January 18, 2021

Childfree, Not Childless - My Life

1 hour 3 minutes

Omonike is a childfree (by choice) woman - she does not want kids. She talks about aspects of her childfree life and her decision to have a tubal ligation - sterilization surgery which will ensure she never has children. This connection was made on Reddit r/childfree.

Transcript:

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and she found some of our stuff when we

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were kids and

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i think i was in the second grade she

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saw this little booklet i made and had

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all of my aspirations

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for the rest of my life in there was

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like i wanted three kids

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and she showed it to me i was like burn

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it burn it now

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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hello welcome to life is it just me this

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is the podcast where we look at things

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that we all go through things we all

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think about things we all

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have to deal with in life this first

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season has been and still is all about

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the decision as to whether to have kids

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my name is paul i'm joined as always

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by ryan hello ryan hello

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and our guest for this episode is oh

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monica hi monikay

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hello how are you i'm good

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good to have you here thank you so much

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for joining us tell us a bit about

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yourself to start off

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um you know i just turned 35

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last week um happy birthday from last

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week

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i'm a public sector worker uh so i um

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i'm a trainee appraiser for the state of

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illinois and you know by night i have a

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bunch of

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weird hobbies i watch anime

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um i love horror movies uh i am a brony

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a furry uh just a lot of weird stuff i

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like sewing as well i usually sew like

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stuffed animals

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i should one day sell practical things

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right now

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like things but just sitting again

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you're having fun yes oh absolutely yeah

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i think that my little pony episodes

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we'll do in the next season

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i've seen them all because uh obviously

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i've got children and

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and i've got an excuse to watch my

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little pony even though i've watched it

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without them but don't tell anybody

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i think it excuses the wrong word

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desire the want okay take us back to

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your childhood and tell us

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about your upbringing police which we

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know is going to be relevant to the

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conversation we're having today about

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about children um

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at a very normal childhood uh i grew up

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in a two-parent household

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and i mean i don't live with them

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anymore but they're still together

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uh just standard mom and dad uh

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i am the oldest of three children uh i

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have a brother in the middle who's six

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years younger than me and my sister

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is 13 years younger than me she's

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currently a college student

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but i had a very good childhood i

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definitely didn't want for anything i

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got a lot of

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opportunities that others didn't um

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some of which my dad didn't care for

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like video games but

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uh my my mom wanted to have as many

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experiences as possible

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uh uh you know i grew up i guess middle

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upper middle class

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i i don't really know i don't know how

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much my parents made some of my business

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but

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um my mom was a general practitioner

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so a physician and my father was a civil

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engineer both are currently

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hired so you know they

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they made a decent amount of money and i

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grew up going a bunch of different

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places we've been florida like 10 times

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but we've got other places

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we went to nigeria once when i was

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younger because my dad was from

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it was just it was a really happy

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childhood i cannot complain at all about

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my tests

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you described yourself previously as

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being a tomboy

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yeah yeah um

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i guess when i was really young i did

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have

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i guess more female friends than male

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ones like maybe

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elementary school so

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you know we play dolls and things every

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once in a while

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but i remember

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in like the fourth grade whenever recess

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uh we were led up for recess i was

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always playing soccer

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and i was the only girl that played

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soccer

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with a bunch of guns um and it was a lot

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of fun

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um one time i actually kicked a guy

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right in his chin

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it was the guy had a crush on dude

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how did that go definitely a

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psychologist

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that absolutely sucked but he forgave me

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because he was an accident like i'm not

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gunning for your i can't aim i'm sorry

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but no um fast forward to

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i don't remember what i was really into

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in middle school for some reason

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uh that was kind of a blur it was a lot

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of bullying at that time so i didn't

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i guess i try and block it out but in

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high school i made more guy friends i

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had a

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it was a good mix um that's kind of when

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i was getting more into video games

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um i think that's when we got a

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playstation 2 that i kind of shared with

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my brother

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but um i also got kind of been really

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into anime at that time

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i've been watching anime since i was

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eight my neighbor totoro was the first

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anime i ever saw

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um very very cute very very cute movie

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but i started gravitor gravitating more

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towards

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uh like anime and gaming and at the time

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it was more

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console gaming like the playing

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playstation but that's when i started

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developing more and more guy friends

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i've always just like weird things like

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method like uh

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greek roman mythology uh like dinosaurs

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like uh astronomy those were things

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i were interested in so

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it wasn't as much like playing house or

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anything like that

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sure and then going off to college uh

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my my gaming increased

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i found guys to play with most of my

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anime club there was

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guy and you know to this day my

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my friend base is like 95 guy

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and that's you know because i am a gamer

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because i am

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into anime i'm in i am a brony and i'm a

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furry

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and all of those are nerd habits

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and nerd habits are traditionally

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largely white male and heterosexual

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separate

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so um i think that's why i have so many

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guy friends

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and i just always gravitate towards

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kind of nerdy sciencey stuff

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which i can't i won't say is strictly a

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die

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thing um especially not now there are

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quite a few women and like the steps

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i've just never been girly i've never

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you know really played in makeup um i

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don't think my mom let me wear makeup

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ever anyway

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unless i was doing like a ballet recital

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so i know i to this day i still know how

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to put on makeup i just balance it on

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and hope

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i think i wear it like once a year

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the reason i ask these questions about

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your childhood and about about

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how you would see yourself and use the

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word tomboy is that

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having spoken to you previously before

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recording today i feel like it sets the

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scene well it gets it gives us

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an idea of who you are which then leads

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me just to

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ask you just to briefly talk about the

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surgery that you've had and we'll go

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back in time more and explore this

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more later but you've had surgery before

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to prevent yourself from having kids

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um yes in 2016

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um i decided to just go ahead and get

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a tubal ligation and

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there weren't as many options back then

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even though it

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back then sounds like you know 20 years

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ago

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but um

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[Music]

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i always knew i didn't want kids ever

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since middle school

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um and my

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honestly dislike of kids has increased

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since i got older

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now if i see a kid in the street am i

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gonna slap that kid no who does that

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don't do that nothing like that please

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don't do that we do we would like you to

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stay out of

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like trouble yeah no i i have no desire

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to do it it's just

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you know i've always kids just aren't

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appealing to me they just aren't

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something i've ever desired

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um there aren't um i

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i don't i'm not a childless person i'm

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not

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missing something in my mind uh i'm a

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child free person which means i'm very

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happy with that

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like it's like the equivalent of saying

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debtless versus debt-free um when she

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you know people are happy when they're

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debt-free but no one says they're

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debt-less like

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i don't really have debt right now but

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you know one day one day i'll get dead

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that's that's not just compensation

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[Laughter]

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but going back to the surgery i'm sorry

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i i'm a squirrel and i

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wander all over the place that's what

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we're here for so do we

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i um i decided to go ahead and take that

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final step

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uh i think at the time i had marina

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inserted so one of the iuds

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which i knew that i can't remember what

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iud stands for but it's one of the ones

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that are inserted

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there um

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and i decided i'm just gonna go

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permanent because i know i don't want

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kids

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and now the arduous task of finding a

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doctor to do it

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um that is a major complaint

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from child free people specifically

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women um

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you will see a lot of that on the child

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free stuff there are a lot of women who

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do want to get sterilized because they

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know they don't want kids

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they can't find doctors for a variety of

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you know that you'll change your mind

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when you get older you know some just

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say well you gotta have at least three

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kids

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before i stare okay well i don't want

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any so what

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is that it's

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i i won't go super political but it's

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very much an affront on women's choice

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um no one bats deny what a woman says

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hey i'm pregnant

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um regardless of her age if she's 15

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people will still congratulate her

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yet if i'm 30 you'll question me up and

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down the line

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as to what i really want and that

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doesn't make any sense to me

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but luckily for me um i

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was working down in st louis i just

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found a doctor that supposedly would

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sterilize me and i went to him and i

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explained what i wanted i explained my

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choices

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uh and just i've had this for literally

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decades

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this wasn't a sudden i woke up today you

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know what i'm going to have a cubicle

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because i have nothing else to do with

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my time today

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so yeah that didn't happen so

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he says um well you know it's permanent

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right i was like yeah absolutely that's

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why

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um and he asked me a few other questions

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and he came back and he's like you know

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it's permanent right

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like he wanted to shock me or surprise

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him yes i still know that from the five

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minutes ago

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he's like okay i'm done with the song

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and dance um

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you we've got easter or astra i don't

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know how to pronounce it

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and we've got the tubal um i know i

0:11:06.560,0:11:10.240

bilateral self-indected me and butchered

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that word

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um is also a thing now i do not know if

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it was

0:11:13.680,0:11:18.720

then um i hadn't really heard much about

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it i wasn't too familiar with it my

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doctor didn't mention it so it might not

0:11:20.560,0:11:24.640

have been

0:11:20.959,0:11:26.800

as widespread um so he said usher or

0:11:24.640,0:11:28.480

tubal and

0:11:26.800,0:11:30.160

obviously the tubals where they you'll

0:11:28.480,0:11:31.839

clip your tubes and then tie them

0:11:30.160,0:11:34.320

and you pray to god they don't untie

0:11:31.839,0:11:37.839

themselves blew themselves back

0:11:34.320,0:11:39.519

uh with a usher they take these metal

0:11:37.839,0:11:42.320

balls stick them in your uh

0:11:39.519,0:11:44.480

tooth and eventually your skin will kind

0:11:42.320,0:11:46.480

of grow around it completely blocking

0:11:44.480,0:11:47.839

both those two and with the bicep they

0:11:46.480,0:11:51.680

remove your teeth

0:11:47.839,0:11:55.040

um just for those who don't know um

0:11:51.680,0:11:58.560

and the issue with esther

0:11:55.040,0:12:00.800

is it's a metal ball and he asked me are

0:11:58.560,0:12:03.200

you allergic to any kind of metal

0:12:00.800,0:12:04.800

and i said yes many kinds of metal i

0:12:03.200,0:12:06.560

just by wearing jewelry

0:12:04.800,0:12:08.800

unless it's sterling silver or solid

0:12:06.560,0:12:11.200

gold i'm going to break out he's like

0:12:08.800,0:12:12.320

yeah we're not doing after that because

0:12:11.200,0:12:13.920

i don't know how that

0:12:12.320,0:12:16.959

breakout's going to work out inside your

0:12:13.920,0:12:20.079

uterus but let's not find it

0:12:16.959,0:12:24.320

no no no probably for the best

0:12:20.079,0:12:27.040

no um so yeah i chose uh the tubal

0:12:24.320,0:12:28.720

and i came home i told my parents says i

0:12:27.040,0:12:30.079

have to have someone to go with me they

0:12:28.720,0:12:33.200

have to knock me out for that

0:12:30.079,0:12:34.320

someone has to be with me and you know i

0:12:33.200,0:12:36.399

told my mom

0:12:34.320,0:12:37.920

and she's like okay what day are they

0:12:36.399,0:12:38.880

thinking you know i'm pretty sure i can

0:12:37.920,0:12:40.079

get off that day

0:12:38.880,0:12:43.040

you know i could take you down there i

0:12:40.079,0:12:45.200

can do this that's my mom my mom is the

0:12:43.040,0:12:47.760

most giving person i've ever met

0:12:45.200,0:12:48.560

i strive to be like her i'm nowhere

0:12:47.760,0:12:51.839

close to her

0:12:48.560,0:12:52.240

but one day i may get my hair um so she

0:12:51.839,0:12:54.160

was

0:12:52.240,0:12:56.160

all on board and she's very supportive i

0:12:54.160,0:12:57.680

know a lot of childhood people get

0:12:56.160,0:12:59.680

a lot of crap from their friends and

0:12:57.680,0:13:02.560

family and random strangers too

0:12:59.680,0:13:04.320

who are you go away but with friends and

0:13:02.560,0:13:05.839

family it's a lot harder for her and

0:13:04.320,0:13:06.959

i've never gotten i'm very very

0:13:05.839,0:13:09.680

fortunate

0:13:06.959,0:13:10.720

um when the day came for the surgery she

0:13:09.680,0:13:12.720

you know told my dad

0:13:10.720,0:13:13.760

you know uh you know michael i'm going

0:13:12.720,0:13:15.200

with nicky down

0:13:13.760,0:13:17.200

uh down south we're gonna do the

0:13:15.200,0:13:17.839

procedure all of that and he's like

0:13:17.200,0:13:19.440

what's in

0:13:17.839,0:13:21.279

like what was the procedure and she said

0:13:19.440,0:13:22.720

oh it's the tubal ligation

0:13:21.279,0:13:25.040

what's that again and so she had to

0:13:22.720,0:13:27.600

explain it to him a few times

0:13:25.040,0:13:28.480

my dad doesn't have a medical background

0:13:27.600,0:13:31.120

so he's like

0:13:28.480,0:13:32.320

okay i get be careful be safe i'll see

0:13:31.120,0:13:35.360

you when you come back

0:13:32.320,0:13:37.040

um we went down there it was you know

0:13:35.360,0:13:39.040

pretty seamless

0:13:37.040,0:13:40.320

um you know my doctor explained

0:13:39.040,0:13:43.199

everything to my mom

0:13:40.320,0:13:44.959

uh using fancy medical jargon that she

0:13:43.199,0:13:48.560

can understand

0:13:44.959,0:13:50.000

um you know i was out i was back in

0:13:48.560,0:13:51.760

it was of course there was a lot of pain

0:13:50.000,0:13:55.279

when i woke up because

0:13:51.760,0:13:57.040

they did stuff but it wasn't too bad

0:13:55.279,0:13:58.800

i was more tired than anything because

0:13:57.040,0:14:02.880

they used anesthesia

0:13:58.800,0:14:04.639

and i was waking up and recovering and

0:14:02.880,0:14:06.160

my mom said honey we've got to go back

0:14:04.639,0:14:07.760

uh at the time i lived down there so i

0:14:06.160,0:14:09.920

wasn't driving all the way back here

0:14:07.760,0:14:12.000

i was going to maryland heights where i

0:14:09.920,0:14:14.240

live um

0:14:12.000,0:14:16.320

and i remember being crabby i want to

0:14:14.240,0:14:19.120

sleep at the hospital because i was just

0:14:16.320,0:14:19.120

so groggy

0:14:19.199,0:14:22.639

i told my mom later on i know mom you're

0:14:21.519,0:14:23.360

struggling to get me out of this

0:14:22.639,0:14:25.440

hospital

0:14:23.360,0:14:27.040

what you should have told me was honey

0:14:25.440,0:14:28.839

the longer you stay the more it's going

0:14:27.040,0:14:31.839

to cost

0:14:28.839,0:14:31.839

because

0:14:32.690,0:14:40.480

[Laughter]

0:14:38.320,0:14:42.079

but i i know it's a long roundabout

0:14:40.480,0:14:44.000

story but that was the story of my two

0:14:42.079,0:14:46.720

delegation i've never had issues with

0:14:44.000,0:14:47.760

it my only regret is i wish i could have

0:14:46.720,0:14:49.440

had the bicep

0:14:47.760,0:14:50.959

um i believe there's supposed to be more

0:14:49.440,0:14:52.639

benefits i think related to certain

0:14:50.959,0:14:55.680

cancers when you get that

0:14:52.639,0:14:56.000

as well but it wasn't an option for me

0:14:55.680,0:14:57.440

and

0:14:56.000,0:14:58.399

i don't know and i didn't know much

0:14:57.440,0:15:00.240

about it and i don't know if my

0:14:58.399,0:15:03.760

insurance would have covered it at all

0:15:00.240,0:15:06.639

the tubal cost me i think 600 um

0:15:03.760,0:15:07.279

i think it was originally about around 8

0:15:06.639,0:15:09.199

000.

0:15:07.279,0:15:11.680

that's what it said on the bill and then

0:15:09.199,0:15:12.880

insurance cut it down to about you know

0:15:11.680,0:15:14.910

i'm not sure

0:15:12.880,0:15:16.880

i don't think it says it's free but

0:15:14.910,0:15:19.040

[Laughter]

0:15:16.880,0:15:20.480

that's something something for you no

0:15:19.040,0:15:23.519

that's interesting because we've had

0:15:20.480,0:15:26.160

another guest on the show who has had

0:15:23.519,0:15:27.680

um that procedure done um and we're

0:15:26.160,0:15:28.800

going to catch up with her as well to

0:15:27.680,0:15:30.880

find out how that went

0:15:28.800,0:15:32.000

so we've done the before conversation

0:15:30.880,0:15:34.160

yeah and now we're going to have a

0:15:32.000,0:15:36.079

conversation with her for after

0:15:34.160,0:15:37.600

so um which is interesting because

0:15:36.079,0:15:39.199

you're already you're kind of in that

0:15:37.600,0:15:40.320

middle place where you know all about it

0:15:39.199,0:15:41.680

but um

0:15:40.320,0:15:43.519

we were learning for the first time when

0:15:41.680,0:15:45.759

we spoke to her so okay

0:15:43.519,0:15:47.920

really kind of interesting um what

0:15:45.759,0:15:51.600

you're saying even four years ago

0:15:47.920,0:15:55.839

the options were different for you yeah

0:15:51.600,0:15:59.279

and also amazing how medicine changes um

0:15:55.839,0:16:02.160

the issue with the tubal or any other

0:15:59.279,0:16:04.079

uh sterilization is of course it's not

0:16:02.160,0:16:05.440

it doesn't affect your

0:16:04.079,0:16:08.639

sorry to get graphic it doesn't affect

0:16:05.440,0:16:08.639

your periods sure

0:16:16.160,0:16:21.440

um but it doesn't affect that at all and

0:16:19.040,0:16:23.279

i have something called endometriosis

0:16:21.440,0:16:25.120

which just makes life a living hell with

0:16:23.279,0:16:27.600

your period so

0:16:25.120,0:16:29.440

even though i am sterilized that doesn't

0:16:27.600,0:16:31.120

do anything for endometriosis and i knew

0:16:29.440,0:16:31.759

that going in doesn't affect your

0:16:31.120,0:16:34.560

ovaries

0:16:31.759,0:16:36.000

so i'm still on birth control they i'm

0:16:34.560,0:16:37.839

on a new birth control they came out

0:16:36.000,0:16:40.560

with i think early this year

0:16:37.839,0:16:43.199

um and it erased my period so i haven't

0:16:40.560,0:16:46.959

seen the period in

0:16:43.199,0:16:50.160

january awesome

0:16:46.959,0:16:53.279

that's great so most of the year then

0:16:50.160,0:16:54.880

yeah yeah pretty much um i hate the fact

0:16:53.279,0:16:57.519

i have to take something every day

0:16:54.880,0:16:58.240

but you know i go on the alarm system at

0:16:57.519,0:17:00.560

10 pm

0:16:58.240,0:17:05.839

every day it goes off okay i have to

0:17:00.560,0:17:05.839

pause my game

0:17:06.880,0:17:11.120

i want to take you back to your what you

0:17:09.520,0:17:11.679

said about your childhoods and you

0:17:11.120,0:17:15.280

mentioned

0:17:11.679,0:17:16.640

you knew from middle school that you

0:17:15.280,0:17:19.839

didn't want to have kids could you put

0:17:16.640,0:17:23.760

an h on that

0:17:19.839,0:17:23.760

correct well what was that middle school

0:17:24.000,0:17:29.039

probably about 12 i'll say that i think

0:17:26.799,0:17:32.880

you enter high school in 14

0:17:29.039,0:17:32.880

sure um so about 12 12.

0:17:33.120,0:17:38.080

when i was in elementary school so

0:17:36.240,0:17:39.440

like eight or something like that nine

0:17:38.080,0:17:41.840

i'm not sure

0:17:39.440,0:17:43.440

um i didn't played with other kids i was

0:17:41.840,0:17:46.880

a kid but

0:17:43.440,0:17:47.840

it started it just was appealing less

0:17:46.880,0:17:50.080

and less to me

0:17:47.840,0:17:51.919

i just wasn't really a kid person

0:17:50.080,0:17:53.440

especially like really really young kids

0:17:51.919,0:17:57.039

and even babies

0:17:53.440,0:17:59.039

um i i babies don't really

0:17:57.039,0:18:00.080

appeal to me any either i'm not going to

0:17:59.039,0:18:02.080

say babies are horrible

0:18:00.080,0:18:03.440

creatures or anything like that these

0:18:02.080,0:18:06.400

aren't for me

0:18:03.440,0:18:07.440

um and they cry a lot so that they cry

0:18:06.400,0:18:10.799

and i'm not

0:18:07.440,0:18:10.799

not excited after that

0:18:11.520,0:18:15.600

um but at that time i just i just

0:18:13.520,0:18:18.320

realized it wasn't something i wanted

0:18:15.600,0:18:19.679

before that like in elementary school

0:18:18.320,0:18:21.679

when i was really young

0:18:19.679,0:18:22.960

i i wanted kids because that's what you

0:18:21.679,0:18:25.280

do uh

0:18:22.960,0:18:28.480

it's what everybody does and you know

0:18:25.280,0:18:31.440

obviously my parents did the same thing

0:18:28.480,0:18:32.160

and so my my i think it's a few years

0:18:31.440,0:18:34.799

ago my

0:18:32.160,0:18:36.160

since my mom retired she retired first

0:18:34.799,0:18:37.120

uh she's been going through their big

0:18:36.160,0:18:38.720

huge basements

0:18:37.120,0:18:40.320

and going through everything and trying

0:18:38.720,0:18:42.559

to get rid of stuff and trying to clean

0:18:40.320,0:18:44.080

it just do a huge deep clean down there

0:18:42.559,0:18:46.640

and she found some of our stuff when we

0:18:44.080,0:18:48.080

were kids and i think i was the second

0:18:46.640,0:18:49.919

grade she saw this little

0:18:48.080,0:18:51.440

booklet i made and it had all of my

0:18:49.919,0:18:54.160

aspirations for

0:18:51.440,0:18:56.160

the rest of my life at the age of like

0:18:54.160,0:18:57.840

seven or whatever area

0:18:56.160,0:18:59.600

and in there was like i wanted three

0:18:57.840,0:19:00.799

kids and she showed it to me i was like

0:18:59.600,0:19:05.840

burn it

0:19:00.799,0:19:05.840

now i never want to see that again wow

0:19:06.080,0:19:11.600

she didn't actually burn it no but

0:19:09.440,0:19:12.960

she um found it funny that she found

0:19:11.600,0:19:14.960

this um

0:19:12.960,0:19:16.080

and i was like yeah that's me that's

0:19:14.960,0:19:19.360

where my mind was

0:19:16.080,0:19:22.640

then but it changed a lot so um

0:19:19.360,0:19:25.679

just getting older i never had

0:19:22.640,0:19:26.880

that desire and i won't say i'm not a

0:19:25.679,0:19:29.280

nurturing person

0:19:26.880,0:19:30.880

i'm very nurturing towards my family

0:19:29.280,0:19:32.799

towards my friends

0:19:30.880,0:19:35.919

towards my hedgehog that hates me i

0:19:32.799,0:19:35.919

still love her um

0:19:36.160,0:19:40.000

yep she's in the other room she's asleep

0:19:37.919,0:19:43.679

right now today

0:19:40.000,0:19:45.440

um but i so i'm a very nurturing caring

0:19:43.679,0:19:48.240

person just

0:19:45.440,0:19:48.720

not as much towards little humans like i

0:19:48.240,0:19:52.160

0:19:48.720,0:19:52.480

i told paul before i used to work uh

0:19:52.160,0:19:54.880

when

0:19:52.480,0:19:55.919

i took taekwondo a few years ago i would

0:19:54.880,0:19:58.000

help the

0:19:55.919,0:19:59.280

them train some of the kids like some of

0:19:58.000,0:20:01.440

the advanced kids

0:19:59.280,0:20:02.880

so i did work with kids a lot of those

0:20:01.440,0:20:05.760

kids were good kids

0:20:02.880,0:20:06.960

um one had some one had issues i

0:20:05.760,0:20:08.960

couldn't really deal with him

0:20:06.960,0:20:10.799

and two were just lazy but most of them

0:20:08.960,0:20:13.760

were really good kids so

0:20:10.799,0:20:15.039

it as an adult i i have worked with kids

0:20:13.760,0:20:18.480

i've worked with kids uh

0:20:15.039,0:20:21.440

at my church back in my literature um so

0:20:18.480,0:20:22.880

i stay i don't care for kids but i used

0:20:21.440,0:20:24.320

to say i hate kids and i don't think

0:20:22.880,0:20:27.679

that's

0:20:24.320,0:20:30.159

correct anymore um they just

0:20:27.679,0:20:31.600

aren't for me they aren't really my

0:20:30.159,0:20:34.960

favorite thing

0:20:31.600,0:20:38.480

like i'll see a kid in public and

0:20:34.960,0:20:40.640

i'll kind of walk this way

0:20:38.480,0:20:42.080

around i'm not gonna say anything i'm

0:20:40.640,0:20:45.600

not gonna do anything

0:20:42.080,0:20:47.919

um but they just

0:20:45.600,0:20:48.799

i if you show me your baby i'm not going

0:20:47.919,0:20:51.679

to fawn

0:20:48.799,0:20:53.440

over it uh if you well if you say oh

0:20:51.679,0:20:56.559

here's my baby i'll oh it's you

0:20:53.440,0:20:56.559

i will say that to people

0:20:57.520,0:21:01.360

no who does that but i'm not going to go

0:21:00.240,0:21:03.840

out of my way to

0:21:01.360,0:21:04.480

hold it and cuddle it and and do all

0:21:03.840,0:21:07.760

it's just

0:21:04.480,0:21:10.559

it's just and i think i learned that in

0:21:07.760,0:21:12.400

middle closing yeah do you think that

0:21:10.559,0:21:17.520

was around about the same time

0:21:12.400,0:21:19.120

that your youngest sibling came along

0:21:17.520,0:21:21.280

well she drove me nuts maybe that was

0:21:19.120,0:21:23.520

hard

0:21:21.280,0:21:24.480

because i have my brother in the middle

0:21:23.520,0:21:26.159

but

0:21:24.480,0:21:28.159

we always got along really well he's a

0:21:26.159,0:21:30.320

gamer like me um

0:21:28.159,0:21:31.840

he's an angry gamer but he's a gamer

0:21:30.320,0:21:32.880

like me because he reads quitting all

0:21:31.840,0:21:34.400

the time

0:21:32.880,0:21:36.080

you can hear him because he still lives

0:21:34.400,0:21:38.080

with my parents so you can hear him

0:21:36.080,0:21:39.840

yelling all manner of first words

0:21:38.080,0:21:41.360

from his bedroom at night and he's

0:21:39.840,0:21:44.720

telling the people but

0:21:41.360,0:21:47.360

my sister and we get along fine now

0:21:44.720,0:21:48.559

um and she's finishing up her last year

0:21:47.360,0:21:50.480

at washington i think

0:21:48.559,0:21:52.480

it's business and fashion uh those are

0:21:50.480,0:21:55.520

her majors but

0:21:52.480,0:21:56.799

just i think i had to help with her a

0:21:55.520,0:21:59.120

little bit

0:21:56.799,0:22:00.400

i definitely wasn't one of those people

0:21:59.120,0:22:03.200

that

0:22:00.400,0:22:04.880

like the the oldest of like six kids and

0:22:03.200,0:22:05.760

their parents were either working all

0:22:04.880,0:22:08.080

the time

0:22:05.760,0:22:09.520

or they're just flipping lazy and they

0:22:08.080,0:22:12.799

make the older kids they essentially

0:22:09.520,0:22:12.799

take care of the younger one

0:22:15.120,0:22:20.000

um no like my my mom would say i'm

0:22:18.960,0:22:21.840

running to the store

0:22:20.000,0:22:24.240

can you watch your siblings for an hour

0:22:21.840,0:22:26.640

and i was like you know 13 or 14 so i'm

0:22:24.240,0:22:30.240

old enough to do that

0:22:26.640,0:22:31.760

that was the extent of me caring for my

0:22:30.240,0:22:34.000

siblings i was like okay it's an hour i

0:22:31.760,0:22:35.440

could do that

0:22:34.000,0:22:37.280

but so yeah you know i learned how to

0:22:35.440,0:22:39.600

change diapers and things like that

0:22:37.280,0:22:40.799

uh with my sister with my brother i

0:22:39.600,0:22:42.159

think i was sick so i probably didn't

0:22:40.799,0:22:44.320

learn this

0:22:42.159,0:22:46.080

at the time but for my sister definitely

0:22:44.320,0:22:48.240

and you know i helped with that

0:22:46.080,0:22:50.320

um i did minor things everyone saw i

0:22:48.240,0:22:53.280

feed her or something like that but

0:22:50.320,0:22:54.640

it i it definitely wasn't a case where i

0:22:53.280,0:22:57.679

know some child people

0:22:54.640,0:22:59.919

child free people are like that because

0:22:57.679,0:23:01.200

they essentially have to be parents to

0:22:59.919,0:23:01.840

their siblings because they didn't have

0:23:01.200,0:23:05.200

a choice

0:23:01.840,0:23:06.640

that's also not it's not the case with

0:23:05.200,0:23:08.000

0:23:06.640,0:23:10.000

that was something that i had i'd

0:23:08.000,0:23:11.360

wondered when i saw the the age gap

0:23:10.000,0:23:12.960

between you and your siblings whether

0:23:11.360,0:23:14.960

that had been the case that you'd had to

0:23:12.960,0:23:16.480

take care of the youngest sibling

0:23:14.960,0:23:18.640

and that's you kind of got out your

0:23:16.480,0:23:20.080

system i'd wondered if that was

0:23:18.640,0:23:21.919

what part of your decision-making

0:23:20.080,0:23:23.919

process but it's nice to hear that like

0:23:21.919,0:23:24.720

there's that wasn't an influence for you

0:23:23.919,0:23:27.360

it was

0:23:24.720,0:23:27.919

no you've always just felt sure about

0:23:27.360,0:23:30.640

yourself

0:23:27.919,0:23:31.919

and yeah you feel yeah to me what

0:23:30.640,0:23:35.200

strikes me as

0:23:31.919,0:23:35.520

has been so so striking i guess i i work

0:23:35.200,0:23:36.799

0:23:35.520,0:23:38.799

secondary school as people call them

0:23:36.799,0:23:42.320

here i work with

0:23:38.799,0:23:43.520

young people who imagine who are 11 12

0:23:42.320,0:23:47.039

13 the sort of age

0:23:43.520,0:23:48.080

you are to me i can't imagine having a

0:23:47.039,0:23:50.720

conversation with

0:23:48.080,0:23:51.679

with one of those pupils and they for

0:23:50.720,0:23:54.480

them to be

0:23:51.679,0:23:55.360

as sure as it seems that you are and

0:23:54.480,0:23:57.120

you're

0:23:55.360,0:23:59.360

or you where i guess and your your

0:23:57.120,0:24:01.360

mindset back then can you think of

0:23:59.360,0:24:02.960

can you think of a point when you

0:24:01.360,0:24:04.320

realize that was the case or

0:24:02.960,0:24:06.240

can you perhaps think of what was

0:24:04.320,0:24:09.919

influencing you at the time that then

0:24:06.240,0:24:10.640

made that mindset stick unfortunately i

0:24:09.919,0:24:13.760

don't know if i

0:24:10.640,0:24:15.360

can i just i think i was gradually

0:24:13.760,0:24:17.679

realizing that's not really

0:24:15.360,0:24:19.600

my thing uh it definitely wasn't

0:24:17.679,0:24:22.799

something i was thinking about too much

0:24:19.600,0:24:26.240

as a middle schooler um i think

0:24:22.799,0:24:27.919

it manifested itself more in high school

0:24:26.240,0:24:29.279

i know that inkling was there in middle

0:24:27.919,0:24:31.440

school but

0:24:29.279,0:24:32.880

i guess it got stronger in high school

0:24:31.440,0:24:35.039

um i had some

0:24:32.880,0:24:36.480

you know female friends who said because

0:24:35.039,0:24:37.840

i would tell people all the time i don't

0:24:36.480,0:24:38.400

like kids i don't like kids i don't like

0:24:37.840,0:24:40.080

0:24:38.400,0:24:41.440

and they would say yeah you're gonna be

0:24:40.080,0:24:42.400

the first one of us to get pregnant

0:24:41.440,0:24:43.039

you're not even gonna make it out of

0:24:42.400,0:24:45.039

high school

0:24:43.039,0:24:47.039

and you'll be pregnant uh and they would

0:24:45.039,0:24:48.000

constantly tease me about that and high

0:24:47.039,0:24:52.000

school ended

0:24:48.000,0:24:52.000

and all three of them got pregnant

0:24:54.159,0:25:00.320

that's like i don't know if i can middle

0:24:55.919,0:25:02.240

finger but yeah

0:25:00.320,0:25:03.760

so yeah i got that teasing in high

0:25:02.240,0:25:07.120

school but that

0:25:03.760,0:25:08.720

i think it manifested itself more in

0:25:07.120,0:25:11.279

high school because

0:25:08.720,0:25:13.360

that's generally a time where people can

0:25:11.279,0:25:14.080

get pregnant or well i'm sorry i do get

0:25:13.360,0:25:17.200

pregnant

0:25:14.080,0:25:19.520

or get someone pregnant um

0:25:17.200,0:25:21.600

i yeah i guess talked about more about

0:25:19.520,0:25:23.600

that period doesn't it

0:25:21.600,0:25:25.039

yeah i i thankfully do not remember

0:25:23.600,0:25:25.919

anyone in my middle school getting

0:25:25.039,0:25:27.679

pregnant

0:25:25.919,0:25:29.279

because that's i mean it it is

0:25:27.679,0:25:31.520

physically possible

0:25:29.279,0:25:32.720

but that's a horrifying concept to me

0:25:31.520,0:25:35.120

that you're

0:25:32.720,0:25:36.000

12 and you're pregnant or you're 12 and

0:25:35.120,0:25:37.919

you've got someone

0:25:36.000,0:25:39.440

pregnant that's it yes i know it can

0:25:37.919,0:25:43.120

happen it has

0:25:39.440,0:25:45.120

but i think that's why it was

0:25:43.120,0:25:46.400

that's when i first got the idea in my

0:25:45.120,0:25:48.400

mind but

0:25:46.400,0:25:50.559

it wasn't uh something i thought of a

0:25:48.400,0:25:51.600

lot in this yeah not a fully developed

0:25:50.559,0:25:53.279

concept but

0:25:51.600,0:25:55.360

definitely in the back the seed of it

0:25:53.279,0:25:57.279

was like

0:25:55.360,0:25:58.559

because it wasn't it wasn't in my the

0:25:57.279,0:25:58.880

forefront the forefront you know that

0:25:58.559,0:26:01.120

was

0:25:58.880,0:26:03.440

was getting bullied a lot so that was in

0:26:01.120,0:26:06.320

the forefront of my mind at the time

0:26:03.440,0:26:06.320

um and

0:26:06.720,0:26:11.039

even like adults they don't they don't

0:26:09.200,0:26:12.240

really talk to you about having kids and

0:26:11.039,0:26:13.360

things like that when you're in middle

0:26:12.240,0:26:15.200

school

0:26:13.360,0:26:16.400

most don't talk to you about that like

0:26:15.200,0:26:18.080

no one in my family

0:26:16.400,0:26:19.919

no one in my church they're not talking

0:26:18.080,0:26:21.120

to us about having kids in high school

0:26:19.919,0:26:23.679

either

0:26:21.120,0:26:25.120

they want us to not do that they want us

0:26:23.679,0:26:26.799

to go off to college

0:26:25.120,0:26:28.400

or trade school or the military or

0:26:26.799,0:26:32.240

whatever you care about sure

0:26:28.400,0:26:33.440

uh so that inkling was there in middle

0:26:32.240,0:26:35.520

school but it

0:26:33.440,0:26:37.120

i think i expressed it a lot more in

0:26:35.520,0:26:38.960

high school because that was definitely

0:26:37.120,0:26:42.400

the time where it was

0:26:38.960,0:26:44.559

more common to have a kid

0:26:42.400,0:26:45.919

a monarchy i want to ask you about

0:26:44.559,0:26:46.799

something you mentioned before when we

0:26:45.919,0:26:49.919

were

0:26:46.799,0:26:51.600

prepping for for this this episode

0:26:49.919,0:26:53.039

you spoke about a misconception that

0:26:51.600,0:26:55.360

exists we met

0:26:53.039,0:26:57.039

through reddit we met on a i think it

0:26:55.360,0:26:58.559

was a child-free subreddit

0:26:57.039,0:27:00.640

and you you said that there's a

0:26:58.559,0:27:02.320

misconception that if you are a

0:27:00.640,0:27:05.360

child-free person

0:27:02.320,0:27:07.520

that you immediately hate children where

0:27:05.360,0:27:10.799

does that come from

0:27:07.520,0:27:12.400

um there's a lot of theories i don't

0:27:10.799,0:27:14.320

know if there's any specific like

0:27:12.400,0:27:16.559

scientific research to back this up so

0:27:14.320,0:27:20.320

this is probably going to be anecdotal

0:27:16.559,0:27:23.679

um and i think part of it

0:27:20.320,0:27:26.960

involves society um society

0:27:23.679,0:27:28.320

our society as americans very very

0:27:26.960,0:27:31.679

kid-centric

0:27:28.320,0:27:34.480

um we are uh

0:27:31.679,0:27:36.559

just a lot of leeway for kids and for

0:27:34.480,0:27:38.960

you know a lot of people who have them

0:27:36.559,0:27:40.960

so and it's just again it's also it's

0:27:38.960,0:27:42.000

often expected you are going to grow up

0:27:40.960,0:27:45.360

get married

0:27:42.000,0:27:50.000

kids retire die that's your life

0:27:45.360,0:27:50.000

congrats um done you did a good job

0:27:51.919,0:27:58.880

oh my god i'm dying um don't do it

0:27:55.679,0:28:02.799

i'm not finished speaking to you

0:27:58.880,0:28:03.760

they killed me this conversation pushed

0:28:02.799,0:28:06.399

her over the edge

0:28:03.760,0:28:06.399

never happened

0:28:07.039,0:28:12.240

um but no

0:28:10.240,0:28:14.840

that is if you're not having kids you

0:28:12.240,0:28:18.799

automatically hate kids

0:28:14.840,0:28:18.799

and it's

0:28:19.520,0:28:24.399

i think a big part of it is society just

0:28:22.640,0:28:26.080

how can you not want kids you must be a

0:28:24.399,0:28:29.440

child-hating monster

0:28:26.080,0:28:31.200

and it's it's not at all true there are

0:28:29.440,0:28:32.559

some people who don't care for kids in

0:28:31.200,0:28:34.480

varying degrees

0:28:32.559,0:28:36.399

and i'm probably a terrible person

0:28:34.480,0:28:40.480

asking because i'm not a fan of kids

0:28:36.399,0:28:42.799

but i don't outright hate them

0:28:40.480,0:28:44.799

um there are a lot of people who work

0:28:42.799,0:28:46.480

with kids they are teachers they are

0:28:44.799,0:28:49.440

nannies or au pairs

0:28:46.480,0:28:50.080

they volunteer big brothers big sisters

0:28:49.440,0:28:52.320

0:28:50.080,0:28:54.080

so there are a lot of people who regular

0:28:52.320,0:28:54.559

social workers they regularly work with

0:28:54.080,0:28:56.240

kids

0:28:54.559,0:28:59.440

and they love kids they just don't want

0:28:56.240,0:29:02.799

their own there are some people who

0:28:59.440,0:29:05.440

are about strangers kids but

0:29:02.799,0:29:07.440

like they are the cool uncle or aunt and

0:29:05.440,0:29:11.360

they love their nieces and nephews

0:29:07.440,0:29:12.720

um there are some people who just flat

0:29:11.360,0:29:15.760

out do not like kids

0:29:12.720,0:29:18.480

and that's fine too but it is like

0:29:15.760,0:29:19.679

with most things it is a spectrum there

0:29:18.480,0:29:21.919

are people on

0:29:19.679,0:29:22.799

one side on the other and many many in

0:29:21.919,0:29:26.080

the middle

0:29:22.799,0:29:28.559

um so i think just the fact

0:29:26.080,0:29:30.399

that especially a woman if she doesn't

0:29:28.559,0:29:31.520

want kids she must be a child-hating

0:29:30.399,0:29:34.559

monster

0:29:31.520,0:29:35.520

um it's there's a lot of misconceptions

0:29:34.559,0:29:36.960

about women that

0:29:35.520,0:29:39.360

especially if they aren't married by a

0:29:36.960,0:29:40.320

certain time and you're a baron spencer

0:29:39.360,0:29:44.000

that's you know

0:29:40.320,0:29:44.000

a crabby witch that lives in the floor

0:29:44.240,0:29:48.080

i do so hope that that is changing like

0:29:46.399,0:29:49.919

modern society should be getting around

0:29:48.080,0:29:51.360

to the fact now that

0:29:49.919,0:29:53.840

everybody has different choices they're

0:29:51.360,0:29:55.600

making different choices and that's okay

0:29:53.840,0:29:59.440

like i'm not really sure

0:29:55.600,0:30:02.559

why we're so slow to change but

0:29:59.440,0:30:02.559

well we're american so

0:30:02.720,0:30:05.840

speak for yourself that's all i have to

0:30:04.080,0:30:10.159

say

0:30:05.840,0:30:13.200

and yes i say that as an american um

0:30:10.159,0:30:15.360

then won't get into politics but our

0:30:13.200,0:30:17.440

politics

0:30:15.360,0:30:19.520

our politics are well on display right

0:30:17.440,0:30:21.520

now well the thing is it's the same in

0:30:19.520,0:30:22.159

our country is very much a 50 50-50

0:30:21.520,0:30:24.480

split

0:30:22.159,0:30:25.200

in our country at the moment and where

0:30:24.480,0:30:27.919

we had

0:30:25.200,0:30:29.279

a a big vote for leaving europe or

0:30:27.919,0:30:32.720

staying in europe

0:30:29.279,0:30:34.399

and so you can see that the

0:30:32.720,0:30:36.720

society as a whole does seem to be in

0:30:34.399,0:30:38.159

that transition period they're fractured

0:30:36.720,0:30:39.840

there's half people who believe another

0:30:38.159,0:30:42.080

thing or half people it's maybe not even

0:30:39.840,0:30:43.760

a belief structure it's just

0:30:42.080,0:30:45.360

it just i think it's a very good

0:30:43.760,0:30:47.120

representation of how

0:30:45.360,0:30:50.000

society at the moment is on a pivotal

0:30:47.120,0:30:53.760

point where it could go either way

0:30:50.000,0:30:55.440

and um i suppose in a hundred years time

0:30:53.760,0:30:57.919

when people looking back that'll be an

0:30:55.440,0:30:58.480

exciting thing to look back on and we'll

0:30:57.919,0:31:00.399

not

0:30:58.480,0:31:02.000

but we don't realize kind of where we

0:31:00.399,0:31:04.480

are in that point in history right now

0:31:02.000,0:31:06.320

so transitional yeah it's very

0:31:04.480,0:31:08.240

transitional i think it's it's very

0:31:06.320,0:31:10.240

evident by the fact that

0:31:08.240,0:31:12.080

big western countries like america and

0:31:10.240,0:31:15.039

britain

0:31:12.080,0:31:17.279

are split right down the middle um and

0:31:15.039,0:31:19.519

on the viewpoints of things and

0:31:17.279,0:31:20.960

probably children and child care and

0:31:19.519,0:31:21.440

having children and all those things

0:31:20.960,0:31:23.519

i'll be

0:31:21.440,0:31:25.039

included in that kind of spectrum that

0:31:23.519,0:31:27.679

you're talking about

0:31:25.039,0:31:28.240

with um that just difference of her

0:31:27.679,0:31:31.120

opinion

0:31:28.240,0:31:32.000

with like yeah exactly it's really

0:31:31.120,0:31:34.720

interesting

0:31:32.000,0:31:35.919

monica and what you said a number of

0:31:34.720,0:31:40.159

those

0:31:35.919,0:31:43.200

sort of images um really

0:31:40.159,0:31:46.480

really what's the word um

0:31:43.200,0:31:48.880

epitomize ryan and i in the sense that

0:31:46.480,0:31:50.240

you spoke about teachers who who do

0:31:48.880,0:31:51.519

their job and they love their job and

0:31:50.240,0:31:52.080

they work with with children young

0:31:51.519,0:31:53.840

people

0:31:52.080,0:31:55.440

and they don't know or they don't want

0:31:53.840,0:31:57.760

to have kids and i'm sort of in that

0:31:55.440,0:31:59.600

boat right now where i don't know myself

0:31:57.760,0:32:00.320

he spoke about ryan you swear you spoke

0:31:59.600,0:32:02.480

about

0:32:00.320,0:32:03.600

um people want to be the cool uncle or

0:32:02.480,0:32:06.159

the cool aunt and that's

0:32:03.600,0:32:07.840

where i was yeah a few years back yeah

0:32:06.159,0:32:09.360

absolutely in previous episodes he's

0:32:07.840,0:32:10.640

dialed into that and spoken about it

0:32:09.360,0:32:13.120

had to have spoken at a great length

0:32:10.640,0:32:14.240

about that it's so interesting that that

0:32:13.120,0:32:16.640

permeates throughout the world i

0:32:14.240,0:32:18.159

wondered um a monarchy what your

0:32:16.640,0:32:21.360

experience is

0:32:18.159,0:32:22.399

have you had have you have you had

0:32:21.360,0:32:25.039

people who have

0:32:22.399,0:32:26.080

been affronted by your decision have you

0:32:25.039,0:32:27.840

had people who have

0:32:26.080,0:32:29.360

basically said that well as a child-free

0:32:27.840,0:32:32.640

woman you must

0:32:29.360,0:32:35.279

hate children i

0:32:32.640,0:32:36.240

thankfully haven't in part because i've

0:32:35.279,0:32:38.559

said that myself

0:32:36.240,0:32:40.240

back when i was saying i hate kids

0:32:38.559,0:32:42.480

that's what i would say i hate kids

0:32:40.240,0:32:43.919

so i didn't give you a chance to tell me

0:32:42.480,0:32:47.120

that i just

0:32:43.919,0:32:49.679

take that but

0:32:47.120,0:32:51.200

just again i've been extremely fortunate

0:32:49.679,0:32:53.440

because i read a lot of

0:32:51.200,0:32:54.880

you know the other stories on that sub

0:32:53.440,0:32:56.559

specifically

0:32:54.880,0:32:58.960

um and a lot of people aren't as lucky

0:32:56.559,0:33:02.000

as me um they're just affronted on

0:32:58.960,0:33:03.440

all sides by friends by family by that

0:33:02.000,0:33:04.399

lady in the grocery store that can't

0:33:03.440,0:33:07.679

mind your own business

0:33:04.399,0:33:10.559

it really doesn't make any sense but um

0:33:07.679,0:33:13.440

so i i verbally have told people i'm not

0:33:10.559,0:33:16.480

a kid person i'm just not a fan of kids

0:33:13.440,0:33:20.799

but excuse me but i've never

0:33:16.480,0:33:23.440

been really um

0:33:20.799,0:33:25.840

i've never been like attacked for my

0:33:23.440,0:33:25.840

choice

0:33:26.640,0:33:29.840

yeah it's and again i'm very fortunate

0:33:29.279,0:33:31.200

i'm very

0:33:29.840,0:33:33.039

lucky in that regard because a lot of

0:33:31.200,0:33:35.039

people don't get that um

0:33:33.039,0:33:36.399

you know i told people you know i just

0:33:35.039,0:33:39.200

don't want kids okay

0:33:36.399,0:33:40.080

a few people you know ask why um and

0:33:39.200,0:33:42.000

i'll just say

0:33:40.080,0:33:43.919

i'll just explain they aren't for me

0:33:42.000,0:33:45.360

they're not i'm not interested in them i

0:33:43.919,0:33:47.840

don't want to be a parent

0:33:45.360,0:33:48.480

and they say oh and we talk about

0:33:47.840,0:33:51.679

something else

0:33:48.480,0:33:54.799

which is how it should be um but

0:33:51.679,0:33:56.960

yeah there are some people that uh

0:33:54.799,0:33:59.840

just and now these are stories i've read

0:33:56.960,0:34:04.159

unlike reddit so these aren't my stories

0:33:59.840,0:34:06.720

just from a boss or a co-worker or

0:34:04.159,0:34:08.159

uh or family member you know why aren't

0:34:06.720,0:34:10.800

you having kids

0:34:08.159,0:34:11.839

you know you that's what women are

0:34:10.800,0:34:14.159

supposed to do

0:34:11.839,0:34:15.839

or you know you should be carrying on

0:34:14.159,0:34:19.040

the family name you know if you're male

0:34:15.839,0:34:21.200

or female or male respectively um it's

0:34:19.040,0:34:23.760

or i want grandkids or you know whatever

0:34:21.200,0:34:23.760

it may be

0:34:24.000,0:34:29.679

and i feel so awful for those people

0:34:27.200,0:34:29.679

because

0:34:30.560,0:34:34.560

how does your how how does me have it

0:34:33.200,0:34:36.560

not having his affect you

0:34:34.560,0:34:38.399

how's that affect your life yeah i i

0:34:36.560,0:34:40.960

often wonder why people who have

0:34:38.399,0:34:41.599

absolutely no investment in your life at

0:34:40.960,0:34:45.119

all

0:34:41.599,0:34:46.079

feel like they have a say in your life

0:34:45.119,0:34:48.480

like you're saying the women in the

0:34:46.079,0:34:49.679

grocery store for example why like she's

0:34:48.480,0:34:52.000

never going to see you again why does

0:34:49.679,0:34:54.159

she care

0:34:52.000,0:34:55.599

well how dare you not fit the mold

0:34:54.159,0:34:57.760

that's what i would and some people

0:34:55.599,0:34:57.760

think

0:34:58.079,0:35:02.079

it's yeah some people are like just you

0:35:00.240,0:35:03.760

know this is what we do as human beings

0:35:02.079,0:35:04.880

you need to fall in line some people

0:35:03.760,0:35:06.640

have that

0:35:04.880,0:35:09.440

i understand you know some you know

0:35:06.640,0:35:13.520

parents want grandkids to spoil

0:35:09.440,0:35:16.480

um but that was definitely my experience

0:35:13.520,0:35:17.920

my mom was definitely when you're having

0:35:16.480,0:35:19.599

when you're having grandkids

0:35:17.920,0:35:22.880

ryan when's that happening you've got

0:35:19.599,0:35:22.880

married so surely

0:35:22.960,0:35:27.200

so that's the yeah it was a bit of an

0:35:25.119,0:35:28.720

expectation but that that i know my mum

0:35:27.200,0:35:29.280

so that she's obviously going to be like

0:35:28.720,0:35:31.040

that

0:35:29.280,0:35:32.880

but other people weren't very pushy

0:35:31.040,0:35:35.440

about it like my mum is

0:35:32.880,0:35:36.400

i've lauren to herself and that's okay

0:35:35.440,0:35:38.000

um and she's

0:35:36.400,0:35:40.240

she's got some investment in my life so

0:35:38.000,0:35:43.359

she you know she's allowed to have

0:35:40.240,0:35:44.000

um a say but random people on the street

0:35:43.359,0:35:47.200

or even

0:35:44.000,0:35:47.680

friends that like you see you see them

0:35:47.200,0:35:49.839

but

0:35:47.680,0:35:51.359

they don't live your life for you so how

0:35:49.839,0:35:52.320

can they say what you should and

0:35:51.359,0:35:54.000

shouldn't do

0:35:52.320,0:35:56.240

i mean this the reason why we did this

0:35:54.000,0:35:58.240

podcast was one not to be judgey in any

0:35:56.240,0:36:01.359

way we just find it really interesting

0:35:58.240,0:36:03.920

how seemingly mundane topics or

0:36:01.359,0:36:05.520

seemingly everyday topics um

0:36:03.920,0:36:07.200

there's different walks of life

0:36:05.520,0:36:08.720

different people different um

0:36:07.200,0:36:11.280

thought processes and it's the thought

0:36:08.720,0:36:12.560

processes that spark our enthusiasm on

0:36:11.280,0:36:15.920

this because

0:36:12.560,0:36:17.599

um the why is kind of the interesting

0:36:15.920,0:36:20.960

part of this for us

0:36:17.599,0:36:22.320

um and that's probably evident in the

0:36:20.960,0:36:25.040

kind of questions we've asked you

0:36:22.320,0:36:26.880

um about your childhoods and your

0:36:25.040,0:36:28.000

thought process and decision making

0:36:26.880,0:36:29.920

process

0:36:28.000,0:36:31.200

um is there anything else you could

0:36:29.920,0:36:33.359

pinpoint

0:36:31.200,0:36:34.400

uh or is it just do you think your own

0:36:33.359,0:36:37.280

personality

0:36:34.400,0:36:39.359

that is is the reason for it that it's

0:36:37.280,0:36:41.680

there's no kind of external factor it

0:36:39.359,0:36:43.680

just is who you are

0:36:41.680,0:36:45.520

i think it really is more who i am i was

0:36:43.680,0:36:49.440

never pressured to

0:36:45.520,0:36:51.119

have children um and the people who

0:36:49.440,0:36:52.560

throw in their two cents i have no

0:36:51.119,0:36:54.240

problem ignoring them

0:36:52.560,0:36:55.839

because it's easy to throw in your two

0:36:54.240,0:36:58.480

cents when

0:36:55.839,0:36:59.359

you lose nothing when you're not vested

0:36:58.480,0:37:01.599

in it

0:36:59.359,0:37:03.119

um so yes easy for oh you have cute you

0:37:01.599,0:37:04.960

know babies

0:37:03.119,0:37:07.119

you aren't raising them though are you i

0:37:04.960,0:37:10.960

wish it would be all my

0:37:07.119,0:37:12.240

i could lose and i especially as a woman

0:37:10.960,0:37:14.160

in the modern era

0:37:12.240,0:37:15.760

i think more and more women are thinking

0:37:14.160,0:37:16.960

about

0:37:15.760,0:37:19.200

actually thinking about whether they

0:37:16.960,0:37:21.599

want kids when they want kids and

0:37:19.200,0:37:23.599

because more and more there's so much

0:37:21.599,0:37:27.359

information at your fingertips

0:37:23.599,0:37:29.760

and you can see what it takes to

0:37:27.359,0:37:31.920

raise a kid not just financially but

0:37:29.760,0:37:35.200

there are a lot of other costs to it

0:37:31.920,0:37:36.240

um and so i i know those costs i don't

0:37:35.200,0:37:40.160

want

0:37:36.240,0:37:42.400

it's not worth it to me and so i know it

0:37:40.160,0:37:44.240

my mind isn't going to change and i'm

0:37:42.400,0:37:47.359

very fortunate that i have parents

0:37:44.240,0:37:50.160

that um support me in that decision

0:37:47.359,0:37:50.880

i actually had a conversation like that

0:37:50.160,0:37:52.640

i was

0:37:50.880,0:37:54.320

uh visiting my parents you know weekly

0:37:52.640,0:37:57.760

visit over at their house

0:37:54.320,0:38:00.960

um and my sister had to be there and

0:37:57.760,0:38:03.680

yeah we were talking about dating

0:38:00.960,0:38:05.119

and my sister and i and my dad just

0:38:03.680,0:38:08.160

happened to walk in the room

0:38:05.119,0:38:12.240

and she brought up some goofy

0:38:08.160,0:38:15.599

dating uh dating service where it was

0:38:12.240,0:38:17.119

like men pay and you go

0:38:15.599,0:38:18.560

i don't know it was very weird it was

0:38:17.119,0:38:19.839

something i was like that'll sit right

0:38:18.560,0:38:22.880

with me that's weird i want men paying

0:38:19.839,0:38:22.880

me for dates that's freaky

0:38:23.200,0:38:26.320

i don't know i'd be okay if you paid me

0:38:24.640,0:38:28.640

for if you paid me for a date i think

0:38:26.320,0:38:30.000

i'd be okay with that

0:38:28.640,0:38:32.960

i was gonna ask what's your wife gonna

0:38:30.000,0:38:32.960

say yes i

0:38:41.280,0:38:45.680

and you're making money for it maybe

0:38:42.880,0:38:46.079

maybe it was a very weird thing that my

0:38:45.680,0:38:47.359

sister

0:38:46.079,0:38:49.839

brought up my dad happened to walk in

0:38:47.359,0:38:50.240

the room and he's like what the heck are

0:38:49.839,0:38:52.320

you

0:38:50.240,0:38:53.520

talking about that sounds weird can we

0:38:52.320,0:38:56.400

explain

0:38:53.520,0:38:57.520

um so what was the name of that that

0:38:56.400,0:39:00.960

happened

0:38:57.520,0:39:00.960

let me just remember

0:39:08.960,0:39:12.800

how do you feel about us you know

0:39:11.200,0:39:13.359

getting married and everything and he's

0:39:12.800,0:39:14.560

0:39:13.359,0:39:18.160

you don't have to get married or have

0:39:14.560,0:39:18.960

kids to be happy to fulfill myself your

0:39:18.160,0:39:20.560

mom

0:39:18.960,0:39:22.079

and that honestly surprised me because

0:39:20.560,0:39:24.000

my dad's nigeria

0:39:22.079,0:39:26.400

um they're they're very big on they

0:39:24.000,0:39:29.280

don't necessarily have big family

0:39:26.400,0:39:30.400

um all the nigerian uncles and aunts i

0:39:29.280,0:39:32.400

know here in the state

0:39:30.400,0:39:33.680

they have three or fewer kids they don't

0:39:32.400,0:39:37.040

have big men okay

0:39:33.680,0:39:39.920

so um but the fact that they're very

0:39:37.040,0:39:41.040

family-centric that surprised me when he

0:39:39.920,0:39:43.200

said that to me

0:39:41.040,0:39:45.040

i was like are you are you wait what i

0:39:43.200,0:39:47.680

mean i'm sterilized anyway so that's

0:39:45.040,0:39:49.680

just sale but

0:39:47.680,0:39:51.440

he's like yeah i don't care if you have

0:39:49.680,0:39:52.880

ever get married if you ever have kids

0:39:51.440,0:39:54.640

it's up to you

0:39:52.880,0:39:56.640

maybe he just wanted you to know that he

0:39:54.640,0:39:59.280

was still on your side regardless

0:39:56.640,0:40:01.040

yeah i i was very i was very pleased i

0:39:59.280,0:40:02.640

was just surprised i was like

0:40:01.040,0:40:04.160

aren't you supposed to you know get

0:40:02.640,0:40:05.839

married and pass on the family he's like

0:40:04.160,0:40:06.240

well maybe like in the 80s or whatever

0:40:05.839,0:40:07.520

but

0:40:06.240,0:40:10.400

we've gotten past that we don't care

0:40:07.520,0:40:11.920

anymore but okay cool that that worked

0:40:10.400,0:40:13.599

i think an an argument for that is

0:40:11.920,0:40:15.680

probably how many failed marriages has

0:40:13.599,0:40:17.760

been since like the 80s to now

0:40:15.680,0:40:19.680

from what and people have stayed

0:40:17.760,0:40:20.079

together because only because of kids

0:40:19.680,0:40:23.520

some

0:40:20.079,0:40:25.040

people um and like

0:40:23.520,0:40:26.319

i don't have the statistics to hand so

0:40:25.040,0:40:26.800

i'm just making this up off the top of

0:40:26.319,0:40:29.920

my head

0:40:26.800,0:40:32.000

29 yeah

0:40:29.920,0:40:33.760

but i'm sure the percentage for for

0:40:32.000,0:40:36.240

failed marriages in the

0:40:33.760,0:40:37.280

over for well in the last 30 40 years

0:40:36.240,0:40:39.520

has to be

0:40:37.280,0:40:40.720

fairly high it has to be they start off

0:40:39.520,0:40:44.640

and i thought it was about

0:40:40.720,0:40:47.839

50 50. yes as much as that

0:40:44.640,0:40:49.359

and then divorce today um but yeah since

0:40:47.839,0:40:51.839

i think the 70s

0:40:49.359,0:40:53.760

they it shut up it's probably because it

0:40:51.839,0:40:54.880

has become easier and the stigma is not

0:40:53.760,0:40:56.960

as big and

0:40:54.880,0:40:58.480

right and women have more choices as

0:40:56.960,0:41:01.280

opposed to exactly yeah

0:40:58.480,0:41:02.480

just everybody has more choices and i

0:41:01.280,0:41:04.400

think that's a good thing like the world

0:41:02.480,0:41:07.599

should be full of choices and

0:41:04.400,0:41:08.319

and not people not be like judged for

0:41:07.599,0:41:11.599

that

0:41:08.319,0:41:12.560

yeah let's talk about dating i'm really

0:41:11.599,0:41:15.839

interested to know

0:41:12.560,0:41:17.200

yeah so that app again yeah let me just

0:41:15.839,0:41:21.839

get my pin

0:41:17.200,0:41:21.839

i have to text my sister because i

0:41:29.599,0:41:37.839

i'm sure ryan will message you privately

0:41:34.560,0:41:38.560

what is it like approaching dating as a

0:41:37.839,0:41:41.920

child free

0:41:38.560,0:41:41.920

as a sterilized person

0:41:42.000,0:41:45.200

obviously you don't lead with that i'm

0:41:43.760,0:41:46.160

surely i'm sure that's not like your

0:41:45.200,0:41:48.400

first thing

0:41:46.160,0:41:49.680

on a profile or in a if you meet

0:41:48.400,0:41:51.520

somebody you don't go

0:41:49.680,0:41:53.200

so i don't want kids is that your first

0:41:51.520,0:41:56.720

introduction to

0:41:53.200,0:41:58.880

kind of yes oh really but

0:41:56.720,0:42:00.240

i am definitely the wrong person to ask

0:41:58.880,0:42:02.079

i'll try and answer

0:42:00.240,0:42:04.480

uh my last relationship was when i was

0:42:02.079,0:42:06.880

an undergrad that was

0:42:04.480,0:42:07.520

2010. i haven't been in a relationship

0:42:06.880,0:42:10.720

since then

0:42:07.520,0:42:12.560

so um and as i

0:42:10.720,0:42:14.400

told paul before we talked you know

0:42:12.560,0:42:16.160

before the recording um

0:42:14.400,0:42:18.480

a large chunk of that was i was trying

0:42:16.160,0:42:21.119

to find my own feet i was trying to

0:42:18.480,0:42:22.880

get a job you know get started career

0:42:21.119,0:42:24.560

didn't happen went to grad school done

0:42:22.880,0:42:26.400

it or not i was caring about

0:42:24.560,0:42:27.599

career and where i'm gonna stay and

0:42:26.400,0:42:31.119

settle so

0:42:27.599,0:42:34.400

for me i wasn't focused really at all

0:42:31.119,0:42:35.839

on dating not almost none of it these

0:42:34.400,0:42:39.280

past 10 years

0:42:35.839,0:42:42.240

um i've

0:42:39.280,0:42:43.359

gone out and i've met people in like my

0:42:42.240,0:42:44.800

meet up groups

0:42:43.359,0:42:46.480

run an anime group i run a mystery

0:42:44.800,0:42:47.040

science theater group now currently

0:42:46.480,0:42:50.400

online

0:42:47.040,0:42:52.079

um but i would meet people that way but

0:42:50.400,0:42:54.240

nothing really ever panned out there was

0:42:52.079,0:42:57.440

one guy who was interested in me

0:42:54.240,0:42:58.000

but we hit a crossroad he is on the

0:42:57.440,0:43:01.440

fence about

0:42:58.000,0:43:02.720

kids um and he is pro-life i am very

0:43:01.440,0:43:05.680

much pro-choice

0:43:02.720,0:43:08.079

and those two can't really work together

0:43:05.680,0:43:10.839

so outside of him i haven't really seen

0:43:08.079,0:43:13.680

much dating um or have that kind of

0:43:10.839,0:43:14.560

experience i will say i am on uk cupid

0:43:13.680,0:43:17.920

now

0:43:14.560,0:43:21.119

um i just on a whim one day during coco

0:43:17.920,0:43:24.000

i'll make another profile whatever um

0:43:21.119,0:43:26.079

yeah and i got quite a few matches and

0:43:24.000,0:43:29.839

intros or whatever they call them

0:43:26.079,0:43:29.839

um but

0:43:30.240,0:43:36.160

it's it's a lot of people love it a lot

0:43:34.400,0:43:37.440

of childhood people lament that it's

0:43:36.160,0:43:38.560

really hard dating when you're

0:43:37.440,0:43:42.400

challenged

0:43:38.560,0:43:45.760

and for me like on my profile

0:43:42.400,0:43:48.960

uh on okcupid it's on there um

0:43:45.760,0:43:52.000

it's on there twice actually um

0:43:48.960,0:43:53.599

they have a little uh like oh if you get

0:43:52.000,0:43:54.000

on someone's profile off to the right

0:43:53.599,0:43:55.440

side

0:43:54.000,0:43:57.680

there's like a little blurb like a

0:43:55.440,0:44:00.319

little summary of

0:43:57.680,0:44:01.200

why you know religion or i'm sorry race

0:44:00.319,0:44:03.359

religion

0:44:01.200,0:44:04.480

um whether you smoke whether you drink

0:44:03.359,0:44:04.960

whether you have kids whether you have

0:44:04.480,0:44:07.520

pets

0:44:04.960,0:44:08.720

it's at the top so if any if you don't

0:44:07.520,0:44:11.040

want to go through somebody's

0:44:08.720,0:44:12.079

big giant profile you can look at that

0:44:11.040,0:44:14.560

little blur

0:44:12.079,0:44:15.570

the lazy part of dating the lazy window

0:44:14.560,0:44:17.680

in the corner

0:44:15.570,0:44:20.240

[Laughter]

0:44:17.680,0:44:21.119

and at times i will admit i do use the

0:44:20.240,0:44:23.520

way

0:44:21.119,0:44:24.480

the way i look at profiles is like i'll

0:44:23.520,0:44:25.760

get someone

0:44:24.480,0:44:28.160

some guy will message me and they'll

0:44:25.760,0:44:29.599

send me an intro um and obviously their

0:44:28.160,0:44:30.240

picture is there but i'm not really

0:44:29.599,0:44:32.079

going to pay

0:44:30.240,0:44:34.240

attention to your picture i'm going to

0:44:32.079,0:44:35.280

see it because it pops up when you send

0:44:34.240,0:44:36.319

me an intro

0:44:35.280,0:44:38.000

but i'm not going to look at that i'm

0:44:36.319,0:44:39.359

going to click on your name and the

0:44:38.000,0:44:40.640

first thing i'm going to look at is that

0:44:39.359,0:44:43.040

little blurb

0:44:40.640,0:44:44.880

to be perfectly honest and i'm looking

0:44:43.040,0:44:47.440

for a couple things

0:44:44.880,0:44:47.920

um on my profile it says does god have

0:44:47.440,0:44:50.960

kids

0:44:47.920,0:44:54.560

does not want if it says

0:44:50.960,0:44:59.200

does not have but might want but wants

0:44:54.560,0:45:02.640

or has kids then i'm passing right there

0:44:59.200,0:45:04.800

that helps me cut people out yes

0:45:02.640,0:45:06.319

i can see how helpful that would be for

0:45:04.800,0:45:07.839

for you if you're not

0:45:06.319,0:45:09.920

looking for the the children in your

0:45:07.839,0:45:12.800

life right um

0:45:09.920,0:45:14.480

to have a section that says them not not

0:45:12.800,0:45:16.319

having kids not want your kids i mean

0:45:14.480,0:45:18.079

and i use that section for other things

0:45:16.319,0:45:20.480

as well like uh

0:45:18.079,0:45:21.760

i do not smoke i am not looking for a

0:45:20.480,0:45:24.800

smoker at all

0:45:21.760,0:45:25.839

um in that blurb if it says you smoke i

0:45:24.800,0:45:27.920

pass immediately

0:45:25.839,0:45:29.440

because that that just cuts down on time

0:45:27.920,0:45:30.720

if i look at that blurb and there's

0:45:29.440,0:45:32.240

nothing that shoots out of me

0:45:30.720,0:45:33.760

then i will actually go through your

0:45:32.240,0:45:35.760

entire profile and i'll read

0:45:33.760,0:45:36.960

everything about you yeah it's a useful

0:45:35.760,0:45:39.760

summary i understand

0:45:36.960,0:45:41.680

yeah and i use that some on my own

0:45:39.760,0:45:43.040

profile but at the very bottom i have a

0:45:41.680,0:45:46.800

list of things that

0:45:43.040,0:45:49.680

i'm not i'm not looking for as well

0:45:46.800,0:45:50.880

so like it says down there i do not want

0:45:49.680,0:45:52.880

to date a smoker

0:45:50.880,0:45:55.040

but it also says i am a child free

0:45:52.880,0:45:58.400

individual which means i do not want

0:45:55.040,0:46:02.000

kids biological adopted staff

0:45:58.400,0:46:04.560

step parent or foster so if you

0:46:02.000,0:46:05.599

have or want kids i'm probably not the

0:46:04.560,0:46:07.599

girl for you

0:46:05.599,0:46:08.880

that is in the very bottom of my profile

0:46:07.599,0:46:12.319

but as i said

0:46:08.880,0:46:15.680

my not wanting kids is on there twice

0:46:12.319,0:46:17.440

and yet i still gotten messages from

0:46:15.680,0:46:19.599

dads and i've gotten messages from

0:46:17.440,0:46:21.760

people who will actively want kids and i

0:46:19.599,0:46:21.760

just

0:46:22.480,0:46:25.680

but you see why that is that's people

0:46:24.000,0:46:26.079

looking for a challenge to change your

0:46:25.680,0:46:27.920

mind

0:46:26.079,0:46:29.280

i was just gonna say that people just go

0:46:27.920,0:46:31.839

out of their way for a challenge

0:46:29.280,0:46:33.200

sometimes that's uh i can i can change

0:46:31.839,0:46:35.760

your mind i've got a kid so it doesn't

0:46:33.200,0:46:37.359

mean you don't want to date me

0:46:35.760,0:46:39.760

and that's why i mean it's at the bottom

0:46:37.359,0:46:41.599

of the so i mean i heard nobody reads

0:46:39.760,0:46:44.480

profile i mean i

0:46:41.599,0:46:46.000

but especially nobody reads profiles so

0:46:44.480,0:46:49.040

i have on there

0:46:46.000,0:46:52.079

that's why i define child free no kids

0:46:49.040,0:46:56.700

biological adopted step

0:46:52.079,0:47:00.800

which means your kid or foster

0:46:56.700,0:47:03.119

[Laughter]

0:47:00.800,0:47:05.119

so and they might there might be some

0:47:03.119,0:47:07.680

guys who think they can

0:47:05.119,0:47:08.960

but they're not going to get to talk to

0:47:07.680,0:47:12.079

me because if you put

0:47:08.960,0:47:12.800

you have kids or you might want them i

0:47:12.079,0:47:14.160

will just click

0:47:12.800,0:47:16.000

past i'm not going to respond to your

0:47:14.160,0:47:18.960

input because

0:47:16.000,0:47:21.040

right in that blurb i've weeded you out

0:47:18.960,0:47:22.960

that basically it sounds awful but

0:47:21.040,0:47:24.559

like i don't want someone with his i

0:47:22.960,0:47:26.559

don't want someone who smokes i don't

0:47:24.559,0:47:27.119

want someone who does drugs etc and so

0:47:26.559,0:47:28.640

forth

0:47:27.119,0:47:30.319

i can just imagine somebody watching

0:47:28.640,0:47:32.000

this going but

0:47:30.319,0:47:34.079

you know i'm split up from my other half

0:47:32.000,0:47:39.839

and i've got a kid and i really like you

0:47:34.079,0:47:42.000

i would really like you to respond

0:47:39.839,0:47:43.520

what percentage of monarchy of of

0:47:42.000,0:47:46.720

matches or

0:47:43.520,0:47:49.839

profiles would you say

0:47:46.720,0:47:52.960

are males who

0:47:49.839,0:47:55.839

either are child free or would be

0:47:52.960,0:47:58.640

happy to sort of fall in line with with

0:47:55.839,0:47:58.640

that expectation

0:47:58.960,0:48:02.240

that i can't answer i would need actual

0:48:00.960,0:48:04.160

statistics for that

0:48:02.240,0:48:07.760

looking at the people who've sent me

0:48:04.160,0:48:10.079

messages like i spoke with

0:48:07.760,0:48:11.680

i think i spoke with like six or seven

0:48:10.079,0:48:12.880

guys this time around

0:48:11.680,0:48:13.920

right now i'm just speaking with two of

0:48:12.880,0:48:15.040

them because though they just kind of

0:48:13.920,0:48:17.520

fell off i just

0:48:15.040,0:48:18.800

whatever happened um there were a few

0:48:17.520,0:48:20.400

other guys that had

0:48:18.800,0:48:22.319

doesn't have doesn't want on their

0:48:20.400,0:48:25.599

profile um

0:48:22.319,0:48:26.559

but so they i passed on them for other

0:48:25.599,0:48:28.400

reasons so

0:48:26.559,0:48:31.280

like they were looking for short-term

0:48:28.400,0:48:31.280

dating and hookups

0:48:31.839,0:48:35.280

not looking for a hookup um so there

0:48:34.400,0:48:37.440

have been

0:48:35.280,0:48:38.800

some guys i ended up talking to and some

0:48:37.440,0:48:41.680

i did pass on

0:48:38.800,0:48:43.359

that did say they didn't want you um i

0:48:41.680,0:48:47.119

think i spoke with a couple that said

0:48:43.359,0:48:50.160

might want that that's a risk but

0:48:47.119,0:48:51.359

it's it's just it's up to you if you

0:48:50.160,0:48:52.800

want to take that risk because they

0:48:51.359,0:48:55.040

could go either way

0:48:52.800,0:48:56.720

um but i would be very upfront with you

0:48:55.040,0:48:58.960

i do not want kids so if

0:48:56.720,0:49:01.359

that person decides they do we will

0:48:58.960,0:49:04.720

break up that's what's going to happen

0:49:01.359,0:49:04.720

and i'll let you know that i'm not

0:49:05.040,0:49:09.040

i guess i'm a weird person if you read

0:49:06.880,0:49:12.079

my profile you are reading me

0:49:09.040,0:49:15.119

i do not lie on my profile at all um

0:49:12.079,0:49:17.839

so what i say on there on there is

0:49:15.119,0:49:19.920

that's who i am at this point in time

0:49:17.839,0:49:22.559

broadly speaking would you say it's

0:49:19.920,0:49:24.319

a very small number of profiles that you

0:49:22.559,0:49:27.520

have most likely yeah oh yeah

0:49:24.319,0:49:28.720

the majority of profiles are going to

0:49:27.520,0:49:30.880

say

0:49:28.720,0:49:32.000

well a lot of them just say doesn't have

0:49:30.880,0:49:35.280

kids

0:49:32.000,0:49:38.400

and that second part isn't filled out so

0:49:35.280,0:49:40.640

i just nice and ambiguous for you then

0:49:38.400,0:49:44.400

so if it doesn't have kids who might

0:49:40.640,0:49:45.920

want them tomorrow

0:49:44.400,0:49:49.280

yeah that one i was like okay i'm gonna

0:49:45.920,0:49:49.280

need you to fill up that second half

0:49:49.760,0:49:52.800

of what you want so i'm giving you a

0:49:51.440,0:49:56.319

chance but you need to answer that

0:49:52.800,0:49:56.319

second part of that question first

0:49:56.400,0:50:00.800

there's a lot of a lot of things i look

0:49:59.280,0:50:02.880

at when i look at a profile

0:50:00.800,0:50:05.119

that little blurb it helps just to weed

0:50:02.880,0:50:08.240

out things i absolutely don't want

0:50:05.119,0:50:10.240

like the smoking like the kids etc but i

0:50:08.240,0:50:11.520

also look at your full profile on

0:50:10.240,0:50:14.240

okcupid you can answer

0:50:11.520,0:50:16.000

questions and that determines your match

0:50:14.240,0:50:17.599

percentage with other people

0:50:16.000,0:50:19.440

i will look at those questions you

0:50:17.599,0:50:20.240

answered especially the ones we disagree

0:50:19.440,0:50:22.319

0:50:20.240,0:50:23.440

and and uh you know some of them like

0:50:22.319,0:50:24.960

okay i don't really care

0:50:23.440,0:50:27.119

but some of them okay that's the red

0:50:24.960,0:50:28.960

flag for me i i've got to take it

0:50:27.119,0:50:31.359

sure there's a lot when it comes to

0:50:28.960,0:50:33.280

looking at profiles for me

0:50:31.359,0:50:36.160

interesting yeah it's a big decision

0:50:33.280,0:50:39.200

though and dating is a minefield

0:50:36.160,0:50:41.680

whether you have um

0:50:39.200,0:50:42.800

a list of things that you need to

0:50:41.680,0:50:44.800

criteria

0:50:42.800,0:50:46.079

everyone's got criteria i mean if anyone

0:50:44.800,0:50:48.960

says they don't they're lying

0:50:46.079,0:50:50.800

so you're sure of your correct criteria

0:50:48.960,0:50:53.280

you know what you're looking for

0:50:50.800,0:50:55.760

nobody can can give you any hassle for

0:50:53.280,0:50:59.440

that and

0:50:55.760,0:51:02.000

it just um it still surprises me that

0:50:59.440,0:51:04.000

and the whole child free thing is still

0:51:02.000,0:51:07.119

a bit of a stigma like

0:51:04.000,0:51:08.640

surely there are a lot of people out

0:51:07.119,0:51:12.720

there who are in the same

0:51:08.640,0:51:12.720

kind of position as you look looking for

0:51:13.119,0:51:16.400

free well i don't want to say freedom

0:51:14.400,0:51:17.680

and like well freedom but from a

0:51:16.400,0:51:20.640

scottish person that's a different it

0:51:17.680,0:51:20.640

has different connotations

0:51:20.839,0:51:26.319

um but yeah

0:51:22.319,0:51:26.319

just there must be

0:51:27.280,0:51:30.960

a change in the way society thinks there

0:51:29.040,0:51:34.000

has to be because

0:51:30.960,0:51:35.440

um again i don't again

0:51:34.000,0:51:37.280

it's not for us to judge anyone's

0:51:35.440,0:51:40.720

choices or decisions but

0:51:37.280,0:51:41.839

there must be pros to to being giant

0:51:40.720,0:51:44.640

free

0:51:41.839,0:51:45.440

um as you said freedom is a big part of

0:51:44.640,0:51:48.240

0:51:45.440,0:51:50.800

um i can kind of do whatever i want

0:51:48.240,0:51:53.839

whenever without having to

0:51:50.800,0:51:55.760

plan around someone else i mean frankly

0:51:53.839,0:51:57.599

being single that's

0:51:55.760,0:51:59.760

that's true as well i don't plan around

0:51:57.599,0:52:02.240

a significant other or spouse

0:51:59.760,0:52:03.280

um the difference being if i get a

0:52:02.240,0:52:06.400

spouse full

0:52:03.280,0:52:07.760

but i i do never want kids uh but i like

0:52:06.400,0:52:10.640

having this

0:52:07.760,0:52:11.359

this freedom to do whatever i want

0:52:10.640,0:52:14.640

whenever

0:52:11.359,0:52:18.800

within reason whenever i want um

0:52:14.640,0:52:22.880

thanks coronavirus yeah

0:52:18.800,0:52:22.880

i have so many examples um

0:52:23.280,0:52:27.040

just because i'm a big nerd i'm in a lot

0:52:25.440,0:52:30.240

of different fandoms

0:52:27.040,0:52:32.319

uh there's a lot of conventions i

0:52:30.240,0:52:34.720

i like to go to automatic conventions my

0:52:32.319,0:52:36.640

little pony convention story convention

0:52:34.720,0:52:38.640

i attended a my little pony convention

0:52:36.640,0:52:41.920

online last week

0:52:38.640,0:52:44.880

um with

0:52:41.920,0:52:46.640

it's harder to do that when you have you

0:52:44.880,0:52:47.839

know a spouse and or kid

0:52:46.640,0:52:50.960

i guess unless your spouse doesn't do it

0:52:47.839,0:52:53.200

too um it's just more of a it's gonna be

0:52:50.960,0:52:56.160

more expensive for them sure

0:52:53.200,0:52:56.640

um so instead of paying for you know a

0:52:56.160,0:52:58.800

bunch of

0:52:56.640,0:53:00.960

other like badges and what you know so

0:52:58.800,0:53:01.839

my kids can get in i can buy random crap

0:53:00.960,0:53:05.040

that i don't need

0:53:01.839,0:53:06.160

i i want anyway all over my house so i'm

0:53:05.040,0:53:09.920

very very good at that

0:53:06.160,0:53:12.480

uh but um i like the fact that i

0:53:09.920,0:53:13.119

can just i have the freedom to do

0:53:12.480,0:53:16.000

whatever

0:53:13.119,0:53:17.599

you know i i went to japan last year

0:53:16.000,0:53:20.559

with four guy friends

0:53:17.599,0:53:22.559

on a whim we found round-trip tickets

0:53:20.559,0:53:24.800

for 660. we're like

0:53:22.559,0:53:26.559

yeah we're gonna buy these tickets

0:53:24.800,0:53:29.760

they're super super cheap

0:53:26.559,0:53:32.240

that's not something i could do if i had

0:53:29.760,0:53:33.839

kids um maybe with a spout maybe

0:53:32.240,0:53:35.280

yourself and go with me but with kids

0:53:33.839,0:53:38.319

it'd be a lot difficult

0:53:35.280,0:53:40.000

and it would be very awkward me being

0:53:38.319,0:53:43.680

the only one with kids and then four

0:53:40.000,0:53:46.400

dudes that are single

0:53:43.680,0:53:47.760

a bit difficult but i like the fact that

0:53:46.400,0:53:49.359

i could just pick up and travel we were

0:53:47.760,0:53:52.079

supposed to go to japan this year

0:53:49.359,0:53:53.760

uh and then government so um thankfully

0:53:52.079,0:53:55.280

we got our money back

0:53:53.760,0:53:57.040

but we're planning on going next year

0:53:55.280,0:53:59.280

because we can't

0:53:57.040,0:54:00.880

because we have the money because we

0:53:59.280,0:54:02.880

could we have the

0:54:00.880,0:54:04.640

vacation time at work we can take that

0:54:02.880,0:54:07.520

off um

0:54:04.640,0:54:09.200

i even not just travel just being here

...more

View all episodes

By Paul Hope & Ryan Rocks

January 18, 2021

Childfree, Not Childless - My Life

1 hour 3 minutes

Transcript:

----more----

0:00:00.080,0:00:03.199

and she found some of our stuff when we

0:00:01.680,0:00:04.720

were kids and

0:00:03.199,0:00:06.960

i think i was in the second grade she

0:00:04.720,0:00:08.639

saw this little booklet i made and had

0:00:06.960,0:00:10.960

all of my aspirations

0:00:08.639,0:00:12.400

for the rest of my life in there was

0:00:10.960,0:00:13.840

like i wanted three kids

0:00:12.400,0:00:17.900

and she showed it to me i was like burn

0:00:13.840,0:00:19.000

it burn it now

0:00:17.900,0:00:24.000

[Applause]

0:00:19.000,0:00:27.199

[Music]

0:00:24.000,0:00:29.439

hello welcome to life is it just me this

0:00:27.199,0:00:31.599

is the podcast where we look at things

0:00:29.439,0:00:33.040

that we all go through things we all

0:00:31.599,0:00:34.719

think about things we all

0:00:33.040,0:00:37.440

have to deal with in life this first

0:00:34.719,0:00:39.120

season has been and still is all about

0:00:37.440,0:00:40.879

the decision as to whether to have kids

0:00:39.120,0:00:44.000

my name is paul i'm joined as always

0:00:40.879,0:00:46.640

by ryan hello ryan hello

0:00:44.000,0:00:48.399

and our guest for this episode is oh

0:00:46.640,0:00:51.840

monica hi monikay

0:00:48.399,0:00:52.960

hello how are you i'm good

0:00:51.840,0:00:54.640

good to have you here thank you so much

0:00:52.960,0:00:56.840

for joining us tell us a bit about

0:00:54.640,0:01:00.000

yourself to start off

0:00:56.840,0:01:02.719

um you know i just turned 35

0:01:00.000,0:01:03.039

last week um happy birthday from last

0:01:02.719,0:01:06.320

week

0:01:03.039,0:01:07.920

i'm a public sector worker uh so i um

0:01:06.320,0:01:10.560

i'm a trainee appraiser for the state of

0:01:07.920,0:01:11.280

illinois and you know by night i have a

0:01:10.560,0:01:15.280

bunch of

0:01:11.280,0:01:19.119

weird hobbies i watch anime

0:01:15.280,0:01:22.880

um i love horror movies uh i am a brony

0:01:19.119,0:01:24.720

a furry uh just a lot of weird stuff i

0:01:22.880,0:01:25.600

like sewing as well i usually sew like

0:01:24.720,0:01:28.159

stuffed animals

0:01:25.600,0:01:29.360

i should one day sell practical things

0:01:28.159,0:01:32.640

right now

0:01:29.360,0:01:37.360

like things but just sitting again

0:01:32.640,0:01:39.680

you're having fun yes oh absolutely yeah

0:01:37.360,0:01:42.880

i think that my little pony episodes

0:01:39.680,0:01:42.880

we'll do in the next season

0:01:43.200,0:01:47.119

i've seen them all because uh obviously

0:01:45.040,0:01:48.720

i've got children and

0:01:47.119,0:01:50.000

and i've got an excuse to watch my

0:01:48.720,0:01:52.960

little pony even though i've watched it

0:01:50.000,0:01:56.320

without them but don't tell anybody

0:01:52.960,0:01:56.320

i think it excuses the wrong word

0:01:57.360,0:02:02.399

desire the want okay take us back to

0:02:01.040,0:02:03.680

your childhood and tell us

0:02:02.399,0:02:05.280

about your upbringing police which we

0:02:03.680,0:02:06.640

know is going to be relevant to the

0:02:05.280,0:02:09.759

conversation we're having today about

0:02:06.640,0:02:12.640

about children um

0:02:09.759,0:02:14.480

at a very normal childhood uh i grew up

0:02:12.640,0:02:16.319

in a two-parent household

0:02:14.480,0:02:18.640

and i mean i don't live with them

0:02:16.319,0:02:22.000

anymore but they're still together

0:02:18.640,0:02:24.480

uh just standard mom and dad uh

0:02:22.000,0:02:25.840

i am the oldest of three children uh i

0:02:24.480,0:02:27.360

have a brother in the middle who's six

0:02:25.840,0:02:30.319

years younger than me and my sister

0:02:27.360,0:02:32.800

is 13 years younger than me she's

0:02:30.319,0:02:36.000

currently a college student

0:02:32.800,0:02:38.239

but i had a very good childhood i

0:02:36.000,0:02:39.680

definitely didn't want for anything i

0:02:38.239,0:02:42.800

got a lot of

0:02:39.680,0:02:44.400

opportunities that others didn't um

0:02:42.800,0:02:46.319

some of which my dad didn't care for

0:02:44.400,0:02:48.400

like video games but

0:02:46.319,0:02:50.239

uh my my mom wanted to have as many

0:02:48.400,0:02:53.120

experiences as possible

0:02:50.239,0:02:54.160

uh uh you know i grew up i guess middle

0:02:53.120,0:02:56.160

upper middle class

0:02:54.160,0:02:57.920

i i don't really know i don't know how

0:02:56.160,0:02:58.720

much my parents made some of my business

0:02:57.920,0:03:02.480

but

0:02:58.720,0:03:05.840

um my mom was a general practitioner

0:03:02.480,0:03:07.200

so a physician and my father was a civil

0:03:05.840,0:03:11.280

engineer both are currently

0:03:07.200,0:03:14.480

hired so you know they

0:03:11.280,0:03:16.959

they made a decent amount of money and i

0:03:14.480,0:03:19.360

grew up going a bunch of different

0:03:16.959,0:03:20.879

places we've been florida like 10 times

0:03:19.360,0:03:22.879

but we've got other places

0:03:20.879,0:03:26.000

we went to nigeria once when i was

0:03:22.879,0:03:27.280

younger because my dad was from

0:03:26.000,0:03:29.440

it was just it was a really happy

0:03:27.280,0:03:30.799

childhood i cannot complain at all about

0:03:29.440,0:03:32.640

my tests

0:03:30.799,0:03:34.879

you described yourself previously as

0:03:32.640,0:03:38.480

being a tomboy

0:03:34.879,0:03:40.480

yeah yeah um

0:03:38.480,0:03:42.319

i guess when i was really young i did

0:03:40.480,0:03:44.159

have

0:03:42.319,0:03:45.680

i guess more female friends than male

0:03:44.159,0:03:48.720

ones like maybe

0:03:45.680,0:03:50.799

elementary school so

0:03:48.720,0:03:51.920

you know we play dolls and things every

0:03:50.799,0:03:55.280

once in a while

0:03:51.920,0:03:58.640

but i remember

0:03:55.280,0:04:01.840

in like the fourth grade whenever recess

0:03:58.640,0:04:03.280

uh we were led up for recess i was

0:04:01.840,0:04:05.200

always playing soccer

0:04:03.280,0:04:06.480

and i was the only girl that played

0:04:05.200,0:04:09.760

soccer

0:04:06.480,0:04:10.400

with a bunch of guns um and it was a lot

0:04:09.760,0:04:13.040

of fun

0:04:10.400,0:04:14.640

um one time i actually kicked a guy

0:04:13.040,0:04:17.920

right in his chin

0:04:14.640,0:04:17.920

it was the guy had a crush on dude

0:04:18.639,0:04:21.840

how did that go definitely a

0:04:20.560,0:04:24.080

psychologist

0:04:21.840,0:04:25.840

that absolutely sucked but he forgave me

0:04:24.080,0:04:29.440

because he was an accident like i'm not

0:04:25.840,0:04:33.199

gunning for your i can't aim i'm sorry

0:04:29.440,0:04:34.639

but no um fast forward to

0:04:33.199,0:04:36.400

i don't remember what i was really into

0:04:34.639,0:04:38.160

in middle school for some reason

0:04:36.400,0:04:40.400

uh that was kind of a blur it was a lot

0:04:38.160,0:04:42.560

of bullying at that time so i didn't

0:04:40.400,0:04:44.639

i guess i try and block it out but in

0:04:42.560,0:04:45.280

high school i made more guy friends i

0:04:44.639,0:04:47.840

had a

0:04:45.280,0:04:50.080

it was a good mix um that's kind of when

0:04:47.840,0:04:51.680

i was getting more into video games

0:04:50.080,0:04:53.360

um i think that's when we got a

0:04:51.680,0:04:54.400

playstation 2 that i kind of shared with

0:04:53.360,0:04:57.520

my brother

0:04:54.400,0:04:59.280

but um i also got kind of been really

0:04:57.520,0:05:00.639

into anime at that time

0:04:59.280,0:05:02.080

i've been watching anime since i was

0:05:00.639,0:05:03.520

eight my neighbor totoro was the first

0:05:02.080,0:05:07.440

anime i ever saw

0:05:03.520,0:05:10.560

um very very cute very very cute movie

0:05:07.440,0:05:11.280

but i started gravitor gravitating more

0:05:10.560,0:05:14.080

towards

0:05:11.280,0:05:14.880

uh like anime and gaming and at the time

0:05:14.080,0:05:16.160

it was more

0:05:14.880,0:05:18.400

console gaming like the playing

0:05:16.160,0:05:20.880

playstation but that's when i started

0:05:18.400,0:05:24.400

developing more and more guy friends

0:05:20.880,0:05:25.680

i've always just like weird things like

0:05:24.400,0:05:28.880

method like uh

0:05:25.680,0:05:30.800

greek roman mythology uh like dinosaurs

0:05:28.880,0:05:33.840

like uh astronomy those were things

0:05:30.800,0:05:36.639

i were interested in so

0:05:33.840,0:05:38.000

it wasn't as much like playing house or

0:05:36.639,0:05:41.840

anything like that

0:05:38.000,0:05:44.880

sure and then going off to college uh

0:05:41.840,0:05:47.759

my my gaming increased

0:05:44.880,0:05:49.520

i found guys to play with most of my

0:05:47.759,0:05:52.560

anime club there was

0:05:49.520,0:05:55.919

guy and you know to this day my

0:05:52.560,0:05:58.160

my friend base is like 95 guy

0:05:55.919,0:05:59.199

and that's you know because i am a gamer

0:05:58.160,0:06:02.240

because i am

0:05:59.199,0:06:03.199

into anime i'm in i am a brony and i'm a

0:06:02.240,0:06:06.639

furry

0:06:03.199,0:06:09.680

and all of those are nerd habits

0:06:06.639,0:06:12.400

and nerd habits are traditionally

0:06:09.680,0:06:13.440

largely white male and heterosexual

0:06:12.400,0:06:16.560

separate

0:06:13.440,0:06:17.360

so um i think that's why i have so many

0:06:16.560,0:06:20.639

guy friends

0:06:17.360,0:06:24.000

and i just always gravitate towards

0:06:20.639,0:06:27.280

kind of nerdy sciencey stuff

0:06:24.000,0:06:27.600

which i can't i won't say is strictly a

0:06:27.280,0:06:30.400

die

0:06:27.600,0:06:33.360

thing um especially not now there are

0:06:30.400,0:06:36.639

quite a few women and like the steps

0:06:33.360,0:06:39.280

i've just never been girly i've never

0:06:36.639,0:06:40.639

you know really played in makeup um i

0:06:39.280,0:06:41.759

don't think my mom let me wear makeup

0:06:40.639,0:06:44.080

ever anyway

0:06:41.759,0:06:46.160

unless i was doing like a ballet recital

0:06:44.080,0:06:47.840

so i know i to this day i still know how

0:06:46.160,0:06:49.759

to put on makeup i just balance it on

0:06:47.840,0:06:52.960

and hope

0:06:49.759,0:06:52.960

i think i wear it like once a year

0:06:54.160,0:06:58.000

the reason i ask these questions about

0:06:55.520,0:06:59.759

your childhood and about about

0:06:58.000,0:07:02.080

how you would see yourself and use the

0:06:59.759,0:07:04.000

word tomboy is that

0:07:02.080,0:07:05.919

having spoken to you previously before

0:07:04.000,0:07:07.360

recording today i feel like it sets the

0:07:05.919,0:07:10.160

scene well it gets it gives us

0:07:07.360,0:07:10.880

an idea of who you are which then leads

0:07:10.160,0:07:13.199

me just to

0:07:10.880,0:07:14.560

ask you just to briefly talk about the

0:07:13.199,0:07:16.000

surgery that you've had and we'll go

0:07:14.560,0:07:18.319

back in time more and explore this

0:07:16.000,0:07:21.360

more later but you've had surgery before

0:07:18.319,0:07:25.039

to prevent yourself from having kids

0:07:21.360,0:07:28.960

um yes in 2016

0:07:25.039,0:07:32.560

um i decided to just go ahead and get

0:07:28.960,0:07:34.720

a tubal ligation and

0:07:32.560,0:07:35.840

there weren't as many options back then

0:07:34.720,0:07:37.599

even though it

0:07:35.840,0:07:39.120

back then sounds like you know 20 years

0:07:37.599,0:07:40.800

ago

0:07:39.120,0:07:42.160

but um

0:07:40.800,0:07:44.000

[Music]

0:07:42.160,0:07:45.360

i always knew i didn't want kids ever

0:07:44.000,0:07:48.800

since middle school

0:07:45.360,0:07:51.039

um and my

0:07:48.800,0:07:52.560

honestly dislike of kids has increased

0:07:51.039,0:07:54.080

since i got older

0:07:52.560,0:07:57.120

now if i see a kid in the street am i

0:07:54.080,0:07:59.440

gonna slap that kid no who does that

0:07:57.120,0:08:01.120

don't do that nothing like that please

0:07:59.440,0:08:02.000

don't do that we do we would like you to

0:08:01.120,0:08:04.720

stay out of

0:08:02.000,0:08:05.840

like trouble yeah no i i have no desire

0:08:04.720,0:08:08.560

to do it it's just

0:08:05.840,0:08:10.160

you know i've always kids just aren't

0:08:08.560,0:08:12.080

appealing to me they just aren't

0:08:10.160,0:08:15.280

something i've ever desired

0:08:12.080,0:08:18.160

um there aren't um i

0:08:15.280,0:08:18.560

i don't i'm not a childless person i'm

0:08:18.160,0:08:21.039

not

0:08:18.560,0:08:22.960

missing something in my mind uh i'm a

0:08:21.039,0:08:23.680

child free person which means i'm very

0:08:22.960,0:08:26.960

happy with that

0:08:23.680,0:08:29.759

like it's like the equivalent of saying

0:08:26.960,0:08:30.879

debtless versus debt-free um when she

0:08:29.759,0:08:32.240

you know people are happy when they're

0:08:30.879,0:08:33.120

debt-free but no one says they're

0:08:32.240,0:08:34.640

debt-less like

0:08:33.120,0:08:37.039

i don't really have debt right now but

0:08:34.640,0:08:40.320

you know one day one day i'll get dead

0:08:37.039,0:08:40.320

that's that's not just compensation

0:08:41.409,0:08:46.000

[Laughter]

0:08:44.320,0:08:47.360

but going back to the surgery i'm sorry

0:08:46.000,0:08:48.800

i i'm a squirrel and i

0:08:47.360,0:08:51.279

wander all over the place that's what

0:08:48.800,0:08:54.399

we're here for so do we

0:08:51.279,0:08:55.519

i um i decided to go ahead and take that

0:08:54.399,0:08:58.800

final step

0:08:55.519,0:09:01.839

uh i think at the time i had marina

0:08:58.800,0:09:04.800

inserted so one of the iuds

0:09:01.839,0:09:06.240

which i knew that i can't remember what

0:09:04.800,0:09:08.160

iud stands for but it's one of the ones

0:09:06.240,0:09:11.360

that are inserted

0:09:08.160,0:09:13.040

there um

0:09:11.360,0:09:14.720

and i decided i'm just gonna go

0:09:13.040,0:09:15.760

permanent because i know i don't want

0:09:14.720,0:09:19.200

kids

0:09:15.760,0:09:20.880

and now the arduous task of finding a

0:09:19.200,0:09:24.160

doctor to do it

0:09:20.880,0:09:26.160

um that is a major complaint

0:09:24.160,0:09:27.279

from child free people specifically

0:09:26.160,0:09:28.720

women um

0:09:27.279,0:09:30.000

you will see a lot of that on the child

0:09:28.720,0:09:31.360

free stuff there are a lot of women who

0:09:30.000,0:09:32.800

do want to get sterilized because they

0:09:31.360,0:09:36.399

know they don't want kids

0:09:32.800,0:09:37.519

they can't find doctors for a variety of

0:09:36.399,0:09:39.760

you know that you'll change your mind

0:09:37.519,0:09:41.120

when you get older you know some just

0:09:39.760,0:09:41.920

say well you gotta have at least three

0:09:41.120,0:09:44.720

kids

0:09:41.920,0:09:46.480

before i stare okay well i don't want

0:09:44.720,0:09:49.600

any so what

0:09:46.480,0:09:52.080

is that it's

0:09:49.600,0:09:54.880

i i won't go super political but it's

0:09:52.080,0:09:57.200

very much an affront on women's choice

0:09:54.880,0:09:58.640

um no one bats deny what a woman says

0:09:57.200,0:10:01.279

hey i'm pregnant

0:09:58.640,0:10:03.200

um regardless of her age if she's 15

0:10:01.279,0:10:06.880

people will still congratulate her

0:10:03.200,0:10:07.920

yet if i'm 30 you'll question me up and

0:10:06.880,0:10:10.399

down the line

0:10:07.920,0:10:11.760

as to what i really want and that

0:10:10.399,0:10:14.800

doesn't make any sense to me

0:10:11.760,0:10:16.800

but luckily for me um i

0:10:14.800,0:10:19.120

was working down in st louis i just

0:10:16.800,0:10:22.240

found a doctor that supposedly would

0:10:19.120,0:10:23.920

sterilize me and i went to him and i

0:10:22.240,0:10:25.040

explained what i wanted i explained my

0:10:23.920,0:10:28.399

choices

0:10:25.040,0:10:29.360

uh and just i've had this for literally

0:10:28.399,0:10:31.279

decades

0:10:29.360,0:10:33.360

this wasn't a sudden i woke up today you

0:10:31.279,0:10:34.880

know what i'm going to have a cubicle

0:10:33.360,0:10:35.839

because i have nothing else to do with

0:10:34.880,0:10:39.120

my time today

0:10:35.839,0:10:41.920

so yeah that didn't happen so

0:10:39.120,0:10:43.200

he says um well you know it's permanent

0:10:41.920,0:10:44.320

right i was like yeah absolutely that's

0:10:43.200,0:10:46.160

why

0:10:44.320,0:10:47.600

um and he asked me a few other questions

0:10:46.160,0:10:48.399

and he came back and he's like you know

0:10:47.600,0:10:50.480

it's permanent right

0:10:48.399,0:10:52.480

like he wanted to shock me or surprise

0:10:50.480,0:10:54.959

him yes i still know that from the five

0:10:52.480,0:10:54.959

minutes ago

0:10:55.839,0:10:59.600

he's like okay i'm done with the song

0:10:57.839,0:11:01.920

and dance um

0:10:59.600,0:11:02.959

you we've got easter or astra i don't

0:11:01.920,0:11:06.560

know how to pronounce it

0:11:02.959,0:11:09.279

and we've got the tubal um i know i

0:11:06.560,0:11:10.240

bilateral self-indected me and butchered

0:11:09.279,0:11:13.200

that word

0:11:10.240,0:11:13.680

um is also a thing now i do not know if

0:11:13.200,0:11:17.120

it was

0:11:13.680,0:11:18.720

then um i hadn't really heard much about

0:11:17.120,0:11:20.560

it i wasn't too familiar with it my

0:11:18.720,0:11:20.959

doctor didn't mention it so it might not

0:11:20.560,0:11:24.640

have been

0:11:20.959,0:11:26.800

as widespread um so he said usher or

0:11:24.640,0:11:28.480

tubal and

0:11:26.800,0:11:30.160

obviously the tubals where they you'll

0:11:28.480,0:11:31.839

clip your tubes and then tie them

0:11:30.160,0:11:34.320

and you pray to god they don't untie

0:11:31.839,0:11:37.839

themselves blew themselves back

0:11:34.320,0:11:39.519

uh with a usher they take these metal

0:11:37.839,0:11:42.320

balls stick them in your uh

0:11:39.519,0:11:44.480

tooth and eventually your skin will kind

0:11:42.320,0:11:46.480

of grow around it completely blocking

0:11:44.480,0:11:47.839

both those two and with the bicep they

0:11:46.480,0:11:51.680

remove your teeth

0:11:47.839,0:11:55.040

um just for those who don't know um

0:11:51.680,0:11:58.560

and the issue with esther

0:11:55.040,0:12:00.800

is it's a metal ball and he asked me are

0:11:58.560,0:12:03.200

you allergic to any kind of metal

0:12:00.800,0:12:04.800

and i said yes many kinds of metal i

0:12:03.200,0:12:06.560

just by wearing jewelry

0:12:04.800,0:12:08.800

unless it's sterling silver or solid

0:12:06.560,0:12:11.200

gold i'm going to break out he's like

0:12:08.800,0:12:12.320

yeah we're not doing after that because

0:12:11.200,0:12:13.920

i don't know how that

0:12:12.320,0:12:16.959

breakout's going to work out inside your

0:12:13.920,0:12:20.079

uterus but let's not find it

0:12:16.959,0:12:24.320

no no no probably for the best

0:12:20.079,0:12:27.040

no um so yeah i chose uh the tubal

0:12:24.320,0:12:28.720

and i came home i told my parents says i

0:12:27.040,0:12:30.079

have to have someone to go with me they

0:12:28.720,0:12:33.200

have to knock me out for that

0:12:30.079,0:12:34.320

someone has to be with me and you know i

0:12:33.200,0:12:36.399

told my mom

0:12:34.320,0:12:37.920

and she's like okay what day are they

0:12:36.399,0:12:38.880

thinking you know i'm pretty sure i can

0:12:37.920,0:12:40.079

get off that day

0:12:38.880,0:12:43.040

you know i could take you down there i

0:12:40.079,0:12:45.200

can do this that's my mom my mom is the

0:12:43.040,0:12:47.760

most giving person i've ever met

0:12:45.200,0:12:48.560

i strive to be like her i'm nowhere

0:12:47.760,0:12:51.839

close to her

0:12:48.560,0:12:52.240

but one day i may get my hair um so she

0:12:51.839,0:12:54.160

was

0:12:52.240,0:12:56.160

all on board and she's very supportive i

0:12:54.160,0:12:57.680

know a lot of childhood people get

0:12:56.160,0:12:59.680

a lot of crap from their friends and

0:12:57.680,0:13:02.560

family and random strangers too

0:12:59.680,0:13:04.320

who are you go away but with friends and

0:13:02.560,0:13:05.839

family it's a lot harder for her and

0:13:04.320,0:13:06.959

i've never gotten i'm very very

0:13:05.839,0:13:09.680

fortunate

0:13:06.959,0:13:10.720

um when the day came for the surgery she

0:13:09.680,0:13:12.720

you know told my dad

0:13:10.720,0:13:13.760

you know uh you know michael i'm going

0:13:12.720,0:13:15.200

with nicky down

0:13:13.760,0:13:17.200

uh down south we're gonna do the

0:13:15.200,0:13:17.839

procedure all of that and he's like

0:13:17.200,0:13:19.440

what's in

0:13:17.839,0:13:21.279

like what was the procedure and she said

0:13:19.440,0:13:22.720

oh it's the tubal ligation

0:13:21.279,0:13:25.040

what's that again and so she had to

0:13:22.720,0:13:27.600

explain it to him a few times

0:13:25.040,0:13:28.480

my dad doesn't have a medical background

0:13:27.600,0:13:31.120

so he's like

0:13:28.480,0:13:32.320

okay i get be careful be safe i'll see

0:13:31.120,0:13:35.360

you when you come back

0:13:32.320,0:13:37.040

um we went down there it was you know

0:13:35.360,0:13:39.040

pretty seamless

0:13:37.040,0:13:40.320

um you know my doctor explained

0:13:39.040,0:13:43.199

everything to my mom

0:13:40.320,0:13:44.959

uh using fancy medical jargon that she

0:13:43.199,0:13:48.560

can understand

0:13:44.959,0:13:50.000

um you know i was out i was back in

0:13:48.560,0:13:51.760

it was of course there was a lot of pain

0:13:50.000,0:13:55.279

when i woke up because

0:13:51.760,0:13:57.040

they did stuff but it wasn't too bad

0:13:55.279,0:13:58.800

i was more tired than anything because

0:13:57.040,0:14:02.880

they used anesthesia

0:13:58.800,0:14:04.639

and i was waking up and recovering and

0:14:02.880,0:14:06.160

my mom said honey we've got to go back

0:14:04.639,0:14:07.760

uh at the time i lived down there so i

0:14:06.160,0:14:09.920

wasn't driving all the way back here

0:14:07.760,0:14:12.000

i was going to maryland heights where i

0:14:09.920,0:14:14.240

live um

0:14:12.000,0:14:16.320

and i remember being crabby i want to

0:14:14.240,0:14:19.120

sleep at the hospital because i was just

0:14:16.320,0:14:19.120

so groggy

0:14:19.199,0:14:22.639

i told my mom later on i know mom you're

0:14:21.519,0:14:23.360

struggling to get me out of this

0:14:22.639,0:14:25.440

hospital

0:14:23.360,0:14:27.040

what you should have told me was honey

0:14:25.440,0:14:28.839

the longer you stay the more it's going

0:14:27.040,0:14:31.839

to cost

0:14:28.839,0:14:31.839

because

0:14:32.690,0:14:40.480

[Laughter]

0:14:38.320,0:14:42.079

but i i know it's a long roundabout

0:14:40.480,0:14:44.000

story but that was the story of my two

0:14:42.079,0:14:46.720

delegation i've never had issues with

0:14:44.000,0:14:47.760

it my only regret is i wish i could have

0:14:46.720,0:14:49.440

had the bicep

0:14:47.760,0:14:50.959

um i believe there's supposed to be more

0:14:49.440,0:14:52.639

benefits i think related to certain

0:14:50.959,0:14:55.680

cancers when you get that

0:14:52.639,0:14:56.000

as well but it wasn't an option for me

0:14:55.680,0:14:57.440

and

0:14:56.000,0:14:58.399

i don't know and i didn't know much

0:14:57.440,0:15:00.240

about it and i don't know if my

0:14:58.399,0:15:03.760

insurance would have covered it at all

0:15:00.240,0:15:06.639

the tubal cost me i think 600 um

0:15:03.760,0:15:07.279

i think it was originally about around 8

0:15:06.639,0:15:09.199

000.

0:15:07.279,0:15:11.680

that's what it said on the bill and then

0:15:09.199,0:15:12.880

insurance cut it down to about you know

0:15:11.680,0:15:14.910

i'm not sure

0:15:12.880,0:15:16.880

i don't think it says it's free but

0:15:14.910,0:15:19.040

[Laughter]

0:15:16.880,0:15:20.480

that's something something for you no

0:15:19.040,0:15:23.519

that's interesting because we've had

0:15:20.480,0:15:26.160

another guest on the show who has had

0:15:23.519,0:15:27.680

um that procedure done um and we're

0:15:26.160,0:15:28.800

going to catch up with her as well to

0:15:27.680,0:15:30.880

find out how that went

0:15:28.800,0:15:32.000

so we've done the before conversation

0:15:30.880,0:15:34.160

yeah and now we're going to have a

0:15:32.000,0:15:36.079

conversation with her for after

0:15:34.160,0:15:37.600

so um which is interesting because

0:15:36.079,0:15:39.199

you're already you're kind of in that

0:15:37.600,0:15:40.320

middle place where you know all about it

0:15:39.199,0:15:41.680

but um

0:15:40.320,0:15:43.519

we were learning for the first time when

0:15:41.680,0:15:45.759

we spoke to her so okay

0:15:43.519,0:15:47.920

really kind of interesting um what

0:15:45.759,0:15:51.600

you're saying even four years ago

0:15:47.920,0:15:55.839

the options were different for you yeah

0:15:51.600,0:15:59.279

and also amazing how medicine changes um

0:15:55.839,0:16:02.160

the issue with the tubal or any other

0:15:59.279,0:16:04.079

uh sterilization is of course it's not

0:16:02.160,0:16:05.440

it doesn't affect your

0:16:04.079,0:16:08.639

sorry to get graphic it doesn't affect

0:16:05.440,0:16:08.639

your periods sure

0:16:16.160,0:16:21.440

um but it doesn't affect that at all and

0:16:19.040,0:16:23.279

i have something called endometriosis

0:16:21.440,0:16:25.120

which just makes life a living hell with

0:16:23.279,0:16:27.600

your period so

0:16:25.120,0:16:29.440

even though i am sterilized that doesn't

0:16:27.600,0:16:31.120

do anything for endometriosis and i knew

0:16:29.440,0:16:31.759

that going in doesn't affect your

0:16:31.120,0:16:34.560

ovaries

0:16:31.759,0:16:36.000

so i'm still on birth control they i'm

0:16:34.560,0:16:37.839

on a new birth control they came out

0:16:36.000,0:16:40.560

with i think early this year

0:16:37.839,0:16:43.199

um and it erased my period so i haven't

0:16:40.560,0:16:46.959

seen the period in

0:16:43.199,0:16:50.160

january awesome

0:16:46.959,0:16:53.279

that's great so most of the year then

0:16:50.160,0:16:54.880

yeah yeah pretty much um i hate the fact

0:16:53.279,0:16:57.519

i have to take something every day

0:16:54.880,0:16:58.240

but you know i go on the alarm system at

0:16:57.519,0:17:00.560

10 pm

0:16:58.240,0:17:05.839

every day it goes off okay i have to

0:17:00.560,0:17:05.839

pause my game

0:17:06.880,0:17:11.120

i want to take you back to your what you

0:17:09.520,0:17:11.679

said about your childhoods and you

0:17:11.120,0:17:15.280

mentioned

0:17:11.679,0:17:16.640

you knew from middle school that you

0:17:15.280,0:17:19.839

didn't want to have kids could you put

0:17:16.640,0:17:23.760

an h on that

0:17:19.839,0:17:23.760

correct well what was that middle school

0:17:24.000,0:17:29.039

probably about 12 i'll say that i think

0:17:26.799,0:17:32.880

you enter high school in 14

0:17:29.039,0:17:32.880

sure um so about 12 12.

0:17:33.120,0:17:38.080

when i was in elementary school so

0:17:36.240,0:17:39.440

like eight or something like that nine

0:17:38.080,0:17:41.840

i'm not sure

0:17:39.440,0:17:43.440

um i didn't played with other kids i was

0:17:41.840,0:17:46.880

a kid but

0:17:43.440,0:17:47.840

it started it just was appealing less

0:17:46.880,0:17:50.080

and less to me

0:17:47.840,0:17:51.919

i just wasn't really a kid person

0:17:50.080,0:17:53.440

especially like really really young kids

0:17:51.919,0:17:57.039

and even babies

0:17:53.440,0:17:59.039

um i i babies don't really

0:17:57.039,0:18:00.080

appeal to me any either i'm not going to

0:17:59.039,0:18:02.080

say babies are horrible

0:18:00.080,0:18:03.440

creatures or anything like that these

0:18:02.080,0:18:06.400

aren't for me

0:18:03.440,0:18:07.440

um and they cry a lot so that they cry

0:18:06.400,0:18:10.799

and i'm not

0:18:07.440,0:18:10.799

not excited after that

0:18:11.520,0:18:15.600

um but at that time i just i just

0:18:13.520,0:18:18.320

realized it wasn't something i wanted

0:18:15.600,0:18:19.679

before that like in elementary school

0:18:18.320,0:18:21.679

when i was really young

0:18:19.679,0:18:22.960

i i wanted kids because that's what you

0:18:21.679,0:18:25.280

do uh

0:18:22.960,0:18:28.480

it's what everybody does and you know

0:18:25.280,0:18:31.440

obviously my parents did the same thing

0:18:28.480,0:18:32.160

and so my my i think it's a few years

0:18:31.440,0:18:34.799

ago my

0:18:32.160,0:18:36.160

since my mom retired she retired first

0:18:34.799,0:18:37.120

uh she's been going through their big

0:18:36.160,0:18:38.720

huge basements

0:18:37.120,0:18:40.320

and going through everything and trying

0:18:38.720,0:18:42.559

to get rid of stuff and trying to clean

0:18:40.320,0:18:44.080

it just do a huge deep clean down there

0:18:42.559,0:18:46.640

and she found some of our stuff when we

0:18:44.080,0:18:48.080

were kids and i think i was the second

0:18:46.640,0:18:49.919

grade she saw this little

0:18:48.080,0:18:51.440

booklet i made and it had all of my

0:18:49.919,0:18:54.160

aspirations for

0:18:51.440,0:18:56.160

the rest of my life at the age of like

0:18:54.160,0:18:57.840

seven or whatever area

0:18:56.160,0:18:59.600

and in there was like i wanted three

0:18:57.840,0:19:00.799

kids and she showed it to me i was like

0:18:59.600,0:19:05.840

burn it

0:19:00.799,0:19:05.840

now i never want to see that again wow

0:19:06.080,0:19:11.600

she didn't actually burn it no but

0:19:09.440,0:19:12.960

she um found it funny that she found

0:19:11.600,0:19:14.960

this um

0:19:12.960,0:19:16.080

and i was like yeah that's me that's

0:19:14.960,0:19:19.360

where my mind was

0:19:16.080,0:19:22.640

then but it changed a lot so um

0:19:19.360,0:19:25.679

just getting older i never had

0:19:22.640,0:19:26.880

that desire and i won't say i'm not a

0:19:25.679,0:19:29.280

nurturing person

0:19:26.880,0:19:30.880

i'm very nurturing towards my family

0:19:29.280,0:19:32.799

towards my friends

0:19:30.880,0:19:35.919

towards my hedgehog that hates me i

0:19:32.799,0:19:35.919

still love her um

0:19:36.160,0:19:40.000

yep she's in the other room she's asleep

0:19:37.919,0:19:43.679

right now today

0:19:40.000,0:19:45.440

um but i so i'm a very nurturing caring

0:19:43.679,0:19:48.240

person just

0:19:45.440,0:19:48.720

not as much towards little humans like i

0:19:48.240,0:19:52.160

0:19:48.720,0:19:52.480

i told paul before i used to work uh

0:19:52.160,0:19:54.880

when

0:19:52.480,0:19:55.919

i took taekwondo a few years ago i would

0:19:54.880,0:19:58.000

help the

0:19:55.919,0:19:59.280

them train some of the kids like some of

0:19:58.000,0:20:01.440

the advanced kids

0:19:59.280,0:20:02.880

so i did work with kids a lot of those

0:20:01.440,0:20:05.760

kids were good kids

0:20:02.880,0:20:06.960

um one had some one had issues i

0:20:05.760,0:20:08.960

couldn't really deal with him

0:20:06.960,0:20:10.799

and two were just lazy but most of them

0:20:08.960,0:20:13.760

were really good kids so

0:20:10.799,0:20:15.039

it as an adult i i have worked with kids

0:20:13.760,0:20:18.480

i've worked with kids uh

0:20:15.039,0:20:21.440

at my church back in my literature um so

0:20:18.480,0:20:22.880

i stay i don't care for kids but i used

0:20:21.440,0:20:24.320

to say i hate kids and i don't think

0:20:22.880,0:20:27.679

that's

0:20:24.320,0:20:30.159

correct anymore um they just

0:20:27.679,0:20:31.600

aren't for me they aren't really my

0:20:30.159,0:20:34.960

favorite thing

0:20:31.600,0:20:38.480

like i'll see a kid in public and

0:20:34.960,0:20:40.640

i'll kind of walk this way

0:20:38.480,0:20:42.080

around i'm not gonna say anything i'm

0:20:40.640,0:20:45.600

not gonna do anything

0:20:42.080,0:20:47.919

um but they just

0:20:45.600,0:20:48.799

i if you show me your baby i'm not going

0:20:47.919,0:20:51.679

to fawn

0:20:48.799,0:20:53.440

over it uh if you well if you say oh

0:20:51.679,0:20:56.559

here's my baby i'll oh it's you

0:20:53.440,0:20:56.559

i will say that to people

0:20:57.520,0:21:01.360

no who does that but i'm not going to go

0:21:00.240,0:21:03.840

out of my way to

0:21:01.360,0:21:04.480

hold it and cuddle it and and do all

0:21:03.840,0:21:07.760

it's just

0:21:04.480,0:21:10.559

it's just and i think i learned that in

0:21:07.760,0:21:12.400

middle closing yeah do you think that

0:21:10.559,0:21:17.520

was around about the same time

0:21:12.400,0:21:19.120

that your youngest sibling came along

0:21:17.520,0:21:21.280

well she drove me nuts maybe that was

0:21:19.120,0:21:23.520

hard

0:21:21.280,0:21:24.480

because i have my brother in the middle

0:21:23.520,0:21:26.159

but

0:21:24.480,0:21:28.159

we always got along really well he's a

0:21:26.159,0:21:30.320

gamer like me um

0:21:28.159,0:21:31.840

he's an angry gamer but he's a gamer

0:21:30.320,0:21:32.880

like me because he reads quitting all

0:21:31.840,0:21:34.400

the time

0:21:32.880,0:21:36.080

you can hear him because he still lives

0:21:34.400,0:21:38.080

with my parents so you can hear him

0:21:36.080,0:21:39.840

yelling all manner of first words

0:21:38.080,0:21:41.360

from his bedroom at night and he's

0:21:39.840,0:21:44.720

telling the people but

0:21:41.360,0:21:47.360

my sister and we get along fine now

0:21:44.720,0:21:48.559

um and she's finishing up her last year

0:21:47.360,0:21:50.480

at washington i think

0:21:48.559,0:21:52.480

it's business and fashion uh those are

0:21:50.480,0:21:55.520

her majors but

0:21:52.480,0:21:56.799

just i think i had to help with her a

0:21:55.520,0:21:59.120

little bit

0:21:56.799,0:22:00.400

i definitely wasn't one of those people

0:21:59.120,0:22:03.200

that

0:22:00.400,0:22:04.880

like the the oldest of like six kids and

0:22:03.200,0:22:05.760

their parents were either working all

0:22:04.880,0:22:08.080

the time

0:22:05.760,0:22:09.520

or they're just flipping lazy and they

0:22:08.080,0:22:12.799

make the older kids they essentially

0:22:09.520,0:22:12.799

take care of the younger one

0:22:15.120,0:22:20.000

um no like my my mom would say i'm

0:22:18.960,0:22:21.840

running to the store

0:22:20.000,0:22:24.240

can you watch your siblings for an hour

0:22:21.840,0:22:26.640

and i was like you know 13 or 14 so i'm

0:22:24.240,0:22:30.240

old enough to do that

0:22:26.640,0:22:31.760

that was the extent of me caring for my

0:22:30.240,0:22:34.000

siblings i was like okay it's an hour i

0:22:31.760,0:22:35.440

could do that

0:22:34.000,0:22:37.280

but so yeah you know i learned how to

0:22:35.440,0:22:39.600

change diapers and things like that

0:22:37.280,0:22:40.799

uh with my sister with my brother i

0:22:39.600,0:22:42.159

think i was sick so i probably didn't

0:22:40.799,0:22:44.320

learn this

0:22:42.159,0:22:46.080

at the time but for my sister definitely

0:22:44.320,0:22:48.240

and you know i helped with that

0:22:46.080,0:22:50.320

um i did minor things everyone saw i

0:22:48.240,0:22:53.280

feed her or something like that but

0:22:50.320,0:22:54.640

it i it definitely wasn't a case where i

0:22:53.280,0:22:57.679

know some child people

0:22:54.640,0:22:59.919

child free people are like that because

0:22:57.679,0:23:01.200

they essentially have to be parents to

0:22:59.919,0:23:01.840

their siblings because they didn't have

0:23:01.200,0:23:05.200

a choice

0:23:01.840,0:23:06.640

that's also not it's not the case with

0:23:05.200,0:23:08.000

0:23:06.640,0:23:10.000

that was something that i had i'd

0:23:08.000,0:23:11.360

wondered when i saw the the age gap

0:23:10.000,0:23:12.960

between you and your siblings whether

0:23:11.360,0:23:14.960

that had been the case that you'd had to

0:23:12.960,0:23:16.480

take care of the youngest sibling

0:23:14.960,0:23:18.640

and that's you kind of got out your

0:23:16.480,0:23:20.080

system i'd wondered if that was

0:23:18.640,0:23:21.919

what part of your decision-making

0:23:20.080,0:23:23.919

process but it's nice to hear that like

0:23:21.919,0:23:24.720

there's that wasn't an influence for you

0:23:23.919,0:23:27.360

it was

0:23:24.720,0:23:27.919

no you've always just felt sure about

0:23:27.360,0:23:30.640

yourself

0:23:27.919,0:23:31.919

and yeah you feel yeah to me what

0:23:30.640,0:23:35.200

strikes me as

0:23:31.919,0:23:35.520

has been so so striking i guess i i work

0:23:35.200,0:23:36.799

0:23:35.520,0:23:38.799

secondary school as people call them

0:23:36.799,0:23:42.320

here i work with

0:23:38.799,0:23:43.520

young people who imagine who are 11 12

0:23:42.320,0:23:47.039

13 the sort of age

0:23:43.520,0:23:48.080

you are to me i can't imagine having a

0:23:47.039,0:23:50.720

conversation with

0:23:48.080,0:23:51.679

with one of those pupils and they for

0:23:50.720,0:23:54.480

them to be

0:23:51.679,0:23:55.360

as sure as it seems that you are and

0:23:54.480,0:23:57.120

you're

0:23:55.360,0:23:59.360

or you where i guess and your your

0:23:57.120,0:24:01.360

mindset back then can you think of

0:23:59.360,0:24:02.960

can you think of a point when you

0:24:01.360,0:24:04.320

realize that was the case or

0:24:02.960,0:24:06.240

can you perhaps think of what was

0:24:04.320,0:24:09.919

influencing you at the time that then

0:24:06.240,0:24:10.640

made that mindset stick unfortunately i

0:24:09.919,0:24:13.760

don't know if i

0:24:10.640,0:24:15.360

can i just i think i was gradually

0:24:13.760,0:24:17.679

realizing that's not really

0:24:15.360,0:24:19.600

my thing uh it definitely wasn't

0:24:17.679,0:24:22.799

something i was thinking about too much

0:24:19.600,0:24:26.240

as a middle schooler um i think

0:24:22.799,0:24:27.919

it manifested itself more in high school

0:24:26.240,0:24:29.279

i know that inkling was there in middle

0:24:27.919,0:24:31.440

school but

0:24:29.279,0:24:32.880

i guess it got stronger in high school

0:24:31.440,0:24:35.039

um i had some

0:24:32.880,0:24:36.480

you know female friends who said because

0:24:35.039,0:24:37.840

i would tell people all the time i don't

0:24:36.480,0:24:38.400

like kids i don't like kids i don't like

0:24:37.840,0:24:40.080

0:24:38.400,0:24:41.440

and they would say yeah you're gonna be

0:24:40.080,0:24:42.400

the first one of us to get pregnant

0:24:41.440,0:24:43.039

you're not even gonna make it out of

0:24:42.400,0:24:45.039

high school

0:24:43.039,0:24:47.039

and you'll be pregnant uh and they would

0:24:45.039,0:24:48.000

constantly tease me about that and high

0:24:47.039,0:24:52.000

school ended

0:24:48.000,0:24:52.000

and all three of them got pregnant

0:24:54.159,0:25:00.320

that's like i don't know if i can middle

0:24:55.919,0:25:02.240

finger but yeah

0:25:00.320,0:25:03.760

so yeah i got that teasing in high

0:25:02.240,0:25:07.120

school but that

0:25:03.760,0:25:08.720

i think it manifested itself more in

0:25:07.120,0:25:11.279

high school because

0:25:08.720,0:25:13.360

that's generally a time where people can

0:25:11.279,0:25:14.080

get pregnant or well i'm sorry i do get

0:25:13.360,0:25:17.200

pregnant

0:25:14.080,0:25:19.520

or get someone pregnant um

0:25:17.200,0:25:21.600

i yeah i guess talked about more about

0:25:19.520,0:25:23.600

that period doesn't it

0:25:21.600,0:25:25.039

yeah i i thankfully do not remember

0:25:23.600,0:25:25.919

anyone in my middle school getting

0:25:25.039,0:25:27.679

pregnant

0:25:25.919,0:25:29.279

because that's i mean it it is

0:25:27.679,0:25:31.520

physically possible

0:25:29.279,0:25:32.720

but that's a horrifying concept to me

0:25:31.520,0:25:35.120

that you're

0:25:32.720,0:25:36.000

12 and you're pregnant or you're 12 and

0:25:35.120,0:25:37.919

you've got someone

0:25:36.000,0:25:39.440

pregnant that's it yes i know it can

0:25:37.919,0:25:43.120

happen it has

0:25:39.440,0:25:45.120

but i think that's why it was

0:25:43.120,0:25:46.400

that's when i first got the idea in my

0:25:45.120,0:25:48.400

mind but

0:25:46.400,0:25:50.559

it wasn't uh something i thought of a

0:25:48.400,0:25:51.600

lot in this yeah not a fully developed

0:25:50.559,0:25:53.279

concept but

0:25:51.600,0:25:55.360

definitely in the back the seed of it

0:25:53.279,0:25:57.279

was like

0:25:55.360,0:25:58.559

because it wasn't it wasn't in my the

0:25:57.279,0:25:58.880

forefront the forefront you know that

0:25:58.559,0:26:01.120

was

0:25:58.880,0:26:03.440

was getting bullied a lot so that was in

0:26:01.120,0:26:06.320

the forefront of my mind at the time

0:26:03.440,0:26:06.320

um and

0:26:06.720,0:26:11.039

even like adults they don't they don't

0:26:09.200,0:26:12.240

really talk to you about having kids and

0:26:11.039,0:26:13.360

things like that when you're in middle

0:26:12.240,0:26:15.200

school

0:26:13.360,0:26:16.400

most don't talk to you about that like

0:26:15.200,0:26:18.080

no one in my family

0:26:16.400,0:26:19.919

no one in my church they're not talking

0:26:18.080,0:26:21.120

to us about having kids in high school

0:26:19.919,0:26:23.679

either

0:26:21.120,0:26:25.120

they want us to not do that they want us

0:26:23.679,0:26:26.799

to go off to college

0:26:25.120,0:26:28.400

or trade school or the military or

0:26:26.799,0:26:32.240

whatever you care about sure

0:26:28.400,0:26:33.440

uh so that inkling was there in middle

0:26:32.240,0:26:35.520

school but it

0:26:33.440,0:26:37.120

i think i expressed it a lot more in

0:26:35.520,0:26:38.960

high school because that was definitely

0:26:37.120,0:26:42.400

the time where it was

0:26:38.960,0:26:44.559

more common to have a kid

0:26:42.400,0:26:45.919

a monarchy i want to ask you about

0:26:44.559,0:26:46.799

something you mentioned before when we

0:26:45.919,0:26:49.919

were

0:26:46.799,0:26:51.600

prepping for for this this episode

0:26:49.919,0:26:53.039

you spoke about a misconception that

0:26:51.600,0:26:55.360

exists we met

0:26:53.039,0:26:57.039

through reddit we met on a i think it

0:26:55.360,0:26:58.559

was a child-free subreddit

0:26:57.039,0:27:00.640

and you you said that there's a

0:26:58.559,0:27:02.320

misconception that if you are a

0:27:00.640,0:27:05.360

child-free person

0:27:02.320,0:27:07.520

that you immediately hate children where

0:27:05.360,0:27:10.799

does that come from

0:27:07.520,0:27:12.400

um there's a lot of theories i don't

0:27:10.799,0:27:14.320

know if there's any specific like

0:27:12.400,0:27:16.559

scientific research to back this up so

0:27:14.320,0:27:20.320

this is probably going to be anecdotal

0:27:16.559,0:27:23.679

um and i think part of it

0:27:20.320,0:27:26.960

involves society um society

0:27:23.679,0:27:28.320

our society as americans very very

0:27:26.960,0:27:31.679

kid-centric

0:27:28.320,0:27:34.480

um we are uh

0:27:31.679,0:27:36.559

just a lot of leeway for kids and for

0:27:34.480,0:27:38.960

you know a lot of people who have them

0:27:36.559,0:27:40.960

so and it's just again it's also it's

0:27:38.960,0:27:42.000

often expected you are going to grow up

0:27:40.960,0:27:45.360

get married

0:27:42.000,0:27:50.000

kids retire die that's your life

0:27:45.360,0:27:50.000

congrats um done you did a good job

0:27:51.919,0:27:58.880

oh my god i'm dying um don't do it

0:27:55.679,0:28:02.799

i'm not finished speaking to you

0:27:58.880,0:28:03.760

they killed me this conversation pushed

0:28:02.799,0:28:06.399

her over the edge

0:28:03.760,0:28:06.399

never happened

0:28:07.039,0:28:12.240

um but no

0:28:10.240,0:28:14.840

that is if you're not having kids you

0:28:12.240,0:28:18.799

automatically hate kids

0:28:14.840,0:28:18.799

and it's

0:28:19.520,0:28:24.399

i think a big part of it is society just

0:28:22.640,0:28:26.080

how can you not want kids you must be a

0:28:24.399,0:28:29.440

child-hating monster

0:28:26.080,0:28:31.200

and it's it's not at all true there are

0:28:29.440,0:28:32.559

some people who don't care for kids in

0:28:31.200,0:28:34.480

varying degrees

0:28:32.559,0:28:36.399

and i'm probably a terrible person

0:28:34.480,0:28:40.480

asking because i'm not a fan of kids

0:28:36.399,0:28:42.799

but i don't outright hate them

0:28:40.480,0:28:44.799

um there are a lot of people who work

0:28:42.799,0:28:46.480

with kids they are teachers they are

0:28:44.799,0:28:49.440

nannies or au pairs

0:28:46.480,0:28:50.080

they volunteer big brothers big sisters

0:28:49.440,0:28:52.320

0:28:50.080,0:28:54.080

so there are a lot of people who regular

0:28:52.320,0:28:54.559

social workers they regularly work with

0:28:54.080,0:28:56.240

kids

0:28:54.559,0:28:59.440

and they love kids they just don't want

0:28:56.240,0:29:02.799

their own there are some people who

0:28:59.440,0:29:05.440

are about strangers kids but

0:29:02.799,0:29:07.440

like they are the cool uncle or aunt and

0:29:05.440,0:29:11.360

they love their nieces and nephews

0:29:07.440,0:29:12.720

um there are some people who just flat

0:29:11.360,0:29:15.760

out do not like kids

0:29:12.720,0:29:18.480

and that's fine too but it is like

0:29:15.760,0:29:19.679

with most things it is a spectrum there

0:29:18.480,0:29:21.919

are people on

0:29:19.679,0:29:22.799

one side on the other and many many in

0:29:21.919,0:29:26.080

the middle

0:29:22.799,0:29:28.559

um so i think just the fact

0:29:26.080,0:29:30.399

that especially a woman if she doesn't

0:29:28.559,0:29:31.520

want kids she must be a child-hating

0:29:30.399,0:29:34.559

monster

0:29:31.520,0:29:35.520

um it's there's a lot of misconceptions

0:29:34.559,0:29:36.960

about women that

0:29:35.520,0:29:39.360

especially if they aren't married by a

0:29:36.960,0:29:40.320

certain time and you're a baron spencer

0:29:39.360,0:29:44.000

that's you know

0:29:40.320,0:29:44.000

a crabby witch that lives in the floor

0:29:44.240,0:29:48.080

i do so hope that that is changing like

0:29:46.399,0:29:49.919

modern society should be getting around

0:29:48.080,0:29:51.360

to the fact now that

0:29:49.919,0:29:53.840

everybody has different choices they're

0:29:51.360,0:29:55.600

making different choices and that's okay

0:29:53.840,0:29:59.440

like i'm not really sure

0:29:55.600,0:30:02.559

why we're so slow to change but

0:29:59.440,0:30:02.559

well we're american so

0:30:02.720,0:30:05.840

speak for yourself that's all i have to

0:30:04.080,0:30:10.159

say

0:30:05.840,0:30:13.200

and yes i say that as an american um

0:30:10.159,0:30:15.360

then won't get into politics but our

0:30:13.200,0:30:17.440

politics

0:30:15.360,0:30:19.520

our politics are well on display right

0:30:17.440,0:30:21.520

now well the thing is it's the same in

0:30:19.520,0:30:22.159

our country is very much a 50 50-50

0:30:21.520,0:30:24.480

split

0:30:22.159,0:30:25.200

in our country at the moment and where

0:30:24.480,0:30:27.919

we had

0:30:25.200,0:30:29.279

a a big vote for leaving europe or

0:30:27.919,0:30:32.720

staying in europe

0:30:29.279,0:30:34.399

and so you can see that the

0:30:32.720,0:30:36.720

society as a whole does seem to be in

0:30:34.399,0:30:38.159

that transition period they're fractured

0:30:36.720,0:30:39.840

there's half people who believe another

0:30:38.159,0:30:42.080

thing or half people it's maybe not even

0:30:39.840,0:30:43.760

a belief structure it's just

0:30:42.080,0:30:45.360

it just i think it's a very good

0:30:43.760,0:30:47.120

representation of how

0:30:45.360,0:30:50.000

society at the moment is on a pivotal

0:30:47.120,0:30:53.760

point where it could go either way

0:30:50.000,0:30:55.440

and um i suppose in a hundred years time

0:30:53.760,0:30:57.919

when people looking back that'll be an

0:30:55.440,0:30:58.480

exciting thing to look back on and we'll

0:30:57.919,0:31:00.399

not

0:30:58.480,0:31:02.000

but we don't realize kind of where we

0:31:00.399,0:31:04.480

are in that point in history right now

0:31:02.000,0:31:06.320

so transitional yeah it's very

0:31:04.480,0:31:08.240

transitional i think it's it's very

0:31:06.320,0:31:10.240

evident by the fact that

0:31:08.240,0:31:12.080

big western countries like america and

0:31:10.240,0:31:15.039

britain

0:31:12.080,0:31:17.279

are split right down the middle um and

0:31:15.039,0:31:19.519

on the viewpoints of things and

0:31:17.279,0:31:20.960

probably children and child care and

0:31:19.519,0:31:21.440

having children and all those things

0:31:20.960,0:31:23.519

i'll be

0:31:21.440,0:31:25.039

included in that kind of spectrum that

0:31:23.519,0:31:27.679

you're talking about

0:31:25.039,0:31:28.240

with um that just difference of her

0:31:27.679,0:31:31.120

opinion

0:31:28.240,0:31:32.000

with like yeah exactly it's really

0:31:31.120,0:31:34.720

interesting

0:31:32.000,0:31:35.919

monica and what you said a number of

0:31:34.720,0:31:40.159

those

0:31:35.919,0:31:43.200

sort of images um really

0:31:40.159,0:31:46.480

really what's the word um

0:31:43.200,0:31:48.880

epitomize ryan and i in the sense that

0:31:46.480,0:31:50.240

you spoke about teachers who who do

0:31:48.880,0:31:51.519

their job and they love their job and

0:31:50.240,0:31:52.080

they work with with children young

0:31:51.519,0:31:53.840

people

0:31:52.080,0:31:55.440

and they don't know or they don't want

0:31:53.840,0:31:57.760

to have kids and i'm sort of in that

0:31:55.440,0:31:59.600

boat right now where i don't know myself

0:31:57.760,0:32:00.320

he spoke about ryan you swear you spoke

0:31:59.600,0:32:02.480

about

0:32:00.320,0:32:03.600

um people want to be the cool uncle or

0:32:02.480,0:32:06.159

the cool aunt and that's

0:32:03.600,0:32:07.840

where i was yeah a few years back yeah

0:32:06.159,0:32:09.360

absolutely in previous episodes he's

0:32:07.840,0:32:10.640

dialed into that and spoken about it

0:32:09.360,0:32:13.120

had to have spoken at a great length

0:32:10.640,0:32:14.240

about that it's so interesting that that

0:32:13.120,0:32:16.640

permeates throughout the world i

0:32:14.240,0:32:18.159

wondered um a monarchy what your

0:32:16.640,0:32:21.360

experience is

0:32:18.159,0:32:22.399

have you had have you have you had

0:32:21.360,0:32:25.039

people who have

0:32:22.399,0:32:26.080

been affronted by your decision have you

0:32:25.039,0:32:27.840

had people who have

0:32:26.080,0:32:29.360

basically said that well as a child-free

0:32:27.840,0:32:32.640

woman you must

0:32:29.360,0:32:35.279

hate children i

0:32:32.640,0:32:36.240

thankfully haven't in part because i've

0:32:35.279,0:32:38.559

said that myself

0:32:36.240,0:32:40.240

back when i was saying i hate kids

0:32:38.559,0:32:42.480

that's what i would say i hate kids

0:32:40.240,0:32:43.919

so i didn't give you a chance to tell me

0:32:42.480,0:32:47.120

that i just

0:32:43.919,0:32:49.679

take that but

0:32:47.120,0:32:51.200

just again i've been extremely fortunate

0:32:49.679,0:32:53.440

because i read a lot of

0:32:51.200,0:32:54.880

you know the other stories on that sub

0:32:53.440,0:32:56.559

specifically

0:32:54.880,0:32:58.960

um and a lot of people aren't as lucky

0:32:56.559,0:33:02.000

as me um they're just affronted on

0:32:58.960,0:33:03.440

all sides by friends by family by that

0:33:02.000,0:33:04.399

lady in the grocery store that can't

0:33:03.440,0:33:07.679

mind your own business

0:33:04.399,0:33:10.559

it really doesn't make any sense but um

0:33:07.679,0:33:13.440

so i i verbally have told people i'm not

0:33:10.559,0:33:16.480

a kid person i'm just not a fan of kids

0:33:13.440,0:33:20.799

but excuse me but i've never

0:33:16.480,0:33:23.440

been really um

0:33:20.799,0:33:25.840

i've never been like attacked for my

0:33:23.440,0:33:25.840

choice

0:33:26.640,0:33:29.840

yeah it's and again i'm very fortunate

0:33:29.279,0:33:31.200

i'm very

0:33:29.840,0:33:33.039

lucky in that regard because a lot of

0:33:31.200,0:33:35.039

people don't get that um

0:33:33.039,0:33:36.399

you know i told people you know i just

0:33:35.039,0:33:39.200

don't want kids okay

0:33:36.399,0:33:40.080

a few people you know ask why um and

0:33:39.200,0:33:42.000

i'll just say

0:33:40.080,0:33:43.919

i'll just explain they aren't for me

0:33:42.000,0:33:45.360

they're not i'm not interested in them i

0:33:43.919,0:33:47.840

don't want to be a parent

0:33:45.360,0:33:48.480

and they say oh and we talk about

0:33:47.840,0:33:51.679

something else

0:33:48.480,0:33:54.799

which is how it should be um but

0:33:51.679,0:33:56.960

yeah there are some people that uh

0:33:54.799,0:33:59.840

just and now these are stories i've read

0:33:56.960,0:34:04.159

unlike reddit so these aren't my stories

0:33:59.840,0:34:06.720

just from a boss or a co-worker or

0:34:04.159,0:34:08.159

uh or family member you know why aren't

0:34:06.720,0:34:10.800

you having kids

0:34:08.159,0:34:11.839

you know you that's what women are

0:34:10.800,0:34:14.159

supposed to do

0:34:11.839,0:34:15.839

or you know you should be carrying on

0:34:14.159,0:34:19.040

the family name you know if you're male

0:34:15.839,0:34:21.200

or female or male respectively um it's

0:34:19.040,0:34:23.760

or i want grandkids or you know whatever

0:34:21.200,0:34:23.760

it may be

0:34:24.000,0:34:29.679

and i feel so awful for those people

0:34:27.200,0:34:29.679

because

0:34:30.560,0:34:34.560

how does your how how does me have it

0:34:33.200,0:34:36.560

not having his affect you

0:34:34.560,0:34:38.399

how's that affect your life yeah i i

0:34:36.560,0:34:40.960

often wonder why people who have

0:34:38.399,0:34:41.599

absolutely no investment in your life at

0:34:40.960,0:34:45.119

all

0:34:41.599,0:34:46.079

feel like they have a say in your life

0:34:45.119,0:34:48.480

like you're saying the women in the

0:34:46.079,0:34:49.679

grocery store for example why like she's

0:34:48.480,0:34:52.000

never going to see you again why does

0:34:49.679,0:34:54.159

she care

0:34:52.000,0:34:55.599

well how dare you not fit the mold

0:34:54.159,0:34:57.760

that's what i would and some people

0:34:55.599,0:34:57.760

think

0:34:58.079,0:35:02.079

it's yeah some people are like just you

0:35:00.240,0:35:03.760

know this is what we do as human beings

0:35:02.079,0:35:04.880

you need to fall in line some people

0:35:03.760,0:35:06.640

have that

0:35:04.880,0:35:09.440

i understand you know some you know

0:35:06.640,0:35:13.520

parents want grandkids to spoil

0:35:09.440,0:35:16.480

um but that was definitely my experience

0:35:13.520,0:35:17.920

my mom was definitely when you're having

0:35:16.480,0:35:19.599

when you're having grandkids

0:35:17.920,0:35:22.880

ryan when's that happening you've got

0:35:19.599,0:35:22.880

married so surely

0:35:22.960,0:35:27.200

so that's the yeah it was a bit of an

0:35:25.119,0:35:28.720

expectation but that that i know my mum

0:35:27.200,0:35:29.280

so that she's obviously going to be like

0:35:28.720,0:35:31.040

that

0:35:29.280,0:35:32.880

but other people weren't very pushy

0:35:31.040,0:35:35.440

about it like my mum is

0:35:32.880,0:35:36.400

i've lauren to herself and that's okay

0:35:35.440,0:35:38.000

um and she's

0:35:36.400,0:35:40.240

she's got some investment in my life so

0:35:38.000,0:35:43.359

she you know she's allowed to have

0:35:40.240,0:35:44.000

um a say but random people on the street

0:35:43.359,0:35:47.200

or even

0:35:44.000,0:35:47.680

friends that like you see you see them

0:35:47.200,0:35:49.839

but

0:35:47.680,0:35:51.359

they don't live your life for you so how

0:35:49.839,0:35:52.320

can they say what you should and

0:35:51.359,0:35:54.000

shouldn't do

0:35:52.320,0:35:56.240

i mean this the reason why we did this

0:35:54.000,0:35:58.240

podcast was one not to be judgey in any

0:35:56.240,0:36:01.359

way we just find it really interesting

0:35:58.240,0:36:03.920

how seemingly mundane topics or

0:36:01.359,0:36:05.520

seemingly everyday topics um

0:36:03.920,0:36:07.200

there's different walks of life

0:36:05.520,0:36:08.720

different people different um

0:36:07.200,0:36:11.280

thought processes and it's the thought

0:36:08.720,0:36:12.560

processes that spark our enthusiasm on

0:36:11.280,0:36:15.920

this because

0:36:12.560,0:36:17.599

um the why is kind of the interesting

0:36:15.920,0:36:20.960

part of this for us

0:36:17.599,0:36:22.320

um and that's probably evident in the

0:36:20.960,0:36:25.040

kind of questions we've asked you

0:36:22.320,0:36:26.880

um about your childhoods and your

0:36:25.040,0:36:28.000

thought process and decision making

0:36:26.880,0:36:29.920

process

0:36:28.000,0:36:31.200

um is there anything else you could

0:36:29.920,0:36:33.359

pinpoint

0:36:31.200,0:36:34.400

uh or is it just do you think your own

0:36:33.359,0:36:37.280

personality

0:36:34.400,0:36:39.359

that is is the reason for it that it's

0:36:37.280,0:36:41.680

there's no kind of external factor it

0:36:39.359,0:36:43.680

just is who you are

0:36:41.680,0:36:45.520

i think it really is more who i am i was

0:36:43.680,0:36:49.440

never pressured to

0:36:45.520,0:36:51.119

have children um and the people who

0:36:49.440,0:36:52.560

throw in their two cents i have no

0:36:51.119,0:36:54.240

problem ignoring them

0:36:52.560,0:36:55.839

because it's easy to throw in your two

0:36:54.240,0:36:58.480

cents when

0:36:55.839,0:36:59.359

you lose nothing when you're not vested

0:36:58.480,0:37:01.599

in it

0:36:59.359,0:37:03.119

um so yes easy for oh you have cute you

0:37:01.599,0:37:04.960

know babies

0:37:03.119,0:37:07.119

you aren't raising them though are you i

0:37:04.960,0:37:10.960

wish it would be all my

0:37:07.119,0:37:12.240

i could lose and i especially as a woman

0:37:10.960,0:37:14.160

in the modern era

0:37:12.240,0:37:15.760

i think more and more women are thinking

0:37:14.160,0:37:16.960

about

0:37:15.760,0:37:19.200

actually thinking about whether they

0:37:16.960,0:37:21.599

want kids when they want kids and

0:37:19.200,0:37:23.599

because more and more there's so much

0:37:21.599,0:37:27.359

information at your fingertips

0:37:23.599,0:37:29.760

and you can see what it takes to

0:37:27.359,0:37:31.920

raise a kid not just financially but

0:37:29.760,0:37:35.200

there are a lot of other costs to it

0:37:31.920,0:37:36.240

um and so i i know those costs i don't

0:37:35.200,0:37:40.160

want

0:37:36.240,0:37:42.400

it's not worth it to me and so i know it

0:37:40.160,0:37:44.240

my mind isn't going to change and i'm

0:37:42.400,0:37:47.359

very fortunate that i have parents

0:37:44.240,0:37:50.160

that um support me in that decision

0:37:47.359,0:37:50.880

i actually had a conversation like that

0:37:50.160,0:37:52.640

i was

0:37:50.880,0:37:54.320

uh visiting my parents you know weekly

0:37:52.640,0:37:57.760

visit over at their house

0:37:54.320,0:38:00.960

um and my sister had to be there and

0:37:57.760,0:38:03.680

yeah we were talking about dating

0:38:00.960,0:38:05.119

and my sister and i and my dad just

0:38:03.680,0:38:08.160

happened to walk in the room

0:38:05.119,0:38:12.240

and she brought up some goofy

0:38:08.160,0:38:15.599

dating uh dating service where it was

0:38:12.240,0:38:17.119

like men pay and you go

0:38:15.599,0:38:18.560

i don't know it was very weird it was

0:38:17.119,0:38:19.839

something i was like that'll sit right

0:38:18.560,0:38:22.880

with me that's weird i want men paying

0:38:19.839,0:38:22.880

me for dates that's freaky

0:38:23.200,0:38:26.320

i don't know i'd be okay if you paid me

0:38:24.640,0:38:28.640

for if you paid me for a date i think

0:38:26.320,0:38:30.000

i'd be okay with that

0:38:28.640,0:38:32.960

i was gonna ask what's your wife gonna

0:38:30.000,0:38:32.960

say yes i

0:38:41.280,0:38:45.680

and you're making money for it maybe

0:38:42.880,0:38:46.079

maybe it was a very weird thing that my

0:38:45.680,0:38:47.359

sister

0:38:46.079,0:38:49.839

brought up my dad happened to walk in

0:38:47.359,0:38:50.240

the room and he's like what the heck are

0:38:49.839,0:38:52.320

you

0:38:50.240,0:38:53.520

talking about that sounds weird can we

0:38:52.320,0:38:56.400

explain

0:38:53.520,0:38:57.520

um so what was the name of that that

0:38:56.400,0:39:00.960

happened

0:38:57.520,0:39:00.960

let me just remember

0:39:08.960,0:39:12.800

how do you feel about us you know

0:39:11.200,0:39:13.359

getting married and everything and he's

0:39:12.800,0:39:14.560

0:39:13.359,0:39:18.160

you don't have to get married or have

0:39:14.560,0:39:18.960

kids to be happy to fulfill myself your

0:39:18.160,0:39:20.560

mom

0:39:18.960,0:39:22.079

and that honestly surprised me because

0:39:20.560,0:39:24.000

my dad's nigeria

0:39:22.079,0:39:26.400

um they're they're very big on they

0:39:24.000,0:39:29.280

don't necessarily have big family

0:39:26.400,0:39:30.400

um all the nigerian uncles and aunts i

0:39:29.280,0:39:32.400

know here in the state

0:39:30.400,0:39:33.680

they have three or fewer kids they don't

0:39:32.400,0:39:37.040

have big men okay

0:39:33.680,0:39:39.920

so um but the fact that they're very

0:39:37.040,0:39:41.040

family-centric that surprised me when he

0:39:39.920,0:39:43.200

said that to me

0:39:41.040,0:39:45.040

i was like are you are you wait what i

0:39:43.200,0:39:47.680

mean i'm sterilized anyway so that's

0:39:45.040,0:39:49.680

just sale but

0:39:47.680,0:39:51.440

he's like yeah i don't care if you have

0:39:49.680,0:39:52.880

ever get married if you ever have kids

0:39:51.440,0:39:54.640

it's up to you

0:39:52.880,0:39:56.640

maybe he just wanted you to know that he

0:39:54.640,0:39:59.280

was still on your side regardless

0:39:56.640,0:40:01.040

yeah i i was very i was very pleased i

0:39:59.280,0:40:02.640

was just surprised i was like

0:40:01.040,0:40:04.160

aren't you supposed to you know get

0:40:02.640,0:40:05.839

married and pass on the family he's like

0:40:04.160,0:40:06.240

well maybe like in the 80s or whatever

0:40:05.839,0:40:07.520

but

0:40:06.240,0:40:10.400

we've gotten past that we don't care

0:40:07.520,0:40:11.920

anymore but okay cool that that worked

0:40:10.400,0:40:13.599

i think an an argument for that is

0:40:11.920,0:40:15.680

probably how many failed marriages has

0:40:13.599,0:40:17.760

been since like the 80s to now

0:40:15.680,0:40:19.680

from what and people have stayed

0:40:17.760,0:40:20.079

together because only because of kids

0:40:19.680,0:40:23.520

some

0:40:20.079,0:40:25.040

people um and like

0:40:23.520,0:40:26.319

i don't have the statistics to hand so

0:40:25.040,0:40:26.800

i'm just making this up off the top of

0:40:26.319,0:40:29.920

my head

0:40:26.800,0:40:32.000

29 yeah

0:40:29.920,0:40:33.760

but i'm sure the percentage for for

0:40:32.000,0:40:36.240

failed marriages in the

0:40:33.760,0:40:37.280

over for well in the last 30 40 years

0:40:36.240,0:40:39.520

has to be

0:40:37.280,0:40:40.720

fairly high it has to be they start off

0:40:39.520,0:40:44.640

and i thought it was about

0:40:40.720,0:40:47.839

50 50. yes as much as that

0:40:44.640,0:40:49.359

and then divorce today um but yeah since

0:40:47.839,0:40:51.839

i think the 70s

0:40:49.359,0:40:53.760

they it shut up it's probably because it

0:40:51.839,0:40:54.880

has become easier and the stigma is not

0:40:53.760,0:40:56.960

as big and

0:40:54.880,0:40:58.480

right and women have more choices as

0:40:56.960,0:41:01.280

opposed to exactly yeah

0:40:58.480,0:41:02.480

just everybody has more choices and i

0:41:01.280,0:41:04.400

think that's a good thing like the world

0:41:02.480,0:41:07.599

should be full of choices and

0:41:04.400,0:41:08.319

and not people not be like judged for

0:41:07.599,0:41:11.599

that

0:41:08.319,0:41:12.560

yeah let's talk about dating i'm really

0:41:11.599,0:41:15.839

interested to know

0:41:12.560,0:41:17.200

yeah so that app again yeah let me just

0:41:15.839,0:41:21.839

get my pin

0:41:17.200,0:41:21.839

i have to text my sister because i

0:41:29.599,0:41:37.839

i'm sure ryan will message you privately

0:41:34.560,0:41:38.560

what is it like approaching dating as a

0:41:37.839,0:41:41.920

child free

0:41:38.560,0:41:41.920

as a sterilized person

0:41:42.000,0:41:45.200

obviously you don't lead with that i'm

0:41:43.760,0:41:46.160

surely i'm sure that's not like your

0:41:45.200,0:41:48.400

first thing

0:41:46.160,0:41:49.680

on a profile or in a if you meet

0:41:48.400,0:41:51.520

somebody you don't go

0:41:49.680,0:41:53.200

so i don't want kids is that your first

0:41:51.520,0:41:56.720

introduction to

0:41:53.200,0:41:58.880

kind of yes oh really but

0:41:56.720,0:42:00.240

i am definitely the wrong person to ask

0:41:58.880,0:42:02.079

i'll try and answer

0:42:00.240,0:42:04.480

uh my last relationship was when i was

0:42:02.079,0:42:06.880

an undergrad that was

0:42:04.480,0:42:07.520

2010. i haven't been in a relationship

0:42:06.880,0:42:10.720

since then

0:42:07.520,0:42:12.560

so um and as i

0:42:10.720,0:42:14.400

told paul before we talked you know

0:42:12.560,0:42:16.160

before the recording um

0:42:14.400,0:42:18.480

a large chunk of that was i was trying

0:42:16.160,0:42:21.119

to find my own feet i was trying to

0:42:18.480,0:42:22.880

get a job you know get started career

0:42:21.119,0:42:24.560

didn't happen went to grad school done

0:42:22.880,0:42:26.400

it or not i was caring about

0:42:24.560,0:42:27.599

career and where i'm gonna stay and

0:42:26.400,0:42:31.119

settle so

0:42:27.599,0:42:34.400

for me i wasn't focused really at all

0:42:31.119,0:42:35.839

on dating not almost none of it these

0:42:34.400,0:42:39.280

past 10 years

0:42:35.839,0:42:42.240

um i've

0:42:39.280,0:42:43.359

gone out and i've met people in like my

0:42:42.240,0:42:44.800

meet up groups

0:42:43.359,0:42:46.480

run an anime group i run a mystery

0:42:44.800,0:42:47.040

science theater group now currently

0:42:46.480,0:42:50.400

online

0:42:47.040,0:42:52.079

um but i would meet people that way but

0:42:50.400,0:42:54.240

nothing really ever panned out there was

0:42:52.079,0:42:57.440

one guy who was interested in me

0:42:54.240,0:42:58.000

but we hit a crossroad he is on the

0:42:57.440,0:43:01.440

fence about

0:42:58.000,0:43:02.720

kids um and he is pro-life i am very

0:43:01.440,0:43:05.680

much pro-choice

0:43:02.720,0:43:08.079

and those two can't really work together

0:43:05.680,0:43:10.839

so outside of him i haven't really seen

0:43:08.079,0:43:13.680

much dating um or have that kind of

0:43:10.839,0:43:14.560

experience i will say i am on uk cupid

0:43:13.680,0:43:17.920

now

0:43:14.560,0:43:21.119

um i just on a whim one day during coco

0:43:17.920,0:43:24.000

i'll make another profile whatever um

0:43:21.119,0:43:26.079

yeah and i got quite a few matches and

0:43:24.000,0:43:29.839

intros or whatever they call them

0:43:26.079,0:43:29.839

um but

0:43:30.240,0:43:36.160

it's it's a lot of people love it a lot

0:43:34.400,0:43:37.440

of childhood people lament that it's

0:43:36.160,0:43:38.560

really hard dating when you're

0:43:37.440,0:43:42.400

challenged

0:43:38.560,0:43:45.760

and for me like on my profile

0:43:42.400,0:43:48.960

uh on okcupid it's on there um

0:43:45.760,0:43:52.000

it's on there twice actually um

0:43:48.960,0:43:53.599

they have a little uh like oh if you get

0:43:52.000,0:43:54.000

on someone's profile off to the right

0:43:53.599,0:43:55.440

side

0:43:54.000,0:43:57.680

there's like a little blurb like a

0:43:55.440,0:44:00.319

little summary of

0:43:57.680,0:44:01.200

why you know religion or i'm sorry race

0:44:00.319,0:44:03.359

religion

0:44:01.200,0:44:04.480

um whether you smoke whether you drink

0:44:03.359,0:44:04.960

whether you have kids whether you have

0:44:04.480,0:44:07.520

pets

0:44:04.960,0:44:08.720

it's at the top so if any if you don't

0:44:07.520,0:44:11.040

want to go through somebody's

0:44:08.720,0:44:12.079

big giant profile you can look at that

0:44:11.040,0:44:14.560

little blur

0:44:12.079,0:44:15.570

the lazy part of dating the lazy window

0:44:14.560,0:44:17.680

in the corner

0:44:15.570,0:44:20.240

[Laughter]

0:44:17.680,0:44:21.119

and at times i will admit i do use the

0:44:20.240,0:44:23.520

way

0:44:21.119,0:44:24.480

the way i look at profiles is like i'll

0:44:23.520,0:44:25.760

get someone

0:44:24.480,0:44:28.160

some guy will message me and they'll

0:44:25.760,0:44:29.599

send me an intro um and obviously their

0:44:28.160,0:44:30.240

picture is there but i'm not really

0:44:29.599,0:44:32.079

going to pay

0:44:30.240,0:44:34.240

attention to your picture i'm going to

0:44:32.079,0:44:35.280

see it because it pops up when you send

0:44:34.240,0:44:36.319

me an intro

0:44:35.280,0:44:38.000

but i'm not going to look at that i'm

0:44:36.319,0:44:39.359

going to click on your name and the

0:44:38.000,0:44:40.640

first thing i'm going to look at is that

0:44:39.359,0:44:43.040

little blurb

0:44:40.640,0:44:44.880

to be perfectly honest and i'm looking

0:44:43.040,0:44:47.440

for a couple things

0:44:44.880,0:44:47.920

um on my profile it says does god have

0:44:47.440,0:44:50.960

kids

0:44:47.920,0:44:54.560

does not want if it says

0:44:50.960,0:44:59.200

does not have but might want but wants

0:44:54.560,0:45:02.640

or has kids then i'm passing right there

0:44:59.200,0:45:04.800

that helps me cut people out yes

0:45:02.640,0:45:06.319

i can see how helpful that would be for

0:45:04.800,0:45:07.839

for you if you're not

0:45:06.319,0:45:09.920

looking for the the children in your

0:45:07.839,0:45:12.800

life right um

0:45:09.920,0:45:14.480

to have a section that says them not not

0:45:12.800,0:45:16.319

having kids not want your kids i mean

0:45:14.480,0:45:18.079

and i use that section for other things

0:45:16.319,0:45:20.480

as well like uh

0:45:18.079,0:45:21.760

i do not smoke i am not looking for a

0:45:20.480,0:45:24.800

smoker at all

0:45:21.760,0:45:25.839

um in that blurb if it says you smoke i

0:45:24.800,0:45:27.920

pass immediately

0:45:25.839,0:45:29.440

because that that just cuts down on time

0:45:27.920,0:45:30.720

if i look at that blurb and there's

0:45:29.440,0:45:32.240

nothing that shoots out of me

0:45:30.720,0:45:33.760

then i will actually go through your

0:45:32.240,0:45:35.760

entire profile and i'll read

0:45:33.760,0:45:36.960

everything about you yeah it's a useful

0:45:35.760,0:45:39.760

summary i understand

0:45:36.960,0:45:41.680

yeah and i use that some on my own

0:45:39.760,0:45:43.040

profile but at the very bottom i have a

0:45:41.680,0:45:46.800

list of things that

0:45:43.040,0:45:49.680

i'm not i'm not looking for as well

0:45:46.800,0:45:50.880

so like it says down there i do not want

0:45:49.680,0:45:52.880

to date a smoker

0:45:50.880,0:45:55.040

but it also says i am a child free

0:45:52.880,0:45:58.400

individual which means i do not want

0:45:55.040,0:46:02.000

kids biological adopted staff

0:45:58.400,0:46:04.560

step parent or foster so if you

0:46:02.000,0:46:05.599

have or want kids i'm probably not the

0:46:04.560,0:46:07.599

girl for you

0:46:05.599,0:46:08.880

that is in the very bottom of my profile

0:46:07.599,0:46:12.319

but as i said

0:46:08.880,0:46:15.680

my not wanting kids is on there twice

0:46:12.319,0:46:17.440

and yet i still gotten messages from

0:46:15.680,0:46:19.599

dads and i've gotten messages from

0:46:17.440,0:46:21.760

people who will actively want kids and i

0:46:19.599,0:46:21.760

just

0:46:22.480,0:46:25.680

but you see why that is that's people

0:46:24.000,0:46:26.079

looking for a challenge to change your

0:46:25.680,0:46:27.920

mind

0:46:26.079,0:46:29.280

i was just gonna say that people just go

0:46:27.920,0:46:31.839

out of their way for a challenge

0:46:29.280,0:46:33.200

sometimes that's uh i can i can change

0:46:31.839,0:46:35.760

your mind i've got a kid so it doesn't

0:46:33.200,0:46:37.359

mean you don't want to date me

0:46:35.760,0:46:39.760

and that's why i mean it's at the bottom

0:46:37.359,0:46:41.599

of the so i mean i heard nobody reads

0:46:39.760,0:46:44.480

profile i mean i

0:46:41.599,0:46:46.000

but especially nobody reads profiles so

0:46:44.480,0:46:49.040

i have on there

0:46:46.000,0:46:52.079

that's why i define child free no kids

0:46:49.040,0:46:56.700

biological adopted step

0:46:52.079,0:47:00.800

which means your kid or foster

0:46:56.700,0:47:03.119

[Laughter]

0:47:00.800,0:47:05.119

so and they might there might be some

0:47:03.119,0:47:07.680

guys who think they can

0:47:05.119,0:47:08.960

but they're not going to get to talk to

0:47:07.680,0:47:12.079

me because if you put

0:47:08.960,0:47:12.800

you have kids or you might want them i

0:47:12.079,0:47:14.160

will just click

0:47:12.800,0:47:16.000

past i'm not going to respond to your

0:47:14.160,0:47:18.960

input because

0:47:16.000,0:47:21.040

right in that blurb i've weeded you out

0:47:18.960,0:47:22.960

that basically it sounds awful but

0:47:21.040,0:47:24.559

like i don't want someone with his i

0:47:22.960,0:47:26.559

don't want someone who smokes i don't

0:47:24.559,0:47:27.119

want someone who does drugs etc and so

0:47:26.559,0:47:28.640

forth

0:47:27.119,0:47:30.319

i can just imagine somebody watching

0:47:28.640,0:47:32.000

this going but

0:47:30.319,0:47:34.079

you know i'm split up from my other half

0:47:32.000,0:47:39.839

and i've got a kid and i really like you

0:47:34.079,0:47:42.000

i would really like you to respond

0:47:39.839,0:47:43.520

what percentage of monarchy of of

0:47:42.000,0:47:46.720

matches or

0:47:43.520,0:47:49.839

profiles would you say

0:47:46.720,0:47:52.960

are males who

0:47:49.839,0:47:55.839

either are child free or would be

0:47:52.960,0:47:58.640

happy to sort of fall in line with with

0:47:55.839,0:47:58.640

that expectation

0:47:58.960,0:48:02.240

that i can't answer i would need actual

0:48:00.960,0:48:04.160

statistics for that

0:48:02.240,0:48:07.760

looking at the people who've sent me

0:48:04.160,0:48:10.079

messages like i spoke with

0:48:07.760,0:48:11.680

i think i spoke with like six or seven

0:48:10.079,0:48:12.880

guys this time around

0:48:11.680,0:48:13.920

right now i'm just speaking with two of

0:48:12.880,0:48:15.040

them because though they just kind of

0:48:13.920,0:48:17.520

fell off i just

0:48:15.040,0:48:18.800

whatever happened um there were a few

0:48:17.520,0:48:20.400

other guys that had

0:48:18.800,0:48:22.319

doesn't have doesn't want on their

0:48:20.400,0:48:25.599

profile um

0:48:22.319,0:48:26.559

but so they i passed on them for other

0:48:25.599,0:48:28.400

reasons so

0:48:26.559,0:48:31.280

like they were looking for short-term

0:48:28.400,0:48:31.280

dating and hookups

0:48:31.839,0:48:35.280

not looking for a hookup um so there

0:48:34.400,0:48:37.440

have been

0:48:35.280,0:48:38.800

some guys i ended up talking to and some

0:48:37.440,0:48:41.680

i did pass on

0:48:38.800,0:48:43.359

that did say they didn't want you um i

0:48:41.680,0:48:47.119

think i spoke with a couple that said

0:48:43.359,0:48:50.160

might want that that's a risk but

0:48:47.119,0:48:51.359

it's it's just it's up to you if you

0:48:50.160,0:48:52.800

want to take that risk because they

0:48:51.359,0:48:55.040

could go either way

0:48:52.800,0:48:56.720

um but i would be very upfront with you

0:48:55.040,0:48:58.960

i do not want kids so if

0:48:56.720,0:49:01.359

that person decides they do we will

0:48:58.960,0:49:04.720

break up that's what's going to happen

0:49:01.359,0:49:04.720

and i'll let you know that i'm not

0:49:05.040,0:49:09.040

i guess i'm a weird person if you read

0:49:06.880,0:49:12.079

my profile you are reading me

0:49:09.040,0:49:15.119

i do not lie on my profile at all um

0:49:12.079,0:49:17.839

so what i say on there on there is

0:49:15.119,0:49:19.920

that's who i am at this point in time

0:49:17.839,0:49:22.559

broadly speaking would you say it's

0:49:19.920,0:49:24.319

a very small number of profiles that you

0:49:22.559,0:49:27.520

have most likely yeah oh yeah

0:49:24.319,0:49:28.720

the majority of profiles are going to

0:49:27.520,0:49:30.880

say

0:49:28.720,0:49:32.000

well a lot of them just say doesn't have

0:49:30.880,0:49:35.280

kids

0:49:32.000,0:49:38.400

and that second part isn't filled out so

0:49:35.280,0:49:40.640

i just nice and ambiguous for you then

0:49:38.400,0:49:44.400

so if it doesn't have kids who might

0:49:40.640,0:49:45.920

want them tomorrow

0:49:44.400,0:49:49.280

yeah that one i was like okay i'm gonna

0:49:45.920,0:49:49.280

need you to fill up that second half

0:49:49.760,0:49:52.800

of what you want so i'm giving you a

0:49:51.440,0:49:56.319

chance but you need to answer that

0:49:52.800,0:49:56.319

second part of that question first

0:49:56.400,0:50:00.800

there's a lot of a lot of things i look

0:49:59.280,0:50:02.880

at when i look at a profile

0:50:00.800,0:50:05.119

that little blurb it helps just to weed

0:50:02.880,0:50:08.240

out things i absolutely don't want

0:50:05.119,0:50:10.240

like the smoking like the kids etc but i

0:50:08.240,0:50:11.520

also look at your full profile on

0:50:10.240,0:50:14.240

okcupid you can answer

0:50:11.520,0:50:16.000

questions and that determines your match

0:50:14.240,0:50:17.599

percentage with other people

0:50:16.000,0:50:19.440

i will look at those questions you

0:50:17.599,0:50:20.240

answered especially the ones we disagree

0:50:19.440,0:50:22.319

0:50:20.240,0:50:23.440

and and uh you know some of them like

0:50:22.319,0:50:24.960

okay i don't really care

0:50:23.440,0:50:27.119

but some of them okay that's the red

0:50:24.960,0:50:28.960

flag for me i i've got to take it

0:50:27.119,0:50:31.359

sure there's a lot when it comes to

0:50:28.960,0:50:33.280

looking at profiles for me

0:50:31.359,0:50:36.160

interesting yeah it's a big decision

0:50:33.280,0:50:39.200

though and dating is a minefield

0:50:36.160,0:50:41.680

whether you have um

0:50:39.200,0:50:42.800

a list of things that you need to

0:50:41.680,0:50:44.800

criteria

0:50:42.800,0:50:46.079

everyone's got criteria i mean if anyone

0:50:44.800,0:50:48.960

says they don't they're lying

0:50:46.079,0:50:50.800

so you're sure of your correct criteria

0:50:48.960,0:50:53.280

you know what you're looking for

0:50:50.800,0:50:55.760

nobody can can give you any hassle for

0:50:53.280,0:50:59.440

that and

0:50:55.760,0:51:02.000

it just um it still surprises me that

0:50:59.440,0:51:04.000

and the whole child free thing is still

0:51:02.000,0:51:07.119

a bit of a stigma like

0:51:04.000,0:51:08.640

surely there are a lot of people out

0:51:07.119,0:51:12.720

there who are in the same

0:51:08.640,0:51:12.720

kind of position as you look looking for

0:51:13.119,0:51:16.400

free well i don't want to say freedom

0:51:14.400,0:51:17.680

and like well freedom but from a

0:51:16.400,0:51:20.640

scottish person that's a different it

0:51:17.680,0:51:20.640

has different connotations

0:51:20.839,0:51:26.319

um but yeah

0:51:22.319,0:51:26.319

just there must be

0:51:27.280,0:51:30.960

a change in the way society thinks there

0:51:29.040,0:51:34.000

has to be because

0:51:30.960,0:51:35.440

um again i don't again

0:51:34.000,0:51:37.280

it's not for us to judge anyone's

0:51:35.440,0:51:40.720

choices or decisions but

0:51:37.280,0:51:41.839

there must be pros to to being giant

0:51:40.720,0:51:44.640

free

0:51:41.839,0:51:45.440

um as you said freedom is a big part of

0:51:44.640,0:51:48.240

0:51:45.440,0:51:50.800

um i can kind of do whatever i want

0:51:48.240,0:51:53.839

whenever without having to

0:51:50.800,0:51:55.760

plan around someone else i mean frankly

0:51:53.839,0:51:57.599

being single that's

0:51:55.760,0:51:59.760

that's true as well i don't plan around

0:51:57.599,0:52:02.240

a significant other or spouse

0:51:59.760,0:52:03.280

um the difference being if i get a

0:52:02.240,0:52:06.400

spouse full

0:52:03.280,0:52:07.760

but i i do never want kids uh but i like

0:52:06.400,0:52:10.640

having this

0:52:07.760,0:52:11.359

this freedom to do whatever i want

0:52:10.640,0:52:14.640

whenever

0:52:11.359,0:52:18.800

within reason whenever i want um

0:52:14.640,0:52:22.880

thanks coronavirus yeah

0:52:18.800,0:52:22.880

i have so many examples um

0:52:23.280,0:52:27.040

just because i'm a big nerd i'm in a lot

0:52:25.440,0:52:30.240

of different fandoms

0:52:27.040,0:52:32.319

uh there's a lot of conventions i

0:52:30.240,0:52:34.720

i like to go to automatic conventions my

0:52:32.319,0:52:36.640

little pony convention story convention

0:52:34.720,0:52:38.640

i attended a my little pony convention

0:52:36.640,0:52:41.920

online last week

0:52:38.640,0:52:44.880

um with

0:52:41.920,0:52:46.640

it's harder to do that when you have you

0:52:44.880,0:52:47.839

know a spouse and or kid

0:52:46.640,0:52:50.960

i guess unless your spouse doesn't do it

0:52:47.839,0:52:53.200

too um it's just more of a it's gonna be

0:52:50.960,0:52:56.160

more expensive for them sure

0:52:53.200,0:52:56.640

um so instead of paying for you know a

0:52:56.160,0:52:58.800

bunch of

0:52:56.640,0:53:00.960

other like badges and what you know so

0:52:58.800,0:53:01.839

my kids can get in i can buy random crap

0:53:00.960,0:53:05.040

that i don't need

0:53:01.839,0:53:06.160

i i want anyway all over my house so i'm

0:53:05.040,0:53:09.920

very very good at that

0:53:06.160,0:53:12.480

uh but um i like the fact that i

0:53:09.920,0:53:13.119

can just i have the freedom to do

0:53:12.480,0:53:16.000

whatever

0:53:13.119,0:53:17.599

you know i i went to japan last year

0:53:16.000,0:53:20.559

with four guy friends

0:53:17.599,0:53:22.559

on a whim we found round-trip tickets

0:53:20.559,0:53:24.800

for 660. we're like

0:53:22.559,0:53:26.559

yeah we're gonna buy these tickets

0:53:24.800,0:53:29.760

they're super super cheap

0:53:26.559,0:53:32.240

that's not something i could do if i had

0:53:29.760,0:53:33.839

kids um maybe with a spout maybe

0:53:32.240,0:53:35.280

yourself and go with me but with kids

0:53:33.839,0:53:38.319

it'd be a lot difficult

0:53:35.280,0:53:40.000

and it would be very awkward me being

0:53:38.319,0:53:43.680

the only one with kids and then four

0:53:40.000,0:53:46.400

dudes that are single

0:53:43.680,0:53:47.760

a bit difficult but i like the fact that

0:53:46.400,0:53:49.359

i could just pick up and travel we were

0:53:47.760,0:53:52.079

supposed to go to japan this year

0:53:49.359,0:53:53.760

uh and then government so um thankfully

0:53:52.079,0:53:55.280

we got our money back

0:53:53.760,0:53:57.040

but we're planning on going next year

0:53:55.280,0:53:59.280

because we can't

0:53:57.040,0:54:00.880

because we have the money because we

0:53:59.280,0:54:02.880

could we have the

0:54:00.880,0:54:04.640

vacation time at work we can take that

0:54:02.880,0:54:07.520

off um

0:54:04.640,0:54:09.200

i even not just travel just being here

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