Life: Is It Just Me?

By Paul Hope & Ryan RocksSociety & Culture Health & Fitness Mental Health Education Self-Improvement Personal Journals

Life: Is It Just Me? episodes

March 23, 2021 My Abortion Journey
Olivia talks about her abortion experience in the US.
1 hr 37 min
March 08, 2021 My Pregnancy Journey
Claire talks about her journey from conception through to (almost) birth.
1 hr 26 min
February 16, 2021 I Regret Having Children
AC explains why he regrets having kids and the impact it has on his partner and children. This connection was made on Reddit.
1 hr 16 min
February 09, 2021 Letrozole Conception - Birth & Death
Part 2 - Therese has difficulty conceiving and turned to IVF to help. Her heart-wrenching pregnancy journey includes her taking a triple dose of letrozole without anyone knowing, her suffering from pre-eclampsia and her baby being born with Edwards' Syndrome (Trisomy 18). She talks about birth, death and her journey of recovery.
Transcript:----more----
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the doctor that was with
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us when i delivered mira she told me
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that
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i am now going to be unprofessional and
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what she told me there it helped me to
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survive
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[Applause]
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[Music]
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welcome back then this is part two where
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we are
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speaking to teresa so a guest from
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sweden life is it just me it's a podcast
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where we talk about
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the big talking points in life do not
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whatever you do
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listen to this episode if you have not
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yet checked out part one because there
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is
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a whole backstory which you've got to
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hear first one is paul i'm joined by
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ryan as always hello ryan hi paul how
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are we doing today
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really really good and great to have you
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here and today is hello
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hello welcome back today yes
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you are telling us about your incredibly
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detailed and
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poignant and emotional story
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all about your journey of
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trying to conceive i guess and your
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journey between ibm
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took us on a rollercoaster last time wow
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and we're back for
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um i i had all the
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the emotions all of them every single
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one ticked them off like a bingo card
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emotional bingo we have to we're going
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to have to release that now it's a board
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game
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is it just me emotional that is that's a
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really good who can we team up with
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hasbro or someone like that
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hasbro has to say that mattel maybe one
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of the big ones to be honest i don't
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really care anybody will do
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take my rights take my money okay
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let's go back to business today you were
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telling us all about
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your time in hospital catches up and
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continue from where you got to please as
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best you can
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yeah well when we ended the last time
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i have just told you about
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having giving birth to my daughter and
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well my husband joaquim just told me it
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was a girl because we didn't know until
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the birth so now we were asked
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from my midwife emma uh if we had a name
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for her
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and yeah
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i was thinking about the name i have
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been carrying for
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many years and did i want to give that
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name to
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this beautiful girl or should i keep it
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and save it for
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for hopefully having another guy another
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girl
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and then i was no during the pre
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pregnancy i have been thinking about
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this baby as
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mira so i turned to my husband and i
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asked
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is it mira and he looked at me and said
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yes it is mira so
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that's when i turned back to emma and
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said
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this is mira and from there
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she got her name and
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after this we were offered
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to have a photograph come to take
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photographs
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of us and they did that for free
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because of everything and then they
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asked us if we would like to have a
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priest coming
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to have a baptized
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um and we said thank you to both
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uh of those um so the photograph came
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first
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and took some really beautiful pictures
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my favorite is one when i am talking to
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meera
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and i'm looking down at her and
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the picture captures a moment where mira
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is looking up at me
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and me down the tar this is
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my most precious picture i have of us
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and we also have this beautiful picture
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when
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joaquim is kind of ticking
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her hand to see if he can open her hand
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up
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and she does open her fingers and then
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she closes them
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on her on his fingertip this is also a
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really beautiful picture
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we have yeah it sounds beautiful it does
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yeah
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where did the choice of name mira come
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from
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i had a dream where me and my husband
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and his sister were going in the city
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for shop and shopping and we had a
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stroller
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and in this stroller we had this baby
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girl named mira
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and so i carried this name for
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maybe 10 years hoping to have a baby
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girl
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name his name
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and i finally had her get it
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how did you feel we spoke last time
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about
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the depths you went to in the journey
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and then of course being told
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not long before you were to give birth
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your baby was likely not going to
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have a long life expectancy in that
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moment with all that information in your
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head
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you still had mira to hold and to have
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pictures
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can you put that into words
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at first it was um horrible
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because i was holding my baby that was
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going to die
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but also when i calmed
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down and when i learned that she
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was still alive after birth i was so
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filled with love to this tiny tiny
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person
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lying there because during the pregnancy
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she had shown me her quirks she had a
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personality
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so to having this baby with this
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personality on my chest and bonding the
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guitar
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it was amazing uh
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it's hard to explain but
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with all the emotions the the sadness
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the grieving we had
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the anger the frustration to being there
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but
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not being able to take her home and
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also all this happiness to be there with
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her
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to hold her to see her to smell her
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and feel her and it's
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so wonderful to have those memories with
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me
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during all the pain we also have
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and i have struggled a lot with pain
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and i have been
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through a lot of therapy because of this
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and i have turned a lot of the pain to
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good emotions like love and happiness
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yeah good things so that's good
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that that sounds positive because it
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would be hard to
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er not hard to do that but very easy to
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go the other way
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no um and take a lot of negativity from
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that and
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anger almost i can imagine anger would
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have been the first place to go
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um after upset but it's it's nice to
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hear that you've got
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to a point now where you've kind of
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turned the page almost
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to to that positivity side of things and
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that you had all these positive
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experiences
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things that you wouldn't have been able
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to do had it had not happened
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so that's really good to hear that
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yes
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well um after this um
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mira had been alive for um like
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three or four hours so we were mowed
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to neonatal at that time so they could
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try to put a tube in her to feed her
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so we were mowed over there and
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when we came into our room we
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had there we changed
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so joaquin could hold her
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and he told me afterward that
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when it was confirmed that he was going
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to hold her
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he almost ripped his shirt in half to
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get it
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off him to then put the hospital chart
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on
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so he could have mira
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beneath the hospital chart in a good way
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yeah and
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then they tried to put the tube but
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it was really difficult and they wasn't
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they weren't able to do that
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and um during the time we had her there
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they tried three times one
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wiki joaquim one with me and the last
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time
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it was after midnight
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they put her on a table with a heating
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mattress to keep her warm when she
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wasn't playing with us
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and i took that time to go to the
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bathroom because
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i've been told from the doctors you need
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to go to the bathroom
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regular because after the epidural you
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won't feel the need
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and when i came out of the bathroom i
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felt a change in the atmosphere in the
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room
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and i was focused on getting a glass of
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water to take my
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medication at that time but i
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put the glass away and went
0:09:56.800,0:10:04.959
up to joakim and the two nurses
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to see what was going on
0:10:04.959,0:10:09.760
then joaquin told me it's time
0:10:09.920,0:10:19.040
so after 11 hours alive
0:10:14.079,0:10:21.519
she was now giving up
0:10:19.040,0:10:22.320
so i went up there he woke him hugged me
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really hard
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and really close so i was standing there
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in a
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quite awkward situation position
0:10:29.440,0:10:33.440
because i wanted to hug you joaquim but
0:10:31.760,0:10:36.000
also i wanted to
0:10:33.440,0:10:38.640
let mira know that i was there with her
0:10:36.000,0:10:41.760
so i could put a hand on her
0:10:38.640,0:10:43.760
and then the doctor came in and
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took this stethoscope and listened and
0:10:43.760,0:10:49.839
said yeah i can only hear the heart now
0:10:46.560,0:10:52.800
so it won't be long
0:10:49.839,0:10:54.160
and at that point i felt the need to
0:10:52.800,0:10:56.320
hold mira again
0:10:54.160,0:10:58.640
because she was laying there on this
0:10:56.320,0:11:00.000
table and it felt horrible to see her
0:10:58.640,0:11:03.600
lying there without
0:11:00.000,0:11:06.560
anyone holding her so i released myself
0:11:03.600,0:11:09.600
from joaquin designer i want to hold her
0:11:06.560,0:11:12.959
and i gently picked her up and got help
0:11:09.600,0:11:15.839
to open up the shirt so i could put her
0:11:12.959,0:11:15.839
skin to skin
0:11:16.079,0:11:20.560
and i held her there close to my own
0:11:19.839,0:11:25.040
heart
0:11:20.560,0:11:25.040
even her own when her heart stopped
0:11:26.839,0:11:31.680
beating
0:11:28.160,0:11:34.800
and we were alone at the time uh
0:11:31.680,0:11:39.519
the doctor said we will leave you
0:11:34.800,0:11:39.519
to be alone this last moment with her
0:11:40.399,0:11:43.760
so we were there alone and then they
0:11:43.120,0:11:46.079
came in
0:11:43.760,0:11:48.320
and the doctor confirmed that she was
0:11:46.079,0:11:48.320
gone
0:11:49.760,0:11:57.600
and yeah then we cleaned her
0:11:53.519,0:12:00.800
and dressed her and they had this
0:11:57.600,0:12:04.079
baby caskets i
0:12:00.800,0:12:07.760
think it's super name
0:12:04.079,0:12:10.320
where they put her in a cooling mattress
0:12:07.760,0:12:11.839
so we could have her as long as we
0:12:10.320,0:12:15.680
wanted
0:12:11.839,0:12:19.040
because that's what i have learned
0:12:15.680,0:12:22.720
you do in all sweden but also
0:12:19.040,0:12:25.760
in america in uk and in countries
0:12:22.720,0:12:28.160
where they know that it's important that
0:12:25.760,0:12:29.360
when your baby dies that you have the
0:12:28.160,0:12:32.480
baby
0:12:29.360,0:12:35.839
until you're ready to leave
0:12:32.480,0:12:38.160
the baby behind so to say
0:12:35.839,0:12:40.639
it sounds really wrong to say it but
0:12:38.160,0:12:43.920
that's the way
0:12:40.639,0:12:46.160
the reality yeah
0:12:43.920,0:12:47.600
so we don't think anybody anybody would
0:12:46.160,0:12:50.480
be able to understand how you feel
0:12:47.600,0:12:53.120
unless you've gone through that
0:12:50.480,0:12:53.519
although your storytelling is so vivid
0:12:53.120,0:12:55.360
that
0:12:53.519,0:12:57.120
i feel like we are going through it with
0:12:55.360,0:13:00.399
you um
0:12:57.120,0:13:03.279
i know what you think it's yeah
0:13:00.399,0:13:05.120
um i could feel myself choking up as you
0:13:03.279,0:13:08.720
were speaking and i was
0:13:05.120,0:13:08.720
i was like okay keep it together
0:13:09.839,0:13:13.120
sorry sorry yeah no i was just going to
0:13:11.680,0:13:16.240
say thank you for sharing again
0:13:13.120,0:13:17.680
because i know we talked about last time
0:13:16.240,0:13:20.000
it was almost a little bit like a
0:13:17.680,0:13:21.440
therapy session um
0:13:20.000,0:13:23.760
where we're sharing all these things
0:13:21.440,0:13:25.600
together um but i kind of hope that
0:13:23.760,0:13:28.079
that's how these come across
0:13:25.600,0:13:29.440
when when we release them as a series
0:13:28.079,0:13:32.320
i'm hoping that that's
0:13:29.440,0:13:32.639
that's what it kind of does for people
0:13:32.320,0:13:34.880
that
0:13:32.639,0:13:36.880
they see that it's not just them and
0:13:34.880,0:13:38.880
that
0:13:36.880,0:13:40.320
other people are going through painful
0:13:38.880,0:13:42.320
scenarios and
0:13:40.320,0:13:44.399
things that are normal if that people
0:13:42.320,0:13:45.360
think or perceive our normal everyday
0:13:44.399,0:13:48.000
things
0:13:45.360,0:13:49.440
and from a unique perspective and
0:13:48.000,0:13:51.839
knowing that they're not alone
0:13:49.440,0:13:53.600
and i'm hoping and i know paul feels the
0:13:51.839,0:13:57.440
same i'm not putting words in his mind
0:13:53.600,0:14:00.399
at all so that that is the
0:13:57.440,0:14:02.000
the kind of goal of this to to help
0:14:00.399,0:14:02.560
share these experiences with other
0:14:02.000,0:14:05.440
people
0:14:02.560,0:14:06.480
and to learn just share the learning i
0:14:05.440,0:14:09.279
guess and
0:14:06.480,0:14:09.920
learning that you're not alone out there
0:14:09.279,0:14:14.079
yeah
0:14:09.920,0:14:17.120
today yes you spoke about
0:14:14.079,0:14:19.279
being being with meter for his
0:14:17.120,0:14:21.040
until you were ready for as long as you
0:14:19.279,0:14:24.800
as you needed
0:14:21.040,0:14:26.000
yeah how do you come to that decision
0:14:24.800,0:14:28.560
how do you know
0:14:26.000,0:14:30.079
okay i'm ready how long how long did it
0:14:28.560,0:14:31.600
take did you
0:14:30.079,0:14:34.959
you and your husband reached that point
0:14:31.600,0:14:34.959
at the same time different times
0:14:35.279,0:14:41.600
um the truth is
0:14:38.399,0:14:46.079
neither of us was ready to leave
0:14:41.600,0:14:49.920
we did it anyway it's like when you
0:14:46.079,0:14:53.839
rip the bandage off it's like that
0:14:49.920,0:14:57.120
for us i could have stayed there for
0:14:53.839,0:14:58.399
a whole week longer and you're allowed
0:14:57.120,0:15:01.440
to do that and
0:14:58.399,0:15:03.360
here in sweden you are also allowed to
0:15:01.440,0:15:07.360
take the child home with you
0:15:03.360,0:15:10.959
if you want to okay um
0:15:07.360,0:15:11.600
that felt too weird for us to take her
0:15:10.959,0:15:14.639
home
0:15:11.600,0:15:18.320
when she wasn't alive so we
0:15:14.639,0:15:22.160
pretty early decided to not do that
0:15:18.320,0:15:26.959
um but we we slept the night
0:15:22.160,0:15:30.399
with her between us
0:15:26.959,0:15:33.279
and um the day after
0:15:30.399,0:15:33.839
we called our parents to let them know
0:15:33.279,0:15:37.600
that
0:15:33.839,0:15:39.360
she was gone and let them know that
0:15:37.600,0:15:41.519
if they wanted to come back to the
0:15:39.360,0:15:45.360
hospital to see her
0:15:41.519,0:15:47.199
and one last time they could do that
0:15:45.360,0:15:49.120
and my father was the only one who
0:15:47.199,0:15:52.720
didn't come back
0:15:49.120,0:15:56.000
and my mother and his parents came
0:15:52.720,0:15:59.759
yorking's parents um and
0:15:56.000,0:16:03.680
when they left um we had some lunch
0:15:59.759,0:16:06.839
and then i said to joaquin
0:16:03.680,0:16:10.560
maybe it's time to go and
0:16:06.839,0:16:14.079
and we didn't leave the hospital
0:16:10.560,0:16:17.839
because i had pre-campsia
0:16:14.079,0:16:20.639
so i needed to stay in the hospital
0:16:17.839,0:16:21.360
so they can monitor me and make sure
0:16:20.639,0:16:24.880
that
0:16:21.360,0:16:28.320
i got well before i was released and
0:16:24.880,0:16:33.600
could go home so when we
0:16:28.320,0:16:36.880
left meera in neonatal we went back to
0:16:33.600,0:16:40.800
the room where we got the news of
0:16:36.880,0:16:44.000
her not being able to survive and
0:16:40.800,0:16:44.000
at first i was
0:16:45.360,0:16:50.560
horrified that we were going back to
0:16:48.720,0:16:51.680
that room because i didn't want to go
0:16:50.560,0:16:54.800
back there
0:16:51.680,0:16:57.759
but as we talked about
0:16:54.800,0:16:58.959
therapy it was good to go back to that
0:16:57.759,0:17:02.399
room
0:16:58.959,0:17:04.720
because then the room wasn't
0:17:02.399,0:17:06.720
going to be this horrible room where we
0:17:04.720,0:17:09.760
got the horrible news
0:17:06.720,0:17:13.520
it was going to be a more neutral room
0:17:09.760,0:17:18.160
okay it's just a room it's not there
0:17:13.520,0:17:22.799
yeah so we spent another night there
0:17:18.160,0:17:26.480
and now it's sunday
0:17:22.799,0:17:29.600
and the doctor that was
0:17:26.480,0:17:33.600
with us when i delivered mira she came
0:17:29.600,0:17:37.039
into me and she just opened her arms
0:17:33.600,0:17:37.679
gave me this big hug and she told me
0:17:37.039,0:17:41.679
that
0:17:37.679,0:17:46.000
i am now going to be unprofessional
0:17:41.679,0:17:49.120
and what she told me there
0:17:46.000,0:17:52.160
it was she threw me a life
0:17:49.120,0:17:55.120
boy because i was drowning
0:17:52.160,0:17:57.679
but what she that she said to me it
0:17:55.120,0:18:01.200
helped me to survive
0:17:57.679,0:18:04.080
and she told me that 30 years ago
0:18:01.200,0:18:06.480
something like that she lost her first
0:18:04.080,0:18:06.480
baby
0:18:08.240,0:18:13.200
a baby boy and she wanted me to know
0:18:11.600,0:18:15.039
that
0:18:13.200,0:18:16.880
and she also wanted me to know that she
0:18:15.039,0:18:21.440
had children after
0:18:16.880,0:18:24.960
that baby boy and she wanted me to
0:18:21.440,0:18:29.039
keep that with me so i will
0:18:24.960,0:18:31.360
be able to move forward and to
0:18:29.039,0:18:32.320
think and have this thinking with me
0:18:31.360,0:18:36.480
that i
0:18:32.320,0:18:39.760
can have other children i can
0:18:36.480,0:18:42.960
go forward and try
0:18:39.760,0:18:46.240
more to have another child yeah and
0:18:42.960,0:18:49.200
that helped a lot
0:18:46.240,0:18:49.200
yeah sometimes these
0:18:49.280,0:18:52.480
almost unscripted moments yeah random
0:18:51.760,0:18:54.960
acts of
0:18:52.480,0:18:56.640
yeah unscripted moments like that where
0:18:54.960,0:18:59.440
i'm sure it would have been
0:18:56.640,0:19:01.360
a lot easier maybe not the right word
0:18:59.440,0:19:02.720
but as you say maybe more professional
0:19:01.360,0:19:05.760
to say nothing but
0:19:02.720,0:19:09.120
in times like that you often find that
0:19:05.760,0:19:11.360
the need to be professional almost
0:19:09.120,0:19:12.400
is superseded by the need to be a human
0:19:11.360,0:19:15.120
and to
0:19:12.400,0:19:16.799
to help someone else and as you say it's
0:19:15.120,0:19:18.320
helped you enormously to have had that
0:19:16.799,0:19:20.640
so thank goodness that
0:19:18.320,0:19:22.000
that she did so she made that choice to
0:19:20.640,0:19:25.520
humanize that moment
0:19:22.000,0:19:29.120
absolutely yeah yeah
0:19:25.520,0:19:32.799
because um another thing is that uh
0:19:29.120,0:19:36.240
here in sweden we have this organization
0:19:32.799,0:19:39.520
and infant organization
0:19:36.240,0:19:42.640
it's a pretty good translation and
0:19:39.520,0:19:46.640
so when meera died we had this bag
0:19:42.640,0:19:49.760
with information about them
0:19:46.640,0:19:50.480
and numbers and email addresses we could
0:19:49.760,0:19:53.520
reach out
0:19:50.480,0:19:56.880
to talk with other parents that
0:19:53.520,0:20:00.480
have lost children
0:19:56.880,0:20:01.520
so with that information about the
0:20:00.480,0:20:05.039
organization
0:20:01.520,0:20:08.480
and also the doctor's story
0:20:05.039,0:20:10.159
it helped us a lot to move forward from
0:20:08.480,0:20:13.280
that point
0:20:10.159,0:20:16.799
so when we went home
0:20:13.280,0:20:20.159
yeah we felt that the whole
0:20:16.799,0:20:20.720
whole world was standing still so going
0:20:20.159,0:20:23.520
out
0:20:20.720,0:20:24.880
from the hospital it felt so weird
0:20:23.520,0:20:27.280
because
0:20:24.880,0:20:28.080
people were moving around they were
0:20:27.280,0:20:31.760
talking
0:20:28.080,0:20:31.760
like nothing had happened yeah
0:20:32.080,0:20:35.120
like did these people not know what
0:20:33.760,0:20:36.880
you'd been through did they not
0:20:35.120,0:20:38.400
understand
0:20:36.880,0:20:39.919
how dare they get on with their lives
0:20:38.400,0:20:42.159
like okay like
0:20:39.919,0:20:43.840
yeah you just get that because you've
0:20:42.159,0:20:44.600
been through ever that moment and it's
0:20:43.840,0:20:47.200
been so
0:20:44.600,0:20:49.200
life-hiring for you that everybody
0:20:47.200,0:20:49.760
should understand how you feel in that
0:20:49.200,0:20:53.679
moment
0:20:49.760,0:20:56.799
yeah yeah so i was so angry
0:20:53.679,0:20:59.360
at the people i could see because
0:20:56.799,0:21:00.080
i wanted to scream why why are you
0:20:59.360,0:21:02.960
continue
0:21:00.080,0:21:05.360
with your life why don't you stop and
0:21:02.960,0:21:08.159
think for a moment how
0:21:05.360,0:21:08.960
everything can just shatter in a moment
0:21:08.159,0:21:13.120
yeah
0:21:08.960,0:21:13.120
yeah so but we kept
0:21:13.840,0:21:18.080
everything inside and i went to the
0:21:17.360,0:21:21.360
pharmacy
0:21:18.080,0:21:25.679
to get some painkillers
0:21:21.360,0:21:29.120
and other things i needed and
0:21:25.679,0:21:30.000
i was asked for what do you need the
0:21:29.120,0:21:33.919
painkillers and
0:21:30.000,0:21:36.880
i was yeah i have just given birth
0:21:33.919,0:21:39.039
and she asked well are you going to
0:21:36.880,0:21:42.159
breastfeed
0:21:39.039,0:21:43.679
no i am not going to breastfeed
0:21:42.159,0:21:45.120
you'd think there would be some kind of
0:21:43.679,0:21:46.480
letter that you could give to a
0:21:45.120,0:21:48.480
pharmacist in that moment
0:21:46.480,0:21:49.840
to say i don't really want to talk about
0:21:48.480,0:21:52.159
this yes
0:21:49.840,0:21:52.880
here's what's happened just give me the
0:21:52.159,0:21:56.159
things i need
0:21:52.880,0:21:57.679
please yeah like yeah it seems
0:21:56.159,0:21:59.520
i know it's not insensitive they need to
0:21:57.679,0:22:01.200
ask these questions but
0:21:59.520,0:22:02.799
you would like to feel some kind of
0:22:01.200,0:22:04.400
protocol
0:22:02.799,0:22:06.400
where you hand over a certain color
0:22:04.400,0:22:08.159
piece of paper or you have to you like
0:22:06.400,0:22:10.080
even a sticker on your nose you know
0:22:08.159,0:22:12.240
something that says
0:22:10.080,0:22:13.600
discreet enough to avoid something
0:22:12.240,0:22:15.200
different enough that nobody would know
0:22:13.600,0:22:18.320
what it was but they would know
0:22:15.200,0:22:19.600
right okay right let's let's let's be a
0:22:18.320,0:22:22.640
bit more
0:22:19.600,0:22:26.640
kit gloves here yeah sensitive
0:22:22.640,0:22:29.360
yeah yeah so yeah it was kind of
0:22:26.640,0:22:29.679
a miracle that i didn't break down there
0:22:29.360,0:22:32.400
and
0:22:29.679,0:22:33.600
start crying but i was like yeah um i'm
0:22:32.400,0:22:37.120
not going to breastfeed
0:22:33.600,0:22:40.320
just give me the stuff so i can go home
0:22:37.120,0:22:43.440
um we did one thing that was
0:22:40.320,0:22:46.240
very difficult to do before we went home
0:22:43.440,0:22:46.720
we went to a shopping center and we
0:22:46.240,0:22:50.320
bought
0:22:46.720,0:22:53.360
some frames uh for the pictures
0:22:50.320,0:22:57.039
the pictures yeah so we could put them
0:22:53.360,0:23:00.320
in there as soon as we printed the
0:22:57.039,0:23:02.880
the pictures we had ourselves and
0:23:00.320,0:23:03.679
when the photographs were coming we
0:23:02.880,0:23:06.720
could
0:23:03.679,0:23:10.000
put them also in frames so we did that
0:23:06.720,0:23:11.919
and then we went home and we all still
0:23:10.000,0:23:14.240
were kim's parents to meet the stars so
0:23:11.919,0:23:16.159
we didn't have to go home to this empty
0:23:14.240,0:23:18.880
silent home
0:23:16.159,0:23:19.520
and we are so thankful for them meeting
0:23:18.880,0:23:23.440
us star
0:23:19.520,0:23:26.640
being there when we went home
0:23:23.440,0:23:30.960
and yeah we
0:23:26.640,0:23:34.799
held a funeral uh a month later
0:23:30.960,0:23:35.440
and when we when i gave birth to mira it
0:23:34.799,0:23:37.760
wasn't
0:23:35.440,0:23:39.440
that much snow it was a little snow but
0:23:37.760,0:23:43.440
not much
0:23:39.440,0:23:46.960
and then there came a snowstorm
0:23:43.440,0:23:48.840
so it was a lot of snow the day we had
0:23:46.960,0:23:51.840
the funeral
0:23:48.840,0:23:55.039
and this day joaquin
0:23:51.840,0:23:58.960
and i shared our first yoke
0:23:55.039,0:24:02.080
uh after her or that
0:23:58.960,0:24:05.440
sort of healing for us to be able to
0:24:02.080,0:24:08.880
laugh again and it was a
0:24:05.440,0:24:12.960
very beautiful day and the
0:24:08.880,0:24:16.400
sun shined for a moment and
0:24:12.960,0:24:20.480
the snow was glittering it was a totally
0:24:16.400,0:24:23.279
white winter wonderland so beautiful
0:24:20.480,0:24:24.159
and then you walk inside i think mira
0:24:23.279,0:24:26.720
loves snow
0:24:24.159,0:24:28.960
because she has sent the snow here from
0:24:26.720,0:24:32.000
herron
0:24:28.960,0:24:35.679
and i answered well either that she
0:24:32.000,0:24:40.320
knows no or she hates snows
0:24:35.679,0:24:40.320
how the snow in heaven she sent it to us
0:24:42.159,0:24:48.720
so yeah it was a good moment
0:24:45.360,0:24:53.039
to make the first yoke
0:24:48.720,0:24:56.960
so we could start heal properly
0:24:53.039,0:24:56.960
yeah it sounds like
0:24:57.039,0:25:00.320
like we said before that's such a an
0:24:59.520,0:25:03.279
emotional
0:25:00.320,0:25:04.640
roller coaster for for of course you and
0:25:03.279,0:25:06.720
your family and for for
0:25:04.640,0:25:07.840
us carrying out this interview and for
0:25:06.720,0:25:10.720
you listening and
0:25:07.840,0:25:12.840
you speak about starting to heal um how
0:25:10.720,0:25:15.200
much time has passed
0:25:12.840,0:25:17.440
since the experience you just told us
0:25:15.200,0:25:17.440
about
0:25:18.320,0:25:26.400
in march it will be
0:25:22.000,0:25:29.679
three years since the funeral okay
0:25:26.400,0:25:31.520
do you feel i
0:25:29.679,0:25:34.000
imagine it's very difficult to quantify
0:25:31.520,0:25:36.799
something like this but
0:25:34.000,0:25:38.240
when you think back to how you felt then
0:25:36.799,0:25:40.559
perhaps on the day of the funeral the
0:25:38.240,0:25:42.559
day you just described compared to
0:25:40.559,0:25:44.159
how you feel now what's the what's the
0:25:42.559,0:25:45.279
journey been like what's the healing
0:25:44.159,0:25:48.720
process if that's that's
0:25:45.279,0:25:54.480
the correct term been like for you both
0:25:48.720,0:25:54.480
it's been uh horrible from time to time
0:25:54.799,0:26:01.039
as i told you um the last time i am a
0:25:57.919,0:26:04.400
preschool teacher so
0:26:01.039,0:26:05.360
i work with kids that are as young as
0:26:04.400,0:26:08.720
one year old
0:26:05.360,0:26:12.159
and the oldest are five-year-olds
0:26:08.720,0:26:12.159
and i develop
0:26:12.640,0:26:18.799
how do you say developed yeah thank you
0:26:16.320,0:26:24.080
no problem don't ask me to say again
0:26:18.799,0:26:27.279
better my swedish
0:26:24.080,0:26:28.400
well uh i want to go into that now let's
0:26:27.279,0:26:32.320
let's not go there
0:26:28.400,0:26:32.320
let's stick to english you developed
0:26:33.039,0:26:41.440
and i got ptsd
0:26:37.039,0:26:44.559
post-traumatic stress disorder
0:26:41.440,0:26:46.960
and because of that i was working with
0:26:44.559,0:26:46.960
kids
0:26:47.520,0:26:51.120
again i can only imagine how difficult
0:26:49.520,0:26:53.520
that must be
0:26:51.120,0:26:55.440
to see children on a day-to-day break
0:26:53.520,0:26:59.760
basis especially in the age group
0:26:55.440,0:27:02.400
that your daughter would be in um
0:26:59.760,0:27:04.240
i mean i did your employers kind of
0:27:02.400,0:27:05.679
understand
0:27:04.240,0:27:08.240
what you were going through did you had
0:27:05.679,0:27:10.080
you shared that with them or
0:27:08.240,0:27:11.440
because to me obviously having had this
0:27:10.080,0:27:13.520
conversation with you it seems
0:27:11.440,0:27:15.520
obvious that that would be a difficult
0:27:13.520,0:27:17.840
thing but would they
0:27:15.520,0:27:18.640
did they show you some kind of empathy
0:27:17.840,0:27:22.640
or
0:27:18.640,0:27:25.919
or the understanding about the situation
0:27:22.640,0:27:29.120
well this is a story
0:27:25.919,0:27:32.320
a part of my story that
0:27:29.120,0:27:35.600
gets me really upset and angry because
0:27:32.320,0:27:38.159
at first i was given a lot of um
0:27:35.600,0:27:38.159
empathy
0:27:39.360,0:27:46.799
well they were understanding thank you
0:27:42.960,0:27:49.919
and they did understand that i was
0:27:46.799,0:27:53.039
grieving and i was sad and
0:27:49.919,0:27:55.360
i asked the first thing i asked was
0:27:53.039,0:27:56.480
please don't make me go back to the
0:27:55.360,0:27:59.679
preschool
0:27:56.480,0:28:02.159
i could do anything else but please
0:27:59.679,0:28:02.880
i don't want to go back there i can't do
0:28:02.159,0:28:06.480
that
0:28:02.880,0:28:10.000
any any other job i'll make tea just
0:28:06.480,0:28:11.919
please don't send me back there yeah i i
0:28:10.000,0:28:13.039
i mean i i didn't go through it but i
0:28:11.919,0:28:15.520
feel like i've been through it with you
0:28:13.039,0:28:19.279
and i understand
0:28:15.520,0:28:23.120
you think they would understand yeah um
0:28:19.279,0:28:26.640
but the doctors and my boss
0:28:23.120,0:28:29.919
my parents like everyone
0:28:26.640,0:28:30.960
uh told me you need to go back there
0:28:29.919,0:28:34.159
because
0:28:30.960,0:28:37.440
you know the kids you know the parents
0:28:34.159,0:28:39.120
and you have the safety with your
0:28:37.440,0:28:42.559
co-workers
0:28:39.120,0:28:45.039
and i was yeah i don't care about that
0:28:42.559,0:28:45.760
i don't care about knowing everything
0:28:45.039,0:28:49.120
there
0:28:45.760,0:28:53.919
i don't want to go back there but
0:28:49.120,0:28:58.000
i was kind of forced to go back there
0:28:53.919,0:29:01.919
and at first i was
0:28:58.000,0:29:06.000
just working 20 hours a week
0:29:01.919,0:29:09.919
and and i was supposed to do that
0:29:06.000,0:29:13.279
to summer so i started to work in may
0:29:09.919,0:29:16.640
2nd of may and
0:29:13.279,0:29:19.679
i didn't go every day some days
0:29:16.640,0:29:21.760
i couldn't get up from bed i
0:29:19.679,0:29:22.960
got up from bed i went to the bathroom
0:29:21.760,0:29:25.520
and then i just
0:29:22.960,0:29:26.720
go back to bed and later i couldn't do
0:29:25.520,0:29:30.000
anything
0:29:26.720,0:29:33.120
some days i started to drive to work
0:29:30.000,0:29:35.600
because that's also the one thing i
0:29:33.120,0:29:37.520
have to drive to my work there is no
0:29:35.600,0:29:40.799
other way for me to get there
0:29:37.520,0:29:44.159
so driving was also difficult
0:29:40.799,0:29:44.640
so some days i started driving and then
0:29:44.159,0:29:47.039
i was
0:29:44.640,0:29:48.559
no i'm turned back i'm not going to work
0:29:47.039,0:29:51.279
today
0:29:48.559,0:29:52.240
and i had days that i could go to work
0:29:51.279,0:29:55.840
and be there
0:29:52.240,0:29:58.960
and being with the children and
0:29:55.840,0:30:03.760
going home after four hours
0:29:58.960,0:30:03.760
five hours and feel okay
0:30:03.840,0:30:12.000
and then i start to feel this
0:30:07.760,0:30:16.640
weird emotion that something is wrong
0:30:12.000,0:30:20.000
i don't i can't be close to the kids
0:30:16.640,0:30:22.880
the thing with young children is that
0:30:20.000,0:30:24.000
when they feel safe with you they want
0:30:22.880,0:30:26.559
to be
0:30:24.000,0:30:28.000
close to you when they like you so the
0:30:26.559,0:30:30.880
kids they wanted to sit
0:30:28.000,0:30:31.919
next to me they wanted to sit in my lap
0:30:30.880,0:30:35.039
they wanted to hug
0:30:31.919,0:30:36.000
me and stuff like that normally
0:30:35.039,0:30:38.080
something that would be
0:30:36.000,0:30:39.120
endearing and something that would make
0:30:38.080,0:30:41.600
you
0:30:39.120,0:30:42.559
would also almost make your heart warm
0:30:41.600,0:30:46.480
um
0:30:42.559,0:30:48.960
it's not causing you pain yeah yeah
0:30:46.480,0:30:50.240
so i started to realize that i was when
0:30:48.960,0:30:54.000
the kids were
0:30:50.240,0:30:57.039
sitting next to me i was scooping away i
0:30:54.000,0:31:00.080
didn't want them to touch me
0:30:57.039,0:31:03.440
and yeah it
0:31:00.080,0:31:07.200
became emotions that
0:31:03.440,0:31:10.399
became voices in my head is in such
0:31:07.200,0:31:13.919
a way and it
0:31:10.399,0:31:16.960
turned to this day that we were
0:31:13.919,0:31:20.960
it was summer now and
0:31:16.960,0:31:24.799
we were outside a really warm day
0:31:20.960,0:31:28.480
and i heard a a
0:31:24.799,0:31:31.760
a young boy he was one one years old
0:31:28.480,0:31:32.880
so he has started preschool and his
0:31:31.760,0:31:35.679
teacher had
0:31:32.880,0:31:36.480
laid him in a stroller to sleep and he
0:31:35.679,0:31:39.840
woke up and
0:31:36.480,0:31:42.880
he was crying at first i tried to
0:31:39.840,0:31:45.039
get contact with the other teachers
0:31:42.880,0:31:46.240
around me and to let them know that he
0:31:45.039,0:31:49.679
was crying
0:31:46.240,0:31:51.519
and no one was hearing so i went back to
0:31:49.679,0:31:53.840
the stroller and tried to
0:31:51.519,0:31:54.880
suit him again sleeping without picking
0:31:53.840,0:31:59.760
me up
0:31:54.880,0:32:02.960
and it didn't work so i picked him up
0:31:59.760,0:32:06.159
and i went to uh this big stone
0:32:02.960,0:32:09.519
that i could sit down on and
0:32:06.159,0:32:13.200
had him in his my lap and this child
0:32:09.519,0:32:16.799
he didn't know me because i was in an
0:32:13.200,0:32:16.799
other department
0:32:18.159,0:32:22.240
but it was like he felt safe with me
0:32:21.440,0:32:26.880
because he was
0:32:22.240,0:32:31.200
relaxing in my lap and that was when i
0:32:26.880,0:32:34.240
knew that i can't do this anymore
0:32:31.200,0:32:36.480
because in this moment i got scared of
0:32:34.240,0:32:40.559
myself
0:32:36.480,0:32:43.039
my emotions got into voices
0:32:40.559,0:32:43.600
and those voices told me to pick this
0:32:43.039,0:32:47.760
child
0:32:43.600,0:32:51.120
up and throw him into a tree
0:32:47.760,0:32:55.279
standing two meters from me okay okay
0:32:51.120,0:32:57.760
and this was so scary i have never been
0:32:55.279,0:33:00.960
that scared in my life about myself
0:32:57.760,0:33:00.960
about my actions
0:33:02.000,0:33:05.840
i was able to put him back into the
0:33:04.960,0:33:08.000
stroller
0:33:05.840,0:33:09.360
i went to the other teacher and said you
0:33:08.000,0:33:13.519
need to take care of him
0:33:09.360,0:33:17.360
i need to go in i can't be here anymore
0:33:13.519,0:33:19.919
so i went inside and i was
0:33:17.360,0:33:20.880
lucky in that way i didn't break down
0:33:19.919,0:33:23.679
until i got
0:33:20.880,0:33:24.080
into this room where we have our break
0:33:23.679,0:33:27.840
and break
0:33:24.080,0:33:30.880
times and there i just broke down
0:33:27.840,0:33:34.080
and i was he knew that i can't i can't
0:33:30.880,0:33:35.760
do this anymore i can't come back here
0:33:34.080,0:33:37.279
so i called my boss and told her
0:33:35.760,0:33:40.799
everything and said that
0:33:37.279,0:33:43.760
this can't go on anymore and she said no
0:33:40.799,0:33:46.159
no of course not and we had a meeting
0:33:43.760,0:33:50.320
and she said you need professional help
0:33:46.159,0:33:53.279
yeah i do that yeah i
0:33:50.320,0:33:53.679
called my insurance company and asked
0:33:53.279,0:33:59.120
them
0:33:53.679,0:34:01.679
to get in touch with a psychologist
0:33:59.120,0:34:03.679
up until that point we had gone to a
0:34:01.679,0:34:06.799
therapist at a hospital
0:34:03.679,0:34:10.000
but i needed more help because
0:34:06.799,0:34:13.280
of the ptsd and my
0:34:10.000,0:34:16.480
reactions with the kids
0:34:13.280,0:34:20.800
so i was home again
0:34:16.480,0:34:24.159
full time i went to the psychologist
0:34:20.800,0:34:27.280
who told me that yeah you have ptsd
0:34:24.159,0:34:30.639
and she gave me help
0:34:27.280,0:34:34.240
to handle that
0:34:30.639,0:34:37.119
and also to handle
0:34:34.240,0:34:38.079
all those emotions that had turned into
0:34:37.119,0:34:41.280
negative
0:34:38.079,0:34:43.919
emotions from the birth
0:34:41.280,0:34:44.720
so she helped me turn them into positive
0:34:43.919,0:34:49.280
emotions
0:34:44.720,0:34:52.720
and that was really great because
0:34:49.280,0:34:55.599
now i can remember
0:34:52.720,0:34:56.240
the time with mira with love and happy
0:34:55.599,0:34:59.520
thoughts
0:34:56.240,0:35:02.560
instead of all this anger and
0:34:59.520,0:35:05.359
sadness so she was really helpful
0:35:02.560,0:35:08.240
uh and she i she's told me that i was
0:35:05.359,0:35:11.040
the first person she helped with
0:35:08.240,0:35:12.800
the loss of a child but she helped a lot
0:35:11.040,0:35:15.359
of people with ptsd
0:35:12.800,0:35:17.359
so she was really good that's really
0:35:15.359,0:35:19.520
good and i imagine
0:35:17.359,0:35:21.359
should you may not be the last person
0:35:19.520,0:35:23.280
that she has to help with such a
0:35:21.359,0:35:24.720
situation so it will have been useful
0:35:23.280,0:35:26.160
for her as well to
0:35:24.720,0:35:27.680
i've had the experience of helping you
0:35:26.160,0:35:28.960
which will hopefully turn going to help
0:35:27.680,0:35:30.480
others so
0:35:28.960,0:35:32.000
yeah i'm really glad you'll be able to
0:35:30.480,0:35:33.520
get that help it does sound the
0:35:32.000,0:35:34.640
experience you spoke about picking up
0:35:33.520,0:35:37.760
the child
0:35:34.640,0:35:40.800
and having that thought must have been
0:35:37.760,0:35:41.599
terrifying you said yourself i'm just
0:35:40.800,0:35:43.359
glad that
0:35:41.599,0:35:45.359
obviously you didn't carry through i
0:35:43.359,0:35:48.160
mean that as easily as possible
0:35:45.359,0:35:50.079
in that moment that moment of insanity
0:35:48.160,0:35:51.200
you could have
0:35:50.079,0:35:54.160
you could have followed through with
0:35:51.200,0:35:56.880
that thought process and um
0:35:54.160,0:35:57.760
i mean thank goodness he didn't but i
0:35:56.880,0:36:00.640
can imagine
0:35:57.760,0:36:02.240
for your own uh your own experience and
0:36:00.640,0:36:03.920
that's exactly why you had to walk away
0:36:02.240,0:36:04.880
because you had frightened yourself in
0:36:03.920,0:36:07.839
that moment
0:36:04.880,0:36:08.480
yeah and again your storytelling is so
0:36:07.839,0:36:11.440
good
0:36:08.480,0:36:11.760
that thank you it feels like we're with
0:36:11.440,0:36:15.680
you
0:36:11.760,0:36:17.599
in every step of this and um
0:36:15.680,0:36:19.760
that's a testament to you as well but
0:36:17.599,0:36:19.760
the
0:36:20.640,0:36:24.000
the psychologist has clearly helped you
0:36:22.400,0:36:27.040
with that and
0:36:24.000,0:36:28.320
and it's just such it's such a positive
0:36:27.040,0:36:28.720
thing we talked about this just before
0:36:28.320,0:36:31.599
we
0:36:28.720,0:36:32.640
um in this in this episode that um
0:36:31.599,0:36:34.240
you've been able to switch that
0:36:32.640,0:36:37.280
negativity into positivity
0:36:34.240,0:36:38.480
is just a it's like it's a gift and i
0:36:37.280,0:36:40.240
think
0:36:38.480,0:36:41.760
it's it's incredible really what
0:36:40.240,0:36:44.000
psychology can do
0:36:41.760,0:36:46.000
yeah is that something you've you have
0:36:44.000,0:36:49.280
to consciously do
0:36:46.000,0:36:50.800
do you have to consciously think of a
0:36:49.280,0:36:51.760
positive or is that something that's
0:36:50.800,0:36:54.160
come about
0:36:51.760,0:36:56.720
as a result of the work you've done and
0:36:54.160,0:36:59.599
now it happens naturally
0:36:56.720,0:37:00.160
today it happens naturally thanks for
0:36:59.599,0:37:03.520
the help
0:37:00.160,0:37:06.079
i got from the psychologist and
0:37:03.520,0:37:08.480
during all the therapy sessions i had
0:37:06.079,0:37:12.880
been through uh
0:37:08.480,0:37:15.359
talks talk about this it really helps
0:37:12.880,0:37:16.880
it helps me to come to the place where i
0:37:15.359,0:37:21.200
am today
0:37:16.880,0:37:23.599
okay what is your work situation
0:37:21.200,0:37:24.480
like now you spoke about feeling the
0:37:23.599,0:37:29.040
need to
0:37:24.480,0:37:32.320
to leave your job yeah um
0:37:29.040,0:37:35.599
when i left my work i didn't
0:37:32.320,0:37:38.880
leave in that way that i wouldn't
0:37:35.599,0:37:43.440
never come back i got this
0:37:38.880,0:37:47.119
unpaid vacation to try another work
0:37:43.440,0:37:50.240
so i did that for a couple of months
0:37:47.119,0:37:53.280
um so i was sitting in a office uh
0:37:50.240,0:37:55.839
talking on the phone emailing helping
0:37:53.280,0:37:56.560
customers with their problems uh online
0:37:55.839,0:38:00.320
shopping
0:37:56.560,0:38:03.440
wow or a wife completely different
0:38:00.320,0:38:07.040
yeah clearly what you needed at the time
0:38:03.440,0:38:08.000
yeah it was good for me to do that a
0:38:07.040,0:38:10.560
couple of months
0:38:08.000,0:38:12.240
because i was getting help from the
0:38:10.560,0:38:15.680
psychologist
0:38:12.240,0:38:16.240
during that time and when i had a free
0:38:15.680,0:38:19.440
time
0:38:16.240,0:38:22.560
i went back to the preschool to visit
0:38:19.440,0:38:25.839
to see how it felt when
0:38:22.560,0:38:28.320
i got all the help and i started
0:38:25.839,0:38:29.200
to miss the children i started to miss
0:38:28.320,0:38:33.040
being there
0:38:29.200,0:38:36.400
in the preschool seeing their smiles and
0:38:33.040,0:38:39.200
hearing them calling my name when i come
0:38:36.400,0:38:43.920
to work and stuff like that
0:38:39.200,0:38:47.119
so finally in december 2018
0:38:43.920,0:38:50.960
almost a year after lucy mira i
0:38:47.119,0:38:55.760
went back and it didn't
0:38:50.960,0:38:58.320
go as well as i hoped so
0:38:55.760,0:38:59.440
a couple of months later i said no
0:38:58.320,0:39:03.440
[Music]
0:38:59.440,0:39:05.839
yeah this preschool is no good for me
0:39:03.440,0:39:07.680
if i'm going to continue my work as a
0:39:05.839,0:39:11.680
preschool teacher i need to change
0:39:07.680,0:39:11.680
preschool and
0:39:11.760,0:39:15.760
what was it that was causing that
0:39:13.440,0:39:16.400
feeling is it just the familiarity of
0:39:15.760,0:39:18.400
the staff
0:39:16.400,0:39:20.240
or the place or what was it that was
0:39:18.400,0:39:23.440
making you want to move on
0:39:20.240,0:39:26.480
it was the parents of the children
0:39:23.440,0:39:29.920
and the preschool itself
0:39:26.480,0:39:32.720
the environment there
0:39:29.920,0:39:33.280
it was those parts meeting the parents
0:39:32.720,0:39:38.000
that
0:39:33.280,0:39:41.280
knew all about mira it was really hard
0:39:38.000,0:39:46.320
we told them to not talk with me about
0:39:41.280,0:39:49.040
my loss but there's some ebook
0:39:46.320,0:39:49.599
this is true i imagine some of the some
0:39:49.040,0:39:52.400
of the cheap
0:39:49.599,0:39:53.520
things they're helping they think oh
0:39:52.400,0:39:56.560
yeah
0:39:53.520,0:39:58.240
yeah absolutely they can do but
0:39:56.560,0:40:00.880
i imagine some of the children as well
0:39:58.240,0:40:03.599
may have well i've seen you
0:40:00.880,0:40:05.680
become more and more pregnant and then
0:40:03.599,0:40:11.040
suddenly you're not pregnant and maybe
0:40:05.680,0:40:14.160
they didn't have the the ability to
0:40:11.040,0:40:18.000
to question that i'm not sure
0:40:14.160,0:40:21.520
the wonderful thing with children is
0:40:18.000,0:40:24.800
they take everything so
0:40:21.520,0:40:28.720
clearly in a way it's
0:40:24.800,0:40:31.040
kind of black or white
0:40:28.720,0:40:32.560
when you tell something they believe in
0:40:31.040,0:40:35.760
it
0:40:32.560,0:40:39.200
so the kids were wonderful
0:40:35.760,0:40:43.119
i have this moment when
0:40:39.200,0:40:46.560
we are sitting and eating lunch
0:40:43.119,0:40:49.920
and there is a parent death
0:40:46.560,0:40:53.760
in the preschool that also tries
0:40:49.920,0:40:55.040
for kids and she just learns that she's
0:40:53.760,0:40:57.280
going to have twins
0:40:55.040,0:40:58.880
and then she lose them really early in
0:40:57.280,0:41:02.160
the pregnancy
0:40:58.880,0:41:05.760
and her daughter and she said
0:41:02.160,0:41:10.960
in this lunch time my mother
0:41:05.760,0:41:13.200
lost her baby and this girl she didn't
0:41:10.960,0:41:15.280
know about me and losing my kids she was
0:41:13.200,0:41:18.400
too young for that at the time
0:41:15.280,0:41:21.599
but i had this other boy and he
0:41:18.400,0:41:22.480
turned five that year so he knew about
0:41:21.599,0:41:26.319
me
0:41:22.480,0:41:30.000
so he listened to this girl and then he
0:41:26.319,0:41:33.440
looked at me and he said do you think
0:41:30.000,0:41:36.240
the famous author of the lindgren
0:41:33.440,0:41:36.560
that wrote people long striking if you
0:41:36.240,0:41:40.640
know
0:41:36.560,0:41:45.040
those books those are really famous uh
0:41:40.640,0:41:48.560
in sweden uh so and where i work
0:41:45.040,0:41:49.280
she is her birthplace so we read her
0:41:48.560,0:41:52.400
books
0:41:49.280,0:41:55.599
very much so pipi longstocking
0:41:52.400,0:41:56.720
if you ever agree them i'm aware of pepe
0:41:55.599,0:42:00.560
longstocking
0:41:56.720,0:42:03.839
yeah good well
0:42:00.560,0:42:05.200
the boy he asked me do you think that
0:42:03.839,0:42:09.520
astrid lindgren
0:42:05.200,0:42:12.880
is taking care of your baby in heaven
0:42:09.520,0:42:13.839
and i almost put down crying because
0:42:12.880,0:42:17.119
that was
0:42:13.839,0:42:20.079
such a beautiful thing to say
0:42:17.119,0:42:21.280
and that's the thing with kids they say
0:42:20.079,0:42:23.200
those things
0:42:21.280,0:42:24.720
they have these thoughts and they just
0:42:23.200,0:42:27.200
say them and
0:42:24.720,0:42:28.319
it's beautiful so the kids are not the
0:42:27.200,0:42:32.720
problem for me
0:42:28.319,0:42:36.160
okay not that this time it's the parents
0:42:32.720,0:42:38.720
and the environment the word
0:42:36.160,0:42:40.160
purity springs to mind with something
0:42:38.720,0:42:41.680
like that
0:42:40.160,0:42:44.079
like you said before it's it's almost
0:42:41.680,0:42:47.760
black and white and
0:42:44.079,0:42:51.920
yeah it just it just seems like such a
0:42:47.760,0:42:55.040
pure and innocent and yeah
0:42:51.920,0:42:58.400
you know instinctual i'm not sure
0:42:55.040,0:42:59.359
thing to say thank goodness it was said
0:42:58.400,0:43:03.280
as well because
0:42:59.359,0:43:07.119
i imagine it it did you some good
0:43:03.280,0:43:11.520
it did um
0:43:07.119,0:43:14.800
to have those natural questions that's
0:43:11.520,0:43:17.200
pure and innocent like you say um it's
0:43:14.800,0:43:21.040
so nice to have them
0:43:17.200,0:43:24.240
because all adults
0:43:21.040,0:43:26.960
they are like either oh no we can't
0:43:24.240,0:43:28.560
talk about this it's dangerous no no no
0:43:26.960,0:43:30.240
no
0:43:28.560,0:43:32.079
you're not supposed to talk about
0:43:30.240,0:43:34.800
infertility and you're not
0:43:32.079,0:43:36.640
absolutely not supposed to talk about
0:43:34.800,0:43:40.000
losing child
0:43:36.640,0:43:43.720
children it's nothing you can talk
0:43:40.000,0:43:46.640
about and i want to show that
0:43:43.720,0:43:49.359
absolutely talk about those things you
0:43:46.640,0:43:52.240
need to talk about them
0:43:49.359,0:43:55.359
because it's so common why do you think
0:43:52.240,0:43:58.560
that is that there's such a
0:43:55.359,0:43:58.560
a stigma such a
0:43:59.200,0:44:02.960
a desire not to have those conversations
0:44:02.240,0:44:06.319
that are
0:44:02.960,0:44:06.319
so real and so powerful
0:44:07.200,0:44:11.200
i think it's uh because
0:44:11.280,0:44:17.520
like 50 years ago when
0:44:14.960,0:44:18.160
you didn't uh you weren't able to have
0:44:17.520,0:44:21.280
kids
0:44:18.160,0:44:23.760
you adopt okay because that's the
0:44:21.280,0:44:24.640
was the way to have children if you
0:44:23.760,0:44:28.160
couldn't have them
0:44:24.640,0:44:32.480
on your own and and
0:44:28.160,0:44:35.119
if you look if you did lose a child
0:44:32.480,0:44:36.960
the hospital hospital told you the
0:44:35.119,0:44:40.640
doctors or the midwives or
0:44:36.960,0:44:40.640
whoever you met they told you to
0:44:40.720,0:44:44.880
just go home and start making another
0:44:43.520,0:44:48.240
child
0:44:44.880,0:44:49.760
forget about the child so people didn't
0:44:48.240,0:44:52.800
talk about it
0:44:49.760,0:44:55.839
it wasn't in sweden it wasn't until the
0:44:52.800,0:44:57.520
80s until you really started talking
0:44:55.839,0:45:01.040
about it
0:44:57.520,0:45:03.760
and as i told you the last time
0:45:01.040,0:45:05.280
my parents have the experience of losing
0:45:03.760,0:45:08.560
twins
0:45:05.280,0:45:10.480
and my father has
0:45:08.560,0:45:11.599
almost never talked about it but my
0:45:10.480,0:45:15.040
mother has
0:45:11.599,0:45:15.760
talked about it a couple of times so i
0:45:15.040,0:45:18.800
grew up
0:45:15.760,0:45:19.520
no knowing that i have the older
0:45:18.800,0:45:23.520
siblings
0:45:19.520,0:45:27.680
in heaven and i knew about them
0:45:23.520,0:45:29.680
but not much more than that because
0:45:27.680,0:45:32.000
my mother was supposed to just move
0:45:29.680,0:45:35.200
forward forget about twins and
0:45:32.000,0:45:36.160
have other children sure i think there's
0:45:35.200,0:45:38.640
examples of
0:45:36.160,0:45:40.480
um especially in britain we're seen as
0:45:38.640,0:45:42.720
quite a stuffy nation
0:45:40.480,0:45:43.520
uh we don't talk about sex we don't talk
0:45:42.720,0:45:46.079
about
0:45:43.520,0:45:46.880
death we don't talk about like feelings
0:45:46.079,0:45:49.280
feelings
0:45:46.880,0:45:50.160
or yeah we just kind of um the
0:45:49.280,0:45:52.960
traditional
0:45:50.160,0:45:53.359
view on that is keep it to yourself um
0:45:52.960,0:45:55.119
and
0:45:53.359,0:45:57.680
moan about it on facebook it seems to be
0:45:55.119,0:46:00.720
yeah stiff upper lip i think
0:45:57.680,0:46:04.240
that's difficult um
0:46:00.720,0:46:09.119
i assume it's come from
0:46:04.240,0:46:10.160
a social grace or like a set of social
0:46:09.119,0:46:13.440
rules that
0:46:10.160,0:46:16.640
came at that time that a better date now
0:46:13.440,0:46:17.200
and yep and obviously we've moved on a
0:46:16.640,0:46:21.359
lot even
0:46:17.200,0:46:24.880
even in even the last 10 years
0:46:21.359,0:46:26.720
like a lot has changed in psychology and
0:46:24.880,0:46:28.640
how we feel like we should treat even
0:46:26.720,0:46:30.720
children i can in britain at the moment
0:46:28.640,0:46:32.480
it's it's there's uh
0:46:30.720,0:46:34.480
you shouldn't uh hit your child you know
0:46:32.480,0:46:38.160
there shouldn't be any spanking or
0:46:34.480,0:46:40.720
smacking of the child um for
0:46:38.160,0:46:41.680
uh you know for like like a corporal
0:46:40.720,0:46:43.359
punishment thing
0:46:41.680,0:46:44.480
it's just been made illegal in scotland
0:46:43.359,0:46:45.839
yeah it's been a made illegal in
0:46:44.480,0:46:50.560
scotland
0:46:45.839,0:46:53.040
um so like they're moving forward in
0:46:50.560,0:46:54.839
in ways that probably even 10 years ago
0:46:53.040,0:46:58.000
people would have been like
0:46:54.839,0:47:00.640
what so i think as
0:46:58.000,0:47:02.800
as we move forward as as obviously
0:47:00.640,0:47:05.359
sweden as well as a different nation but
0:47:02.800,0:47:07.119
as as communities move forward and
0:47:05.359,0:47:08.880
people are more open about talking about
0:47:07.119,0:47:10.240
things and hopefully because of things
0:47:08.880,0:47:12.880
like what we're doing here where we're
0:47:10.240,0:47:14.960
having this open dialogue about
0:47:12.880,0:47:16.400
things that most people find difficult
0:47:14.960,0:47:18.160
to talk about or have
0:47:16.400,0:47:19.520
avoided talking about for whatever
0:47:18.160,0:47:22.640
reason whether it be
0:47:19.520,0:47:24.079
a stigma or because of some
0:47:22.640,0:47:25.839
other reason that's stopping them from
0:47:24.079,0:47:27.839
wanting to talk
0:47:25.839,0:47:29.520
um i'm not saying that this is going to
0:47:27.839,0:47:30.319
change our podcast is going to change
0:47:29.520,0:47:32.800
the world
0:47:30.319,0:47:34.400
at night but the fact the fact that
0:47:32.800,0:47:36.000
we're willing to do this
0:47:34.400,0:47:38.319
i think is a step forward in the right
0:47:36.000,0:47:40.720
direction and shows
0:47:38.319,0:47:41.760
that people do want to chat people do
0:47:40.720,0:47:43.440
want to talk
0:47:41.760,0:47:45.440
and we're starting to break down those
0:47:43.440,0:47:46.640
social barriers that caused us not to in
0:47:45.440,0:47:49.920
the first place
0:47:46.640,0:47:51.920
which are probably victorian rules or
0:47:49.920,0:47:53.359
something that's come from like a
0:47:51.920,0:47:55.680
historic
0:47:53.359,0:47:57.040
reason where we where we were scared to
0:47:55.680,0:47:59.760
talk and now
0:47:57.040,0:48:01.040
we're kind of promoted to talk it's it's
0:47:59.760,0:48:02.720
almost like a different revolution like
0:48:01.040,0:48:06.240
it's the talking revolution
0:48:02.720,0:48:08.079
it does feel like it's changed in two
0:48:06.240,0:48:09.680
words that way in fact almost now people
0:48:08.079,0:48:12.640
are too
0:48:09.680,0:48:15.200
open um it's going the wrong way cancel
0:48:12.640,0:48:16.960
the podcast
0:48:15.200,0:48:20.079
but seeing things like um tick tock
0:48:16.960,0:48:22.480
becoming like really prominent in in
0:48:20.079,0:48:23.440
in social media and people talking about
0:48:22.480,0:48:26.720
all of their
0:48:23.440,0:48:28.000
their personal lives on social media and
0:48:26.720,0:48:29.920
like social media has got a lot to
0:48:28.000,0:48:31.440
answer for i think in this setting where
0:48:29.920,0:48:33.040
it's in context
0:48:31.440,0:48:34.720
and people can understand and see the
0:48:33.040,0:48:37.280
whole story um
0:48:34.720,0:48:38.000
i think this is much more healthy than
0:48:37.280,0:48:41.520
like somebody
0:48:38.000,0:48:42.960
putting up a single sentence post on a
0:48:41.520,0:48:44.960
social media thing
0:48:42.960,0:48:46.400
looking for people to ask questions and
0:48:44.960,0:48:48.240
then letting little pieces of
0:48:46.400,0:48:50.079
information out one at a time
0:48:48.240,0:48:52.720
do you understand what i mean like this
0:48:50.079,0:48:53.760
is this feels like it's more natural and
0:48:52.720,0:48:56.880
more organic
0:48:53.760,0:48:58.480
and i hope that that
0:48:56.880,0:48:59.920
we continue in that trend that we're
0:48:58.480,0:49:03.040
open to talk to people
0:48:59.920,0:49:04.559
about things that once
0:49:03.040,0:49:06.079
they didn't want to talk about yeah and
0:49:04.559,0:49:07.920
it sounds like that you're saying that's
0:49:06.079,0:49:11.839
exactly what happened so
0:49:07.920,0:49:12.480
yeah but um your dads might want to talk
0:49:11.839,0:49:14.559
a bit more
0:49:12.480,0:49:15.520
in the future but i think that is a
0:49:14.559,0:49:17.040
generational
0:49:15.520,0:49:19.920
element to it ryan as you said i was
0:49:17.040,0:49:23.599
wondering teres
0:49:19.920,0:49:24.079
is it easier to talk to strangers like
0:49:23.599,0:49:27.280
us
0:49:24.079,0:49:30.319
than it is to people that you know
0:49:27.280,0:49:31.680
yeah it is why
0:49:30.319,0:49:34.000
i think i know the answer but what
0:49:31.680,0:49:37.200
you're going to say
0:49:34.000,0:49:40.559
well um we can take
0:49:37.200,0:49:44.319
my side of the family and since
0:49:40.559,0:49:46.079
my older sister did gave birth to her
0:49:44.319,0:49:49.440
baby
0:49:46.079,0:49:53.280
the week before neil was born
0:49:49.440,0:49:57.520
it's like my family focus
0:49:53.280,0:50:02.079
on that girl and
0:49:57.520,0:50:05.520
yeah they they ask us uh how it's going
0:50:02.079,0:50:08.400
i am am i pregnant again or
0:50:05.520,0:50:08.960
things like that questions that i have
0:50:08.400,0:50:11.200
told them
0:50:08.960,0:50:14.400
please don't ask because we will tell
0:50:11.200,0:50:17.920
you when we have something to tell you
0:50:14.400,0:50:21.520
uh so yeah they they don't ask us
0:50:17.920,0:50:23.440
anymore how we are coping have you been
0:50:21.520,0:50:26.480
to the memorial
0:50:23.440,0:50:30.000
ground or things like that
0:50:26.480,0:50:34.160
and so open up and
0:50:30.000,0:50:37.839
talk with you it's much easier because
0:50:34.160,0:50:41.200
you are not afraid to ask me questions
0:50:37.839,0:50:43.520
and that feels good it feels good to
0:50:41.200,0:50:45.599
get those questions and to answer them
0:50:43.520,0:50:48.800
and telling my story
0:50:45.599,0:50:52.240
and also the most important
0:50:48.800,0:50:55.839
if my story helps someone else
0:50:52.240,0:50:58.079
i have to share my story absolutely
0:50:55.839,0:50:59.520
i have a need to share my story to help
0:50:58.079,0:51:00.800
others
0:50:59.520,0:51:02.400
i think there's almost an element of
0:51:00.800,0:51:03.760
this that goes against ryan i don't know
0:51:02.400,0:51:04.559
if you agree it goes against our
0:51:03.760,0:51:07.839
britishness
0:51:04.559,0:51:09.520
where it almost feels
0:51:07.839,0:51:11.200
unnatural it's maybe too strong a word
0:51:09.520,0:51:14.240
but
0:51:11.200,0:51:15.760
as it's awkward it can be difficult to
0:51:14.240,0:51:18.880
ask those questions because
0:51:15.760,0:51:22.400
unless you know someone
0:51:18.880,0:51:24.400
as comfortable talking about this
0:51:22.400,0:51:26.240
like we know you are you you approached
0:51:24.400,0:51:27.359
us when we put the caller and said i
0:51:26.240,0:51:28.400
really want to do this as there are a
0:51:27.359,0:51:30.000
few others
0:51:28.400,0:51:31.520
yeah that but if it's again if it's
0:51:30.000,0:51:33.440
someone you know
0:51:31.520,0:51:34.800
unless you have a very good relationship
0:51:33.440,0:51:37.359
with them there's always that worry at
0:51:34.800,0:51:39.359
least in my mind that
0:51:37.359,0:51:41.119
this might open up the expression we
0:51:39.359,0:51:42.640
would use as a can of worms it might
0:51:41.119,0:51:44.400
start something that maybe
0:51:42.640,0:51:46.079
i might be ill-equipped to handle the
0:51:44.400,0:51:47.359
person who's been affected might be
0:51:46.079,0:51:50.480
ill-equipped to handle
0:51:47.359,0:51:51.359
and i wonder if that's a lot of the the
0:51:50.480,0:51:53.440
reason behind
0:51:51.359,0:51:54.720
people not having this conversation is
0:51:53.440,0:51:57.280
genuine fear of
0:51:54.720,0:51:59.440
what's going to happen it's consequences
0:51:57.280,0:52:01.520
i would say it's to do with consequences
0:51:59.440,0:52:03.440
you're scared of damaging a relationship
0:52:01.520,0:52:04.800
you're a lot more scared of
0:52:03.440,0:52:06.800
especially if you got to see somebody
0:52:04.800,0:52:09.200
regularly it's probably easier to speak
0:52:06.800,0:52:11.200
to people you're more estranged with
0:52:09.200,0:52:13.359
even in your own family than would be to
0:52:11.200,0:52:15.040
speak to somebody you see every day
0:52:13.359,0:52:16.960
just for the reason that you have to see
0:52:15.040,0:52:18.640
that person again look them in the eyes
0:52:16.960,0:52:21.280
and if you've made a mistake and asking
0:52:18.640,0:52:24.880
something that's offensive or
0:52:21.280,0:52:27.200
not or just really really deep
0:52:24.880,0:52:28.319
um to a point that they now know that
0:52:27.200,0:52:30.720
you know that
0:52:28.319,0:52:32.160
um it's sometimes difficult it's a shame
0:52:30.720,0:52:35.440
thing i think it's shame
0:52:32.160,0:52:36.720
that's built in to that getting that
0:52:35.440,0:52:39.440
stiff upper lip here
0:52:36.720,0:52:41.520
definitely in britain anyway oh yeah um
0:52:39.440,0:52:44.559
but
0:52:41.520,0:52:46.000
again hopefully um people become more
0:52:44.559,0:52:47.680
open and honest to each other because
0:52:46.000,0:52:49.440
you just if you can if we can be more
0:52:47.680,0:52:50.800
honest with each other about what we are
0:52:49.440,0:52:52.640
actually thinking
0:52:50.800,0:52:54.000
and rather than people making
0:52:52.640,0:52:54.880
assumptions all the time of how you
0:52:54.000,0:52:56.800
might react
0:52:54.880,0:52:57.920
then hopefully we can talk to people
0:52:56.800,0:52:59.839
closer to us
0:52:57.920,0:53:01.440
in a more open fashion paul and i have
0:52:59.839,0:53:02.720
got quite a good working relationship
0:53:01.440,0:53:04.800
that way that
0:53:02.720,0:53:06.559
if we speak about something we'll be
0:53:04.800,0:53:08.079
open and honest about it and not try
0:53:06.559,0:53:10.400
and not be worried about offending each
0:53:08.079,0:53:12.960
other um
0:53:10.400,0:53:15.040
and but yet like we still have this
0:53:12.960,0:53:16.800
probably still i don't know if you think
0:53:15.040,0:53:18.480
the simple but you've just chatting
0:53:16.800,0:53:20.880
sometimes do you think that sometimes we
0:53:18.480,0:53:23.680
you would we reword something
0:53:20.880,0:53:24.800
to make sure that oh yeah oh yeah yeah
0:53:23.680,0:53:27.200
yeah just
0:53:24.800,0:53:28.640
yeah i think it's almost the case of
0:53:27.200,0:53:31.040
knowing your audience
0:53:28.640,0:53:32.079
there's there's things i would say to
0:53:31.040,0:53:35.920
someone that
0:53:32.079,0:53:37.520
i wouldn't say to someone else because
0:53:35.920,0:53:40.079
i would worry about how they might take
0:53:37.520,0:53:41.520
it and that's not
0:53:40.079,0:53:43.680
you know that's that's some sort of
0:53:41.520,0:53:44.319
everyday normal conversations if that's
0:53:43.680,0:53:46.640
the right way of
0:53:44.319,0:53:48.400
saying it whereas with something as when
0:53:46.640,0:53:49.359
you when you magnify the stakes i
0:53:48.400,0:53:50.480
suppose if that's the right way we're
0:53:49.359,0:53:52.079
putting when you're talking about
0:53:50.480,0:53:54.559
something as
0:53:52.079,0:53:56.720
emotive as everything you've been saying
0:53:54.559,0:53:58.640
to us tonight to this
0:53:56.720,0:54:00.480
then yeah as it's it's no wonder i don't
0:53:58.640,0:54:04.960
blame people for
0:54:00.480,0:54:04.960
for avoiding do you terrorists do you
0:54:05.680,0:54:09.520
does it annoy you does it frustrate you
0:54:07.920,0:54:12.000
that people
0:54:09.520,0:54:14.000
you your closest members of your family
0:54:12.000,0:54:16.720
don't ask you these questions or
0:54:14.000,0:54:17.760
do you know deep down that they want to
0:54:16.720,0:54:20.960
but they can't or
0:54:17.760,0:54:24.720
where are you in your head with that
0:54:20.960,0:54:28.160
i am pretty annoyed okay
0:54:24.720,0:54:31.359
my mother-in-law she goes to
0:54:28.160,0:54:36.480
the memorial ground on a regular basis
0:54:31.359,0:54:39.200
to put flowers and to visit mira
0:54:36.480,0:54:40.240
my older sister she hasn't even been
0:54:39.200,0:54:42.880
there
0:54:40.240,0:54:44.400
and that is really frustrating because i
0:54:42.880,0:54:47.599
asked her to
0:54:44.400,0:54:49.280
please let me know when you're going our
0:54:47.599,0:54:51.920
direction
0:54:49.280,0:54:53.440
so we can go there and i can let you see
0:54:51.920,0:54:56.400
where she is
0:54:53.440,0:54:57.599
but she it's been almost three years now
0:54:56.400,0:55:01.280
and she hasn't
0:54:57.599,0:55:02.640
said that how what do you say can we go
0:55:01.280,0:55:05.520
there now
0:55:02.640,0:55:06.160
will you show me so that's uh
0:55:05.520,0:55:10.880
frustrating
0:55:06.160,0:55:10.880
for me because uh i don't want to
0:55:11.280,0:55:18.799
tell her this um every now and then
0:55:14.720,0:55:21.839
yeah so it feels wrong to do that
0:55:18.799,0:55:23.440
yeah i i feel that it must it must come
0:55:21.839,0:55:25.359
from her
0:55:23.440,0:55:27.680
could could it be that she's she's not
0:55:25.359,0:55:30.079
ready yet she's
0:55:27.680,0:55:31.359
she's not emotionally in a place where
0:55:30.079,0:55:35.040
she can i don't know i've obviously
0:55:31.359,0:55:39.119
never met her i don't know
0:55:35.040,0:55:42.960
uh some things we can talk about
0:55:39.119,0:55:47.200
and some things we can't talk about so
0:55:42.960,0:55:50.240
um i chose to not ask her about this
0:55:47.200,0:55:54.480
i choose to let her come to me when
0:55:50.240,0:55:57.440
she's ready and i hope that i have
0:55:54.480,0:55:58.400
spoken openly enough to let her know
0:55:57.440,0:56:01.520
that
0:55:58.400,0:56:04.799
she can come with any questions you have
0:56:01.520,0:56:08.720
because i want to talk about amira and
0:56:04.799,0:56:10.319
uh about this and i i am sure that she
0:56:08.720,0:56:13.040
knows that
0:56:10.319,0:56:14.480
and i am sure that the rest of my family
0:56:13.040,0:56:17.200
knows that
0:56:14.480,0:56:18.000
it might be a denial thing um obviously
0:56:17.200,0:56:22.079
i haven't met
0:56:18.000,0:56:24.880
your sister either um but really yeah
0:56:22.079,0:56:26.079
well i might have i don't know if that's
0:56:24.880,0:56:29.200
good of course
0:56:26.079,0:56:30.880
who knows um not consciously have met
0:56:29.200,0:56:34.559
your sister
0:56:30.880,0:56:36.240
i'm not aware of it um but i do know how
0:56:34.559,0:56:39.040
i've dealt with things in the past
0:56:36.240,0:56:41.440
um i spoke briefly about my mum and her
0:56:39.040,0:56:44.319
situation than the last time we spoke
0:56:41.440,0:56:45.440
um and i don't generally talk to my mom
0:56:44.319,0:56:47.440
about it
0:56:45.440,0:56:48.630
and it's listening to you i'm kind of
0:56:47.440,0:56:50.240
like maybe i should
0:56:48.630,0:56:53.200
[Music]
0:56:50.240,0:56:54.799
but because of how it makes me feel
0:56:53.200,0:56:57.839
because i feel sad about it
0:56:54.799,0:56:58.880
so i'm i'm just like i'd rather not talk
0:56:57.839,0:57:01.920
about it
0:56:58.880,0:57:04.160
easier not to um and then obviously i
0:57:01.920,0:57:06.000
i wonder if i'm risking upsetting her
0:57:04.160,0:57:07.839
and then that would in turn upset me
0:57:06.000,0:57:11.599
even more because
0:57:07.839,0:57:12.000
i i've not only have i upset myself but
0:57:11.599,0:57:14.480
i've now
0:57:12.000,0:57:15.599
upset somebody else with that question
0:57:14.480,0:57:18.720
about
0:57:15.599,0:57:20.960
you know yeah so um it's a minefield
0:57:18.720,0:57:22.880
well that's been well over a decade and
0:57:20.960,0:57:24.960
that's still the relationship of that
0:57:22.880,0:57:26.000
that's that conversational thing and
0:57:24.960,0:57:29.599
then here i am speaking
0:57:26.000,0:57:31.839
to you openly about all these things so
0:57:29.599,0:57:33.119
um i think i've just proven everything
0:57:31.839,0:57:35.359
we just talked about in the last 15
0:57:33.119,0:57:35.359
minutes
0:57:38.640,0:57:46.640
what you could do is um ask her
0:57:43.200,0:57:50.079
if it's okay uh to
0:57:46.640,0:57:52.160
bring this up with her and
0:57:50.079,0:57:54.480
tell her that if she doesn't want to
0:57:52.160,0:57:58.160
talk about it it's okay and she can
0:57:54.480,0:58:00.720
tell you yeah and ask her that
0:57:58.160,0:58:01.440
when you're ready will you let me know
0:58:00.720,0:58:04.000
more
0:58:01.440,0:58:05.920
would you like to talk with me about
0:58:04.000,0:58:08.160
this because uh
0:58:05.920,0:58:10.160
um if you want to talk with me about
0:58:08.160,0:58:12.720
this then i am here to listen
0:58:10.160,0:58:13.839
uh to you because i think that you would
0:58:12.720,0:58:15.760
love that
0:58:13.839,0:58:17.680
yeah my mom's quite spiritual and the
0:58:15.760,0:58:20.000
fact that she
0:58:17.680,0:58:21.599
she believes that she is obviously
0:58:20.000,0:58:23.200
looking down and she's with us all the
0:58:21.599,0:58:26.319
time that kind of thing
0:58:23.200,0:58:27.760
and um she's quite open about speaking
0:58:26.319,0:58:29.760
about these things
0:58:27.760,0:58:32.000
i think it's probably me i think i'm the
0:58:29.760,0:58:33.839
problem
0:58:32.000,0:58:35.920
she would happily probably speak about
0:58:33.839,0:58:38.000
these things and my fear would probably
0:58:35.920,0:58:40.720
just disappear if i opened up a bit more
0:58:38.000,0:58:40.720
about it with her
0:58:40.960,0:58:45.119
but also i was quite involved at the
0:58:42.880,0:58:46.799
time and i'm almost like i have the
0:58:45.119,0:58:50.400
information
0:58:46.799,0:58:51.200
i know how that was and what happened i
0:58:50.400,0:58:52.720
just
0:58:51.200,0:58:54.000
so i don't feel like i i almost feel
0:58:52.720,0:58:56.319
like i don't need to ask her these
0:58:54.000,0:58:59.359
questions because i know the answers
0:58:56.319,0:59:01.760
um but again that's not helping the
0:58:59.359,0:59:03.440
the two-way flow of conversation is it
0:59:01.760,0:59:05.839
this but maybe that's what your sister's
0:59:03.440,0:59:09.200
doing maybe she's like i know the answer
0:59:05.839,0:59:10.640
so i don't want to ask the question and
0:59:09.200,0:59:12.319
again i have not met your sister so i
0:59:10.640,0:59:13.280
don't know if that's true not
0:59:12.319,0:59:16.839
consciously
0:59:13.280,0:59:19.839
not conscious or unconsciously maybe
0:59:16.839,0:59:19.839
unconsciously
0:59:21.440,0:59:26.640
um yeah i do i see the difficulty
0:59:24.720,0:59:29.680
because i've i've experienced it
0:59:26.640,0:59:30.400
um as probably the same kind of level as
0:59:29.680,0:59:34.000
your sister
0:59:30.400,0:59:34.880
is experiencing it and so i wonder if
0:59:34.000,0:59:38.400
that's
0:59:34.880,0:59:38.960
if it's just that fear of just opening
0:59:38.400,0:59:42.319
that all
0:59:38.960,0:59:44.079
the wounds up again or people are
0:59:42.319,0:59:46.240
involved in their own lives quite
0:59:44.079,0:59:47.280
selfishly as well like they've got their
0:59:46.240,0:59:50.799
own stuff going on
0:59:47.280,0:59:52.480
and sometimes it's easier just not to
0:59:50.799,0:59:55.040
ask the question
0:59:52.480,0:59:55.760
i'm not saying that's right in any way
0:59:55.040,0:59:58.559
but
0:59:55.760,0:59:58.559
sometimes it is
0:59:58.960,1:00:03.680
what do you think well i have to say
1:00:01.920,1:00:07.440
thank you because uh
1:00:03.680,1:00:10.720
now i have this uh other view of this
1:00:07.440,1:00:11.760
maybe i should ask my sister would you
1:00:10.720,1:00:14.960
like to
1:00:11.760,1:00:16.799
come with us uh maybe in summer when
1:00:14.960,1:00:19.200
it's warm and the nice weather and
1:00:16.799,1:00:21.119
all that make it a positive experience
1:00:19.200,1:00:22.559
for her rather than making her feel like
1:00:21.119,1:00:26.000
it's a negative thing
1:00:22.559,1:00:27.280
an obligation almost yeah if she feels
1:00:26.000,1:00:28.400
like it's an obligation she might not
1:00:27.280,1:00:30.319
want to do it but if
1:00:28.400,1:00:32.079
she if you're including her as part of
1:00:30.319,1:00:35.200
maybe a celebration of
1:00:32.079,1:00:37.680
mira's existence yeah um i
1:00:35.200,1:00:38.799
i don't know what the answer is i'm just
1:00:37.680,1:00:40.799
i can only tell you
1:00:38.799,1:00:43.599
how it has been for me obviously my
1:00:40.799,1:00:45.359
mom's 5000 miles away so i can't
1:00:43.599,1:00:46.799
just jump over there and give her a hug
1:00:45.359,1:00:48.480
and hope that
1:00:46.799,1:00:50.640
we can chat about this stuff so it's
1:00:48.480,1:00:53.680
more like this you know screen to screen
1:00:50.640,1:00:54.640
sure um and
1:00:53.680,1:00:56.000
i feel like if i'm going to have that
1:00:54.640,1:00:57.440
conversation i'd like to be there in
1:00:56.000,1:01:00.480
person yeah and
1:00:57.440,1:01:03.599
um yeah and also where
1:01:00.480,1:01:06.799
um the kind of
1:01:03.599,1:01:08.839
the burial ground or the place that my
1:01:06.799,1:01:11.200
sister is
1:01:08.839,1:01:11.680
is quite far away from where my mom
1:01:11.200,1:01:14.799
lives
1:01:11.680,1:01:15.200
she's in florida and where she she had
1:01:14.799,1:01:18.319
that
1:01:15.200,1:01:22.839
that cemetery is upstate new york
1:01:18.319,1:01:25.760
so it's the other end of america so it's
1:01:22.839,1:01:26.319
literally like thousands of miles away
1:01:25.760,1:01:28.720
from her
1:01:26.319,1:01:30.079
so she's as far away from that place as
1:01:28.720,1:01:33.359
i am yeah
1:01:30.079,1:01:35.680
amazingly amazingly yeah yeah
1:01:33.359,1:01:36.960
so she's it's not like she can just nip
1:01:35.680,1:01:40.160
in the car and go out and
1:01:36.960,1:01:41.440
and visit the gravesite either so it
1:01:40.160,1:01:43.599
it's
1:01:41.440,1:01:44.640
it's it's a it's a strange one in that
1:01:43.599,1:01:46.880
respect
1:01:44.640,1:01:48.079
but i i hope me sharing with you has
1:01:46.880,1:01:52.880
helped
1:01:48.079,1:01:55.520
in some way i don't know sounds like as
1:01:52.880,1:01:56.559
yeah i i have to say thank you for
1:01:55.520,1:02:00.000
sharing that uh
1:01:56.559,1:02:03.680
from your perspective me too
1:02:00.000,1:02:07.119
it's really comfortable to hear that
1:02:03.680,1:02:09.520
side because it helps me now i think i
1:02:07.119,1:02:09.520
feel that
1:02:10.079,1:02:13.440
yeah because i would hate that like just
1:02:11.920,1:02:16.559
hearing how you feel like you you're
1:02:13.440,1:02:18.160
saying you were you were annoyed almost
1:02:16.559,1:02:20.160
i hope my mom's not annoyed with me for
1:02:18.160,1:02:20.960
not having that conversation does make
1:02:20.160,1:02:22.400
you reflect
1:02:20.960,1:02:24.319
conversations like this of course it
1:02:22.400,1:02:24.640
does yeah and that i love that we do
1:02:24.319,1:02:27.440
this
1:02:24.640,1:02:28.240
and that we are doing this and again
1:02:27.440,1:02:30.960
that you've
1:02:28.240,1:02:31.839
you've come on here uh to to share your

1 hr 30 min
February 01, 2021 Letrozole Conception - Up to Birth
Therese has difficulty conceiving and turned to IVF to help. Her heart-wrenching pregnancy journey includes her taking a triple dose of letrozole without anyone knowing, her suffering from pre-eclampsia and her baby being born with Edwards' Syndrome (Trisomy 18).

Transcript:----more----
0:00:00.240,0:00:05.759
this was something i did without the
0:00:02.560,0:00:08.720
doctors knowing so i kept it a secret
0:00:05.759,0:00:10.719
even for my own husband i was telling
0:00:08.720,0:00:14.639
lies to my family
0:00:10.719,0:00:17.920
to my husband and i started to lie
0:00:14.639,0:00:17.920
to my midwife
0:00:24.480,0:00:29.199
hello welcome to the show this is life
0:00:27.119,0:00:30.160
is it just me the podcast and youtube
0:00:29.199,0:00:31.599
series as it now
0:00:30.160,0:00:33.600
transpires i'm going to put that into my
0:00:31.599,0:00:34.079
camera i've decided we're here to talk
0:00:33.600,0:00:36.559
about
0:00:34.079,0:00:37.360
the big issues the big topics the big
0:00:36.559,0:00:39.520
things that
0:00:37.360,0:00:42.079
most of us all of us are affected by and
0:00:39.520,0:00:43.760
go through and life this first season
0:00:42.079,0:00:46.320
is all about the decision as to whether
0:00:43.760,0:00:49.039
to have kids ryan i have spoken to
0:00:46.320,0:00:50.000
a huge amount of very guests so many
0:00:49.039,0:00:51.920
interesting stories
0:00:50.000,0:00:53.280
and we've got another one for you today
0:00:51.920,0:00:56.719
we're joined by teres
0:00:53.280,0:00:59.520
hi teres hello how are you
0:00:56.719,0:00:59.840
i am fine thanks and how are you really
0:00:59.520,0:01:02.960
good
0:00:59.840,0:01:04.080
really good and ryan how are you i'm
0:01:02.960,0:01:06.400
very good thanks paul
0:01:04.080,0:01:07.920
yourself what's going on with you today
0:01:06.400,0:01:10.240
good i'm just i'm really excited
0:01:07.920,0:01:11.200
to be here just to talk about what we're
0:01:10.240,0:01:13.920
going to talk about it's
0:01:11.200,0:01:15.520
such a it's an amazing insight that
0:01:13.920,0:01:16.320
people we've never met before are giving
0:01:15.520,0:01:20.320
us into the life
0:01:16.320,0:01:23.439
i'm so grateful yeah i feel grateful too
0:01:20.320,0:01:25.840
yeah thank you for that yeah and
0:01:23.439,0:01:26.560
i am really excited to be joining you
0:01:25.840,0:01:29.920
and i am
0:01:26.560,0:01:32.159
also grateful to telling my story to
0:01:29.920,0:01:33.759
let people know how it can be that's
0:01:32.159,0:01:36.079
exactly what we want we try we're trying
0:01:33.759,0:01:38.479
to provide a forum for people who
0:01:36.079,0:01:39.360
who want to talk about their their
0:01:38.479,0:01:42.399
perspective
0:01:39.360,0:01:43.840
on life and to to explain it's not just
0:01:42.399,0:01:47.119
us it's not just me
0:01:43.840,0:01:48.079
so yeah this is it this is it set the
0:01:47.119,0:01:50.479
scene then tell us
0:01:48.079,0:01:51.119
about who you are where do you come from
0:01:50.479,0:01:54.799
yeah
0:01:51.119,0:01:56.960
uh like you say my name is tirias and i
0:01:54.799,0:02:00.719
live in sweden
0:01:56.960,0:02:05.119
i am 33 years old today
0:02:00.719,0:02:09.119
i met my husband in 2007
0:02:05.119,0:02:11.680
and i just turned 20 after we met
0:02:09.119,0:02:13.200
so we have been together for 13 years
0:02:11.680,0:02:17.599
and we have been married for
0:02:13.200,0:02:20.720
six years this year and
0:02:17.599,0:02:24.080
really early on i told him that
0:02:20.720,0:02:27.360
my dream was to have children one day
0:02:24.080,0:02:28.720
and he was fine with that so we jumped
0:02:27.360,0:02:33.760
into the relationship
0:02:28.720,0:02:37.599
really fast and here we are now
0:02:33.760,0:02:40.560
many years later still trying for a kid
0:02:37.599,0:02:41.360
and his name is joachim so you know that
0:02:40.560,0:02:43.519
yes
0:02:41.360,0:02:44.720
um it's interesting you spoke about
0:02:43.519,0:02:45.519
getting into a relationship quite
0:02:44.720,0:02:47.519
quickly i
0:02:45.519,0:02:49.680
did the exact same thing with my partner
0:02:47.519,0:02:50.000
lauren we were very very quick to get
0:02:49.680,0:02:51.440
together
0:02:50.000,0:02:53.760
ryan what about you and your partner i'm
0:02:51.440,0:02:55.680
not sure your wife a similar story yeah
0:02:53.760,0:02:58.239
we met doing musical theater
0:02:55.680,0:03:00.640
which was different in itself um and we
0:02:58.239,0:03:03.120
were opposite parts in the same play
0:03:00.640,0:03:03.920
um carousel was a musical in case you
0:03:03.120,0:03:06.640
care
0:03:03.920,0:03:07.360
um but we were we were opposite parts in
0:03:06.640,0:03:10.000
carousel
0:03:07.360,0:03:11.360
so what happened was uh we were meant to
0:03:10.000,0:03:13.519
be love interest in the show
0:03:11.360,0:03:15.280
and became love interest in real life no
0:03:13.519,0:03:17.120
way is that
0:03:15.280,0:03:19.120
fascinating well we've all got some sort
0:03:17.120,0:03:22.720
of similar similar background
0:03:19.120,0:03:24.720
teres you spoke earlier about
0:03:22.720,0:03:26.080
wanting children you described it to me
0:03:24.720,0:03:30.720
before we came on air
0:03:26.080,0:03:30.720
as being a lifelong dream
0:03:30.840,0:03:36.239
yes um since i've been
0:03:32.959,0:03:38.879
like six years old i knew that i wanted
0:03:36.239,0:03:41.680
to have a family of my own
0:03:38.879,0:03:42.319
um i have three siblings one older
0:03:41.680,0:03:45.440
sister
0:03:42.319,0:03:46.879
one younger and one younger brother so i
0:03:45.440,0:03:50.080
pretty early knew that i
0:03:46.879,0:03:53.680
didn't want four kids myself but
0:03:50.080,0:03:56.879
two maybe three that sounded good
0:03:53.680,0:04:00.159
for me so that was what i decided at
0:03:56.879,0:04:00.799
six years old and also that i wanted to
0:04:00.159,0:04:03.760
have kids
0:04:00.799,0:04:04.080
pretty young uh at 23 i was thinking
0:04:03.760,0:04:07.200
that
0:04:04.080,0:04:08.080
that is a good issue okay a couple of
0:04:07.200,0:04:11.599
questions
0:04:08.080,0:04:14.000
one why 23 and two
0:04:11.599,0:04:15.920
what do you think sort of from the age
0:04:14.000,0:04:19.120
of six year old made you think yeah
0:04:15.920,0:04:22.240
i wouldn't have my own family
0:04:19.120,0:04:26.160
um well at
0:04:22.240,0:04:29.520
six years old i didn't grasp
0:04:26.160,0:04:32.160
when you were adult i knew that you were
0:04:29.520,0:04:33.759
supposed to be like 18 or 20 something
0:04:32.160,0:04:36.960
like that so
0:04:33.759,0:04:38.400
uh i thought that 23 then you are old
0:04:36.960,0:04:41.040
enough to have kids
0:04:38.400,0:04:41.680
of your own to get married to move away
0:04:41.040,0:04:44.560
from
0:04:41.680,0:04:45.040
your mother father and stuff like that
0:04:44.560,0:04:47.840
okay
0:04:45.040,0:04:48.880
yeah i'm sorry what was the other part
0:04:47.840,0:04:51.840
of the question
0:04:48.880,0:04:52.720
i was asking you said from about six
0:04:51.840,0:04:55.360
years old
0:04:52.720,0:04:56.240
you knew you wanted to have your own
0:04:55.360,0:04:57.680
children
0:04:56.240,0:05:00.080
and that's quite young i was wondering
0:04:57.680,0:05:01.280
what it was at that age or around that
0:05:00.080,0:05:03.759
age that made you think
0:05:01.280,0:05:05.919
oh wow this is and it stuck this is what
0:05:03.759,0:05:09.280
you wanted to do
0:05:05.919,0:05:12.720
oh i can't really
0:05:09.280,0:05:14.880
tell because it just was something that
0:05:12.720,0:05:15.840
i kept with me all the time i have
0:05:14.880,0:05:18.639
always
0:05:15.840,0:05:19.680
loved babies and children and that's one
0:05:18.639,0:05:22.800
of the reason that
0:05:19.680,0:05:25.440
i became a preschool teacher because
0:05:22.800,0:05:26.080
working with young kids from age one to
0:05:25.440,0:05:29.280
five
0:05:26.080,0:05:31.440
it's really exciting and funny
0:05:29.280,0:05:33.520
and to see the sparkle in their their
0:05:31.440,0:05:35.680
eyes when they learn stuff
0:05:33.520,0:05:36.720
that was really important for me from a
0:05:35.680,0:05:39.360
young age too
0:05:36.720,0:05:40.000
and when i was six years old and that
0:05:39.360,0:05:43.199
was when
0:05:40.000,0:05:46.720
my baby brother came so
0:05:43.199,0:05:50.240
maybe it's a part of that that i
0:05:46.720,0:05:51.600
did see him coming yeah possibly
0:05:50.240,0:05:53.039
it's funny you say that you're a
0:05:51.600,0:05:55.280
preschool teacher and you love seeing
0:05:53.039,0:05:57.199
the sparkle in children's eyes when they
0:05:55.280,0:05:59.759
when they learn as a secondary school
0:05:57.199,0:06:01.520
teacher i would love to see the sparkle
0:05:59.759,0:06:04.400
in their eyes it's not happening i must
0:06:01.520,0:06:04.400
have done something wrong
0:06:05.039,0:06:08.160
um it's funny we spoke before about
0:06:06.960,0:06:09.520
about this and ryan
0:06:08.160,0:06:11.840
you've said on previous episodes that
0:06:09.520,0:06:14.080
you have a couple of children yourself
0:06:11.840,0:06:15.280
i don't did you ever go through
0:06:14.080,0:06:18.400
something similar
0:06:15.280,0:06:19.680
as as a child i suppose or as a teenager
0:06:18.400,0:06:20.960
where you thought
0:06:19.680,0:06:23.600
yeah i want to do this or is that
0:06:20.960,0:06:24.720
something that's not um
0:06:23.600,0:06:27.840
yeah i think i've kind of touched on
0:06:24.720,0:06:30.960
this before but um
0:06:27.840,0:06:34.240
for this episode basically um
0:06:30.960,0:06:34.560
my kids i i'd already said from a long
0:06:34.240,0:06:36.080
time
0:06:34.560,0:06:38.800
that i wanted to be the cool uncle i
0:06:36.080,0:06:40.560
didn't really want to be the dad
0:06:38.800,0:06:41.840
um there was a there was a period
0:06:40.560,0:06:42.400
probably when i was a bit younger maybe
0:06:41.840,0:06:45.360
between
0:06:42.400,0:06:46.720
10 and 13 where i thought oh you know
0:06:45.360,0:06:48.639
when i grew up i could be a really i'd
0:06:46.720,0:06:50.720
be a really good dad i'd be really
0:06:48.639,0:06:52.720
i'd be awesome at that like to think
0:06:50.720,0:06:55.680
that i'd be a cool dad
0:06:52.720,0:06:57.360
um and then probably in that kind of
0:06:55.680,0:06:58.400
period where my teenage years were
0:06:57.360,0:07:01.520
starting to
0:06:58.400,0:07:03.280
explore my my own life and becoming and
0:07:01.520,0:07:04.800
that that that kind of developmental
0:07:03.280,0:07:06.639
period of my life
0:07:04.800,0:07:08.000
um i think there was a bit in there
0:07:06.639,0:07:10.000
where i'm just like no no
0:07:08.000,0:07:12.160
no no no no no no i'll be the cool uncle
0:07:10.000,0:07:13.280
my sister can have all the kids and uh
0:07:12.160,0:07:15.360
and that way i get the best of both
0:07:13.280,0:07:16.400
worlds i get to play and i get to walk
0:07:15.360,0:07:20.080
away
0:07:16.400,0:07:21.280
um so there was probably in that period
0:07:20.080,0:07:22.960
i could probably pinpoint
0:07:21.280,0:07:24.960
where probably about 18 or something i
0:07:22.960,0:07:25.840
thought you know i'd like to do this but
0:07:24.960,0:07:28.960
i'll wait
0:07:25.840,0:07:32.000
um and then i was
0:07:28.960,0:07:34.240
very much in that mindset probably about
0:07:32.000,0:07:35.120
another 10 years and then i met my wife
0:07:34.240,0:07:36.960
and
0:07:35.120,0:07:38.319
i was like yeah i'm ready now ready for
0:07:36.960,0:07:41.440
kids so
0:07:38.319,0:07:42.880
okay yeah some similarities in some
0:07:41.440,0:07:43.759
differences and again i've spoken before
0:07:42.880,0:07:46.080
but just
0:07:43.759,0:07:47.520
in case it's the first time hearing it i
0:07:46.080,0:07:51.360
sort of at that stage now
0:07:47.520,0:07:52.879
28 almost almost 29 and um
0:07:51.360,0:07:54.879
still don't know what to do i'm in that
0:07:52.879,0:07:56.560
sort of quandary well i won't i and
0:07:54.879,0:07:58.879
just thinking about what you said um
0:07:56.560,0:08:00.160
today it's about
0:07:58.879,0:08:02.639
knowing from a young age i don't think
0:08:00.160,0:08:06.080
i've ever had that sort of
0:08:02.639,0:08:09.360
yes i i'm sure about this
0:08:06.080,0:08:11.280
i would also would never say that really
0:08:09.360,0:08:12.960
at any point in my life have i ever been
0:08:11.280,0:08:14.720
fully convinced that i won't i've
0:08:12.960,0:08:16.560
always sort of just kind of gone through
0:08:14.720,0:08:17.120
life in a bit like yeah maybe maybe
0:08:16.560,0:08:18.720
maybe
0:08:17.120,0:08:20.720
and now it feels a bit like the clock is
0:08:18.720,0:08:22.720
ticking the biological clock is
0:08:20.720,0:08:25.360
uh i'm aware of it ticking it's becoming
0:08:22.720,0:08:27.840
louder in the back of my head
0:08:25.360,0:08:29.680
and that's sort of where i am so yeah
0:08:27.840,0:08:33.120
just setting the scene i guess for
0:08:29.680,0:08:36.240
for all of us um but teres you
0:08:33.120,0:08:39.440
safe to say that achieving this
0:08:36.240,0:08:43.760
lifelong dream hasn't been easy
0:08:39.440,0:08:47.959
no i started to study
0:08:43.760,0:08:51.200
for my preschool teacher education in
0:08:47.959,0:08:55.120
2009 and i was finished
0:08:51.200,0:08:58.000
2014 in january and that was around the
0:08:55.120,0:09:00.080
time i told my husband that
0:08:58.000,0:09:01.040
now i think it's the time to start a
0:09:00.080,0:09:04.800
family because
0:09:01.040,0:09:05.360
i'm getting older i'm closing up to 30
0:09:04.800,0:09:08.080
so
0:09:05.360,0:09:08.880
i really want to try now and i know want
0:09:08.080,0:09:12.320
to know if
0:09:08.880,0:09:13.120
you want this with me or not and and he
0:09:12.320,0:09:16.160
said
0:09:13.120,0:09:19.440
to me that well i am ready now
0:09:16.160,0:09:22.480
so let's try so we started trying
0:09:19.440,0:09:23.279
and and i got off the pills of course
0:09:22.480,0:09:28.160
because i've
0:09:23.279,0:09:31.600
taken those but my period never came
0:09:28.160,0:09:34.240
so that's when
0:09:31.600,0:09:35.440
it had been like six months or something
0:09:34.240,0:09:39.279
like that i
0:09:35.440,0:09:41.920
called the doctors and asked them to
0:09:39.279,0:09:43.680
look into me what the wrong way are
0:09:41.920,0:09:44.880
aren't i having my period after i was
0:09:43.680,0:09:48.240
starting
0:09:44.880,0:09:52.399
stopping with the pills and
0:09:48.240,0:09:54.720
that's when i learned that i got pcos
0:09:52.399,0:09:56.720
and that it would be difficult for me to
0:09:54.720,0:09:59.519
get pregnant
0:09:56.720,0:10:00.000
and here in sweden when you are pretty
0:09:59.519,0:10:04.000
young
0:10:00.000,0:10:08.720
and healthy you need to wait 12 months
0:10:04.000,0:10:11.760
before you get help from the doctors
0:10:08.720,0:10:15.040
so i was told to wait till
0:10:11.760,0:10:19.600
january in 2015 and then i could
0:10:15.040,0:10:21.519
call them and that's when the the whole
0:10:19.600,0:10:22.720
everything started with that all the
0:10:21.519,0:10:25.360
tries um
0:10:22.720,0:10:26.800
with the difficult different uh
0:10:25.360,0:10:31.120
medications and stuff
0:10:26.800,0:10:35.440
uh and of the a year in 2016
0:10:31.120,0:10:37.680
which started with ios okay
0:10:35.440,0:10:39.680
just just to clarify foreign pcos
0:10:37.680,0:10:42.079
polycystic ovary syndrome
0:10:39.680,0:10:43.200
it's still possible to get pregnant and
0:10:42.079,0:10:46.240
to have periods
0:10:43.200,0:10:48.480
with this but in your case um that's
0:10:46.240,0:10:52.959
very much not been the case
0:10:48.480,0:10:56.240
yes and having spoken to you before
0:10:52.959,0:10:59.200
you seem to be fairly confident
0:10:56.240,0:11:00.800
that the pill or the mini pill i guess
0:10:59.200,0:11:04.000
which is the
0:11:00.800,0:11:04.959
conception you were taking is at least
0:11:04.000,0:11:08.480
partially if not
0:11:04.959,0:11:11.760
fully to blame for being unable to
0:11:08.480,0:11:14.959
ovulate is that fair to say yes
0:11:11.760,0:11:15.440
i think so no one has confirmed this for
0:11:14.959,0:11:18.560
me
0:11:15.440,0:11:21.120
this is my own thinking but the thing is
0:11:18.560,0:11:24.399
i started with the pills when i was 18
0:11:21.120,0:11:28.240
and i briefly stopped in a
0:11:24.399,0:11:30.640
period in my 20s and
0:11:28.240,0:11:31.760
just to see what was happening when i
0:11:30.640,0:11:35.040
stopped with them
0:11:31.760,0:11:35.760
and nothing happened and i didn't get my
0:11:35.040,0:11:38.959
period
0:11:35.760,0:11:40.800
even then and i was uh
0:11:38.959,0:11:42.000
it doesn't matter i doesn't want to have
0:11:40.800,0:11:43.760
kids in a way now
0:11:42.000,0:11:45.279
so i started with the pills again to get
0:11:43.760,0:11:47.680
my period back
0:11:45.279,0:11:49.600
and i got it back and then i changed
0:11:47.680,0:11:52.720
pills to the mean pills
0:11:49.600,0:11:53.920
and then i only got the period two times
0:11:52.720,0:11:56.480
a year
0:11:53.920,0:11:58.480
and that was fine with me because uh it
0:11:56.480,0:12:02.000
was really painful
0:11:58.480,0:12:04.720
and i am a heavy bleeder also so
0:12:02.000,0:12:06.480
that was fine with me too not having it
0:12:04.720,0:12:11.200
at all
0:12:06.480,0:12:13.600
um but when i stopped taking the pills
0:12:11.200,0:12:15.440
and i learned about the pcos and i was
0:12:13.600,0:12:18.959
thinking about my history
0:12:15.440,0:12:20.240
i got my period uh very late i was 16
0:12:18.959,0:12:23.360
the first time
0:12:20.240,0:12:26.800
and i was 18 when
0:12:23.360,0:12:28.000
it was regular almost uh 30 days uh
0:12:26.800,0:12:29.600
between
0:12:28.000,0:12:31.200
but then i started with the pills i
0:12:29.600,0:12:33.120
don't know if um
0:12:31.200,0:12:35.120
anything would have changed if they
0:12:33.120,0:12:38.160
would have continued
0:12:35.120,0:12:40.720
because i think if it had continued
0:12:38.160,0:12:42.560
it wouldn't be that problematic for me
0:12:40.720,0:12:44.959
to get pregnant
0:12:42.560,0:12:46.480
but since i started with the pills and
0:12:44.959,0:12:48.959
when i stopped with them and
0:12:46.480,0:12:52.800
the period didn't come back i blame the
0:12:48.959,0:12:54.079
pills i do that it's understandable to
0:12:52.800,0:12:57.200
make that correlation
0:12:54.079,0:12:59.760
um i've heard as well that
0:12:57.200,0:13:00.959
periods can be painful with polycystic
0:12:59.760,0:13:04.000
ovaries
0:13:00.959,0:13:06.240
my sister has the same condition so
0:13:04.000,0:13:08.639
she has said that from month to month if
0:13:06.240,0:13:11.360
she's having a period it's very painful
0:13:08.639,0:13:13.040
um i don't it looks like that's we've
0:13:11.360,0:13:14.240
spoken to now three different people on
0:13:13.040,0:13:16.560
the
0:13:14.240,0:13:18.399
on this everywhere and um they've all
0:13:16.560,0:13:21.519
had similar
0:13:18.399,0:13:22.639
similar things to say about how painful
0:13:21.519,0:13:25.839
it is for
0:13:22.639,0:13:28.320
menstruation and um
0:13:25.839,0:13:30.639
so yeah it's something that we we we're
0:13:28.320,0:13:32.959
finding out it's a lot more common
0:13:30.639,0:13:34.079
than we what we would have thought of at
0:13:32.959,0:13:36.000
the beginning of the series
0:13:34.079,0:13:38.000
that we started so we're learning as we
0:13:36.000,0:13:39.279
go as well and uh it's interesting to
0:13:38.000,0:13:41.199
hear from you
0:13:39.279,0:13:43.040
that you're making that correlation with
0:13:41.199,0:13:44.720
the the mini pill
0:13:43.040,0:13:46.560
i guess the difficulty might be as well
0:13:44.720,0:13:47.920
is that in some ways
0:13:46.560,0:13:49.519
you never know you said you spoke
0:13:47.920,0:13:50.720
yourself about getting your first paid
0:13:49.519,0:13:54.079
at 16
0:13:50.720,0:13:58.560
becoming regular about 18 and
0:13:54.079,0:14:01.440
and i guess had you not taken the pill
0:13:58.560,0:14:02.079
would that have continued to be a sort
0:14:01.440,0:14:04.000
of regular
0:14:02.079,0:14:05.519
every 30 day period from 18 or would you
0:14:04.000,0:14:07.199
have noticed periods when it stopped and
0:14:05.519,0:14:09.120
started and that would have been an
0:14:07.199,0:14:11.279
early telltale sign but i guess there's
0:14:09.120,0:14:14.160
no way to know
0:14:11.279,0:14:14.720
exactly like that i have been thinking
0:14:14.160,0:14:17.920
about that
0:14:14.720,0:14:21.360
during those last seven years now
0:14:17.920,0:14:23.600
what if uh i stopped taking the pills
0:14:21.360,0:14:25.760
and really stopped with them when i did
0:14:23.600,0:14:28.880
that in the 20s
0:14:25.760,0:14:30.800
um but i was naive and
0:14:28.880,0:14:32.959
i didn't want to get pregnant before my
0:14:30.800,0:14:35.519
husband was ready to get
0:14:32.959,0:14:37.120
to have a child so that's the reason i
0:14:35.519,0:14:40.240
continue with them
0:14:37.120,0:14:42.959
and yes i regret that today
0:14:40.240,0:14:45.279
after all those years trying but there
0:14:42.959,0:14:48.480
is nothing i can do about that now so i
0:14:45.279,0:14:50.720
just try to move forward yeah
0:14:48.480,0:14:52.320
that's a good um without making any
0:14:50.720,0:14:54.079
judgment but that is that seems to me
0:14:52.320,0:14:57.040
like a really good um
0:14:54.079,0:14:58.399
mindset to have to think we can't fix
0:14:57.040,0:15:00.639
the past
0:14:58.399,0:15:02.880
and let's see what we can do to move
0:15:00.639,0:15:04.560
forward so i i think and personally i
0:15:02.880,0:15:07.120
think that's a very positive way to look
0:15:04.560,0:15:08.639
at it and well done for you for
0:15:07.120,0:15:13.040
for having that mindset it would be very
0:15:08.639,0:15:16.160
easy to be to hate life and to hate um
0:15:13.040,0:15:17.680
the medical profession for ruining your
0:15:16.160,0:15:18.720
dream you know so you've had since you
0:15:17.680,0:15:22.000
were six so
0:15:18.720,0:15:23.600
um yeah it seems like
0:15:22.000,0:15:24.959
you at least you have the right mindset
0:15:23.600,0:15:26.079
and i think that'll be helpful going
0:15:24.959,0:15:29.440
forward
0:15:26.079,0:15:33.120
have you raised the the issue
0:15:29.440,0:15:36.880
with with doctors with um
0:15:33.120,0:15:38.480
a gp to say i i honestly think that
0:15:36.880,0:15:40.320
the mini pill or the pill or whatever
0:15:38.480,0:15:43.519
conception it may have been is
0:15:40.320,0:15:45.759
responsible for me being able to to
0:15:43.519,0:15:49.759
ovulate
0:15:45.759,0:15:52.959
and partly i have asked about this
0:15:49.759,0:15:55.040
and not fully um and what the doctors
0:15:52.959,0:16:00.079
have told me there is that i
0:15:55.040,0:16:00.079
am medicational infertile
0:16:00.320,0:16:03.839
i don't know if you can uh translate it
0:16:02.079,0:16:06.560
that way sounds like a
0:16:03.839,0:16:09.839
medically infertile medication i'm not
0:16:06.560,0:16:09.839
sure yeah
0:16:14.720,0:16:22.240
yes so they just explained that
0:16:19.120,0:16:25.360
because of my pcos and
0:16:22.240,0:16:29.839
maybe perhaps also because of my
0:16:25.360,0:16:33.040
theory not working like it should be
0:16:29.839,0:16:35.920
and also i have celiac disease
0:16:33.040,0:16:37.279
so it could be a combination but the
0:16:35.920,0:16:41.120
doctors blame
0:16:37.279,0:16:43.600
pcos when it comes to me okay
0:16:41.120,0:16:44.399
okay let's let's suppose they have to
0:16:43.600,0:16:46.399
pinpoint it
0:16:44.399,0:16:48.800
to something don't they they have to try
0:16:46.399,0:16:50.800
and diagnose something yeah
0:16:48.800,0:16:52.959
absolutely yeah ryan i have spoken
0:16:50.800,0:16:56.639
separately away from the podcast about
0:16:52.959,0:16:59.440
sort of um catch-all
0:16:56.639,0:17:00.160
um diagnosis diagnosis if that's the one
0:16:59.440,0:17:01.440
where
0:17:00.160,0:17:03.519
it's almost like you get to the end of
0:17:01.440,0:17:05.120
the road we've tried this it's not this
0:17:03.519,0:17:07.600
we've tried this it's not that
0:17:05.120,0:17:08.880
so it's got to be this yes here's his
0:17:07.600,0:17:11.520
blanket umbrella yes
0:17:08.880,0:17:12.799
that's the wonderful thing yeah we've
0:17:11.520,0:17:14.240
also noticed there seems to be a bit
0:17:12.799,0:17:15.039
discrepancy within the healthcare
0:17:14.240,0:17:16.959
systems of
0:17:15.039,0:17:18.640
different countries with this we've
0:17:16.959,0:17:20.000
found it's very we've been very lucky to
0:17:18.640,0:17:23.120
speak to people in america
0:17:20.000,0:17:25.919
in scotland um and now with yourself
0:17:23.120,0:17:27.919
um and the differences between all the
0:17:25.919,0:17:29.679
different health cares seems to be
0:17:27.919,0:17:31.520
quite vast there's quite a big
0:17:29.679,0:17:33.200
difference between where you live
0:17:31.520,0:17:34.960
and what kind of care you get and what
0:17:33.200,0:17:36.480
options are available to you
0:17:34.960,0:17:38.880
which we're finding very interesting as
0:17:36.480,0:17:39.760
well sometimes within countries as well
0:17:38.880,0:17:41.919
we spoke to
0:17:39.760,0:17:43.840
divine system our previous show about
0:17:41.919,0:17:45.360
how she had different experiences in one
0:17:43.840,0:17:46.720
part of scotland compared to another
0:17:45.360,0:17:48.080
part of scotland so
0:17:46.720,0:17:49.760
that actually leads us on really nicely
0:17:48.080,0:17:53.120
around to what i was going to ask
0:17:49.760,0:17:55.440
about some of the the treatments and the
0:17:53.120,0:17:57.600
suggestions that you have um have been
0:17:55.440,0:18:01.039
made available to you in sweden
0:17:57.600,0:18:02.799
what have you tried and what of the sort
0:18:01.039,0:18:06.400
of criteria the entry
0:18:02.799,0:18:06.400
criteria for those been today
0:18:06.960,0:18:11.679
yes like i said earlier for starter you
0:18:10.480,0:18:15.120
need to try
0:18:11.679,0:18:17.039
for 12 months before you can get help
0:18:15.120,0:18:18.240
and this is when you are young when
0:18:17.039,0:18:22.000
you're starting to
0:18:18.240,0:18:26.080
as a woman to come of age 48 49
0:18:22.000,0:18:29.360
4 39 and 40 and
0:18:26.080,0:18:32.480
then you get to help them earlier
0:18:29.360,0:18:36.080
they prioritize those women
0:18:32.480,0:18:39.520
because after 31
0:18:36.080,0:18:42.720
for 41 you won't get
0:18:39.520,0:18:46.160
that much help anymore and then they say
0:18:42.720,0:18:49.520
look into uh foster care to have
0:18:46.160,0:18:52.080
those kids or adoption okay
0:18:49.520,0:18:52.799
so they have a natural cut off then um
0:18:52.080,0:18:56.240
yeah
0:18:52.799,0:18:58.000
like a very real cutoff to saying
0:18:56.240,0:18:59.840
right now we're not going to help it's
0:18:58.000,0:19:03.039
time to move on think of something else
0:18:59.840,0:19:06.080
yeah and wow there can be some
0:19:03.039,0:19:08.840
gray zones uh because if there is
0:19:06.080,0:19:10.080
a woman that had uh have a children
0:19:08.840,0:19:13.200
before
0:19:10.080,0:19:13.200
she are more
0:19:14.080,0:19:18.320
there are higher chance that she will
0:19:16.799,0:19:21.520
get pregnant again
0:19:18.320,0:19:24.400
even if she has turned 42 so
0:19:21.520,0:19:25.120
in private clinics and maybe she can get
0:19:24.400,0:19:28.240
help
0:19:25.120,0:19:29.360
but not in the ordinary clinics in the
0:19:28.240,0:19:33.039
hospitals
0:19:29.360,0:19:35.280
i see okay looking comparatively
0:19:33.039,0:19:36.880
in the uk the national health service
0:19:35.280,0:19:38.960
website states that
0:19:36.880,0:19:41.360
ivf in particular is offered to women
0:19:38.960,0:19:42.960
under the age of 43
0:19:41.360,0:19:44.880
who have been trying to get pregnant
0:19:42.960,0:19:45.200
either through regular unprotected sex
0:19:44.880,0:19:48.799
for
0:19:45.200,0:19:50.799
two years or who have had 12 cycles of
0:19:48.799,0:19:53.440
artificial insemination
0:19:50.799,0:19:54.559
and i imagine that that would maybe be
0:19:53.440,0:19:57.440
different maybe the entry
0:19:54.559,0:19:59.280
criteria would be more lacks in the
0:19:57.440,0:20:00.880
private sector but certainly in the the
0:19:59.280,0:20:02.400
public sector here that's that's the
0:20:00.880,0:20:04.159
rules there those are the rules
0:20:02.400,0:20:06.000
with regards to to sweden you spoke
0:20:04.159,0:20:09.600
about sort of going private as well
0:20:06.000,0:20:10.880
and are you looking at enhanced costs
0:20:09.600,0:20:12.159
how does the health care system what
0:20:10.880,0:20:14.159
excuse my ignorance how does the health
0:20:12.159,0:20:16.480
care system work in sweden with regards
0:20:14.159,0:20:20.480
to treatment such as ivf either
0:20:16.480,0:20:24.080
publicly or privately uh i am
0:20:20.480,0:20:27.440
currently at the public clinic and um
0:20:24.080,0:20:30.559
here they taking so many patients
0:20:27.440,0:20:33.120
from the area around where i live so you
0:20:30.559,0:20:34.480
only get help here if you don't have a
0:20:33.120,0:20:38.000
kid before
0:20:34.480,0:20:42.000
they doesn't do those private helps
0:20:38.000,0:20:45.280
and if they don't have to so to say
0:20:42.000,0:20:48.559
i have a friend she has had
0:20:45.280,0:20:51.440
gotten help private at this clinic but
0:20:48.559,0:20:52.159
if you have kids from before and are
0:20:51.440,0:20:54.480
trying
0:20:52.159,0:20:56.400
and can't get pregnant again then you
0:20:54.480,0:20:59.120
need to go private
0:20:56.400,0:21:01.120
okay do you know what the sort of costs
0:20:59.120,0:21:03.440
are just for comparison i see in the
0:21:01.120,0:21:04.960
the uk it can be about five thousand
0:21:03.440,0:21:08.720
pounds for one cycle
0:21:04.960,0:21:10.640
privately of ivf uh i think it's a
0:21:08.720,0:21:14.159
little bit lower here
0:21:10.640,0:21:15.440
uh one cycle will be around and i hope
0:21:14.159,0:21:18.559
i'm saying correct now
0:21:15.440,0:21:22.240
but like 3 000 pounds
0:21:18.559,0:21:25.600
yeah i think it's uh 33 or 45
0:21:22.240,0:21:28.320
000 swedish crowns okay
0:21:25.600,0:21:29.760
sounds about right rhino but roughly
0:21:28.320,0:21:30.159
within the simkin a ballpark figure
0:21:29.760,0:21:32.080
maybe
0:21:30.159,0:21:33.440
yeah i think so i mean not having the
0:21:32.080,0:21:35.120
calculator switched on in my head i
0:21:33.440,0:21:36.559
think that's about right
0:21:35.120,0:21:38.400
it's too early for that it's all the
0:21:36.559,0:21:40.400
time and also i wanted to
0:21:38.400,0:21:42.000
to say that in your defense it's not
0:21:40.400,0:21:44.159
ignorance we i don't even know how our
0:21:42.000,0:21:45.200
health care system works thank you i'll
0:21:44.159,0:21:46.640
take this
0:21:45.200,0:21:51.440
thank you for sticking up for me just in
0:21:46.640,0:21:51.440
your defense i was putting myself down
0:21:52.080,0:21:56.080
thank you uh interesting to meet those
0:21:54.480,0:21:57.600
comparisons as well and see how
0:21:56.080,0:21:59.520
countries do it differently in similarly
0:21:57.600,0:22:00.320
but it looks like we're more or less on
0:21:59.520,0:22:02.240
the same sort of
0:22:00.320,0:22:04.000
um wavelength at least if you're
0:22:02.240,0:22:07.679
listening in the uk
0:22:04.000,0:22:10.240
what has your your journey been like
0:22:07.679,0:22:11.600
with medication with ivf and with these
0:22:10.240,0:22:15.280
alternative methods to
0:22:11.600,0:22:19.039
to get pregnant at first
0:22:15.280,0:22:22.799
we tried this pill called
0:22:19.039,0:22:26.000
pergotine and to
0:22:22.799,0:22:29.360
make me ovulate and i
0:22:26.000,0:22:32.880
did ovulate with a double dose
0:22:29.360,0:22:36.799
but it took a too long time the doctors
0:22:32.880,0:22:37.760
was thought instead of two weeks it took
0:22:36.799,0:22:40.400
three weeks so
0:22:37.760,0:22:41.039
they told me that now you should move on
0:22:40.400,0:22:44.320
with the
0:22:41.039,0:22:47.360
injections instead and
0:22:44.320,0:22:50.000
that was when i tried purguan
0:22:47.360,0:22:50.000
and that's
0:22:50.880,0:22:57.360
i don't know in swedish
0:22:54.320,0:23:00.960
yeah it's hard to
0:22:57.360,0:23:03.760
say well um this
0:23:00.960,0:23:04.480
shot i tried at one time to try to
0:23:03.760,0:23:07.600
overlake
0:23:04.480,0:23:11.039
but here in sweden also
0:23:07.600,0:23:14.159
we have this social board
0:23:11.039,0:23:17.200
so to say uh they regulate
0:23:14.159,0:23:23.520
how many eggs that
0:23:17.200,0:23:25.840
are allowed to release how many
0:23:23.520,0:23:26.799
children you can have in the same time
0:23:25.840,0:23:30.000
when you're pregnant
0:23:26.799,0:23:33.200
sure twins are okay but
0:23:30.000,0:23:34.559
they uh they mostly want you to you only
0:23:33.200,0:23:38.240
have one kid
0:23:34.559,0:23:42.080
at a time so when i took
0:23:38.240,0:23:45.600
pedogon and there was four follics
0:23:42.080,0:23:46.640
and the doctor said no no stop yeah this
0:23:45.600,0:23:49.840
is not good
0:23:46.640,0:23:53.039
four kids in the same time
0:23:49.840,0:23:54.559
so we stopped having two children i can
0:23:53.039,0:23:57.600
confess that that would be
0:23:54.559,0:23:59.200
difficult yeah um and they were spread
0:23:57.600,0:24:02.000
apart so uh yeah yeah four
0:23:59.200,0:24:04.799
all at one go i know people have done it
0:24:02.000,0:24:08.080
ivf i've seen now like what eight kids
0:24:04.799,0:24:11.679
eat topless i don't know octopus no
0:24:08.080,0:24:15.600
can you imagine that i mean yeah
0:24:11.679,0:24:15.600
no i can't i can't but not in a good way
0:24:17.120,0:24:23.840
well i would love to have twins so i
0:24:20.640,0:24:25.279
can have two kids uh at one time instant
0:24:23.840,0:24:27.760
family yes that sounds
0:24:25.279,0:24:29.679
that sounds very good i like that i'm
0:24:27.760,0:24:31.440
not again i'm not catching judgment just
0:24:29.679,0:24:35.039
for my own personal thing
0:24:31.440,0:24:39.039
two at once seems seems manageable yeah
0:24:35.039,0:24:42.720
that's what i am thinking too
0:24:39.039,0:24:43.760
yeah so yeah we tried that pergone and i
0:24:42.720,0:24:47.039
have to stop
0:24:43.760,0:24:51.279
and when i did try this
0:24:47.039,0:24:55.200
we are in autumn of 2016
0:24:51.279,0:24:58.960
and uh i have only had a free tries
0:24:55.200,0:25:01.760
and one of them i got an ovulation
0:24:58.960,0:25:03.120
and didn't get pregnant so the doctors
0:25:01.760,0:25:07.039
told me after this that
0:25:03.120,0:25:09.520
now you need to go forward with the ivf
0:25:07.039,0:25:12.480
and one thing that is important here in
0:25:09.520,0:25:12.480
sweden is that
0:25:12.840,0:25:20.480
in 2014 i think it was they decided that
0:25:17.360,0:25:23.600
in the whole of sweden no matter what
0:25:20.480,0:25:29.679
region you are living in
0:25:23.600,0:25:32.720
you will get free ivf for free
0:25:29.679,0:25:35.120
wow yes okay
0:25:32.720,0:25:36.720
i wasn't expecting that no so that's a
0:25:35.120,0:25:38.960
big breakthrough for you then
0:25:36.720,0:25:40.840
well at the time it would have been for
0:25:38.960,0:25:43.919
to hear that you'd
0:25:40.840,0:25:47.200
thought in my region
0:25:43.919,0:25:52.000
this was already set so it was
0:25:47.200,0:25:52.000
just the rest of the sweden to catch up
0:25:52.640,0:25:56.320
okay but you can imagine that would be a
0:25:54.720,0:25:58.960
huge relief to
0:25:56.320,0:26:00.080
so many families around the country yes
0:25:58.960,0:26:03.840
yes
0:26:00.080,0:26:07.760
because um when we started
0:26:03.840,0:26:10.799
the first ivf um
0:26:07.760,0:26:13.600
in my ovaries there
0:26:10.799,0:26:14.640
it looks like i have this necklace with
0:26:13.600,0:26:17.360
pearls
0:26:14.640,0:26:20.799
that because i have so many follics
0:26:17.360,0:26:24.000
lying there and waiting to grow and
0:26:20.799,0:26:27.279
release eggs so
0:26:24.000,0:26:30.480
when i took pergone the first time uh
0:26:27.279,0:26:33.760
20 of those follics grew to
0:26:30.480,0:26:36.159
a great size so the doctor said
0:26:33.760,0:26:36.799
well we will see but perhaps you will
0:26:36.159,0:26:40.400
have like
0:26:36.799,0:26:42.799
10 eggs and then they
0:26:40.400,0:26:43.520
took them out and it turned out to only
0:26:42.799,0:26:47.200
be one
0:26:43.520,0:26:50.559
egg from those 20 and that was
0:26:47.200,0:26:53.919
a pretty big bummer so to say
0:26:50.559,0:26:57.840
for me i wasn't expecting that from
0:26:53.919,0:27:01.360
all the follicles that was growing
0:26:57.840,0:27:04.840
uh fortunately the egg got fertilized
0:27:01.360,0:27:08.960
and the first days it divided really
0:27:04.840,0:27:09.840
nice and we took the egg out on the
0:27:08.960,0:27:12.799
friday
0:27:09.840,0:27:13.120
and on monday we came in to transfer it
0:27:12.799,0:27:16.480
back
0:27:13.120,0:27:18.480
into me and the doctors say yeah it
0:27:16.480,0:27:19.440
looks like this and she said the number
0:27:18.480,0:27:22.640
of cells
0:27:19.440,0:27:25.440
and i was still very naive
0:27:22.640,0:27:26.399
at this time so i said oh that sounds
0:27:25.440,0:27:28.320
good
0:27:26.399,0:27:31.120
and the doctor she looked at me and say
0:27:28.320,0:27:31.120
no it's not
0:27:31.279,0:27:38.240
thank you thanks for the news
0:27:35.120,0:27:40.480
thanks doctor thanks so
0:27:38.240,0:27:41.279
that was pretty hard for us to hear we
0:27:40.480,0:27:43.760
got uh
0:27:41.279,0:27:45.919
pretty angry at her we didn't like that
0:27:43.760,0:27:48.960
doctor at all
0:27:45.919,0:27:48.960
i don't like her i never
0:27:53.440,0:28:00.240
yeah so yeah we made a transfer but
0:27:56.720,0:28:04.559
two weeks later i let it all out
0:28:00.240,0:28:08.000
so we said yeah let's do the next one
0:28:04.559,0:28:08.799
so the next time we i got on higher dose
0:28:08.000,0:28:11.919
of pergone
0:28:08.799,0:28:15.360
and now we are coming in
0:28:11.919,0:28:18.880
april uh 2016.
0:28:15.360,0:28:19.760
um so we knew where that we were going
0:28:18.880,0:28:23.279
to do
0:28:19.760,0:28:23.679
one ivf maybe one transfer before summer
0:28:23.279,0:28:26.960
and
0:28:23.679,0:28:31.840
the clinic was closing for the summer
0:28:26.960,0:28:35.440
and but this time i was over stimulated
0:28:31.840,0:28:35.919
so i didn't get 20 folics i had more
0:28:35.440,0:28:39.440
like
0:28:35.919,0:28:41.120
60. wow wow yeah
0:28:39.440,0:28:42.799
how many of those were viable how many
0:28:41.120,0:28:47.600
of the 60 were viable
0:28:42.799,0:28:50.000
yeah that was uh the other stuff
0:28:47.600,0:28:51.840
of those 60 they couldn't take all of
0:28:50.000,0:28:55.679
them out because
0:28:51.840,0:28:58.799
when the ovary is growing like that
0:28:55.679,0:29:02.399
with all eggs and they are mowing
0:28:58.799,0:29:06.080
inside of your body so my left
0:29:02.399,0:29:06.799
ovary it moved up in me and the doctor
0:29:06.080,0:29:10.000
couldn't
0:29:06.799,0:29:13.360
reach all of them so she
0:29:10.000,0:29:18.080
maybe took 50 of those 60 hey
0:29:13.360,0:29:20.720
folks and out of them there was 22 eggs
0:29:18.080,0:29:22.080
okay wow that's a better percentage i
0:29:20.720,0:29:25.600
guess than what well yeah
0:29:22.080,0:29:27.919
one out of 20 yes what does it feel like
0:29:25.600,0:29:30.080
to to have gone through
0:29:27.919,0:29:32.960
this must be such a roller coaster of
0:29:30.080,0:29:35.200
emotions to have the eyes of being told
0:29:32.960,0:29:36.720
yeah there's there's a chance to have
0:29:35.200,0:29:38.480
the laws of
0:29:36.720,0:29:40.080
well where you've been being told and
0:29:38.480,0:29:42.640
the way you were told by that doctor
0:29:40.080,0:29:43.840
and as you said earlier on bleeding it
0:29:42.640,0:29:47.360
out
0:29:43.840,0:29:49.919
yeah it's a emotional rollercoaster
0:29:47.360,0:29:52.159
where you never know if you're going up
0:29:49.919,0:29:54.640
or down
0:29:52.159,0:29:56.720
it's like you're blindfolded on this
0:29:54.640,0:30:00.320
rollercoaster
0:29:56.720,0:30:03.279
yeah and then of those 22 eggs
0:30:00.320,0:30:04.399
12 of them were fertilized and then only
0:30:03.279,0:30:07.200
one of them
0:30:04.399,0:30:08.159
were good enough to go to the freezer
0:30:07.200,0:30:11.600
because
0:30:08.159,0:30:14.559
i was overstimulated and then i didn't
0:30:11.600,0:30:15.600
get to do any fresh transfer so they
0:30:14.559,0:30:18.559
needed to
0:30:15.600,0:30:19.120
freeze them down and only one of those
0:30:18.559,0:30:22.559
could
0:30:19.120,0:30:26.000
survive that so despite having
0:30:22.559,0:30:29.440
gone from 60 to 22 we're then looking at
0:30:26.000,0:30:31.200
literally on one yes wow yes
0:30:29.440,0:30:32.799
the numbers really do fill you don't
0:30:31.200,0:30:35.200
when you hear numbers like that and
0:30:32.799,0:30:37.360
50 or 60 you start to think oh wow and
0:30:35.200,0:30:40.320
this is just us hearing it from
0:30:37.360,0:30:41.120
yeah it's whenever 22 seems like a good
0:30:40.320,0:30:42.960
number you're like oh
0:30:41.120,0:30:44.720
you've got you've got a good chance
0:30:42.960,0:30:47.120
surely um but
0:30:44.720,0:30:47.760
to only have one at the end of that and
0:30:47.120,0:30:51.840
yeah
0:30:47.760,0:30:51.840
i can understand your roller coaster
0:30:51.919,0:30:57.760
and this caused me to
0:30:55.360,0:31:00.880
be depressed so i got a depreciation
0:30:57.760,0:31:05.600
depression after that
0:31:00.880,0:31:08.159
and i was asked
0:31:05.600,0:31:09.919
by another doctor to please medicate for
0:31:08.159,0:31:12.320
this depression
0:31:09.919,0:31:13.919
and when you do that you're not allowed
0:31:12.320,0:31:17.279
to do a transfer
0:31:13.919,0:31:19.840
until you are stable in medication
0:31:17.279,0:31:23.200
so i couldn't do any transfer after the
0:31:19.840,0:31:26.320
summer i had to wait until christmas
0:31:23.200,0:31:27.919
it's almost a vicious circle yeah
0:31:26.320,0:31:29.600
we've talked about this before though we
0:31:27.919,0:31:33.519
get caught in a bit of a trap
0:31:29.600,0:31:34.640
um of one thing causing another thing
0:31:33.519,0:31:35.840
causing another thing and
0:31:34.640,0:31:37.919
then you're not really sure where you
0:31:35.840,0:31:39.200
are in that circle of things that are
0:31:37.919,0:31:40.880
causing all the different things
0:31:39.200,0:31:43.440
and you're just not sure what's causing
0:31:40.880,0:31:46.320
what anymore um
0:31:43.440,0:31:47.200
yeah it sounds really tough saying stuff
0:31:46.320,0:31:51.120
yeah
0:31:47.200,0:31:54.480
um so when we started to approach
0:31:51.120,0:31:56.559
christmas in 2016 i called the clinic
0:31:54.480,0:31:58.960
and said i am feeling stable in my
0:31:56.559,0:32:02.000
depression and with medication
0:31:58.960,0:32:02.720
so now i want to start doing what we
0:32:02.000,0:32:05.679
need to do
0:32:02.720,0:32:05.679
so we can transfer
0:32:06.240,0:32:12.880
and because of that i
0:32:09.519,0:32:17.039
know i'm not ovulating i was giving this
0:32:12.880,0:32:17.919
medication literal to try to make me
0:32:17.039,0:32:21.120
ovulate with
0:32:17.919,0:32:25.279
this to have the hormones
0:32:21.120,0:32:27.440
natural in my body as we tried a single
0:32:25.279,0:32:30.480
dose but nothing happened
0:32:27.440,0:32:33.440
and this is
0:32:30.480,0:32:35.919
after christmas because of holidays and
0:32:33.440,0:32:35.919
stuff so
0:32:36.320,0:32:42.960
then we waited in until
0:32:39.760,0:32:46.159
march 2017
0:32:42.960,0:32:49.440
and i did a double dose of letter soul
0:32:46.159,0:32:51.600
but still no ovulating
0:32:49.440,0:32:52.640
so the doctor said okay this is not
0:32:51.600,0:32:55.679
working we
0:32:52.640,0:32:56.080
are faking a pregnancy in your body with
0:32:55.679,0:32:58.960
the
0:32:56.080,0:32:58.960
hormones for that
0:32:59.200,0:33:07.200
so in april 2017
0:33:03.600,0:33:10.720
when i reached 30
0:33:07.200,0:33:13.840
we transferred
0:33:10.720,0:33:18.320
our embryo from the freezer
0:33:13.840,0:33:20.960
and a couple of weeks went by i was
0:33:18.320,0:33:21.600
feeling sick and all of that because of
0:33:20.960,0:33:26.159
the
0:33:21.600,0:33:29.039
hormones in my body and then i got this
0:33:26.159,0:33:31.679
painful cramps and i knew that i was
0:33:29.039,0:33:35.039
going to bleed it all out again
0:33:31.679,0:33:38.240
and it came
0:33:35.039,0:33:40.480
yeah and now it is too late
0:33:38.240,0:33:42.000
to start the third hour with before the
0:33:40.480,0:33:45.279
summer so
0:33:42.000,0:33:49.120
i had to wait over the summer
0:33:45.279,0:33:52.399
so this is when i do something that i
0:33:49.120,0:33:56.080
both regret and not
0:33:52.399,0:33:59.440
regret i had still later soul
0:33:56.080,0:34:02.640
at home and i did have this
0:33:59.440,0:34:06.399
injection ovitrel
0:34:02.640,0:34:09.440
that i could take to make an
0:34:06.399,0:34:11.280
egg nature and then release so i could
0:34:09.440,0:34:15.280
all late
0:34:11.280,0:34:18.480
so um when my husband and i
0:34:15.280,0:34:21.919
had our vacation that summer i took
0:34:18.480,0:34:26.159
the letter soul in triple dose
0:34:21.919,0:34:29.919
and i checked with this test to see if i
0:34:26.159,0:34:33.040
was going to overweight and i did
0:34:29.919,0:34:36.399
so then i took the injection vitrell to
0:34:33.040,0:34:39.679
make sure the egg was released
0:34:36.399,0:34:42.720
and since i have taken this
0:34:39.679,0:34:46.320
shot injection before i knew that um
0:34:42.720,0:34:49.520
14 days from the injection
0:34:46.320,0:34:53.679
i would have my period if i was not
0:34:49.520,0:34:57.920
pregnant so i waited
0:34:53.679,0:35:02.320
and day 14 came and day 14
0:34:57.920,0:35:05.680
went and no period
0:35:02.320,0:35:08.720
uh at this time we went to see some uh
0:35:05.680,0:35:12.000
family and joachim's family in
0:35:08.720,0:35:15.200
in here the sunda it's uh
0:35:12.000,0:35:18.320
um almost uh in line with stockholm
0:35:15.200,0:35:20.720
so it's north for us a
0:35:18.320,0:35:22.720
really beautiful landscape we love to go
0:35:20.720,0:35:23.359
there so we were going there to see his
0:35:22.720,0:35:26.400
family
0:35:23.359,0:35:29.680
and celebrate the baptize of
0:35:26.400,0:35:33.040
his cousin's second child
0:35:29.680,0:35:33.680
and we were there for the weekend and we
0:35:33.040,0:35:37.280
went home
0:35:33.680,0:35:39.920
aft on the sunday after the baptize
0:35:37.280,0:35:40.640
and on monday morning i felt now my
0:35:39.920,0:35:45.280
period is
0:35:40.640,0:35:48.560
late so it's time for me to check
0:35:45.280,0:35:52.720
so i woke up early on monday morning
0:35:48.560,0:35:56.000
and took a pregnancy test i waited
0:35:52.720,0:35:57.440
i looked at it and i didn't know if i
0:35:56.000,0:36:00.560
was going to faint
0:35:57.440,0:36:04.400
or scream jumped with joy or
0:36:00.560,0:36:08.800
what i was going to do i was pregnant
0:36:04.400,0:36:08.800
and this was so exciting
0:36:10.839,0:36:16.240
yeah yeah i am getting a little
0:36:13.440,0:36:17.200
emotional now i actually i'm a little
0:36:16.240,0:36:19.760
bit as well i can
0:36:17.200,0:36:20.320
i can feel that yeah sort of twinge in
0:36:19.760,0:36:24.720
my
0:36:20.320,0:36:28.320
chest yeah so
0:36:24.720,0:36:30.720
after i uh saw that
0:36:28.320,0:36:31.440
the test was positive i ran into the
0:36:30.720,0:36:34.000
bedroom where
0:36:31.440,0:36:36.079
my husband was still sleeping i woke him
0:36:34.000,0:36:39.359
up and i am pregnant
0:36:36.079,0:36:43.440
look look and i blinded him with the
0:36:39.359,0:36:43.440
the light of the lamp to make him
0:36:44.720,0:36:48.320
and then he was shocked and then he was
0:36:46.320,0:36:52.720
oh my god how did this
0:36:48.320,0:36:52.720
how did we do this i don't know
0:36:53.440,0:36:56.880
because the thing is i wasn't totally
0:36:56.160,0:36:59.200
honestly
0:36:56.880,0:37:00.720
with what i had done with the letter
0:36:59.200,0:37:03.040
soul
0:37:00.720,0:37:05.359
this was something i did without the
0:37:03.040,0:37:09.599
doctors knowing so i kept it a
0:37:05.359,0:37:12.400
secret even for my own husband wow okay
0:37:09.599,0:37:13.839
yeah and uh i suppose you weren't sure
0:37:12.400,0:37:16.800
that was going to work though either
0:37:13.839,0:37:17.200
yeah yeah i can kind of understand that
0:37:16.800,0:37:20.720
i know
0:37:17.200,0:37:22.000
um if you're going through that and
0:37:20.720,0:37:23.760
if you've been through all of that
0:37:22.000,0:37:26.480
already and
0:37:23.760,0:37:28.079
you're not sure if this is it like it's
0:37:26.480,0:37:30.240
almost be like a miracle like you
0:37:28.079,0:37:32.160
might be like why if i do this and it
0:37:30.240,0:37:35.200
works it's a miracle
0:37:32.160,0:37:37.680
so why should i get anybody's hopes up
0:37:35.200,0:37:39.200
and hopefully just we'll just try and if
0:37:37.680,0:37:40.880
it doesn't work then i'm the only one
0:37:39.200,0:37:42.960
that's affected by that
0:37:40.880,0:37:44.320
um taking that on your own shoulders
0:37:42.960,0:37:48.240
that way kind of
0:37:44.320,0:37:51.839
or let someone tell you not to yeah
0:37:48.240,0:37:51.839
i didn't know
0:37:52.720,0:37:56.480
well i have asked for his forgiveness
0:37:55.680,0:37:59.280
afterwards
0:37:56.480,0:38:00.400
and he said why didn't you tell me no
0:37:59.280,0:38:02.480
problem
0:38:00.400,0:38:04.720
and you don't need to ask for my
0:38:02.480,0:38:07.119
forgiveness so i'm very
0:38:04.720,0:38:09.839
grateful and thankful for him not being
0:38:07.119,0:38:11.440
angry with me
0:38:09.839,0:38:13.280
were you aware at the time when you were
0:38:11.440,0:38:15.119
doing this
0:38:13.280,0:38:16.800
how did it feel when you knew that you
0:38:15.119,0:38:18.000
were you were going through the process
0:38:16.800,0:38:20.480
of taking the triple dose
0:38:18.000,0:38:22.560
and you you knew that this wasn't
0:38:20.480,0:38:24.240
something that the doctors had
0:38:22.560,0:38:26.320
advised you to do you knew your doctor
0:38:24.240,0:38:27.599
didn't know what sort of emotions were
0:38:26.320,0:38:30.960
you feeling at the time
0:38:27.599,0:38:34.480
yeah i was scared i was
0:38:30.960,0:38:38.000
ashamed and
0:38:34.480,0:38:41.359
i was also pretty sure it would work
0:38:38.000,0:38:44.720
uh in the same time i wasn't sure at
0:38:41.359,0:38:46.560
all what i did do before i took the
0:38:44.720,0:38:50.400
triple dose it was i
0:38:46.560,0:38:50.800
did search on internet in sweden there
0:38:50.400,0:38:53.680
is
0:38:50.800,0:38:54.320
not more to see and there was one couple
0:38:53.680,0:38:57.359
i found
0:38:54.320,0:39:00.720
that i had taken almost a triple dose
0:38:57.359,0:39:04.079
and got pregnant so it's interesting you
0:39:00.720,0:39:05.440
spoke about feeling ashamed with your
0:39:04.079,0:39:08.480
decision to
0:39:05.440,0:39:10.560
to take a triple dose can you talk more
0:39:08.480,0:39:13.680
about that please
0:39:10.560,0:39:17.680
mostly i felt ashamed because of
0:39:13.680,0:39:18.800
i was lying i was telling lies to my
0:39:17.680,0:39:22.880
family
0:39:18.800,0:39:25.920
to my husband and when
0:39:22.880,0:39:30.000
i reached 12 weeks of the pregnancy
0:39:25.920,0:39:30.000
i started to lie to
0:39:30.079,0:39:35.200
my midwife so yeah i was lying to people
0:39:34.160,0:39:39.040
around me
0:39:35.200,0:39:42.880
all the time and it was a really bad
0:39:39.040,0:39:42.880
feeling and i was ashamed and
0:39:43.200,0:39:46.640
i was thinking what if something bad
0:39:45.119,0:39:50.320
happens it will be
0:39:46.640,0:39:54.079
my fault if something bad happens
0:39:50.320,0:39:57.200
yes those are the reasons
0:39:54.079,0:39:58.560
yeah it's difficult to to have those to
0:39:57.200,0:39:59.760
have that all flowing through you as
0:39:58.560,0:40:01.040
well where you're meant to be feeling
0:39:59.760,0:40:02.720
happy that something
0:40:01.040,0:40:04.160
something that you wanted has happened
0:40:02.720,0:40:06.880
and
0:40:04.160,0:40:09.119
just yeah it's like that we're back on
0:40:06.880,0:40:11.040
the roller coaster
0:40:09.119,0:40:12.240
all of is emotions all of us yeah we're
0:40:11.040,0:40:15.839
coming with you this time
0:40:12.240,0:40:18.000
feels like um and it's just
0:40:15.839,0:40:19.839
yeah it's really it's sorry go on i've
0:40:18.000,0:40:21.359
interrupted but yeah
0:40:19.839,0:40:24.640
can you think of any of the lies that
0:40:21.359,0:40:28.160
you you had to tell
0:40:24.640,0:40:30.880
well people asked me how
0:40:28.160,0:40:32.640
i got pregnant because i am very open
0:40:30.880,0:40:36.160
with my infertility
0:40:32.640,0:40:39.040
so people around me my friends family
0:40:36.160,0:40:39.839
people that i work with they know that
0:40:39.040,0:40:41.760
they know the
0:40:39.839,0:40:43.280
how much we struggle and what we are
0:40:41.760,0:40:45.760
going through
0:40:43.280,0:40:46.319
so when i was meeting people and they
0:40:45.760,0:40:49.200
learned
0:40:46.319,0:40:49.599
i was pregnant and they asked asked me
0:40:49.200,0:40:52.640
how
0:40:49.599,0:40:56.000
did you get pregnant was it ivf
0:40:52.640,0:40:59.599
or what was it what was it and i was
0:40:56.000,0:41:02.720
telling and half life i didn't mention
0:40:59.599,0:41:06.000
letter soul but i did tell them about
0:41:02.720,0:41:08.400
the injection and told them i
0:41:06.000,0:41:09.200
wasn't sure that the egg was going to
0:41:08.400,0:41:12.079
release so
0:41:09.200,0:41:14.640
i took the injection to make sure they
0:41:12.079,0:41:18.319
released and then i got pregnant
0:41:14.640,0:41:22.480
so that was what i was telling people
0:41:18.319,0:41:25.599
what made you what made you want to
0:41:22.480,0:41:28.079
not be open with your husband in the
0:41:25.599,0:41:31.119
first place
0:41:28.079,0:41:34.800
uh mostly because i was
0:41:31.119,0:41:37.440
afraid that he was going to say no
0:41:34.800,0:41:39.200
not without the doctors we shouldn't do
0:41:37.440,0:41:42.720
anything without the doctors
0:41:39.200,0:41:46.160
it's too risky because
0:41:42.720,0:41:48.800
he's a very safe person
0:41:46.160,0:41:50.400
he wants everything to be safe and fine
0:41:48.800,0:41:53.760
and he is uh
0:41:50.400,0:41:54.400
worried that i would get hurt in some
0:41:53.760,0:41:57.119
way
0:41:54.400,0:41:58.560
sure does he tend to stick to the to the
0:41:57.119,0:42:02.160
rules and the guidelines
0:41:58.560,0:42:04.319
as much as possible yes yeah
0:42:02.160,0:42:06.000
i could very much really like that oh
0:42:04.319,0:42:08.720
yeah i certainly am are you like that
0:42:06.000,0:42:11.359
ryan did you see that
0:42:08.720,0:42:12.400
um in certain parts and like obviously
0:42:11.359,0:42:15.359
we've had this year
0:42:12.400,0:42:16.240
and i've stuck to every rule we've been
0:42:15.359,0:42:19.280
we've been given
0:42:16.240,0:42:22.240
uh thanks covered yeah thanks
0:42:19.280,0:42:23.839
um i'm just i think when it when it
0:42:22.240,0:42:27.200
comes to health and safety
0:42:23.839,0:42:29.760
and risk assessment i'm pretty
0:42:27.200,0:42:30.880
pretty uh strict with that especially
0:42:29.760,0:42:33.200
since having children
0:42:30.880,0:42:37.040
um risk assess i seem to risk assess
0:42:33.200,0:42:37.040
everything no this room is unsafe
0:42:37.119,0:42:42.640
um but yeah um probably not in
0:42:40.880,0:42:44.160
general life i'm a bit haphazard in
0:42:42.640,0:42:45.760
general life from a
0:42:44.160,0:42:47.200
fly by the seats of your pants kind of
0:42:45.760,0:42:49.359
guy but
0:42:47.200,0:42:50.800
um and when it comes to the help
0:42:49.359,0:42:52.640
especially with my wife i
0:42:50.800,0:42:54.480
will be like no you will take care of
0:42:52.640,0:42:56.000
yourself and then we will work on the
0:42:54.480,0:42:58.720
rest after that
0:42:56.000,0:43:00.079
so um yeah i can relate to that that
0:42:58.720,0:43:03.200
side of it
0:43:00.079,0:43:06.800
okay take us through
0:43:03.200,0:43:08.640
the the next part of your of your ivf
0:43:06.800,0:43:12.880
journey then please tell us
0:43:08.640,0:43:16.319
yeah so uh now i am pregnant
0:43:12.880,0:43:18.400
um and here in sweden in not
0:43:16.319,0:43:19.680
all radions here's the difference
0:43:18.400,0:43:22.720
between
0:43:19.680,0:43:26.319
trying for a baby and
0:43:22.720,0:43:27.200
doing the ivf and being pregnant in my
0:43:26.319,0:43:30.720
region
0:43:27.200,0:43:35.520
you everyone can do the tests
0:43:30.720,0:43:38.960
in week 12 they do the first ultrasound
0:43:35.520,0:43:42.160
and they take the blood samples to
0:43:38.960,0:43:43.760
see if there are any abnormalities in
0:43:42.160,0:43:46.319
the baby
0:43:43.760,0:43:47.920
so we did that and i was really scared
0:43:46.319,0:43:50.319
because oh my god what if
0:43:47.920,0:43:52.319
there is two babies because of the
0:43:50.319,0:43:54.319
letter soul i was really scared about
0:43:52.319,0:43:59.119
that
0:43:54.319,0:44:01.359
there was only one baby and
0:43:59.119,0:44:02.400
the baby was doing fine what they could
0:44:01.359,0:44:05.440
see
0:44:02.400,0:44:09.040
it was a little smaller than what
0:44:05.440,0:44:11.839
i had expected from
0:44:09.040,0:44:12.319
the dates i was uh having in my mind
0:44:11.839,0:44:14.720
when i
0:44:12.319,0:44:16.319
was when the overwatch happened and the
0:44:14.720,0:44:19.359
pregnancy and all that
0:44:16.319,0:44:19.680
and but that was just a couple of days
0:44:19.359,0:44:22.880
so
0:44:19.680,0:44:26.000
okay i can be wrong
0:44:22.880,0:44:28.160
and they didn't share with us the result
0:44:26.000,0:44:30.880
of the tests uh the numbers
0:44:28.160,0:44:31.280
and they only do that when they see
0:44:30.880,0:44:34.560
there
0:44:31.280,0:44:36.480
that there is a risk of down syndrome or
0:44:34.560,0:44:39.599
anything like that
0:44:36.480,0:44:42.880
so they didn't share anything and
0:44:39.599,0:44:46.480
we continued with everything
0:44:42.880,0:44:51.040
so we can skip to week 18
0:44:46.480,0:44:54.960
and when we had our second ultrasound
0:44:51.040,0:44:58.720
and this is uh for the old of sweden
0:44:54.960,0:45:01.599
you have an ultrasound in week 18.
0:44:58.720,0:45:02.720
and this is a big ultrasound where they
0:45:01.599,0:45:05.040
are
0:45:02.720,0:45:06.480
really shaking the baby how the baby is
0:45:05.040,0:45:09.520
doing uh
0:45:06.480,0:45:10.000
are there is there a brain is the heart
0:45:09.520,0:45:12.720
there
0:45:10.000,0:45:14.000
and the feet and arms everything it's
0:45:12.720,0:45:17.920
really important
0:45:14.000,0:45:20.000
here to you do that and this ultrasound
0:45:17.920,0:45:23.839
started really good
0:45:20.000,0:45:28.560
and everything looked fine
0:45:23.839,0:45:32.560
and then we got to see the feet
0:45:28.560,0:45:33.520
on the baby and that was really really
0:45:32.560,0:45:37.040
scary
0:45:33.520,0:45:38.960
uh for us we knew right away that
0:45:37.040,0:45:42.640
something was wrong when we
0:45:38.960,0:45:45.440
got to see the feet the feet was twisted
0:45:42.640,0:45:46.720
if if defeaters are supposed like to go
0:45:45.440,0:45:50.160
straight like this
0:45:46.720,0:45:50.160
they were turned in like this
0:45:50.319,0:45:56.079
so in our minds this was oh my god
0:45:53.440,0:45:59.280
what's wrong what is this why is the
0:45:56.079,0:46:02.079
feet looking like that on the baby
0:45:59.280,0:46:03.040
the midwife who was doing the ultrasound
0:46:02.079,0:46:06.400
she was
0:46:03.040,0:46:09.839
really good she was calm she didn't
0:46:06.400,0:46:12.960
show any feelings any emotions
0:46:09.839,0:46:13.440
so she finished the ultrasound and then
0:46:12.960,0:46:17.760
she
0:46:13.440,0:46:21.280
said to us and as you could see the feet
0:46:17.760,0:46:26.480
was twisted in swedish we call it
0:46:21.280,0:46:26.480
clump fault twisted feet and
0:46:26.640,0:46:31.520
and this is nothing to be worried about
0:46:29.520,0:46:33.520
it's a simple procedure
0:46:31.520,0:46:35.839
when the baby is born to make sure the
0:46:33.520,0:46:38.880
feet is uh straight again
0:46:35.839,0:46:39.440
it will take some time but the baby will
0:46:38.880,0:46:43.040
be
0:46:39.440,0:46:46.240
fine but uh we need
0:46:43.040,0:46:47.920
to make sure that there is nothing else
0:46:46.240,0:46:50.240
wrong with the baby
0:46:47.920,0:46:51.119
so you will give be given an extra
0:46:50.240,0:46:53.920
ultrasound
0:46:51.119,0:46:54.720
and this time there will be an
0:46:53.920,0:46:58.319
specialist
0:46:54.720,0:47:01.680
doctor that will make the ultrasound
0:46:58.319,0:47:04.800
and you will do it at the hospital
0:47:01.680,0:47:07.920
so we waited a week
0:47:04.800,0:47:10.960
and we went to the hospital and we
0:47:07.920,0:47:14.000
did the ultrasound and
0:47:10.960,0:47:17.440
everything was fine also there and
0:47:14.000,0:47:19.760
this ultrasound was scary in an
0:47:17.440,0:47:21.200
another way it's a little bit funny
0:47:19.760,0:47:24.640
because
0:47:21.200,0:47:27.359
he was making sure the face was
0:47:24.640,0:47:28.000
fine on the baby that nothing was wrong
0:47:27.359,0:47:31.920
there
0:47:28.000,0:47:35.520
so we got to see the skeleton the skull
0:47:31.920,0:47:39.839
and that was not nice to see
0:47:35.520,0:47:39.839
it was like you see a pirate's flag
0:47:41.200,0:47:47.440
it's a good comparison yeah like really
0:47:44.480,0:47:47.440
visual i can imagine
0:47:47.760,0:47:52.160
but apart from that the the doctor he
0:47:50.800,0:47:54.800
told us that
0:47:52.160,0:47:56.480
you have a handsome baby this will be
0:47:54.800,0:47:59.040
fine
0:47:56.480,0:47:59.839
i can't i can't see anything more wrong
0:47:59.040,0:48:02.000
than the feet
0:47:59.839,0:48:03.359
so i don't think that you should do
0:48:02.000,0:48:07.040
anything more now
0:48:03.359,0:48:10.480
than go home relax enjoy your pregnancy
0:48:07.040,0:48:13.680
and i wish you good luck and that was
0:48:10.480,0:48:16.800
it so okay
0:48:13.680,0:48:19.119
fine he also
0:48:16.800,0:48:20.319
asked if he wanted to have an extra
0:48:19.119,0:48:24.319
ultrasound in week
0:48:20.319,0:48:26.240
34 just because of the feet and
0:48:24.319,0:48:27.359
of course i wanted to see my baby one
0:48:26.240,0:48:30.720
more time
0:48:27.359,0:48:33.920
before the birth
0:48:30.720,0:48:34.800
and he also said i will send your
0:48:33.920,0:48:37.839
information
0:48:34.800,0:48:40.160
to a doctor that will
0:48:37.839,0:48:41.520
give you information about what to do
0:48:40.160,0:48:44.319
when the baby is born
0:48:41.520,0:48:45.119
with the feet and then you will have a
0:48:44.319,0:48:47.680
time and
0:48:45.119,0:48:48.960
to sit down with this doctor and this
0:48:47.680,0:48:51.680
doctor is
0:48:48.960,0:48:52.319
a very very good doctor he has all the
0:48:51.680,0:48:55.760
babies
0:48:52.319,0:48:59.440
in our region so he handles a lot of
0:48:55.760,0:49:02.559
those cases every year so
0:48:59.440,0:49:05.200
yeah we went home and
0:49:02.559,0:49:06.800
continued and now we are approaching
0:49:05.200,0:49:09.839
christmas
0:49:06.800,0:49:13.599
and what i failed to uh
0:49:09.839,0:49:16.720
tell you before is that my older sister
0:49:13.599,0:49:21.920
she is six weeks before me
0:49:16.720,0:49:25.119
in her pregnancy at the same time
0:49:21.920,0:49:28.000
so to meet her in christmas was really
0:49:25.119,0:49:31.280
exciting we compared our
0:49:28.000,0:49:34.160
baby bumps i was
0:49:31.280,0:49:35.920
a little bit bigger than her even though
0:49:34.160,0:49:39.760
she was uh
0:49:35.920,0:49:42.000
six weeks right before me yeah yeah
0:49:39.760,0:49:42.960
so we were laughing about that my family
0:49:42.000,0:49:46.160
was teasing me
0:49:42.960,0:49:47.680
oh you're so big are you sure it's not
0:49:46.160,0:49:49.920
twins
0:49:47.680,0:49:52.240
yes i am sure there's no queen pizza
0:49:49.920,0:49:55.359
it's only one
0:49:52.240,0:49:59.280
and we were talking about
0:49:55.359,0:50:02.640
the gender of the baby
0:49:59.280,0:50:06.160
we didn't want to know the baby's gender
0:50:02.640,0:50:09.359
we wanted to wait until birth and
0:50:06.160,0:50:10.559
this also for my sister and her
0:50:09.359,0:50:14.880
boyfriend
0:50:10.559,0:50:17.359
but they had the feeling because
0:50:14.880,0:50:18.160
their ultrasound the midwife
0:50:17.359,0:50:21.440
accidentally
0:50:18.160,0:50:23.760
showed some parts oops
0:50:21.440,0:50:25.359
and i looked at her and i said you're
0:50:23.760,0:50:28.559
going to have a baby girl
0:50:25.359,0:50:29.680
and i am going to have a baby girl i i
0:50:28.559,0:50:33.599
hate this feeling
0:50:29.680,0:50:37.200
that we were both for having girls
0:50:33.599,0:50:40.880
after christmas i started to feel ill
0:50:37.200,0:50:43.760
um i was feeling
0:50:40.880,0:50:46.240
nauseous more than i had early in the
0:50:43.760,0:50:46.240
pregnancy
0:50:46.319,0:50:50.480
and when i went to see my midwife on the
0:50:49.520,0:50:54.960
checkups
0:50:50.480,0:50:58.160
and i gave her the urine sample and she
0:50:54.960,0:50:58.640
could see that i was leaking protein and
0:50:58.160,0:51:03.200
this is
0:50:58.640,0:51:06.400
a indication of preeclampsia
0:51:03.200,0:51:08.079
so she checked my
0:51:06.400,0:51:10.160
blood pressure and stuff like that to
0:51:08.079,0:51:13.599
make sure i didn't get
0:51:10.160,0:51:16.640
preeclampsia so i started
0:51:13.599,0:51:17.280
also to get a little scared what if i
0:51:16.640,0:51:19.920
have that
0:51:17.280,0:51:23.839
because i know how dangerous this is
0:51:19.920,0:51:23.839
what what is precapsule
0:51:24.240,0:51:30.480
i i can't tell you in english
0:51:27.280,0:51:33.599
okay actually i'm just looking now
0:51:30.480,0:51:34.400
yeah um go do that i think i'll chip in
0:51:33.599,0:51:37.440
here it's
0:51:34.400,0:51:38.960
i'm just reading this from the internet
0:51:37.440,0:51:41.040
it's a condition that affects some
0:51:38.960,0:51:42.960
pregnant woman usually during the second
0:51:41.040,0:51:47.760
half of pregnancy
0:51:42.960,0:51:47.760
uh or soon after the baby is delivered
0:51:48.839,0:51:54.240
symptoms
0:51:51.119,0:51:56.960
can include high blood pressure protein
0:51:54.240,0:52:00.000
in your urine which you mentioned
0:51:56.960,0:52:00.480
um you can have swelling of the feet
0:52:00.000,0:52:03.520
hand
0:52:00.480,0:52:07.200
ankles headaches vision problems
0:52:03.520,0:52:11.760
okay so symptoms that would affect
0:52:07.200,0:52:14.960
you as opposed to the child yeah okay
0:52:11.760,0:52:18.079
and if it continues it can be
0:52:14.960,0:52:21.520
fatal both for the baby and the mother
0:52:18.079,0:52:24.880
so they needed to really
0:52:21.520,0:52:27.440
have a close eye on me because i did
0:52:24.880,0:52:29.359
have high blood pressure i had the
0:52:27.440,0:52:32.960
protein in my urine
0:52:29.359,0:52:35.760
and i did have my feet swelling
0:52:32.960,0:52:37.760
and also i noticed that my on the lip
0:52:35.760,0:52:40.880
was swelling some morning
0:52:37.760,0:52:41.440
and then um during the day it calmed
0:52:40.880,0:52:44.319
down
0:52:41.440,0:52:46.319
to the normal size is that a symptom of
0:52:44.319,0:52:49.680
preeclampsia the lips yeah
0:52:46.319,0:52:52.559
i wasn't aware of that it can be
0:52:49.680,0:52:54.400
and for on me it was it was an early
0:52:52.559,0:52:58.000
sign
0:52:54.400,0:53:01.119
um and then in
0:52:58.000,0:53:04.480
week 32 i think it was
0:53:01.119,0:53:07.920
i started to have contractions
0:53:04.480,0:53:09.520
and at first i didn't feel the
0:53:07.920,0:53:13.599
contractions i did have
0:53:09.520,0:53:16.720
some conjunctions just one at a time
0:53:13.599,0:53:18.079
and that i knew was normal because the
0:53:16.720,0:53:22.160
body is preparing for
0:53:18.079,0:53:24.800
birth so i wasn't concerned about this
0:53:22.160,0:53:26.559
but i had to go in for a checkup because
0:53:24.800,0:53:29.920
of
0:53:26.559,0:53:33.200
my blood pressure and stuff like that so
0:53:29.920,0:53:36.640
when i was there to
0:53:33.200,0:53:39.920
legal these tests and shake up
0:53:36.640,0:53:43.280
and they noticed that stuff
0:53:39.920,0:53:46.319
they didn't tell me right away but
0:53:43.280,0:53:49.599
they called the the delivery unit
0:53:46.319,0:53:53.119
in the hospital and told them that
0:53:49.599,0:53:56.480
i had to go there and do some more
0:53:53.119,0:54:01.359
tests so they told me you go out there
0:53:56.480,0:54:03.920
they know that you're coming and
0:54:01.359,0:54:05.200
they do the tests and then they will
0:54:03.920,0:54:09.040
help you
0:54:05.200,0:54:12.400
and when i was came there they put this
0:54:09.040,0:54:14.880
ctg on me to listen to the baby's
0:54:12.400,0:54:17.599
heartbeating and to monitor this
0:54:14.880,0:54:18.160
during the time of star what i didn't
0:54:17.599,0:54:21.280
know
0:54:18.160,0:54:24.319
at first was that they also monitored
0:54:21.280,0:54:25.920
that i had contractions i didn't feel
0:54:24.319,0:54:28.559
them at first
0:54:25.920,0:54:29.920
but one midwife came in to me when i was
0:54:28.559,0:54:32.559
lying there and listening
0:54:29.920,0:54:33.440
to the heart video of the baby and she
0:54:32.559,0:54:36.160
asked me
0:54:33.440,0:54:36.720
do you feel the contractions i looked at
0:54:36.160,0:54:40.240
her and
0:54:36.720,0:54:42.720
no i don't feel any contractions
0:54:40.240,0:54:44.240
well you do have contractions and she
0:54:42.720,0:54:45.839
showed me on the screen that
0:54:44.240,0:54:48.079
hear the heartbeat and here are your
0:54:45.839,0:54:52.640
contractions
0:54:48.079,0:54:53.760
after that i felt the contractions okay
0:54:52.640,0:54:56.240
is that because you were aware of them
0:54:53.760,0:54:58.799
now or they just got worse
0:54:56.240,0:55:00.559
or both i think yeah it was both they
0:54:58.799,0:55:03.599
got worse and i knew
0:55:00.559,0:55:04.799
what this was i was feeling right yeah
0:55:03.599,0:55:07.920
it was explained to you
0:55:04.799,0:55:10.559
yeah so they told me um
0:55:07.920,0:55:12.160
because of the contractions contractions
0:55:10.559,0:55:15.760
you are
0:55:12.160,0:55:18.640
in danger of premature premature birth
0:55:15.760,0:55:19.280
so we are going to send you to nurse
0:55:18.640,0:55:21.839
shopping
0:55:19.280,0:55:23.760
i was in lean shopping at the time those
0:55:21.839,0:55:28.160
cities are pretty close to each other
0:55:23.760,0:55:29.839
and cooperate and because of that it was
0:55:28.160,0:55:31.359
still pretty early in the pregnancy i
0:55:29.839,0:55:35.520
was going to end up in
0:55:31.359,0:55:39.040
the neo-natal if the baby was
0:55:35.520,0:55:40.319
born and lean shopping is a educational
0:55:39.040,0:55:42.640
hospital
0:55:40.319,0:55:43.359
so they have babies there that are born
0:55:42.640,0:55:47.440
from week
0:55:43.359,0:55:50.799
22. wow so they didn't have a
0:55:47.440,0:55:53.200
space for me and my baby so they sent me
0:55:50.799,0:55:56.000
to nor shopping
0:55:53.200,0:55:57.920
and that is my birth city so that was
0:55:56.000,0:55:59.359
fine i knew the city i knew the hospital
0:55:57.920,0:56:02.000
there
0:55:59.359,0:56:03.200
so i called my husband because he wasn't
0:56:02.000,0:56:06.400
with me that day
0:56:03.200,0:56:09.760
he was at home relaxing so
0:56:06.400,0:56:12.720
good for him okay good for him
0:56:09.760,0:56:14.839
yeah you're going through other testing
0:56:12.720,0:56:16.880
he's just
0:56:14.839,0:56:19.520
yeah i did let him
0:56:16.880,0:56:21.200
be home relaxing i was because he had
0:56:19.520,0:56:23.440
worked there
0:56:21.200,0:56:23.440
okay
0:56:26.160,0:56:32.240
yeah we went in our shopping and i was
0:56:28.880,0:56:35.040
given those injections to make sure
0:56:32.240,0:56:35.680
they were stopping the contractions and
0:56:35.040,0:56:38.720
also
0:56:35.680,0:56:41.839
to make sure the baby's lungs
0:56:38.720,0:56:46.720
were developed quickly if
0:56:41.839,0:56:46.720
the baby was going to be coming out
0:56:46.799,0:56:52.720
and we spent the weekend in our shopping
0:56:49.839,0:56:53.119
and then we could go home but they told
0:56:52.720,0:56:55.119
me
0:56:53.119,0:56:57.920
you are not working anymore because i
0:56:55.119,0:56:58.880
had still planned on working one more
0:56:57.920,0:57:02.400
week and then
0:56:58.880,0:57:05.040
be home on mater alternatively
0:57:02.400,0:57:07.200
so i was yeah fine it's only one week i
0:57:05.040,0:57:10.559
can be home
0:57:07.200,0:57:12.000
uh so i was home relaxing not doing
0:57:10.559,0:57:15.119
anything because i
0:57:12.000,0:57:18.160
they did tell me to not cook not
0:57:15.119,0:57:18.720
clean not doing laundry my husband had
0:57:18.160,0:57:21.359
to do
0:57:18.720,0:57:24.799
all those my father doesn't do those
0:57:21.359,0:57:24.799
things either and she's not pregnant
0:57:25.680,0:57:28.480
i was just wondering if there's a way
0:57:26.960,0:57:30.799
that i could get a doctor's note to not
0:57:28.480,0:57:30.799
do this
0:57:31.200,0:57:35.200
yeah that is we prayed exactly
0:57:35.680,0:57:39.599
ryan if i was pregnant i would be
0:57:37.599,0:57:43.280
wanting a lot more
0:57:39.599,0:57:47.200
attention for that um yes
0:57:43.280,0:57:50.240
and money well
0:57:47.200,0:57:54.240
yeah so that week i was home i
0:57:50.240,0:57:57.839
came into week 33 and
0:57:54.240,0:58:01.040
monday when i came into week 34
0:57:57.839,0:58:02.400
that was the day we had our extra
0:58:01.040,0:58:04.960
ultrasound
0:58:02.400,0:58:06.640
and we also met the doctor about the
0:58:04.960,0:58:09.599
baby's feet
0:58:06.640,0:58:10.960
and i had another checkup because of my
0:58:09.599,0:58:14.000
blood pressure and
0:58:10.960,0:58:15.760
now i was eating medication to make it
0:58:14.000,0:58:18.480
go down
0:58:15.760,0:58:20.160
so my blood pressure had gone gone down
0:58:18.480,0:58:23.040
so that was good
0:58:20.160,0:58:23.599
and the doctor explained about the how
0:58:23.040,0:58:26.319
they
0:58:23.599,0:58:27.920
do with the feet of the baby when it's
0:58:26.319,0:58:31.200
born
0:58:27.920,0:58:34.640
and then we went for
0:58:31.200,0:58:38.079
our last ultrasound and
0:58:34.640,0:58:38.480
this time it was a female doctor with
0:58:38.079,0:58:41.440
her
0:58:38.480,0:58:41.839
students so they were too dark and it
0:58:41.440,0:58:45.760
was an
0:58:41.839,0:58:48.559
educational moment for the students
0:58:45.760,0:58:49.440
and i was just laying there on the bed
0:58:48.559,0:58:53.920
relaxing
0:58:49.440,0:58:57.599
enjoying seeing my baby one more time
0:58:53.920,0:59:00.799
and she checked the brain
0:58:57.599,0:59:03.520
the heart liver the
0:59:00.799,0:59:05.040
kidneys to make sure everything was
0:59:03.520,0:59:08.319
functional
0:59:05.040,0:59:10.880
and she could see urine in
0:59:08.319,0:59:12.160
the bladder of the baby so she told us
0:59:10.880,0:59:15.680
that this is good
0:59:12.160,0:59:16.720
if you can see this and then she shake
0:59:15.680,0:59:19.839
the brain again
0:59:16.720,0:59:20.240
and the heart again and this was when i
0:59:19.839,0:59:23.520
was
0:59:20.240,0:59:26.559
starting to feel something is wrong
0:59:23.520,0:59:27.359
and then she she checked the brain and
0:59:26.559,0:59:31.040
the heart
0:59:27.359,0:59:34.319
a third time and this time
0:59:31.040,0:59:38.000
it was like i had this really cold
0:59:34.319,0:59:38.559
hand ice cold hand taking a hold of my
0:59:38.000,0:59:41.040
heart
0:59:38.559,0:59:42.319
and squeezing really really hard a
0:59:41.040,0:59:47.760
feeling of dread
0:59:42.319,0:59:50.799
yes something is wrong what is wrong
0:59:47.760,0:59:54.880
and he also started
0:59:50.799,0:59:56.319
speaking talking and showing us what she
0:59:54.880,0:59:59.520
was looking at
0:59:56.319,1:00:00.000
and she grew quiet so this was also an
0:59:59.520,1:00:02.400
indication
1:00:00.000,1:00:03.599
that something was wrong yeah when the
1:00:02.400,1:00:06.160
doctor started to stop
1:00:03.599,1:00:07.040
talking that's a severe worry sometimes
1:00:06.160,1:00:10.319
yeah
1:00:07.040,1:00:11.520
yeah but we waited we didn't say
1:00:10.319,1:00:14.559
anything
1:00:11.520,1:00:17.680
and she finished and she asked us to
1:00:14.559,1:00:21.839
sit down at her desk so
1:00:17.680,1:00:25.359
she could read in my journal
1:00:21.839,1:00:28.720
do you see journal yeah and your notes
1:00:25.359,1:00:31.040
maybe notes yeah thank you
1:00:28.720,1:00:32.480
so she was reading in my notes to see
1:00:31.040,1:00:34.640
what has been
1:00:32.480,1:00:35.599
happening before in the pregnancy and
1:00:34.640,1:00:38.720
what they have
1:00:35.599,1:00:39.119
written and stuff like that and then she
1:00:38.720,1:00:42.720
told
1:00:39.119,1:00:45.839
us it's a lot of shadows
1:00:42.720,1:00:49.599
where the head of the baby is laying so
1:00:45.839,1:00:52.640
i am not sure but what i can see
1:00:49.599,1:00:56.640
is that there is a lot of fluids
1:00:52.640,1:01:00.640
in the ventricular trickles in the brain
1:00:56.640,1:01:04.960
and there is too much fluid the limit is
1:01:00.640,1:01:09.040
11 no 10 millimeters and i
1:01:04.960,1:01:12.880
can see it is 11 millimeters
1:01:09.040,1:01:16.240
so that made us really really anxious
1:01:12.880,1:01:19.520
and scared and she said to us that
1:01:16.240,1:01:23.359
there could be nothing and you also
1:01:19.520,1:01:25.040
have a lot of fluid there is too much
1:01:23.359,1:01:28.640
fluid
1:01:25.040,1:01:31.680
in your in the stomach
1:01:28.640,1:01:33.839
so um what we can do is we can drain
1:01:31.680,1:01:34.559
some fluids to make it easier for you
1:01:33.839,1:01:37.200
the last
1:01:34.559,1:01:38.160
couple of weeks in your pregnancy and i
1:01:37.200,1:01:41.200
will talk with
1:01:38.160,1:01:42.079
my colleagues and the other doctors and
1:01:41.200,1:01:45.280
ask
1:01:42.079,1:01:49.280
if we're maybe doing a
1:01:45.280,1:01:52.640
scan of the baby to see what is wrong
1:01:49.280,1:01:54.240
we will be in touch with you later this
1:01:52.640,1:01:57.039
week
1:01:54.240,1:01:58.400
and then we were given a disappointment
1:01:57.039,1:02:01.520
to come back
1:01:58.400,1:02:04.799
on the friday to drain some fluid
1:02:01.520,1:02:04.799
and then we went home
1:02:05.039,1:02:12.480
and uh that evening my sister called me
1:02:09.280,1:02:15.119
she had her baby that weekend so
1:02:12.480,1:02:16.000
we talked about her the birth of her
1:02:15.119,1:02:20.000
baby girl
1:02:16.000,1:02:23.119
i was right colder
1:02:20.000,1:02:26.480
and i didn't uh
1:02:23.119,1:02:29.359
want to share my uh anxious
1:02:26.480,1:02:29.839
my the feelings with her because she
1:02:29.359,1:02:33.599
wasn't
1:02:29.839,1:02:36.240
a newborn had a newborn at home so
1:02:33.599,1:02:37.920
at first i didn't want to say anything
1:02:36.240,1:02:42.079
but when she asked me how i
1:02:37.920,1:02:44.400
was doing how the ultrasound had gone
1:02:42.079,1:02:45.119
i told her that we were really scared i
1:02:44.400,1:02:49.280
told her
1:02:45.119,1:02:52.079
how it had been what had went down there
1:02:49.280,1:02:52.799
and the bigger sis the big sister she is
1:02:52.079,1:02:56.160
she was
1:02:52.799,1:02:57.039
trying to calm me down there is nothing
1:02:56.160,1:02:59.680
to worry
1:02:57.039,1:03:00.480
11 millimeters it's so tiny there's
1:02:59.680,1:03:03.920
nothing to
1:03:00.480,1:03:07.920
be worried about just trust the doctors
1:03:03.920,1:03:07.920
they will make sure everything is fine
1:03:08.160,1:03:11.920
i got pretty upset i got angry at her i
1:03:11.440,1:03:15.200
was
1:03:11.920,1:03:19.039
you have your baby your baby is healthy
1:03:15.200,1:03:21.920
don't talk down to me
1:03:19.039,1:03:23.839
don't make my feelings about this
1:03:21.920,1:03:25.839
invalid
1:03:23.839,1:03:27.599
but i didn't say this because i didn't
1:03:25.839,1:03:30.240
want us to start an
1:03:27.599,1:03:31.839
argument so it was uh thank you for
1:03:30.240,1:03:35.280
listening to me
1:03:31.839,1:03:35.280
and then we ended the call
1:03:36.720,1:03:40.000
yeah very difficult obviously you're
1:03:38.400,1:03:41.920
going through that and
1:03:40.000,1:03:43.599
having seen somebody get to the end of
1:03:41.920,1:03:45.280
the completion of their baby
1:03:43.599,1:03:46.880
arriving i can understand the emotions
1:03:45.280,1:03:47.839
you must have been going through i just
1:03:46.880,1:03:49.440
i just imagine
1:03:47.839,1:03:51.599
i don't know if i could quite understand
1:03:49.440,1:03:52.960
but um
1:03:51.599,1:03:55.039
it sounds like it we're doing a tough
1:03:52.960,1:03:58.400
difficult time yeah
1:03:55.039,1:04:01.440
because yeah again this horrible
1:03:58.400,1:04:04.960
blindfold the rollercoaster
1:04:01.440,1:04:04.960
uh it was back again
1:04:05.440,1:04:13.520
yeah uh we never came to friday
1:04:09.359,1:04:17.680
uh we are in february february now
1:04:13.520,1:04:20.000
at the beginning uh on tuesday
1:04:17.680,1:04:20.880
i went in to lean shopping to have a
1:04:20.000,1:04:23.839
massage and
1:04:20.880,1:04:25.760
cut my hair because i think it was
1:04:23.839,1:04:28.960
getting too long
1 hr 47 min
January 26, 2021 I Conceive But Can't Carry Children
Linzi (Ryan's sister) can conceive but struggles to carry children full term due to a blood disorder where her blood doesn't clot. She also has lipodystrophy syndrome, meaning she can't produce fat. She talks in full about conception and the reasons why she can't carry babies, the signs to look out for and the journey of going through IVF treatment. She also discusses living with children in the family despite not having her own.----more----
0:00:00.000,0:00:06.799
you have to have a bmi of under 35
0:00:03.840,0:00:08.320
now i struggle to lose weight but i
0:00:06.799,0:00:11.840
pushed and pushed and i got
0:00:08.320,0:00:12.719
myself down to 32.5 i went up to the
0:00:11.840,0:00:14.920
hospital
0:00:12.719,0:00:17.400
and they told me that the guidelines had
0:00:14.920,0:00:18.500
changed
0:00:17.400,0:00:23.680
[Applause]
0:00:18.500,0:00:26.160
[Music]
0:00:23.680,0:00:28.240
hi welcome to the show this is is it
0:00:26.160,0:00:30.400
just me the podcast which
0:00:28.240,0:00:31.840
you don't usually have me stop so that's
0:00:30.400,0:00:34.480
a bit weird for a start
0:00:31.840,0:00:34.880
and the reason why i've it is weird that
0:00:34.480,0:00:37.200
i'm
0:00:34.880,0:00:37.920
like taking over hosting g's ha ha this
0:00:37.200,0:00:38.250
is my show
0:00:37.920,0:00:40.960
i'm off
0:00:38.250,0:00:42.320
[Laughter]
0:00:40.960,0:00:44.079
so paul and i are with you again as
0:00:42.320,0:00:44.960
always and the reason why this one is a
0:00:44.079,0:00:48.559
little bit different
0:00:44.960,0:00:51.199
is that our guest is family
0:00:48.559,0:00:53.039
so that's always a bit weird right
0:00:51.199,0:00:54.640
definite first time for everything
0:00:53.039,0:00:56.320
there is a first time for everything so
0:00:54.640,0:00:59.039
we've done a few episodes now
0:00:56.320,0:01:00.719
based on um what factors and
0:00:59.039,0:01:03.280
considerations you have to make
0:01:00.719,0:01:04.479
in order to have children whether you're
0:01:03.280,0:01:05.760
going to have children or not have
0:01:04.479,0:01:07.680
children
0:01:05.760,0:01:09.680
and the choices and the considerations
0:01:07.680,0:01:11.760
that go hand in hand with that now
0:01:09.680,0:01:12.880
we're trying to cover kind of mundane
0:01:11.760,0:01:14.560
things or
0:01:12.880,0:01:16.240
things that are normal you know real
0:01:14.560,0:01:18.400
life real people
0:01:16.240,0:01:21.119
and the reason why we think this is
0:01:18.400,0:01:23.840
really interesting is because people
0:01:21.119,0:01:24.720
don't really talk about it openly as
0:01:23.840,0:01:26.799
much as
0:01:24.720,0:01:29.280
you would think they would since this is
0:01:26.799,0:01:30.960
meant to be so normal and so mundane
0:01:29.280,0:01:32.799
um and we found some really really
0:01:30.960,0:01:34.320
interesting people up till now
0:01:32.799,0:01:37.280
and unfortunately now all we're left
0:01:34.320,0:01:37.280
with is my sister
0:01:37.680,0:01:42.720
thanks for watching
0:01:40.120,0:01:45.439
[Laughter]
0:01:42.720,0:01:47.360
i know so my sister has some unique
0:01:45.439,0:01:50.560
insight on this this is lindsay
0:01:47.360,0:01:52.159
she's with us today and she has a unique
0:01:50.560,0:01:55.040
insight on this because it's
0:01:52.159,0:01:56.560
um the other side of the coin to what
0:01:55.040,0:01:59.040
the other episodes have
0:01:56.560,0:02:00.719
been looking at and we thought that it
0:01:59.040,0:02:01.920
was good to explore kind of different
0:02:00.719,0:02:03.920
angles different avenues
0:02:01.920,0:02:07.040
and and get kind of a rounded picture
0:02:03.920,0:02:08.399
for the entire season so we're probably
0:02:07.040,0:02:11.360
paul and i have discussed it and we're
0:02:08.399,0:02:14.000
hoping that it's not going to be
0:02:11.360,0:02:15.920
um a one-sided thing and that we might
0:02:14.000,0:02:18.400
find another couple of people who can
0:02:15.920,0:02:20.080
kind of flesh out the other side of the
0:02:18.400,0:02:23.920
the conversation
0:02:20.080,0:02:26.239
so lindsay hello i'm sorry i've already
0:02:23.920,0:02:27.680
already made fun of you in the first in
0:02:26.239,0:02:29.200
the intro which is
0:02:27.680,0:02:30.640
which is mean so i'm sorry but i
0:02:29.200,0:02:33.360
wouldn't usually do that to a guests i
0:02:30.640,0:02:35.040
know i'm sorry i apologize already
0:02:33.360,0:02:36.239
it's what happens when it's familiar you
0:02:35.040,0:02:37.920
can get you can get away with that have
0:02:36.239,0:02:38.720
you noticed i haven't said anything mean
0:02:37.920,0:02:40.879
because
0:02:38.720,0:02:43.440
that's not something that's going to end
0:02:40.879,0:02:43.440
well for me
0:02:43.680,0:02:48.160
no what have you got to say this mean i
0:02:46.319,0:02:51.280
could say things about you but i would
0:02:48.160,0:02:53.440
i won't do that i've got a bad
0:02:51.280,0:02:54.400
bad good cup going on here then yes you
0:02:53.440,0:02:57.440
do you do
0:02:54.400,0:03:02.879
once you tell us about yourself
0:02:57.440,0:03:07.840
um um a 33 year old married woman
0:03:02.879,0:03:11.680
and a busy job
0:03:07.840,0:03:12.720
a small family um i don't know what else
0:03:11.680,0:03:16.480
to tell you
0:03:12.720,0:03:19.519
what do you do i'm i am a manager
0:03:16.480,0:03:22.480
of a retail store
0:03:19.519,0:03:23.360
okay and we're here to talk to you
0:03:22.480,0:03:27.760
because
0:03:23.360,0:03:27.760
you really want kids is that fair to say
0:03:28.159,0:03:35.440
yes um
0:03:31.760,0:03:39.920
i'd say now i i don't really
0:03:35.440,0:03:42.159
want as much as i did and but yes
0:03:39.920,0:03:43.200
yeah just to put into context isn't it
0:03:42.159,0:03:45.519
polar
0:03:43.200,0:03:47.120
the reason why that has now changed is
0:03:45.519,0:03:49.519
because it's been such a long time
0:03:47.120,0:03:51.200
as uh lindsay's wanting children for a
0:03:49.519,0:03:54.640
long long time
0:03:51.200,0:03:57.120
and has been kind of unable due to
0:03:54.640,0:03:58.879
medical and other kind of things that
0:03:57.120,0:04:02.159
have been going on in her life
0:03:58.879,0:04:03.519
and that's the kind of things we want to
0:04:02.159,0:04:05.519
get into today lindsay is
0:04:03.519,0:04:07.040
could you explain just some of the
0:04:05.519,0:04:08.959
medical reasons
0:04:07.040,0:04:11.840
that have prevented you and some of the
0:04:08.959,0:04:14.000
things that the doctors have said to you
0:04:11.840,0:04:15.519
um that you would have to do in order to
0:04:14.000,0:04:18.320
make
0:04:15.519,0:04:19.519
um for them to help you with pregnancy
0:04:18.320,0:04:21.680
yep
0:04:19.519,0:04:23.199
um so i have no problem in getting
0:04:21.680,0:04:26.840
pregnant
0:04:23.199,0:04:30.560
and pretty easy in that department
0:04:26.840,0:04:34.639
and the carrying the child
0:04:30.560,0:04:34.639
because i have something called
0:04:35.680,0:04:44.400
now i need to get this right um
0:04:40.639,0:04:44.400
i can't even remember what's cold now
0:04:46.000,0:04:50.720
i have a blood disorder anyway okay and
0:04:48.800,0:04:53.199
it means that my blood doesn't clot the
0:04:50.720,0:04:57.280
way as normal people do
0:04:53.199,0:05:00.479
and so when the the
0:04:57.280,0:05:02.560
egg attaches to the wall the wall then
0:05:00.479,0:05:06.720
breaks down
0:05:02.560,0:05:11.280
because it can't gel properly
0:05:06.720,0:05:12.800
and there is ways to stop that happening
0:05:11.280,0:05:15.840
but you need to be able to see a
0:05:12.800,0:05:18.720
heartbeat for the fetus before you can
0:05:15.840,0:05:21.039
get the injection you need to stop that
0:05:18.720,0:05:24.320
i can never get that far
0:05:21.039,0:05:26.320
and the one time i did and we were all
0:05:24.320,0:05:29.680
excited and then i
0:05:26.320,0:05:31.600
actually lost two days before the
0:05:29.680,0:05:35.039
appointment
0:05:31.600,0:05:37.199
um so
0:05:35.039,0:05:38.160
that is one of their shoes they also say
0:05:37.199,0:05:42.800
i'm overweight
0:05:38.160,0:05:47.120
which i am but um i think they use that
0:05:42.800,0:05:50.400
very widely for a lot of issues um
0:05:47.120,0:05:53.759
and just in general
0:05:50.400,0:05:55.520
i've got diabetes and
0:05:53.759,0:05:57.360
so that would cause a lot of issues as
0:05:55.520,0:06:01.440
well
0:05:57.360,0:06:02.960
i've also got a liver disorder um
0:06:01.440,0:06:05.600
it doesn't really cause me any day to
0:06:02.960,0:06:07.600
day issues but if i was to fall pregnant
0:06:05.600,0:06:11.280
again and carry full term
0:06:07.600,0:06:15.680
i could have something life threatening
0:06:11.280,0:06:18.319
and so it now it comes down to
0:06:15.680,0:06:18.319
is it worth
0:06:19.120,0:06:24.000
having a baby for my husband to then be
0:06:21.360,0:06:25.759
a single father kind of thing
0:06:24.000,0:06:27.759
to ask that how do you how do you weigh
0:06:25.759,0:06:30.080
up that balance
0:06:27.759,0:06:31.440
um for me i would be giving my husband
0:06:30.080,0:06:35.520
something that
0:06:31.440,0:06:39.120
i think he deserves and and naturally
0:06:35.520,0:06:39.120
wants and
0:06:39.199,0:06:45.840
but is it fair on that child to
0:06:42.319,0:06:45.840
then have no mother
0:06:46.840,0:06:53.520
and my husband is a very
0:06:50.400,0:06:55.840
divine muslim well
0:06:53.520,0:06:56.720
yeah it's a few reasons probably not the
0:06:55.840,0:07:00.080
words
0:06:56.720,0:07:03.919
yeah maybe not as devout as most people
0:07:00.080,0:07:06.319
in the uk are about their religions
0:07:03.919,0:07:08.639
yeah it doesn't eat pork it that way
0:07:06.319,0:07:10.240
okay um
0:07:08.639,0:07:10.610
and is that as bad as different as it
0:07:10.240,0:07:12.639
gets
0:07:10.610,0:07:16.960
[Laughter]
0:07:12.639,0:07:16.960
it is right there you go we've
0:07:18.960,0:07:24.960
coming from that culture it's all about
0:07:22.400,0:07:28.840
big families and family
0:07:24.960,0:07:30.479
and so that makes it a lot harder for
0:07:28.840,0:07:32.800
him
0:07:30.479,0:07:36.720
i suppose like he's he's not fulfilled
0:07:32.800,0:07:40.240
his duty as the oldest son in his family
0:07:36.720,0:07:45.039
and so i find that hard
0:07:40.240,0:07:47.120
that i've let him down but
0:07:45.039,0:07:48.879
i think he would i don't think he'd cope
0:07:47.120,0:07:52.960
on his own to be honest
0:07:48.879,0:07:52.960
um i've seen him babysit
0:07:53.199,0:08:01.280
um yeah so and he's even said he would
0:07:58.160,0:08:02.639
rather have me than a child so we've
0:08:01.280,0:08:03.840
said the same though i mean obviously
0:08:02.639,0:08:06.479
i've gotten
0:08:03.840,0:08:07.199
an odd invested interest in this with
0:08:06.479,0:08:10.319
you being
0:08:07.199,0:08:13.199
family not just a guest on the show
0:08:10.319,0:08:14.319
so obviously i think the same way i'd
0:08:13.199,0:08:16.879
rather have you around
0:08:14.319,0:08:19.759
than you risk that but also if it was
0:08:16.879,0:08:21.919
possible i would wish that for you
0:08:19.759,0:08:23.039
you know i would i want you guys to have
0:08:21.919,0:08:24.960
everything that you
0:08:23.039,0:08:28.400
you want but i also don't want you to
0:08:24.960,0:08:31.520
risk your life to get it
0:08:28.400,0:08:32.959
so for me it's it's it's hard because
0:08:31.520,0:08:35.760
obviously i'm a bit selfish and i would
0:08:32.959,0:08:38.719
like to keep you around
0:08:35.760,0:08:41.200
thanks of course you've made up for your
0:08:38.719,0:08:44.479
earlier comments i think
0:08:41.200,0:08:44.479
oh i've got a long way ago
0:08:45.120,0:08:48.800
i mean more than i'm nice yeah just
0:08:48.160,0:08:50.000
about
0:08:48.800,0:08:54.640
lindsay i thought it was interesting you
0:08:50.000,0:08:58.399
said that you've let your husband down
0:08:54.640,0:09:02.800
yeah i feel like i've not it's like
0:08:58.399,0:09:03.839
it's like the norm isn't it like a woman
0:09:02.800,0:09:06.640
should get married
0:09:03.839,0:09:06.640
have a baby
0:09:07.279,0:09:13.360
bring up the baby carry on the jeans
0:09:10.560,0:09:15.600
my i feel like i've not given that to my
0:09:13.360,0:09:19.279
husband i've kept something from him
0:09:15.600,0:09:24.399
and he's missing out on something that
0:09:19.279,0:09:27.440
naturally should have um
0:09:24.399,0:09:28.959
and i feel like i he gets a bit
0:09:27.440,0:09:30.560
i don't think he does get embarrassed
0:09:28.959,0:09:32.959
but i think
0:09:30.560,0:09:33.920
there's got to be something he feels
0:09:32.959,0:09:35.839
when all his
0:09:33.920,0:09:37.360
cousins his sisters his brothers are
0:09:35.839,0:09:40.640
having babies
0:09:37.360,0:09:43.920
and we're the ones that don't so
0:09:40.640,0:09:46.399
i feel like i've i've made that happen
0:09:43.920,0:09:46.399
for him
0:09:46.720,0:09:49.600
does he know you feel this way if you
0:09:48.399,0:09:50.720
shared what you've just shared with us
0:09:49.600,0:09:53.839
with him
0:09:50.720,0:09:57.920
yep multiple times
0:09:53.839,0:10:01.279
how does he respond that
0:09:57.920,0:10:04.399
in his eyes he has multiple children
0:10:01.279,0:10:07.360
he has three nephews in america
0:10:04.399,0:10:08.320
two nephews in pakistan he's got a
0:10:07.360,0:10:10.240
nephew here
0:10:08.320,0:10:11.680
and he's got a niece here who's heavily
0:10:10.240,0:10:15.120
involved with
0:10:11.680,0:10:16.839
um to him he's got the world he doesn't
0:10:15.120,0:10:21.519
need to then
0:10:16.839,0:10:24.560
sacrifice what could be fatal for me
0:10:21.519,0:10:26.399
to have another baby and
0:10:24.560,0:10:28.240
when he feels blessed to have all these
0:10:26.399,0:10:31.680
already
0:10:28.240,0:10:32.720
and i also think when he babysits for
0:10:31.680,0:10:35.600
overnight
0:10:32.720,0:10:36.959
and he he gets his own time back i think
0:10:35.600,0:10:40.000
he sometimes thinks well
0:10:36.959,0:10:44.079
thank god i've got that this is
0:10:40.000,0:10:44.079
is he like dodged a bullet there
0:10:44.320,0:10:47.760
the fact that you can come in mid
0:10:46.079,0:10:49.680
babysitting and they're all sleeping on
0:10:47.760,0:10:52.880
the couch
0:10:49.680,0:10:54.240
um i think that says it all really
0:10:52.880,0:10:55.839
that's that's a kind of sign of
0:10:54.240,0:10:57.440
parenting generally though i mean there
0:10:55.839,0:10:58.839
is times where it's just absolutely
0:10:57.440,0:11:01.839
exhausting
0:10:58.839,0:11:05.040
um we obviously
0:11:01.839,0:11:07.200
the the dynamic we have is that you you
0:11:05.040,0:11:10.000
are what i expected to be in this whole
0:11:07.200,0:11:12.320
scenario as being the cool auntie
0:11:10.000,0:11:13.920
um i expected to be the cool uncle and
0:11:12.320,0:11:15.680
you have all the kids and me come in and
0:11:13.920,0:11:16.399
be like oh yeah i'll wind up your kids
0:11:15.680,0:11:19.440
and leave
0:11:16.399,0:11:21.360
um and now it feels like that that's
0:11:19.440,0:11:22.640
kind of the tables have turned slightly
0:11:21.360,0:11:24.480
now you complain about people doing that
0:11:22.640,0:11:28.330
to your kids i i
0:11:24.480,0:11:30.320
specifically lindsey and hassan um
0:11:28.330,0:11:33.040
[Laughter]
0:11:30.320,0:11:33.920
i am like the third parent i am not that
0:11:33.040,0:11:37.040
bad
0:11:33.920,0:11:40.399
hassan however will come in and play
0:11:37.040,0:11:42.800
play tickle time 10 minutes before beds
0:11:40.399,0:11:42.800
and
0:11:42.940,0:11:47.290
[Laughter]
0:11:52.639,0:11:56.959
how far along lindsay numbers wise do
0:11:55.200,0:12:00.079
you need to be you spoke about
0:11:56.959,0:12:02.079
um needing to be able to detect the
0:12:00.079,0:12:05.600
heartbeat before
0:12:02.079,0:12:08.800
being given daily over eight weeks
0:12:05.600,0:12:11.440
okay um normal for
0:12:08.800,0:12:13.200
most people it's um 12 weeks is when you
0:12:11.440,0:12:15.360
go for your first scan
0:12:13.200,0:12:18.160
and as soon as i find out i'm pregnant i
0:12:15.360,0:12:21.600
have to get in contact and we have to
0:12:18.160,0:12:23.600
go through all these different um
0:12:21.600,0:12:25.120
questions and then they decide when they
0:12:23.600,0:12:28.320
get me in
0:12:25.120,0:12:32.000
when i moved to fort valley
0:12:28.320,0:12:35.040
um they basically said as soon as you
0:12:32.000,0:12:38.160
get a pregnancy test coming
0:12:35.040,0:12:40.560
um fife however
0:12:38.160,0:12:43.200
told me that i would have to go through
0:12:40.560,0:12:44.800
the normal procedures of a pregnancy
0:12:43.200,0:12:46.959
wait for the midwife wait for the
0:12:44.800,0:12:50.079
letters everything like that
0:12:46.959,0:12:54.079
so i think moving to for family may have
0:12:50.079,0:12:54.079
been a bit late and
0:12:54.399,0:12:57.839
and what they've offered could have been
0:12:56.720,0:13:00.160
a lot better
0:12:57.839,0:13:01.120
earlier on but we've spoke about this
0:13:00.160,0:13:03.040
before paul and i
0:13:01.120,0:13:05.040
and on different shows as well about
0:13:03.040,0:13:08.160
this kind of postcode lottery
0:13:05.040,0:13:10.880
for oh yeah definitely for medical help
0:13:08.160,0:13:12.079
um even now listening to that saying oh
0:13:10.880,0:13:14.240
you've kind of you feel like you've
0:13:12.079,0:13:17.600
stepped up and upgraded that medical
0:13:14.240,0:13:20.079
can access and maybe it's maybe
0:13:17.600,0:13:22.560
it's been a bit late for you um we've
0:13:20.079,0:13:26.079
been speaking to other people in america
0:13:22.560,0:13:28.000
our more recent guests have been
0:13:26.079,0:13:31.040
our previous guests have have all been
0:13:28.000,0:13:33.040
from america and their access to medical
0:13:31.040,0:13:35.120
things is completely different it seems
0:13:33.040,0:13:37.120
like they have
0:13:35.120,0:13:39.040
a different support system completely
0:13:37.120,0:13:41.279
altogether and
0:13:39.040,0:13:42.320
a lot more kind of hand holding and help
0:13:41.279,0:13:43.920
and i don't know if that's because of
0:13:42.320,0:13:46.639
the way their system's paid for
0:13:43.920,0:13:47.440
or just the culture in the country or
0:13:46.639,0:13:49.440
what it is
0:13:47.440,0:13:51.519
but it feels like we've spoken to people
0:13:49.440,0:13:53.760
who have had that access to things
0:13:51.519,0:13:54.639
that possibly you would never have had
0:13:53.760,0:13:57.360
access to
0:13:54.639,0:13:57.680
and that i think you can go over and get
0:13:57.360,0:14:00.959
like
0:13:57.680,0:14:02.560
ivf on your lunch or something like
0:14:00.959,0:14:04.079
it's incredible the difference over
0:14:02.560,0:14:05.440
there
0:14:04.079,0:14:07.760
totally different from from your
0:14:05.440,0:14:10.880
experience here in scotland
0:14:07.760,0:14:12.560
yeah so i got off i got put on the ivf
0:14:10.880,0:14:16.240
referral list
0:14:12.560,0:14:17.199
um and getting on that list is hard
0:14:16.240,0:14:19.839
enough
0:14:17.199,0:14:21.040
but then getting off that list to the
0:14:19.839,0:14:23.839
actual
0:14:21.040,0:14:24.800
procedure is even harder and you have to
0:14:23.839,0:14:29.839
have a bmi
0:14:24.800,0:14:32.399
of the first time it was under
0:14:29.839,0:14:34.959
now i struggle to lose weight because i
0:14:32.399,0:14:34.959
love food
0:14:35.920,0:14:41.279
i also have something called
0:14:37.360,0:14:41.279
lipodystrophy which means i can't
0:14:42.000,0:14:47.440
produce fat on my arms and legs
0:14:45.760,0:14:49.600
and apparently i can't do it on my face
0:14:47.440,0:14:53.920
but i'd beg to differ with that one
0:14:49.600,0:14:56.839
um so it means that
0:14:53.920,0:14:58.000
i find it even harder to lose weight and
0:14:56.839,0:15:01.760
that
0:14:58.000,0:15:02.639
side of it and but i pushed and pushed
0:15:01.760,0:15:06.240
and i got my
0:15:02.639,0:15:07.199
myself down to 32.5 i went up to the
0:15:06.240,0:15:10.800
hospital
0:15:07.199,0:15:12.720
all singing dancing and ready to go
0:15:10.800,0:15:15.040
and they told me that the guidelines had
0:15:12.720,0:15:19.600
changed and you had to be 30 minimum
0:15:15.040,0:15:20.639
wow so as hard as it was to get down to
0:15:19.600,0:15:23.279
that
0:15:20.639,0:15:24.839
i i kind of just gave up i was like it's
0:15:23.279,0:15:26.399
not happening
0:15:24.839,0:15:28.800
yeah time you go they change the goal
0:15:26.399,0:15:31.839
posts how are you meant to win this game
0:15:28.800,0:15:33.360
yes i understand can you remember how
0:15:31.839,0:15:35.040
you felt when you when you were told
0:15:33.360,0:15:37.360
when you went and as you say
0:15:35.040,0:15:39.199
ecstatic elated i imagine having reached
0:15:37.360,0:15:42.639
this target to be told oh by the way the
0:15:39.199,0:15:45.759
target's now 2.5 lower i think i maybe
0:15:42.639,0:15:45.759
went for the mcdonald's
0:15:48.480,0:15:51.759
probably other fast foods are available
0:15:51.199,0:15:54.959
yeah
0:15:51.759,0:15:57.120
i probably went to somewhere very
0:15:54.959,0:15:58.240
unlike what i'd had in the previous
0:15:57.120,0:16:01.759
weeks yeah
0:15:58.240,0:16:05.199
and now to be honest i actually went
0:16:01.759,0:16:07.680
to the gym okay um
0:16:05.199,0:16:09.519
and then realized that even if i i spoke
0:16:07.680,0:16:10.800
to my drum instructor at the time i was
0:16:09.519,0:16:14.000
following this five
0:16:10.800,0:16:15.120
week five days a week very strenuous
0:16:14.000,0:16:18.320
training
0:16:15.120,0:16:19.759
and very strict diet um like
0:16:18.320,0:16:23.199
being sick when you come out of training
0:16:19.759,0:16:24.800
and you've worked that hard and
0:16:23.199,0:16:27.360
i didn't follow it the same as everybody
0:16:24.800,0:16:29.279
else because of diabetes but it did work
0:16:27.360,0:16:31.839
and when i went and spoke to him i broke
0:16:29.279,0:16:35.120
down with my gym instructor and he said
0:16:31.839,0:16:36.639
lindsay you could train and lose loads
0:16:35.120,0:16:39.759
of weight but you could still be up at
0:16:36.639,0:16:41.759
that bmi because muscle weighs
0:16:39.759,0:16:43.680
and stuff frequent these bmis are
0:16:41.759,0:16:47.199
ridiculous
0:16:43.680,0:16:49.199
um so that kind of
0:16:47.199,0:16:50.720
made me think what's the point why am i
0:16:49.199,0:16:54.320
even trying
0:16:50.720,0:16:56.720
um and i think i fell into a hole then
0:16:54.320,0:16:57.839
although the gym had told me to keep
0:16:56.720,0:17:01.040
going i was like no
0:16:57.839,0:17:02.800
what's the point was it was it the lack
0:17:01.040,0:17:04.720
of motivation in your head did you have
0:17:02.800,0:17:05.919
a sort of figure and that kept you going
0:17:04.720,0:17:08.400
throughout the training yeah
0:17:05.919,0:17:10.799
the weight loss i had a goal i had
0:17:08.400,0:17:12.959
something to look forward to
0:17:10.799,0:17:14.880
and then it was just ripped away so far
0:17:12.959,0:17:17.039
well
0:17:14.880,0:17:18.400
i was happy when i wasn't happy but i
0:17:17.039,0:17:22.799
was
0:17:18.400,0:17:25.439
okay being bigger it wasn't a big issue
0:17:22.799,0:17:25.919
um health wise it probably didn't be
0:17:25.439,0:17:28.880
good
0:17:25.919,0:17:30.559
but um it's the back your mind when
0:17:28.880,0:17:33.840
you're
0:17:30.559,0:17:37.039
when you start to feel like that so um
0:17:33.840,0:17:40.400
um yeah
0:17:37.039,0:17:43.600
yeah it's difficult and um
0:17:40.400,0:17:45.600
okay obviously i can see how sad even
0:17:43.600,0:17:46.880
talking about this is making you i know
0:17:45.600,0:17:48.880
you really well so i know
0:17:46.880,0:17:50.240
when your demeanor has changed and even
0:17:48.880,0:17:52.400
from the beginning of this conversation
0:17:50.240,0:17:54.559
i've seen
0:17:52.400,0:17:56.320
bringing this up is painful so thank you
0:17:54.559,0:17:57.840
for sharing it with us because obviously
0:17:56.320,0:18:00.559
like we're not wanting to take a free
0:17:57.840,0:18:03.280
therapy session
0:18:00.559,0:18:04.000
broadcast to the internet broadcast to
0:18:03.280,0:18:06.400
the internet yeah
0:18:04.000,0:18:07.600
if it helps someday soon this is the
0:18:06.400,0:18:09.120
whole class
0:18:07.600,0:18:11.039
yeah that's kind of we spoke about that
0:18:09.120,0:18:11.919
again with a different uh on one of the
0:18:11.039,0:18:14.880
other episodes
0:18:11.919,0:18:16.240
that if we could help or shine a light
0:18:14.880,0:18:18.000
for at least one person
0:18:16.240,0:18:19.760
one other person that listens to this or
0:18:18.000,0:18:23.120
watches this
0:18:19.760,0:18:25.440
then hopefully that has that's the goal
0:18:23.120,0:18:26.559
you know the the some of the things
0:18:25.440,0:18:28.720
we've talked about are
0:18:26.559,0:18:29.919
a little bit serious and a little bit
0:18:28.720,0:18:33.039
serious really serious
0:18:29.919,0:18:36.559
yes and and kind of life
0:18:33.039,0:18:39.039
affecting and very very um
0:18:36.559,0:18:40.400
life-changing for some people and
0:18:39.039,0:18:43.440
especially some of the procedures some
0:18:40.400,0:18:45.520
of the other guests have been through um
0:18:43.440,0:18:48.320
and yours is again the other side of
0:18:45.520,0:18:49.919
that same story whereas
0:18:48.320,0:18:51.679
some of our other guests have not been
0:18:49.919,0:18:54.880
wanting to have children at all
0:18:51.679,0:18:56.240
and you have been wanting all the
0:18:54.880,0:18:58.160
children like you really would
0:18:56.240,0:19:00.880
love to get pregnant and be had all
0:18:58.160,0:19:04.160
these hurdles and obstacles and
0:19:00.880,0:19:08.160
uh it it just it just
0:19:04.160,0:19:12.080
right just really puts into perspective
0:19:08.160,0:19:15.440
how life for everybody is affected and
0:19:12.080,0:19:17.440
it's not just you so
0:19:15.440,0:19:19.600
yeah i think i've remembered did you see
0:19:17.440,0:19:19.600
that
0:19:19.919,0:19:23.840
i think i've wanted well you'll know
0:19:22.160,0:19:24.559
this i've wanted kids since i was like
0:19:23.840,0:19:26.960
10 years
0:19:24.559,0:19:29.120
probably before that when i asked mum
0:19:26.960,0:19:32.480
for baby dolls and
0:19:29.120,0:19:34.320
everything and we used to go to charity
0:19:32.480,0:19:36.000
events and if somebody had a baby stall
0:19:34.320,0:19:38.160
i'd buy every baby
0:19:36.000,0:19:40.160
nutty jumper and like mum can i put that
0:19:38.160,0:19:41.440
in my my bottom drawer
0:19:40.160,0:19:43.120
everybody has a bottom drawer for their
0:19:41.440,0:19:44.480
first house i had a bottom drawer for my
0:19:43.120,0:19:48.480
first baby
0:19:44.480,0:19:50.320
um and
0:19:48.480,0:19:51.760
like when i was at college i was in a
0:19:50.320,0:19:53.760
community care course and you had to
0:19:51.760,0:19:56.160
have the baby overnight
0:19:53.760,0:19:57.520
i asked to be the last one to have it so
0:19:56.160,0:20:00.720
i could have it for a week
0:19:57.520,0:20:02.400
wow um because i was so excited
0:20:00.720,0:20:04.000
like i took it everywhere i had at the
0:20:02.400,0:20:06.960
dinner table there was a lot of family
0:20:04.000,0:20:06.960
arguments over that
0:20:09.360,0:20:12.400
my mom getting up in the middle of the
0:20:10.640,0:20:14.000
night because the keys falling at the
0:20:12.400,0:20:17.440
back and the baby's screaming and i'm
0:20:14.000,0:20:19.919
fast asleep um changed its
0:20:17.440,0:20:22.080
outfits about four times a day i was
0:20:19.919,0:20:25.520
just
0:20:22.080,0:20:27.919
i loved it um see when i had an animal
0:20:25.520,0:20:27.919
baby
0:20:28.720,0:20:32.080
that was the dream at this time
0:20:32.840,0:20:37.200
revolutionary
0:20:35.039,0:20:39.280
so yeah um i went through a few things
0:20:37.200,0:20:41.200
when i was younger though that
0:20:39.280,0:20:42.640
i think everybody said i'd be the first
0:20:41.200,0:20:44.320
person to get married i'd be the first
0:20:42.640,0:20:47.520
person to have a baby
0:20:44.320,0:20:50.880
clearly that was not the case and
0:20:47.520,0:20:52.880
one of my friends had a baby at
0:20:50.880,0:20:54.159
i think she was a week after her 16th
0:20:52.880,0:20:55.600
birthday
0:20:54.159,0:20:57.200
and she was the one that was never
0:20:55.600,0:20:59.120
having a baby
0:20:57.200,0:21:02.799
and so i was like well if you've had one
0:20:59.120,0:21:04.799
it's okay for me to have one now um
0:21:02.799,0:21:06.880
and then i got a job i went to college i
0:21:04.799,0:21:11.120
got my first serious boyfriend
0:21:06.880,0:21:11.120
i actually fell pregnant at
0:21:11.360,0:21:19.440
i'm 15 and
0:21:15.200,0:21:22.559
i went and had um
0:21:19.440,0:21:26.159
the procedure to get rid of it
0:21:22.559,0:21:28.960
i probably wouldn't have carried it full
0:21:26.159,0:21:32.400
term anyway knowing what i know now
0:21:28.960,0:21:35.679
but i sometimes blame myself that that
0:21:32.400,0:21:40.320
is karma for what i did when i was 15.
0:21:35.679,0:21:42.159
um but when you're 15 years old and your
0:21:40.320,0:21:45.039
your boyfriend says it's near the baby
0:21:42.159,0:21:46.480
you kind of like them well
0:21:45.039,0:21:48.960
never going to find another guy in my
0:21:46.480,0:21:52.320
life and
0:21:48.960,0:21:55.600
so i think that's affected me a lot
0:21:52.320,0:21:57.600
and and then from then on i've always
0:21:55.600,0:21:59.600
searched for something just to fill it
0:21:57.600,0:22:02.080
like i had a duck that hung in my car
0:21:59.600,0:22:03.840
that nobody knew what that represented
0:22:02.080,0:22:05.120
that represented this baby that i'd got
0:22:03.840,0:22:07.919
rid of
0:22:05.120,0:22:09.280
and i know no longer have that duck
0:22:07.919,0:22:12.640
because
0:22:09.280,0:22:13.840
it reminds me of what i'm i feel guilty
0:22:12.640,0:22:15.840
about now
0:22:13.840,0:22:17.280
and and that's the last thing i need
0:22:15.840,0:22:20.400
everything else
0:22:17.280,0:22:22.000
and but i do feel that i blame myself
0:22:20.400,0:22:25.039
for that
0:22:22.000,0:22:25.760
it's an interesting um psychological
0:22:25.039,0:22:28.960
point of view
0:22:25.760,0:22:29.840
that you and it's not it's not uncommon
0:22:28.960,0:22:33.280
obviously there are
0:22:29.840,0:22:33.600
these um these uh surrogate babies you
0:22:33.280,0:22:35.120
know
0:22:33.600,0:22:36.720
they're not i don't want to pretend
0:22:35.120,0:22:41.840
babies but like
0:22:36.720,0:22:41.840
them they're almost electronic yeah
0:22:41.919,0:22:46.159
if somebody's lost a baby that they can
0:22:44.000,0:22:49.360
mother this until their
0:22:46.159,0:22:51.280
bereavement is over or you know um
0:22:49.360,0:22:52.799
i've seen those and obviously there's a
0:22:51.280,0:22:55.440
psychological aspect to
0:22:52.799,0:22:56.960
guilt and the way you're feeling and and
0:22:55.440,0:22:59.840
we're not psychologists paul and i
0:22:56.960,0:23:00.400
so we can't really weigh in on on that
0:22:59.840,0:23:03.280
but we do
0:23:00.400,0:23:04.320
find it fascinating the way that
0:23:03.280,0:23:07.679
people's lives
0:23:04.320,0:23:11.120
affects the decision-making process
0:23:07.679,0:23:12.559
and um i mean obviously to hear you say
0:23:11.120,0:23:14.000
that you feel guilty for something you
0:23:12.559,0:23:17.440
did when you were 15.
0:23:14.000,0:23:20.080
i i think as as your brother
0:23:17.440,0:23:22.510
you need to let that go yeah i think i
0:23:20.080,0:23:27.010
did a lot more when i
0:23:22.510,0:23:27.010
[Laughter]
0:23:32.260,0:23:36.660
[Laughter]
0:23:35.120,0:23:38.880
after hours
0:23:36.660,0:23:41.039
[Laughter]
0:23:38.880,0:23:42.159
i do i do remember when we were younger
0:23:41.039,0:23:44.559
and i used to say
0:23:42.159,0:23:45.840
ryan used to say i want to be cool uncle
0:23:44.559,0:23:48.559
ryan
0:23:45.840,0:23:49.679
play with the child and then leave i
0:23:48.559,0:23:52.000
want that role
0:23:49.679,0:23:54.640
and i never thought i'd dream of being
0:23:52.000,0:23:54.640
an auntie
0:23:54.880,0:23:59.679
i always i did always think it would be
0:23:57.200,0:24:03.039
the other way around it was weird
0:23:59.679,0:24:04.080
um but you have a massive involvement
0:24:03.039,0:24:06.720
with our children
0:24:04.080,0:24:08.000
like as much as i possibly could have as
0:24:06.720,0:24:09.520
as an auntie
0:24:08.000,0:24:11.840
without you know encroaching on my own
0:24:09.520,0:24:11.840
marriage
0:24:12.000,0:24:19.520
like hey i i think i'm pretty
0:24:15.039,0:24:21.360
there's a gray line there too
0:24:19.520,0:24:22.559
there's another psychological freudian
0:24:21.360,0:24:24.640
thing that we need to
0:24:22.559,0:24:26.559
probably stay away from on this episode
0:24:24.640,0:24:29.440
but
0:24:26.559,0:24:29.440
no i mean like
0:24:30.000,0:24:33.600
maybe not on the first pregnancy but
0:24:31.919,0:24:37.120
when when marisa was
0:24:33.600,0:24:40.240
being planned shall we say i was very
0:24:37.120,0:24:42.400
much involved in that planning
0:24:40.240,0:24:44.320
you're like not the active i was gonna
0:24:42.400,0:24:47.120
say like can you just clarify exactly
0:24:44.320,0:24:48.480
what you mean by yeah yeah she was
0:24:47.120,0:24:50.559
yeah let's clarify she was not there
0:24:48.480,0:24:54.400
with the video camera there's no
0:24:50.559,0:24:54.400
there's no production involved
0:24:54.559,0:25:00.480
no like i was very involved in the
0:24:57.919,0:25:00.480
the date
0:25:13.600,0:25:18.320
yes she was and i because i was like i
0:25:16.480,0:25:19.120
can't wait to go to america like family
0:25:18.320,0:25:22.000
holiday and
0:25:19.120,0:25:22.640
apollo's like and said maybe maybe not
0:25:22.000,0:25:26.320
do that
0:25:22.640,0:25:27.600
and i was like okay now you need to tell
0:25:26.320,0:25:28.720
me more and she's like okay but nobody
0:25:27.600,0:25:31.919
else knows
0:25:28.720,0:25:32.640
and i'm like what is that and then she
0:25:31.919,0:25:34.080
pulled me in the middle of the
0:25:32.640,0:25:38.880
supermarket and went
0:25:34.080,0:25:38.880
don't plan america i was like yeah
0:25:39.200,0:25:46.720
um so yeah that was my involvement
0:25:42.960,0:25:47.840
jackson i hadn't just clarified no idea
0:25:46.720,0:25:49.760
that was a very
0:25:47.840,0:25:51.440
um i think it was father's day when you
0:25:49.760,0:25:54.640
told us was it not
0:25:51.440,0:25:57.520
for your first year um
0:25:54.640,0:25:59.279
um i don't remember that but i do i mean
0:25:57.520,0:26:00.640
i did remember this all getting together
0:25:59.279,0:26:04.720
at my dad's
0:26:00.640,0:26:08.080
and i had found that i was pregnant
0:26:04.720,0:26:11.360
which i think made it worse at the time
0:26:08.080,0:26:13.200
but not no i mean like
0:26:11.360,0:26:15.760
for your news coming out because it kind
0:26:13.200,0:26:18.799
of like darkened that but for me
0:26:15.760,0:26:21.360
your news took away that
0:26:18.799,0:26:22.960
so um it was it was really good because
0:26:21.360,0:26:24.960
i remember going downstairs and buying
0:26:22.960,0:26:28.480
all these chocolates and
0:26:24.960,0:26:31.440
stuff for getting excited
0:26:28.480,0:26:32.159
i want to ask lindsey because you're
0:26:31.440,0:26:35.279
obviously
0:26:32.159,0:26:39.840
heavily involved in brian's life and
0:26:35.279,0:26:41.919
his wife's life and his kids um
0:26:39.840,0:26:43.120
what's that like for both you and your
0:26:41.919,0:26:46.480
husband
0:26:43.120,0:26:47.760
knowing that you want to have your own
0:26:46.480,0:26:50.480
family
0:26:47.760,0:26:52.559
but there are so many kids to look after
0:26:50.480,0:26:56.400
in other families is that
0:26:52.559,0:26:56.400
how does that feel um
0:26:56.799,0:27:01.120
it's a blessing in disguise because it
0:26:59.200,0:27:02.320
had i think if i didn't have all these
0:27:01.120,0:27:06.080
children
0:27:02.320,0:27:08.240
in my life it would be a lot harder but
0:27:06.080,0:27:09.520
then on the other side it's hard to see
0:27:08.240,0:27:12.080
them
0:27:09.520,0:27:13.600
like pull over the bump and yeah
0:27:12.080,0:27:16.880
preparing and stuff like that
0:27:13.600,0:27:18.880
i want to be doing that
0:27:16.880,0:27:21.760
we looked at adoption but there's so
0:27:18.880,0:27:24.799
many hoops to jump through that as well
0:27:21.760,0:27:26.240
um and career got in the way they wanted
0:27:24.799,0:27:28.720
every saturday
0:27:26.240,0:27:30.000
and for 12 weeks on the run up to
0:27:28.720,0:27:33.200
christmas
0:27:30.000,0:27:36.559
um retail that is not
0:27:33.200,0:27:38.000
gonna happen for anybody um as much as
0:27:36.559,0:27:42.480
my bosses are great that
0:27:38.000,0:27:45.520
no and so we kind of say
0:27:42.480,0:27:46.159
swipe that and we've looked at one doing
0:27:45.520,0:27:49.440
it again
0:27:46.159,0:27:52.559
but it's just the time
0:27:49.440,0:27:55.200
that it'll take for all of this it would
0:27:52.559,0:27:56.640
be worth it in the end it's just
0:27:55.200,0:27:57.919
i don't know where i'd find the time i
0:27:56.640,0:27:59.600
don't even know if i'd have a child in
0:27:57.919,0:28:04.559
it to be honest
0:27:59.600,0:28:07.600
um we've connected now you do that
0:28:04.559,0:28:09.600
yeah you have to don't yes no choice
0:28:07.600,0:28:12.080
yeah ryan spoke about that before
0:28:09.600,0:28:14.159
he spoke about sort of being unsure and
0:28:12.080,0:28:15.600
then you said within about 30 seconds it
0:28:14.159,0:28:16.880
was like well
0:28:15.600,0:28:20.399
i don't have a chance to be unsure
0:28:16.880,0:28:22.240
anymore exactly it's coming
0:28:20.399,0:28:24.080
today i remember dave was born and you
0:28:22.240,0:28:25.679
came to my work and you kind of sat in
0:28:24.080,0:28:28.720
my work for two hours
0:28:25.679,0:28:31.760
stinking by the way off because
0:28:28.720,0:28:32.880
after three days have been oh in a
0:28:31.760,0:28:36.480
hospital
0:28:32.880,0:28:36.480
waiting for a baby no just
0:28:37.120,0:28:40.880
it wasn't like as bad as that yes
0:28:42.799,0:28:47.279
thanks very much yes you came in and you
0:28:44.640,0:28:50.080
hadn't washed for a week
0:28:47.279,0:28:50.080
and it was really obvious
0:28:50.880,0:28:58.000
no but it added to this like
0:28:53.919,0:29:01.279
he had chosen to drive past his home
0:28:58.000,0:29:04.080
to my place of work
0:29:01.279,0:29:05.919
wait for me to finish work go down to
0:29:04.080,0:29:08.320
the photoshop put some photos of her
0:29:05.919,0:29:09.679
baby that has literally just come onto
0:29:08.320,0:29:13.360
there
0:29:09.679,0:29:17.200
and sat around so much that my boss went
0:29:13.360,0:29:19.600
lindsay i think you should go home and
0:29:17.200,0:29:22.000
i was like yeah please he's like yeah
0:29:19.600,0:29:25.440
these two are not
0:29:22.000,0:29:28.640
gonna settle so just go um and then
0:29:25.440,0:29:30.960
i was the first like the boss i'm not
0:29:28.640,0:29:34.159
leaving until yeah
0:29:30.960,0:29:38.240
thanks paul if you're watching
0:29:34.159,0:29:41.760
uh so that was really exciting because
0:29:38.240,0:29:44.480
he chose to come and get me and me be
0:29:41.760,0:29:46.159
the first person to go into that
0:29:44.480,0:29:47.520
the hospital that nobody was allowed
0:29:46.159,0:29:48.640
into so i had to hide behind a curtain
0:29:47.520,0:29:52.399
at one point i think
0:29:48.640,0:29:54.159
wow i don't think because
0:29:52.399,0:29:56.640
you were completely allowed in i just
0:29:54.159,0:29:59.120
think they would have rather not hads
0:29:56.640,0:29:59.919
no but remember when she was getting
0:29:59.120,0:30:03.760
something
0:29:59.919,0:30:05.279
okay the baby had an affection so
0:30:03.760,0:30:06.799
they were just trying to be cautious
0:30:05.279,0:30:09.840
okay trying to get me out though that
0:30:06.799,0:30:11.440
would have been a test
0:30:09.840,0:30:13.440
and i remember just sitting there with
0:30:11.440,0:30:17.360
them on my chest and
0:30:13.440,0:30:19.440
try to take selfies um as you do
0:30:17.360,0:30:21.360
yeah and i was still in my working form
0:30:19.440,0:30:24.720
and everything it was
0:30:21.360,0:30:26.960
it was a weird couple of days that
0:30:24.720,0:30:26.960
um
0:30:29.440,0:30:34.159
seeing ryan hey daddy took that like
0:30:32.080,0:30:37.039
turned up to water he just
0:30:34.159,0:30:38.960
his excitement rubbed off on all of us
0:30:37.039,0:30:42.880
did you see a change in mind
0:30:38.960,0:30:46.880
when his son was born yes
0:30:42.880,0:30:49.760
what sort of change um
0:30:46.880,0:30:51.120
so as you can see ryan is not a very
0:30:49.760,0:30:56.880
serious person
0:30:51.120,0:31:00.320
no and humor covers a lot of our life
0:30:56.880,0:31:04.640
and so when
0:31:00.320,0:31:07.840
jackson came along you saw the changing
0:31:04.640,0:31:10.960
seriousness the the banter
0:31:07.840,0:31:12.399
aspect was still there but the watch his
0:31:10.960,0:31:15.440
head
0:31:12.399,0:31:19.460
don't do that don't flush the toilet he
0:31:15.440,0:31:22.690
might wake up
0:31:19.460,0:31:22.690
[Laughter]
0:31:28.399,0:31:32.480
i don't even think i saw what was going
0:31:29.840,0:31:35.760
on in any of those programs
0:31:32.480,0:31:38.720
um should we really be
0:31:35.760,0:31:39.840
um having this in the house just like
0:31:38.720,0:31:43.600
things that you
0:31:39.840,0:31:43.600
never thought ryan would ever
0:31:43.840,0:31:48.799
ever think about um i suppose he risk
0:31:47.840,0:31:52.159
assessed his
0:31:48.799,0:31:53.919
his whole life um
0:31:52.159,0:31:56.159
and it was nice to see and it was nice
0:31:53.919,0:31:59.600
to be involved in as well
0:31:56.159,0:32:00.159
um you have no you've been involved with
0:31:59.600,0:32:03.279
a lot
0:32:00.159,0:32:05.360
a lot of it and i hope that i mean it's
0:32:03.279,0:32:07.279
not it's not like i've done that for you
0:32:05.360,0:32:09.120
i've never been like oh we should think
0:32:07.279,0:32:10.559
so this is
0:32:09.120,0:32:12.640
should have a child you should look
0:32:10.559,0:32:16.240
after the child
0:32:12.640,0:32:18.080
yeah um no i was you i think we
0:32:16.240,0:32:19.600
decided quite early on that it would be
0:32:18.080,0:32:22.480
important for you to be involved
0:32:19.600,0:32:22.880
um for all of the factors that you've
0:32:22.480,0:32:26.000
you've
0:32:22.880,0:32:30.240
kind of already mentioned the one
0:32:26.000,0:32:34.000
that you so wanted to have that kind of
0:32:30.240,0:32:35.360
maternal involvement and it was great to
0:32:34.000,0:32:37.440
have somebody who was somebody
0:32:35.360,0:32:40.159
so supportive like we needed a support
0:32:37.440,0:32:43.919
network it was great to have
0:32:40.159,0:32:46.640
a direct family member who wanted to be
0:32:43.919,0:32:48.240
directly involved so i know he takes two
0:32:46.640,0:32:51.120
weeks off and the nephew's born and
0:32:48.240,0:32:54.080
stays the full two weeks
0:32:51.120,0:32:54.640
like someone who's dedicated we worked
0:32:54.080,0:32:56.559
we worked
0:32:54.640,0:32:58.399
out together because paula unfortunately
0:32:56.559,0:33:02.240
because she'd had such a rough pregnancy
0:32:58.399,0:33:05.440
was quite ill so um
0:33:02.240,0:33:06.640
i had it would have been all on me for
0:33:05.440,0:33:10.240
those two weeks
0:33:06.640,0:33:11.360
uh if you hadn't been there so like i
0:33:10.240,0:33:12.799
can only like i've
0:33:11.360,0:33:15.519
i've thanked you before but i can thank
0:33:12.799,0:33:19.039
you on on the internet thank you lance
0:33:15.519,0:33:20.480
um that the you were there to help
0:33:19.039,0:33:22.799
support me during that time
0:33:20.480,0:33:24.000
and there was one there was one specific
0:33:22.799,0:33:25.519
night where um
0:33:24.000,0:33:27.440
because paula really wanted to continue
0:33:25.519,0:33:31.360
breastfeeding we didn't want to
0:33:27.440,0:33:33.919
bring in the the the
0:33:31.360,0:33:34.399
the baby milk you know the what do they
0:33:33.919,0:33:37.760
call it
0:33:34.399,0:33:38.399
formula yeah um they wanted uh we wanted
0:33:37.760,0:33:39.600
to kind of
0:33:38.399,0:33:40.640
that we've been told by the health
0:33:39.600,0:33:42.640
visitor that you shouldn't do
0:33:40.640,0:33:45.679
combination feeding that you should do
0:33:42.640,0:33:46.799
breastfeeding or one combination feeding
0:33:45.679,0:33:48.080
doesn't really work because then the
0:33:46.799,0:33:50.320
baby won't latch on
0:33:48.080,0:33:51.600
to its mother and there was a bit of
0:33:50.320,0:33:54.080
that and we were like
0:33:51.600,0:33:54.640
right okay so we were kind of first-time
0:33:54.080,0:33:56.320
parents
0:33:54.640,0:33:57.760
i was about paula was like right well we
0:33:56.320,0:33:59.039
can't do the formula thing we need to
0:33:57.760,0:34:00.480
make sure that i'm
0:33:59.039,0:34:02.640
which is big pressure on her with her
0:34:00.480,0:34:05.039
not being well like she's not
0:34:02.640,0:34:06.240
feeling great she's i'm really tired
0:34:05.039,0:34:08.560
she's still struggling with
0:34:06.240,0:34:10.720
um the after effects of the pregnancy
0:34:08.560,0:34:13.919
and fit infection and
0:34:10.720,0:34:14.639
um and just it was a rough time for her
0:34:13.919,0:34:17.679
so she was
0:34:14.639,0:34:21.040
she was still healing and he was a very
0:34:17.679,0:34:23.520
hungry baby he was a very hungry baby
0:34:21.040,0:34:25.440
so we kind of decided one night because
0:34:23.520,0:34:26.560
paula was fast asleep the baby so
0:34:25.440,0:34:29.440
jackson's crying
0:34:26.560,0:34:30.240
um we we had explored everything that's
0:34:29.440,0:34:31.919
like
0:34:30.240,0:34:33.919
once we're just gonna need to feed him
0:34:31.919,0:34:35.520
like i'm not waking paula up we're not
0:34:33.919,0:34:38.320
doing it
0:34:35.520,0:34:40.159
um it's it's just we did not make that
0:34:38.320,0:34:43.040
decision in five minutes
0:34:40.159,0:34:43.839
i must have to say we that took us a
0:34:43.040,0:34:46.960
good time
0:34:43.839,0:34:50.720
to morally we
0:34:46.960,0:34:50.720
first bottle first feed
0:34:50.800,0:34:54.159
what was paula's reaction when you woke
0:34:52.879,0:34:58.240
up when she woke up and
0:34:54.159,0:35:01.359
you told her thank you okay
0:34:58.240,0:35:02.640
so i could call it because it's still
0:35:01.359,0:35:05.440
latched on as well
0:35:02.640,0:35:06.800
after that so it's combination feeding
0:35:05.440,0:35:10.000
for us that actually work
0:35:06.800,0:35:11.760
it works really well so and i got to be
0:35:10.000,0:35:12.960
more involved
0:35:11.760,0:35:14.800
because you've got to actually feed him
0:35:12.960,0:35:18.480
with a bottle yeah you know
0:35:14.800,0:35:20.640
that that's and i know most dads
0:35:18.480,0:35:22.560
admit to this that as soon as you're
0:35:20.640,0:35:24.480
able to feed your child
0:35:22.560,0:35:26.640
you that is when you actually are able
0:35:24.480,0:35:28.240
to be involved in that process because
0:35:26.640,0:35:29.760
you can't give birth to the baby so
0:35:28.240,0:35:30.480
you've not you've been there but you've
0:35:29.760,0:35:32.320
been supported
0:35:30.480,0:35:34.480
in a support network but now you're
0:35:32.320,0:35:36.160
actually actively helping keep this baby
0:35:34.480,0:35:38.960
alive you're like oh look i'm feet i'm
0:35:36.160,0:35:41.839
feeding this baby like i'm doing that
0:35:38.960,0:35:43.520
so like that for a lot of that is that
0:35:41.839,0:35:47.119
moment where you're like
0:35:43.520,0:35:49.119
here i am i'm providing i'm i i'm doing
0:35:47.119,0:35:50.320
doing the actual parenting now that
0:35:49.119,0:35:51.839
makes sense
0:35:50.320,0:35:54.240
so for a moment that you're like i'm
0:35:51.839,0:35:56.480
actually involved now um
0:35:54.240,0:35:58.240
i know i remember when we did it and i
0:35:56.480,0:35:59.200
said you need to do it first i can't be
0:35:58.240,0:36:02.720
the first one to get
0:35:59.200,0:36:04.560
baseball yeah as much as i'd
0:36:02.720,0:36:05.920
love that and did you right did you give
0:36:04.560,0:36:07.839
the first bottle
0:36:05.920,0:36:09.440
well obviously yeah and we were in that
0:36:07.839,0:36:11.200
moment um
0:36:09.440,0:36:12.720
that lindsay just explained but we're in
0:36:11.200,0:36:15.040
that moment where we were scared
0:36:12.720,0:36:16.560
that we were going against paula's
0:36:15.040,0:36:18.400
wishes
0:36:16.560,0:36:19.920
and and i understood the reason for it
0:36:18.400,0:36:21.920
it wasn't just paul's wishes like we
0:36:19.920,0:36:23.920
we had both been told this by the health
0:36:21.920,0:36:25.119
visit so we just
0:36:23.920,0:36:26.960
i was worried that we were doing
0:36:25.119,0:36:28.800
something wrong
0:36:26.960,0:36:30.320
and looking back now that seems crazy
0:36:28.800,0:36:31.920
but at the time
0:36:30.320,0:36:34.400
when you're in it and the first baby i
0:36:31.920,0:36:36.079
was just like i thought
0:36:34.400,0:36:37.760
are we are we doing the right thing like
0:36:36.079,0:36:39.200
are we ruining
0:36:37.760,0:36:41.119
are we ruining something you've spoke
0:36:39.200,0:36:42.400
about this before about not only having
0:36:41.119,0:36:44.880
that then but having that
0:36:42.400,0:36:46.240
basically throughout the whole time that
0:36:44.880,0:36:46.800
you bring up children am i doing the
0:36:46.240,0:36:49.839
right thing
0:36:46.800,0:36:51.359
am i am i causing the harm here you know
0:36:49.839,0:36:53.680
yeah you're always second guess yourself
0:36:51.359,0:36:55.839
because you wonder if it's something
0:36:53.680,0:36:57.280
if you did something that would cause
0:36:55.839,0:36:59.359
harm
0:36:57.280,0:37:00.400
could you forgive yourself with that so
0:36:59.359,0:37:02.480
i've i always
0:37:00.400,0:37:03.680
and linda lindsey said uh yeah he's not
0:37:02.480,0:37:05.359
very serious when it comes to my
0:37:03.680,0:37:06.240
children i've become very serious i'm
0:37:05.359,0:37:08.320
like
0:37:06.240,0:37:09.839
no no we're gonna we're gonna think this
0:37:08.320,0:37:11.520
through we'll risk assess every part
0:37:09.839,0:37:13.280
turn that tv down
0:37:11.520,0:37:15.520
yeah turn that tv down do not flush that
0:37:13.280,0:37:15.520
toilet
0:37:15.839,0:37:20.640
um do you know about just like all the
0:37:18.880,0:37:21.359
thought processes that we have available
0:37:20.640,0:37:23.520
to us now
0:37:21.359,0:37:25.680
i might make a decision that's wrong
0:37:23.520,0:37:26.400
based on the information i have been
0:37:25.680,0:37:28.400
wrong
0:37:26.400,0:37:30.560
that's that's different i can't help
0:37:28.400,0:37:31.920
that but to have make the wrong decision
0:37:30.560,0:37:32.960
because i haven't thought it through i
0:37:31.920,0:37:36.320
could not live with that
0:37:32.960,0:37:38.480
yeah so um
0:37:36.320,0:37:40.720
that's why on that moment when wendy and
0:37:38.480,0:37:41.280
i were having to feed jackson we were
0:37:40.720,0:37:44.320
just like
0:37:41.280,0:37:46.640
ah are we doing the right thing
0:37:44.320,0:37:48.480
because the health visitor says no and
0:37:46.640,0:37:50.320
she surely knows better than we do
0:37:48.480,0:37:52.079
but this baby's hungry like it's this
0:37:50.320,0:37:55.200
we've changed his bum
0:37:52.079,0:37:58.640
we've tried to rock him to sleep
0:37:55.200,0:37:59.280
there's nothing left like he's clearly
0:37:58.640,0:38:01.440
hungry
0:37:59.280,0:38:02.720
and we need to feed him so let's feed
0:38:01.440,0:38:06.640
him um
0:38:02.720,0:38:09.200
and risk in the morning paula been like
0:38:06.640,0:38:09.760
what have we done and well it's it was
0:38:09.200,0:38:11.520
one thing
0:38:09.760,0:38:13.280
it was it became to the point where it
0:38:11.520,0:38:14.880
was very obvious that jackson was hungry
0:38:13.280,0:38:17.040
and paula wasn't
0:38:14.880,0:38:19.359
able to help him because she was she was
0:38:17.040,0:38:22.560
so unwell
0:38:19.359,0:38:22.560
it wasn't that either he was
0:38:22.720,0:38:25.760
paula could have milked till the cows
0:38:25.119,0:38:27.680
came home
0:38:25.760,0:38:28.960
and it still would not have been enough
0:38:27.680,0:38:32.079
for that baby okay
0:38:28.960,0:38:34.320
yeah he was very hungry um so we did we
0:38:32.079,0:38:35.839
we fed him there and then and actually
0:38:34.320,0:38:37.359
there after we were giving him hungry
0:38:35.839,0:38:39.200
baby milk it wasn't even
0:38:37.359,0:38:40.960
like normal formula well after that we
0:38:39.200,0:38:43.040
were giving him like for a little while
0:38:40.960,0:38:44.960
we did but then he was still hungry
0:38:43.040,0:38:46.560
and we were combination feeding and he
0:38:44.960,0:38:47.280
he clearly got a taste for milk and he
0:38:46.560,0:38:50.480
was like
0:38:47.280,0:38:53.599
this is awesome give me more um
0:38:50.480,0:38:53.839
and he's as soon as we started feeding
0:38:53.599,0:38:57.119
him
0:38:53.839,0:38:57.599
uh on the bottle he slept all the time
0:38:57.119,0:38:59.520
didn't he
0:38:57.599,0:39:01.760
once he was just a great sleeper he
0:38:59.520,0:39:04.720
slept it was a great baby
0:39:01.760,0:39:05.760
he was a brilliant baby um vlad is in
0:39:04.720,0:39:10.400
her full sense of
0:39:05.760,0:39:13.839
he said absolutely amazing baby um
0:39:10.400,0:39:15.359
like when he was a like technically a
0:39:13.839,0:39:17.599
toddler but not really
0:39:15.359,0:39:19.440
um it was the size of her take himself
0:39:17.599,0:39:20.720
to bed it would like
0:39:19.440,0:39:22.720
there was a size but it would crawl to
0:39:20.720,0:39:23.440
the bottom of the bottom step and we
0:39:22.720,0:39:26.640
would like
0:39:23.440,0:39:27.200
is it bedtime anybody yeah then we were
0:39:26.640,0:39:30.320
like
0:39:27.200,0:39:33.359
okay this is perfect so
0:39:30.320,0:39:33.839
it's bed it's bedtime then so we and
0:39:33.359,0:39:35.680
then
0:39:33.839,0:39:37.040
we i had started doing this thing where
0:39:35.680,0:39:38.000
i was helping him up the stairs like
0:39:37.040,0:39:39.599
obviously i wouldn't let go of the
0:39:38.000,0:39:42.000
stairs himself as a baby but
0:39:39.599,0:39:44.560
um like showing him that we were going
0:39:42.000,0:39:45.839
upstairs and i would like
0:39:44.560,0:39:47.760
he'd be trying to crawl up the stairs
0:39:45.839,0:39:49.200
and i'd like help his knees get to the
0:39:47.760,0:39:51.760
next step and
0:39:49.200,0:39:52.960
doing everything took ages but we got to
0:39:51.760,0:39:53.839
the top steps so he was obviously
0:39:52.960,0:39:56.160
knackered by the
0:39:53.839,0:39:57.920
time we got to the top and then we got
0:39:56.160,0:39:59.760
into we took her into bed and he was
0:39:57.920,0:40:03.760
like
0:39:59.760,0:40:03.760
the dummy pastor take his own dummy
0:40:04.960,0:40:10.000
yeah like it's asleep um
0:40:08.000,0:40:11.119
and that was that and then we were like
0:40:10.000,0:40:13.920
right well how long's
0:40:11.119,0:40:15.599
how how long is he going to be down for
0:40:13.920,0:40:19.200
the only time he woke up
0:40:15.599,0:40:24.079
is when he lost him wow
0:40:19.200,0:40:26.400
and i think they had like a sofa
0:40:24.079,0:40:27.359
they had like a sofa bed in his bedroom
0:40:26.400,0:40:29.359
and that was
0:40:27.359,0:40:31.440
that was my bed how i made that through
0:40:29.359,0:40:34.800
without making any noise i don't know
0:40:31.440,0:40:36.560
um and he used to wake up
0:40:34.800,0:40:38.480
as soon as i heard a week cry i had a
0:40:36.560,0:40:42.000
spare dummy i was there
0:40:38.480,0:40:44.560
and then one night i heard him gurgle
0:40:42.000,0:40:47.040
and i was ready and i sat and watched
0:40:44.560,0:40:49.760
him he crawled to the end of his court
0:40:47.040,0:40:51.760
he knew where those dummies were kept
0:40:49.760,0:40:53.920
reached over the side of the clock got a
0:40:51.760,0:40:58.000
dummy from the top of the drawers
0:40:53.920,0:41:00.079
i went back to sleep wow and i was like
0:40:58.000,0:41:01.680
i don't even know how old he was he
0:41:00.079,0:41:06.480
couldn't talk anyway wow
0:41:01.680,0:41:06.480
no it was he was yeah and he was just
0:41:14.480,0:41:17.440
like other people other parents are like
0:41:16.240,0:41:18.319
uh we don't get any sleep with their
0:41:17.440,0:41:20.560
baby
0:41:18.319,0:41:22.400
that's that is true there is an element
0:41:20.560,0:41:24.240
of that but we worked really hard
0:41:22.400,0:41:25.839
um doing i think there's a thing called
0:41:24.240,0:41:27.200
the three-day nanny
0:41:25.839,0:41:29.359
and it's kind of controversial in some
0:41:27.200,0:41:30.000
ways but i i would recommend it to
0:41:29.359,0:41:32.000
anybody
0:41:30.000,0:41:33.440
that basically you do a routine for
0:41:32.000,0:41:35.280
three days and once you've done it for
0:41:33.440,0:41:36.560
three days it kind of takes
0:41:35.280,0:41:39.040
and you might have to refresh those
0:41:36.560,0:41:42.720
three days as as you go on but
0:41:39.040,0:41:44.560
it's a psychology thing but um
0:41:42.720,0:41:46.079
yeah routines are set up in three days
0:41:44.560,0:41:46.880
basically so once you've done it three
0:41:46.079,0:41:49.119
times
0:41:46.880,0:41:49.920
that's the routine and we'll do that so
0:41:49.119,0:41:53.280
we did that
0:41:49.920,0:41:54.800
for like sleep training and we didn't
0:41:53.280,0:41:56.720
do the whole bringing the baby into our
0:41:54.800,0:41:57.839
bed our kids have never slept in our
0:41:56.720,0:42:00.839
beds with us
0:41:57.839,0:42:01.839
um and that there's very they were
0:42:00.839,0:42:03.920
getting a
0:42:01.839,0:42:06.160
different school of thought here like
0:42:03.920,0:42:08.960
this we could have
0:42:06.160,0:42:10.560
an entire season just on the different
0:42:08.960,0:42:11.280
sides of parenting and the different
0:42:10.560,0:42:14.319
nurtures
0:42:11.280,0:42:15.440
and and we chose to go that way um and
0:42:14.319,0:42:18.319
it's worked for us
0:42:15.440,0:42:19.920
so that's all i can say on that but we
0:42:18.319,0:42:22.000
do get a good night's sleep now
0:42:19.920,0:42:24.640
and the kids have always slept well
0:42:22.000,0:42:29.920
because that's what we've chosen to do
0:42:24.640,0:42:31.359
so i can i can only say we've had a good
0:42:29.920,0:42:33.760
well lindsay's seen it work first hand
0:42:31.359,0:42:36.240
ambulance like
0:42:33.760,0:42:38.800
and yeah i can't um comment on they're
0:42:36.240,0:42:42.079
not bringing them into the beds
0:42:38.800,0:42:42.079
you looked a little bit guilty
0:42:42.240,0:42:45.920
um jackson i like have multiple times i
0:42:45.200,0:42:49.520
fell asleep
0:42:45.920,0:42:52.000
on the sofa um
0:42:49.520,0:42:54.160
but he was on the inside and there was a
0:42:52.000,0:42:57.119
pillow between us it was okay
0:42:54.160,0:42:59.680
and when we had we had jackson for was
0:42:57.119,0:43:02.240
it two weeks sorry
0:42:59.680,0:43:03.280
um when you paul went back to work and
0:43:02.240,0:43:06.960
you were
0:43:03.280,0:43:08.880
finishing up work um
0:43:06.960,0:43:10.240
and my husband would take him into bed
0:43:08.880,0:43:12.560
in the morning because he's like it's
0:43:10.240,0:43:14.960
not time to get up here
0:43:12.560,0:43:16.880
and feed his bottle there but like it
0:43:14.960,0:43:19.200
was never a
0:43:16.880,0:43:22.720
a big thing and then marisa she needed
0:43:19.200,0:43:24.880
to be brought into bed a couple of times
0:43:22.720,0:43:26.000
but nothing like you see these people
0:43:24.880,0:43:28.880
that they're 11 year old
0:43:26.000,0:43:29.839
is running another bed you know those
0:43:28.880,0:43:31.280
kids know
0:43:29.839,0:43:33.119
that if they come in for a cuddle in bed
0:43:31.280,0:43:34.480
they're not staying there i'm not saying
0:43:33.119,0:43:35.760
we've not had a cuddle in the morning
0:43:34.480,0:43:41.839
with their kids like
0:43:35.760,0:43:41.839
don't make me happy really
0:43:46.079,0:43:50.400
actually i remember one time that his uh
0:43:48.319,0:43:52.800
jackson came into my bed
0:43:50.400,0:43:54.319
and he went okay anyways i'm going back
0:43:52.800,0:43:56.400
to mine because i think i snored or
0:43:54.319,0:44:01.200
something
0:43:56.400,0:44:02.800
um and that was i was like well
0:44:01.200,0:44:05.599
snoring is good for something
0:44:02.800,0:44:08.640
[Laughter]
0:44:05.599,0:44:12.240
lindsay you've obviously had a very
0:44:08.640,0:44:13.440
pivotal role to play in the upbringing
0:44:12.240,0:44:14.880
of of ryan's kids
0:44:13.440,0:44:17.920
we've spoken to a number of people in
0:44:14.880,0:44:20.319
previous episodes who are
0:44:17.920,0:44:21.760
very much of the mindset that they never
0:44:20.319,0:44:24.319
want to have children that that's
0:44:21.760,0:44:27.200
something that they will never entertain
0:44:24.319,0:44:29.200
some have gone as far as to to to be
0:44:27.200,0:44:32.160
sterilized to prevent themselves
0:44:29.200,0:44:33.760
when you hear stories like that how does
0:44:32.160,0:44:36.400
it make you feel
0:44:33.760,0:44:37.839
i'm very open-minded i mean i don't
0:44:36.400,0:44:39.650
judge anybody for
0:44:37.839,0:44:41.760
their choices and
0:44:39.650,0:44:45.119
[Music]
0:44:41.760,0:44:46.880
i i think this sterilization i think
0:44:45.119,0:44:47.440
ryan told me about this and it kind of
0:44:46.880,0:44:51.000
went
0:44:47.440,0:44:52.800
that's a bit drastic like that's that's
0:44:51.000,0:44:55.599
non-reversal
0:44:52.800,0:44:56.160
and although there is i think there is
0:44:55.599,0:44:59.440
some
0:44:56.160,0:45:01.680
ones you can reverse now but like that's
0:44:59.440,0:45:02.800
that's a big statement like nothing's
0:45:01.680,0:45:06.000
gonna change
0:45:02.800,0:45:07.280
i'm never doing it but then in the back
0:45:06.000,0:45:09.119
of my head i'm like there is other
0:45:07.280,0:45:13.119
options if that does change
0:45:09.119,0:45:14.960
like they could adopt they could
0:45:13.119,0:45:16.640
stuff but we don't know what they've
0:45:14.960,0:45:19.839
been through that's made them
0:45:16.640,0:45:21.599
make that choice you don't know if
0:45:19.839,0:45:23.040
like if you were bad as a child you
0:45:21.599,0:45:24.400
might not want another child to go
0:45:23.040,0:45:26.319
through that so you're not having kids
0:45:24.400,0:45:30.560
or
0:45:26.319,0:45:31.920
you just i i sometimes call myself
0:45:30.560,0:45:34.560
yeah you don't know what's going on
0:45:31.920,0:45:37.599
somebody's head i sometimes say now i am
0:45:34.560,0:45:41.280
too selfish to have kids even if i could
0:45:37.599,0:45:42.640
because i like going out for a drive i
0:45:41.280,0:45:44.800
like
0:45:42.640,0:45:47.040
sitting on the sofa and falling asleep
0:45:44.800,0:45:49.920
and not having to worry
0:45:47.040,0:45:51.440
about getting up to look at someday i
0:45:49.920,0:45:52.800
like being able to say do you know what
0:45:51.440,0:45:56.400
i'm going over america
0:45:52.800,0:46:00.400
at the drop of a hat yeah my husband
0:45:56.400,0:46:02.800
likes his sleep way too much um
0:46:00.400,0:46:05.839
so i don't know if he would even survive
0:46:02.800,0:46:09.839
[Laughter]
0:46:05.839,0:46:11.520
i've just well yeah i've just done three
0:46:09.839,0:46:12.160
nights night shift at my work for the
0:46:11.520,0:46:16.319
first time
0:46:12.160,0:46:18.480
ever and it killed me like it's hard
0:46:16.319,0:46:20.960
it's i know i wouldn't build my feet for
0:46:18.480,0:46:24.160
10 hours a day with a baby but
0:46:20.960,0:46:26.560
you might well actually we did
0:46:24.160,0:46:27.359
rock jackson so that that was probably
0:46:26.560,0:46:30.800
true
0:46:27.359,0:46:33.680
and i would not judge anybody for their
0:46:30.800,0:46:33.680
decisions i just
0:46:34.079,0:46:37.200
it would scare me to know that it was so
0:46:36.079,0:46:40.839
permanent
0:46:37.200,0:46:42.400
a few of the things that you said there
0:46:40.839,0:46:44.319
um
0:46:42.400,0:46:47.440
have resonated with me and with some of
0:46:44.319,0:46:49.680
our previous guests who spoke about
0:46:47.440,0:46:51.599
enjoying what they have just now being
0:46:49.680,0:46:54.560
happy where they are just now and
0:46:51.599,0:46:56.000
sometimes that's enough for them to say
0:46:54.560,0:46:58.319
okay i'm gonna have the surgery i'm
0:46:56.000,0:47:01.119
gonna i'm gonna sterilize myself because
0:46:58.319,0:47:01.920
i'm happy with my life i don't want to
0:47:01.119,0:47:04.720
have the
0:47:01.920,0:47:05.599
risk if that's the right word of that
0:47:04.720,0:47:06.960
changing
0:47:05.599,0:47:09.200
and you said you said you think you
0:47:06.960,0:47:12.640
might be too selfish now to have kids
0:47:09.200,0:47:13.280
how do you know when how do you decide
0:47:12.640,0:47:15.839
right okay
0:47:13.280,0:47:17.760
i'm i'm gonna if the right word is give
0:47:15.839,0:47:20.240
up or stop trying
0:47:17.760,0:47:21.839
i don't i don't think you ever give up
0:47:20.240,0:47:24.160
or stop trying
0:47:21.839,0:47:26.160
in the back of my head even though at
0:47:24.160,0:47:29.760
this moment in time it's 100
0:47:26.160,0:47:31.760
not going to happen for me right now
0:47:29.760,0:47:33.839
you still have that little bit in the
0:47:31.760,0:47:37.200
back your head that thinks
0:47:33.839,0:47:40.240
yeah one day maybe um
0:47:37.200,0:47:41.680
and as much as i say i'm still selfish i
0:47:40.240,0:47:44.319
went to inverness
0:47:41.680,0:47:46.640
thank you to my brother and paula for um
0:47:44.319,0:47:49.680
a belated anniversary
0:47:46.640,0:47:53.040
and present and we went up to
0:47:49.680,0:47:54.960
the fairy garden and and we got so
0:47:53.040,0:47:55.440
excited about finding these fairies and
0:47:54.960,0:47:57.839
stuff
0:47:55.440,0:47:59.200
and and i was like i'd love to come back
0:47:57.839,0:48:01.599
here with the kids and
0:47:59.200,0:48:02.720
sam was like well they've just been
0:48:01.599,0:48:03.920
they've seen it
0:48:02.720,0:48:06.960
so what's your problem and i was like
0:48:03.920,0:48:09.599
yeah but i wasn't with them oh okay
0:48:06.960,0:48:11.839
share your experience yes yeah so and
0:48:09.599,0:48:14.960
then i showed them pictures of my
0:48:11.839,0:48:17.440
i was tripping we never saw that
0:48:14.960,0:48:18.319
we never saw that like and then this big
0:48:17.440,0:48:20.400
log that i
0:48:18.319,0:48:21.920
had to do the dirty dance and
0:48:20.400,0:48:25.839
reenactment on
0:48:21.920,0:48:28.960
well i tried my version of that
0:48:25.839,0:48:30.800
a modified version of the dirty dancer i
0:48:28.960,0:48:33.119
set up first enough
0:48:30.800,0:48:34.000
and like they would never have thought
0:48:33.119,0:48:36.880
of that on that
0:48:34.000,0:48:38.400
log but we were both in the same place
0:48:36.880,0:48:39.200
at different times and did different
0:48:38.400,0:48:41.040
things
0:48:39.200,0:48:42.240
and i said that i was like you're not
0:48:41.040,0:48:43.760
seeing it from
0:48:42.240,0:48:45.599
there we could have had a totally
0:48:43.760,0:48:47.280
different experience
0:48:45.599,0:48:48.640
and we always say we want to go to
0:48:47.280,0:48:52.000
america
0:48:48.640,0:48:52.559
all together because i've been to magic
0:48:52.000,0:48:54.960
kingdom
0:48:52.559,0:48:55.760
and i've sat there and been a child for
0:48:54.960,0:48:58.160
a day
0:48:55.760,0:48:59.680
i've been again and done the adult side
0:48:58.160,0:49:01.599
of it
0:48:59.680,0:49:03.520
i don't think it would be the same as
0:49:01.599,0:49:05.119
any of those experiences to then do it
0:49:03.520,0:49:07.200
again with the kids
0:49:05.119,0:49:08.400
i think it's a totally different so you
0:49:07.200,0:49:10.800
just i think you have to get that in
0:49:08.400,0:49:13.599
your mind that
0:49:10.800,0:49:14.720
having kids may stop you doing some
0:49:13.599,0:49:17.440
things
0:49:14.720,0:49:20.240
but it will change the experience
0:49:17.440,0:49:22.720
sometimes for the better sometimes not
0:49:20.240,0:49:24.480
i couldn't imagine doing disneyland with
0:49:22.720,0:49:25.839
a buggy but
0:49:24.480,0:49:28.160
but it can be done we've all seen it
0:49:25.839,0:49:30.559
happening it can yes there's a buggy
0:49:28.160,0:49:33.040
there's a buggy park i mean yeah it's
0:49:30.559,0:49:34.319
been thought of
0:49:33.040,0:49:36.559
we didn't want to do it with the buggy
0:49:34.319,0:49:37.520
we were very aware of how busy these
0:49:36.559,0:49:40.880
places get
0:49:37.520,0:49:43.760
yeah but we still did it we were kind
0:49:40.880,0:49:45.599
of different though aren't we we our mum
0:49:43.760,0:49:47.440
lives there so we have
0:49:45.599,0:49:49.760
more opportunities to go and do stuff
0:49:47.440,0:49:51.440
like that but taking away the park side
0:49:49.760,0:49:54.079
of it i'd love to go in my mum's pool
0:49:51.440,0:49:57.440
with the kids and
0:49:54.079,0:49:59.119
have that fun but when i'm on my own i
0:49:57.440,0:50:01.280
love the ladies and then until
0:49:59.119,0:50:02.960
yeah and i totally was a glass of
0:50:01.280,0:50:03.760
something that would not be there if the
0:50:02.960,0:50:07.440
kids were there
0:50:03.760,0:50:10.839
it's it is different um
0:50:07.440,0:50:12.000
it changes but i would say that it's
0:50:10.839,0:50:14.170
adaptable
0:50:12.000,0:50:16.240
if you've got a good babysitter yeah
0:50:14.170,0:50:19.839
[Laughter]
0:50:16.240,0:50:19.839
where did polar go first yes
0:50:20.079,0:50:22.960
new year i can't remember
0:50:24.240,0:50:27.839
it doesn't know
0:50:29.839,0:50:32.880
a four-year-old and a two-year-old and
0:50:32.559,0:50:35.760
you
0:50:32.880,0:50:37.359
they still managed to go to new york for
0:50:35.760,0:50:39.200
police 30th
0:50:37.359,0:50:41.680
so if you've got that support network
0:50:39.200,0:50:43.680
you don't have to give anything up
0:50:41.680,0:50:44.800
you have to change the dates and stuff
0:50:43.680,0:50:47.359
but yeah
0:50:44.800,0:50:48.160
yeah you make compromises where they
0:50:47.359,0:50:50.480
need to be made
0:50:48.160,0:50:51.359
and you decide when and where you have
0:50:50.480,0:50:54.319
to do that
0:50:51.359,0:50:55.200
um different things you have to take on
0:50:54.319,0:50:56.960
different
0:50:55.200,0:50:59.680
considerations when you've got kids but
0:50:56.960,0:51:01.440
that's that's the same way everybody um
0:50:59.680,0:51:03.440
it might not be children that's the fact
0:51:01.440,0:51:05.280
it could be money it could be
0:51:03.440,0:51:06.480
the way you live it could be it could be
0:51:05.280,0:51:08.319
anything like there could be anything
0:51:06.480,0:51:10.800
who's gonna feed the cat
0:51:08.319,0:51:12.400
yeah exactly like oh i've got a dog you
0:51:10.800,0:51:13.839
know i think any other responsibility
0:51:12.400,0:51:14.880
can get in the way of a decision-making
0:51:13.839,0:51:18.640
process
0:51:14.880,0:51:21.040
so i don't think kids for us have been
0:51:18.640,0:51:22.480
a hindrance because we've had that like
0:51:21.040,0:51:25.040
obviously we can't
0:51:22.480,0:51:26.720
do things on a whim at the same time but
0:51:25.040,0:51:30.640
we can take the kids with us
0:51:26.720,0:51:32.319
so um and we actually like
0:51:30.640,0:51:33.839
if you didn't have kids you could do
0:51:32.319,0:51:36.960
things on a whim anyway
0:51:33.839,0:51:41.359
so well not right now no
0:51:36.960,0:51:43.839
no no mine is if you take the kids away
0:51:41.359,0:51:46.559
it's not you have to plan things paula
0:51:43.839,0:51:51.040
still likes our plans
0:51:46.559,0:51:53.200
probably not so much yeah
0:51:51.040,0:51:55.680
if you take away the kids that wouldn't
0:51:53.200,0:51:57.280
really have changed that much of that
0:51:55.680,0:51:59.440
and i wish i could be as organized as
0:51:57.280,0:52:01.760
paula i love it but
0:51:59.440,0:52:02.640
just not i'm not that person no i could
0:52:01.760,0:52:05.440
write a list
0:52:02.640,0:52:06.800
of lists and then do another list and
0:52:05.440,0:52:09.119
then ignore them
0:52:06.800,0:52:10.079
i close the book and that is it yeah
0:52:09.119,0:52:13.359
yeah
0:52:10.079,0:52:15.359
and so i don't think
0:52:13.359,0:52:16.880
and the children would have stopped that
0:52:15.359,0:52:18.319
but
0:52:16.880,0:52:20.000
i think you've got to do more right
0:52:18.319,0:52:22.000
because you've got the kids as an excuse
0:52:20.000,0:52:24.880
i mean who goes trampolining
0:52:22.000,0:52:26.720
or a soft play area where you're not
0:52:24.880,0:52:29.200
really meant to be in there but
0:52:26.720,0:52:31.040
you've got a child so it's okay i can't
0:52:29.200,0:52:33.040
tell you how much i wish
0:52:31.040,0:52:36.240
i was small enough to still be able to
0:52:33.040,0:52:36.240
go into like a ball pool
0:52:36.640,0:52:42.079
jackson yeah it's just not acceptable
0:52:42.960,0:52:50.319
um the the thing is i took jackson to
0:52:46.319,0:52:52.480
a local uh i don't want to name it but
0:52:50.319,0:52:53.359
yeah um soft play area and we used to go
0:52:52.480,0:52:54.960
every tuesday
0:52:53.359,0:52:56.800
so they started getting to know that we
0:52:54.960,0:52:57.280
would be there like oh hi yeah how you
0:52:56.800,0:52:59.119
doing
0:52:57.280,0:53:00.400
like so and i would take him out
0:52:59.119,0:53:02.160
obviously he was just little so
0:53:00.400,0:53:03.359
he we would i would take him in and go
0:53:02.160,0:53:05.040
in with him and we'd sit in the ball
0:53:03.359,0:53:05.520
pool together and the whole thing was
0:53:05.040,0:53:08.720
great
0:53:05.520,0:53:11.280
like i would not change that experience
0:53:08.720,0:53:15.680
it got to the point where on a tuesday
0:53:11.280,0:53:16.640
there'd be like five adults and one baby
0:53:15.680,0:53:19.040
we're all sitting around the table
0:53:16.640,0:53:20.640
having that becomes an excuse
0:53:19.040,0:53:23.119
yeah and they're like who's taking them
0:53:20.640,0:53:24.720
in today
0:53:23.119,0:53:26.079
who wants to go through the big rollers
0:53:24.720,0:53:28.400
like lindsay's like i'm gonna go through
0:53:26.079,0:53:32.480
i want to like squeeze myself
0:53:28.400,0:53:32.480
thank you um
0:53:33.839,0:53:38.400
yeah i was um able to use it as a
0:53:37.040,0:53:39.920
an example of whether or not i was
0:53:38.400,0:53:40.839
putting on weight if i could still get
0:53:39.920,0:53:44.000
through the
0:53:40.839,0:53:45.520
roller i'm like oh uh i'm gonna need to
0:53:44.000,0:53:46.720
to really manage my weight a bit better
0:53:45.520,0:53:47.520
because i can't get through the rollers
0:53:46.720,0:53:49.119
anymore
0:53:47.520,0:53:51.680
but do you know if you'd have gone there
0:53:49.119,0:53:53.040
on your own you wouldn't have done that
0:53:51.680,0:53:54.720
you'd have been like i'm too big to go
0:53:53.040,0:53:56.800
through that walk past it
0:53:54.720,0:53:59.440
that baby's just gone through you have
0:53:56.800,0:53:59.440
no choice
0:54:00.000,0:54:03.839
that's true too oh i know some and they
0:54:02.319,0:54:05.760
don't make it easy
0:54:03.839,0:54:08.800
no you have to go through the rulers to
0:54:05.760,0:54:08.800
be in there with your kids
0:54:09.040,0:54:12.240
or do you stand at the other side
0:54:10.480,0:54:15.520
through the
0:54:12.240,0:54:15.520
day and you're right
0:54:15.599,0:54:19.359
it's the beginning you had to go in you
0:54:18.240,0:54:21.839
had to go in
0:54:19.359,0:54:24.000
so it was good i really enjoyed that so
0:54:21.839,0:54:25.440
though yeah these shared experiences
0:54:24.000,0:54:27.040
it's the same as anything though when
0:54:25.440,0:54:28.000
you tell a story you're like you had to
0:54:27.040,0:54:31.359
be there
0:54:28.000,0:54:32.079
um it's the same thing so if you're all
0:54:31.359,0:54:34.000
invested
0:54:32.079,0:54:35.359
like paula and i are fully invested in
0:54:34.000,0:54:36.960
our kids because
0:54:35.359,0:54:39.040
that's the choice we've made we have our
0:54:36.960,0:54:42.000
kids we're fully invested in them
0:54:39.040,0:54:43.200
and everything every decision making
0:54:42.000,0:54:45.599
process we make
0:54:43.200,0:54:46.960
has them at the core of it how how are
0:54:45.599,0:54:48.079
we going to do that with them or how we
0:54:46.960,0:54:48.960
can do that without them if we're going
0:54:48.079,0:54:51.200
to do it for
0:54:48.960,0:54:52.640
something for ourselves and but they're
0:54:51.200,0:54:54.559
always at the core of it
0:54:52.640,0:54:56.079
so that is our culture now the kids are
0:54:54.559,0:54:57.119
our culture and the the rest of the
0:54:56.079,0:54:59.440
family have to
0:54:57.119,0:55:01.200
have to be on board with that and that's
0:54:59.440,0:55:03.040
the shared experience
0:55:01.200,0:55:04.480
that oh well they've got the kids what
0:55:03.040,0:55:07.839
do they want to do um
0:55:04.480,0:55:09.839
and so a lot of that is
0:55:07.839,0:55:11.119
lindsay either coming in and saying
0:55:09.839,0:55:12.960
would you like me to take the kids for a
0:55:11.119,0:55:14.240
day or would you like me to
0:55:12.960,0:55:15.920
do you want to do something do you want
0:55:14.240,0:55:16.880
to all go somewhere together you know
0:55:15.920,0:55:19.040
and it's
0:55:16.880,0:55:20.559
it's again that support network we're
0:55:19.040,0:55:21.920
very lucky we've got
0:55:20.559,0:55:23.839
people around us that want to be
0:55:21.920,0:55:26.000
involved
0:55:23.839,0:55:27.599
yeah i think we kind of adapted didn't
0:55:26.000,0:55:30.000
we we
0:55:27.599,0:55:30.880
like the kids at the forefront of all
0:55:30.000,0:55:33.440
our minds like
0:55:30.880,0:55:34.960
we know that if we all want to go out
0:55:33.440,0:55:36.400
somewhere brewster's is probably going
0:55:34.960,0:55:38.400
to be the best bet
0:55:36.400,0:55:40.000
because we will get time to eat our food
0:55:38.400,0:55:43.359
while they're in the play pit
0:55:40.000,0:55:43.920
um and the staff there knows all because
0:55:43.359,0:55:46.960
of that
0:55:43.920,0:55:48.720
so it is it's nice and
0:55:46.960,0:55:50.079
i mean when your nephew goes can we go
0:55:48.720,0:55:52.480
with frankie and benny's this time
0:55:50.079,0:55:54.240
because i want some pancakes
0:55:52.480,0:55:55.440
then you know that you've done something
0:55:54.240,0:55:56.720
right that they want to go and have
0:55:55.440,0:56:00.319
breakfast with you
0:55:56.720,0:56:02.799
yeah um and but they're used to that
0:56:00.319,0:56:06.319
they know
0:56:02.799,0:56:08.880
like the places we will go um
0:56:06.319,0:56:11.200
and they're really two really good kids
0:56:08.880,0:56:13.119
for that reason i think
0:56:11.200,0:56:15.119
like they know you know the rules
0:56:13.119,0:56:18.640
they'll bend them but they know them
0:56:15.119,0:56:22.000
just like a good any good adult right
0:56:18.640,0:56:22.000
exactly i know the rules
0:56:22.559,0:56:26.079
lindsay thank you so much for covering
0:56:24.799,0:56:26.880
for joining us it's been great to have
0:56:26.079,0:56:29.839
your
0:56:26.880,0:56:32.559
your perspectives i think we went a
0:56:29.839,0:56:35.920
little off talking excellent
0:56:32.559,0:56:37.839
that's the way it always goes hi this is
0:56:35.920,0:56:38.640
ryan thanks for checking out life is it
0:56:37.839,0:56:40.319
just me
0:56:38.640,0:56:42.559
don't forget to subscribe wherever you
0:56:40.319,0:56:44.240
get your podcasts and also on youtube
0:56:42.559,0:56:47.280
for the video version
0:56:44.240,0:56:50.319
and come over and check out our website
0:56:47.280,0:56:51.359
which is life is it just dot me for all
0:56:50.319,0:56:54.240
our latest info
0:56:51.359,0:56:59.119
and updates and thanks again we'll see
0:56:54.240,0:57:01.200
you soon
0:56:59.119,0:57:01.200
you

57 min
January 18, 2021 Childfree, Not Childless - My Life
Omonike is a childfree (by choice) woman - she does not want kids. She talks about aspects of her childfree life and her decision to have a tubal ligation - sterilization surgery which will ensure she never has children. This connection was made on Reddit r/childfree.
Transcript:
----more----
0:00:00.080,0:00:03.199
and she found some of our stuff when we
0:00:01.680,0:00:04.720
were kids and
0:00:03.199,0:00:06.960
i think i was in the second grade she
0:00:04.720,0:00:08.639
saw this little booklet i made and had
0:00:06.960,0:00:10.960
all of my aspirations
0:00:08.639,0:00:12.400
for the rest of my life in there was
0:00:10.960,0:00:13.840
like i wanted three kids
0:00:12.400,0:00:17.900
and she showed it to me i was like burn
0:00:13.840,0:00:19.000
it burn it now
0:00:17.900,0:00:24.000
[Applause]
0:00:19.000,0:00:27.199
[Music]
0:00:24.000,0:00:29.439
hello welcome to life is it just me this
0:00:27.199,0:00:31.599
is the podcast where we look at things
0:00:29.439,0:00:33.040
that we all go through things we all
0:00:31.599,0:00:34.719
think about things we all
0:00:33.040,0:00:37.440
have to deal with in life this first
0:00:34.719,0:00:39.120
season has been and still is all about
0:00:37.440,0:00:40.879
the decision as to whether to have kids
0:00:39.120,0:00:44.000
my name is paul i'm joined as always
0:00:40.879,0:00:46.640
by ryan hello ryan hello
0:00:44.000,0:00:48.399
and our guest for this episode is oh
0:00:46.640,0:00:51.840
monica hi monikay
0:00:48.399,0:00:52.960
hello how are you i'm good
0:00:51.840,0:00:54.640
good to have you here thank you so much
0:00:52.960,0:00:56.840
for joining us tell us a bit about
0:00:54.640,0:01:00.000
yourself to start off
0:00:56.840,0:01:02.719
um you know i just turned 35
0:01:00.000,0:01:03.039
last week um happy birthday from last
0:01:02.719,0:01:06.320
week
0:01:03.039,0:01:07.920
i'm a public sector worker uh so i um
0:01:06.320,0:01:10.560
i'm a trainee appraiser for the state of
0:01:07.920,0:01:11.280
illinois and you know by night i have a
0:01:10.560,0:01:15.280
bunch of
0:01:11.280,0:01:19.119
weird hobbies i watch anime
0:01:15.280,0:01:22.880
um i love horror movies uh i am a brony
0:01:19.119,0:01:24.720
a furry uh just a lot of weird stuff i
0:01:22.880,0:01:25.600
like sewing as well i usually sew like
0:01:24.720,0:01:28.159
stuffed animals
0:01:25.600,0:01:29.360
i should one day sell practical things
0:01:28.159,0:01:32.640
right now
0:01:29.360,0:01:37.360
like things but just sitting again
0:01:32.640,0:01:39.680
you're having fun yes oh absolutely yeah
0:01:37.360,0:01:42.880
i think that my little pony episodes
0:01:39.680,0:01:42.880
we'll do in the next season
0:01:43.200,0:01:47.119
i've seen them all because uh obviously
0:01:45.040,0:01:48.720
i've got children and
0:01:47.119,0:01:50.000
and i've got an excuse to watch my
0:01:48.720,0:01:52.960
little pony even though i've watched it
0:01:50.000,0:01:56.320
without them but don't tell anybody
0:01:52.960,0:01:56.320
i think it excuses the wrong word
0:01:57.360,0:02:02.399
desire the want okay take us back to
0:02:01.040,0:02:03.680
your childhood and tell us
0:02:02.399,0:02:05.280
about your upbringing police which we
0:02:03.680,0:02:06.640
know is going to be relevant to the
0:02:05.280,0:02:09.759
conversation we're having today about
0:02:06.640,0:02:12.640
about children um
0:02:09.759,0:02:14.480
at a very normal childhood uh i grew up
0:02:12.640,0:02:16.319
in a two-parent household
0:02:14.480,0:02:18.640
and i mean i don't live with them
0:02:16.319,0:02:22.000
anymore but they're still together
0:02:18.640,0:02:24.480
uh just standard mom and dad uh
0:02:22.000,0:02:25.840
i am the oldest of three children uh i
0:02:24.480,0:02:27.360
have a brother in the middle who's six
0:02:25.840,0:02:30.319
years younger than me and my sister
0:02:27.360,0:02:32.800
is 13 years younger than me she's
0:02:30.319,0:02:36.000
currently a college student
0:02:32.800,0:02:38.239
but i had a very good childhood i
0:02:36.000,0:02:39.680
definitely didn't want for anything i
0:02:38.239,0:02:42.800
got a lot of
0:02:39.680,0:02:44.400
opportunities that others didn't um
0:02:42.800,0:02:46.319
some of which my dad didn't care for
0:02:44.400,0:02:48.400
like video games but
0:02:46.319,0:02:50.239
uh my my mom wanted to have as many
0:02:48.400,0:02:53.120
experiences as possible
0:02:50.239,0:02:54.160
uh uh you know i grew up i guess middle
0:02:53.120,0:02:56.160
upper middle class
0:02:54.160,0:02:57.920
i i don't really know i don't know how
0:02:56.160,0:02:58.720
much my parents made some of my business
0:02:57.920,0:03:02.480
but
0:02:58.720,0:03:05.840
um my mom was a general practitioner
0:03:02.480,0:03:07.200
so a physician and my father was a civil
0:03:05.840,0:03:11.280
engineer both are currently
0:03:07.200,0:03:14.480
hired so you know they
0:03:11.280,0:03:16.959
they made a decent amount of money and i
0:03:14.480,0:03:19.360
grew up going a bunch of different
0:03:16.959,0:03:20.879
places we've been florida like 10 times
0:03:19.360,0:03:22.879
but we've got other places
0:03:20.879,0:03:26.000
we went to nigeria once when i was
0:03:22.879,0:03:27.280
younger because my dad was from
0:03:26.000,0:03:29.440
it was just it was a really happy
0:03:27.280,0:03:30.799
childhood i cannot complain at all about
0:03:29.440,0:03:32.640
my tests
0:03:30.799,0:03:34.879
you described yourself previously as
0:03:32.640,0:03:38.480
being a tomboy
0:03:34.879,0:03:40.480
yeah yeah um
0:03:38.480,0:03:42.319
i guess when i was really young i did
0:03:40.480,0:03:44.159
have
0:03:42.319,0:03:45.680
i guess more female friends than male
0:03:44.159,0:03:48.720
ones like maybe
0:03:45.680,0:03:50.799
elementary school so
0:03:48.720,0:03:51.920
you know we play dolls and things every
0:03:50.799,0:03:55.280
once in a while
0:03:51.920,0:03:58.640
but i remember
0:03:55.280,0:04:01.840
in like the fourth grade whenever recess
0:03:58.640,0:04:03.280
uh we were led up for recess i was
0:04:01.840,0:04:05.200
always playing soccer
0:04:03.280,0:04:06.480
and i was the only girl that played
0:04:05.200,0:04:09.760
soccer
0:04:06.480,0:04:10.400
with a bunch of guns um and it was a lot
0:04:09.760,0:04:13.040
of fun
0:04:10.400,0:04:14.640
um one time i actually kicked a guy
0:04:13.040,0:04:17.920
right in his chin
0:04:14.640,0:04:17.920
it was the guy had a crush on dude
0:04:18.639,0:04:21.840
how did that go definitely a
0:04:20.560,0:04:24.080
psychologist
0:04:21.840,0:04:25.840
that absolutely sucked but he forgave me
0:04:24.080,0:04:29.440
because he was an accident like i'm not
0:04:25.840,0:04:33.199
gunning for your i can't aim i'm sorry
0:04:29.440,0:04:34.639
but no um fast forward to
0:04:33.199,0:04:36.400
i don't remember what i was really into
0:04:34.639,0:04:38.160
in middle school for some reason
0:04:36.400,0:04:40.400
uh that was kind of a blur it was a lot
0:04:38.160,0:04:42.560
of bullying at that time so i didn't
0:04:40.400,0:04:44.639
i guess i try and block it out but in
0:04:42.560,0:04:45.280
high school i made more guy friends i
0:04:44.639,0:04:47.840
had a
0:04:45.280,0:04:50.080
it was a good mix um that's kind of when
0:04:47.840,0:04:51.680
i was getting more into video games
0:04:50.080,0:04:53.360
um i think that's when we got a
0:04:51.680,0:04:54.400
playstation 2 that i kind of shared with
0:04:53.360,0:04:57.520
my brother
0:04:54.400,0:04:59.280
but um i also got kind of been really
0:04:57.520,0:05:00.639
into anime at that time
0:04:59.280,0:05:02.080
i've been watching anime since i was
0:05:00.639,0:05:03.520
eight my neighbor totoro was the first
0:05:02.080,0:05:07.440
anime i ever saw
0:05:03.520,0:05:10.560
um very very cute very very cute movie
0:05:07.440,0:05:11.280
but i started gravitor gravitating more
0:05:10.560,0:05:14.080
towards
0:05:11.280,0:05:14.880
uh like anime and gaming and at the time
0:05:14.080,0:05:16.160
it was more
0:05:14.880,0:05:18.400
console gaming like the playing
0:05:16.160,0:05:20.880
playstation but that's when i started
0:05:18.400,0:05:24.400
developing more and more guy friends
0:05:20.880,0:05:25.680
i've always just like weird things like
0:05:24.400,0:05:28.880
method like uh
0:05:25.680,0:05:30.800
greek roman mythology uh like dinosaurs
0:05:28.880,0:05:33.840
like uh astronomy those were things
0:05:30.800,0:05:36.639
i were interested in so
0:05:33.840,0:05:38.000
it wasn't as much like playing house or
0:05:36.639,0:05:41.840
anything like that
0:05:38.000,0:05:44.880
sure and then going off to college uh
0:05:41.840,0:05:47.759
my my gaming increased
0:05:44.880,0:05:49.520
i found guys to play with most of my
0:05:47.759,0:05:52.560
anime club there was
0:05:49.520,0:05:55.919
guy and you know to this day my
0:05:52.560,0:05:58.160
my friend base is like 95 guy
0:05:55.919,0:05:59.199
and that's you know because i am a gamer
0:05:58.160,0:06:02.240
because i am
0:05:59.199,0:06:03.199
into anime i'm in i am a brony and i'm a
0:06:02.240,0:06:06.639
furry
0:06:03.199,0:06:09.680
and all of those are nerd habits
0:06:06.639,0:06:12.400
and nerd habits are traditionally
0:06:09.680,0:06:13.440
largely white male and heterosexual
0:06:12.400,0:06:16.560
separate
0:06:13.440,0:06:17.360
so um i think that's why i have so many
0:06:16.560,0:06:20.639
guy friends
0:06:17.360,0:06:24.000
and i just always gravitate towards
0:06:20.639,0:06:27.280
kind of nerdy sciencey stuff
0:06:24.000,0:06:27.600
which i can't i won't say is strictly a
0:06:27.280,0:06:30.400
die
0:06:27.600,0:06:33.360
thing um especially not now there are
0:06:30.400,0:06:36.639
quite a few women and like the steps
0:06:33.360,0:06:39.280
i've just never been girly i've never
0:06:36.639,0:06:40.639
you know really played in makeup um i
0:06:39.280,0:06:41.759
don't think my mom let me wear makeup
0:06:40.639,0:06:44.080
ever anyway
0:06:41.759,0:06:46.160
unless i was doing like a ballet recital
0:06:44.080,0:06:47.840
so i know i to this day i still know how
0:06:46.160,0:06:49.759
to put on makeup i just balance it on
0:06:47.840,0:06:52.960
and hope
0:06:49.759,0:06:52.960
i think i wear it like once a year
0:06:54.160,0:06:58.000
the reason i ask these questions about
0:06:55.520,0:06:59.759
your childhood and about about
0:06:58.000,0:07:02.080
how you would see yourself and use the
0:06:59.759,0:07:04.000
word tomboy is that
0:07:02.080,0:07:05.919
having spoken to you previously before
0:07:04.000,0:07:07.360
recording today i feel like it sets the
0:07:05.919,0:07:10.160
scene well it gets it gives us
0:07:07.360,0:07:10.880
an idea of who you are which then leads
0:07:10.160,0:07:13.199
me just to
0:07:10.880,0:07:14.560
ask you just to briefly talk about the
0:07:13.199,0:07:16.000
surgery that you've had and we'll go
0:07:14.560,0:07:18.319
back in time more and explore this
0:07:16.000,0:07:21.360
more later but you've had surgery before
0:07:18.319,0:07:25.039
to prevent yourself from having kids
0:07:21.360,0:07:28.960
um yes in 2016
0:07:25.039,0:07:32.560
um i decided to just go ahead and get
0:07:28.960,0:07:34.720
a tubal ligation and
0:07:32.560,0:07:35.840
there weren't as many options back then
0:07:34.720,0:07:37.599
even though it
0:07:35.840,0:07:39.120
back then sounds like you know 20 years
0:07:37.599,0:07:40.800
ago
0:07:39.120,0:07:42.160
but um
0:07:40.800,0:07:44.000
[Music]
0:07:42.160,0:07:45.360
i always knew i didn't want kids ever
0:07:44.000,0:07:48.800
since middle school
0:07:45.360,0:07:51.039
um and my
0:07:48.800,0:07:52.560
honestly dislike of kids has increased
0:07:51.039,0:07:54.080
since i got older
0:07:52.560,0:07:57.120
now if i see a kid in the street am i
0:07:54.080,0:07:59.440
gonna slap that kid no who does that
0:07:57.120,0:08:01.120
don't do that nothing like that please
0:07:59.440,0:08:02.000
don't do that we do we would like you to
0:08:01.120,0:08:04.720
stay out of
0:08:02.000,0:08:05.840
like trouble yeah no i i have no desire
0:08:04.720,0:08:08.560
to do it it's just
0:08:05.840,0:08:10.160
you know i've always kids just aren't
0:08:08.560,0:08:12.080
appealing to me they just aren't
0:08:10.160,0:08:15.280
something i've ever desired
0:08:12.080,0:08:18.160
um there aren't um i
0:08:15.280,0:08:18.560
i don't i'm not a childless person i'm
0:08:18.160,0:08:21.039
not
0:08:18.560,0:08:22.960
missing something in my mind uh i'm a
0:08:21.039,0:08:23.680
child free person which means i'm very
0:08:22.960,0:08:26.960
happy with that
0:08:23.680,0:08:29.759
like it's like the equivalent of saying
0:08:26.960,0:08:30.879
debtless versus debt-free um when she
0:08:29.759,0:08:32.240
you know people are happy when they're
0:08:30.879,0:08:33.120
debt-free but no one says they're
0:08:32.240,0:08:34.640
debt-less like
0:08:33.120,0:08:37.039
i don't really have debt right now but
0:08:34.640,0:08:40.320
you know one day one day i'll get dead
0:08:37.039,0:08:40.320
that's that's not just compensation
0:08:41.409,0:08:46.000
[Laughter]
0:08:44.320,0:08:47.360
but going back to the surgery i'm sorry
0:08:46.000,0:08:48.800
i i'm a squirrel and i
0:08:47.360,0:08:51.279
wander all over the place that's what
0:08:48.800,0:08:54.399
we're here for so do we
0:08:51.279,0:08:55.519
i um i decided to go ahead and take that
0:08:54.399,0:08:58.800
final step
0:08:55.519,0:09:01.839
uh i think at the time i had marina
0:08:58.800,0:09:04.800
inserted so one of the iuds
0:09:01.839,0:09:06.240
which i knew that i can't remember what
0:09:04.800,0:09:08.160
iud stands for but it's one of the ones
0:09:06.240,0:09:11.360
that are inserted
0:09:08.160,0:09:13.040
there um
0:09:11.360,0:09:14.720
and i decided i'm just gonna go
0:09:13.040,0:09:15.760
permanent because i know i don't want
0:09:14.720,0:09:19.200
kids
0:09:15.760,0:09:20.880
and now the arduous task of finding a
0:09:19.200,0:09:24.160
doctor to do it
0:09:20.880,0:09:26.160
um that is a major complaint
0:09:24.160,0:09:27.279
from child free people specifically
0:09:26.160,0:09:28.720
women um
0:09:27.279,0:09:30.000
you will see a lot of that on the child
0:09:28.720,0:09:31.360
free stuff there are a lot of women who
0:09:30.000,0:09:32.800
do want to get sterilized because they
0:09:31.360,0:09:36.399
know they don't want kids
0:09:32.800,0:09:37.519
they can't find doctors for a variety of
0:09:36.399,0:09:39.760
you know that you'll change your mind
0:09:37.519,0:09:41.120
when you get older you know some just
0:09:39.760,0:09:41.920
say well you gotta have at least three
0:09:41.120,0:09:44.720
kids
0:09:41.920,0:09:46.480
before i stare okay well i don't want
0:09:44.720,0:09:49.600
any so what
0:09:46.480,0:09:52.080
is that it's
0:09:49.600,0:09:54.880
i i won't go super political but it's
0:09:52.080,0:09:57.200
very much an affront on women's choice
0:09:54.880,0:09:58.640
um no one bats deny what a woman says
0:09:57.200,0:10:01.279
hey i'm pregnant
0:09:58.640,0:10:03.200
um regardless of her age if she's 15
0:10:01.279,0:10:06.880
people will still congratulate her
0:10:03.200,0:10:07.920
yet if i'm 30 you'll question me up and
0:10:06.880,0:10:10.399
down the line
0:10:07.920,0:10:11.760
as to what i really want and that
0:10:10.399,0:10:14.800
doesn't make any sense to me
0:10:11.760,0:10:16.800
but luckily for me um i
0:10:14.800,0:10:19.120
was working down in st louis i just
0:10:16.800,0:10:22.240
found a doctor that supposedly would
0:10:19.120,0:10:23.920
sterilize me and i went to him and i
0:10:22.240,0:10:25.040
explained what i wanted i explained my
0:10:23.920,0:10:28.399
choices
0:10:25.040,0:10:29.360
uh and just i've had this for literally
0:10:28.399,0:10:31.279
decades
0:10:29.360,0:10:33.360
this wasn't a sudden i woke up today you
0:10:31.279,0:10:34.880
know what i'm going to have a cubicle
0:10:33.360,0:10:35.839
because i have nothing else to do with
0:10:34.880,0:10:39.120
my time today
0:10:35.839,0:10:41.920
so yeah that didn't happen so
0:10:39.120,0:10:43.200
he says um well you know it's permanent
0:10:41.920,0:10:44.320
right i was like yeah absolutely that's
0:10:43.200,0:10:46.160
why
0:10:44.320,0:10:47.600
um and he asked me a few other questions
0:10:46.160,0:10:48.399
and he came back and he's like you know
0:10:47.600,0:10:50.480
it's permanent right
0:10:48.399,0:10:52.480
like he wanted to shock me or surprise
0:10:50.480,0:10:54.959
him yes i still know that from the five
0:10:52.480,0:10:54.959
minutes ago
0:10:55.839,0:10:59.600
he's like okay i'm done with the song
0:10:57.839,0:11:01.920
and dance um
0:10:59.600,0:11:02.959
you we've got easter or astra i don't
0:11:01.920,0:11:06.560
know how to pronounce it
0:11:02.959,0:11:09.279
and we've got the tubal um i know i
0:11:06.560,0:11:10.240
bilateral self-indected me and butchered
0:11:09.279,0:11:13.200
that word
0:11:10.240,0:11:13.680
um is also a thing now i do not know if
0:11:13.200,0:11:17.120
it was
0:11:13.680,0:11:18.720
then um i hadn't really heard much about
0:11:17.120,0:11:20.560
it i wasn't too familiar with it my
0:11:18.720,0:11:20.959
doctor didn't mention it so it might not
0:11:20.560,0:11:24.640
have been
0:11:20.959,0:11:26.800
as widespread um so he said usher or
0:11:24.640,0:11:28.480
tubal and
0:11:26.800,0:11:30.160
obviously the tubals where they you'll
0:11:28.480,0:11:31.839
clip your tubes and then tie them
0:11:30.160,0:11:34.320
and you pray to god they don't untie
0:11:31.839,0:11:37.839
themselves blew themselves back
0:11:34.320,0:11:39.519
uh with a usher they take these metal
0:11:37.839,0:11:42.320
balls stick them in your uh
0:11:39.519,0:11:44.480
tooth and eventually your skin will kind
0:11:42.320,0:11:46.480
of grow around it completely blocking
0:11:44.480,0:11:47.839
both those two and with the bicep they
0:11:46.480,0:11:51.680
remove your teeth
0:11:47.839,0:11:55.040
um just for those who don't know um
0:11:51.680,0:11:58.560
and the issue with esther
0:11:55.040,0:12:00.800
is it's a metal ball and he asked me are
0:11:58.560,0:12:03.200
you allergic to any kind of metal
0:12:00.800,0:12:04.800
and i said yes many kinds of metal i
0:12:03.200,0:12:06.560
just by wearing jewelry
0:12:04.800,0:12:08.800
unless it's sterling silver or solid
0:12:06.560,0:12:11.200
gold i'm going to break out he's like
0:12:08.800,0:12:12.320
yeah we're not doing after that because
0:12:11.200,0:12:13.920
i don't know how that
0:12:12.320,0:12:16.959
breakout's going to work out inside your
0:12:13.920,0:12:20.079
uterus but let's not find it
0:12:16.959,0:12:24.320
no no no probably for the best
0:12:20.079,0:12:27.040
no um so yeah i chose uh the tubal
0:12:24.320,0:12:28.720
and i came home i told my parents says i
0:12:27.040,0:12:30.079
have to have someone to go with me they
0:12:28.720,0:12:33.200
have to knock me out for that
0:12:30.079,0:12:34.320
someone has to be with me and you know i
0:12:33.200,0:12:36.399
told my mom
0:12:34.320,0:12:37.920
and she's like okay what day are they
0:12:36.399,0:12:38.880
thinking you know i'm pretty sure i can
0:12:37.920,0:12:40.079
get off that day
0:12:38.880,0:12:43.040
you know i could take you down there i
0:12:40.079,0:12:45.200
can do this that's my mom my mom is the
0:12:43.040,0:12:47.760
most giving person i've ever met
0:12:45.200,0:12:48.560
i strive to be like her i'm nowhere
0:12:47.760,0:12:51.839
close to her
0:12:48.560,0:12:52.240
but one day i may get my hair um so she
0:12:51.839,0:12:54.160
was
0:12:52.240,0:12:56.160
all on board and she's very supportive i
0:12:54.160,0:12:57.680
know a lot of childhood people get
0:12:56.160,0:12:59.680
a lot of crap from their friends and
0:12:57.680,0:13:02.560
family and random strangers too
0:12:59.680,0:13:04.320
who are you go away but with friends and
0:13:02.560,0:13:05.839
family it's a lot harder for her and
0:13:04.320,0:13:06.959
i've never gotten i'm very very
0:13:05.839,0:13:09.680
fortunate
0:13:06.959,0:13:10.720
um when the day came for the surgery she
0:13:09.680,0:13:12.720
you know told my dad
0:13:10.720,0:13:13.760
you know uh you know michael i'm going
0:13:12.720,0:13:15.200
with nicky down
0:13:13.760,0:13:17.200
uh down south we're gonna do the
0:13:15.200,0:13:17.839
procedure all of that and he's like
0:13:17.200,0:13:19.440
what's in
0:13:17.839,0:13:21.279
like what was the procedure and she said
0:13:19.440,0:13:22.720
oh it's the tubal ligation
0:13:21.279,0:13:25.040
what's that again and so she had to
0:13:22.720,0:13:27.600
explain it to him a few times
0:13:25.040,0:13:28.480
my dad doesn't have a medical background
0:13:27.600,0:13:31.120
so he's like
0:13:28.480,0:13:32.320
okay i get be careful be safe i'll see
0:13:31.120,0:13:35.360
you when you come back
0:13:32.320,0:13:37.040
um we went down there it was you know
0:13:35.360,0:13:39.040
pretty seamless
0:13:37.040,0:13:40.320
um you know my doctor explained
0:13:39.040,0:13:43.199
everything to my mom
0:13:40.320,0:13:44.959
uh using fancy medical jargon that she
0:13:43.199,0:13:48.560
can understand
0:13:44.959,0:13:50.000
um you know i was out i was back in
0:13:48.560,0:13:51.760
it was of course there was a lot of pain
0:13:50.000,0:13:55.279
when i woke up because
0:13:51.760,0:13:57.040
they did stuff but it wasn't too bad
0:13:55.279,0:13:58.800
i was more tired than anything because
0:13:57.040,0:14:02.880
they used anesthesia
0:13:58.800,0:14:04.639
and i was waking up and recovering and
0:14:02.880,0:14:06.160
my mom said honey we've got to go back
0:14:04.639,0:14:07.760
uh at the time i lived down there so i
0:14:06.160,0:14:09.920
wasn't driving all the way back here
0:14:07.760,0:14:12.000
i was going to maryland heights where i
0:14:09.920,0:14:14.240
live um
0:14:12.000,0:14:16.320
and i remember being crabby i want to
0:14:14.240,0:14:19.120
sleep at the hospital because i was just
0:14:16.320,0:14:19.120
so groggy
0:14:19.199,0:14:22.639
i told my mom later on i know mom you're
0:14:21.519,0:14:23.360
struggling to get me out of this
0:14:22.639,0:14:25.440
hospital
0:14:23.360,0:14:27.040
what you should have told me was honey
0:14:25.440,0:14:28.839
the longer you stay the more it's going
0:14:27.040,0:14:31.839
to cost
0:14:28.839,0:14:31.839
because
0:14:32.690,0:14:40.480
[Laughter]
0:14:38.320,0:14:42.079
but i i know it's a long roundabout
0:14:40.480,0:14:44.000
story but that was the story of my two
0:14:42.079,0:14:46.720
delegation i've never had issues with
0:14:44.000,0:14:47.760
it my only regret is i wish i could have
0:14:46.720,0:14:49.440
had the bicep
0:14:47.760,0:14:50.959
um i believe there's supposed to be more
0:14:49.440,0:14:52.639
benefits i think related to certain
0:14:50.959,0:14:55.680
cancers when you get that
0:14:52.639,0:14:56.000
as well but it wasn't an option for me
0:14:55.680,0:14:57.440
and
0:14:56.000,0:14:58.399
i don't know and i didn't know much
0:14:57.440,0:15:00.240
about it and i don't know if my
0:14:58.399,0:15:03.760
insurance would have covered it at all
0:15:00.240,0:15:06.639
the tubal cost me i think 600 um
0:15:03.760,0:15:07.279
i think it was originally about around 8
0:15:06.639,0:15:09.199
000.
0:15:07.279,0:15:11.680
that's what it said on the bill and then
0:15:09.199,0:15:12.880
insurance cut it down to about you know
0:15:11.680,0:15:14.910
i'm not sure
0:15:12.880,0:15:16.880
i don't think it says it's free but
0:15:14.910,0:15:19.040
[Laughter]
0:15:16.880,0:15:20.480
that's something something for you no
0:15:19.040,0:15:23.519
that's interesting because we've had
0:15:20.480,0:15:26.160
another guest on the show who has had
0:15:23.519,0:15:27.680
um that procedure done um and we're
0:15:26.160,0:15:28.800
going to catch up with her as well to
0:15:27.680,0:15:30.880
find out how that went
0:15:28.800,0:15:32.000
so we've done the before conversation
0:15:30.880,0:15:34.160
yeah and now we're going to have a
0:15:32.000,0:15:36.079
conversation with her for after
0:15:34.160,0:15:37.600
so um which is interesting because
0:15:36.079,0:15:39.199
you're already you're kind of in that
0:15:37.600,0:15:40.320
middle place where you know all about it
0:15:39.199,0:15:41.680
but um
0:15:40.320,0:15:43.519
we were learning for the first time when
0:15:41.680,0:15:45.759
we spoke to her so okay
0:15:43.519,0:15:47.920
really kind of interesting um what
0:15:45.759,0:15:51.600
you're saying even four years ago
0:15:47.920,0:15:55.839
the options were different for you yeah
0:15:51.600,0:15:59.279
and also amazing how medicine changes um
0:15:55.839,0:16:02.160
the issue with the tubal or any other
0:15:59.279,0:16:04.079
uh sterilization is of course it's not
0:16:02.160,0:16:05.440
it doesn't affect your
0:16:04.079,0:16:08.639
sorry to get graphic it doesn't affect
0:16:05.440,0:16:08.639
your periods sure
0:16:16.160,0:16:21.440
um but it doesn't affect that at all and
0:16:19.040,0:16:23.279
i have something called endometriosis
0:16:21.440,0:16:25.120
which just makes life a living hell with
0:16:23.279,0:16:27.600
your period so
0:16:25.120,0:16:29.440
even though i am sterilized that doesn't
0:16:27.600,0:16:31.120
do anything for endometriosis and i knew
0:16:29.440,0:16:31.759
that going in doesn't affect your
0:16:31.120,0:16:34.560
ovaries
0:16:31.759,0:16:36.000
so i'm still on birth control they i'm
0:16:34.560,0:16:37.839
on a new birth control they came out
0:16:36.000,0:16:40.560
with i think early this year
0:16:37.839,0:16:43.199
um and it erased my period so i haven't
0:16:40.560,0:16:46.959
seen the period in
0:16:43.199,0:16:50.160
january awesome
0:16:46.959,0:16:53.279
that's great so most of the year then
0:16:50.160,0:16:54.880
yeah yeah pretty much um i hate the fact
0:16:53.279,0:16:57.519
i have to take something every day
0:16:54.880,0:16:58.240
but you know i go on the alarm system at
0:16:57.519,0:17:00.560
10 pm
0:16:58.240,0:17:05.839
every day it goes off okay i have to
0:17:00.560,0:17:05.839
pause my game
0:17:06.880,0:17:11.120
i want to take you back to your what you
0:17:09.520,0:17:11.679
said about your childhoods and you
0:17:11.120,0:17:15.280
mentioned
0:17:11.679,0:17:16.640
you knew from middle school that you
0:17:15.280,0:17:19.839
didn't want to have kids could you put
0:17:16.640,0:17:23.760
an h on that
0:17:19.839,0:17:23.760
correct well what was that middle school
0:17:24.000,0:17:29.039
probably about 12 i'll say that i think
0:17:26.799,0:17:32.880
you enter high school in 14
0:17:29.039,0:17:32.880
sure um so about 12 12.
0:17:33.120,0:17:38.080
when i was in elementary school so
0:17:36.240,0:17:39.440
like eight or something like that nine
0:17:38.080,0:17:41.840
i'm not sure
0:17:39.440,0:17:43.440
um i didn't played with other kids i was
0:17:41.840,0:17:46.880
a kid but
0:17:43.440,0:17:47.840
it started it just was appealing less
0:17:46.880,0:17:50.080
and less to me
0:17:47.840,0:17:51.919
i just wasn't really a kid person
0:17:50.080,0:17:53.440
especially like really really young kids
0:17:51.919,0:17:57.039
and even babies
0:17:53.440,0:17:59.039
um i i babies don't really
0:17:57.039,0:18:00.080
appeal to me any either i'm not going to
0:17:59.039,0:18:02.080
say babies are horrible
0:18:00.080,0:18:03.440
creatures or anything like that these
0:18:02.080,0:18:06.400
aren't for me
0:18:03.440,0:18:07.440
um and they cry a lot so that they cry
0:18:06.400,0:18:10.799
and i'm not
0:18:07.440,0:18:10.799
not excited after that
0:18:11.520,0:18:15.600
um but at that time i just i just
0:18:13.520,0:18:18.320
realized it wasn't something i wanted
0:18:15.600,0:18:19.679
before that like in elementary school
0:18:18.320,0:18:21.679
when i was really young
0:18:19.679,0:18:22.960
i i wanted kids because that's what you
0:18:21.679,0:18:25.280
do uh
0:18:22.960,0:18:28.480
it's what everybody does and you know
0:18:25.280,0:18:31.440
obviously my parents did the same thing
0:18:28.480,0:18:32.160
and so my my i think it's a few years
0:18:31.440,0:18:34.799
ago my
0:18:32.160,0:18:36.160
since my mom retired she retired first
0:18:34.799,0:18:37.120
uh she's been going through their big
0:18:36.160,0:18:38.720
huge basements
0:18:37.120,0:18:40.320
and going through everything and trying
0:18:38.720,0:18:42.559
to get rid of stuff and trying to clean
0:18:40.320,0:18:44.080
it just do a huge deep clean down there
0:18:42.559,0:18:46.640
and she found some of our stuff when we
0:18:44.080,0:18:48.080
were kids and i think i was the second
0:18:46.640,0:18:49.919
grade she saw this little
0:18:48.080,0:18:51.440
booklet i made and it had all of my
0:18:49.919,0:18:54.160
aspirations for
0:18:51.440,0:18:56.160
the rest of my life at the age of like
0:18:54.160,0:18:57.840
seven or whatever area
0:18:56.160,0:18:59.600
and in there was like i wanted three
0:18:57.840,0:19:00.799
kids and she showed it to me i was like
0:18:59.600,0:19:05.840
burn it
0:19:00.799,0:19:05.840
now i never want to see that again wow
0:19:06.080,0:19:11.600
she didn't actually burn it no but
0:19:09.440,0:19:12.960
she um found it funny that she found
0:19:11.600,0:19:14.960
this um
0:19:12.960,0:19:16.080
and i was like yeah that's me that's
0:19:14.960,0:19:19.360
where my mind was
0:19:16.080,0:19:22.640
then but it changed a lot so um
0:19:19.360,0:19:25.679
just getting older i never had
0:19:22.640,0:19:26.880
that desire and i won't say i'm not a
0:19:25.679,0:19:29.280
nurturing person
0:19:26.880,0:19:30.880
i'm very nurturing towards my family
0:19:29.280,0:19:32.799
towards my friends
0:19:30.880,0:19:35.919
towards my hedgehog that hates me i
0:19:32.799,0:19:35.919
still love her um
0:19:36.160,0:19:40.000
yep she's in the other room she's asleep
0:19:37.919,0:19:43.679
right now today
0:19:40.000,0:19:45.440
um but i so i'm a very nurturing caring
0:19:43.679,0:19:48.240
person just
0:19:45.440,0:19:48.720
not as much towards little humans like i
0:19:48.240,0:19:52.160
i
0:19:48.720,0:19:52.480
i told paul before i used to work uh
0:19:52.160,0:19:54.880
when
0:19:52.480,0:19:55.919
i took taekwondo a few years ago i would
0:19:54.880,0:19:58.000
help the
0:19:55.919,0:19:59.280
them train some of the kids like some of
0:19:58.000,0:20:01.440
the advanced kids
0:19:59.280,0:20:02.880
so i did work with kids a lot of those
0:20:01.440,0:20:05.760
kids were good kids
0:20:02.880,0:20:06.960
um one had some one had issues i
0:20:05.760,0:20:08.960
couldn't really deal with him
0:20:06.960,0:20:10.799
and two were just lazy but most of them
0:20:08.960,0:20:13.760
were really good kids so
0:20:10.799,0:20:15.039
it as an adult i i have worked with kids
0:20:13.760,0:20:18.480
i've worked with kids uh
0:20:15.039,0:20:21.440
at my church back in my literature um so
0:20:18.480,0:20:22.880
i stay i don't care for kids but i used
0:20:21.440,0:20:24.320
to say i hate kids and i don't think
0:20:22.880,0:20:27.679
that's
0:20:24.320,0:20:30.159
correct anymore um they just
0:20:27.679,0:20:31.600
aren't for me they aren't really my
0:20:30.159,0:20:34.960
favorite thing
0:20:31.600,0:20:38.480
like i'll see a kid in public and
0:20:34.960,0:20:40.640
i'll kind of walk this way
0:20:38.480,0:20:42.080
around i'm not gonna say anything i'm
0:20:40.640,0:20:45.600
not gonna do anything
0:20:42.080,0:20:47.919
um but they just
0:20:45.600,0:20:48.799
i if you show me your baby i'm not going
0:20:47.919,0:20:51.679
to fawn
0:20:48.799,0:20:53.440
over it uh if you well if you say oh
0:20:51.679,0:20:56.559
here's my baby i'll oh it's you
0:20:53.440,0:20:56.559
i will say that to people
0:20:57.520,0:21:01.360
no who does that but i'm not going to go
0:21:00.240,0:21:03.840
out of my way to
0:21:01.360,0:21:04.480
hold it and cuddle it and and do all
0:21:03.840,0:21:07.760
it's just
0:21:04.480,0:21:10.559
it's just and i think i learned that in
0:21:07.760,0:21:12.400
middle closing yeah do you think that
0:21:10.559,0:21:17.520
was around about the same time
0:21:12.400,0:21:19.120
that your youngest sibling came along
0:21:17.520,0:21:21.280
well she drove me nuts maybe that was
0:21:19.120,0:21:23.520
hard
0:21:21.280,0:21:24.480
because i have my brother in the middle
0:21:23.520,0:21:26.159
but
0:21:24.480,0:21:28.159
we always got along really well he's a
0:21:26.159,0:21:30.320
gamer like me um
0:21:28.159,0:21:31.840
he's an angry gamer but he's a gamer
0:21:30.320,0:21:32.880
like me because he reads quitting all
0:21:31.840,0:21:34.400
the time
0:21:32.880,0:21:36.080
you can hear him because he still lives
0:21:34.400,0:21:38.080
with my parents so you can hear him
0:21:36.080,0:21:39.840
yelling all manner of first words
0:21:38.080,0:21:41.360
from his bedroom at night and he's
0:21:39.840,0:21:44.720
telling the people but
0:21:41.360,0:21:47.360
my sister and we get along fine now
0:21:44.720,0:21:48.559
um and she's finishing up her last year
0:21:47.360,0:21:50.480
at washington i think
0:21:48.559,0:21:52.480
it's business and fashion uh those are
0:21:50.480,0:21:55.520
her majors but
0:21:52.480,0:21:56.799
just i think i had to help with her a
0:21:55.520,0:21:59.120
little bit
0:21:56.799,0:22:00.400
i definitely wasn't one of those people
0:21:59.120,0:22:03.200
that
0:22:00.400,0:22:04.880
like the the oldest of like six kids and
0:22:03.200,0:22:05.760
their parents were either working all
0:22:04.880,0:22:08.080
the time
0:22:05.760,0:22:09.520
or they're just flipping lazy and they
0:22:08.080,0:22:12.799
make the older kids they essentially
0:22:09.520,0:22:12.799
take care of the younger one
0:22:15.120,0:22:20.000
um no like my my mom would say i'm
0:22:18.960,0:22:21.840
running to the store
0:22:20.000,0:22:24.240
can you watch your siblings for an hour
0:22:21.840,0:22:26.640
and i was like you know 13 or 14 so i'm
0:22:24.240,0:22:30.240
old enough to do that
0:22:26.640,0:22:31.760
that was the extent of me caring for my
0:22:30.240,0:22:34.000
siblings i was like okay it's an hour i
0:22:31.760,0:22:35.440
could do that
0:22:34.000,0:22:37.280
but so yeah you know i learned how to
0:22:35.440,0:22:39.600
change diapers and things like that
0:22:37.280,0:22:40.799
uh with my sister with my brother i
0:22:39.600,0:22:42.159
think i was sick so i probably didn't
0:22:40.799,0:22:44.320
learn this
0:22:42.159,0:22:46.080
at the time but for my sister definitely
0:22:44.320,0:22:48.240
and you know i helped with that
0:22:46.080,0:22:50.320
um i did minor things everyone saw i
0:22:48.240,0:22:53.280
feed her or something like that but
0:22:50.320,0:22:54.640
it i it definitely wasn't a case where i
0:22:53.280,0:22:57.679
know some child people
0:22:54.640,0:22:59.919
child free people are like that because
0:22:57.679,0:23:01.200
they essentially have to be parents to
0:22:59.919,0:23:01.840
their siblings because they didn't have
0:23:01.200,0:23:05.200
a choice
0:23:01.840,0:23:06.640
that's also not it's not the case with
0:23:05.200,0:23:08.000
me
0:23:06.640,0:23:10.000
that was something that i had i'd
0:23:08.000,0:23:11.360
wondered when i saw the the age gap
0:23:10.000,0:23:12.960
between you and your siblings whether
0:23:11.360,0:23:14.960
that had been the case that you'd had to
0:23:12.960,0:23:16.480
take care of the youngest sibling
0:23:14.960,0:23:18.640
and that's you kind of got out your
0:23:16.480,0:23:20.080
system i'd wondered if that was
0:23:18.640,0:23:21.919
what part of your decision-making
0:23:20.080,0:23:23.919
process but it's nice to hear that like
0:23:21.919,0:23:24.720
there's that wasn't an influence for you
0:23:23.919,0:23:27.360
it was
0:23:24.720,0:23:27.919
no you've always just felt sure about
0:23:27.360,0:23:30.640
yourself
0:23:27.919,0:23:31.919
and yeah you feel yeah to me what
0:23:30.640,0:23:35.200
strikes me as
0:23:31.919,0:23:35.520
has been so so striking i guess i i work
0:23:35.200,0:23:36.799
in
0:23:35.520,0:23:38.799
secondary school as people call them
0:23:36.799,0:23:42.320
here i work with
0:23:38.799,0:23:43.520
young people who imagine who are 11 12
0:23:42.320,0:23:47.039
13 the sort of age
0:23:43.520,0:23:48.080
you are to me i can't imagine having a
0:23:47.039,0:23:50.720
conversation with
0:23:48.080,0:23:51.679
with one of those pupils and they for
0:23:50.720,0:23:54.480
them to be
0:23:51.679,0:23:55.360
as sure as it seems that you are and
0:23:54.480,0:23:57.120
you're
0:23:55.360,0:23:59.360
or you where i guess and your your
0:23:57.120,0:24:01.360
mindset back then can you think of
0:23:59.360,0:24:02.960
can you think of a point when you
0:24:01.360,0:24:04.320
realize that was the case or
0:24:02.960,0:24:06.240
can you perhaps think of what was
0:24:04.320,0:24:09.919
influencing you at the time that then
0:24:06.240,0:24:10.640
made that mindset stick unfortunately i
0:24:09.919,0:24:13.760
don't know if i
0:24:10.640,0:24:15.360
can i just i think i was gradually
0:24:13.760,0:24:17.679
realizing that's not really
0:24:15.360,0:24:19.600
my thing uh it definitely wasn't
0:24:17.679,0:24:22.799
something i was thinking about too much
0:24:19.600,0:24:26.240
as a middle schooler um i think
0:24:22.799,0:24:27.919
it manifested itself more in high school
0:24:26.240,0:24:29.279
i know that inkling was there in middle
0:24:27.919,0:24:31.440
school but
0:24:29.279,0:24:32.880
i guess it got stronger in high school
0:24:31.440,0:24:35.039
um i had some
0:24:32.880,0:24:36.480
you know female friends who said because
0:24:35.039,0:24:37.840
i would tell people all the time i don't
0:24:36.480,0:24:38.400
like kids i don't like kids i don't like
0:24:37.840,0:24:40.080
it
0:24:38.400,0:24:41.440
and they would say yeah you're gonna be
0:24:40.080,0:24:42.400
the first one of us to get pregnant
0:24:41.440,0:24:43.039
you're not even gonna make it out of
0:24:42.400,0:24:45.039
high school
0:24:43.039,0:24:47.039
and you'll be pregnant uh and they would
0:24:45.039,0:24:48.000
constantly tease me about that and high
0:24:47.039,0:24:52.000
school ended
0:24:48.000,0:24:52.000
and all three of them got pregnant
0:24:54.159,0:25:00.320
that's like i don't know if i can middle
0:24:55.919,0:25:02.240
finger but yeah
0:25:00.320,0:25:03.760
so yeah i got that teasing in high
0:25:02.240,0:25:07.120
school but that
0:25:03.760,0:25:08.720
i think it manifested itself more in
0:25:07.120,0:25:11.279
high school because
0:25:08.720,0:25:13.360
that's generally a time where people can
0:25:11.279,0:25:14.080
get pregnant or well i'm sorry i do get
0:25:13.360,0:25:17.200
pregnant
0:25:14.080,0:25:19.520
or get someone pregnant um
0:25:17.200,0:25:21.600
i yeah i guess talked about more about
0:25:19.520,0:25:23.600
that period doesn't it
0:25:21.600,0:25:25.039
yeah i i thankfully do not remember
0:25:23.600,0:25:25.919
anyone in my middle school getting
0:25:25.039,0:25:27.679
pregnant
0:25:25.919,0:25:29.279
because that's i mean it it is
0:25:27.679,0:25:31.520
physically possible
0:25:29.279,0:25:32.720
but that's a horrifying concept to me
0:25:31.520,0:25:35.120
that you're
0:25:32.720,0:25:36.000
12 and you're pregnant or you're 12 and
0:25:35.120,0:25:37.919
you've got someone
0:25:36.000,0:25:39.440
pregnant that's it yes i know it can
0:25:37.919,0:25:43.120
happen it has
0:25:39.440,0:25:45.120
but i think that's why it was
0:25:43.120,0:25:46.400
that's when i first got the idea in my
0:25:45.120,0:25:48.400
mind but
0:25:46.400,0:25:50.559
it wasn't uh something i thought of a
0:25:48.400,0:25:51.600
lot in this yeah not a fully developed
0:25:50.559,0:25:53.279
concept but
0:25:51.600,0:25:55.360
definitely in the back the seed of it
0:25:53.279,0:25:57.279
was like
0:25:55.360,0:25:58.559
because it wasn't it wasn't in my the
0:25:57.279,0:25:58.880
forefront the forefront you know that
0:25:58.559,0:26:01.120
was
0:25:58.880,0:26:03.440
was getting bullied a lot so that was in
0:26:01.120,0:26:06.320
the forefront of my mind at the time
0:26:03.440,0:26:06.320
um and
0:26:06.720,0:26:11.039
even like adults they don't they don't
0:26:09.200,0:26:12.240
really talk to you about having kids and
0:26:11.039,0:26:13.360
things like that when you're in middle
0:26:12.240,0:26:15.200
school
0:26:13.360,0:26:16.400
most don't talk to you about that like
0:26:15.200,0:26:18.080
no one in my family
0:26:16.400,0:26:19.919
no one in my church they're not talking
0:26:18.080,0:26:21.120
to us about having kids in high school
0:26:19.919,0:26:23.679
either
0:26:21.120,0:26:25.120
they want us to not do that they want us
0:26:23.679,0:26:26.799
to go off to college
0:26:25.120,0:26:28.400
or trade school or the military or
0:26:26.799,0:26:32.240
whatever you care about sure
0:26:28.400,0:26:33.440
uh so that inkling was there in middle
0:26:32.240,0:26:35.520
school but it
0:26:33.440,0:26:37.120
i think i expressed it a lot more in
0:26:35.520,0:26:38.960
high school because that was definitely
0:26:37.120,0:26:42.400
the time where it was
0:26:38.960,0:26:44.559
more common to have a kid
0:26:42.400,0:26:45.919
a monarchy i want to ask you about
0:26:44.559,0:26:46.799
something you mentioned before when we
0:26:45.919,0:26:49.919
were
0:26:46.799,0:26:51.600
prepping for for this this episode
0:26:49.919,0:26:53.039
you spoke about a misconception that
0:26:51.600,0:26:55.360
exists we met
0:26:53.039,0:26:57.039
through reddit we met on a i think it
0:26:55.360,0:26:58.559
was a child-free subreddit
0:26:57.039,0:27:00.640
and you you said that there's a
0:26:58.559,0:27:02.320
misconception that if you are a
0:27:00.640,0:27:05.360
child-free person
0:27:02.320,0:27:07.520
that you immediately hate children where
0:27:05.360,0:27:10.799
does that come from
0:27:07.520,0:27:12.400
um there's a lot of theories i don't
0:27:10.799,0:27:14.320
know if there's any specific like
0:27:12.400,0:27:16.559
scientific research to back this up so
0:27:14.320,0:27:20.320
this is probably going to be anecdotal
0:27:16.559,0:27:23.679
um and i think part of it
0:27:20.320,0:27:26.960
involves society um society
0:27:23.679,0:27:28.320
our society as americans very very
0:27:26.960,0:27:31.679
kid-centric
0:27:28.320,0:27:34.480
um we are uh
0:27:31.679,0:27:36.559
just a lot of leeway for kids and for
0:27:34.480,0:27:38.960
you know a lot of people who have them
0:27:36.559,0:27:40.960
so and it's just again it's also it's
0:27:38.960,0:27:42.000
often expected you are going to grow up
0:27:40.960,0:27:45.360
get married
0:27:42.000,0:27:50.000
kids retire die that's your life
0:27:45.360,0:27:50.000
congrats um done you did a good job
0:27:51.919,0:27:58.880
oh my god i'm dying um don't do it
0:27:55.679,0:28:02.799
i'm not finished speaking to you
0:27:58.880,0:28:03.760
they killed me this conversation pushed
0:28:02.799,0:28:06.399
her over the edge
0:28:03.760,0:28:06.399
never happened
0:28:07.039,0:28:12.240
um but no
0:28:10.240,0:28:14.840
that is if you're not having kids you
0:28:12.240,0:28:18.799
automatically hate kids
0:28:14.840,0:28:18.799
and it's
0:28:19.520,0:28:24.399
i think a big part of it is society just
0:28:22.640,0:28:26.080
how can you not want kids you must be a
0:28:24.399,0:28:29.440
child-hating monster
0:28:26.080,0:28:31.200
and it's it's not at all true there are
0:28:29.440,0:28:32.559
some people who don't care for kids in
0:28:31.200,0:28:34.480
varying degrees
0:28:32.559,0:28:36.399
and i'm probably a terrible person
0:28:34.480,0:28:40.480
asking because i'm not a fan of kids
0:28:36.399,0:28:42.799
but i don't outright hate them
0:28:40.480,0:28:44.799
um there are a lot of people who work
0:28:42.799,0:28:46.480
with kids they are teachers they are
0:28:44.799,0:28:49.440
nannies or au pairs
0:28:46.480,0:28:50.080
they volunteer big brothers big sisters
0:28:49.440,0:28:52.320
um
0:28:50.080,0:28:54.080
so there are a lot of people who regular
0:28:52.320,0:28:54.559
social workers they regularly work with
0:28:54.080,0:28:56.240
kids
0:28:54.559,0:28:59.440
and they love kids they just don't want
0:28:56.240,0:29:02.799
their own there are some people who
0:28:59.440,0:29:05.440
are about strangers kids but
0:29:02.799,0:29:07.440
like they are the cool uncle or aunt and
0:29:05.440,0:29:11.360
they love their nieces and nephews
0:29:07.440,0:29:12.720
um there are some people who just flat
0:29:11.360,0:29:15.760
out do not like kids
0:29:12.720,0:29:18.480
and that's fine too but it is like
0:29:15.760,0:29:19.679
with most things it is a spectrum there
0:29:18.480,0:29:21.919
are people on
0:29:19.679,0:29:22.799
one side on the other and many many in
0:29:21.919,0:29:26.080
the middle
0:29:22.799,0:29:28.559
um so i think just the fact
0:29:26.080,0:29:30.399
that especially a woman if she doesn't
0:29:28.559,0:29:31.520
want kids she must be a child-hating
0:29:30.399,0:29:34.559
monster
0:29:31.520,0:29:35.520
um it's there's a lot of misconceptions
0:29:34.559,0:29:36.960
about women that
0:29:35.520,0:29:39.360
especially if they aren't married by a
0:29:36.960,0:29:40.320
certain time and you're a baron spencer
0:29:39.360,0:29:44.000
that's you know
0:29:40.320,0:29:44.000
a crabby witch that lives in the floor
0:29:44.240,0:29:48.080
i do so hope that that is changing like
0:29:46.399,0:29:49.919
modern society should be getting around
0:29:48.080,0:29:51.360
to the fact now that
0:29:49.919,0:29:53.840
everybody has different choices they're
0:29:51.360,0:29:55.600
making different choices and that's okay
0:29:53.840,0:29:59.440
like i'm not really sure
0:29:55.600,0:30:02.559
why we're so slow to change but
0:29:59.440,0:30:02.559
well we're american so
0:30:02.720,0:30:05.840
speak for yourself that's all i have to
0:30:04.080,0:30:10.159
say
0:30:05.840,0:30:13.200
and yes i say that as an american um
0:30:10.159,0:30:15.360
then won't get into politics but our
0:30:13.200,0:30:17.440
politics
0:30:15.360,0:30:19.520
our politics are well on display right
0:30:17.440,0:30:21.520
now well the thing is it's the same in
0:30:19.520,0:30:22.159
our country is very much a 50 50-50
0:30:21.520,0:30:24.480
split
0:30:22.159,0:30:25.200
in our country at the moment and where
0:30:24.480,0:30:27.919
we had
0:30:25.200,0:30:29.279
a a big vote for leaving europe or
0:30:27.919,0:30:32.720
staying in europe
0:30:29.279,0:30:34.399
and so you can see that the
0:30:32.720,0:30:36.720
society as a whole does seem to be in
0:30:34.399,0:30:38.159
that transition period they're fractured
0:30:36.720,0:30:39.840
there's half people who believe another
0:30:38.159,0:30:42.080
thing or half people it's maybe not even
0:30:39.840,0:30:43.760
a belief structure it's just
0:30:42.080,0:30:45.360
it just i think it's a very good
0:30:43.760,0:30:47.120
representation of how
0:30:45.360,0:30:50.000
society at the moment is on a pivotal
0:30:47.120,0:30:53.760
point where it could go either way
0:30:50.000,0:30:55.440
and um i suppose in a hundred years time
0:30:53.760,0:30:57.919
when people looking back that'll be an
0:30:55.440,0:30:58.480
exciting thing to look back on and we'll
0:30:57.919,0:31:00.399
not
0:30:58.480,0:31:02.000
but we don't realize kind of where we
0:31:00.399,0:31:04.480
are in that point in history right now
0:31:02.000,0:31:06.320
so transitional yeah it's very
0:31:04.480,0:31:08.240
transitional i think it's it's very
0:31:06.320,0:31:10.240
evident by the fact that
0:31:08.240,0:31:12.080
big western countries like america and
0:31:10.240,0:31:15.039
britain
0:31:12.080,0:31:17.279
are split right down the middle um and
0:31:15.039,0:31:19.519
on the viewpoints of things and
0:31:17.279,0:31:20.960
probably children and child care and
0:31:19.519,0:31:21.440
having children and all those things
0:31:20.960,0:31:23.519
i'll be
0:31:21.440,0:31:25.039
included in that kind of spectrum that
0:31:23.519,0:31:27.679
you're talking about
0:31:25.039,0:31:28.240
with um that just difference of her
0:31:27.679,0:31:31.120
opinion
0:31:28.240,0:31:32.000
with like yeah exactly it's really
0:31:31.120,0:31:34.720
interesting
0:31:32.000,0:31:35.919
monica and what you said a number of
0:31:34.720,0:31:40.159
those
0:31:35.919,0:31:43.200
sort of images um really
0:31:40.159,0:31:46.480
really what's the word um
0:31:43.200,0:31:48.880
epitomize ryan and i in the sense that
0:31:46.480,0:31:50.240
you spoke about teachers who who do
0:31:48.880,0:31:51.519
their job and they love their job and
0:31:50.240,0:31:52.080
they work with with children young
0:31:51.519,0:31:53.840
people
0:31:52.080,0:31:55.440
and they don't know or they don't want
0:31:53.840,0:31:57.760
to have kids and i'm sort of in that
0:31:55.440,0:31:59.600
boat right now where i don't know myself
0:31:57.760,0:32:00.320
he spoke about ryan you swear you spoke
0:31:59.600,0:32:02.480
about
0:32:00.320,0:32:03.600
um people want to be the cool uncle or
0:32:02.480,0:32:06.159
the cool aunt and that's
0:32:03.600,0:32:07.840
where i was yeah a few years back yeah
0:32:06.159,0:32:09.360
absolutely in previous episodes he's
0:32:07.840,0:32:10.640
dialed into that and spoken about it
0:32:09.360,0:32:13.120
had to have spoken at a great length
0:32:10.640,0:32:14.240
about that it's so interesting that that
0:32:13.120,0:32:16.640
permeates throughout the world i
0:32:14.240,0:32:18.159
wondered um a monarchy what your
0:32:16.640,0:32:21.360
experience is
0:32:18.159,0:32:22.399
have you had have you have you had
0:32:21.360,0:32:25.039
people who have
0:32:22.399,0:32:26.080
been affronted by your decision have you
0:32:25.039,0:32:27.840
had people who have
0:32:26.080,0:32:29.360
basically said that well as a child-free
0:32:27.840,0:32:32.640
woman you must
0:32:29.360,0:32:35.279
hate children i
0:32:32.640,0:32:36.240
thankfully haven't in part because i've
0:32:35.279,0:32:38.559
said that myself
0:32:36.240,0:32:40.240
back when i was saying i hate kids
0:32:38.559,0:32:42.480
that's what i would say i hate kids
0:32:40.240,0:32:43.919
so i didn't give you a chance to tell me
0:32:42.480,0:32:47.120
that i just
0:32:43.919,0:32:49.679
take that but
0:32:47.120,0:32:51.200
just again i've been extremely fortunate
0:32:49.679,0:32:53.440
because i read a lot of
0:32:51.200,0:32:54.880
you know the other stories on that sub
0:32:53.440,0:32:56.559
specifically
0:32:54.880,0:32:58.960
um and a lot of people aren't as lucky
0:32:56.559,0:33:02.000
as me um they're just affronted on
0:32:58.960,0:33:03.440
all sides by friends by family by that
0:33:02.000,0:33:04.399
lady in the grocery store that can't
0:33:03.440,0:33:07.679
mind your own business
0:33:04.399,0:33:10.559
it really doesn't make any sense but um
0:33:07.679,0:33:13.440
so i i verbally have told people i'm not
0:33:10.559,0:33:16.480
a kid person i'm just not a fan of kids
0:33:13.440,0:33:20.799
but excuse me but i've never
0:33:16.480,0:33:23.440
been really um
0:33:20.799,0:33:25.840
i've never been like attacked for my
0:33:23.440,0:33:25.840
choice
0:33:26.640,0:33:29.840
yeah it's and again i'm very fortunate
0:33:29.279,0:33:31.200
i'm very
0:33:29.840,0:33:33.039
lucky in that regard because a lot of
0:33:31.200,0:33:35.039
people don't get that um
0:33:33.039,0:33:36.399
you know i told people you know i just
0:33:35.039,0:33:39.200
don't want kids okay
0:33:36.399,0:33:40.080
a few people you know ask why um and
0:33:39.200,0:33:42.000
i'll just say
0:33:40.080,0:33:43.919
i'll just explain they aren't for me
0:33:42.000,0:33:45.360
they're not i'm not interested in them i
0:33:43.919,0:33:47.840
don't want to be a parent
0:33:45.360,0:33:48.480
and they say oh and we talk about
0:33:47.840,0:33:51.679
something else
0:33:48.480,0:33:54.799
which is how it should be um but
0:33:51.679,0:33:56.960
yeah there are some people that uh
0:33:54.799,0:33:59.840
just and now these are stories i've read
0:33:56.960,0:34:04.159
unlike reddit so these aren't my stories
0:33:59.840,0:34:06.720
just from a boss or a co-worker or
0:34:04.159,0:34:08.159
uh or family member you know why aren't
0:34:06.720,0:34:10.800
you having kids
0:34:08.159,0:34:11.839
you know you that's what women are
0:34:10.800,0:34:14.159
supposed to do
0:34:11.839,0:34:15.839
or you know you should be carrying on
0:34:14.159,0:34:19.040
the family name you know if you're male
0:34:15.839,0:34:21.200
or female or male respectively um it's
0:34:19.040,0:34:23.760
or i want grandkids or you know whatever
0:34:21.200,0:34:23.760
it may be
0:34:24.000,0:34:29.679
and i feel so awful for those people
0:34:27.200,0:34:29.679
because
0:34:30.560,0:34:34.560
how does your how how does me have it
0:34:33.200,0:34:36.560
not having his affect you
0:34:34.560,0:34:38.399
how's that affect your life yeah i i
0:34:36.560,0:34:40.960
often wonder why people who have
0:34:38.399,0:34:41.599
absolutely no investment in your life at
0:34:40.960,0:34:45.119
all
0:34:41.599,0:34:46.079
feel like they have a say in your life
0:34:45.119,0:34:48.480
like you're saying the women in the
0:34:46.079,0:34:49.679
grocery store for example why like she's
0:34:48.480,0:34:52.000
never going to see you again why does
0:34:49.679,0:34:54.159
she care
0:34:52.000,0:34:55.599
well how dare you not fit the mold
0:34:54.159,0:34:57.760
that's what i would and some people
0:34:55.599,0:34:57.760
think
0:34:58.079,0:35:02.079
it's yeah some people are like just you
0:35:00.240,0:35:03.760
know this is what we do as human beings
0:35:02.079,0:35:04.880
you need to fall in line some people
0:35:03.760,0:35:06.640
have that
0:35:04.880,0:35:09.440
i understand you know some you know
0:35:06.640,0:35:13.520
parents want grandkids to spoil
0:35:09.440,0:35:16.480
um but that was definitely my experience
0:35:13.520,0:35:17.920
my mom was definitely when you're having
0:35:16.480,0:35:19.599
when you're having grandkids
0:35:17.920,0:35:22.880
ryan when's that happening you've got
0:35:19.599,0:35:22.880
married so surely
0:35:22.960,0:35:27.200
so that's the yeah it was a bit of an
0:35:25.119,0:35:28.720
expectation but that that i know my mum
0:35:27.200,0:35:29.280
so that she's obviously going to be like
0:35:28.720,0:35:31.040
that
0:35:29.280,0:35:32.880
but other people weren't very pushy
0:35:31.040,0:35:35.440
about it like my mum is
0:35:32.880,0:35:36.400
i've lauren to herself and that's okay
0:35:35.440,0:35:38.000
um and she's
0:35:36.400,0:35:40.240
she's got some investment in my life so
0:35:38.000,0:35:43.359
she you know she's allowed to have
0:35:40.240,0:35:44.000
um a say but random people on the street
0:35:43.359,0:35:47.200
or even
0:35:44.000,0:35:47.680
friends that like you see you see them
0:35:47.200,0:35:49.839
but
0:35:47.680,0:35:51.359
they don't live your life for you so how
0:35:49.839,0:35:52.320
can they say what you should and
0:35:51.359,0:35:54.000
shouldn't do
0:35:52.320,0:35:56.240
i mean this the reason why we did this
0:35:54.000,0:35:58.240
podcast was one not to be judgey in any
0:35:56.240,0:36:01.359
way we just find it really interesting
0:35:58.240,0:36:03.920
how seemingly mundane topics or
0:36:01.359,0:36:05.520
seemingly everyday topics um
0:36:03.920,0:36:07.200
there's different walks of life
0:36:05.520,0:36:08.720
different people different um
0:36:07.200,0:36:11.280
thought processes and it's the thought
0:36:08.720,0:36:12.560
processes that spark our enthusiasm on
0:36:11.280,0:36:15.920
this because
0:36:12.560,0:36:17.599
um the why is kind of the interesting
0:36:15.920,0:36:20.960
part of this for us
0:36:17.599,0:36:22.320
um and that's probably evident in the
0:36:20.960,0:36:25.040
kind of questions we've asked you
0:36:22.320,0:36:26.880
um about your childhoods and your
0:36:25.040,0:36:28.000
thought process and decision making
0:36:26.880,0:36:29.920
process
0:36:28.000,0:36:31.200
um is there anything else you could
0:36:29.920,0:36:33.359
pinpoint
0:36:31.200,0:36:34.400
uh or is it just do you think your own
0:36:33.359,0:36:37.280
personality
0:36:34.400,0:36:39.359
that is is the reason for it that it's
0:36:37.280,0:36:41.680
there's no kind of external factor it
0:36:39.359,0:36:43.680
just is who you are
0:36:41.680,0:36:45.520
i think it really is more who i am i was
0:36:43.680,0:36:49.440
never pressured to
0:36:45.520,0:36:51.119
have children um and the people who
0:36:49.440,0:36:52.560
throw in their two cents i have no
0:36:51.119,0:36:54.240
problem ignoring them
0:36:52.560,0:36:55.839
because it's easy to throw in your two
0:36:54.240,0:36:58.480
cents when
0:36:55.839,0:36:59.359
you lose nothing when you're not vested
0:36:58.480,0:37:01.599
in it
0:36:59.359,0:37:03.119
um so yes easy for oh you have cute you
0:37:01.599,0:37:04.960
know babies
0:37:03.119,0:37:07.119
you aren't raising them though are you i
0:37:04.960,0:37:10.960
wish it would be all my
0:37:07.119,0:37:12.240
i could lose and i especially as a woman
0:37:10.960,0:37:14.160
in the modern era
0:37:12.240,0:37:15.760
i think more and more women are thinking
0:37:14.160,0:37:16.960
about
0:37:15.760,0:37:19.200
actually thinking about whether they
0:37:16.960,0:37:21.599
want kids when they want kids and
0:37:19.200,0:37:23.599
because more and more there's so much
0:37:21.599,0:37:27.359
information at your fingertips
0:37:23.599,0:37:29.760
and you can see what it takes to
0:37:27.359,0:37:31.920
raise a kid not just financially but
0:37:29.760,0:37:35.200
there are a lot of other costs to it
0:37:31.920,0:37:36.240
um and so i i know those costs i don't
0:37:35.200,0:37:40.160
want
0:37:36.240,0:37:42.400
it's not worth it to me and so i know it
0:37:40.160,0:37:44.240
my mind isn't going to change and i'm
0:37:42.400,0:37:47.359
very fortunate that i have parents
0:37:44.240,0:37:50.160
that um support me in that decision
0:37:47.359,0:37:50.880
i actually had a conversation like that
0:37:50.160,0:37:52.640
i was
0:37:50.880,0:37:54.320
uh visiting my parents you know weekly
0:37:52.640,0:37:57.760
visit over at their house
0:37:54.320,0:38:00.960
um and my sister had to be there and
0:37:57.760,0:38:03.680
yeah we were talking about dating
0:38:00.960,0:38:05.119
and my sister and i and my dad just
0:38:03.680,0:38:08.160
happened to walk in the room
0:38:05.119,0:38:12.240
and she brought up some goofy
0:38:08.160,0:38:15.599
dating uh dating service where it was
0:38:12.240,0:38:17.119
like men pay and you go
0:38:15.599,0:38:18.560
i don't know it was very weird it was
0:38:17.119,0:38:19.839
something i was like that'll sit right
0:38:18.560,0:38:22.880
with me that's weird i want men paying
0:38:19.839,0:38:22.880
me for dates that's freaky
0:38:23.200,0:38:26.320
i don't know i'd be okay if you paid me
0:38:24.640,0:38:28.640
for if you paid me for a date i think
0:38:26.320,0:38:30.000
i'd be okay with that
0:38:28.640,0:38:32.960
i was gonna ask what's your wife gonna
0:38:30.000,0:38:32.960
say yes i
0:38:41.280,0:38:45.680
and you're making money for it maybe
0:38:42.880,0:38:46.079
maybe it was a very weird thing that my
0:38:45.680,0:38:47.359
sister
0:38:46.079,0:38:49.839
brought up my dad happened to walk in
0:38:47.359,0:38:50.240
the room and he's like what the heck are
0:38:49.839,0:38:52.320
you
0:38:50.240,0:38:53.520
talking about that sounds weird can we
0:38:52.320,0:38:56.400
explain
0:38:53.520,0:38:57.520
um so what was the name of that that
0:38:56.400,0:39:00.960
happened
0:38:57.520,0:39:00.960
let me just remember
0:39:08.960,0:39:12.800
how do you feel about us you know
0:39:11.200,0:39:13.359
getting married and everything and he's
0:39:12.800,0:39:14.560
like
0:39:13.359,0:39:18.160
you don't have to get married or have
0:39:14.560,0:39:18.960
kids to be happy to fulfill myself your
0:39:18.160,0:39:20.560
mom
0:39:18.960,0:39:22.079
and that honestly surprised me because
0:39:20.560,0:39:24.000
my dad's nigeria
0:39:22.079,0:39:26.400
um they're they're very big on they
0:39:24.000,0:39:29.280
don't necessarily have big family
0:39:26.400,0:39:30.400
um all the nigerian uncles and aunts i
0:39:29.280,0:39:32.400
know here in the state
0:39:30.400,0:39:33.680
they have three or fewer kids they don't
0:39:32.400,0:39:37.040
have big men okay
0:39:33.680,0:39:39.920
so um but the fact that they're very
0:39:37.040,0:39:41.040
family-centric that surprised me when he
0:39:39.920,0:39:43.200
said that to me
0:39:41.040,0:39:45.040
i was like are you are you wait what i
0:39:43.200,0:39:47.680
mean i'm sterilized anyway so that's
0:39:45.040,0:39:49.680
just sale but
0:39:47.680,0:39:51.440
he's like yeah i don't care if you have
0:39:49.680,0:39:52.880
ever get married if you ever have kids
0:39:51.440,0:39:54.640
it's up to you
0:39:52.880,0:39:56.640
maybe he just wanted you to know that he
0:39:54.640,0:39:59.280
was still on your side regardless
0:39:56.640,0:40:01.040
yeah i i was very i was very pleased i
0:39:59.280,0:40:02.640
was just surprised i was like
0:40:01.040,0:40:04.160
aren't you supposed to you know get
0:40:02.640,0:40:05.839
married and pass on the family he's like
0:40:04.160,0:40:06.240
well maybe like in the 80s or whatever
0:40:05.839,0:40:07.520
but
0:40:06.240,0:40:10.400
we've gotten past that we don't care
0:40:07.520,0:40:11.920
anymore but okay cool that that worked
0:40:10.400,0:40:13.599
i think an an argument for that is
0:40:11.920,0:40:15.680
probably how many failed marriages has
0:40:13.599,0:40:17.760
been since like the 80s to now
0:40:15.680,0:40:19.680
from what and people have stayed
0:40:17.760,0:40:20.079
together because only because of kids
0:40:19.680,0:40:23.520
some
0:40:20.079,0:40:25.040
people um and like
0:40:23.520,0:40:26.319
i don't have the statistics to hand so
0:40:25.040,0:40:26.800
i'm just making this up off the top of
0:40:26.319,0:40:29.920
my head
0:40:26.800,0:40:32.000
29 yeah
0:40:29.920,0:40:33.760
but i'm sure the percentage for for
0:40:32.000,0:40:36.240
failed marriages in the
0:40:33.760,0:40:37.280
over for well in the last 30 40 years
0:40:36.240,0:40:39.520
has to be
0:40:37.280,0:40:40.720
fairly high it has to be they start off
0:40:39.520,0:40:44.640
and i thought it was about
0:40:40.720,0:40:47.839
50 50. yes as much as that
0:40:44.640,0:40:49.359
and then divorce today um but yeah since
0:40:47.839,0:40:51.839
i think the 70s
0:40:49.359,0:40:53.760
they it shut up it's probably because it
0:40:51.839,0:40:54.880
has become easier and the stigma is not
0:40:53.760,0:40:56.960
as big and
0:40:54.880,0:40:58.480
right and women have more choices as
0:40:56.960,0:41:01.280
opposed to exactly yeah
0:40:58.480,0:41:02.480
just everybody has more choices and i
0:41:01.280,0:41:04.400
think that's a good thing like the world
0:41:02.480,0:41:07.599
should be full of choices and
0:41:04.400,0:41:08.319
and not people not be like judged for
0:41:07.599,0:41:11.599
that
0:41:08.319,0:41:12.560
yeah let's talk about dating i'm really
0:41:11.599,0:41:15.839
interested to know
0:41:12.560,0:41:17.200
yeah so that app again yeah let me just
0:41:15.839,0:41:21.839
get my pin
0:41:17.200,0:41:21.839
i have to text my sister because i
0:41:29.599,0:41:37.839
i'm sure ryan will message you privately
0:41:34.560,0:41:38.560
what is it like approaching dating as a
0:41:37.839,0:41:41.920
child free
0:41:38.560,0:41:41.920
as a sterilized person
0:41:42.000,0:41:45.200
obviously you don't lead with that i'm
0:41:43.760,0:41:46.160
surely i'm sure that's not like your
0:41:45.200,0:41:48.400
first thing
0:41:46.160,0:41:49.680
on a profile or in a if you meet
0:41:48.400,0:41:51.520
somebody you don't go
0:41:49.680,0:41:53.200
so i don't want kids is that your first
0:41:51.520,0:41:56.720
introduction to
0:41:53.200,0:41:58.880
kind of yes oh really but
0:41:56.720,0:42:00.240
i am definitely the wrong person to ask
0:41:58.880,0:42:02.079
i'll try and answer
0:42:00.240,0:42:04.480
uh my last relationship was when i was
0:42:02.079,0:42:06.880
an undergrad that was
0:42:04.480,0:42:07.520
2010. i haven't been in a relationship
0:42:06.880,0:42:10.720
since then
0:42:07.520,0:42:12.560
so um and as i
0:42:10.720,0:42:14.400
told paul before we talked you know
0:42:12.560,0:42:16.160
before the recording um
0:42:14.400,0:42:18.480
a large chunk of that was i was trying
0:42:16.160,0:42:21.119
to find my own feet i was trying to
0:42:18.480,0:42:22.880
get a job you know get started career
0:42:21.119,0:42:24.560
didn't happen went to grad school done
0:42:22.880,0:42:26.400
it or not i was caring about
0:42:24.560,0:42:27.599
career and where i'm gonna stay and
0:42:26.400,0:42:31.119
settle so
0:42:27.599,0:42:34.400
for me i wasn't focused really at all
0:42:31.119,0:42:35.839
on dating not almost none of it these
0:42:34.400,0:42:39.280
past 10 years
0:42:35.839,0:42:42.240
um i've
0:42:39.280,0:42:43.359
gone out and i've met people in like my
0:42:42.240,0:42:44.800
meet up groups
0:42:43.359,0:42:46.480
run an anime group i run a mystery
0:42:44.800,0:42:47.040
science theater group now currently
0:42:46.480,0:42:50.400
online
0:42:47.040,0:42:52.079
um but i would meet people that way but
0:42:50.400,0:42:54.240
nothing really ever panned out there was
0:42:52.079,0:42:57.440
one guy who was interested in me
0:42:54.240,0:42:58.000
but we hit a crossroad he is on the
0:42:57.440,0:43:01.440
fence about
0:42:58.000,0:43:02.720
kids um and he is pro-life i am very
0:43:01.440,0:43:05.680
much pro-choice
0:43:02.720,0:43:08.079
and those two can't really work together
0:43:05.680,0:43:10.839
so outside of him i haven't really seen
0:43:08.079,0:43:13.680
much dating um or have that kind of
0:43:10.839,0:43:14.560
experience i will say i am on uk cupid
0:43:13.680,0:43:17.920
now
0:43:14.560,0:43:21.119
um i just on a whim one day during coco
0:43:17.920,0:43:24.000
i'll make another profile whatever um
0:43:21.119,0:43:26.079
yeah and i got quite a few matches and
0:43:24.000,0:43:29.839
intros or whatever they call them
0:43:26.079,0:43:29.839
um but
0:43:30.240,0:43:36.160
it's it's a lot of people love it a lot
0:43:34.400,0:43:37.440
of childhood people lament that it's
0:43:36.160,0:43:38.560
really hard dating when you're
0:43:37.440,0:43:42.400
challenged
0:43:38.560,0:43:45.760
and for me like on my profile
0:43:42.400,0:43:48.960
uh on okcupid it's on there um
0:43:45.760,0:43:52.000
it's on there twice actually um
0:43:48.960,0:43:53.599
they have a little uh like oh if you get
0:43:52.000,0:43:54.000
on someone's profile off to the right
0:43:53.599,0:43:55.440
side
0:43:54.000,0:43:57.680
there's like a little blurb like a
0:43:55.440,0:44:00.319
little summary of
0:43:57.680,0:44:01.200
why you know religion or i'm sorry race
0:44:00.319,0:44:03.359
religion
0:44:01.200,0:44:04.480
um whether you smoke whether you drink
0:44:03.359,0:44:04.960
whether you have kids whether you have
0:44:04.480,0:44:07.520
pets
0:44:04.960,0:44:08.720
it's at the top so if any if you don't
0:44:07.520,0:44:11.040
want to go through somebody's
0:44:08.720,0:44:12.079
big giant profile you can look at that
0:44:11.040,0:44:14.560
little blur
0:44:12.079,0:44:15.570
the lazy part of dating the lazy window
0:44:14.560,0:44:17.680
in the corner
0:44:15.570,0:44:20.240
[Laughter]
0:44:17.680,0:44:21.119
and at times i will admit i do use the
0:44:20.240,0:44:23.520
way
0:44:21.119,0:44:24.480
the way i look at profiles is like i'll
0:44:23.520,0:44:25.760
get someone
0:44:24.480,0:44:28.160
some guy will message me and they'll
0:44:25.760,0:44:29.599
send me an intro um and obviously their
0:44:28.160,0:44:30.240
picture is there but i'm not really
0:44:29.599,0:44:32.079
going to pay
0:44:30.240,0:44:34.240
attention to your picture i'm going to
0:44:32.079,0:44:35.280
see it because it pops up when you send
0:44:34.240,0:44:36.319
me an intro
0:44:35.280,0:44:38.000
but i'm not going to look at that i'm
0:44:36.319,0:44:39.359
going to click on your name and the
0:44:38.000,0:44:40.640
first thing i'm going to look at is that
0:44:39.359,0:44:43.040
little blurb
0:44:40.640,0:44:44.880
to be perfectly honest and i'm looking
0:44:43.040,0:44:47.440
for a couple things
0:44:44.880,0:44:47.920
um on my profile it says does god have
0:44:47.440,0:44:50.960
kids
0:44:47.920,0:44:54.560
does not want if it says
0:44:50.960,0:44:59.200
does not have but might want but wants
0:44:54.560,0:45:02.640
or has kids then i'm passing right there
0:44:59.200,0:45:04.800
that helps me cut people out yes
0:45:02.640,0:45:06.319
i can see how helpful that would be for
0:45:04.800,0:45:07.839
for you if you're not
0:45:06.319,0:45:09.920
looking for the the children in your
0:45:07.839,0:45:12.800
life right um
0:45:09.920,0:45:14.480
to have a section that says them not not
0:45:12.800,0:45:16.319
having kids not want your kids i mean
0:45:14.480,0:45:18.079
and i use that section for other things
0:45:16.319,0:45:20.480
as well like uh
0:45:18.079,0:45:21.760
i do not smoke i am not looking for a
0:45:20.480,0:45:24.800
smoker at all
0:45:21.760,0:45:25.839
um in that blurb if it says you smoke i
0:45:24.800,0:45:27.920
pass immediately
0:45:25.839,0:45:29.440
because that that just cuts down on time
0:45:27.920,0:45:30.720
if i look at that blurb and there's
0:45:29.440,0:45:32.240
nothing that shoots out of me
0:45:30.720,0:45:33.760
then i will actually go through your
0:45:32.240,0:45:35.760
entire profile and i'll read
0:45:33.760,0:45:36.960
everything about you yeah it's a useful
0:45:35.760,0:45:39.760
summary i understand
0:45:36.960,0:45:41.680
yeah and i use that some on my own
0:45:39.760,0:45:43.040
profile but at the very bottom i have a
0:45:41.680,0:45:46.800
list of things that
0:45:43.040,0:45:49.680
i'm not i'm not looking for as well
0:45:46.800,0:45:50.880
so like it says down there i do not want
0:45:49.680,0:45:52.880
to date a smoker
0:45:50.880,0:45:55.040
but it also says i am a child free
0:45:52.880,0:45:58.400
individual which means i do not want
0:45:55.040,0:46:02.000
kids biological adopted staff
0:45:58.400,0:46:04.560
step parent or foster so if you
0:46:02.000,0:46:05.599
have or want kids i'm probably not the
0:46:04.560,0:46:07.599
girl for you
0:46:05.599,0:46:08.880
that is in the very bottom of my profile
0:46:07.599,0:46:12.319
but as i said
0:46:08.880,0:46:15.680
my not wanting kids is on there twice
0:46:12.319,0:46:17.440
and yet i still gotten messages from
0:46:15.680,0:46:19.599
dads and i've gotten messages from
0:46:17.440,0:46:21.760
people who will actively want kids and i
0:46:19.599,0:46:21.760
just
0:46:22.480,0:46:25.680
but you see why that is that's people
0:46:24.000,0:46:26.079
looking for a challenge to change your
0:46:25.680,0:46:27.920
mind
0:46:26.079,0:46:29.280
i was just gonna say that people just go
0:46:27.920,0:46:31.839
out of their way for a challenge
0:46:29.280,0:46:33.200
sometimes that's uh i can i can change
0:46:31.839,0:46:35.760
your mind i've got a kid so it doesn't
0:46:33.200,0:46:37.359
mean you don't want to date me
0:46:35.760,0:46:39.760
and that's why i mean it's at the bottom
0:46:37.359,0:46:41.599
of the so i mean i heard nobody reads
0:46:39.760,0:46:44.480
profile i mean i
0:46:41.599,0:46:46.000
but especially nobody reads profiles so
0:46:44.480,0:46:49.040
i have on there
0:46:46.000,0:46:52.079
that's why i define child free no kids
0:46:49.040,0:46:56.700
biological adopted step
0:46:52.079,0:47:00.800
which means your kid or foster
0:46:56.700,0:47:03.119
[Laughter]
0:47:00.800,0:47:05.119
so and they might there might be some
0:47:03.119,0:47:07.680
guys who think they can
0:47:05.119,0:47:08.960
but they're not going to get to talk to
0:47:07.680,0:47:12.079
me because if you put
0:47:08.960,0:47:12.800
you have kids or you might want them i
0:47:12.079,0:47:14.160
will just click
0:47:12.800,0:47:16.000
past i'm not going to respond to your
0:47:14.160,0:47:18.960
input because
0:47:16.000,0:47:21.040
right in that blurb i've weeded you out
0:47:18.960,0:47:22.960
that basically it sounds awful but
0:47:21.040,0:47:24.559
like i don't want someone with his i
0:47:22.960,0:47:26.559
don't want someone who smokes i don't
0:47:24.559,0:47:27.119
want someone who does drugs etc and so
0:47:26.559,0:47:28.640
forth
0:47:27.119,0:47:30.319
i can just imagine somebody watching
0:47:28.640,0:47:32.000
this going but
0:47:30.319,0:47:34.079
you know i'm split up from my other half
0:47:32.000,0:47:39.839
and i've got a kid and i really like you
0:47:34.079,0:47:42.000
i would really like you to respond
0:47:39.839,0:47:43.520
what percentage of monarchy of of
0:47:42.000,0:47:46.720
matches or
0:47:43.520,0:47:49.839
profiles would you say
0:47:46.720,0:47:52.960
are males who
0:47:49.839,0:47:55.839
either are child free or would be
0:47:52.960,0:47:58.640
happy to sort of fall in line with with
0:47:55.839,0:47:58.640
that expectation
0:47:58.960,0:48:02.240
that i can't answer i would need actual
0:48:00.960,0:48:04.160
statistics for that
0:48:02.240,0:48:07.760
looking at the people who've sent me
0:48:04.160,0:48:10.079
messages like i spoke with
0:48:07.760,0:48:11.680
i think i spoke with like six or seven
0:48:10.079,0:48:12.880
guys this time around
0:48:11.680,0:48:13.920
right now i'm just speaking with two of
0:48:12.880,0:48:15.040
them because though they just kind of
0:48:13.920,0:48:17.520
fell off i just
0:48:15.040,0:48:18.800
whatever happened um there were a few
0:48:17.520,0:48:20.400
other guys that had
0:48:18.800,0:48:22.319
doesn't have doesn't want on their
0:48:20.400,0:48:25.599
profile um
0:48:22.319,0:48:26.559
but so they i passed on them for other
0:48:25.599,0:48:28.400
reasons so
0:48:26.559,0:48:31.280
like they were looking for short-term
0:48:28.400,0:48:31.280
dating and hookups
0:48:31.839,0:48:35.280
not looking for a hookup um so there
0:48:34.400,0:48:37.440
have been
0:48:35.280,0:48:38.800
some guys i ended up talking to and some
0:48:37.440,0:48:41.680
i did pass on
0:48:38.800,0:48:43.359
that did say they didn't want you um i
0:48:41.680,0:48:47.119
think i spoke with a couple that said
0:48:43.359,0:48:50.160
might want that that's a risk but
0:48:47.119,0:48:51.359
it's it's just it's up to you if you
0:48:50.160,0:48:52.800
want to take that risk because they
0:48:51.359,0:48:55.040
could go either way
0:48:52.800,0:48:56.720
um but i would be very upfront with you
0:48:55.040,0:48:58.960
i do not want kids so if
0:48:56.720,0:49:01.359
that person decides they do we will
0:48:58.960,0:49:04.720
break up that's what's going to happen
0:49:01.359,0:49:04.720
and i'll let you know that i'm not
0:49:05.040,0:49:09.040
i guess i'm a weird person if you read
0:49:06.880,0:49:12.079
my profile you are reading me
0:49:09.040,0:49:15.119
i do not lie on my profile at all um
0:49:12.079,0:49:17.839
so what i say on there on there is
0:49:15.119,0:49:19.920
that's who i am at this point in time
0:49:17.839,0:49:22.559
broadly speaking would you say it's
0:49:19.920,0:49:24.319
a very small number of profiles that you
0:49:22.559,0:49:27.520
have most likely yeah oh yeah
0:49:24.319,0:49:28.720
the majority of profiles are going to
0:49:27.520,0:49:30.880
say
0:49:28.720,0:49:32.000
well a lot of them just say doesn't have
0:49:30.880,0:49:35.280
kids
0:49:32.000,0:49:38.400
and that second part isn't filled out so
0:49:35.280,0:49:40.640
i just nice and ambiguous for you then
0:49:38.400,0:49:44.400
so if it doesn't have kids who might
0:49:40.640,0:49:45.920
want them tomorrow
0:49:44.400,0:49:49.280
yeah that one i was like okay i'm gonna
0:49:45.920,0:49:49.280
need you to fill up that second half
0:49:49.760,0:49:52.800
of what you want so i'm giving you a
0:49:51.440,0:49:56.319
chance but you need to answer that
0:49:52.800,0:49:56.319
second part of that question first
0:49:56.400,0:50:00.800
there's a lot of a lot of things i look
0:49:59.280,0:50:02.880
at when i look at a profile
0:50:00.800,0:50:05.119
that little blurb it helps just to weed
0:50:02.880,0:50:08.240
out things i absolutely don't want
0:50:05.119,0:50:10.240
like the smoking like the kids etc but i
0:50:08.240,0:50:11.520
also look at your full profile on
0:50:10.240,0:50:14.240
okcupid you can answer
0:50:11.520,0:50:16.000
questions and that determines your match
0:50:14.240,0:50:17.599
percentage with other people
0:50:16.000,0:50:19.440
i will look at those questions you
0:50:17.599,0:50:20.240
answered especially the ones we disagree
0:50:19.440,0:50:22.319
on
0:50:20.240,0:50:23.440
and and uh you know some of them like
0:50:22.319,0:50:24.960
okay i don't really care
0:50:23.440,0:50:27.119
but some of them okay that's the red
0:50:24.960,0:50:28.960
flag for me i i've got to take it
0:50:27.119,0:50:31.359
sure there's a lot when it comes to
0:50:28.960,0:50:33.280
looking at profiles for me
0:50:31.359,0:50:36.160
interesting yeah it's a big decision
0:50:33.280,0:50:39.200
though and dating is a minefield
0:50:36.160,0:50:41.680
whether you have um
0:50:39.200,0:50:42.800
a list of things that you need to
0:50:41.680,0:50:44.800
criteria
0:50:42.800,0:50:46.079
everyone's got criteria i mean if anyone
0:50:44.800,0:50:48.960
says they don't they're lying
0:50:46.079,0:50:50.800
so you're sure of your correct criteria
0:50:48.960,0:50:53.280
you know what you're looking for
0:50:50.800,0:50:55.760
nobody can can give you any hassle for
0:50:53.280,0:50:59.440
that and
0:50:55.760,0:51:02.000
it just um it still surprises me that
0:50:59.440,0:51:04.000
and the whole child free thing is still
0:51:02.000,0:51:07.119
a bit of a stigma like
0:51:04.000,0:51:08.640
surely there are a lot of people out
0:51:07.119,0:51:12.720
there who are in the same
0:51:08.640,0:51:12.720
kind of position as you look looking for
0:51:13.119,0:51:16.400
free well i don't want to say freedom
0:51:14.400,0:51:17.680
and like well freedom but from a
0:51:16.400,0:51:20.640
scottish person that's a different it
0:51:17.680,0:51:20.640
has different connotations
0:51:20.839,0:51:26.319
um but yeah
0:51:22.319,0:51:26.319
just there must be
0:51:27.280,0:51:30.960
a change in the way society thinks there
0:51:29.040,0:51:34.000
has to be because
0:51:30.960,0:51:35.440
um again i don't again
0:51:34.000,0:51:37.280
it's not for us to judge anyone's
0:51:35.440,0:51:40.720
choices or decisions but
0:51:37.280,0:51:41.839
there must be pros to to being giant
0:51:40.720,0:51:44.640
free
0:51:41.839,0:51:45.440
um as you said freedom is a big part of
0:51:44.640,0:51:48.240
it
0:51:45.440,0:51:50.800
um i can kind of do whatever i want
0:51:48.240,0:51:53.839
whenever without having to
0:51:50.800,0:51:55.760
plan around someone else i mean frankly
0:51:53.839,0:51:57.599
being single that's
0:51:55.760,0:51:59.760
that's true as well i don't plan around
0:51:57.599,0:52:02.240
a significant other or spouse
0:51:59.760,0:52:03.280
um the difference being if i get a
0:52:02.240,0:52:06.400
spouse full
0:52:03.280,0:52:07.760
but i i do never want kids uh but i like
0:52:06.400,0:52:10.640
having this
0:52:07.760,0:52:11.359
this freedom to do whatever i want
0:52:10.640,0:52:14.640
whenever
0:52:11.359,0:52:18.800
within reason whenever i want um
0:52:14.640,0:52:22.880
thanks coronavirus yeah
0:52:18.800,0:52:22.880
i have so many examples um
0:52:23.280,0:52:27.040
just because i'm a big nerd i'm in a lot
0:52:25.440,0:52:30.240
of different fandoms
0:52:27.040,0:52:32.319
uh there's a lot of conventions i
0:52:30.240,0:52:34.720
i like to go to automatic conventions my
0:52:32.319,0:52:36.640
little pony convention story convention
0:52:34.720,0:52:38.640
i attended a my little pony convention
0:52:36.640,0:52:41.920
online last week
0:52:38.640,0:52:44.880
um with
0:52:41.920,0:52:46.640
it's harder to do that when you have you
0:52:44.880,0:52:47.839
know a spouse and or kid
0:52:46.640,0:52:50.960
i guess unless your spouse doesn't do it
0:52:47.839,0:52:53.200
too um it's just more of a it's gonna be
0:52:50.960,0:52:56.160
more expensive for them sure
0:52:53.200,0:52:56.640
um so instead of paying for you know a
0:52:56.160,0:52:58.800
bunch of
0:52:56.640,0:53:00.960
other like badges and what you know so
0:52:58.800,0:53:01.839
my kids can get in i can buy random crap
0:53:00.960,0:53:05.040
that i don't need
0:53:01.839,0:53:06.160
i i want anyway all over my house so i'm
0:53:05.040,0:53:09.920
very very good at that
0:53:06.160,0:53:12.480
uh but um i like the fact that i
0:53:09.920,0:53:13.119
can just i have the freedom to do
0:53:12.480,0:53:16.000
whatever
0:53:13.119,0:53:17.599
you know i i went to japan last year
0:53:16.000,0:53:20.559
with four guy friends
0:53:17.599,0:53:22.559
on a whim we found round-trip tickets
0:53:20.559,0:53:24.800
for 660. we're like
0:53:22.559,0:53:26.559
yeah we're gonna buy these tickets
0:53:24.800,0:53:29.760
they're super super cheap
0:53:26.559,0:53:32.240
that's not something i could do if i had
0:53:29.760,0:53:33.839
kids um maybe with a spout maybe
0:53:32.240,0:53:35.280
yourself and go with me but with kids
0:53:33.839,0:53:38.319
it'd be a lot difficult
0:53:35.280,0:53:40.000
and it would be very awkward me being
0:53:38.319,0:53:43.680
the only one with kids and then four
0:53:40.000,0:53:46.400
dudes that are single
0:53:43.680,0:53:47.760
a bit difficult but i like the fact that
0:53:46.400,0:53:49.359
i could just pick up and travel we were
0:53:47.760,0:53:52.079
supposed to go to japan this year
0:53:49.359,0:53:53.760
uh and then government so um thankfully
0:53:52.079,0:53:55.280
we got our money back
0:53:53.760,0:53:57.040
but we're planning on going next year
0:53:55.280,0:53:59.280
because we can't
0:53:57.040,0:54:00.880
because we have the money because we
0:53:59.280,0:54:02.880
could we have the
0:54:00.880,0:54:04.640
vacation time at work we can take that
0:54:02.880,0:54:07.520
off um
0:54:04.640,0:54:09.200
i even not just travel just being here
1 hr 4 min
January 12, 2021 Child Loss Story - One Living Twin
Jessica tells her story of grief, support and how she copes following the loss of one of her twins babies. She hopes to raise awareness to help others deal with similar situations and offers hope for the future. This connection was made on Reddit.
Transcript:----more----

0:00:00.000,0:00:05.440
she was a twin her sister passed away
0:00:03.360,0:00:06.640
in the hospital from an infection it's
0:00:05.440,0:00:08.639
one of those things where we're actually
0:00:06.640,0:00:09.440
engaged in litigation with the hospital
0:00:08.639,0:00:11.920
because
0:00:09.440,0:00:13.280
it was pretty blatant negligence like i
0:00:11.920,0:00:16.280
really do remember
0:00:13.280,0:00:18.600
just trying to exist and survive
0:00:16.280,0:00:19.700
[Music]
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[Applause]
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[Music]
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hello welcome to life it is just me the
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podcast
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where we talk about the things that
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we're all going through we'll
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have to deal with in life my name's paul
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i'm joined today by ryan and
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jessica hi guys hi how are you doing
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really really good ryan how are you i'm
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all right what about you paul
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nobody ever asks you
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i'm good i know well that's what happens
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and you always do the intro so
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what's to be expected and that's right
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we are here to talk about having kids
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having
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children this is our focus for our our
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season just now our first season yes
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we don't offer any judgment we're just
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here to
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bring you some ideas and some stories
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and some experiences from people
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all around the world jessica that is why
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you are here tell us a bit about
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yourself please
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um i'm an american from the middle of
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america and like i said earlier let me
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just apologize on behalf of
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at least half of my country um
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i'm i've been married for nine years
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today actually it's
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awesome oh congratulations yeah thank
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you
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um all i want well thank you for joining
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us power at my house
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it's a short list i'm glad you mentioned
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the presidency because
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i just i was going to mention it you
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know in case someone's listening to this
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and i don't know
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2027 or something right now literally we
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are awaiting
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the results of some key states for the
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2020 presidential election
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yeah also you 100
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you mentioned the electricity in your
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house
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yes we just had a really terrible ice
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storm
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so um everything was frozen and the
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trees split and
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knocked down a lot of lines and half the
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city
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um this was last tuesday i haven't had
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power at my house since last tuesday so
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i have been
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living in a one-bedroom condo that some
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friends of ours owns we're very very
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fortunate on our end
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but i've also means i've been
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co-sleeping with a four-year-old
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and do not recommend zero out of ten
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i do not recommend so
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i've been i've been kicked i have been
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slapped i've been pushed
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um i don't know how people i don't know
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how people do that so
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yes that's where that's where i'm at i
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guess that sets the scene quite nicely
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in there
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you've told us about who you are and
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certainly you you have a kid
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you've got a four-year-old um and
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tell us then about about your life
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you're 34 just now
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and you're how old is your is your child
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she's four she's four now um
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so i had her in 2016 when the world was
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still good
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um that's a reference to coronavirus i
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believe or could be the election i don't
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know
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i don't know it's an election it's an
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election dig um
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yeah when i still had hope uh
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so um she was
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she um she's wonderful um
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most days most of the time
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i would keep her um
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uh no it's great um she was
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you know as we've talked about you know
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mentioned before she was a twin
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um her sister passed away
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in the hospital from an infection um
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the day after she was born so um
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and actually that is you know we're it's
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one of those things where we're actually
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engaged in litigation with the hospital
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because
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it it was negligence i mean it was
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pretty blatant
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um negligence so um
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you know so parenthood for me has been a
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mixed bag
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really you know we thought we were uh
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have one in let's see
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and then it was surprised too
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and then we were like okay we're done
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and then it was
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grief and joy and you know the tough
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times that you go through
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you know as a new parent just learning
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how to
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navigate that life because it's very
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different from your life before
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that's something that's come across and
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a lot of the conversations that that
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ryan i've had to ryan
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you've spoken on previous episodes about
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your own life situation and having two
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kids of your own and
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at my current where i am just now 20
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almost 29
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um don't have kids yet sort of in that
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quandary well i won't
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i sort of thing um which is why it's
0:05:08.160,0:05:12.479
been so immensely helpful to to
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get some of these some of these ideas we
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we did say before that we would delve
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into some
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some possibly um uncomfortable places
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possibly
0:05:19.280,0:05:23.440
for you listening possibly as well and
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jessica i thought we could maybe start
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by talking as much as as much as you
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you're able and you want to about
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what it's like what it was like if any
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you had
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we're going to have twins then having
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birth giving birth to twins and
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and then eventually losing one
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um yeah so um
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i uh
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it happened really quickly like i was so
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i'm an attorney and i was
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um we my husband and i kind of knew that
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we wanted to have kids i think
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but i also like you know wanted that
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license to practice law like in my hand
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i didn't want to be
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one of these you know i didn't want to
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be studying for a bar exam
0:06:04.960,0:06:10.319
you know when i was pregnant and so
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but after after that you know i got i
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got pregnant really quickly and
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um i was very surprising and
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i just remember i had i had some issues
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and
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um my doctor had me go in for a very
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early ultrasound
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which is funny because it was on our
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anniversary it was on november 6th
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and uh i remember thinking like all
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right we're going to go out for dinner
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later
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and i'm either going to be really
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excited
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um or i'm gonna be sad and i'm gonna
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drink but either way there's something
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at the end of the tunnel
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and uh so we're sitting in the room and
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the
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you know the girl goes um listen if
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there's something to see i'll show you
0:06:47.039,0:06:50.400
okay and and so she's looking around
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she's asking us
0:06:50.400,0:06:54.319
how long have you been married you know
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is this your first pregnancy
0:06:54.319,0:06:57.840
and all of a sudden she just stops and
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she goes i'll be right back and she
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leaves the room
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and i looked at my husband like this is
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this is bad
0:07:02.960,0:07:07.840
you know there's not i'm i'm just like
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prepping myself and she comes back in
0:07:07.840,0:07:10.240
she turns the screen and she goes okay
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so
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um we found a heartbeat we actually
0:07:12.479,0:07:16.560
found two
0:07:14.400,0:07:17.840
and i'm thinking mine and the babies
0:07:16.560,0:07:20.319
right like that's
0:07:17.840,0:07:21.280
that equals two she turns the screen and
0:07:20.319,0:07:24.720
she goes so here's
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baby a and here's baby b
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and i looked at my husband and then i
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looked at the bathroom door
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thinking somebody was going to pop out
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and just yell you've been pumped
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you know i was i the only thing i could
0:07:36.880,0:07:43.199
say for like the next 10 to 15 minutes
0:07:39.840,0:07:44.560
was what was happening literally those
0:07:43.199,0:07:47.919
are the only
0:07:44.560,0:07:49.120
words that could form in my mouth and
0:07:47.919,0:07:50.800
um i don't know if you're going to have
0:07:49.120,0:07:52.020
to believe that or whatever but it is
0:07:50.800,0:07:53.680
just neither do we
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[Laughter]
0:07:53.680,0:07:57.900
i assume what's happening like how not
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twice
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[Music]
0:08:02.960,0:08:06.240
i'm also loving the fact that ryan's on
0:08:04.479,0:08:07.759
an ever slight delay
0:08:06.240,0:08:09.280
so we could do this for a few times it
0:08:07.759,0:08:10.479
would take him just a few seconds to
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catch up
0:08:10.479,0:08:17.520
okay okay um so yeah so
0:08:14.240,0:08:20.879
it was just it was it was crazy
0:08:17.520,0:08:24.080
um uh it was just crazy
0:08:20.879,0:08:26.160
so um yeah and it's you know it's
0:08:24.080,0:08:28.960
nerve-wracking because
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um you know i don't know if i don't know
0:08:28.960,0:08:31.360
if
0:08:29.280,0:08:33.279
you know ryan is you have kids i don't
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know if you your wife had any experience
0:08:33.279,0:08:35.919
with this but you know loss is very
0:08:34.959,0:08:39.279
common
0:08:35.919,0:08:43.360
um for women it's not you know it's
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it's not rare it happens a lot
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and so i think you know especially in
0:08:45.519,0:08:48.480
like multiple pregnancies and i think i
0:08:47.360,0:08:51.519
was always expecting
0:08:48.480,0:08:53.120
something to go wrong you know so
0:08:51.519,0:08:55.040
every time i went to the doctor and
0:08:53.120,0:08:56.959
everything was fine it just became more
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and more real of like this is gonna be
0:08:56.959,0:09:01.760
your life
0:08:58.000,0:09:02.880
and um you know so it's exciting i
0:09:01.760,0:09:06.480
mostly had a pretty
0:09:02.880,0:09:08.160
you know un um uneventful pregnancy i
0:09:06.480,0:09:11.519
was very lucky
0:09:08.160,0:09:14.959
um so up until the end
0:09:11.519,0:09:18.880
you know um
0:09:14.959,0:09:20.240
so i um i went to the hospital as
0:09:18.880,0:09:23.680
preeclamptic
0:09:20.240,0:09:25.040
so um i my blood my blood pressure when
0:09:23.680,0:09:28.160
i went to the hospital was
0:09:25.040,0:09:31.040
i think 200 over 110.
0:09:28.160,0:09:31.680
i basically should have like stroked out
0:09:31.040,0:09:34.959
and
0:09:31.680,0:09:36.560
died um so
0:09:34.959,0:09:38.240
i don't know we don't really need to go
0:09:36.560,0:09:39.519
into like you know the details of like
0:09:38.240,0:09:41.760
giving birth but
0:09:39.519,0:09:44.480
they got there and no please dude head
0:09:41.760,0:09:46.630
to somewhere ended up having a c-section
0:09:44.480,0:09:51.450
and the girls
0:09:46.630,0:09:51.450
[Laughter]
0:09:59.839,0:10:08.640
um so uh fine
0:10:04.880,0:10:12.079
um so my my girls went to the nicu
0:10:08.640,0:10:14.880
um i was recovering so my husband who is
0:10:12.079,0:10:16.959
right you want to say hi chris hi hi
0:10:14.880,0:10:20.880
chris hi chris
0:10:16.959,0:10:22.959
they say hi um he went up to the nicu
0:10:20.880,0:10:25.200
with them and i stayed down in the um
0:10:22.959,0:10:27.040
in the hospital room and what's the next
0:10:25.200,0:10:30.720
view sorry i'm not familiar with that
0:10:27.040,0:10:34.399
the neonatal intensive care unit okay
0:10:30.720,0:10:38.399
thank you so um yep so the the nicu and
0:10:34.399,0:10:42.240
um they just immediately started to have
0:10:38.399,0:10:43.440
you know have to put um lena that was my
0:10:42.240,0:10:45.600
daughter who passed away
0:10:43.440,0:10:47.760
nora is my living daughter they had to
0:10:45.600,0:10:49.440
put lena on a cpap and things just kind
0:10:47.760,0:10:52.959
of started going downhill
0:10:49.440,0:10:55.760
and we only found out later that they
0:10:52.959,0:10:58.399
like suspected that she had an infection
0:10:55.760,0:11:02.000
but they didn't give her antibiotics
0:10:58.399,0:11:05.360
for 14 hours after
0:11:02.000,0:11:08.720
they suspected that so
0:11:05.360,0:11:09.760
we um yeah so that look you know that
0:11:08.720,0:11:13.440
was tough it was
0:11:09.760,0:11:14.480
um it's it's you don't expect that to
0:11:13.440,0:11:17.279
happen to you
0:11:14.480,0:11:17.760
because you go to hospitals where you
0:11:17.279,0:11:21.120
trust
0:11:17.760,0:11:21.920
doctors and you think people stay on top
0:11:21.120,0:11:26.320
of things
0:11:21.920,0:11:28.800
and as a new mother
0:11:26.320,0:11:30.880
who's never been in that position you
0:11:28.800,0:11:33.040
know new parents my husband too we
0:11:30.880,0:11:35.130
didn't know the questions to ask
0:11:33.040,0:11:36.560
you know we didn't know um
0:11:35.130,0:11:37.839
[Music]
0:11:36.560,0:11:41.920
we didn't know what was going on we
0:11:37.839,0:11:43.519
didn't understand um a lot of things so
0:11:41.920,0:11:46.720
um
0:11:43.519,0:11:49.680
so yeah that was uh
0:11:46.720,0:11:51.519
we only got to you know hold her once i
0:11:49.680,0:11:55.279
held her as she passed
0:11:51.519,0:11:58.320
and my husband took her
0:11:55.279,0:12:00.880
downstairs um
0:11:58.320,0:12:02.639
and we were quiet we did request an
0:12:00.880,0:12:05.440
autopsy and then
0:12:02.639,0:12:06.959
she was buried two days later and i was
0:12:05.440,0:12:10.639
still in the hospital i didn't
0:12:06.959,0:12:12.320
um we didn't go to her funeral it was
0:12:10.639,0:12:13.760
frankly it was just too it would have
0:12:12.320,0:12:18.720
been too much
0:12:13.760,0:12:20.880
so um so yeah that's
0:12:18.720,0:12:21.920
it's it's a very intense you know
0:12:20.880,0:12:25.040
intense moment
0:12:21.920,0:12:28.000
and it's really um
0:12:25.040,0:12:29.440
you join you know two clubs that you
0:12:28.000,0:12:31.920
never expected to join
0:12:29.440,0:12:33.600
you know and it's it's weird like i
0:12:31.920,0:12:37.680
thought i was gonna be a twin mom
0:12:33.600,0:12:41.040
and then i was you know a grieving mom
0:12:37.680,0:12:43.600
so uh you know
0:12:41.040,0:12:45.680
it was it was i would i really wouldn't
0:12:43.600,0:12:48.800
wish it on anybody
0:12:45.680,0:12:49.680
it was it was bad yeah i mean i've
0:12:48.800,0:12:51.839
spoken to you
0:12:49.680,0:12:53.120
thank you so much for appreciating so
0:12:51.839,0:12:57.040
much it's such a
0:12:53.120,0:13:00.320
powerful story and
0:12:57.040,0:13:03.680
for us my our pregnancy was nora was in
0:13:00.320,0:13:03.680
the nicu for three weeks
0:13:04.240,0:13:08.800
oh yeah sorry i'm on the delay anna you
0:13:07.360,0:13:11.200
could i'm just interrupting everybody
0:13:08.800,0:13:12.560
left right and center
0:13:11.200,0:13:14.880
yeah you've got quite you've got quite a
0:13:12.560,0:13:17.200
big delay no no ryan go go ahead
0:13:14.880,0:13:18.639
afterwards no i was just gonna say just
0:13:17.200,0:13:22.000
offer my experience
0:13:18.639,0:13:23.200
when we were having a baby um the exact
0:13:22.000,0:13:26.160
same thing about
0:13:23.200,0:13:27.920
trusting the hospital we didn't know
0:13:26.160,0:13:29.519
what to expect and we just thought
0:13:27.920,0:13:30.959
everything was going properly and
0:13:29.519,0:13:33.120
swimmingly and
0:13:30.959,0:13:34.000
my son and wife both got an infection
0:13:33.120,0:13:36.079
during the pregnancy
0:13:34.000,0:13:37.440
but because she'd been in labor for 72
0:13:36.079,0:13:39.839
hours
0:13:37.440,0:13:42.240
um and they hadn't tried to progress it
0:13:39.839,0:13:43.360
if they just um administered oxytocin if
0:13:42.240,0:13:46.480
we'd known at the time
0:13:43.360,0:13:48.160
that if we just requested that they give
0:13:46.480,0:13:50.560
her oxytocin to move her on
0:13:48.160,0:13:52.959
she would have been fine but because
0:13:50.560,0:13:55.040
they didn't bother they just
0:13:52.959,0:13:56.720
they prolonged the whole thing and they
0:13:55.040,0:13:59.839
both ended up obviously
0:13:56.720,0:14:01.120
um with an infection my wife almost bled
0:13:59.839,0:14:02.480
out i thought we were gonna lose her at
0:14:01.120,0:14:05.760
one point
0:14:02.480,0:14:07.600
and and you just assume that it's just
0:14:05.760,0:14:09.279
complications of pregnancy but as
0:14:07.600,0:14:11.360
for looking back and having had a second
0:14:09.279,0:14:13.680
child it was more than likely
0:14:11.360,0:14:14.839
negligence and just we didn't know any
0:14:13.680,0:14:17.839
better
0:14:14.839,0:14:17.839
so
0:14:21.839,0:14:26.880
it's so so interesting for me having not
0:14:24.720,0:14:30.800
experienced these things
0:14:26.880,0:14:33.600
yet possibly ever i don't know to
0:14:30.800,0:14:35.360
to hear similar stories in some ways and
0:14:33.600,0:14:39.120
and i wanted to ask you jessica having
0:14:35.360,0:14:39.120
spoken what you've just spoken about
0:14:39.360,0:14:43.760
what when you when you think back to
0:14:41.360,0:14:44.880
that time
0:14:43.760,0:14:47.920
just gone through what you've gone
0:14:44.880,0:14:49.519
through you've given birth to
0:14:47.920,0:14:51.760
nora i think you said you said her name
0:14:49.519,0:14:54.959
was is that her name is that right
0:14:51.760,0:14:57.920
and you've you've lost lena
0:14:54.959,0:15:00.800
how does that feel to have those two
0:14:57.920,0:15:00.800
polar opposites
0:15:00.880,0:15:05.920
um it
0:15:06.480,0:15:14.320
it was weird um you know
0:15:10.079,0:15:17.440
we um nora stayed in the nicu
0:15:14.320,0:15:19.279
for three weeks almost three weeks after
0:15:17.440,0:15:23.120
that
0:15:19.279,0:15:25.360
and we would we would go up and visit
0:15:23.120,0:15:25.360
her
0:15:25.600,0:15:29.600
but they and they moved her room but it
0:15:28.000,0:15:31.440
was right next door to the room that
0:15:29.600,0:15:34.959
lena died in
0:15:31.440,0:15:38.560
um and like you have these moments
0:15:34.959,0:15:40.399
of just sheer joy because you've still
0:15:38.560,0:15:43.120
made this person
0:15:40.399,0:15:43.839
and you still look at them and see
0:15:43.120,0:15:48.320
yourself
0:15:43.839,0:15:48.320
and you see your spouse and you know
0:15:48.399,0:15:53.360
someone once explained to me that like
0:15:50.399,0:15:55.199
having children was like
0:15:53.360,0:15:58.000
having another heart that is just
0:15:55.199,0:16:00.399
walking around outside of you
0:15:58.000,0:16:01.120
and that really is you know what it is
0:16:00.399,0:16:04.000
and so
0:16:01.120,0:16:07.600
that love is just so unconditional and
0:16:04.000,0:16:11.600
so strong but then there would be these
0:16:07.600,0:16:14.639
moments of just intense waves of grief
0:16:11.600,0:16:14.639
that um
0:16:14.720,0:16:18.079
you know like it was just it was just
0:16:16.079,0:16:19.440
really hard i'm there
0:16:18.079,0:16:22.079
nora shared a room with somebody in the
0:16:19.440,0:16:25.920
nicu and that baby's mother was there
0:16:22.079,0:16:28.000
probably eight hours a day and i was
0:16:25.920,0:16:29.440
just remembering to breathe and get out
0:16:28.000,0:16:31.839
of bed and
0:16:29.440,0:16:33.360
get dressed and go up there and if i
0:16:31.839,0:16:35.920
made it an hour or two
0:16:33.360,0:16:37.759
hours you know i had to go home and it
0:16:35.920,0:16:40.560
was just i wasn't
0:16:37.759,0:16:42.160
i didn't feel like a good parent but i
0:16:40.560,0:16:44.079
mean it was just
0:16:42.160,0:16:46.000
it was but that time also wasn't a blur
0:16:44.079,0:16:50.399
like i really do remember
0:16:46.000,0:16:52.800
um just trying to exist and survive
0:16:50.399,0:16:54.240
and it was very conflicting very very
0:16:52.800,0:16:56.560
conflicting
0:16:54.240,0:16:57.440
it's interesting that you mentioned
0:16:56.560,0:16:59.600
feeling that
0:16:57.440,0:17:03.040
as you put it to existence of fat as and
0:16:59.600,0:17:06.079
survive at the same time while
0:17:03.040,0:17:08.480
looking after the newborn child your
0:17:06.079,0:17:11.520
energy must have been
0:17:08.480,0:17:14.559
everywhere at once yeah it's
0:17:11.520,0:17:15.760
um you know as as ryan knows like
0:17:14.559,0:17:19.120
newborns are not
0:17:15.760,0:17:22.000
easy um but you noticed
0:17:19.120,0:17:23.600
after yeah after mentally preparing
0:17:22.000,0:17:26.640
ourselves for two
0:17:23.600,0:17:29.760
um it didn't feel
0:17:26.640,0:17:31.360
so difficult um you know we
0:17:29.760,0:17:32.799
instead of just one of us getting up in
0:17:31.360,0:17:34.080
the middle of the night we both got up
0:17:32.799,0:17:38.080
every single time
0:17:34.080,0:17:41.919
and we were each other's support um
0:17:38.080,0:17:43.200
you know and it was just it was
0:17:41.919,0:17:44.799
i would say it was like it was just a
0:17:43.200,0:17:46.320
quiet time you know there was a lot of
0:17:44.799,0:17:48.320
reflection and there was a lot of
0:17:46.320,0:17:51.520
thinking about what we had been through
0:17:48.320,0:17:54.880
and um you know trying to
0:17:51.520,0:17:57.280
trying to be good parents to um
0:17:54.880,0:17:58.400
to a baby that really that needed us and
0:17:57.280,0:18:01.679
depended on us
0:17:58.400,0:18:04.640
and you know um my
0:18:01.679,0:18:06.799
um someone once said to me like i i
0:18:04.640,0:18:08.960
admire your strength and like
0:18:06.799,0:18:10.320
and i just like you know my mom my mom
0:18:08.960,0:18:12.080
said to me when she was like you know
0:18:10.320,0:18:13.120
i'm just so amazed that you didn't give
0:18:12.080,0:18:16.000
up and it was like
0:18:13.120,0:18:16.640
what choice did i have you know like
0:18:16.000,0:18:18.799
it's not a
0:18:16.640,0:18:20.160
it's not a choice like who what was i
0:18:18.799,0:18:21.919
gonna do just
0:18:20.160,0:18:24.240
drop her off at my mom's house and my
0:18:21.919,0:18:26.840
mom was like yeah you could have
0:18:24.240,0:18:29.840
you know other people out there would
0:18:26.840,0:18:29.840
have
0:18:40.880,0:18:45.200
um so yeah it's hard to reconcile how
0:18:44.240,0:18:48.559
you dealt with that
0:18:45.200,0:18:48.559
you're not a superhero really
0:18:50.160,0:18:53.440
yeah hundred percent was just thinking
0:18:52.000,0:18:56.799
that i really was
0:18:53.440,0:18:57.200
um thank you after what what you've just
0:18:56.799,0:19:01.120
said
0:18:57.200,0:19:01.760
um i i don't mean to come across as in
0:19:01.120,0:19:04.880
any way
0:19:01.760,0:19:07.280
insensitive but it's something that for
0:19:04.880,0:19:07.280
me is
0:19:07.520,0:19:10.960
has crossed my mind and i thought i
0:19:08.720,0:19:12.240
would ask it so i wonder if
0:19:10.960,0:19:15.039
having gone through what you've gone
0:19:12.240,0:19:16.559
through does does nora does your
0:19:15.039,0:19:18.559
your living child if that's the right
0:19:16.559,0:19:20.559
way of putting it never
0:19:18.559,0:19:21.679
set servers as a constant reminder of
0:19:20.559,0:19:23.360
what you've been through or is that
0:19:21.679,0:19:26.080
something that you're able to
0:19:23.360,0:19:27.760
not move on from but sort of separate i
0:19:26.080,0:19:30.559
wonder
0:19:27.760,0:19:31.039
um so it's a very good question actually
0:19:30.559,0:19:34.160
and
0:19:31.039,0:19:37.360
um one of the
0:19:34.160,0:19:41.600
so oddly enough my brother
0:19:37.360,0:19:43.600
um had a loss his wife went into early
0:19:41.600,0:19:47.120
labor and he lost a daughter
0:19:43.600,0:19:50.480
26 weeks um
0:19:47.120,0:19:52.559
which is you know i um he's he's
0:19:50.480,0:19:54.000
also very religious so like he dealt
0:19:52.559,0:19:57.039
with his
0:19:54.000,0:19:59.840
grief in a much different way than i did
0:19:57.039,0:20:02.240
um but you know when the the couple
0:19:59.840,0:20:05.520
conversations that we had about it
0:20:02.240,0:20:07.760
you know he said um you know he said
0:20:05.520,0:20:09.840
like you you have a constant reminder
0:20:07.760,0:20:11.280
and you will always have a constant
0:20:09.840,0:20:15.120
reminder
0:20:11.280,0:20:17.520
um and it's it to some extent it is true
0:20:15.120,0:20:18.960
i mean birth things are hard milestones
0:20:17.520,0:20:23.120
were hard
0:20:18.960,0:20:24.960
you know um for a long time when i would
0:20:23.120,0:20:28.080
get nora dressed to leave the house
0:20:24.960,0:20:31.520
and put her in a carrier um
0:20:28.080,0:20:34.000
i could think of nothing but
0:20:31.520,0:20:34.559
how i would have juggled two carriers
0:20:34.000,0:20:37.919
you know
0:20:34.559,0:20:40.960
or um when i drew a bath it would be
0:20:37.919,0:20:43.440
um i would see an empty spot in the tub
0:20:40.960,0:20:45.760
you know like there's a there's always
0:20:43.440,0:20:49.520
an empty chair at my table
0:20:45.760,0:20:51.360
um but nora brings me a lot of joy
0:20:49.520,0:20:53.520
you know she's a wonderful wonderful
0:20:51.360,0:20:54.720
child and i'm like really proud to be
0:20:53.520,0:20:57.039
her mom
0:20:54.720,0:20:57.760
so it's it's just you know it's
0:20:57.039,0:20:59.679
bittersweet
0:20:57.760,0:21:02.559
everything the obvious one for me to ask
0:20:59.679,0:21:04.720
you about was um birthdays um
0:21:02.559,0:21:06.960
just the thought of that constant
0:21:04.720,0:21:08.400
reminder on a birthday that is it's the
0:21:06.960,0:21:10.640
same day
0:21:08.400,0:21:12.080
of your loss that's the same that you're
0:21:10.640,0:21:15.679
celebrating
0:21:12.080,0:21:16.240
um and i'm not sure i would be able to
0:21:15.679,0:21:18.559
cope
0:21:16.240,0:21:20.320
um if i'm honest and i think that you're
0:21:18.559,0:21:22.000
a very strong person for
0:21:20.320,0:21:25.600
for the mindset that you're putting up
0:21:22.000,0:21:25.600
across yeah 100
0:21:26.320,0:21:31.440
well i will say that um the girls were
0:21:29.919,0:21:35.440
born on may 10th
0:21:31.440,0:21:39.039
and lena actually passed on the 11th um
0:21:35.440,0:21:41.360
so i and i one of my you know
0:21:39.039,0:21:42.559
i just thought thank god it's it's not
0:21:41.360,0:21:45.760
the same day
0:21:42.559,0:21:47.520
because you know but um we've we've kind
0:21:45.760,0:21:50.960
of decided that may 10th
0:21:47.520,0:21:54.240
is nora's day and on
0:21:50.960,0:21:56.080
you know we um we don't
0:21:54.240,0:21:58.000
it's almost too depressing to go to the
0:21:56.080,0:22:00.880
cemetery on the 10th so we always
0:21:58.000,0:22:02.159
go on the 11th and we call it lena day
0:22:00.880,0:22:07.200
and
0:22:02.159,0:22:07.200
we try to do something that
0:22:07.360,0:22:12.240
you know that we usually take the day
0:22:10.000,0:22:16.000
off and try and find an activity that's
0:22:12.240,0:22:19.039
you know comforting or reflecting or
0:22:16.000,0:22:20.880
you know something like that so it's um
0:22:19.039,0:22:22.880
you know i know a lot of people i know
0:22:20.880,0:22:25.600
some people who have had losses too
0:22:22.880,0:22:27.120
that you know they always have a cake at
0:22:25.600,0:22:27.600
the at the birthday party actually no
0:22:27.120,0:22:30.159
one can
0:22:27.600,0:22:30.960
we know one couple who um that we met
0:22:30.159,0:22:34.000
through a
0:22:30.960,0:22:36.960
lost support group who also had a twin
0:22:34.000,0:22:39.039
um pass in a much different way you know
0:22:36.960,0:22:41.200
and they would do stuff like
0:22:39.039,0:22:43.440
um you know have have cakes from at the
0:22:41.200,0:22:47.760
party and do things like that and i just
0:22:43.440,0:22:50.400
um nora knows about her sister she knows
0:22:47.760,0:22:52.159
she's missing her sister she knows that
0:22:50.400,0:22:53.760
we miss her sister
0:22:52.159,0:22:57.120
and i think that that's enough to put on
0:22:53.760,0:22:57.120
a four-year-old so
0:22:57.360,0:23:01.120
i've kind of let her have you know her
0:22:59.840,0:23:05.120
space and her days
0:23:01.120,0:23:07.360
her day that's a very an interesting
0:23:05.120,0:23:09.280
and interesting way of of looking at it
0:23:07.360,0:23:12.400
to almost separate them into
0:23:09.280,0:23:13.280
two days it seems almost seems
0:23:12.400,0:23:16.880
comforting
0:23:13.280,0:23:18.480
for someone who's just really getting to
0:23:16.880,0:23:24.240
know you and your story that
0:23:18.480,0:23:24.240
almost makes me feel a bit warmer inside
0:23:24.640,0:23:29.760
yeah i mean i don't i don't want to like
0:23:28.000,0:23:31.679
nora's she's always going to kind of
0:23:29.760,0:23:32.720
have that hanging over her and it's not
0:23:31.679,0:23:34.720
like i'm not
0:23:32.720,0:23:36.799
subconsciously thinking about both of my
0:23:34.720,0:23:39.120
girls on their birthday before
0:23:36.799,0:23:40.320
i'm not you know wishing lena happy
0:23:39.120,0:23:43.520
birthday in my head
0:23:40.320,0:23:46.640
or um you know but
0:23:43.520,0:23:49.679
outwardly like
0:23:46.640,0:23:50.000
you know i need to i mean there's not a
0:23:49.679,0:23:52.640
right
0:23:50.000,0:23:54.000
answer you know there's just there's not
0:23:52.640,0:23:55.440
there's not a right thing to do and
0:23:54.000,0:23:58.080
we've just done the best we can
0:23:55.440,0:24:00.000
it sounds like of course and i was i was
0:23:58.080,0:24:02.320
going to save this for late
0:24:00.000,0:24:03.600
it does it does it definitely does i was
0:24:02.320,0:24:06.559
going to save this for later but
0:24:03.600,0:24:08.320
just because you brought it up just now
0:24:06.559,0:24:10.720
you mentioned
0:24:08.320,0:24:12.000
nora being aware of and knowing at four
0:24:10.720,0:24:15.520
years old that
0:24:12.000,0:24:18.400
she she has a sister and how did you
0:24:15.520,0:24:18.880
arrive at the decision to to tailor was
0:24:18.400,0:24:20.799
that
0:24:18.880,0:24:22.480
an easy decision was that something that
0:24:20.799,0:24:24.720
you and your husband discuss
0:24:22.480,0:24:27.039
to did you have similarly different
0:24:24.720,0:24:30.880
opinions how did that go
0:24:27.039,0:24:34.799
um we we decided
0:24:30.880,0:24:37.200
really early on that um
0:24:34.799,0:24:39.919
we weren't going to pretend that lena
0:24:37.200,0:24:41.520
didn't exist
0:24:39.919,0:24:44.000
and we weren't going to hide it from
0:24:41.520,0:24:44.000
nora
0:24:44.960,0:24:49.200
like we both knew that um and and you
0:24:47.440,0:24:51.039
know and i'll say the other thing is
0:24:49.200,0:24:52.799
and i don't know you know i don't know
0:24:51.039,0:24:55.840
that you guys would know this but
0:24:52.799,0:24:57.039
couples that lose children um you know
0:24:55.840,0:25:00.159
have an eight like almost
0:24:57.039,0:25:03.600
something like an 80 chance of
0:25:00.159,0:25:05.360
getting divorced um just because
0:25:03.600,0:25:06.640
you know people grieve in such different
0:25:05.360,0:25:10.320
ways and it's such
0:25:06.640,0:25:13.679
a um distinctively difficult
0:25:10.320,0:25:17.600
type of loss you know it just disrupts
0:25:13.679,0:25:19.520
the natural cycle of life you know um
0:25:17.600,0:25:21.440
so you know we also made a promise to
0:25:19.520,0:25:22.400
each other that if we were thinking
0:25:21.440,0:25:24.799
about her
0:25:22.400,0:25:26.640
or if we were having you know one of
0:25:24.799,0:25:28.640
those days and said what's wrong
0:25:26.640,0:25:29.760
instead of nothing like we wouldn't say
0:25:28.640,0:25:32.400
nothing
0:25:29.760,0:25:33.919
you know we wouldn't just push it under
0:25:32.400,0:25:35.760
the rug and pretend that things were
0:25:33.919,0:25:38.799
fine because things are not fine
0:25:35.760,0:25:40.799
when that happens to you you know so
0:25:38.799,0:25:42.559
um so very early on we would take note
0:25:40.799,0:25:44.559
of the cemetery when we would go visit
0:25:42.559,0:25:45.520
and we would try to explain things and
0:25:44.559,0:25:46.559
there were some really tough
0:25:45.520,0:25:50.000
conversations
0:25:46.559,0:25:51.440
um you know she would ask if lena was
0:25:50.000,0:25:54.720
sleeping
0:25:51.440,0:25:58.080
and you know
0:25:54.720,0:25:59.919
why there was a rock on top of her and
0:25:58.080,0:26:01.600
you know how is she gonna get out if
0:25:59.919,0:26:05.120
there's a rock on top of her
0:26:01.600,0:26:06.880
and that was a lot of you know she's
0:26:05.120,0:26:09.279
she's slowly come to understand that
0:26:06.880,0:26:12.640
like no people don't come back
0:26:09.279,0:26:14.480
and lena's not just sleeping um but that
0:26:12.640,0:26:18.559
we can love her from here
0:26:14.480,0:26:21.600
and um you know we in judaism we take
0:26:18.559,0:26:24.480
rocks out to uh the cemetery
0:26:21.600,0:26:25.679
so whenever we go somewhere we'll look
0:26:24.480,0:26:28.320
for rocks to take
0:26:25.679,0:26:30.000
to lena or nora will come home with
0:26:28.320,0:26:30.960
something from school like they painted
0:26:30.000,0:26:32.720
rocks one time
0:26:30.960,0:26:34.320
and she said i made this for lena you
0:26:32.720,0:26:38.240
know and so
0:26:34.320,0:26:40.240
no we're very much open about it okay
0:26:38.240,0:26:41.760
i fascinate against it ryan i know
0:26:40.240,0:26:42.559
you're on ever so slight delay so i want
0:26:41.760,0:26:44.240
to give you
0:26:42.559,0:26:46.480
a little bit of chance to to react
0:26:44.240,0:26:49.200
before um yeah loads to say
0:26:46.480,0:26:49.760
um i've always got less to say that's my
0:26:49.200,0:26:52.000
problem
0:26:49.760,0:26:53.679
maybe the internet connection it's good
0:26:52.000,0:26:54.960
it's making me listen instead of talking
0:26:53.679,0:26:58.080
too much
0:26:54.960,0:27:01.440
um no but i just think
0:26:58.080,0:27:04.880
yeah yes you guys um
0:27:01.440,0:27:06.080
i've done an amazing job honestly i've
0:27:04.880,0:27:08.799
got two i've got two kids
0:27:06.080,0:27:10.240
and i don't know how i would i it
0:27:08.799,0:27:13.679
doesn't even be a thinking of
0:27:10.240,0:27:15.520
like that kind of loss um we have had
0:27:13.679,0:27:18.000
that loss in the family uh
0:27:15.520,0:27:20.240
my mom i was had a very late pregnancy
0:27:18.000,0:27:21.919
with a new husband
0:27:20.240,0:27:24.399
and she had complications and ended up
0:27:21.919,0:27:26.640
with a stillbirth so
0:27:24.399,0:27:28.960
um the difficulty for her was she never
0:27:26.640,0:27:30.880
ever got
0:27:28.960,0:27:32.640
a birth certificate or anything because
0:27:30.880,0:27:33.120
they deemed that she hadn't taken a
0:27:32.640,0:27:35.440
breath
0:27:33.120,0:27:36.880
so therefore she never existed and my
0:27:35.440,0:27:40.000
mum couldn't cope with that
0:27:36.880,0:27:44.559
in the slightest so i've seen it from
0:27:40.000,0:27:44.559
outside but not experienced
0:27:46.720,0:27:50.640
just seeing how strong you have been as
0:27:48.720,0:27:53.279
a as a family and
0:27:50.640,0:27:55.360
listening to your your daughter um
0:27:53.279,0:27:57.279
trying to reconcile that whole thing is
0:27:55.360,0:27:59.440
it's really empowering it's really kind
0:27:57.279,0:28:03.840
of wonderful to be honest
0:27:59.440,0:28:03.840
and just how great you've handled it and
0:28:04.720,0:28:10.320
um yeah yeah
0:28:08.320,0:28:12.240
and just to add as well my own
0:28:10.320,0:28:14.799
experience um
0:28:12.240,0:28:16.000
i had an aunt i remember probably in my
0:28:14.799,0:28:18.559
my youth maybe as a
0:28:16.000,0:28:20.480
young teenager my aunt went through a
0:28:18.559,0:28:20.880
similar thing to what you just said ryan
0:28:20.480,0:28:21.919
so
0:28:20.880,0:28:24.240
going back to what you said earlier
0:28:21.919,0:28:25.279
jessica about how how common it actually
0:28:24.240,0:28:26.799
is and
0:28:25.279,0:28:28.480
perhaps you listening as well maybe can
0:28:26.799,0:28:29.279
relate you may be yourself or know
0:28:28.480,0:28:31.039
someone and
0:28:29.279,0:28:33.120
it does seem to be something that so
0:28:31.039,0:28:36.320
many people go through so it's great
0:28:33.120,0:28:36.320
to have the conversation as well
0:28:36.720,0:28:40.640
let's take a short break if you don't
0:28:37.919,0:28:44.159
mind just for a minute or two um
0:28:40.640,0:28:46.080
no perfect you recording mine
0:28:44.159,0:28:48.720
i am yes thank you and it's nice to be
0:28:46.080,0:28:50.960
with you this time instead of like
0:28:48.720,0:28:52.799
crazy satellite delay definitely yes i
0:28:50.960,0:28:54.159
know it truly is like a zoom call that
0:28:52.799,0:28:55.679
way it was really hard for me because i
0:28:54.159,0:28:58.080
was like i can't interrupt
0:28:55.679,0:28:59.600
no no no no i was saying that during the
0:28:58.080,0:29:01.360
break as well jessica was like ryan
0:28:59.600,0:29:02.399
often has so much to say it's great to
0:29:01.360,0:29:05.200
have him and
0:29:02.399,0:29:05.919
i was so cautious of of seeing too much
0:29:05.200,0:29:07.600
and
0:29:05.919,0:29:10.799
we're good we have a whole another
0:29:07.600,0:29:10.799
segment now so i don't
0:29:10.840,0:29:14.320
know
0:29:12.720,0:29:15.760
the tone of this segment is going to be
0:29:14.320,0:29:16.559
a lot different just because i can
0:29:15.760,0:29:17.919
actually react
0:29:16.559,0:29:20.399
i think i'll just mute myself i'll just
0:29:17.919,0:29:22.559
go let you guys just just be a two-man
0:29:20.399,0:29:25.200
show
0:29:22.559,0:29:26.240
all right uh so jessica we've spoken a
0:29:25.200,0:29:28.480
lot about
0:29:26.240,0:29:29.279
your journey up to this point and you've
0:29:28.480,0:29:32.080
shared with us
0:29:29.279,0:29:33.120
such amazing insight into how you've
0:29:32.080,0:29:36.240
coped with
0:29:33.120,0:29:39.120
with unthinkable circumstances we
0:29:36.240,0:29:40.159
our idea for this podcast came about to
0:29:39.120,0:29:42.240
try and talk about
0:29:40.159,0:29:43.679
the the thoughts and the feelings the
0:29:42.240,0:29:46.159
emotions that go along with having kids
0:29:43.679,0:29:49.039
and we met online through reddit
0:29:46.159,0:29:49.520
where you were talking about potentially
0:29:49.039,0:29:52.320
having
0:29:49.520,0:29:54.799
another child so i want to sort of delve
0:29:52.320,0:29:58.880
into that if you will um
0:29:54.799,0:30:02.240
firstly do you feel that you
0:29:58.880,0:30:05.440
needs or need i guess four years
0:30:02.240,0:30:07.279
to between your loss and your first
0:30:05.440,0:30:08.399
birth to get this point or was that
0:30:07.279,0:30:11.200
something that
0:30:08.399,0:30:12.559
would happen for a different reason or
0:30:11.200,0:30:16.559
um
0:30:12.559,0:30:19.600
yeah i mean short answer yes um
0:30:16.559,0:30:23.600
about six months after
0:30:19.600,0:30:26.320
um the girls were born and i lost lena
0:30:23.600,0:30:28.320
um i did get pregnant again and um i
0:30:26.320,0:30:31.200
actually i miscarried
0:30:28.320,0:30:32.240
here's the interesting thing my
0:30:31.200,0:30:36.880
headspace
0:30:32.240,0:30:39.120
was really um i can fix this
0:30:36.880,0:30:40.240
right like i can fix this if i can just
0:30:39.120,0:30:43.840
have another one
0:30:40.240,0:30:47.120
i was supposed to have two i need two
0:30:43.840,0:30:48.480
like that's what's wrong um you know and
0:30:47.120,0:30:49.919
i just think there was a lot of things
0:30:48.480,0:30:51.440
going on there i don't think my body was
0:30:49.919,0:30:53.760
ready to be pregnant again
0:30:51.440,0:30:54.559
i it had been through trauma you know
0:30:53.760,0:30:58.000
and
0:30:54.559,0:30:59.600
um so i think
0:30:58.000,0:31:01.120
after that i was just like you know i
0:30:59.600,0:31:03.200
need a break i need to heal
0:31:01.120,0:31:04.799
i need to raise my daughter and then
0:31:03.200,0:31:06.720
yeah so it took
0:31:04.799,0:31:08.399
it took three and a half four years to
0:31:06.720,0:31:11.519
get to a point now where
0:31:08.399,0:31:13.679
we've kind of said to each other like
0:31:11.519,0:31:15.679
i think this is you know this feels
0:31:13.679,0:31:18.240
right now
0:31:15.679,0:31:19.919
so did that time arrive at the same time
0:31:18.240,0:31:22.159
for both of you or do you feel one of
0:31:19.919,0:31:25.360
you was ready before the other
0:31:22.159,0:31:27.600
um i think we were
0:31:25.360,0:31:29.360
on pretty similar timelines there was
0:31:27.600,0:31:32.480
definitely a
0:31:29.360,0:31:34.720
big period in there where we said
0:31:32.480,0:31:34.720
um
0:31:35.519,0:31:42.960
that we were done just because
0:31:39.200,0:31:42.960
i didn't think that i could
0:31:43.279,0:31:46.320
i didn't think that i had the mental
0:31:45.440,0:31:49.919
capacity
0:31:46.320,0:31:53.200
to go through all of that again um
0:31:49.919,0:31:55.360
that's understandable though yeah right
0:31:53.200,0:31:57.120
because it's a lot even when nothing bad
0:31:55.360,0:32:00.080
happens i mean
0:31:57.120,0:32:00.799
you know it's it's just it's a lot of
0:32:00.080,0:32:02.640
stress
0:32:00.799,0:32:04.080
and it's stress on you and stress on
0:32:02.640,0:32:07.200
your body and on your family
0:32:04.080,0:32:10.240
and um you know it was
0:32:07.200,0:32:12.240
it was always a fight i think because
0:32:10.240,0:32:14.399
um the thought of nora being alone when
0:32:12.240,0:32:17.519
she was never supposed to be alone
0:32:14.399,0:32:19.200
you know was really weighing on me
0:32:17.519,0:32:20.799
but then i would think but that's not a
0:32:19.200,0:32:23.760
reason to have a kid
0:32:20.799,0:32:25.279
you know or it would be the you know i
0:32:23.760,0:32:25.919
need another one because i was supposed
0:32:25.279,0:32:29.519
to have two
0:32:25.919,0:32:31.440
that's not a reason to have a kid um
0:32:29.519,0:32:33.440
so i think it kind of it was an
0:32:31.440,0:32:36.240
evolution of
0:32:33.440,0:32:38.080
um feeling like feeling out what the
0:32:36.240,0:32:42.080
wrong reasons were
0:32:38.080,0:32:42.080
until i came up with the right reasons
0:32:46.480,0:32:51.279
um i think i i think i kind of realized
0:32:50.320,0:32:53.440
that like
0:32:51.279,0:32:55.760
i have love in my heart for another
0:32:53.440,0:32:58.240
child that i haven't met yet
0:32:55.760,0:32:59.600
you know like um i'm always like having
0:32:58.240,0:33:01.039
another child doesn't mean i'm gonna
0:32:59.600,0:33:03.360
forget lena
0:33:01.039,0:33:04.880
and it doesn't mean i've moved on like
0:33:03.360,0:33:08.399
it doesn't have to mean that
0:33:04.880,0:33:10.720
you know um but just that
0:33:08.399,0:33:12.000
if i have another child i want that
0:33:10.720,0:33:13.760
child for that child
0:33:12.000,0:33:15.279
and not because i'm missing something
0:33:13.760,0:33:17.360
else in my life
0:33:15.279,0:33:18.880
yeah i think um that would have been
0:33:17.360,0:33:21.200
something that would wear my mind
0:33:18.880,0:33:22.799
and obviously you your mindset seems way
0:33:21.200,0:33:24.240
more positive than mine would be in the
0:33:22.799,0:33:27.039
same situation
0:33:24.240,0:33:28.240
um but i would always be second guessing
0:33:27.039,0:33:30.720
myself wondering
0:33:28.240,0:33:32.960
whether or not i was trying to replace
0:33:30.720,0:33:36.080
like a space or that that
0:33:32.960,0:33:38.159
person or um for that reason
0:33:36.080,0:33:39.360
and i i assume you've been through that
0:33:38.159,0:33:42.799
thought process yourself
0:33:39.360,0:33:43.919
but um i don't know
0:33:42.799,0:33:45.279
again i think you're a bit of a
0:33:43.919,0:33:46.240
superhero because i don't know if i
0:33:45.279,0:33:48.960
could go
0:33:46.240,0:33:49.279
through the same thought process well
0:33:48.960,0:33:51.039
but
0:33:49.279,0:33:52.320
you already have because you know that's
0:33:51.039,0:33:53.679
what you're saying and
0:33:52.320,0:33:55.840
those are the same you know it's the
0:33:53.679,0:33:57.200
same thought process i have i had and
0:33:55.840,0:33:58.480
like part of the reason that we waited
0:33:57.200,0:34:00.080
is because
0:33:58.480,0:34:02.559
we didn't want to bring a child into the
0:34:00.080,0:34:04.080
world as a replacement for someone else
0:34:02.559,0:34:06.000
yeah you know because that's not fair to
0:34:04.080,0:34:08.000
them yeah it's understandable
0:34:06.000,0:34:10.240
but some people might not be might not
0:34:08.000,0:34:12.000
have been as self-aware and have
0:34:10.240,0:34:14.480
made that same choice they might have
0:34:12.000,0:34:15.679
just gone straight into it without a lot
0:34:14.480,0:34:18.800
of thought you know
0:34:15.679,0:34:20.720
and i think that again just
0:34:18.800,0:34:22.240
shows the power of the strength in you
0:34:20.720,0:34:25.200
that you have waited
0:34:22.240,0:34:25.599
i mean four years is arguably not a long
0:34:25.200,0:34:28.720
time
0:34:25.599,0:34:29.760
a gap between like two children for
0:34:28.720,0:34:32.079
example
0:34:29.760,0:34:33.520
and some people wait a lot longer before
0:34:32.079,0:34:37.280
they have another child
0:34:33.520,0:34:40.399
so they chose i think your resolve and
0:34:37.280,0:34:42.800
your strength as well as a family that
0:34:40.399,0:34:44.800
after such what you could call a short
0:34:42.800,0:34:46.960
time four years
0:34:44.800,0:34:48.159
that you're ready to to be in that
0:34:46.960,0:34:50.560
headspace again again
0:34:48.159,0:34:52.399
it just kind of you're an impressive
0:34:50.560,0:34:52.960
person that's that's my point of view
0:34:52.399,0:34:55.919
anyway
0:34:52.960,0:34:56.560
thank you i want to take you back to
0:34:55.919,0:34:58.560
something
0:34:56.560,0:34:59.920
that you said just a moment ago jessica
0:34:58.560,0:35:01.440
that stuck with me so much that i've
0:34:59.920,0:35:02.800
written it down so i can read out what i
0:35:01.440,0:35:05.760
think is verbatim
0:35:02.800,0:35:06.640
um and it almost comes back to the crux
0:35:05.760,0:35:09.599
of
0:35:06.640,0:35:10.320
why we want to do this podcast or
0:35:09.599,0:35:12.560
certainly
0:35:10.320,0:35:14.160
why i want to do this season and you
0:35:12.560,0:35:17.119
spoke about having
0:35:14.160,0:35:18.720
i think word for word space in your
0:35:17.119,0:35:21.599
heart space in my heart um
0:35:18.720,0:35:25.280
for another child is what you said and i
0:35:21.599,0:35:27.359
think that struck me so much because
0:35:25.280,0:35:30.320
i'm in the place right now as i said
0:35:27.359,0:35:33.520
earlier not that far off 30
0:35:30.320,0:35:35.680
and i don't
0:35:33.520,0:35:37.440
know what i want to do i don't know
0:35:35.680,0:35:41.200
where i want to go and
0:35:37.440,0:35:42.800
i mentioned to you before um i teach i
0:35:41.200,0:35:45.520
teach in secondary school and
0:35:42.800,0:35:46.400
that takes up a huge amount of my life
0:35:45.520,0:35:48.800
and my energy
0:35:46.400,0:35:50.320
in a good way you know what i have so
0:35:48.800,0:35:52.880
much passion for what i do and
0:35:50.320,0:35:54.720
i work with children young people five
0:35:52.880,0:35:58.720
days a week
0:35:54.720,0:36:01.599
and i don't know i'm conflicted
0:35:58.720,0:36:03.599
i feel like i do have the space and then
0:36:01.599,0:36:05.599
i feel like i don't have the space and
0:36:03.599,0:36:06.640
i just kind of want to delve into to
0:36:05.599,0:36:09.760
your
0:36:06.640,0:36:11.920
how you arrived at that that's um
0:36:09.760,0:36:13.839
you know but here's the thing is that
0:36:11.920,0:36:17.359
you will have space
0:36:13.839,0:36:19.440
no really i mean it it um they say that
0:36:17.359,0:36:21.440
you know like women become mothers like
0:36:19.440,0:36:22.960
as soon as they become pregnant like it
0:36:21.440,0:36:26.000
just is inherent
0:36:22.960,0:36:27.280
and fathers become fathers when they see
0:36:26.000,0:36:29.520
that kid for the first time and it
0:36:27.280,0:36:32.480
becomes very very real
0:36:29.520,0:36:32.880
um and my husband is one of these guys
0:36:32.480,0:36:36.079
that
0:36:32.880,0:36:38.160
just he's like a deer in the headlights
0:36:36.079,0:36:39.920
it takes him so long to like get used to
0:36:38.160,0:36:41.280
an idea we just bought a new car and he
0:36:39.920,0:36:42.800
was just like
0:36:41.280,0:36:45.119
i mean he wouldn't almost talk to me for
0:36:42.800,0:36:46.960
a week because he was so
0:36:45.119,0:36:48.480
like terrified at the amount of money
0:36:46.960,0:36:51.200
that we just spent you know
0:36:48.480,0:36:53.599
and like now he loves it he just zoom
0:36:51.200,0:36:56.640
zooms around town and like you know but
0:36:53.599,0:36:58.480
it took him a while and um
0:36:56.640,0:36:59.760
so you know he was when he found out
0:36:58.480,0:37:01.280
we're having twins and everything i mean
0:36:59.760,0:37:02.880
it was just like
0:37:01.280,0:37:04.640
i just kept i mean i'd look at him all
0:37:02.880,0:37:08.640
the time and be like is this okay
0:37:04.640,0:37:11.760
like what was he gonna do about it yeah
0:37:08.640,0:37:12.880
you know too late now but um you know
0:37:11.760,0:37:16.320
like are you okay like
0:37:12.880,0:37:19.599
you know is this is this okay um
0:37:16.320,0:37:22.880
but you know like may 10 2016
0:37:19.599,0:37:24.560
like his whole world changed and whether
0:37:22.880,0:37:28.079
he wasn't sure that there was room
0:37:24.560,0:37:30.160
or you know it his heart was made
0:37:28.079,0:37:31.680
he had no choice you just fall in love
0:37:30.160,0:37:34.079
you know and
0:37:31.680,0:37:35.440
um i'm not gonna lie you know you give
0:37:34.079,0:37:36.240
up certain things when you become a
0:37:35.440,0:37:39.119
parent
0:37:36.240,0:37:40.720
um you give up certain freedoms um my
0:37:39.119,0:37:42.880
favorite is people who have
0:37:40.720,0:37:45.119
you know pets and dogs oh this is my
0:37:42.880,0:37:46.720
furry baby you know my furry animal is
0:37:45.119,0:37:50.720
like no idea like no
0:37:46.720,0:37:52.400
no say thank you thank you i've got cats
0:37:50.720,0:37:53.760
it's not the same thing i can put some
0:37:52.400,0:37:55.440
food down and walk out
0:37:53.760,0:37:57.280
and not see that for a couple of days
0:37:55.440,0:37:58.560
you know i can't do that with my kids it
0:37:57.280,0:38:00.800
would be friendly right
0:37:58.560,0:38:02.480
right legal when it's legal for me to
0:38:00.800,0:38:05.520
kennel my child
0:38:02.480,0:38:08.800
and just like yeah exactly then let's
0:38:05.520,0:38:10.480
talk you know it's just um
0:38:08.800,0:38:11.839
so yeah like things are things are more
0:38:10.480,0:38:13.359
difficult and that was definitely
0:38:11.839,0:38:16.480
something that we thought about
0:38:13.359,0:38:18.400
um you know america is probably
0:38:16.480,0:38:19.599
probably one of the worst countries that
0:38:18.400,0:38:23.119
you can become a parent
0:38:19.599,0:38:26.000
in you know um parental leave is a joke
0:38:23.119,0:38:26.720
you know um daycare is ridiculously
0:38:26.000,0:38:29.359
expensive
0:38:26.720,0:38:30.720
because there's no parental leave um it
0:38:29.359,0:38:33.920
it definitely
0:38:30.720,0:38:37.280
makes life a lot harder
0:38:33.920,0:38:38.640
um but it's worth it we're
0:38:37.280,0:38:41.920
a little bit better off over here
0:38:38.640,0:38:45.040
because we do have um
0:38:41.920,0:38:47.359
parental leave but um we get it as well
0:38:45.040,0:38:48.079
like we i could take time off i could
0:38:47.359,0:38:50.560
share it yeah
0:38:48.079,0:38:51.359
i could share it i did for my from my
0:38:50.560,0:38:54.079
firstborn
0:38:51.359,0:38:55.839
um i shared it with my wife um she had
0:38:54.079,0:38:57.440
already said that she was going back to
0:38:55.839,0:38:57.920
work and she was only going to take half
0:38:57.440,0:39:00.000
the
0:38:57.920,0:39:01.920
the time period so i stayed over the
0:39:00.000,0:39:04.880
other half of the time period with
0:39:01.920,0:39:05.280
my son and then i was amazing being just
0:39:04.880,0:39:07.440
that
0:39:05.280,0:39:08.320
i didn't go back to work i became the
0:39:07.440,0:39:10.160
parental i
0:39:08.320,0:39:11.680
became the main caregiver in the house
0:39:10.160,0:39:13.520
oh my husband would love it he says
0:39:11.680,0:39:16.800
that's his dream
0:39:13.520,0:39:20.079
right it has his moments
0:39:16.800,0:39:23.119
um what i would want to say to
0:39:20.079,0:39:24.880
to paul is um you've got space in your
0:39:23.119,0:39:28.720
heart but maybe not space in
0:39:24.880,0:39:31.839
your um your professional life yet
0:39:28.720,0:39:33.599
you've not made that headspace you've um
0:39:31.839,0:39:35.200
you've clearly obviously thinking about
0:39:33.599,0:39:36.880
it so the space is in your heart but i
0:39:35.200,0:39:38.960
would say that it's probably
0:39:36.880,0:39:40.320
the logistic stuff that's not falling in
0:39:38.960,0:39:42.320
place for you yet
0:39:40.320,0:39:43.680
um i will say this so when it happens
0:39:42.320,0:39:46.000
you have no choice you just get ready
0:39:43.680,0:39:47.760
well
0:39:46.000,0:39:49.760
yeah i've been i've been told i've seen
0:39:47.760,0:39:53.280
it firsthand
0:39:49.760,0:39:55.440
jessica i delving really deep here
0:39:53.280,0:39:56.640
and a really philosophical question for
0:39:55.440,0:39:59.839
you but
0:39:56.640,0:40:04.160
how how did you both
0:39:59.839,0:40:08.079
your husband yourself know
0:40:04.160,0:40:10.000
now or around about now that yeah
0:40:08.079,0:40:12.000
this is what we want to do are we pretty
0:40:10.000,0:40:15.760
sure this is what we want to do
0:40:12.000,0:40:15.760
have another child um
0:40:17.520,0:40:20.640
you want an honest answer yeah go on
0:40:19.760,0:40:22.079
please yeah
0:40:20.640,0:40:24.640
yeah you're not sure is that the
0:40:22.079,0:40:26.079
honestly no well no well that's
0:40:24.640,0:40:27.920
i mean that's that's a good point like
0:40:26.079,0:40:29.280
you're never really sure and that's
0:40:27.920,0:40:31.440
really what it comes down to
0:40:29.280,0:40:32.480
is um you know you can do all the
0:40:31.440,0:40:34.560
financial planning
0:40:32.480,0:40:36.400
all the bucket you know bucket list
0:40:34.560,0:40:37.599
travel you can do all of that and still
0:40:36.400,0:40:40.880
not be ready
0:40:37.599,0:40:41.839
and it's kind of a um get ready to bleep
0:40:40.880,0:40:44.000
again but it's a
0:40:41.839,0:40:45.839
get off the pot situation like you
0:40:44.000,0:40:48.560
either do it or you don't
0:40:45.839,0:40:50.000
you know um because i think if you think
0:40:48.560,0:40:52.560
too much about it
0:40:50.000,0:40:54.319
you won't do it you know now now all i'm
0:40:52.560,0:40:56.800
thinking about is the movie clerks
0:40:54.319,0:40:58.319
that's where you've through my headspace
0:40:56.800,0:41:02.560
yeah it's just gone over my head
0:40:58.319,0:41:04.240
yeah um but also like some truth here is
0:41:02.560,0:41:05.280
that my husband is seven years older
0:41:04.240,0:41:09.680
than me
0:41:05.280,0:41:13.520
um so he's 41. um
0:41:09.680,0:41:16.400
and um as my doctor so lovingly
0:41:13.520,0:41:18.480
reminded me i am not 21 anymore thanks
0:41:16.400,0:41:22.079
for that
0:41:18.480,0:41:24.160
um yes i really appreciated that
0:41:22.079,0:41:25.119
and so it kind of became one of those
0:41:24.160,0:41:28.160
things where
0:41:25.119,0:41:29.839
um you know uh
0:41:28.160,0:41:32.000
if we're gonna do it let's just do it
0:41:29.839,0:41:36.960
because we're not getting any younger
0:41:32.000,0:41:40.800
and um i mean if we're you know like
0:41:36.960,0:41:41.440
why not so so yeah i mean it's a little
0:41:40.800,0:41:46.000
bit of
0:41:41.440,0:41:48.240
um just reality kind of sets in
0:41:46.000,0:41:49.839
because i probably you know you say i'm
0:41:48.240,0:41:51.359
a superhero but like honestly i probably
0:41:49.839,0:41:56.000
could have waited 10 years
0:41:51.359,0:41:58.079
and still like been wondering
0:41:56.000,0:41:59.440
yeah like i'm always gonna wonder if i'm
0:41:58.079,0:42:01.040
ready like
0:41:59.440,0:42:02.800
it's that doesn't part of it just
0:42:01.040,0:42:06.079
doesn't really go away
0:42:02.800,0:42:08.000
um you just have to decide i mean
0:42:06.079,0:42:09.359
there's a moment there's there's there
0:42:08.000,0:42:10.880
was a moment you know
0:42:09.359,0:42:12.960
after you take the test it comes back
0:42:10.880,0:42:16.800
positive that i was just like what
0:42:12.960,0:42:19.359
did i do what did i do
0:42:16.800,0:42:21.280
you know and there are still some times
0:42:19.359,0:42:24.319
when nora is having a tantrum
0:42:21.280,0:42:26.640
or um you know
0:42:24.319,0:42:28.720
just is being a monster and i'm like
0:42:26.640,0:42:32.319
what did i do
0:42:28.720,0:42:32.319
why do i want to do this again
0:42:32.640,0:42:36.640
it's interesting you say you shouldn't
0:42:35.359,0:42:38.400
overthink it
0:42:36.640,0:42:40.319
because now i'm sort of wondering
0:42:38.400,0:42:42.050
whether making a podcast about it was
0:42:40.319,0:42:45.940
the best idea or not but anyway too late
0:42:42.050,0:42:45.940
[Laughter]
0:42:50.400,0:42:54.160
but it's not it's not too late to just
0:42:52.400,0:42:56.160
throw caution into the wind i mean
0:42:54.160,0:42:57.359
you know how it works you just gotta do
0:42:56.160,0:43:01.359
it
0:42:57.359,0:43:03.920
how does that work jessica oh to me
0:43:01.359,0:43:05.680
get my bleeper button where did i put it
0:43:03.920,0:43:07.500
let's talk about all the other things
0:43:05.680,0:43:10.319
that americans are bad about teaching
0:43:07.500,0:43:12.319
[Laughter]
0:43:10.319,0:43:13.760
does does not know i don't think that's
0:43:12.319,0:43:15.119
just america
0:43:13.760,0:43:17.440
yeah that's a good point that's a good
0:43:15.119,0:43:19.119
point does nora know that this is
0:43:17.440,0:43:20.880
on your mind or is that a conversation
0:43:19.119,0:43:24.839
that that's not come up yet or is it
0:43:20.880,0:43:27.599
going to come up um
0:43:24.839,0:43:30.800
it it will she doesn't know
0:43:27.599,0:43:34.240
um that this is kind of what we want now
0:43:30.800,0:43:36.720
um nobody knows except for you guys
0:43:34.240,0:43:37.359
wow and the internet let's not let's not
0:43:36.720,0:43:41.520
put the same
0:43:37.359,0:43:43.920
really early oh it's fine i mean
0:43:41.520,0:43:44.640
you know the thing is is that um we
0:43:43.920,0:43:46.000
don't want to get
0:43:44.640,0:43:47.680
we don't want to get our hopes up we
0:43:46.000,0:43:48.319
don't want to get anybody else's hopes
0:43:47.680,0:43:51.200
up
0:43:48.319,0:43:52.960
um you know nor like some of the things
0:43:51.200,0:43:56.400
that i've heard nora say
0:43:52.960,0:43:57.359
um i just don't wanna i don't wanna
0:43:56.400,0:44:00.079
disappoint
0:43:57.359,0:44:01.680
you know so i think even if even if we
0:44:00.079,0:44:04.560
do get pregnant and
0:44:01.680,0:44:05.520
um i probably won't tell her for a while
0:44:04.560,0:44:09.839
until i feel
0:44:05.520,0:44:13.280
good about things you know um
0:44:09.839,0:44:17.200
but uh she'll be so excited
0:44:13.280,0:44:20.839
she is a like she loves to baby things
0:44:17.200,0:44:23.839
she pretends to do all the mommy stuff
0:44:20.839,0:44:23.839
so
0:44:28.880,0:44:32.560
we've got a boy and a girl and they're
0:44:30.480,0:44:33.920
completely different and he could not
0:44:32.560,0:44:36.960
care less about
0:44:33.920,0:44:37.440
animals and people off up there he's
0:44:36.960,0:44:41.040
more like
0:44:37.440,0:44:43.520
can i play pokemon just just like
0:44:41.040,0:44:43.520
that then
0:44:44.880,0:44:49.119
come on you're learning too many of my
0:44:47.760,0:44:50.560
secrets
0:44:49.119,0:44:52.560
we like dressed nora in like gender
0:44:50.560,0:44:53.280
neutral clothes and gave her like toy
0:44:52.560,0:44:55.359
hammers
0:44:53.280,0:44:58.319
and like she was just like princesses
0:44:55.359,0:45:01.040
and pink and dresses
0:44:58.319,0:45:03.119
like how did i make that we did not push
0:45:01.040,0:45:05.119
any gender roles on either of our kids
0:45:03.119,0:45:06.560
and other people we did get a bit
0:45:05.119,0:45:07.920
outside influence on that where it's
0:45:06.560,0:45:10.240
like grandparents would be like
0:45:07.920,0:45:12.319
you have to wear this yes no you're not
0:45:10.240,0:45:16.000
allowed to wear a dress jackson
0:45:12.319,0:45:18.560
yeah you're not allowed um
0:45:16.000,0:45:19.520
let them wear two two whatever yes as
0:45:18.560,0:45:22.079
long as he's happy
0:45:19.520,0:45:23.680
um so we have never ever pushed any
0:45:22.079,0:45:24.400
gender roles on any of our kids but they
0:45:23.680,0:45:26.319
have fallen
0:45:24.400,0:45:27.839
quite happily into the boy who plays
0:45:26.319,0:45:29.520
with these guys
0:45:27.839,0:45:31.359
and the girl who's got the princesses in
0:45:29.520,0:45:32.319
the castle and we have not pushed that
0:45:31.359,0:45:34.480
in any way
0:45:32.319,0:45:36.079
it's an interesting study into nature
0:45:34.480,0:45:38.640
versus nurture
0:45:36.079,0:45:39.359
yeah yeah definitely an interesting
0:45:38.640,0:45:40.720
study because
0:45:39.359,0:45:42.960
i thought we were doing a good job of
0:45:40.720,0:45:44.720
not influencing that and
0:45:42.960,0:45:46.400
it's just happening why do i feel a good
0:45:44.720,0:45:49.119
idea for a podcast season coming on let
0:45:46.400,0:45:49.119
me just write that down
0:45:49.680,0:45:52.800
i mean it's so true it's so true i mean
0:45:52.079,0:45:54.640
nora will say
0:45:52.800,0:45:57.040
stuff like boys can't have long hair and
0:45:54.640,0:46:00.240
i'm like yes they can
0:45:57.040,0:46:02.160
girls can have short hair boys and she
0:46:00.240,0:46:03.760
has a good friend at school
0:46:02.160,0:46:05.520
who like dressed up as elsa for
0:46:03.760,0:46:06.400
halloween a little boy like dressed up
0:46:05.520,0:46:08.319
like elsa
0:46:06.400,0:46:09.839
and i just love that i have friends who
0:46:08.319,0:46:12.880
like we're strong enough
0:46:09.839,0:46:14.960
definitely yeah like they're so
0:46:12.880,0:46:16.319
supportive of like their kids no matter
0:46:14.960,0:46:17.440
their age they're just like this is who
0:46:16.319,0:46:21.599
they are and that's fine
0:46:17.440,0:46:24.960
you know yeah jessica do you
0:46:21.599,0:46:28.400
do you have any fears going forward um
0:46:24.960,0:46:31.520
about possibly having another child
0:46:28.400,0:46:31.520
yeah then i'll regret it
0:46:32.800,0:46:37.599
you just put my mind at ease and now
0:46:34.720,0:46:39.440
it's going mad again
0:46:37.599,0:46:42.640
here's the thing here's here's what
0:46:39.440,0:46:46.480
really kind of put me at the um
0:46:42.640,0:46:49.760
at the starting line of number three
0:46:46.480,0:46:53.599
i guess technically is um
0:46:49.760,0:46:57.280
you know i have moments
0:46:53.599,0:46:59.920
all the time with nora that i think
0:46:57.280,0:47:01.680
why did i do this you know i don't have
0:46:59.920,0:47:02.480
i mean i don't have the freedom that i
0:47:01.680,0:47:05.599
used to have
0:47:02.480,0:47:08.720
life is more expensive it's harder
0:47:05.599,0:47:11.599
but it's fuller and i love
0:47:08.720,0:47:13.200
her so much and she's just such a joy
0:47:11.599,0:47:16.160
and she's a wonderful
0:47:13.200,0:47:19.359
wonderful human being and i just get so
0:47:16.160,0:47:22.400
excited about the prospect of like
0:47:19.359,0:47:24.240
watching her grow and nurturing whoever
0:47:22.400,0:47:27.839
it is that she's going to be and i
0:47:24.240,0:47:30.480
and i just i think about um
0:47:27.839,0:47:32.079
you know that i could do that again and
0:47:30.480,0:47:32.480
and i'm going to have those regrets
0:47:32.079,0:47:34.319
again
0:47:32.480,0:47:36.480
i'm going to have tantrums in the middle
0:47:34.319,0:47:39.680
of the supermarket where
0:47:36.480,0:47:41.920
are your children
0:47:39.680,0:47:44.000
yeah where i'm just like i could have
0:47:41.920,0:47:45.200
had i could have had a different life
0:47:44.000,0:47:49.280
you know but
0:47:45.200,0:47:52.319
um i'll never that's the thing
0:47:49.280,0:47:54.079
but i'll never regret doing it
0:47:52.319,0:47:56.160
you know like i'll never regret that
0:47:54.079,0:47:58.079
child like i there's always going to be
0:47:56.160,0:47:59.520
regrets but i would regret it more if i
0:47:58.079,0:48:01.839
didn't do it
0:47:59.520,0:48:04.160
you know i would always look back and i
0:48:01.839,0:48:07.520
think i think i would be a little
0:48:04.160,0:48:08.640
bit more empty and i think that's where
0:48:07.520,0:48:11.440
i'm at is that
0:48:08.640,0:48:12.240
um yeah i'm gonna i'm gonna have regrets
0:48:11.440,0:48:14.640
i mean
0:48:12.240,0:48:16.000
yeah it's gonna happen um but i'd have
0:48:14.640,0:48:18.880
more if i didn't
0:48:16.000,0:48:20.160
yeah so i've kept the scales in this in
0:48:18.880,0:48:24.319
favor of
0:48:20.160,0:48:24.800
yeah yeah simple as that really yeah
0:48:24.319,0:48:26.319
yeah
0:48:24.800,0:48:28.640
that that makes sense in my head i can
0:48:26.319,0:48:30.720
see the scales that you know
0:48:28.640,0:48:32.480
that yeah that works for me it does
0:48:30.720,0:48:35.839
listed the pros and cons quite clearly
0:48:32.480,0:48:37.760
there and yeah yes yeah and
0:48:35.839,0:48:39.520
the thing is that's very personal to you
0:48:37.760,0:48:39.839
because other people even listening to
0:48:39.520,0:48:42.000
this
0:48:39.839,0:48:43.839
or in different stages of their lives
0:48:42.000,0:48:47.040
will have a different set of priorities
0:48:43.839,0:48:48.880
and a different scale to to use and
0:48:47.040,0:48:50.480
different things on each side you've
0:48:48.880,0:48:52.960
made that really quite easy
0:48:50.480,0:48:54.720
for people to see where your heads at
0:48:52.960,0:48:56.240
and what and what you're thinking
0:48:54.720,0:48:57.920
which is perfect for what we're trying
0:48:56.240,0:49:01.440
to achieve here 100
0:48:57.920,0:49:02.880
yes you just mentioned earlier jessica
0:49:01.440,0:49:04.510
about
0:49:02.880,0:49:06.319
initially um
0:49:04.510,0:49:09.440
[Music]
0:49:06.319,0:49:12.559
worrying about perhaps
0:49:09.440,0:49:15.280
trying to rebalance and encompass
0:49:12.559,0:49:17.359
having another child as a result of
0:49:15.280,0:49:20.559
having lost a child
0:49:17.359,0:49:22.480
do you worry that that is
0:49:20.559,0:49:23.920
happening again or do you feel that
0:49:22.480,0:49:27.920
you've moved on
0:49:23.920,0:49:29.839
from that um
0:49:27.920,0:49:32.400
that's another double-edged sword right
0:49:29.839,0:49:34.800
because um
0:49:32.400,0:49:36.880
i don't know that i would want another
0:49:34.800,0:49:40.559
one had lena lived
0:49:36.880,0:49:42.720
um so that's always kind of there in the
0:49:40.559,0:49:46.079
back
0:49:42.720,0:49:49.119
but this idea of fixing something
0:49:46.079,0:49:50.319
that can't be fixed um that's not there
0:49:49.119,0:49:52.720
anymore
0:49:50.319,0:49:53.760
okay and you you can't really do with
0:49:52.720,0:49:55.920
the what ifs on that
0:49:53.760,0:49:57.599
you might have had the same thought
0:49:55.920,0:49:58.160
process four years later if you hadn't
0:49:57.599,0:50:01.280
had
0:49:58.160,0:50:03.359
the the trauma for four years ago
0:50:01.280,0:50:04.960
you might still you might still be here
0:50:03.359,0:50:06.160
going do you know what i'm ready now i'm
0:50:04.960,0:50:08.640
in a space where i've got
0:50:06.160,0:50:10.160
more to give for more love to give and
0:50:08.640,0:50:11.440
there's still more space in my heart the
0:50:10.160,0:50:13.440
way you were today
0:50:11.440,0:50:14.800
you know what i do think about sometimes
0:50:13.440,0:50:16.800
you know what i do think about sometimes
0:50:14.800,0:50:19.200
about having another one is um
0:50:16.800,0:50:20.800
i think of things i love to travel and i
0:50:19.200,0:50:21.839
think of things in terms of plane
0:50:20.800,0:50:26.000
tickets
0:50:21.839,0:50:28.640
and um i i realize now that
0:50:26.000,0:50:29.599
i'll have to get more than one like
0:50:28.640,0:50:31.440
three-row
0:50:29.599,0:50:33.200
bench you know like we'll have to be
0:50:31.440,0:50:34.880
separate now
0:50:33.200,0:50:36.640
have to send one parent here and one
0:50:34.880,0:50:38.400
parent there and
0:50:36.640,0:50:41.280
yeah yeah we've done that traveling with
0:50:38.400,0:50:44.880
the five of us in this family and um
0:50:41.280,0:50:46.319
yeah that's a pain in the butt yeah
0:50:44.880,0:50:48.240
sorry unless you're international and
0:50:46.319,0:50:50.880
you can get the whole middle row
0:50:48.240,0:50:55.839
well this is true we have done that once
0:50:50.880,0:50:55.839
it's still a pain in the back
0:51:01.359,0:51:04.480
a little girl on the plane who just
0:51:03.040,0:51:06.400
wanted to speak to her mum but my mom
0:51:04.480,0:51:08.720
just had her headphones and watching tv
0:51:06.400,0:51:10.000
so she was speaking to her mom but the
0:51:08.720,0:51:11.920
rest of us were the ones that were
0:51:10.000,0:51:13.760
actually listening
0:51:11.920,0:51:15.520
i was just like will you please just
0:51:13.760,0:51:16.480
answer your daughter she just wants some
0:51:15.520,0:51:20.160
validation
0:51:16.480,0:51:22.000
like you could just hear the whole plane
0:51:20.160,0:51:23.599
just doing this just
0:51:22.000,0:51:26.060
i could picture her right now i better
0:51:23.599,0:51:27.760
be on that flight as well i'm sure
0:51:26.060,0:51:29.200
[Laughter]
0:51:27.760,0:51:31.040
she was just she was watching tonight on
0:51:29.200,0:51:33.119
tv and she's like hey mommy emo
0:51:31.040,0:51:34.640
she was fairy glaswegian which might not
0:51:33.119,0:51:37.440
mean anything to you jessica but
0:51:34.640,0:51:38.240
i'm sure that's pitchers um she had a
0:51:37.440,0:51:40.640
very strong
0:51:38.240,0:51:41.680
thick accent and it every two seconds it
0:51:40.640,0:51:45.040
was just like hey mommy
0:51:41.680,0:51:48.480
hey mommy and we were just like
0:51:45.040,0:51:49.680
please we answered so she can stop
0:51:48.480,0:51:52.240
asking
0:51:49.680,0:51:55.520
um that's hilarious so the plane travel
0:51:52.240,0:51:58.400
doesn't change yes again i'm sorry
0:51:55.520,0:51:58.880
you know that's good to know i guess you
0:51:58.400,0:52:00.800
know
0:51:58.880,0:52:01.920
and you know you never you never judge
0:52:00.800,0:52:07.599
anybody's parenting
0:52:01.920,0:52:07.599
well is it hard not to take that back
0:52:08.720,0:52:12.480
i i no longer like see like screaming
0:52:11.920,0:52:14.559
children
0:52:12.480,0:52:16.720
and target and go like why can't you
0:52:14.559,0:52:19.040
just control your kid because like
0:52:16.720,0:52:19.040
i don't
0:52:21.040,0:52:26.400
i feel for you you know like more
0:52:24.079,0:52:27.520
like i know i've been there i have
0:52:26.400,0:52:29.920
actually like
0:52:27.520,0:52:30.880
said to other mothers but like you got
0:52:29.920,0:52:32.800
this
0:52:30.880,0:52:34.800
and you'd be amazed that like their
0:52:32.800,0:52:36.400
whole demeanor changes because
0:52:34.800,0:52:37.680
when you're a mom and you know when
0:52:36.400,0:52:39.200
you're a parent and you're standing
0:52:37.680,0:52:41.200
there and your kid is like
0:52:39.200,0:52:42.559
misbehaving in public you're just like
0:52:41.200,0:52:44.559
looking around like
0:52:42.559,0:52:47.119
everybody's judging me and i'm drowning
0:52:44.559,0:52:49.839
in an ocean of you know tantrum
0:52:47.119,0:52:50.880
and yeah when somebody just looks at you
0:52:49.839,0:52:54.160
and is like
0:52:50.880,0:52:54.720
i've been there you i i know and you got
0:52:54.160,0:52:57.119
this
0:52:54.720,0:52:58.480
it just changes just scooped up a child
0:52:57.119,0:53:00.559
and walked them outside and just been
0:52:58.480,0:53:00.559
like
0:53:05.119,0:53:08.480
have you seen have you seen all the
0:53:06.400,0:53:09.839
memes of like why my toddler's crying or
0:53:08.480,0:53:12.400
like throwing a tantrum
0:53:09.839,0:53:14.559
i haven't been sure i need to know oh
0:53:12.400,0:53:15.839
you need to google these it's like um
0:53:14.559,0:53:17.680
someone would like took a picture of
0:53:15.839,0:53:20.079
their kid having a tantrum
0:53:17.680,0:53:21.680
like my my kid's having a tantrum
0:53:20.079,0:53:25.920
because i won't let him swim
0:53:21.680,0:53:25.920
it's six degrees out and he can't swim
0:53:27.040,0:53:30.800
yeah you're a terrible parent for
0:53:28.720,0:53:32.640
keeping that child
0:53:30.800,0:53:34.240
and it's like that pretty much explains
0:53:32.640,0:53:37.040
toddlerhood right there it
0:53:34.240,0:53:38.079
really does yeah yeah we just you know i
0:53:37.040,0:53:40.559
had a magical moment
0:53:38.079,0:53:41.200
just before we came on to this call and
0:53:40.559,0:53:44.319
i shared
0:53:41.200,0:53:47.839
singing in the rain the movie with kids
0:53:44.319,0:53:49.440
now um as most people like yeah an
0:53:47.839,0:53:50.319
eight-year-old down there six-year-old
0:53:49.440,0:53:51.440
really don't
0:53:50.319,0:53:53.040
not gonna want to watch singing in the
0:53:51.440,0:53:53.839
rain but it's one of my favorite movies
0:53:53.040,0:53:57.040
of all time
0:53:53.839,0:53:59.200
i love that movie no we have to do this
0:53:57.040,0:54:00.079
um i had to stop it at times to explain
0:53:59.200,0:54:02.160
what was going on
0:54:00.079,0:54:03.440
but i i feel like i had a magical moment
0:54:02.160,0:54:04.000
with the kids because they're all
0:54:03.440,0:54:07.040
singing
0:54:04.000,0:54:10.960
and singing in the rain and good morning
0:54:07.040,0:54:10.960
we've done it i've done it i went
0:54:12.640,0:54:15.920
was it was it good morning or make them
0:54:14.400,0:54:16.880
laugh because make them laugh is
0:54:15.920,0:54:19.680
probably oh
0:54:16.880,0:54:20.880
well i warned him before we started um i
0:54:19.680,0:54:23.920
kind of was like he's the
0:54:20.880,0:54:25.680
the kind of dashing hero and
0:54:23.920,0:54:27.520
his love interest and the guy on the end
0:54:25.680,0:54:28.400
he's hilarious so you have to keep an
0:54:27.520,0:54:30.480
eye on him
0:54:28.400,0:54:31.760
and the make them laugh scene is
0:54:30.480,0:54:33.520
obviously brilliant and they were like
0:54:31.760,0:54:34.480
why is he being silly daddy because
0:54:33.520,0:54:38.000
obviously
0:54:34.480,0:54:39.520
i'm always like stopping silly
0:54:38.000,0:54:41.760
has he been so silly that is he's
0:54:39.520,0:54:43.359
dancing on the floor um
0:54:41.760,0:54:44.799
and then once he got used to the fact
0:54:43.359,0:54:46.640
that he was okay for it would be silly
0:54:44.799,0:54:50.839
in this movie they were they were just
0:54:46.640,0:54:52.160
laughing so much it was great oh that's
0:54:50.839,0:54:54.160
wonderful
0:54:52.160,0:54:55.520
i i had a magical moment so i thought
0:54:54.160,0:54:56.880
i'd share that with you because
0:54:55.520,0:54:58.720
yeah well we're talking about the
0:54:56.880,0:55:00.799
tantrums i wanted to balance
0:54:58.720,0:55:04.160
something just the scales have tipped
0:55:00.799,0:55:04.160
again yeah we've had them
0:55:05.200,0:55:08.640
and those moments are the moments you
0:55:06.400,0:55:11.200
kind of live for and i think
0:55:08.640,0:55:12.480
um again i keep calling you a superhero
0:55:11.200,0:55:15.440
but you've gone through
0:55:12.480,0:55:16.559
all of that come out the other side and
0:55:15.440,0:55:20.000
possibly stronger
0:55:16.559,0:55:23.200
i don't know um battle scarred
0:55:20.000,0:55:24.799
definitely um but
0:55:23.200,0:55:26.559
ready to take on a new challenge would
0:55:24.799,0:55:29.839
that be fair yeah
0:55:26.559,0:55:31.920
yeah and i think the positive um
0:55:29.839,0:55:33.200
you know now the positive moments
0:55:31.920,0:55:36.160
outweigh the negative
0:55:33.200,0:55:37.760
and it's it's worth it you know yeah it
0:55:36.160,0:55:40.799
would be worth it
0:55:37.760,0:55:41.680
i think i don't know call me in a couple
0:55:40.799,0:55:44.480
of years
0:55:41.680,0:55:45.760
and see you know don't don't don't tell
0:55:44.480,0:55:48.960
us that because we will do it
0:55:45.760,0:55:48.960
we will we'll keep you i mean
0:55:52.400,0:55:55.280
we said this before it's going to happen
0:55:53.920,0:55:56.559
that it's got to it's going to i'm going
0:55:55.280,0:55:57.760
to have to follow where everybody from
0:55:56.559,0:56:00.640
season one because i know
0:55:57.760,0:56:01.040
i know um such an isn't it it's been a
0:56:00.640,0:56:02.799
really
0:56:01.040,0:56:04.079
really good kind of interesting thing i
0:56:02.799,0:56:06.319
don't know if all
0:56:04.079,0:56:08.079
the topics we've got on the list are
0:56:06.319,0:56:10.240
going to be quite as insightful as
0:56:08.079,0:56:11.520
yeah some of these conversations i'm not
0:56:10.240,0:56:13.200
sure but
0:56:11.520,0:56:16.799
well if we have guests that are even
0:56:13.200,0:56:16.799
half as good as jessica's been
0:56:19.119,0:56:22.880
yeah it's been it's been really um kind
0:56:20.960,0:56:24.640
of i want to thank you for being such a
0:56:22.880,0:56:26.079
positive person
0:56:24.640,0:56:27.920
make pretty i think you'll have put
0:56:26.079,0:56:29.200
things in a perspective for more than
0:56:27.920,0:56:31.359
one person 100
0:56:29.200,0:56:32.880
well i'm one and i'm sure there are two
0:56:31.359,0:56:34.640
people there you go
0:56:32.880,0:56:36.400
even if no one else is even less than
0:56:34.640,0:56:38.160
there you go two people you've already
0:56:36.400,0:56:40.000
already done well well i'll just leave
0:56:38.160,0:56:42.880
you with this that um
0:56:40.000,0:56:44.000
infant loss is probably one of the
0:56:42.880,0:56:45.520
hardest things that people
0:56:44.000,0:56:48.079
can go through because you know you
0:56:45.520,0:56:49.440
expect to lose grandparents or parents
0:56:48.079,0:56:50.880
or something but
0:56:49.440,0:56:52.640
you know you never expect to lose your
0:56:50.880,0:56:55.680
kid um but
0:56:52.640,0:56:56.720
if it does happen to somebody like i
0:56:55.680,0:56:58.960
hope you guys you know
0:56:56.720,0:57:00.640
put some resources in there because it's
0:56:58.960,0:57:03.359
a kind of grief that
59 min
January 02, 2021 I'm ChildFree - My Tubal Ligation Surgery Experience
"How dare you have a uterus and not use it!"
Childfree (by choice) Jilly recently underwent bilateral salpingectomy surgery - a type of sterilization to allow her to remain childfree/never have children. This alternative to contraception avoids the need for other types of birth control to prevent pregnancy. Now that she is sterilized and will remain a childless couple, she tells Paul & Ryan how her family reacted!
24 min
January 02, 2021 ChildFree - Planning For Tubal Ligation Surgery
Jilly is childfree (by choice) so has opted for bilateral salpingectomy (tube removal) surgery as an alternative to contraception. This method of sterilization is permanent contraception to allow her to remain childfree/never have children and prevents the need for other birth control to prevent pregnancy. Her family don't know that they plan to remain a childless couple - find out all about her decision and how she plans to tell them!
38 min

About Life: Is It Just Me?

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Two Scots and a guest discuss life's big talking points. No judgement, just shared experiences.

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About Life: Is It Just Me?