Jessica tells her story of grief, support and how she copes following the loss of one of her twins babies. She hopes to raise awareness to help others deal with similar situations and offers hope for the future. This connection was made on Reddit.
she was a twin her sister passed away
in the hospital from an infection it's
one of those things where we're actually
engaged in litigation with the hospital
it was pretty blatant negligence like i
just trying to exist and survive
hello welcome to life it is just me the
where we talk about the things that
we're all going through we'll
have to deal with in life my name's paul
i'm joined today by ryan and
jessica hi guys hi how are you doing
really really good ryan how are you i'm
all right what about you paul
i'm good i know well that's what happens
and you always do the intro so
what's to be expected and that's right
we are here to talk about having kids
children this is our focus for our our
season just now our first season yes
we don't offer any judgment we're just
bring you some ideas and some stories
and some experiences from people
all around the world jessica that is why
you are here tell us a bit about
um i'm an american from the middle of
america and like i said earlier let me
just apologize on behalf of
at least half of my country um
i'm i've been married for nine years
awesome oh congratulations yeah thank
um all i want well thank you for joining
it's a short list i'm glad you mentioned
i just i was going to mention it you
know in case someone's listening to this
2027 or something right now literally we
the results of some key states for the
2020 presidential election
you mentioned the electricity in your
yes we just had a really terrible ice
so um everything was frozen and the
knocked down a lot of lines and half the
um this was last tuesday i haven't had
power at my house since last tuesday so
living in a one-bedroom condo that some
friends of ours owns we're very very
but i've also means i've been
co-sleeping with a four-year-old
and do not recommend zero out of ten
i've been i've been kicked i have been
um i don't know how people i don't know
yes that's where that's where i'm at i
guess that sets the scene quite nicely
you've told us about who you are and
certainly you you have a kid
you've got a four-year-old um and
tell us then about about your life
and you're how old is your is your child
she's four she's four now um
so i had her in 2016 when the world was
um that's a reference to coronavirus i
believe or could be the election i don't
i don't know it's an election it's an
yeah when i still had hope uh
she um she's wonderful um
most days most of the time
uh no it's great um she was
you know as we've talked about you know
mentioned before she was a twin
um her sister passed away
in the hospital from an infection um
the day after she was born so um
and actually that is you know we're it's
one of those things where we're actually
engaged in litigation with the hospital
it it was negligence i mean it was
you know so parenthood for me has been a
really you know we thought we were uh
and then it was surprised too
and then we were like okay we're done
grief and joy and you know the tough
times that you go through
you know as a new parent just learning
navigate that life because it's very
different from your life before
that's something that's come across and
a lot of the conversations that that
you've spoken on previous episodes about
your own life situation and having two
at my current where i am just now 20
um don't have kids yet sort of in that
i sort of thing um which is why it's
been so immensely helpful to to
get some of these some of these ideas we
we did say before that we would delve
some possibly um uncomfortable places
for you listening possibly as well and
jessica i thought we could maybe start
by talking as much as as much as you
you're able and you want to about
what it's like what it was like if any
we're going to have twins then having
birth giving birth to twins and
and then eventually losing one
it happened really quickly like i was so
i'm an attorney and i was
um we my husband and i kind of knew that
we wanted to have kids i think
but i also like you know wanted that
license to practice law like in my hand
one of these you know i didn't want to
be studying for a bar exam
you know when i was pregnant and so
but after after that you know i got i
got pregnant really quickly and
um i was very surprising and
i just remember i had i had some issues
um my doctor had me go in for a very
which is funny because it was on our
anniversary it was on november 6th
and uh i remember thinking like all
right we're going to go out for dinner
and i'm either going to be really
um or i'm gonna be sad and i'm gonna
drink but either way there's something
and uh so we're sitting in the room and
you know the girl goes um listen if
there's something to see i'll show you
okay and and so she's looking around
how long have you been married you know
is this your first pregnancy
and all of a sudden she just stops and
she goes i'll be right back and she
and i looked at my husband like this is
you know there's not i'm i'm just like
prepping myself and she comes back in
she turns the screen and she goes okay
um we found a heartbeat we actually
and i'm thinking mine and the babies
that equals two she turns the screen and
and i looked at my husband and then i
looked at the bathroom door
thinking somebody was going to pop out
and just yell you've been pumped
you know i was i the only thing i could
say for like the next 10 to 15 minutes
was what was happening literally those
words that could form in my mouth and
um i don't know if you're going to have
to believe that or whatever but it is
i assume what's happening like how not
i'm also loving the fact that ryan's on
so we could do this for a few times it
would take him just a few seconds to
it was just it was it was crazy
so um yeah and it's you know it's
um you know i don't know if i don't know
you know ryan is you have kids i don't
know if you your wife had any experience
with this but you know loss is very
um for women it's not you know it's
it's not rare it happens a lot
and so i think you know especially in
like multiple pregnancies and i think i
something to go wrong you know so
every time i went to the doctor and
everything was fine it just became more
and more real of like this is gonna be
and um you know so it's exciting i
you know un um uneventful pregnancy i
so i um i went to the hospital as
so um i my blood my blood pressure when
i went to the hospital was
i basically should have like stroked out
i don't know we don't really need to go
into like you know the details of like
they got there and no please dude head
to somewhere ended up having a c-section
um so my my girls went to the nicu
um i was recovering so my husband who is
right you want to say hi chris hi hi
they say hi um he went up to the nicu
with them and i stayed down in the um
in the hospital room and what's the next
view sorry i'm not familiar with that
the neonatal intensive care unit okay
thank you so um yep so the the nicu and
um they just immediately started to have
you know have to put um lena that was my
nora is my living daughter they had to
put lena on a cpap and things just kind
of started going downhill
and we only found out later that they
like suspected that she had an infection
but they didn't give her antibiotics
we um yeah so that look you know that
um it's it's you don't expect that to
because you go to hospitals where you
doctors and you think people stay on top
who's never been in that position you
know new parents my husband too we
didn't know the questions to ask
you know we didn't know um
we didn't know what was going on we
didn't understand um a lot of things so
we only got to you know hold her once i
and we were quiet we did request an
she was buried two days later and i was
still in the hospital i didn't
um we didn't go to her funeral it was
frankly it was just too it would have
it's it's a very intense you know
you join you know two clubs that you
you know and it's it's weird like i
thought i was gonna be a twin mom
and then i was you know a grieving mom
it was it was i would i really wouldn't
it was it was bad yeah i mean i've
thank you so much for appreciating so
for us my our pregnancy was nora was in
oh yeah sorry i'm on the delay anna you
could i'm just interrupting everybody
yeah you've got quite you've got quite a
big delay no no ryan go go ahead
afterwards no i was just gonna say just
when we were having a baby um the exact
trusting the hospital we didn't know
what to expect and we just thought
everything was going properly and
my son and wife both got an infection
but because she'd been in labor for 72
um and they hadn't tried to progress it
if they just um administered oxytocin if
that if we just requested that they give
her oxytocin to move her on
she would have been fine but because
they didn't bother they just
they prolonged the whole thing and they
um with an infection my wife almost bled
out i thought we were gonna lose her at
and and you just assume that it's just
complications of pregnancy but as
for looking back and having had a second
child it was more than likely
negligence and just we didn't know any
it's so so interesting for me having not
yet possibly ever i don't know to
to hear similar stories in some ways and
and i wanted to ask you jessica having
spoken what you've just spoken about
what when you when you think back to
just gone through what you've gone
through you've given birth to
nora i think you said you said her name
was is that her name is that right
and you've you've lost lena
how does that feel to have those two
we um nora stayed in the nicu
for three weeks almost three weeks after
and we would we would go up and visit
but they and they moved her room but it
was right next door to the room that
um and like you have these moments
of just sheer joy because you've still
and you still look at them and see
and you see your spouse and you know
someone once explained to me that like
having another heart that is just
walking around outside of you
and that really is you know what it is
that love is just so unconditional and
so strong but then there would be these
moments of just intense waves of grief
you know like it was just it was just
nora shared a room with somebody in the
nicu and that baby's mother was there
probably eight hours a day and i was
just remembering to breathe and get out
get dressed and go up there and if i
hours you know i had to go home and it
i didn't feel like a good parent but i
it was but that time also wasn't a blur
like i really do remember
um just trying to exist and survive
and it was very conflicting very very
it's interesting that you mentioned
as you put it to existence of fat as and
survive at the same time while
looking after the newborn child your
everywhere at once yeah it's
um you know as as ryan knows like
after yeah after mentally preparing
so difficult um you know we
instead of just one of us getting up in
the middle of the night we both got up
and we were each other's support um
you know and it was just it was
i would say it was like it was just a
quiet time you know there was a lot of
reflection and there was a lot of
thinking about what we had been through
and um you know trying to
trying to be good parents to um
to a baby that really that needed us and
um someone once said to me like i i
admire your strength and like
and i just like you know my mom my mom
said to me when she was like you know
i'm just so amazed that you didn't give
what choice did i have you know like
it's not a choice like who what was i
drop her off at my mom's house and my
mom was like yeah you could have
you know other people out there would
um so yeah it's hard to reconcile how
you're not a superhero really
yeah hundred percent was just thinking
um thank you after what what you've just
um i i don't mean to come across as in
insensitive but it's something that for
has crossed my mind and i thought i
would ask it so i wonder if
having gone through what you've gone
through does does nora does your
your living child if that's the right
set servers as a constant reminder of
what you've been through or is that
something that you're able to
not move on from but sort of separate i
um so it's a very good question actually
so oddly enough my brother
um had a loss his wife went into early
labor and he lost a daughter
which is you know i um he's he's
also very religious so like he dealt
grief in a much different way than i did
um but you know when the the couple
conversations that we had about it
you know he said um you know he said
like you you have a constant reminder
and you will always have a constant
um and it's it to some extent it is true
i mean birth things are hard milestones
you know um for a long time when i would
get nora dressed to leave the house
and put her in a carrier um
i could think of nothing but
how i would have juggled two carriers
or um when i drew a bath it would be
um i would see an empty spot in the tub
you know like there's a there's always
an empty chair at my table
um but nora brings me a lot of joy
you know she's a wonderful wonderful
child and i'm like really proud to be
so it's it's just you know it's
everything the obvious one for me to ask
you about was um birthdays um
just the thought of that constant
reminder on a birthday that is it's the
of your loss that's the same that you're
um and i'm not sure i would be able to
um if i'm honest and i think that you're
for the mindset that you're putting up
well i will say that um the girls were
and lena actually passed on the 11th um
so i and i one of my you know
i just thought thank god it's it's not
because you know but um we've we've kind
it's almost too depressing to go to the
cemetery on the 10th so we always
go on the 11th and we call it lena day
we try to do something that
you know that we usually take the day
off and try and find an activity that's
you know comforting or reflecting or
you know something like that so it's um
you know i know a lot of people i know
some people who have had losses too
that you know they always have a cake at
the at the birthday party actually no
we know one couple who um that we met
lost support group who also had a twin
um pass in a much different way you know
and they would do stuff like
um you know have have cakes from at the
party and do things like that and i just
um nora knows about her sister she knows
she's missing her sister she knows that
and i think that that's enough to put on
i've kind of let her have you know her
her day that's a very an interesting
and interesting way of of looking at it
to almost separate them into
two days it seems almost seems
for someone who's just really getting to
know you and your story that
almost makes me feel a bit warmer inside
yeah i mean i don't i don't want to like
nora's she's always going to kind of
have that hanging over her and it's not
subconsciously thinking about both of my
girls on their birthday before
i'm not you know wishing lena happy
you know i need to i mean there's not a
answer you know there's just there's not
there's not a right thing to do and
we've just done the best we can
it sounds like of course and i was i was
going to save this for late
it does it does it definitely does i was
going to save this for later but
just because you brought it up just now
nora being aware of and knowing at four
she she has a sister and how did you
arrive at the decision to to tailor was
an easy decision was that something that
you and your husband discuss
to did you have similarly different
we weren't going to pretend that lena
and we weren't going to hide it from
like we both knew that um and and you
know and i'll say the other thing is
and i don't know you know i don't know
that you guys would know this but
couples that lose children um you know
have an eight like almost
something like an 80 chance of
getting divorced um just because
you know people grieve in such different
a um distinctively difficult
type of loss you know it just disrupts
the natural cycle of life you know um
so you know we also made a promise to
each other that if we were thinking
or if we were having you know one of
those days and said what's wrong
instead of nothing like we wouldn't say
you know we wouldn't just push it under
the rug and pretend that things were
fine because things are not fine
when that happens to you you know so
um so very early on we would take note
of the cemetery when we would go visit
and we would try to explain things and
there were some really tough
um you know she would ask if lena was
why there was a rock on top of her and
you know how is she gonna get out if
there's a rock on top of her
and that was a lot of you know she's
she's slowly come to understand that
like no people don't come back
and lena's not just sleeping um but that
we can love her from here
and um you know we in judaism we take
rocks out to uh the cemetery
so whenever we go somewhere we'll look
to lena or nora will come home with
something from school like they painted
and she said i made this for lena you
no we're very much open about it okay
i fascinate against it ryan i know
you're on ever so slight delay so i want
a little bit of chance to to react
before um yeah loads to say
um i've always got less to say that's my
maybe the internet connection it's good
it's making me listen instead of talking
i've done an amazing job honestly i've
got two i've got two kids
and i don't know how i would i it
doesn't even be a thinking of
like that kind of loss um we have had
that loss in the family uh
my mom i was had a very late pregnancy
and she had complications and ended up
um the difficulty for her was she never
a birth certificate or anything because
they deemed that she hadn't taken a
so therefore she never existed and my
mum couldn't cope with that
in the slightest so i've seen it from
outside but not experienced
just seeing how strong you have been as
listening to your your daughter um
trying to reconcile that whole thing is
it's really empowering it's really kind
of wonderful to be honest
and just how great you've handled it and
and just to add as well my own
i had an aunt i remember probably in my
young teenager my aunt went through a
similar thing to what you just said ryan
going back to what you said earlier
jessica about how how common it actually
perhaps you listening as well maybe can
relate you may be yourself or know
it does seem to be something that so
many people go through so it's great
to have the conversation as well
let's take a short break if you don't
mind just for a minute or two um
no perfect you recording mine
i am yes thank you and it's nice to be
with you this time instead of like
crazy satellite delay definitely yes i
know it truly is like a zoom call that
way it was really hard for me because i
was like i can't interrupt
no no no no i was saying that during the
break as well jessica was like ryan
often has so much to say it's great to
i was so cautious of of seeing too much
we're good we have a whole another
the tone of this segment is going to be
a lot different just because i can
i think i'll just mute myself i'll just
go let you guys just just be a two-man
all right uh so jessica we've spoken a
your journey up to this point and you've
such amazing insight into how you've
with unthinkable circumstances we
our idea for this podcast came about to
the the thoughts and the feelings the
emotions that go along with having kids
and we met online through reddit
where you were talking about potentially
another child so i want to sort of delve
firstly do you feel that you
needs or need i guess four years
to between your loss and your first
birth to get this point or was that
would happen for a different reason or
yeah i mean short answer yes um
um the girls were born and i lost lena
um i did get pregnant again and um i
here's the interesting thing my
was really um i can fix this
right like i can fix this if i can just
i was supposed to have two i need two
like that's what's wrong um you know and
i just think there was a lot of things
going on there i don't think my body was
ready to be pregnant again
i it had been through trauma you know
after that i was just like you know i
need a break i need to heal
i need to raise my daughter and then
it took three and a half four years to
we've kind of said to each other like
i think this is you know this feels
so did that time arrive at the same time
for both of you or do you feel one of
you was ready before the other
on pretty similar timelines there was
big period in there where we said
that we were done just because
i didn't think that i could
i didn't think that i had the mental
to go through all of that again um
that's understandable though yeah right
because it's a lot even when nothing bad
you know it's it's just it's a lot of
and it's stress on you and stress on
your body and on your family
it was always a fight i think because
um the thought of nora being alone when
she was never supposed to be alone
you know was really weighing on me
but then i would think but that's not a
you know or it would be the you know i
need another one because i was supposed
that's not a reason to have a kid um
so i think it kind of it was an
um feeling like feeling out what the
until i came up with the right reasons
um i think i i think i kind of realized
i have love in my heart for another
child that i haven't met yet
you know like um i'm always like having
another child doesn't mean i'm gonna
and it doesn't mean i've moved on like
it doesn't have to mean that
you know um but just that
if i have another child i want that
and not because i'm missing something
yeah i think um that would have been
something that would wear my mind
and obviously you your mindset seems way
more positive than mine would be in the
um but i would always be second guessing
whether or not i was trying to replace
like a space or that that
person or um for that reason
and i i assume you've been through that
again i think you're a bit of a
superhero because i don't know if i
through the same thought process well
you already have because you know that's
those are the same you know it's the
same thought process i have i had and
like part of the reason that we waited
we didn't want to bring a child into the
world as a replacement for someone else
yeah you know because that's not fair to
them yeah it's understandable
but some people might not be might not
have been as self-aware and have
made that same choice they might have
just gone straight into it without a lot
and i think that again just
shows the power of the strength in you
i mean four years is arguably not a long
a gap between like two children for
and some people wait a lot longer before
so they chose i think your resolve and
your strength as well as a family that
after such what you could call a short
that you're ready to to be in that
it just kind of you're an impressive
person that's that's my point of view
thank you i want to take you back to
that you said just a moment ago jessica
that stuck with me so much that i've
written it down so i can read out what i
um and it almost comes back to the crux
why we want to do this podcast or
why i want to do this season and you
i think word for word space in your
heart space in my heart um
for another child is what you said and i
think that struck me so much because
i'm in the place right now as i said
earlier not that far off 30
know what i want to do i don't know
i mentioned to you before um i teach i
teach in secondary school and
that takes up a huge amount of my life
in a good way you know what i have so
much passion for what i do and
i work with children young people five
and i don't know i'm conflicted
i feel like i do have the space and then
i feel like i don't have the space and
i just kind of want to delve into to
how you arrived at that that's um
you know but here's the thing is that
no really i mean it it um they say that
you know like women become mothers like
as soon as they become pregnant like it
and fathers become fathers when they see
that kid for the first time and it
um and my husband is one of these guys
just he's like a deer in the headlights
it takes him so long to like get used to
an idea we just bought a new car and he
i mean he wouldn't almost talk to me for
like terrified at the amount of money
that we just spent you know
and like now he loves it he just zoom
zooms around town and like you know but
it took him a while and um
so you know he was when he found out
we're having twins and everything i mean
i just kept i mean i'd look at him all
the time and be like is this okay
like what was he gonna do about it yeah
you know too late now but um you know
you know is this is this okay um
but you know like may 10 2016
like his whole world changed and whether
he wasn't sure that there was room
or you know it his heart was made
he had no choice you just fall in love
um i'm not gonna lie you know you give
up certain things when you become a
um you give up certain freedoms um my
favorite is people who have
you know pets and dogs oh this is my
furry baby you know my furry animal is
no say thank you thank you i've got cats
it's not the same thing i can put some
and not see that for a couple of days
you know i can't do that with my kids it
right legal when it's legal for me to
and just like yeah exactly then let's
talk you know it's just um
so yeah like things are things are more
difficult and that was definitely
something that we thought about
um you know america is probably
probably one of the worst countries that
in you know um parental leave is a joke
you know um daycare is ridiculously
because there's no parental leave um it
um but it's worth it we're
a little bit better off over here
parental leave but um we get it as well
like we i could take time off i could
i could share it i did for my from my
um i shared it with my wife um she had
already said that she was going back to
work and she was only going to take half
the time period so i stayed over the
other half of the time period with
my son and then i was amazing being just
i didn't go back to work i became the
became the main caregiver in the house
oh my husband would love it he says
um what i would want to say to
to paul is um you've got space in your
heart but maybe not space in
your um your professional life yet
you've not made that headspace you've um
you've clearly obviously thinking about
it so the space is in your heart but i
would say that it's probably
the logistic stuff that's not falling in
um i will say this so when it happens
you have no choice you just get ready
yeah i've been i've been told i've seen
jessica i delving really deep here
and a really philosophical question for
your husband yourself know
now or around about now that yeah
this is what we want to do are we pretty
sure this is what we want to do
you want an honest answer yeah go on
yeah you're not sure is that the
honestly no well no well that's
i mean that's that's a good point like
you're never really sure and that's
really what it comes down to
is um you know you can do all the
all the bucket you know bucket list
travel you can do all of that and still
and it's kind of a um get ready to bleep
get off the pot situation like you
either do it or you don't
you know um because i think if you think
you won't do it you know now now all i'm
thinking about is the movie clerks
that's where you've through my headspace
yeah it's just gone over my head
yeah um but also like some truth here is
that my husband is seven years older
and um as my doctor so lovingly
reminded me i am not 21 anymore thanks
um yes i really appreciated that
and so it kind of became one of those
if we're gonna do it let's just do it
because we're not getting any younger
and um i mean if we're you know like
why not so so yeah i mean it's a little
um just reality kind of sets in
because i probably you know you say i'm
a superhero but like honestly i probably
could have waited 10 years
and still like been wondering
yeah like i'm always gonna wonder if i'm
it's that doesn't part of it just
um you just have to decide i mean
there's a moment there's there's there
after you take the test it comes back
positive that i was just like what
you know and there are still some times
when nora is having a tantrum
just is being a monster and i'm like
why do i want to do this again
it's interesting you say you shouldn't
because now i'm sort of wondering
whether making a podcast about it was
the best idea or not but anyway too late
but it's not it's not too late to just
throw caution into the wind i mean
you know how it works you just gotta do
how does that work jessica oh to me
get my bleeper button where did i put it
let's talk about all the other things
that americans are bad about teaching
does does not know i don't think that's
yeah that's a good point that's a good
point does nora know that this is
on your mind or is that a conversation
that that's not come up yet or is it
it it will she doesn't know
um that this is kind of what we want now
um nobody knows except for you guys
wow and the internet let's not let's not
really early oh it's fine i mean
you know the thing is is that um we
we don't want to get our hopes up we
don't want to get anybody else's hopes
um you know nor like some of the things
um i just don't wanna i don't wanna
you know so i think even if even if we
um i probably won't tell her for a while
good about things you know um
but uh she'll be so excited
she is a like she loves to baby things
she pretends to do all the mommy stuff
we've got a boy and a girl and they're
completely different and he could not
animals and people off up there he's
can i play pokemon just just like
come on you're learning too many of my
we like dressed nora in like gender
neutral clothes and gave her like toy
and like she was just like princesses
like how did i make that we did not push
any gender roles on either of our kids
and other people we did get a bit
outside influence on that where it's
like grandparents would be like
you have to wear this yes no you're not
allowed to wear a dress jackson
yeah you're not allowed um
let them wear two two whatever yes as
um so we have never ever pushed any
gender roles on any of our kids but they
quite happily into the boy who plays
and the girl who's got the princesses in
the castle and we have not pushed that
it's an interesting study into nature
yeah yeah definitely an interesting
i thought we were doing a good job of
it's just happening why do i feel a good
idea for a podcast season coming on let
i mean it's so true it's so true i mean
stuff like boys can't have long hair and
girls can have short hair boys and she
has a good friend at school
who like dressed up as elsa for
halloween a little boy like dressed up
and i just love that i have friends who
definitely yeah like they're so
supportive of like their kids no matter
their age they're just like this is who
you know yeah jessica do you
do you have any fears going forward um
about possibly having another child
you just put my mind at ease and now
here's the thing here's here's what
really kind of put me at the um
at the starting line of number three
i guess technically is um
all the time with nora that i think
why did i do this you know i don't have
i mean i don't have the freedom that i
life is more expensive it's harder
but it's fuller and i love
her so much and she's just such a joy
wonderful human being and i just get so
excited about the prospect of like
watching her grow and nurturing whoever
it is that she's going to be and i
and i just i think about um
you know that i could do that again and
and i'm going to have those regrets
i'm going to have tantrums in the middle
yeah where i'm just like i could have
had i could have had a different life
um i'll never that's the thing
but i'll never regret doing it
you know like i'll never regret that
child like i there's always going to be
regrets but i would regret it more if i
you know i would always look back and i
think i think i would be a little
bit more empty and i think that's where
um yeah i'm gonna i'm gonna have regrets
yeah it's gonna happen um but i'd have
yeah so i've kept the scales in this in
yeah yeah simple as that really yeah
that that makes sense in my head i can
see the scales that you know
that yeah that works for me it does
listed the pros and cons quite clearly
there and yeah yes yeah and
the thing is that's very personal to you
because other people even listening to
or in different stages of their lives
will have a different set of priorities
and a different scale to to use and
different things on each side you've
made that really quite easy
for people to see where your heads at
and what and what you're thinking
which is perfect for what we're trying
yes you just mentioned earlier jessica
trying to rebalance and encompass
having another child as a result of
do you worry that that is
happening again or do you feel that
that's another double-edged sword right
i don't know that i would want another
um so that's always kind of there in the
but this idea of fixing something
that can't be fixed um that's not there
okay and you you can't really do with
you might have had the same thought
process four years later if you hadn't
the the trauma for four years ago
you might still you might still be here
going do you know what i'm ready now i'm
in a space where i've got
more to give for more love to give and
there's still more space in my heart the
you know what i do think about sometimes
you know what i do think about sometimes
about having another one is um
i think of things i love to travel and i
think of things in terms of plane
and um i i realize now that
i'll have to get more than one like
bench you know like we'll have to be
have to send one parent here and one
yeah yeah we've done that traveling with
the five of us in this family and um
yeah that's a pain in the butt yeah
sorry unless you're international and
you can get the whole middle row
well this is true we have done that once
it's still a pain in the back
a little girl on the plane who just
wanted to speak to her mum but my mom
just had her headphones and watching tv
so she was speaking to her mom but the
rest of us were the ones that were
i was just like will you please just
answer your daughter she just wants some
like you could just hear the whole plane
i could picture her right now i better
be on that flight as well i'm sure
she was just she was watching tonight on
tv and she's like hey mommy emo
she was fairy glaswegian which might not
mean anything to you jessica but
i'm sure that's pitchers um she had a
thick accent and it every two seconds it
hey mommy and we were just like
please we answered so she can stop
um that's hilarious so the plane travel
doesn't change yes again i'm sorry
you know that's good to know i guess you
and you know you never you never judge
well is it hard not to take that back
i i no longer like see like screaming
and target and go like why can't you
just control your kid because like
i feel for you you know like more
like i know i've been there i have
said to other mothers but like you got
and you'd be amazed that like their
whole demeanor changes because
when you're a mom and you know when
you're a parent and you're standing
there and your kid is like
misbehaving in public you're just like
everybody's judging me and i'm drowning
in an ocean of you know tantrum
and yeah when somebody just looks at you
i've been there you i i know and you got
it just changes just scooped up a child
and walked them outside and just been
have you seen have you seen all the
memes of like why my toddler's crying or
i haven't been sure i need to know oh
you need to google these it's like um
someone would like took a picture of
their kid having a tantrum
like my my kid's having a tantrum
because i won't let him swim
it's six degrees out and he can't swim
yeah you're a terrible parent for
and it's like that pretty much explains
toddlerhood right there it
really does yeah yeah we just you know i
just before we came on to this call and
singing in the rain the movie with kids
now um as most people like yeah an
eight-year-old down there six-year-old
not gonna want to watch singing in the
rain but it's one of my favorite movies
i love that movie no we have to do this
um i had to stop it at times to explain
but i i feel like i had a magical moment
with the kids because they're all
and singing in the rain and good morning
we've done it i've done it i went
was it was it good morning or make them
laugh because make them laugh is
well i warned him before we started um i
kind of was like he's the
the kind of dashing hero and
his love interest and the guy on the end
he's hilarious so you have to keep an
and the make them laugh scene is
obviously brilliant and they were like
why is he being silly daddy because
i'm always like stopping silly
has he been so silly that is he's
and then once he got used to the fact
that he was okay for it would be silly
in this movie they were they were just
laughing so much it was great oh that's
i i had a magical moment so i thought
i'd share that with you because
yeah well we're talking about the
tantrums i wanted to balance
something just the scales have tipped
again yeah we've had them
and those moments are the moments you
kind of live for and i think
um again i keep calling you a superhero
all of that come out the other side and
i don't know um battle scarred
ready to take on a new challenge would
yeah and i think the positive um
you know now the positive moments
and it's it's worth it you know yeah it
i think i don't know call me in a couple
and see you know don't don't don't tell
us that because we will do it
we will we'll keep you i mean
we said this before it's going to happen
that it's got to it's going to i'm going
to have to follow where everybody from
season one because i know
i know um such an isn't it it's been a
really good kind of interesting thing i
the topics we've got on the list are
going to be quite as insightful as
yeah some of these conversations i'm not
well if we have guests that are even
half as good as jessica's been
yeah it's been it's been really um kind
of i want to thank you for being such a
make pretty i think you'll have put
things in a perspective for more than
well i'm one and i'm sure there are two
even if no one else is even less than
there you go two people you've already
already done well well i'll just leave
infant loss is probably one of the
hardest things that people
can go through because you know you
expect to lose grandparents or parents
you know you never expect to lose your
if it does happen to somebody like i
put some resources in there because it's
