the Recovery Movement in Massachusetts, from her recovery journey in the 1970's to the founding of the Massachusetts Organization for Addiction Recovery (MOAR) in 1991 to her newest role as Recovery Historian highlighting the giants on whose shoulders we stand.

This episode is part of a series where we share the wisdom amassed by recovery leaders over the past 5 decades and reflect on the journeys that have laid groundwork for today's recovery movement.

Visit c4innovates.com, subscribe to receive newsletter and training updates, and follow us on LinkedIn and YouTube for more resources to grow your impact.

Show Notes:

"A 'mythical' voice for recovery community reflects on career ahead of retirement" | Boston Globe 2024

Massachusetts Organization for Addiction Recovery (MOAR)

MOAR | Our History and Milestones

MOAR | Who We Are

Massachusetts Association of Alcoholism and Drug Addiction Counselors (MAADAC)

Leroy L. Kelly (1941-2016) Obituary

William L. White

Slaying the Dragon: The History of Addiction Treatment and Recovery in America | William L. White 2014

Massachusetts Bureau of Substance Addiction Services (BSAS)

Bay State Community Services

Faces and Voices of Recovery (FAVOR)

National Recovery Month

Mental Health Peer Support Workforce Designline | Jessica Wolf, PhD

Access a transcript of Learning from Recovery Elders: Maryanne Frangules

Thank you for listening to this important conversation honoring the history and voices of the recovery movement. Check out more episodes in the "Learning from Recovery Elders" series!

"The core idea is the growing itself of food and working with the animals. It's there on a farm, it's building connection, it's building skills. It's empowering people, providing oftentimes a real dignity of work in ways that other more traditional services sometimes don't."

Host Livia Davis chats with Andrea Barnhart and Kate Mudge, the co-directors of the Care Farming Network, about the potential for farms as community anchors nurtured by social purpose.

Visit c4innovates.com, subscribe to receive newsletter and training updates, and follow us on LinkedIn and YouTube for more resources to grow your impact.

Learn More:

• Møldrup Farm
• Care Farming Network (CFN)
• CFN Directory
• CFN Resource Library
• CFN Events
• Red Wiggler Care Farm
• GAAMHA, Shawn P. Hayden
• University of Rochester Medicine: What is an IDD?
• Person-Centered Strategies at C4 Innovations

Access a transcript of Care Farming: Andrea Barnhart & Kate Mudge

"There are people that have created those pathways for themselves. We have national leadership now. That national leadership may not have occurred if it were not for the local programs that were funded…10 years earlier." Long-time mental health peer activist Laura Van Tosh and host Livia Davis discuss the history of peer-run programs, the development of the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA) and her hopes for the future of the recovery movement.

This episode is part of a series where we share the wisdom amassed by recovery leaders over the past 5 decades and reflect on the journeys that have laid groundwork for today's recovery movement.

Visit c4innovates.com, subscribe to receive newsletter and training updates, and follow us on LinkedIn and YouTube for more resources to grow your impact.

Learn More:

• Laura Van Tosh: LinkedIn
• Laura Van Tosh: The Life of a Psychiatric Survivor Activist | Mad In America
• Consumer/Survivor-Operated Self-Help Programs: A Technical Report, A Retrospective Review of the Mental Health Consumer/Survivor Movement and 13 Federally Funded Consumer/Survivor-Operated Service Programs in the 1980s
• Consumer Operated Service Program (COSP): A Multisite Research Initiative | Boston University's Center for Psychiatric Rehabilitation
• National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH)
• National Alliance on Mental Illness (NAMI)
• State Mental Health Planning Council
• Protection and Advocacy for Individuals with Mental Illness (PAIMI)
• Protection and Advocacy (P&A) Programs Overview | National Disability Rights Network (NDRN)
• Mental Health: A Report of the Surgeon General (1999)
• Howard H. Goldman
• Obituary for Larry Fricks (June 13, 1950 — August 3, 2025)
• Maryland Office of Consumer Affairs
• National Association of State Mental Health Program Directors (NASMHPD)
• Meadows Mental Health Policy Institute

• BRSS TACS (Bringing Recovery Supports to Scale Technical Assistance Center Strategy)

• Video: October 2024 Mental Health Policy Roundtable "From the ADA to the Ballot Box"
• Video: February 2025 Mental Health Policy Roundtable "No Research About Us Without Us"
• Video: April 2024 Mental Health Policy Roundtable "Pathways to Wellness: America's Youth and Behavioral Healthcare"
• Video: July 2024 Mental Health Policy Roundtable "Navigating Deinstitutionalization: Past, Present, and Future"

Access a transcript of Learning from Recovery Elders: Laura Van Tosh Thank you for listening to this important conversation honoring the history and voices of the recovery movement. Check out more episodes in the "Learning from Recovery Elders" series!

"I love those chapters that are about genuineness, hope and empowerment. Those were just so beautiful to approach in terms of how to have such goodwill towards those we serve." Host Ali Hall and co-author Kristin Dempsey discuss their book Advancing Motivational Interviewing: An Experiential Skills Guide for Mental Health Providers.

• Kristin Dempsey; website, MI Trainings
• Ali Hall; website, MINT profile
• Advancing Motivational Interviewing: An Experiential Skills Guide for Mental Health Providers by Kristin Dempsey and Ali Hall
• William "Bill" Miller
• More podcast episodes on Motivational Interviewing
• Motivational Interviewing: training opportunities and resources from C4 Innovations
• Motivational Interviewing: resources from the Motivational Interviewing Network of Trainers (MINT)
• PESI Trainings from Ali & Kristin

Access a transcript of Motivational Interviewing 29: Kristin Dempsey

Listen to other episodes in the "Motivational Interviewing" series.

"People like Howie the Harp and Sally Zinman... laid that fertile soil for those of us that have come after them, for us to really grow". Attorney and rights advocate LaVerne Miller joins host Livia Davis to discuss her experiences in the recovery movement, the lessons she has learned, and her hopes for the future of the movement. This episode is part of a series where we share the wisdom amassed by recovery leaders over the past 5 decades and reflect on the journeys that have laid groundwork for today's recovery movement.

Visit c4innovates.com, subscribe to receive newsletter and training updates, and follow us on LinkedIn and YouTube for more resources to grow your impact.

Learn More:

• Howie the Harp

• What Are the 4Cs of Mentorship: A Comprehensive Guide

• Cultural Humility (complete)

• Project Liberty Peer Support Initiative

• What is Servant Leadership?

• How to Build Partnerships with Community Organizations - Visible Network Labs

• Creating and Maintaining Coalitions and Partnerships | Community Tool Box

• Helen "Skip" Skipper

• Brandee Izquierdo

• Sally Zinman Papers
• Highlighting Women Leaders of Color: LaVerne Miller

• Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA)
• Changing the Conversation: Next Generation Recovery Leaders

Access a transcript of Learning from Recovery Elders: LaVerne Miller Thank you for listening to this important conversation honoring the history and voices of the recovery movement. Check out more episodes in the "Learning from Recovery Elders" series!