January 26, 2021

I Conceive But Can't Carry Children

56 minutes

Linzi (Ryan's sister) can conceive but struggles to carry children full term due to a blood disorder where her blood doesn't clot. She also has lipodystrophy syndrome, meaning she can't produce fat. She talks in full about conception and the reasons why she can't carry babies, the signs to look out for and the journey of going through IVF treatment. She also discusses living with children in the family despite not having her own.----more----

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you have to have a bmi of under 35

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now i struggle to lose weight but i

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pushed and pushed and i got

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myself down to 32.5 i went up to the

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hospital

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and they told me that the guidelines had

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changed

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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hi welcome to the show this is is it

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just me the podcast which

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you don't usually have me stop so that's

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a bit weird for a start

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and the reason why i've it is weird that

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i'm

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like taking over hosting g's ha ha this

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is my show

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i'm off

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[Laughter]

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so paul and i are with you again as

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always and the reason why this one is a

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little bit different

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is that our guest is family

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so that's always a bit weird right

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definite first time for everything

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there is a first time for everything so

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we've done a few episodes now

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based on um what factors and

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considerations you have to make

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in order to have children whether you're

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going to have children or not have

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children

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and the choices and the considerations

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that go hand in hand with that now

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we're trying to cover kind of mundane

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things or

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things that are normal you know real

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life real people

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and the reason why we think this is

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really interesting is because people

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don't really talk about it openly as

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much as

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you would think they would since this is

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meant to be so normal and so mundane

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um and we found some really really

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interesting people up till now

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and unfortunately now all we're left

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with is my sister

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thanks for watching

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[Laughter]

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i know so my sister has some unique

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insight on this this is lindsay

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she's with us today and she has a unique

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insight on this because it's

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um the other side of the coin to what

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the other episodes have

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been looking at and we thought that it

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was good to explore kind of different

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angles different avenues

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and and get kind of a rounded picture

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for the entire season so we're probably

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paul and i have discussed it and we're

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hoping that it's not going to be

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um a one-sided thing and that we might

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find another couple of people who can

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kind of flesh out the other side of the

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the conversation

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so lindsay hello i'm sorry i've already

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already made fun of you in the first in

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the intro which is

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which is mean so i'm sorry but i

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wouldn't usually do that to a guests i

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know i'm sorry i apologize already

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it's what happens when it's familiar you

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can get you can get away with that have

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you noticed i haven't said anything mean

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because

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that's not something that's going to end

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well for me

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no what have you got to say this mean i

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could say things about you but i would

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i won't do that i've got a bad

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bad good cup going on here then yes you

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do you do

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once you tell us about yourself

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um um a 33 year old married woman

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and a busy job

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a small family um i don't know what else

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to tell you

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what do you do i'm i am a manager

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of a retail store

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okay and we're here to talk to you

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because

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you really want kids is that fair to say

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yes um

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i'd say now i i don't really

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want as much as i did and but yes

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yeah just to put into context isn't it

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polar

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the reason why that has now changed is

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because it's been such a long time

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as uh lindsay's wanting children for a

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long long time

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and has been kind of unable due to

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medical and other kind of things that

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have been going on in her life

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and that's the kind of things we want to

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get into today lindsay is

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could you explain just some of the

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medical reasons

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that have prevented you and some of the

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things that the doctors have said to you

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um that you would have to do in order to

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make

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um for them to help you with pregnancy

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yep

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um so i have no problem in getting

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pregnant

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and pretty easy in that department

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and the carrying the child

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because i have something called

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now i need to get this right um

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i can't even remember what's cold now

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i have a blood disorder anyway okay and

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it means that my blood doesn't clot the

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way as normal people do

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and so when the the

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egg attaches to the wall the wall then

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breaks down

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because it can't gel properly

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and there is ways to stop that happening

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but you need to be able to see a

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heartbeat for the fetus before you can

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get the injection you need to stop that

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i can never get that far

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and the one time i did and we were all

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excited and then i

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actually lost two days before the

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appointment

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um so

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that is one of their shoes they also say

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i'm overweight

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which i am but um i think they use that

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very widely for a lot of issues um

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and just in general

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i've got diabetes and

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so that would cause a lot of issues as

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well

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i've also got a liver disorder um

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it doesn't really cause me any day to

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day issues but if i was to fall pregnant

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again and carry full term

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i could have something life threatening

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and so it now it comes down to

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is it worth

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having a baby for my husband to then be

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a single father kind of thing

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to ask that how do you how do you weigh

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up that balance

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um for me i would be giving my husband

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something that

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i think he deserves and and naturally

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wants and

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but is it fair on that child to

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then have no mother

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and my husband is a very

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divine muslim well

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yeah it's a few reasons probably not the

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words

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yeah maybe not as devout as most people

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in the uk are about their religions

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yeah it doesn't eat pork it that way

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okay um

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and is that as bad as different as it

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gets

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[Laughter]

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it is right there you go we've

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coming from that culture it's all about

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big families and family

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and so that makes it a lot harder for

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him

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i suppose like he's he's not fulfilled

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his duty as the oldest son in his family

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and so i find that hard

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that i've let him down but

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i think he would i don't think he'd cope

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on his own to be honest

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um i've seen him babysit

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um yeah so and he's even said he would

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rather have me than a child so we've

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said the same though i mean obviously

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i've gotten

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an odd invested interest in this with

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you being

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family not just a guest on the show

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so obviously i think the same way i'd

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rather have you around

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than you risk that but also if it was

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possible i would wish that for you

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you know i would i want you guys to have

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everything that you

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you want but i also don't want you to

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risk your life to get it

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so for me it's it's it's hard because

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obviously i'm a bit selfish and i would

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like to keep you around

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thanks of course you've made up for your

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earlier comments i think

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oh i've got a long way ago

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i mean more than i'm nice yeah just

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about

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lindsay i thought it was interesting you

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said that you've let your husband down

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yeah i feel like i've not it's like

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it's like the norm isn't it like a woman

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should get married

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have a baby

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bring up the baby carry on the jeans

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my i feel like i've not given that to my

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husband i've kept something from him

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and he's missing out on something that

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naturally should have um

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and i feel like i he gets a bit

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i don't think he does get embarrassed

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but i think

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there's got to be something he feels

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when all his

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cousins his sisters his brothers are

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having babies

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and we're the ones that don't so

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i feel like i've i've made that happen

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for him

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does he know you feel this way if you

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shared what you've just shared with us

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with him

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yep multiple times

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how does he respond that

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in his eyes he has multiple children

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he has three nephews in america

0:10:04.399,0:10:08.320

two nephews in pakistan he's got a

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nephew here

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and he's got a niece here who's heavily

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involved with

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um to him he's got the world he doesn't

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need to then

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sacrifice what could be fatal for me

0:10:21.519,0:10:26.399

to have another baby and

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when he feels blessed to have all these

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already

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and i also think when he babysits for

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overnight

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and he he gets his own time back i think

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he sometimes thinks well

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thank god i've got that this is

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is he like dodged a bullet there

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the fact that you can come in mid

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babysitting and they're all sleeping on

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the couch

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um i think that says it all really

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that's that's a kind of sign of

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parenting generally though i mean there

0:10:55.839,0:10:58.839

is times where it's just absolutely

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exhausting

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um we obviously

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the the dynamic we have is that you you

0:11:05.040,0:11:10.000

are what i expected to be in this whole

0:11:07.200,0:11:12.320

scenario as being the cool auntie

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um i expected to be the cool uncle and

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you have all the kids and me come in and

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be like oh yeah i'll wind up your kids

0:11:15.680,0:11:19.440

and leave

0:11:16.399,0:11:21.360

um and now it feels like that that's

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kind of the tables have turned slightly

0:11:21.360,0:11:24.480

now you complain about people doing that

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to your kids i i

0:11:24.480,0:11:30.320

specifically lindsey and hassan um

0:11:28.330,0:11:33.040

[Laughter]

0:11:30.320,0:11:33.920

i am like the third parent i am not that

0:11:33.040,0:11:37.040

bad

0:11:33.920,0:11:40.399

hassan however will come in and play

0:11:37.040,0:11:42.800

play tickle time 10 minutes before beds

0:11:40.399,0:11:42.800

and

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[Laughter]

0:11:52.639,0:11:56.959

how far along lindsay numbers wise do

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you need to be you spoke about

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um needing to be able to detect the

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heartbeat before

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being given daily over eight weeks

0:12:05.600,0:12:11.440

okay um normal for

0:12:08.800,0:12:13.200

most people it's um 12 weeks is when you

0:12:11.440,0:12:15.360

go for your first scan

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and as soon as i find out i'm pregnant i

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have to get in contact and we have to

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go through all these different um

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questions and then they decide when they

0:12:23.600,0:12:28.320

get me in

0:12:25.120,0:12:32.000

when i moved to fort valley

0:12:28.320,0:12:35.040

um they basically said as soon as you

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get a pregnancy test coming

0:12:35.040,0:12:40.560

um fife however

0:12:38.160,0:12:43.200

told me that i would have to go through

0:12:40.560,0:12:44.800

the normal procedures of a pregnancy

0:12:43.200,0:12:46.959

wait for the midwife wait for the

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letters everything like that

0:12:46.959,0:12:54.079

so i think moving to for family may have

0:12:50.079,0:12:54.079

been a bit late and

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and what they've offered could have been

0:12:56.720,0:13:00.160

a lot better

0:12:57.839,0:13:01.120

earlier on but we've spoke about this

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before paul and i

0:13:01.120,0:13:05.040

and on different shows as well about

0:13:03.040,0:13:08.160

this kind of postcode lottery

0:13:05.040,0:13:10.880

for oh yeah definitely for medical help

0:13:08.160,0:13:12.079

um even now listening to that saying oh

0:13:10.880,0:13:14.240

you've kind of you feel like you've

0:13:12.079,0:13:17.600

stepped up and upgraded that medical

0:13:14.240,0:13:20.079

can access and maybe it's maybe

0:13:17.600,0:13:22.560

it's been a bit late for you um we've

0:13:20.079,0:13:26.079

been speaking to other people in america

0:13:22.560,0:13:28.000

our more recent guests have been

0:13:26.079,0:13:31.040

our previous guests have have all been

0:13:28.000,0:13:33.040

from america and their access to medical

0:13:31.040,0:13:35.120

things is completely different it seems

0:13:33.040,0:13:37.120

like they have

0:13:35.120,0:13:39.040

a different support system completely

0:13:37.120,0:13:41.279

altogether and

0:13:39.040,0:13:42.320

a lot more kind of hand holding and help

0:13:41.279,0:13:43.920

and i don't know if that's because of

0:13:42.320,0:13:46.639

the way their system's paid for

0:13:43.920,0:13:47.440

or just the culture in the country or

0:13:46.639,0:13:49.440

what it is

0:13:47.440,0:13:51.519

but it feels like we've spoken to people

0:13:49.440,0:13:53.760

who have had that access to things

0:13:51.519,0:13:54.639

that possibly you would never have had

0:13:53.760,0:13:57.360

access to

0:13:54.639,0:13:57.680

and that i think you can go over and get

0:13:57.360,0:14:00.959

0:13:57.680,0:14:02.560

ivf on your lunch or something like

0:14:00.959,0:14:04.079

it's incredible the difference over

0:14:02.560,0:14:05.440

there

0:14:04.079,0:14:07.760

totally different from from your

0:14:05.440,0:14:10.880

experience here in scotland

0:14:07.760,0:14:12.560

yeah so i got off i got put on the ivf

0:14:10.880,0:14:16.240

referral list

0:14:12.560,0:14:17.199

um and getting on that list is hard

0:14:16.240,0:14:19.839

enough

0:14:17.199,0:14:21.040

but then getting off that list to the

0:14:19.839,0:14:23.839

actual

0:14:21.040,0:14:24.800

procedure is even harder and you have to

0:14:23.839,0:14:29.839

have a bmi

0:14:24.800,0:14:32.399

of the first time it was under

0:14:29.839,0:14:34.959

now i struggle to lose weight because i

0:14:32.399,0:14:34.959

love food

0:14:35.920,0:14:41.279

i also have something called

0:14:37.360,0:14:41.279

lipodystrophy which means i can't

0:14:42.000,0:14:47.440

produce fat on my arms and legs

0:14:45.760,0:14:49.600

and apparently i can't do it on my face

0:14:47.440,0:14:53.920

but i'd beg to differ with that one

0:14:49.600,0:14:56.839

um so it means that

0:14:53.920,0:14:58.000

i find it even harder to lose weight and

0:14:56.839,0:15:01.760

that

0:14:58.000,0:15:02.639

side of it and but i pushed and pushed

0:15:01.760,0:15:06.240

and i got my

0:15:02.639,0:15:07.199

myself down to 32.5 i went up to the

0:15:06.240,0:15:10.800

hospital

0:15:07.199,0:15:12.720

all singing dancing and ready to go

0:15:10.800,0:15:15.040

and they told me that the guidelines had

0:15:12.720,0:15:19.600

changed and you had to be 30 minimum

0:15:15.040,0:15:20.639

wow so as hard as it was to get down to

0:15:19.600,0:15:23.279

that

0:15:20.639,0:15:24.839

i i kind of just gave up i was like it's

0:15:23.279,0:15:26.399

not happening

0:15:24.839,0:15:28.800

yeah time you go they change the goal

0:15:26.399,0:15:31.839

posts how are you meant to win this game

0:15:28.800,0:15:33.360

yes i understand can you remember how

0:15:31.839,0:15:35.040

you felt when you when you were told

0:15:33.360,0:15:37.360

when you went and as you say

0:15:35.040,0:15:39.199

ecstatic elated i imagine having reached

0:15:37.360,0:15:42.639

this target to be told oh by the way the

0:15:39.199,0:15:45.759

target's now 2.5 lower i think i maybe

0:15:42.639,0:15:45.759

went for the mcdonald's

0:15:48.480,0:15:51.759

probably other fast foods are available

0:15:51.199,0:15:54.959

yeah

0:15:51.759,0:15:57.120

i probably went to somewhere very

0:15:54.959,0:15:58.240

unlike what i'd had in the previous

0:15:57.120,0:16:01.759

weeks yeah

0:15:58.240,0:16:05.199

and now to be honest i actually went

0:16:01.759,0:16:07.680

to the gym okay um

0:16:05.199,0:16:09.519

and then realized that even if i i spoke

0:16:07.680,0:16:10.800

to my drum instructor at the time i was

0:16:09.519,0:16:14.000

following this five

0:16:10.800,0:16:15.120

week five days a week very strenuous

0:16:14.000,0:16:18.320

training

0:16:15.120,0:16:19.759

and very strict diet um like

0:16:18.320,0:16:23.199

being sick when you come out of training

0:16:19.759,0:16:24.800

and you've worked that hard and

0:16:23.199,0:16:27.360

i didn't follow it the same as everybody

0:16:24.800,0:16:29.279

else because of diabetes but it did work

0:16:27.360,0:16:31.839

and when i went and spoke to him i broke

0:16:29.279,0:16:35.120

down with my gym instructor and he said

0:16:31.839,0:16:36.639

lindsay you could train and lose loads

0:16:35.120,0:16:39.759

of weight but you could still be up at

0:16:36.639,0:16:41.759

that bmi because muscle weighs

0:16:39.759,0:16:43.680

and stuff frequent these bmis are

0:16:41.759,0:16:47.199

ridiculous

0:16:43.680,0:16:49.199

um so that kind of

0:16:47.199,0:16:50.720

made me think what's the point why am i

0:16:49.199,0:16:54.320

even trying

0:16:50.720,0:16:56.720

um and i think i fell into a hole then

0:16:54.320,0:16:57.839

although the gym had told me to keep

0:16:56.720,0:17:01.040

going i was like no

0:16:57.839,0:17:02.800

what's the point was it was it the lack

0:17:01.040,0:17:04.720

of motivation in your head did you have

0:17:02.800,0:17:05.919

a sort of figure and that kept you going

0:17:04.720,0:17:08.400

throughout the training yeah

0:17:05.919,0:17:10.799

the weight loss i had a goal i had

0:17:08.400,0:17:12.959

something to look forward to

0:17:10.799,0:17:14.880

and then it was just ripped away so far

0:17:12.959,0:17:17.039

well

0:17:14.880,0:17:18.400

i was happy when i wasn't happy but i

0:17:17.039,0:17:22.799

was

0:17:18.400,0:17:25.439

okay being bigger it wasn't a big issue

0:17:22.799,0:17:25.919

um health wise it probably didn't be

0:17:25.439,0:17:28.880

good

0:17:25.919,0:17:30.559

but um it's the back your mind when

0:17:28.880,0:17:33.840

you're

0:17:30.559,0:17:37.039

when you start to feel like that so um

0:17:33.840,0:17:40.400

um yeah

0:17:37.039,0:17:43.600

yeah it's difficult and um

0:17:40.400,0:17:45.600

okay obviously i can see how sad even

0:17:43.600,0:17:46.880

talking about this is making you i know

0:17:45.600,0:17:48.880

you really well so i know

0:17:46.880,0:17:50.240

when your demeanor has changed and even

0:17:48.880,0:17:52.400

from the beginning of this conversation

0:17:50.240,0:17:54.559

i've seen

0:17:52.400,0:17:56.320

bringing this up is painful so thank you

0:17:54.559,0:17:57.840

for sharing it with us because obviously

0:17:56.320,0:18:00.559

like we're not wanting to take a free

0:17:57.840,0:18:03.280

therapy session

0:18:00.559,0:18:04.000

broadcast to the internet broadcast to

0:18:03.280,0:18:06.400

the internet yeah

0:18:04.000,0:18:07.600

if it helps someday soon this is the

0:18:06.400,0:18:09.120

whole class

0:18:07.600,0:18:11.039

yeah that's kind of we spoke about that

0:18:09.120,0:18:11.919

again with a different uh on one of the

0:18:11.039,0:18:14.880

other episodes

0:18:11.919,0:18:16.240

that if we could help or shine a light

0:18:14.880,0:18:18.000

for at least one person

0:18:16.240,0:18:19.760

one other person that listens to this or

0:18:18.000,0:18:23.120

watches this

0:18:19.760,0:18:25.440

then hopefully that has that's the goal

0:18:23.120,0:18:26.559

you know the the some of the things

0:18:25.440,0:18:28.720

we've talked about are

0:18:26.559,0:18:29.919

a little bit serious and a little bit

0:18:28.720,0:18:33.039

serious really serious

0:18:29.919,0:18:36.559

yes and and kind of life

0:18:33.039,0:18:39.039

affecting and very very um

0:18:36.559,0:18:40.400

life-changing for some people and

0:18:39.039,0:18:43.440

especially some of the procedures some

0:18:40.400,0:18:45.520

of the other guests have been through um

0:18:43.440,0:18:48.320

and yours is again the other side of

0:18:45.520,0:18:49.919

that same story whereas

0:18:48.320,0:18:51.679

some of our other guests have not been

0:18:49.919,0:18:54.880

wanting to have children at all

0:18:51.679,0:18:56.240

and you have been wanting all the

0:18:54.880,0:18:58.160

children like you really would

0:18:56.240,0:19:00.880

love to get pregnant and be had all

0:18:58.160,0:19:04.160

these hurdles and obstacles and

0:19:00.880,0:19:08.160

uh it it just it just

0:19:04.160,0:19:12.080

right just really puts into perspective

0:19:08.160,0:19:15.440

how life for everybody is affected and

0:19:12.080,0:19:17.440

it's not just you so

0:19:15.440,0:19:19.600

yeah i think i've remembered did you see

0:19:17.440,0:19:19.600

that

0:19:19.919,0:19:23.840

i think i've wanted well you'll know

0:19:22.160,0:19:24.559

this i've wanted kids since i was like

0:19:23.840,0:19:26.960

10 years

0:19:24.559,0:19:29.120

probably before that when i asked mum

0:19:26.960,0:19:32.480

for baby dolls and

0:19:29.120,0:19:34.320

everything and we used to go to charity

0:19:32.480,0:19:36.000

events and if somebody had a baby stall

0:19:34.320,0:19:38.160

i'd buy every baby

0:19:36.000,0:19:40.160

nutty jumper and like mum can i put that

0:19:38.160,0:19:41.440

in my my bottom drawer

0:19:40.160,0:19:43.120

everybody has a bottom drawer for their

0:19:41.440,0:19:44.480

first house i had a bottom drawer for my

0:19:43.120,0:19:48.480

first baby

0:19:44.480,0:19:50.320

um and

0:19:48.480,0:19:51.760

like when i was at college i was in a

0:19:50.320,0:19:53.760

community care course and you had to

0:19:51.760,0:19:56.160

have the baby overnight

0:19:53.760,0:19:57.520

i asked to be the last one to have it so

0:19:56.160,0:20:00.720

i could have it for a week

0:19:57.520,0:20:02.400

wow um because i was so excited

0:20:00.720,0:20:04.000

like i took it everywhere i had at the

0:20:02.400,0:20:06.960

dinner table there was a lot of family

0:20:04.000,0:20:06.960

arguments over that

0:20:09.360,0:20:12.400

my mom getting up in the middle of the

0:20:10.640,0:20:14.000

night because the keys falling at the

0:20:12.400,0:20:17.440

back and the baby's screaming and i'm

0:20:14.000,0:20:19.919

fast asleep um changed its

0:20:17.440,0:20:22.080

outfits about four times a day i was

0:20:19.919,0:20:25.520

just

0:20:22.080,0:20:27.919

i loved it um see when i had an animal

0:20:25.520,0:20:27.919

baby

0:20:28.720,0:20:32.080

that was the dream at this time

0:20:32.840,0:20:37.200

revolutionary

0:20:35.039,0:20:39.280

so yeah um i went through a few things

0:20:37.200,0:20:41.200

when i was younger though that

0:20:39.280,0:20:42.640

i think everybody said i'd be the first

0:20:41.200,0:20:44.320

person to get married i'd be the first

0:20:42.640,0:20:47.520

person to have a baby

0:20:44.320,0:20:50.880

clearly that was not the case and

0:20:47.520,0:20:52.880

one of my friends had a baby at

0:20:50.880,0:20:54.159

i think she was a week after her 16th

0:20:52.880,0:20:55.600

birthday

0:20:54.159,0:20:57.200

and she was the one that was never

0:20:55.600,0:20:59.120

having a baby

0:20:57.200,0:21:02.799

and so i was like well if you've had one

0:20:59.120,0:21:04.799

it's okay for me to have one now um

0:21:02.799,0:21:06.880

and then i got a job i went to college i

0:21:04.799,0:21:11.120

got my first serious boyfriend

0:21:06.880,0:21:11.120

i actually fell pregnant at

0:21:11.360,0:21:19.440

i'm 15 and

0:21:15.200,0:21:22.559

i went and had um

0:21:19.440,0:21:26.159

the procedure to get rid of it

0:21:22.559,0:21:28.960

i probably wouldn't have carried it full

0:21:26.159,0:21:32.400

term anyway knowing what i know now

0:21:28.960,0:21:35.679

but i sometimes blame myself that that

0:21:32.400,0:21:40.320

is karma for what i did when i was 15.

0:21:35.679,0:21:42.159

um but when you're 15 years old and your

0:21:40.320,0:21:45.039

your boyfriend says it's near the baby

0:21:42.159,0:21:46.480

you kind of like them well

0:21:45.039,0:21:48.960

never going to find another guy in my

0:21:46.480,0:21:52.320

life and

0:21:48.960,0:21:55.600

so i think that's affected me a lot

0:21:52.320,0:21:57.600

and and then from then on i've always

0:21:55.600,0:21:59.600

searched for something just to fill it

0:21:57.600,0:22:02.080

like i had a duck that hung in my car

0:21:59.600,0:22:03.840

that nobody knew what that represented

0:22:02.080,0:22:05.120

that represented this baby that i'd got

0:22:03.840,0:22:07.919

rid of

0:22:05.120,0:22:09.280

and i know no longer have that duck

0:22:07.919,0:22:12.640

because

0:22:09.280,0:22:13.840

it reminds me of what i'm i feel guilty

0:22:12.640,0:22:15.840

about now

0:22:13.840,0:22:17.280

and and that's the last thing i need

0:22:15.840,0:22:20.400

everything else

0:22:17.280,0:22:22.000

and but i do feel that i blame myself

0:22:20.400,0:22:25.039

for that

0:22:22.000,0:22:25.760

it's an interesting um psychological

0:22:25.039,0:22:28.960

point of view

0:22:25.760,0:22:29.840

that you and it's not it's not uncommon

0:22:28.960,0:22:33.280

obviously there are

0:22:29.840,0:22:33.600

these um these uh surrogate babies you

0:22:33.280,0:22:35.120

know

0:22:33.600,0:22:36.720

they're not i don't want to pretend

0:22:35.120,0:22:41.840

babies but like

0:22:36.720,0:22:41.840

them they're almost electronic yeah

0:22:41.919,0:22:46.159

if somebody's lost a baby that they can

0:22:44.000,0:22:49.360

mother this until their

0:22:46.159,0:22:51.280

bereavement is over or you know um

0:22:49.360,0:22:52.799

i've seen those and obviously there's a

0:22:51.280,0:22:55.440

psychological aspect to

0:22:52.799,0:22:56.960

guilt and the way you're feeling and and

0:22:55.440,0:22:59.840

we're not psychologists paul and i

0:22:56.960,0:23:00.400

so we can't really weigh in on on that

0:22:59.840,0:23:03.280

but we do

0:23:00.400,0:23:04.320

find it fascinating the way that

0:23:03.280,0:23:07.679

people's lives

0:23:04.320,0:23:11.120

affects the decision-making process

0:23:07.679,0:23:12.559

and um i mean obviously to hear you say

0:23:11.120,0:23:14.000

that you feel guilty for something you

0:23:12.559,0:23:17.440

did when you were 15.

0:23:14.000,0:23:20.080

i i think as as your brother

0:23:17.440,0:23:22.510

you need to let that go yeah i think i

0:23:20.080,0:23:27.010

did a lot more when i

0:23:22.510,0:23:27.010

[Laughter]

0:23:32.260,0:23:36.660

[Laughter]

0:23:35.120,0:23:38.880

after hours

0:23:36.660,0:23:41.039

[Laughter]

0:23:38.880,0:23:42.159

i do i do remember when we were younger

0:23:41.039,0:23:44.559

and i used to say

0:23:42.159,0:23:45.840

ryan used to say i want to be cool uncle

0:23:44.559,0:23:48.559

ryan

0:23:45.840,0:23:49.679

play with the child and then leave i

0:23:48.559,0:23:52.000

want that role

0:23:49.679,0:23:54.640

and i never thought i'd dream of being

0:23:52.000,0:23:54.640

an auntie

0:23:54.880,0:23:59.679

i always i did always think it would be

0:23:57.200,0:24:03.039

the other way around it was weird

0:23:59.679,0:24:04.080

um but you have a massive involvement

0:24:03.039,0:24:06.720

with our children

0:24:04.080,0:24:08.000

like as much as i possibly could have as

0:24:06.720,0:24:09.520

as an auntie

0:24:08.000,0:24:11.840

without you know encroaching on my own

0:24:09.520,0:24:11.840

marriage

0:24:12.000,0:24:19.520

like hey i i think i'm pretty

0:24:15.039,0:24:21.360

there's a gray line there too

0:24:19.520,0:24:22.559

there's another psychological freudian

0:24:21.360,0:24:24.640

thing that we need to

0:24:22.559,0:24:26.559

probably stay away from on this episode

0:24:24.640,0:24:29.440

but

0:24:26.559,0:24:29.440

no i mean like

0:24:30.000,0:24:33.600

maybe not on the first pregnancy but

0:24:31.919,0:24:37.120

when when marisa was

0:24:33.600,0:24:40.240

being planned shall we say i was very

0:24:37.120,0:24:42.400

much involved in that planning

0:24:40.240,0:24:44.320

you're like not the active i was gonna

0:24:42.400,0:24:47.120

say like can you just clarify exactly

0:24:44.320,0:24:48.480

what you mean by yeah yeah she was

0:24:47.120,0:24:50.559

yeah let's clarify she was not there

0:24:48.480,0:24:54.400

with the video camera there's no

0:24:50.559,0:24:54.400

there's no production involved

0:24:54.559,0:25:00.480

no like i was very involved in the

0:24:57.919,0:25:00.480

the date

0:25:13.600,0:25:18.320

yes she was and i because i was like i

0:25:16.480,0:25:19.120

can't wait to go to america like family

0:25:18.320,0:25:22.000

holiday and

0:25:19.120,0:25:22.640

apollo's like and said maybe maybe not

0:25:22.000,0:25:26.320

do that

0:25:22.640,0:25:27.600

and i was like okay now you need to tell

0:25:26.320,0:25:28.720

me more and she's like okay but nobody

0:25:27.600,0:25:31.919

else knows

0:25:28.720,0:25:32.640

and i'm like what is that and then she

0:25:31.919,0:25:34.080

pulled me in the middle of the

0:25:32.640,0:25:38.880

supermarket and went

0:25:34.080,0:25:38.880

don't plan america i was like yeah

0:25:39.200,0:25:46.720

um so yeah that was my involvement

0:25:42.960,0:25:47.840

jackson i hadn't just clarified no idea

0:25:46.720,0:25:49.760

that was a very

0:25:47.840,0:25:51.440

um i think it was father's day when you

0:25:49.760,0:25:54.640

told us was it not

0:25:51.440,0:25:57.520

for your first year um

0:25:54.640,0:25:59.279

um i don't remember that but i do i mean

0:25:57.520,0:26:00.640

i did remember this all getting together

0:25:59.279,0:26:04.720

at my dad's

0:26:00.640,0:26:08.080

and i had found that i was pregnant

0:26:04.720,0:26:11.360

which i think made it worse at the time

0:26:08.080,0:26:13.200

but not no i mean like

0:26:11.360,0:26:15.760

for your news coming out because it kind

0:26:13.200,0:26:18.799

of like darkened that but for me

0:26:15.760,0:26:21.360

your news took away that

0:26:18.799,0:26:22.960

so um it was it was really good because

0:26:21.360,0:26:24.960

i remember going downstairs and buying

0:26:22.960,0:26:28.480

all these chocolates and

0:26:24.960,0:26:31.440

stuff for getting excited

0:26:28.480,0:26:32.159

i want to ask lindsey because you're

0:26:31.440,0:26:35.279

obviously

0:26:32.159,0:26:39.840

heavily involved in brian's life and

0:26:35.279,0:26:41.919

his wife's life and his kids um

0:26:39.840,0:26:43.120

what's that like for both you and your

0:26:41.919,0:26:46.480

husband

0:26:43.120,0:26:47.760

knowing that you want to have your own

0:26:46.480,0:26:50.480

family

0:26:47.760,0:26:52.559

but there are so many kids to look after

0:26:50.480,0:26:56.400

in other families is that

0:26:52.559,0:26:56.400

how does that feel um

0:26:56.799,0:27:01.120

it's a blessing in disguise because it

0:26:59.200,0:27:02.320

had i think if i didn't have all these

0:27:01.120,0:27:06.080

children

0:27:02.320,0:27:08.240

in my life it would be a lot harder but

0:27:06.080,0:27:09.520

then on the other side it's hard to see

0:27:08.240,0:27:12.080

them

0:27:09.520,0:27:13.600

like pull over the bump and yeah

0:27:12.080,0:27:16.880

preparing and stuff like that

0:27:13.600,0:27:18.880

i want to be doing that

0:27:16.880,0:27:21.760

we looked at adoption but there's so

0:27:18.880,0:27:24.799

many hoops to jump through that as well

0:27:21.760,0:27:26.240

um and career got in the way they wanted

0:27:24.799,0:27:28.720

every saturday

0:27:26.240,0:27:30.000

and for 12 weeks on the run up to

0:27:28.720,0:27:33.200

christmas

0:27:30.000,0:27:36.559

um retail that is not

0:27:33.200,0:27:38.000

gonna happen for anybody um as much as

0:27:36.559,0:27:42.480

my bosses are great that

0:27:38.000,0:27:45.520

no and so we kind of say

0:27:42.480,0:27:46.159

swipe that and we've looked at one doing

0:27:45.520,0:27:49.440

it again

0:27:46.159,0:27:52.559

but it's just the time

0:27:49.440,0:27:55.200

that it'll take for all of this it would

0:27:52.559,0:27:56.640

be worth it in the end it's just

0:27:55.200,0:27:57.919

i don't know where i'd find the time i

0:27:56.640,0:27:59.600

don't even know if i'd have a child in

0:27:57.919,0:28:04.559

it to be honest

0:27:59.600,0:28:07.600

um we've connected now you do that

0:28:04.559,0:28:09.600

yeah you have to don't yes no choice

0:28:07.600,0:28:12.080

yeah ryan spoke about that before

0:28:09.600,0:28:14.159

he spoke about sort of being unsure and

0:28:12.080,0:28:15.600

then you said within about 30 seconds it

0:28:14.159,0:28:16.880

was like well

0:28:15.600,0:28:20.399

i don't have a chance to be unsure

0:28:16.880,0:28:22.240

anymore exactly it's coming

0:28:20.399,0:28:24.080

today i remember dave was born and you

0:28:22.240,0:28:25.679

came to my work and you kind of sat in

0:28:24.080,0:28:28.720

my work for two hours

0:28:25.679,0:28:31.760

stinking by the way off because

0:28:28.720,0:28:32.880

after three days have been oh in a

0:28:31.760,0:28:36.480

hospital

0:28:32.880,0:28:36.480

waiting for a baby no just

0:28:37.120,0:28:40.880

it wasn't like as bad as that yes

0:28:42.799,0:28:47.279

thanks very much yes you came in and you

0:28:44.640,0:28:50.080

hadn't washed for a week

0:28:47.279,0:28:50.080

and it was really obvious

0:28:50.880,0:28:58.000

no but it added to this like

0:28:53.919,0:29:01.279

he had chosen to drive past his home

0:28:58.000,0:29:04.080

to my place of work

0:29:01.279,0:29:05.919

wait for me to finish work go down to

0:29:04.080,0:29:08.320

the photoshop put some photos of her

0:29:05.919,0:29:09.679

baby that has literally just come onto

0:29:08.320,0:29:13.360

there

0:29:09.679,0:29:17.200

and sat around so much that my boss went

0:29:13.360,0:29:19.600

lindsay i think you should go home and

0:29:17.200,0:29:22.000

i was like yeah please he's like yeah

0:29:19.600,0:29:25.440

these two are not

0:29:22.000,0:29:28.640

gonna settle so just go um and then

0:29:25.440,0:29:30.960

i was the first like the boss i'm not

0:29:28.640,0:29:34.159

leaving until yeah

0:29:30.960,0:29:38.240

thanks paul if you're watching

0:29:34.159,0:29:41.760

uh so that was really exciting because

0:29:38.240,0:29:44.480

he chose to come and get me and me be

0:29:41.760,0:29:46.159

the first person to go into that

0:29:44.480,0:29:47.520

the hospital that nobody was allowed

0:29:46.159,0:29:48.640

into so i had to hide behind a curtain

0:29:47.520,0:29:52.399

at one point i think

0:29:48.640,0:29:54.159

wow i don't think because

0:29:52.399,0:29:56.640

you were completely allowed in i just

0:29:54.159,0:29:59.120

think they would have rather not hads

0:29:56.640,0:29:59.919

no but remember when she was getting

0:29:59.120,0:30:03.760

something

0:29:59.919,0:30:05.279

okay the baby had an affection so

0:30:03.760,0:30:06.799

they were just trying to be cautious

0:30:05.279,0:30:09.840

okay trying to get me out though that

0:30:06.799,0:30:11.440

would have been a test

0:30:09.840,0:30:13.440

and i remember just sitting there with

0:30:11.440,0:30:17.360

them on my chest and

0:30:13.440,0:30:19.440

try to take selfies um as you do

0:30:17.360,0:30:21.360

yeah and i was still in my working form

0:30:19.440,0:30:24.720

and everything it was

0:30:21.360,0:30:26.960

it was a weird couple of days that

0:30:24.720,0:30:26.960

0:30:29.440,0:30:34.159

seeing ryan hey daddy took that like

0:30:32.080,0:30:37.039

turned up to water he just

0:30:34.159,0:30:38.960

his excitement rubbed off on all of us

0:30:37.039,0:30:42.880

did you see a change in mind

0:30:38.960,0:30:46.880

when his son was born yes

0:30:42.880,0:30:49.760

what sort of change um

0:30:46.880,0:30:51.120

so as you can see ryan is not a very

0:30:49.760,0:30:56.880

serious person

0:30:51.120,0:31:00.320

no and humor covers a lot of our life

0:30:56.880,0:31:04.640

and so when

0:31:00.320,0:31:07.840

jackson came along you saw the changing

0:31:04.640,0:31:10.960

seriousness the the banter

0:31:07.840,0:31:12.399

aspect was still there but the watch his

0:31:10.960,0:31:15.440

head

0:31:12.399,0:31:19.460

don't do that don't flush the toilet he

0:31:15.440,0:31:22.690

might wake up

0:31:19.460,0:31:22.690

[Laughter]

0:31:28.399,0:31:32.480

i don't even think i saw what was going

0:31:29.840,0:31:35.760

on in any of those programs

0:31:32.480,0:31:38.720

um should we really be

0:31:35.760,0:31:39.840

um having this in the house just like

0:31:38.720,0:31:43.600

things that you

0:31:39.840,0:31:43.600

never thought ryan would ever

0:31:43.840,0:31:48.799

ever think about um i suppose he risk

0:31:47.840,0:31:52.159

assessed his

0:31:48.799,0:31:53.919

his whole life um

0:31:52.159,0:31:56.159

and it was nice to see and it was nice

0:31:53.919,0:31:59.600

to be involved in as well

0:31:56.159,0:32:00.159

um you have no you've been involved with

0:31:59.600,0:32:03.279

a lot

0:32:00.159,0:32:05.360

a lot of it and i hope that i mean it's

0:32:03.279,0:32:07.279

not it's not like i've done that for you

0:32:05.360,0:32:09.120

i've never been like oh we should think

0:32:07.279,0:32:10.559

so this is

0:32:09.120,0:32:12.640

should have a child you should look

0:32:10.559,0:32:16.240

after the child

0:32:12.640,0:32:18.080

yeah um no i was you i think we

0:32:16.240,0:32:19.600

decided quite early on that it would be

0:32:18.080,0:32:22.480

important for you to be involved

0:32:19.600,0:32:22.880

um for all of the factors that you've

0:32:22.480,0:32:26.000

you've

0:32:22.880,0:32:30.240

kind of already mentioned the one

0:32:26.000,0:32:34.000

that you so wanted to have that kind of

0:32:30.240,0:32:35.360

maternal involvement and it was great to

0:32:34.000,0:32:37.440

have somebody who was somebody

0:32:35.360,0:32:40.159

so supportive like we needed a support

0:32:37.440,0:32:43.919

network it was great to have

0:32:40.159,0:32:46.640

a direct family member who wanted to be

0:32:43.919,0:32:48.240

directly involved so i know he takes two

0:32:46.640,0:32:51.120

weeks off and the nephew's born and

0:32:48.240,0:32:54.080

stays the full two weeks

0:32:51.120,0:32:54.640

like someone who's dedicated we worked

0:32:54.080,0:32:56.559

we worked

0:32:54.640,0:32:58.399

out together because paula unfortunately

0:32:56.559,0:33:02.240

because she'd had such a rough pregnancy

0:32:58.399,0:33:05.440

was quite ill so um

0:33:02.240,0:33:06.640

i had it would have been all on me for

0:33:05.440,0:33:10.240

those two weeks

0:33:06.640,0:33:11.360

uh if you hadn't been there so like i

0:33:10.240,0:33:12.799

can only like i've

0:33:11.360,0:33:15.519

i've thanked you before but i can thank

0:33:12.799,0:33:19.039

you on on the internet thank you lance

0:33:15.519,0:33:20.480

um that the you were there to help

0:33:19.039,0:33:22.799

support me during that time

0:33:20.480,0:33:24.000

and there was one there was one specific

0:33:22.799,0:33:25.519

night where um

0:33:24.000,0:33:27.440

because paula really wanted to continue

0:33:25.519,0:33:31.360

breastfeeding we didn't want to

0:33:27.440,0:33:33.919

bring in the the the

0:33:31.360,0:33:34.399

the baby milk you know the what do they

0:33:33.919,0:33:37.760

call it

0:33:34.399,0:33:38.399

formula yeah um they wanted uh we wanted

0:33:37.760,0:33:39.600

to kind of

0:33:38.399,0:33:40.640

that we've been told by the health

0:33:39.600,0:33:42.640

visitor that you shouldn't do

0:33:40.640,0:33:45.679

combination feeding that you should do

0:33:42.640,0:33:46.799

breastfeeding or one combination feeding

0:33:45.679,0:33:48.080

doesn't really work because then the

0:33:46.799,0:33:50.320

baby won't latch on

0:33:48.080,0:33:51.600

to its mother and there was a bit of

0:33:50.320,0:33:54.080

that and we were like

0:33:51.600,0:33:54.640

right okay so we were kind of first-time

0:33:54.080,0:33:56.320

parents

0:33:54.640,0:33:57.760

i was about paula was like right well we

0:33:56.320,0:33:59.039

can't do the formula thing we need to

0:33:57.760,0:34:00.480

make sure that i'm

0:33:59.039,0:34:02.640

which is big pressure on her with her

0:34:00.480,0:34:05.039

not being well like she's not

0:34:02.640,0:34:06.240

feeling great she's i'm really tired

0:34:05.039,0:34:08.560

she's still struggling with

0:34:06.240,0:34:10.720

um the after effects of the pregnancy

0:34:08.560,0:34:13.919

and fit infection and

0:34:10.720,0:34:14.639

um and just it was a rough time for her

0:34:13.919,0:34:17.679

so she was

0:34:14.639,0:34:21.040

she was still healing and he was a very

0:34:17.679,0:34:23.520

hungry baby he was a very hungry baby

0:34:21.040,0:34:25.440

so we kind of decided one night because

0:34:23.520,0:34:26.560

paula was fast asleep the baby so

0:34:25.440,0:34:29.440

jackson's crying

0:34:26.560,0:34:30.240

um we we had explored everything that's

0:34:29.440,0:34:31.919

0:34:30.240,0:34:33.919

once we're just gonna need to feed him

0:34:31.919,0:34:35.520

like i'm not waking paula up we're not

0:34:33.919,0:34:38.320

doing it

0:34:35.520,0:34:40.159

um it's it's just we did not make that

0:34:38.320,0:34:43.040

decision in five minutes

0:34:40.159,0:34:43.839

i must have to say we that took us a

0:34:43.040,0:34:46.960

good time

0:34:43.839,0:34:50.720

to morally we

0:34:46.960,0:34:50.720

first bottle first feed

0:34:50.800,0:34:54.159

what was paula's reaction when you woke

0:34:52.879,0:34:58.240

up when she woke up and

0:34:54.159,0:35:01.359

you told her thank you okay

0:34:58.240,0:35:02.640

so i could call it because it's still

0:35:01.359,0:35:05.440

latched on as well

0:35:02.640,0:35:06.800

after that so it's combination feeding

0:35:05.440,0:35:10.000

for us that actually work

0:35:06.800,0:35:11.760

it works really well so and i got to be

0:35:10.000,0:35:12.960

more involved

0:35:11.760,0:35:14.800

because you've got to actually feed him

0:35:12.960,0:35:18.480

with a bottle yeah you know

0:35:14.800,0:35:20.640

that that's and i know most dads

0:35:18.480,0:35:22.560

admit to this that as soon as you're

0:35:20.640,0:35:24.480

able to feed your child

0:35:22.560,0:35:26.640

you that is when you actually are able

0:35:24.480,0:35:28.240

to be involved in that process because

0:35:26.640,0:35:29.760

you can't give birth to the baby so

0:35:28.240,0:35:30.480

you've not you've been there but you've

0:35:29.760,0:35:32.320

been supported

0:35:30.480,0:35:34.480

in a support network but now you're

0:35:32.320,0:35:36.160

actually actively helping keep this baby

0:35:34.480,0:35:38.960

alive you're like oh look i'm feet i'm

0:35:36.160,0:35:41.839

feeding this baby like i'm doing that

0:35:38.960,0:35:43.520

so like that for a lot of that is that

0:35:41.839,0:35:47.119

moment where you're like

0:35:43.520,0:35:49.119

here i am i'm providing i'm i i'm doing

0:35:47.119,0:35:50.320

doing the actual parenting now that

0:35:49.119,0:35:51.839

makes sense

0:35:50.320,0:35:54.240

so for a moment that you're like i'm

0:35:51.839,0:35:56.480

actually involved now um

0:35:54.240,0:35:58.240

i know i remember when we did it and i

0:35:56.480,0:35:59.200

said you need to do it first i can't be

0:35:58.240,0:36:02.720

the first one to get

0:35:59.200,0:36:04.560

baseball yeah as much as i'd

0:36:02.720,0:36:05.920

love that and did you right did you give

0:36:04.560,0:36:07.839

the first bottle

0:36:05.920,0:36:09.440

well obviously yeah and we were in that

0:36:07.839,0:36:11.200

moment um

0:36:09.440,0:36:12.720

that lindsay just explained but we're in

0:36:11.200,0:36:15.040

that moment where we were scared

0:36:12.720,0:36:16.560

that we were going against paula's

0:36:15.040,0:36:18.400

wishes

0:36:16.560,0:36:19.920

and and i understood the reason for it

0:36:18.400,0:36:21.920

it wasn't just paul's wishes like we

0:36:19.920,0:36:23.920

we had both been told this by the health

0:36:21.920,0:36:25.119

visit so we just

0:36:23.920,0:36:26.960

i was worried that we were doing

0:36:25.119,0:36:28.800

something wrong

0:36:26.960,0:36:30.320

and looking back now that seems crazy

0:36:28.800,0:36:31.920

but at the time

0:36:30.320,0:36:34.400

when you're in it and the first baby i

0:36:31.920,0:36:36.079

was just like i thought

0:36:34.400,0:36:37.760

are we are we doing the right thing like

0:36:36.079,0:36:39.200

are we ruining

0:36:37.760,0:36:41.119

are we ruining something you've spoke

0:36:39.200,0:36:42.400

about this before about not only having

0:36:41.119,0:36:44.880

that then but having that

0:36:42.400,0:36:46.240

basically throughout the whole time that

0:36:44.880,0:36:46.800

you bring up children am i doing the

0:36:46.240,0:36:49.839

right thing

0:36:46.800,0:36:51.359

am i am i causing the harm here you know

0:36:49.839,0:36:53.680

yeah you're always second guess yourself

0:36:51.359,0:36:55.839

because you wonder if it's something

0:36:53.680,0:36:57.280

if you did something that would cause

0:36:55.839,0:36:59.359

harm

0:36:57.280,0:37:00.400

could you forgive yourself with that so

0:36:59.359,0:37:02.480

i've i always

0:37:00.400,0:37:03.680

and linda lindsey said uh yeah he's not

0:37:02.480,0:37:05.359

very serious when it comes to my

0:37:03.680,0:37:06.240

children i've become very serious i'm

0:37:05.359,0:37:08.320

0:37:06.240,0:37:09.839

no no we're gonna we're gonna think this

0:37:08.320,0:37:11.520

through we'll risk assess every part

0:37:09.839,0:37:13.280

turn that tv down

0:37:11.520,0:37:15.520

yeah turn that tv down do not flush that

0:37:13.280,0:37:15.520

toilet

0:37:15.839,0:37:20.640

um do you know about just like all the

0:37:18.880,0:37:21.359

thought processes that we have available

0:37:20.640,0:37:23.520

to us now

0:37:21.359,0:37:25.680

i might make a decision that's wrong

0:37:23.520,0:37:26.400

based on the information i have been

0:37:25.680,0:37:28.400

wrong

0:37:26.400,0:37:30.560

that's that's different i can't help

0:37:28.400,0:37:31.920

that but to have make the wrong decision

0:37:30.560,0:37:32.960

because i haven't thought it through i

0:37:31.920,0:37:36.320

could not live with that

0:37:32.960,0:37:38.480

yeah so um

0:37:36.320,0:37:40.720

that's why on that moment when wendy and

0:37:38.480,0:37:41.280

i were having to feed jackson we were

0:37:40.720,0:37:44.320

just like

0:37:41.280,0:37:46.640

ah are we doing the right thing

0:37:44.320,0:37:48.480

because the health visitor says no and

0:37:46.640,0:37:50.320

she surely knows better than we do

0:37:48.480,0:37:52.079

but this baby's hungry like it's this

0:37:50.320,0:37:55.200

we've changed his bum

0:37:52.079,0:37:58.640

we've tried to rock him to sleep

0:37:55.200,0:37:59.280

there's nothing left like he's clearly

0:37:58.640,0:38:01.440

hungry

0:37:59.280,0:38:02.720

and we need to feed him so let's feed

0:38:01.440,0:38:06.640

him um

0:38:02.720,0:38:09.200

and risk in the morning paula been like

0:38:06.640,0:38:09.760

what have we done and well it's it was

0:38:09.200,0:38:11.520

one thing

0:38:09.760,0:38:13.280

it was it became to the point where it

0:38:11.520,0:38:14.880

was very obvious that jackson was hungry

0:38:13.280,0:38:17.040

and paula wasn't

0:38:14.880,0:38:19.359

able to help him because she was she was

0:38:17.040,0:38:22.560

so unwell

0:38:19.359,0:38:22.560

it wasn't that either he was

0:38:22.720,0:38:25.760

paula could have milked till the cows

0:38:25.119,0:38:27.680

came home

0:38:25.760,0:38:28.960

and it still would not have been enough

0:38:27.680,0:38:32.079

for that baby okay

0:38:28.960,0:38:34.320

yeah he was very hungry um so we did we

0:38:32.079,0:38:35.839

we fed him there and then and actually

0:38:34.320,0:38:37.359

there after we were giving him hungry

0:38:35.839,0:38:39.200

baby milk it wasn't even

0:38:37.359,0:38:40.960

like normal formula well after that we

0:38:39.200,0:38:43.040

were giving him like for a little while

0:38:40.960,0:38:44.960

we did but then he was still hungry

0:38:43.040,0:38:46.560

and we were combination feeding and he

0:38:44.960,0:38:47.280

he clearly got a taste for milk and he

0:38:46.560,0:38:50.480

was like

0:38:47.280,0:38:53.599

this is awesome give me more um

0:38:50.480,0:38:53.839

and he's as soon as we started feeding

0:38:53.599,0:38:57.119

him

0:38:53.839,0:38:57.599

uh on the bottle he slept all the time

0:38:57.119,0:38:59.520

didn't he

0:38:57.599,0:39:01.760

once he was just a great sleeper he

0:38:59.520,0:39:04.720

slept it was a great baby

0:39:01.760,0:39:05.760

he was a brilliant baby um vlad is in

0:39:04.720,0:39:10.400

her full sense of

0:39:05.760,0:39:13.839

he said absolutely amazing baby um

0:39:10.400,0:39:15.359

like when he was a like technically a

0:39:13.839,0:39:17.599

toddler but not really

0:39:15.359,0:39:19.440

um it was the size of her take himself

0:39:17.599,0:39:20.720

to bed it would like

0:39:19.440,0:39:22.720

there was a size but it would crawl to

0:39:20.720,0:39:23.440

the bottom of the bottom step and we

0:39:22.720,0:39:26.640

would like

0:39:23.440,0:39:27.200

is it bedtime anybody yeah then we were

0:39:26.640,0:39:30.320

0:39:27.200,0:39:33.359

okay this is perfect so

0:39:30.320,0:39:33.839

it's bed it's bedtime then so we and

0:39:33.359,0:39:35.680

then

0:39:33.839,0:39:37.040

we i had started doing this thing where

0:39:35.680,0:39:38.000

i was helping him up the stairs like

0:39:37.040,0:39:39.599

obviously i wouldn't let go of the

0:39:38.000,0:39:42.000

stairs himself as a baby but

0:39:39.599,0:39:44.560

um like showing him that we were going

0:39:42.000,0:39:45.839

upstairs and i would like

0:39:44.560,0:39:47.760

he'd be trying to crawl up the stairs

0:39:45.839,0:39:49.200

and i'd like help his knees get to the

0:39:47.760,0:39:51.760

next step and

0:39:49.200,0:39:52.960

doing everything took ages but we got to

0:39:51.760,0:39:53.839

the top steps so he was obviously

0:39:52.960,0:39:56.160

knackered by the

0:39:53.839,0:39:57.920

time we got to the top and then we got

0:39:56.160,0:39:59.760

into we took her into bed and he was

0:39:57.920,0:40:03.760

0:39:59.760,0:40:03.760

the dummy pastor take his own dummy

0:40:04.960,0:40:10.000

yeah like it's asleep um

0:40:08.000,0:40:11.119

and that was that and then we were like

0:40:10.000,0:40:13.920

right well how long's

0:40:11.119,0:40:15.599

how how long is he going to be down for

0:40:13.920,0:40:19.200

the only time he woke up

0:40:15.599,0:40:24.079

is when he lost him wow

0:40:19.200,0:40:26.400

and i think they had like a sofa

0:40:24.079,0:40:27.359

they had like a sofa bed in his bedroom

0:40:26.400,0:40:29.359

and that was

0:40:27.359,0:40:31.440

that was my bed how i made that through

0:40:29.359,0:40:34.800

without making any noise i don't know

0:40:31.440,0:40:36.560

um and he used to wake up

0:40:34.800,0:40:38.480

as soon as i heard a week cry i had a

0:40:36.560,0:40:42.000

spare dummy i was there

0:40:38.480,0:40:44.560

and then one night i heard him gurgle

0:40:42.000,0:40:47.040

and i was ready and i sat and watched

0:40:44.560,0:40:49.760

him he crawled to the end of his court

0:40:47.040,0:40:51.760

he knew where those dummies were kept

0:40:49.760,0:40:53.920

reached over the side of the clock got a

0:40:51.760,0:40:58.000

dummy from the top of the drawers

0:40:53.920,0:41:00.079

i went back to sleep wow and i was like

0:40:58.000,0:41:01.680

i don't even know how old he was he

0:41:00.079,0:41:06.480

couldn't talk anyway wow

0:41:01.680,0:41:06.480

no it was he was yeah and he was just

0:41:14.480,0:41:17.440

like other people other parents are like

0:41:16.240,0:41:18.319

uh we don't get any sleep with their

0:41:17.440,0:41:20.560

baby

0:41:18.319,0:41:22.400

that's that is true there is an element

0:41:20.560,0:41:24.240

of that but we worked really hard

0:41:22.400,0:41:25.839

um doing i think there's a thing called

0:41:24.240,0:41:27.200

the three-day nanny

0:41:25.839,0:41:29.359

and it's kind of controversial in some

0:41:27.200,0:41:30.000

ways but i i would recommend it to

0:41:29.359,0:41:32.000

anybody

0:41:30.000,0:41:33.440

that basically you do a routine for

0:41:32.000,0:41:35.280

three days and once you've done it for

0:41:33.440,0:41:36.560

three days it kind of takes

0:41:35.280,0:41:39.040

and you might have to refresh those

0:41:36.560,0:41:42.720

three days as as you go on but

0:41:39.040,0:41:44.560

it's a psychology thing but um

0:41:42.720,0:41:46.079

yeah routines are set up in three days

0:41:44.560,0:41:46.880

basically so once you've done it three

0:41:46.079,0:41:49.119

times

0:41:46.880,0:41:49.920

that's the routine and we'll do that so

0:41:49.119,0:41:53.280

we did that

0:41:49.920,0:41:54.800

for like sleep training and we didn't

0:41:53.280,0:41:56.720

do the whole bringing the baby into our

0:41:54.800,0:41:57.839

bed our kids have never slept in our

0:41:56.720,0:42:00.839

beds with us

0:41:57.839,0:42:01.839

um and that there's very they were

0:42:00.839,0:42:03.920

getting a

0:42:01.839,0:42:06.160

different school of thought here like

0:42:03.920,0:42:08.960

this we could have

0:42:06.160,0:42:10.560

an entire season just on the different

0:42:08.960,0:42:11.280

sides of parenting and the different

0:42:10.560,0:42:14.319

nurtures

0:42:11.280,0:42:15.440

and and we chose to go that way um and

0:42:14.319,0:42:18.319

it's worked for us

0:42:15.440,0:42:19.920

so that's all i can say on that but we

0:42:18.319,0:42:22.000

do get a good night's sleep now

0:42:19.920,0:42:24.640

and the kids have always slept well

0:42:22.000,0:42:29.920

because that's what we've chosen to do

0:42:24.640,0:42:31.359

so i can i can only say we've had a good

0:42:29.920,0:42:33.760

well lindsay's seen it work first hand

0:42:31.359,0:42:36.240

ambulance like

0:42:33.760,0:42:38.800

and yeah i can't um comment on they're

0:42:36.240,0:42:42.079

not bringing them into the beds

0:42:38.800,0:42:42.079

you looked a little bit guilty

0:42:42.240,0:42:45.920

um jackson i like have multiple times i

0:42:45.200,0:42:49.520

fell asleep

0:42:45.920,0:42:52.000

on the sofa um

0:42:49.520,0:42:54.160

but he was on the inside and there was a

0:42:52.000,0:42:57.119

pillow between us it was okay

0:42:54.160,0:42:59.680

and when we had we had jackson for was

0:42:57.119,0:43:02.240

it two weeks sorry

0:42:59.680,0:43:03.280

um when you paul went back to work and

0:43:02.240,0:43:06.960

you were

0:43:03.280,0:43:08.880

finishing up work um

0:43:06.960,0:43:10.240

and my husband would take him into bed

0:43:08.880,0:43:12.560

in the morning because he's like it's

0:43:10.240,0:43:14.960

not time to get up here

0:43:12.560,0:43:16.880

and feed his bottle there but like it

0:43:14.960,0:43:19.200

was never a

0:43:16.880,0:43:22.720

a big thing and then marisa she needed

0:43:19.200,0:43:24.880

to be brought into bed a couple of times

0:43:22.720,0:43:26.000

but nothing like you see these people

0:43:24.880,0:43:28.880

that they're 11 year old

0:43:26.000,0:43:29.839

is running another bed you know those

0:43:28.880,0:43:31.280

kids know

0:43:29.839,0:43:33.119

that if they come in for a cuddle in bed

0:43:31.280,0:43:34.480

they're not staying there i'm not saying

0:43:33.119,0:43:35.760

we've not had a cuddle in the morning

0:43:34.480,0:43:41.839

with their kids like

0:43:35.760,0:43:41.839

don't make me happy really

0:43:46.079,0:43:50.400

actually i remember one time that his uh

0:43:48.319,0:43:52.800

jackson came into my bed

0:43:50.400,0:43:54.319

and he went okay anyways i'm going back

0:43:52.800,0:43:56.400

to mine because i think i snored or

0:43:54.319,0:44:01.200

something

0:43:56.400,0:44:02.800

um and that was i was like well

0:44:01.200,0:44:05.599

snoring is good for something

0:44:02.800,0:44:08.640

[Laughter]

0:44:05.599,0:44:12.240

lindsay you've obviously had a very

0:44:08.640,0:44:13.440

pivotal role to play in the upbringing

0:44:12.240,0:44:14.880

of of ryan's kids

0:44:13.440,0:44:17.920

we've spoken to a number of people in

0:44:14.880,0:44:20.319

previous episodes who are

0:44:17.920,0:44:21.760

very much of the mindset that they never

0:44:20.319,0:44:24.319

want to have children that that's

0:44:21.760,0:44:27.200

something that they will never entertain

0:44:24.319,0:44:29.200

some have gone as far as to to to be

0:44:27.200,0:44:32.160

sterilized to prevent themselves

0:44:29.200,0:44:33.760

when you hear stories like that how does

0:44:32.160,0:44:36.400

it make you feel

0:44:33.760,0:44:37.839

i'm very open-minded i mean i don't

0:44:36.400,0:44:39.650

judge anybody for

0:44:37.839,0:44:41.760

their choices and

0:44:39.650,0:44:45.119

[Music]

0:44:41.760,0:44:46.880

i i think this sterilization i think

0:44:45.119,0:44:47.440

ryan told me about this and it kind of

0:44:46.880,0:44:51.000

went

0:44:47.440,0:44:52.800

that's a bit drastic like that's that's

0:44:51.000,0:44:55.599

non-reversal

0:44:52.800,0:44:56.160

and although there is i think there is

0:44:55.599,0:44:59.440

some

0:44:56.160,0:45:01.680

ones you can reverse now but like that's

0:44:59.440,0:45:02.800

that's a big statement like nothing's

0:45:01.680,0:45:06.000

gonna change

0:45:02.800,0:45:07.280

i'm never doing it but then in the back

0:45:06.000,0:45:09.119

of my head i'm like there is other

0:45:07.280,0:45:13.119

options if that does change

0:45:09.119,0:45:14.960

like they could adopt they could

0:45:13.119,0:45:16.640

stuff but we don't know what they've

0:45:14.960,0:45:19.839

been through that's made them

0:45:16.640,0:45:21.599

make that choice you don't know if

0:45:19.839,0:45:23.040

like if you were bad as a child you

0:45:21.599,0:45:24.400

might not want another child to go

0:45:23.040,0:45:26.319

through that so you're not having kids

0:45:24.400,0:45:30.560

0:45:26.319,0:45:31.920

you just i i sometimes call myself

0:45:30.560,0:45:34.560

yeah you don't know what's going on

0:45:31.920,0:45:37.599

somebody's head i sometimes say now i am

0:45:34.560,0:45:41.280

too selfish to have kids even if i could

0:45:37.599,0:45:42.640

because i like going out for a drive i

0:45:41.280,0:45:44.800

0:45:42.640,0:45:47.040

sitting on the sofa and falling asleep

0:45:44.800,0:45:49.920

and not having to worry

0:45:47.040,0:45:51.440

about getting up to look at someday i

0:45:49.920,0:45:52.800

like being able to say do you know what

0:45:51.440,0:45:56.400

i'm going over america

0:45:52.800,0:46:00.400

at the drop of a hat yeah my husband

0:45:56.400,0:46:02.800

likes his sleep way too much um

0:46:00.400,0:46:05.839

so i don't know if he would even survive

0:46:02.800,0:46:09.839

[Laughter]

0:46:05.839,0:46:11.520

i've just well yeah i've just done three

0:46:09.839,0:46:12.160

nights night shift at my work for the

0:46:11.520,0:46:16.319

first time

0:46:12.160,0:46:18.480

ever and it killed me like it's hard

0:46:16.319,0:46:20.960

it's i know i wouldn't build my feet for

0:46:18.480,0:46:24.160

10 hours a day with a baby but

0:46:20.960,0:46:26.560

you might well actually we did

0:46:24.160,0:46:27.359

rock jackson so that that was probably

0:46:26.560,0:46:30.800

true

0:46:27.359,0:46:33.680

and i would not judge anybody for their

0:46:30.800,0:46:33.680

decisions i just

0:46:34.079,0:46:37.200

it would scare me to know that it was so

0:46:36.079,0:46:40.839

permanent

0:46:37.200,0:46:42.400

a few of the things that you said there

0:46:40.839,0:46:44.319

0:46:42.400,0:46:47.440

have resonated with me and with some of

0:46:44.319,0:46:49.680

our previous guests who spoke about

0:46:47.440,0:46:51.599

enjoying what they have just now being

0:46:49.680,0:46:54.560

happy where they are just now and

0:46:51.599,0:46:56.000

sometimes that's enough for them to say

0:46:54.560,0:46:58.319

okay i'm gonna have the surgery i'm

0:46:56.000,0:47:01.119

gonna i'm gonna sterilize myself because

0:46:58.319,0:47:01.920

i'm happy with my life i don't want to

0:47:01.119,0:47:04.720

have the

0:47:01.920,0:47:05.599

risk if that's the right word of that

0:47:04.720,0:47:06.960

changing

0:47:05.599,0:47:09.200

and you said you said you think you

0:47:06.960,0:47:12.640

might be too selfish now to have kids

0:47:09.200,0:47:13.280

how do you know when how do you decide

0:47:12.640,0:47:15.839

right okay

0:47:13.280,0:47:17.760

i'm i'm gonna if the right word is give

0:47:15.839,0:47:20.240

up or stop trying

0:47:17.760,0:47:21.839

i don't i don't think you ever give up

0:47:20.240,0:47:24.160

or stop trying

0:47:21.839,0:47:26.160

in the back of my head even though at

0:47:24.160,0:47:29.760

this moment in time it's 100

0:47:26.160,0:47:31.760

not going to happen for me right now

0:47:29.760,0:47:33.839

you still have that little bit in the

0:47:31.760,0:47:37.200

back your head that thinks

0:47:33.839,0:47:40.240

yeah one day maybe um

0:47:37.200,0:47:41.680

and as much as i say i'm still selfish i

0:47:40.240,0:47:44.319

went to inverness

0:47:41.680,0:47:46.640

thank you to my brother and paula for um

0:47:44.319,0:47:49.680

a belated anniversary

0:47:46.640,0:47:53.040

and present and we went up to

0:47:49.680,0:47:54.960

the fairy garden and and we got so

0:47:53.040,0:47:55.440

excited about finding these fairies and

0:47:54.960,0:47:57.839

stuff

0:47:55.440,0:47:59.200

and and i was like i'd love to come back

0:47:57.839,0:48:01.599

here with the kids and

0:47:59.200,0:48:02.720

sam was like well they've just been

0:48:01.599,0:48:03.920

they've seen it

0:48:02.720,0:48:06.960

so what's your problem and i was like

0:48:03.920,0:48:09.599

yeah but i wasn't with them oh okay

0:48:06.960,0:48:11.839

share your experience yes yeah so and

0:48:09.599,0:48:14.960

then i showed them pictures of my

0:48:11.839,0:48:17.440

i was tripping we never saw that

0:48:14.960,0:48:18.319

we never saw that like and then this big

0:48:17.440,0:48:20.400

log that i

0:48:18.319,0:48:21.920

had to do the dirty dance and

0:48:20.400,0:48:25.839

reenactment on

0:48:21.920,0:48:28.960

well i tried my version of that

0:48:25.839,0:48:30.800

a modified version of the dirty dancer i

0:48:28.960,0:48:33.119

set up first enough

0:48:30.800,0:48:34.000

and like they would never have thought

0:48:33.119,0:48:36.880

of that on that

0:48:34.000,0:48:38.400

log but we were both in the same place

0:48:36.880,0:48:39.200

at different times and did different

0:48:38.400,0:48:41.040

things

0:48:39.200,0:48:42.240

and i said that i was like you're not

0:48:41.040,0:48:43.760

seeing it from

0:48:42.240,0:48:45.599

there we could have had a totally

0:48:43.760,0:48:47.280

different experience

0:48:45.599,0:48:48.640

and we always say we want to go to

0:48:47.280,0:48:52.000

america

0:48:48.640,0:48:52.559

all together because i've been to magic

0:48:52.000,0:48:54.960

kingdom

0:48:52.559,0:48:55.760

and i've sat there and been a child for

0:48:54.960,0:48:58.160

a day

0:48:55.760,0:48:59.680

i've been again and done the adult side

0:48:58.160,0:49:01.599

of it

0:48:59.680,0:49:03.520

i don't think it would be the same as

0:49:01.599,0:49:05.119

any of those experiences to then do it

0:49:03.520,0:49:07.200

again with the kids

0:49:05.119,0:49:08.400

i think it's a totally different so you

0:49:07.200,0:49:10.800

just i think you have to get that in

0:49:08.400,0:49:13.599

your mind that

0:49:10.800,0:49:14.720

having kids may stop you doing some

0:49:13.599,0:49:17.440

things

0:49:14.720,0:49:20.240

but it will change the experience

0:49:17.440,0:49:22.720

sometimes for the better sometimes not

0:49:20.240,0:49:24.480

i couldn't imagine doing disneyland with

0:49:22.720,0:49:25.839

a buggy but

0:49:24.480,0:49:28.160

but it can be done we've all seen it

0:49:25.839,0:49:30.559

happening it can yes there's a buggy

0:49:28.160,0:49:33.040

there's a buggy park i mean yeah it's

0:49:30.559,0:49:34.319

been thought of

0:49:33.040,0:49:36.559

we didn't want to do it with the buggy

0:49:34.319,0:49:37.520

we were very aware of how busy these

0:49:36.559,0:49:40.880

places get

0:49:37.520,0:49:43.760

yeah but we still did it we were kind

0:49:40.880,0:49:45.599

of different though aren't we we our mum

0:49:43.760,0:49:47.440

lives there so we have

0:49:45.599,0:49:49.760

more opportunities to go and do stuff

0:49:47.440,0:49:51.440

like that but taking away the park side

0:49:49.760,0:49:54.079

of it i'd love to go in my mum's pool

0:49:51.440,0:49:57.440

with the kids and

0:49:54.079,0:49:59.119

have that fun but when i'm on my own i

0:49:57.440,0:50:01.280

love the ladies and then until

0:49:59.119,0:50:02.960

yeah and i totally was a glass of

0:50:01.280,0:50:03.760

something that would not be there if the

0:50:02.960,0:50:07.440

kids were there

0:50:03.760,0:50:10.839

it's it is different um

0:50:07.440,0:50:12.000

it changes but i would say that it's

0:50:10.839,0:50:14.170

adaptable

0:50:12.000,0:50:16.240

if you've got a good babysitter yeah

0:50:14.170,0:50:19.839

[Laughter]

0:50:16.240,0:50:19.839

where did polar go first yes

0:50:20.079,0:50:22.960

new year i can't remember

0:50:24.240,0:50:27.839

it doesn't know

0:50:29.839,0:50:32.880

a four-year-old and a two-year-old and

0:50:32.559,0:50:35.760

you

0:50:32.880,0:50:37.359

they still managed to go to new york for

0:50:35.760,0:50:39.200

police 30th

0:50:37.359,0:50:41.680

so if you've got that support network

0:50:39.200,0:50:43.680

you don't have to give anything up

0:50:41.680,0:50:44.800

you have to change the dates and stuff

0:50:43.680,0:50:47.359

but yeah

0:50:44.800,0:50:48.160

yeah you make compromises where they

0:50:47.359,0:50:50.480

need to be made

0:50:48.160,0:50:51.359

and you decide when and where you have

0:50:50.480,0:50:54.319

to do that

0:50:51.359,0:50:55.200

um different things you have to take on

0:50:54.319,0:50:56.960

different

0:50:55.200,0:50:59.680

considerations when you've got kids but

0:50:56.960,0:51:01.440

that's that's the same way everybody um

0:50:59.680,0:51:03.440

it might not be children that's the fact

0:51:01.440,0:51:05.280

it could be money it could be

0:51:03.440,0:51:06.480

the way you live it could be it could be

0:51:05.280,0:51:08.319

anything like there could be anything

0:51:06.480,0:51:10.800

who's gonna feed the cat

0:51:08.319,0:51:12.400

yeah exactly like oh i've got a dog you

0:51:10.800,0:51:13.839

know i think any other responsibility

0:51:12.400,0:51:14.880

can get in the way of a decision-making

0:51:13.839,0:51:18.640

process

0:51:14.880,0:51:21.040

so i don't think kids for us have been

0:51:18.640,0:51:22.480

a hindrance because we've had that like

0:51:21.040,0:51:25.040

obviously we can't

0:51:22.480,0:51:26.720

do things on a whim at the same time but

0:51:25.040,0:51:30.640

we can take the kids with us

0:51:26.720,0:51:32.319

so um and we actually like

0:51:30.640,0:51:33.839

if you didn't have kids you could do

0:51:32.319,0:51:36.960

things on a whim anyway

0:51:33.839,0:51:41.359

so well not right now no

0:51:36.960,0:51:43.839

no no mine is if you take the kids away

0:51:41.359,0:51:46.559

it's not you have to plan things paula

0:51:43.839,0:51:51.040

still likes our plans

0:51:46.559,0:51:53.200

probably not so much yeah

0:51:51.040,0:51:55.680

if you take away the kids that wouldn't

0:51:53.200,0:51:57.280

really have changed that much of that

0:51:55.680,0:51:59.440

and i wish i could be as organized as

0:51:57.280,0:52:01.760

paula i love it but

0:51:59.440,0:52:02.640

just not i'm not that person no i could

0:52:01.760,0:52:05.440

write a list

0:52:02.640,0:52:06.800

of lists and then do another list and

0:52:05.440,0:52:09.119

then ignore them

0:52:06.800,0:52:10.079

i close the book and that is it yeah

0:52:09.119,0:52:13.359

yeah

0:52:10.079,0:52:15.359

and so i don't think

0:52:13.359,0:52:16.880

and the children would have stopped that

0:52:15.359,0:52:18.319

but

0:52:16.880,0:52:20.000

i think you've got to do more right

0:52:18.319,0:52:22.000

because you've got the kids as an excuse

0:52:20.000,0:52:24.880

i mean who goes trampolining

0:52:22.000,0:52:26.720

or a soft play area where you're not

0:52:24.880,0:52:29.200

really meant to be in there but

0:52:26.720,0:52:31.040

you've got a child so it's okay i can't

0:52:29.200,0:52:33.040

tell you how much i wish

0:52:31.040,0:52:36.240

i was small enough to still be able to

0:52:33.040,0:52:36.240

go into like a ball pool

0:52:36.640,0:52:42.079

jackson yeah it's just not acceptable

0:52:42.960,0:52:50.319

um the the thing is i took jackson to

0:52:46.319,0:52:52.480

a local uh i don't want to name it but

0:52:50.319,0:52:53.359

yeah um soft play area and we used to go

0:52:52.480,0:52:54.960

every tuesday

0:52:53.359,0:52:56.800

so they started getting to know that we

0:52:54.960,0:52:57.280

would be there like oh hi yeah how you

0:52:56.800,0:52:59.119

doing

0:52:57.280,0:53:00.400

like so and i would take him out

0:52:59.119,0:53:02.160

obviously he was just little so

0:53:00.400,0:53:03.359

he we would i would take him in and go

0:53:02.160,0:53:05.040

in with him and we'd sit in the ball

0:53:03.359,0:53:05.520

pool together and the whole thing was

0:53:05.040,0:53:08.720

great

0:53:05.520,0:53:11.280

like i would not change that experience

0:53:08.720,0:53:15.680

it got to the point where on a tuesday

0:53:11.280,0:53:16.640

there'd be like five adults and one baby

0:53:15.680,0:53:19.040

we're all sitting around the table

0:53:16.640,0:53:20.640

having that becomes an excuse

0:53:19.040,0:53:23.119

yeah and they're like who's taking them

0:53:20.640,0:53:24.720

in today

0:53:23.119,0:53:26.079

who wants to go through the big rollers

0:53:24.720,0:53:28.400

like lindsay's like i'm gonna go through

0:53:26.079,0:53:32.480

i want to like squeeze myself

0:53:28.400,0:53:32.480

thank you um

0:53:33.839,0:53:38.400

yeah i was um able to use it as a

0:53:37.040,0:53:39.920

an example of whether or not i was

0:53:38.400,0:53:40.839

putting on weight if i could still get

0:53:39.920,0:53:44.000

through the

0:53:40.839,0:53:45.520

roller i'm like oh uh i'm gonna need to

0:53:44.000,0:53:46.720

to really manage my weight a bit better

0:53:45.520,0:53:47.520

because i can't get through the rollers

0:53:46.720,0:53:49.119

anymore

0:53:47.520,0:53:51.680

but do you know if you'd have gone there

0:53:49.119,0:53:53.040

on your own you wouldn't have done that

0:53:51.680,0:53:54.720

you'd have been like i'm too big to go

0:53:53.040,0:53:56.800

through that walk past it

0:53:54.720,0:53:59.440

that baby's just gone through you have

0:53:56.800,0:53:59.440

no choice

0:54:00.000,0:54:03.839

that's true too oh i know some and they

0:54:02.319,0:54:05.760

don't make it easy

0:54:03.839,0:54:08.800

no you have to go through the rulers to

0:54:05.760,0:54:08.800

be in there with your kids

0:54:09.040,0:54:12.240

or do you stand at the other side

0:54:10.480,0:54:15.520

through the

0:54:12.240,0:54:15.520

day and you're right

0:54:15.599,0:54:19.359

it's the beginning you had to go in you

0:54:18.240,0:54:21.839

had to go in

0:54:19.359,0:54:24.000

so it was good i really enjoyed that so

0:54:21.839,0:54:25.440

though yeah these shared experiences

0:54:24.000,0:54:27.040

it's the same as anything though when

0:54:25.440,0:54:28.000

you tell a story you're like you had to

0:54:27.040,0:54:31.359

be there

0:54:28.000,0:54:32.079

um it's the same thing so if you're all

0:54:31.359,0:54:34.000

invested

0:54:32.079,0:54:35.359

like paula and i are fully invested in

0:54:34.000,0:54:36.960

our kids because

0:54:35.359,0:54:39.040

that's the choice we've made we have our

0:54:36.960,0:54:42.000

kids we're fully invested in them

0:54:39.040,0:54:43.200

and everything every decision making

0:54:42.000,0:54:45.599

process we make

0:54:43.200,0:54:46.960

has them at the core of it how how are

0:54:45.599,0:54:48.079

we going to do that with them or how we

0:54:46.960,0:54:48.960

can do that without them if we're going

0:54:48.079,0:54:51.200

to do it for

0:54:48.960,0:54:52.640

something for ourselves and but they're

0:54:51.200,0:54:54.559

always at the core of it

0:54:52.640,0:54:56.079

so that is our culture now the kids are

0:54:54.559,0:54:57.119

our culture and the the rest of the

0:54:56.079,0:54:59.440

family have to

0:54:57.119,0:55:01.200

have to be on board with that and that's

0:54:59.440,0:55:03.040

the shared experience

0:55:01.200,0:55:04.480

that oh well they've got the kids what

0:55:03.040,0:55:07.839

do they want to do um

0:55:04.480,0:55:09.839

and so a lot of that is

0:55:07.839,0:55:11.119

lindsay either coming in and saying

0:55:09.839,0:55:12.960

would you like me to take the kids for a

0:55:11.119,0:55:14.240

day or would you like me to

0:55:12.960,0:55:15.920

do you want to do something do you want

0:55:14.240,0:55:16.880

to all go somewhere together you know

0:55:15.920,0:55:19.040

and it's

0:55:16.880,0:55:20.559

it's again that support network we're

0:55:19.040,0:55:21.920

very lucky we've got

0:55:20.559,0:55:23.839

people around us that want to be

0:55:21.920,0:55:26.000

involved

0:55:23.839,0:55:27.599

yeah i think we kind of adapted didn't

0:55:26.000,0:55:30.000

we we

0:55:27.599,0:55:30.880

like the kids at the forefront of all

0:55:30.000,0:55:33.440

our minds like

0:55:30.880,0:55:34.960

we know that if we all want to go out

0:55:33.440,0:55:36.400

somewhere brewster's is probably going

0:55:34.960,0:55:38.400

to be the best bet

0:55:36.400,0:55:40.000

because we will get time to eat our food

0:55:38.400,0:55:43.359

while they're in the play pit

0:55:40.000,0:55:43.920

um and the staff there knows all because

0:55:43.359,0:55:46.960

of that

0:55:43.920,0:55:48.720

so it is it's nice and

0:55:46.960,0:55:50.079

i mean when your nephew goes can we go

0:55:48.720,0:55:52.480

with frankie and benny's this time

0:55:50.079,0:55:54.240

because i want some pancakes

0:55:52.480,0:55:55.440

then you know that you've done something

0:55:54.240,0:55:56.720

right that they want to go and have

0:55:55.440,0:56:00.319

breakfast with you

0:55:56.720,0:56:02.799

yeah um and but they're used to that

0:56:00.319,0:56:06.319

they know

0:56:02.799,0:56:08.880

like the places we will go um

0:56:06.319,0:56:11.200

and they're really two really good kids

0:56:08.880,0:56:13.119

for that reason i think

0:56:11.200,0:56:15.119

like they know you know the rules

0:56:13.119,0:56:18.640

they'll bend them but they know them

0:56:15.119,0:56:22.000

just like a good any good adult right

0:56:18.640,0:56:22.000

exactly i know the rules

0:56:22.559,0:56:26.079

lindsay thank you so much for covering

0:56:24.799,0:56:26.880

for joining us it's been great to have

0:56:26.079,0:56:29.839

your

0:56:26.880,0:56:32.559

your perspectives i think we went a

0:56:29.839,0:56:35.920

little off talking excellent

0:56:32.559,0:56:37.839

that's the way it always goes hi this is

0:56:35.920,0:56:38.640

ryan thanks for checking out life is it

0:56:37.839,0:56:40.319

just me

0:56:38.640,0:56:42.559

don't forget to subscribe wherever you

0:56:40.319,0:56:44.240

get your podcasts and also on youtube

0:56:42.559,0:56:47.280

for the video version

0:56:44.240,0:56:50.319

and come over and check out our website

0:56:47.280,0:56:51.359

which is life is it just dot me for all

0:56:50.319,0:56:54.240

our latest info

0:56:51.359,0:56:59.119

and updates and thanks again we'll see

0:56:54.240,0:57:01.200

you soon

0:56:59.119,0:57:01.200

you

...more

View all episodes

By Paul Hope & Ryan Rocks

January 26, 2021

I Conceive But Can't Carry Children

56 minutes

0:00:00.000,0:00:06.799

you have to have a bmi of under 35

0:00:03.840,0:00:08.320

now i struggle to lose weight but i

0:00:06.799,0:00:11.840

pushed and pushed and i got

0:00:08.320,0:00:12.719

myself down to 32.5 i went up to the

0:00:11.840,0:00:14.920

hospital

0:00:12.719,0:00:17.400

and they told me that the guidelines had

0:00:14.920,0:00:18.500

changed

0:00:17.400,0:00:23.680

[Applause]

0:00:18.500,0:00:26.160

[Music]

0:00:23.680,0:00:28.240

hi welcome to the show this is is it

0:00:26.160,0:00:30.400

just me the podcast which

0:00:28.240,0:00:31.840

you don't usually have me stop so that's

0:00:30.400,0:00:34.480

a bit weird for a start

0:00:31.840,0:00:34.880

and the reason why i've it is weird that

0:00:34.480,0:00:37.200

i'm

0:00:34.880,0:00:37.920

like taking over hosting g's ha ha this

0:00:37.200,0:00:38.250

is my show

0:00:37.920,0:00:40.960

i'm off

0:00:38.250,0:00:42.320

[Laughter]

0:00:40.960,0:00:44.079

so paul and i are with you again as

0:00:42.320,0:00:44.960

always and the reason why this one is a

0:00:44.079,0:00:48.559

little bit different

0:00:44.960,0:00:51.199

is that our guest is family

0:00:48.559,0:00:53.039

so that's always a bit weird right

0:00:51.199,0:00:54.640

definite first time for everything

0:00:53.039,0:00:56.320

there is a first time for everything so

0:00:54.640,0:00:59.039

we've done a few episodes now

0:00:56.320,0:01:00.719

based on um what factors and

0:00:59.039,0:01:03.280

considerations you have to make

0:01:00.719,0:01:04.479

in order to have children whether you're

0:01:03.280,0:01:05.760

going to have children or not have

0:01:04.479,0:01:07.680

children

0:01:05.760,0:01:09.680

and the choices and the considerations

0:01:07.680,0:01:11.760

that go hand in hand with that now

0:01:09.680,0:01:12.880

we're trying to cover kind of mundane

0:01:11.760,0:01:14.560

things or

0:01:12.880,0:01:16.240

things that are normal you know real

0:01:14.560,0:01:18.400

life real people

0:01:16.240,0:01:21.119

and the reason why we think this is

0:01:18.400,0:01:23.840

really interesting is because people

0:01:21.119,0:01:24.720

don't really talk about it openly as

0:01:23.840,0:01:26.799

much as

0:01:24.720,0:01:29.280

you would think they would since this is

0:01:26.799,0:01:30.960

meant to be so normal and so mundane

0:01:29.280,0:01:32.799

um and we found some really really

0:01:30.960,0:01:34.320

interesting people up till now

0:01:32.799,0:01:37.280

and unfortunately now all we're left

0:01:34.320,0:01:37.280

with is my sister

0:01:37.680,0:01:42.720

thanks for watching

0:01:40.120,0:01:45.439

[Laughter]

0:01:42.720,0:01:47.360

i know so my sister has some unique

0:01:45.439,0:01:50.560

insight on this this is lindsay

0:01:47.360,0:01:52.159

she's with us today and she has a unique

0:01:50.560,0:01:55.040

insight on this because it's

0:01:52.159,0:01:56.560

um the other side of the coin to what

0:01:55.040,0:01:59.040

the other episodes have

0:01:56.560,0:02:00.719

been looking at and we thought that it

0:01:59.040,0:02:01.920

was good to explore kind of different

0:02:00.719,0:02:03.920

angles different avenues

0:02:01.920,0:02:07.040

and and get kind of a rounded picture

0:02:03.920,0:02:08.399

for the entire season so we're probably

0:02:07.040,0:02:11.360

paul and i have discussed it and we're

0:02:08.399,0:02:14.000

hoping that it's not going to be

0:02:11.360,0:02:15.920

um a one-sided thing and that we might

0:02:14.000,0:02:18.400

find another couple of people who can

0:02:15.920,0:02:20.080

kind of flesh out the other side of the

0:02:18.400,0:02:23.920

the conversation

0:02:20.080,0:02:26.239

so lindsay hello i'm sorry i've already

0:02:23.920,0:02:27.680

already made fun of you in the first in

0:02:26.239,0:02:29.200

the intro which is

0:02:27.680,0:02:30.640

which is mean so i'm sorry but i

0:02:29.200,0:02:33.360

wouldn't usually do that to a guests i

0:02:30.640,0:02:35.040

know i'm sorry i apologize already

0:02:33.360,0:02:36.239

it's what happens when it's familiar you

0:02:35.040,0:02:37.920

can get you can get away with that have

0:02:36.239,0:02:38.720

you noticed i haven't said anything mean

0:02:37.920,0:02:40.879

because

0:02:38.720,0:02:43.440

that's not something that's going to end

0:02:40.879,0:02:43.440

well for me

0:02:43.680,0:02:48.160

no what have you got to say this mean i

0:02:46.319,0:02:51.280

could say things about you but i would

0:02:48.160,0:02:53.440

i won't do that i've got a bad

0:02:51.280,0:02:54.400

bad good cup going on here then yes you

0:02:53.440,0:02:57.440

do you do

0:02:54.400,0:03:02.879

once you tell us about yourself

0:02:57.440,0:03:07.840

um um a 33 year old married woman

0:03:02.879,0:03:11.680

and a busy job

0:03:07.840,0:03:12.720

a small family um i don't know what else

0:03:11.680,0:03:16.480

to tell you

0:03:12.720,0:03:19.519

what do you do i'm i am a manager

0:03:16.480,0:03:22.480

of a retail store

0:03:19.519,0:03:23.360

okay and we're here to talk to you

0:03:22.480,0:03:27.760

because

0:03:23.360,0:03:27.760

you really want kids is that fair to say

0:03:28.159,0:03:35.440

yes um

0:03:31.760,0:03:39.920

i'd say now i i don't really

0:03:35.440,0:03:42.159

want as much as i did and but yes

0:03:39.920,0:03:43.200

yeah just to put into context isn't it

0:03:42.159,0:03:45.519

polar

0:03:43.200,0:03:47.120

the reason why that has now changed is

0:03:45.519,0:03:49.519

because it's been such a long time

0:03:47.120,0:03:51.200

as uh lindsay's wanting children for a

0:03:49.519,0:03:54.640

long long time

0:03:51.200,0:03:57.120

and has been kind of unable due to

0:03:54.640,0:03:58.879

medical and other kind of things that

0:03:57.120,0:04:02.159

have been going on in her life

0:03:58.879,0:04:03.519

and that's the kind of things we want to

0:04:02.159,0:04:05.519

get into today lindsay is

0:04:03.519,0:04:07.040

could you explain just some of the

0:04:05.519,0:04:08.959

medical reasons

0:04:07.040,0:04:11.840

that have prevented you and some of the

0:04:08.959,0:04:14.000

things that the doctors have said to you

0:04:11.840,0:04:15.519

um that you would have to do in order to

0:04:14.000,0:04:18.320

make

0:04:15.519,0:04:19.519

um for them to help you with pregnancy

0:04:18.320,0:04:21.680

yep

0:04:19.519,0:04:23.199

um so i have no problem in getting

0:04:21.680,0:04:26.840

pregnant

0:04:23.199,0:04:30.560

and pretty easy in that department

0:04:26.840,0:04:34.639

and the carrying the child

0:04:30.560,0:04:34.639

because i have something called

0:04:35.680,0:04:44.400

now i need to get this right um

0:04:40.639,0:04:44.400

i can't even remember what's cold now

0:04:46.000,0:04:50.720

i have a blood disorder anyway okay and

0:04:48.800,0:04:53.199

it means that my blood doesn't clot the

0:04:50.720,0:04:57.280

way as normal people do

0:04:53.199,0:05:00.479

and so when the the

0:04:57.280,0:05:02.560

egg attaches to the wall the wall then

0:05:00.479,0:05:06.720

breaks down

0:05:02.560,0:05:11.280

because it can't gel properly

0:05:06.720,0:05:12.800

and there is ways to stop that happening

0:05:11.280,0:05:15.840

but you need to be able to see a

0:05:12.800,0:05:18.720

heartbeat for the fetus before you can

0:05:15.840,0:05:21.039

get the injection you need to stop that

0:05:18.720,0:05:24.320

i can never get that far

0:05:21.039,0:05:26.320

and the one time i did and we were all

0:05:24.320,0:05:29.680

excited and then i

0:05:26.320,0:05:31.600

actually lost two days before the

0:05:29.680,0:05:35.039

appointment

0:05:31.600,0:05:37.199

um so

0:05:35.039,0:05:38.160

that is one of their shoes they also say

0:05:37.199,0:05:42.800

i'm overweight

0:05:38.160,0:05:47.120

which i am but um i think they use that

0:05:42.800,0:05:50.400

very widely for a lot of issues um

0:05:47.120,0:05:53.759

and just in general

0:05:50.400,0:05:55.520

i've got diabetes and

0:05:53.759,0:05:57.360

so that would cause a lot of issues as

0:05:55.520,0:06:01.440

well

0:05:57.360,0:06:02.960

i've also got a liver disorder um

0:06:01.440,0:06:05.600

it doesn't really cause me any day to

0:06:02.960,0:06:07.600

day issues but if i was to fall pregnant

0:06:05.600,0:06:11.280

again and carry full term

0:06:07.600,0:06:15.680

i could have something life threatening

0:06:11.280,0:06:18.319

and so it now it comes down to

0:06:15.680,0:06:18.319

is it worth

0:06:19.120,0:06:24.000

having a baby for my husband to then be

0:06:21.360,0:06:25.759

a single father kind of thing

0:06:24.000,0:06:27.759

to ask that how do you how do you weigh

0:06:25.759,0:06:30.080

up that balance

0:06:27.759,0:06:31.440

um for me i would be giving my husband

0:06:30.080,0:06:35.520

something that

0:06:31.440,0:06:39.120

i think he deserves and and naturally

0:06:35.520,0:06:39.120

wants and

0:06:39.199,0:06:45.840

but is it fair on that child to

0:06:42.319,0:06:45.840

then have no mother

0:06:46.840,0:06:53.520

and my husband is a very

0:06:50.400,0:06:55.840

divine muslim well

0:06:53.520,0:06:56.720

yeah it's a few reasons probably not the

0:06:55.840,0:07:00.080

words

0:06:56.720,0:07:03.919

yeah maybe not as devout as most people

0:07:00.080,0:07:06.319

in the uk are about their religions

0:07:03.919,0:07:08.639

yeah it doesn't eat pork it that way

0:07:06.319,0:07:10.240

okay um

0:07:08.639,0:07:10.610

and is that as bad as different as it

0:07:10.240,0:07:12.639

gets

0:07:10.610,0:07:16.960

[Laughter]

0:07:12.639,0:07:16.960

it is right there you go we've

0:07:18.960,0:07:24.960

coming from that culture it's all about

0:07:22.400,0:07:28.840

big families and family

0:07:24.960,0:07:30.479

and so that makes it a lot harder for

0:07:28.840,0:07:32.800

him

0:07:30.479,0:07:36.720

i suppose like he's he's not fulfilled

0:07:32.800,0:07:40.240

his duty as the oldest son in his family

0:07:36.720,0:07:45.039

and so i find that hard

0:07:40.240,0:07:47.120

that i've let him down but

0:07:45.039,0:07:48.879

i think he would i don't think he'd cope

0:07:47.120,0:07:52.960

on his own to be honest

0:07:48.879,0:07:52.960

um i've seen him babysit

0:07:53.199,0:08:01.280

um yeah so and he's even said he would

0:07:58.160,0:08:02.639

rather have me than a child so we've

0:08:01.280,0:08:03.840

said the same though i mean obviously

0:08:02.639,0:08:06.479

i've gotten

0:08:03.840,0:08:07.199

an odd invested interest in this with

0:08:06.479,0:08:10.319

you being

0:08:07.199,0:08:13.199

family not just a guest on the show

0:08:10.319,0:08:14.319

so obviously i think the same way i'd

0:08:13.199,0:08:16.879

rather have you around

0:08:14.319,0:08:19.759

than you risk that but also if it was

0:08:16.879,0:08:21.919

possible i would wish that for you

0:08:19.759,0:08:23.039

you know i would i want you guys to have

0:08:21.919,0:08:24.960

everything that you

0:08:23.039,0:08:28.400

you want but i also don't want you to

0:08:24.960,0:08:31.520

risk your life to get it

0:08:28.400,0:08:32.959

so for me it's it's it's hard because

0:08:31.520,0:08:35.760

obviously i'm a bit selfish and i would

0:08:32.959,0:08:38.719

like to keep you around

0:08:35.760,0:08:41.200

thanks of course you've made up for your

0:08:38.719,0:08:44.479

earlier comments i think

0:08:41.200,0:08:44.479

oh i've got a long way ago

0:08:45.120,0:08:48.800

i mean more than i'm nice yeah just

0:08:48.160,0:08:50.000

about

0:08:48.800,0:08:54.640

lindsay i thought it was interesting you

0:08:50.000,0:08:58.399

said that you've let your husband down

0:08:54.640,0:09:02.800

yeah i feel like i've not it's like

0:08:58.399,0:09:03.839

it's like the norm isn't it like a woman

0:09:02.800,0:09:06.640

should get married

0:09:03.839,0:09:06.640

have a baby

0:09:07.279,0:09:13.360

bring up the baby carry on the jeans

0:09:10.560,0:09:15.600

my i feel like i've not given that to my

0:09:13.360,0:09:19.279

husband i've kept something from him

0:09:15.600,0:09:24.399

and he's missing out on something that

0:09:19.279,0:09:27.440

naturally should have um

0:09:24.399,0:09:28.959

and i feel like i he gets a bit

0:09:27.440,0:09:30.560

i don't think he does get embarrassed

0:09:28.959,0:09:32.959

but i think

0:09:30.560,0:09:33.920

there's got to be something he feels

0:09:32.959,0:09:35.839

when all his

0:09:33.920,0:09:37.360

cousins his sisters his brothers are

0:09:35.839,0:09:40.640

having babies

0:09:37.360,0:09:43.920

and we're the ones that don't so

0:09:40.640,0:09:46.399

i feel like i've i've made that happen

0:09:43.920,0:09:46.399

for him

0:09:46.720,0:09:49.600

does he know you feel this way if you

0:09:48.399,0:09:50.720

shared what you've just shared with us

0:09:49.600,0:09:53.839

with him

0:09:50.720,0:09:57.920

yep multiple times

0:09:53.839,0:10:01.279

how does he respond that

0:09:57.920,0:10:04.399

in his eyes he has multiple children

0:10:01.279,0:10:07.360

he has three nephews in america

0:10:04.399,0:10:08.320

two nephews in pakistan he's got a

0:10:07.360,0:10:10.240

nephew here

0:10:08.320,0:10:11.680

and he's got a niece here who's heavily

0:10:10.240,0:10:15.120

involved with

0:10:11.680,0:10:16.839

um to him he's got the world he doesn't

0:10:15.120,0:10:21.519

need to then

0:10:16.839,0:10:24.560

sacrifice what could be fatal for me

0:10:21.519,0:10:26.399

to have another baby and

0:10:24.560,0:10:28.240

when he feels blessed to have all these

0:10:26.399,0:10:31.680

already

0:10:28.240,0:10:32.720

and i also think when he babysits for

0:10:31.680,0:10:35.600

overnight

0:10:32.720,0:10:36.959

and he he gets his own time back i think

0:10:35.600,0:10:40.000

he sometimes thinks well

0:10:36.959,0:10:44.079

thank god i've got that this is

0:10:40.000,0:10:44.079

is he like dodged a bullet there

0:10:44.320,0:10:47.760

the fact that you can come in mid

0:10:46.079,0:10:49.680

babysitting and they're all sleeping on

0:10:47.760,0:10:52.880

the couch

0:10:49.680,0:10:54.240

um i think that says it all really

0:10:52.880,0:10:55.839

that's that's a kind of sign of

0:10:54.240,0:10:57.440

parenting generally though i mean there

0:10:55.839,0:10:58.839

is times where it's just absolutely

0:10:57.440,0:11:01.839

exhausting

0:10:58.839,0:11:05.040

um we obviously

0:11:01.839,0:11:07.200

the the dynamic we have is that you you

0:11:05.040,0:11:10.000

are what i expected to be in this whole

0:11:07.200,0:11:12.320

scenario as being the cool auntie

0:11:10.000,0:11:13.920

um i expected to be the cool uncle and

0:11:12.320,0:11:15.680

you have all the kids and me come in and

0:11:13.920,0:11:16.399

be like oh yeah i'll wind up your kids

0:11:15.680,0:11:19.440

and leave

0:11:16.399,0:11:21.360

um and now it feels like that that's

0:11:19.440,0:11:22.640

kind of the tables have turned slightly

0:11:21.360,0:11:24.480

now you complain about people doing that

0:11:22.640,0:11:28.330

to your kids i i

0:11:24.480,0:11:30.320

specifically lindsey and hassan um

0:11:28.330,0:11:33.040

[Laughter]

0:11:30.320,0:11:33.920

i am like the third parent i am not that

0:11:33.040,0:11:37.040

bad

0:11:33.920,0:11:40.399

hassan however will come in and play

0:11:37.040,0:11:42.800

play tickle time 10 minutes before beds

0:11:40.399,0:11:42.800

and

0:11:42.940,0:11:47.290

[Laughter]

0:11:52.639,0:11:56.959

how far along lindsay numbers wise do

0:11:55.200,0:12:00.079

you need to be you spoke about

0:11:56.959,0:12:02.079

um needing to be able to detect the

0:12:00.079,0:12:05.600

heartbeat before

0:12:02.079,0:12:08.800

being given daily over eight weeks

0:12:05.600,0:12:11.440

okay um normal for

0:12:08.800,0:12:13.200

most people it's um 12 weeks is when you

0:12:11.440,0:12:15.360

go for your first scan

0:12:13.200,0:12:18.160

and as soon as i find out i'm pregnant i

0:12:15.360,0:12:21.600

have to get in contact and we have to

0:12:18.160,0:12:23.600

go through all these different um

0:12:21.600,0:12:25.120

questions and then they decide when they

0:12:23.600,0:12:28.320

get me in

0:12:25.120,0:12:32.000

when i moved to fort valley

0:12:28.320,0:12:35.040

um they basically said as soon as you

0:12:32.000,0:12:38.160

get a pregnancy test coming

0:12:35.040,0:12:40.560

um fife however

0:12:38.160,0:12:43.200

told me that i would have to go through

0:12:40.560,0:12:44.800

the normal procedures of a pregnancy

0:12:43.200,0:12:46.959

wait for the midwife wait for the

0:12:44.800,0:12:50.079

letters everything like that

0:12:46.959,0:12:54.079

so i think moving to for family may have

0:12:50.079,0:12:54.079

been a bit late and

0:12:54.399,0:12:57.839

and what they've offered could have been

0:12:56.720,0:13:00.160

a lot better

0:12:57.839,0:13:01.120

earlier on but we've spoke about this

0:13:00.160,0:13:03.040

before paul and i

0:13:01.120,0:13:05.040

and on different shows as well about

0:13:03.040,0:13:08.160

this kind of postcode lottery

0:13:05.040,0:13:10.880

for oh yeah definitely for medical help

0:13:08.160,0:13:12.079

um even now listening to that saying oh

0:13:10.880,0:13:14.240

you've kind of you feel like you've

0:13:12.079,0:13:17.600

stepped up and upgraded that medical

0:13:14.240,0:13:20.079

can access and maybe it's maybe

0:13:17.600,0:13:22.560

it's been a bit late for you um we've

0:13:20.079,0:13:26.079

been speaking to other people in america

0:13:22.560,0:13:28.000

our more recent guests have been

0:13:26.079,0:13:31.040

our previous guests have have all been

0:13:28.000,0:13:33.040

from america and their access to medical

0:13:31.040,0:13:35.120

things is completely different it seems

0:13:33.040,0:13:37.120

like they have

0:13:35.120,0:13:39.040

a different support system completely

0:13:37.120,0:13:41.279

altogether and

0:13:39.040,0:13:42.320

a lot more kind of hand holding and help

0:13:41.279,0:13:43.920

and i don't know if that's because of

0:13:42.320,0:13:46.639

the way their system's paid for

0:13:43.920,0:13:47.440

or just the culture in the country or

0:13:46.639,0:13:49.440

what it is

0:13:47.440,0:13:51.519

but it feels like we've spoken to people

0:13:49.440,0:13:53.760

who have had that access to things

0:13:51.519,0:13:54.639

that possibly you would never have had

0:13:53.760,0:13:57.360

access to

0:13:54.639,0:13:57.680

and that i think you can go over and get

0:13:57.360,0:14:00.959

0:13:57.680,0:14:02.560

ivf on your lunch or something like

0:14:00.959,0:14:04.079

it's incredible the difference over

0:14:02.560,0:14:05.440

there

0:14:04.079,0:14:07.760

totally different from from your

0:14:05.440,0:14:10.880

experience here in scotland

0:14:07.760,0:14:12.560

yeah so i got off i got put on the ivf

0:14:10.880,0:14:16.240

referral list

0:14:12.560,0:14:17.199

um and getting on that list is hard

0:14:16.240,0:14:19.839

enough

0:14:17.199,0:14:21.040

but then getting off that list to the

0:14:19.839,0:14:23.839

actual

0:14:21.040,0:14:24.800

procedure is even harder and you have to

0:14:23.839,0:14:29.839

have a bmi

0:14:24.800,0:14:32.399

of the first time it was under

0:14:29.839,0:14:34.959

now i struggle to lose weight because i

0:14:32.399,0:14:34.959

love food

0:14:35.920,0:14:41.279

i also have something called

0:14:37.360,0:14:41.279

lipodystrophy which means i can't

0:14:42.000,0:14:47.440

produce fat on my arms and legs

0:14:45.760,0:14:49.600

and apparently i can't do it on my face

0:14:47.440,0:14:53.920

but i'd beg to differ with that one

0:14:49.600,0:14:56.839

um so it means that

0:14:53.920,0:14:58.000

i find it even harder to lose weight and

0:14:56.839,0:15:01.760

that

0:14:58.000,0:15:02.639

side of it and but i pushed and pushed

0:15:01.760,0:15:06.240

and i got my

0:15:02.639,0:15:07.199

myself down to 32.5 i went up to the

0:15:06.240,0:15:10.800

hospital

0:15:07.199,0:15:12.720

all singing dancing and ready to go

0:15:10.800,0:15:15.040

and they told me that the guidelines had

0:15:12.720,0:15:19.600

changed and you had to be 30 minimum

0:15:15.040,0:15:20.639

wow so as hard as it was to get down to

0:15:19.600,0:15:23.279

that

0:15:20.639,0:15:24.839

i i kind of just gave up i was like it's

0:15:23.279,0:15:26.399

not happening

0:15:24.839,0:15:28.800

yeah time you go they change the goal

0:15:26.399,0:15:31.839

posts how are you meant to win this game

0:15:28.800,0:15:33.360

yes i understand can you remember how

0:15:31.839,0:15:35.040

you felt when you when you were told

0:15:33.360,0:15:37.360

when you went and as you say

0:15:35.040,0:15:39.199

ecstatic elated i imagine having reached

0:15:37.360,0:15:42.639

this target to be told oh by the way the

0:15:39.199,0:15:45.759

target's now 2.5 lower i think i maybe

0:15:42.639,0:15:45.759

went for the mcdonald's

0:15:48.480,0:15:51.759

probably other fast foods are available

0:15:51.199,0:15:54.959

yeah

0:15:51.759,0:15:57.120

i probably went to somewhere very

0:15:54.959,0:15:58.240

unlike what i'd had in the previous

0:15:57.120,0:16:01.759

weeks yeah

0:15:58.240,0:16:05.199

and now to be honest i actually went

0:16:01.759,0:16:07.680

to the gym okay um

0:16:05.199,0:16:09.519

and then realized that even if i i spoke

0:16:07.680,0:16:10.800

to my drum instructor at the time i was

0:16:09.519,0:16:14.000

following this five

0:16:10.800,0:16:15.120

week five days a week very strenuous

0:16:14.000,0:16:18.320

training

0:16:15.120,0:16:19.759

and very strict diet um like

0:16:18.320,0:16:23.199

being sick when you come out of training

0:16:19.759,0:16:24.800

and you've worked that hard and

0:16:23.199,0:16:27.360

i didn't follow it the same as everybody

0:16:24.800,0:16:29.279

else because of diabetes but it did work

0:16:27.360,0:16:31.839

and when i went and spoke to him i broke

0:16:29.279,0:16:35.120

down with my gym instructor and he said

0:16:31.839,0:16:36.639

lindsay you could train and lose loads

0:16:35.120,0:16:39.759

of weight but you could still be up at

0:16:36.639,0:16:41.759

that bmi because muscle weighs

0:16:39.759,0:16:43.680

and stuff frequent these bmis are

0:16:41.759,0:16:47.199

ridiculous

0:16:43.680,0:16:49.199

um so that kind of

0:16:47.199,0:16:50.720

made me think what's the point why am i

0:16:49.199,0:16:54.320

even trying

0:16:50.720,0:16:56.720

um and i think i fell into a hole then

0:16:54.320,0:16:57.839

although the gym had told me to keep

0:16:56.720,0:17:01.040

going i was like no

0:16:57.839,0:17:02.800

what's the point was it was it the lack

0:17:01.040,0:17:04.720

of motivation in your head did you have

0:17:02.800,0:17:05.919

a sort of figure and that kept you going

0:17:04.720,0:17:08.400

throughout the training yeah

0:17:05.919,0:17:10.799

the weight loss i had a goal i had

0:17:08.400,0:17:12.959

something to look forward to

0:17:10.799,0:17:14.880

and then it was just ripped away so far

0:17:12.959,0:17:17.039

well

0:17:14.880,0:17:18.400

i was happy when i wasn't happy but i

0:17:17.039,0:17:22.799

was

0:17:18.400,0:17:25.439

okay being bigger it wasn't a big issue

0:17:22.799,0:17:25.919

um health wise it probably didn't be

0:17:25.439,0:17:28.880

good

0:17:25.919,0:17:30.559

but um it's the back your mind when

0:17:28.880,0:17:33.840

you're

0:17:30.559,0:17:37.039

when you start to feel like that so um

0:17:33.840,0:17:40.400

um yeah

0:17:37.039,0:17:43.600

yeah it's difficult and um

0:17:40.400,0:17:45.600

okay obviously i can see how sad even

0:17:43.600,0:17:46.880

talking about this is making you i know

0:17:45.600,0:17:48.880

you really well so i know

0:17:46.880,0:17:50.240

when your demeanor has changed and even

0:17:48.880,0:17:52.400

from the beginning of this conversation

0:17:50.240,0:17:54.559

i've seen

0:17:52.400,0:17:56.320

bringing this up is painful so thank you

0:17:54.559,0:17:57.840

for sharing it with us because obviously

0:17:56.320,0:18:00.559

like we're not wanting to take a free

0:17:57.840,0:18:03.280

therapy session

0:18:00.559,0:18:04.000

broadcast to the internet broadcast to

0:18:03.280,0:18:06.400

the internet yeah

0:18:04.000,0:18:07.600

if it helps someday soon this is the

0:18:06.400,0:18:09.120

whole class

0:18:07.600,0:18:11.039

yeah that's kind of we spoke about that

0:18:09.120,0:18:11.919

again with a different uh on one of the

0:18:11.039,0:18:14.880

other episodes

0:18:11.919,0:18:16.240

that if we could help or shine a light

0:18:14.880,0:18:18.000

for at least one person

0:18:16.240,0:18:19.760

one other person that listens to this or

0:18:18.000,0:18:23.120

watches this

0:18:19.760,0:18:25.440

then hopefully that has that's the goal

0:18:23.120,0:18:26.559

you know the the some of the things

0:18:25.440,0:18:28.720

we've talked about are

0:18:26.559,0:18:29.919

a little bit serious and a little bit

0:18:28.720,0:18:33.039

serious really serious

0:18:29.919,0:18:36.559

yes and and kind of life

0:18:33.039,0:18:39.039

affecting and very very um

0:18:36.559,0:18:40.400

life-changing for some people and

0:18:39.039,0:18:43.440

especially some of the procedures some

0:18:40.400,0:18:45.520

of the other guests have been through um

0:18:43.440,0:18:48.320

and yours is again the other side of

0:18:45.520,0:18:49.919

that same story whereas

0:18:48.320,0:18:51.679

some of our other guests have not been

0:18:49.919,0:18:54.880

wanting to have children at all

0:18:51.679,0:18:56.240

and you have been wanting all the

0:18:54.880,0:18:58.160

children like you really would

0:18:56.240,0:19:00.880

love to get pregnant and be had all

0:18:58.160,0:19:04.160

these hurdles and obstacles and

0:19:00.880,0:19:08.160

uh it it just it just

0:19:04.160,0:19:12.080

right just really puts into perspective

0:19:08.160,0:19:15.440

how life for everybody is affected and

0:19:12.080,0:19:17.440

it's not just you so

0:19:15.440,0:19:19.600

yeah i think i've remembered did you see

0:19:17.440,0:19:19.600

that

0:19:19.919,0:19:23.840

i think i've wanted well you'll know

0:19:22.160,0:19:24.559

this i've wanted kids since i was like

0:19:23.840,0:19:26.960

10 years

0:19:24.559,0:19:29.120

probably before that when i asked mum

0:19:26.960,0:19:32.480

for baby dolls and

0:19:29.120,0:19:34.320

everything and we used to go to charity

0:19:32.480,0:19:36.000

events and if somebody had a baby stall

0:19:34.320,0:19:38.160

i'd buy every baby

0:19:36.000,0:19:40.160

nutty jumper and like mum can i put that

0:19:38.160,0:19:41.440

in my my bottom drawer

0:19:40.160,0:19:43.120

everybody has a bottom drawer for their

0:19:41.440,0:19:44.480

first house i had a bottom drawer for my

0:19:43.120,0:19:48.480

first baby

0:19:44.480,0:19:50.320

um and

0:19:48.480,0:19:51.760

like when i was at college i was in a

0:19:50.320,0:19:53.760

community care course and you had to

0:19:51.760,0:19:56.160

have the baby overnight

0:19:53.760,0:19:57.520

i asked to be the last one to have it so

0:19:56.160,0:20:00.720

i could have it for a week

0:19:57.520,0:20:02.400

wow um because i was so excited

0:20:00.720,0:20:04.000

like i took it everywhere i had at the

0:20:02.400,0:20:06.960

dinner table there was a lot of family

0:20:04.000,0:20:06.960

arguments over that

0:20:09.360,0:20:12.400

my mom getting up in the middle of the

0:20:10.640,0:20:14.000

night because the keys falling at the

0:20:12.400,0:20:17.440

back and the baby's screaming and i'm

0:20:14.000,0:20:19.919

fast asleep um changed its

0:20:17.440,0:20:22.080

outfits about four times a day i was

0:20:19.919,0:20:25.520

just

0:20:22.080,0:20:27.919

i loved it um see when i had an animal

0:20:25.520,0:20:27.919

baby

0:20:28.720,0:20:32.080

that was the dream at this time

0:20:32.840,0:20:37.200

revolutionary

0:20:35.039,0:20:39.280

so yeah um i went through a few things

0:20:37.200,0:20:41.200

when i was younger though that

0:20:39.280,0:20:42.640

i think everybody said i'd be the first

0:20:41.200,0:20:44.320

person to get married i'd be the first

0:20:42.640,0:20:47.520

person to have a baby

0:20:44.320,0:20:50.880

clearly that was not the case and

0:20:47.520,0:20:52.880

one of my friends had a baby at

0:20:50.880,0:20:54.159

i think she was a week after her 16th

0:20:52.880,0:20:55.600

birthday

0:20:54.159,0:20:57.200

and she was the one that was never

0:20:55.600,0:20:59.120

having a baby

0:20:57.200,0:21:02.799

and so i was like well if you've had one

0:20:59.120,0:21:04.799

it's okay for me to have one now um

0:21:02.799,0:21:06.880

and then i got a job i went to college i

0:21:04.799,0:21:11.120

got my first serious boyfriend

0:21:06.880,0:21:11.120

i actually fell pregnant at

0:21:11.360,0:21:19.440

i'm 15 and

0:21:15.200,0:21:22.559

i went and had um

0:21:19.440,0:21:26.159

the procedure to get rid of it

0:21:22.559,0:21:28.960

i probably wouldn't have carried it full

0:21:26.159,0:21:32.400

term anyway knowing what i know now

0:21:28.960,0:21:35.679

but i sometimes blame myself that that

0:21:32.400,0:21:40.320

is karma for what i did when i was 15.

0:21:35.679,0:21:42.159

um but when you're 15 years old and your

0:21:40.320,0:21:45.039

your boyfriend says it's near the baby

0:21:42.159,0:21:46.480

you kind of like them well

0:21:45.039,0:21:48.960

never going to find another guy in my

0:21:46.480,0:21:52.320

life and

0:21:48.960,0:21:55.600

so i think that's affected me a lot

0:21:52.320,0:21:57.600

and and then from then on i've always

0:21:55.600,0:21:59.600

searched for something just to fill it

0:21:57.600,0:22:02.080

like i had a duck that hung in my car

0:21:59.600,0:22:03.840

that nobody knew what that represented

0:22:02.080,0:22:05.120

that represented this baby that i'd got

0:22:03.840,0:22:07.919

rid of

0:22:05.120,0:22:09.280

and i know no longer have that duck

0:22:07.919,0:22:12.640

because

0:22:09.280,0:22:13.840

it reminds me of what i'm i feel guilty

0:22:12.640,0:22:15.840

about now

0:22:13.840,0:22:17.280

and and that's the last thing i need

0:22:15.840,0:22:20.400

everything else

0:22:17.280,0:22:22.000

and but i do feel that i blame myself

0:22:20.400,0:22:25.039

for that

0:22:22.000,0:22:25.760

it's an interesting um psychological

0:22:25.039,0:22:28.960

point of view

0:22:25.760,0:22:29.840

that you and it's not it's not uncommon

0:22:28.960,0:22:33.280

obviously there are

0:22:29.840,0:22:33.600

these um these uh surrogate babies you

0:22:33.280,0:22:35.120

know

0:22:33.600,0:22:36.720

they're not i don't want to pretend

0:22:35.120,0:22:41.840

babies but like

0:22:36.720,0:22:41.840

them they're almost electronic yeah

0:22:41.919,0:22:46.159

if somebody's lost a baby that they can

0:22:44.000,0:22:49.360

mother this until their

0:22:46.159,0:22:51.280

bereavement is over or you know um

0:22:49.360,0:22:52.799

i've seen those and obviously there's a

0:22:51.280,0:22:55.440

psychological aspect to

0:22:52.799,0:22:56.960

guilt and the way you're feeling and and

0:22:55.440,0:22:59.840

we're not psychologists paul and i

0:22:56.960,0:23:00.400

so we can't really weigh in on on that

0:22:59.840,0:23:03.280

but we do

0:23:00.400,0:23:04.320

find it fascinating the way that

0:23:03.280,0:23:07.679

people's lives

0:23:04.320,0:23:11.120

affects the decision-making process

0:23:07.679,0:23:12.559

and um i mean obviously to hear you say

0:23:11.120,0:23:14.000

that you feel guilty for something you

0:23:12.559,0:23:17.440

did when you were 15.

0:23:14.000,0:23:20.080

i i think as as your brother

0:23:17.440,0:23:22.510

you need to let that go yeah i think i

0:23:20.080,0:23:27.010

did a lot more when i

0:23:22.510,0:23:27.010

[Laughter]

0:23:32.260,0:23:36.660

[Laughter]

0:23:35.120,0:23:38.880

after hours

0:23:36.660,0:23:41.039

[Laughter]

0:23:38.880,0:23:42.159

i do i do remember when we were younger

0:23:41.039,0:23:44.559

and i used to say

0:23:42.159,0:23:45.840

ryan used to say i want to be cool uncle

0:23:44.559,0:23:48.559

ryan

0:23:45.840,0:23:49.679

play with the child and then leave i

0:23:48.559,0:23:52.000

want that role

0:23:49.679,0:23:54.640

and i never thought i'd dream of being

0:23:52.000,0:23:54.640

an auntie

0:23:54.880,0:23:59.679

i always i did always think it would be

0:23:57.200,0:24:03.039

the other way around it was weird

0:23:59.679,0:24:04.080

um but you have a massive involvement

0:24:03.039,0:24:06.720

with our children

0:24:04.080,0:24:08.000

like as much as i possibly could have as

0:24:06.720,0:24:09.520

as an auntie

0:24:08.000,0:24:11.840

without you know encroaching on my own

0:24:09.520,0:24:11.840

marriage

0:24:12.000,0:24:19.520

like hey i i think i'm pretty

0:24:15.039,0:24:21.360

there's a gray line there too

0:24:19.520,0:24:22.559

there's another psychological freudian

0:24:21.360,0:24:24.640

thing that we need to

0:24:22.559,0:24:26.559

probably stay away from on this episode

0:24:24.640,0:24:29.440

but

0:24:26.559,0:24:29.440

no i mean like

0:24:30.000,0:24:33.600

maybe not on the first pregnancy but

0:24:31.919,0:24:37.120

when when marisa was

0:24:33.600,0:24:40.240

being planned shall we say i was very

0:24:37.120,0:24:42.400

much involved in that planning

0:24:40.240,0:24:44.320

you're like not the active i was gonna

0:24:42.400,0:24:47.120

say like can you just clarify exactly

0:24:44.320,0:24:48.480

what you mean by yeah yeah she was

0:24:47.120,0:24:50.559

yeah let's clarify she was not there

0:24:48.480,0:24:54.400

with the video camera there's no

0:24:50.559,0:24:54.400

there's no production involved

0:24:54.559,0:25:00.480

no like i was very involved in the

0:24:57.919,0:25:00.480

the date

0:25:13.600,0:25:18.320

yes she was and i because i was like i

0:25:16.480,0:25:19.120

can't wait to go to america like family

0:25:18.320,0:25:22.000

holiday and

0:25:19.120,0:25:22.640

apollo's like and said maybe maybe not

0:25:22.000,0:25:26.320

do that

0:25:22.640,0:25:27.600

and i was like okay now you need to tell

0:25:26.320,0:25:28.720

me more and she's like okay but nobody

0:25:27.600,0:25:31.919

else knows

0:25:28.720,0:25:32.640

and i'm like what is that and then she

0:25:31.919,0:25:34.080

pulled me in the middle of the

0:25:32.640,0:25:38.880

supermarket and went

0:25:34.080,0:25:38.880

don't plan america i was like yeah

0:25:39.200,0:25:46.720

um so yeah that was my involvement

0:25:42.960,0:25:47.840

jackson i hadn't just clarified no idea

0:25:46.720,0:25:49.760

that was a very

0:25:47.840,0:25:51.440

um i think it was father's day when you

0:25:49.760,0:25:54.640

told us was it not

0:25:51.440,0:25:57.520

for your first year um

0:25:54.640,0:25:59.279

um i don't remember that but i do i mean

0:25:57.520,0:26:00.640

i did remember this all getting together

0:25:59.279,0:26:04.720

at my dad's

0:26:00.640,0:26:08.080

and i had found that i was pregnant

0:26:04.720,0:26:11.360

which i think made it worse at the time

0:26:08.080,0:26:13.200

but not no i mean like

0:26:11.360,0:26:15.760

for your news coming out because it kind

0:26:13.200,0:26:18.799

of like darkened that but for me

0:26:15.760,0:26:21.360

your news took away that

0:26:18.799,0:26:22.960

so um it was it was really good because

0:26:21.360,0:26:24.960

i remember going downstairs and buying

0:26:22.960,0:26:28.480

all these chocolates and

0:26:24.960,0:26:31.440

stuff for getting excited

0:26:28.480,0:26:32.159

i want to ask lindsey because you're

0:26:31.440,0:26:35.279

obviously

0:26:32.159,0:26:39.840

heavily involved in brian's life and

0:26:35.279,0:26:41.919

his wife's life and his kids um

0:26:39.840,0:26:43.120

what's that like for both you and your

0:26:41.919,0:26:46.480

husband

0:26:43.120,0:26:47.760

knowing that you want to have your own

0:26:46.480,0:26:50.480

family

0:26:47.760,0:26:52.559

but there are so many kids to look after

0:26:50.480,0:26:56.400

in other families is that

0:26:52.559,0:26:56.400

how does that feel um

0:26:56.799,0:27:01.120

it's a blessing in disguise because it

0:26:59.200,0:27:02.320

had i think if i didn't have all these

0:27:01.120,0:27:06.080

children

0:27:02.320,0:27:08.240

in my life it would be a lot harder but

0:27:06.080,0:27:09.520

then on the other side it's hard to see

0:27:08.240,0:27:12.080

them

0:27:09.520,0:27:13.600

like pull over the bump and yeah

0:27:12.080,0:27:16.880

preparing and stuff like that

0:27:13.600,0:27:18.880

i want to be doing that

0:27:16.880,0:27:21.760

we looked at adoption but there's so

0:27:18.880,0:27:24.799

many hoops to jump through that as well

0:27:21.760,0:27:26.240

um and career got in the way they wanted

0:27:24.799,0:27:28.720

every saturday

0:27:26.240,0:27:30.000

and for 12 weeks on the run up to

0:27:28.720,0:27:33.200

christmas

0:27:30.000,0:27:36.559

um retail that is not

0:27:33.200,0:27:38.000

gonna happen for anybody um as much as

0:27:36.559,0:27:42.480

my bosses are great that

0:27:38.000,0:27:45.520

no and so we kind of say

0:27:42.480,0:27:46.159

swipe that and we've looked at one doing

0:27:45.520,0:27:49.440

it again

0:27:46.159,0:27:52.559

but it's just the time

0:27:49.440,0:27:55.200

that it'll take for all of this it would

0:27:52.559,0:27:56.640

be worth it in the end it's just

0:27:55.200,0:27:57.919

i don't know where i'd find the time i

0:27:56.640,0:27:59.600

don't even know if i'd have a child in

0:27:57.919,0:28:04.559

it to be honest

0:27:59.600,0:28:07.600

um we've connected now you do that

0:28:04.559,0:28:09.600

yeah you have to don't yes no choice

0:28:07.600,0:28:12.080

yeah ryan spoke about that before

0:28:09.600,0:28:14.159

he spoke about sort of being unsure and

0:28:12.080,0:28:15.600

then you said within about 30 seconds it

0:28:14.159,0:28:16.880

was like well

0:28:15.600,0:28:20.399

i don't have a chance to be unsure

0:28:16.880,0:28:22.240

anymore exactly it's coming

0:28:20.399,0:28:24.080

today i remember dave was born and you

0:28:22.240,0:28:25.679

came to my work and you kind of sat in

0:28:24.080,0:28:28.720

my work for two hours

0:28:25.679,0:28:31.760

stinking by the way off because

0:28:28.720,0:28:32.880

after three days have been oh in a

0:28:31.760,0:28:36.480

hospital

0:28:32.880,0:28:36.480

waiting for a baby no just

0:28:37.120,0:28:40.880

it wasn't like as bad as that yes

0:28:42.799,0:28:47.279

thanks very much yes you came in and you

0:28:44.640,0:28:50.080

hadn't washed for a week

0:28:47.279,0:28:50.080

and it was really obvious

0:28:50.880,0:28:58.000

no but it added to this like

0:28:53.919,0:29:01.279

he had chosen to drive past his home

0:28:58.000,0:29:04.080

to my place of work

0:29:01.279,0:29:05.919

wait for me to finish work go down to

0:29:04.080,0:29:08.320

the photoshop put some photos of her

0:29:05.919,0:29:09.679

baby that has literally just come onto

0:29:08.320,0:29:13.360

there

0:29:09.679,0:29:17.200

and sat around so much that my boss went

0:29:13.360,0:29:19.600

lindsay i think you should go home and

0:29:17.200,0:29:22.000

i was like yeah please he's like yeah

0:29:19.600,0:29:25.440

these two are not

0:29:22.000,0:29:28.640

gonna settle so just go um and then

0:29:25.440,0:29:30.960

i was the first like the boss i'm not

0:29:28.640,0:29:34.159

leaving until yeah

0:29:30.960,0:29:38.240

thanks paul if you're watching

0:29:34.159,0:29:41.760

uh so that was really exciting because

0:29:38.240,0:29:44.480

he chose to come and get me and me be

0:29:41.760,0:29:46.159

the first person to go into that

0:29:44.480,0:29:47.520

the hospital that nobody was allowed

0:29:46.159,0:29:48.640

into so i had to hide behind a curtain

0:29:47.520,0:29:52.399

at one point i think

0:29:48.640,0:29:54.159

wow i don't think because

0:29:52.399,0:29:56.640

you were completely allowed in i just

0:29:54.159,0:29:59.120

think they would have rather not hads

0:29:56.640,0:29:59.919

no but remember when she was getting

0:29:59.120,0:30:03.760

something

0:29:59.919,0:30:05.279

okay the baby had an affection so

0:30:03.760,0:30:06.799

they were just trying to be cautious

0:30:05.279,0:30:09.840

okay trying to get me out though that

0:30:06.799,0:30:11.440

would have been a test

0:30:09.840,0:30:13.440

and i remember just sitting there with

0:30:11.440,0:30:17.360

them on my chest and

0:30:13.440,0:30:19.440

try to take selfies um as you do

0:30:17.360,0:30:21.360

yeah and i was still in my working form

0:30:19.440,0:30:24.720

and everything it was

0:30:21.360,0:30:26.960

it was a weird couple of days that

0:30:24.720,0:30:26.960

0:30:29.440,0:30:34.159

seeing ryan hey daddy took that like

0:30:32.080,0:30:37.039

turned up to water he just

0:30:34.159,0:30:38.960

his excitement rubbed off on all of us

0:30:37.039,0:30:42.880

did you see a change in mind

0:30:38.960,0:30:46.880

when his son was born yes

0:30:42.880,0:30:49.760

what sort of change um

0:30:46.880,0:30:51.120

so as you can see ryan is not a very

0:30:49.760,0:30:56.880

serious person

0:30:51.120,0:31:00.320

no and humor covers a lot of our life

0:30:56.880,0:31:04.640

and so when

0:31:00.320,0:31:07.840

jackson came along you saw the changing

0:31:04.640,0:31:10.960

seriousness the the banter

0:31:07.840,0:31:12.399

aspect was still there but the watch his

0:31:10.960,0:31:15.440

head

0:31:12.399,0:31:19.460

don't do that don't flush the toilet he

0:31:15.440,0:31:22.690

might wake up

0:31:19.460,0:31:22.690

[Laughter]

0:31:28.399,0:31:32.480

i don't even think i saw what was going

0:31:29.840,0:31:35.760

on in any of those programs

0:31:32.480,0:31:38.720

um should we really be

0:31:35.760,0:31:39.840

um having this in the house just like

0:31:38.720,0:31:43.600

things that you

0:31:39.840,0:31:43.600

never thought ryan would ever

0:31:43.840,0:31:48.799

ever think about um i suppose he risk

0:31:47.840,0:31:52.159

assessed his

0:31:48.799,0:31:53.919

his whole life um

0:31:52.159,0:31:56.159

and it was nice to see and it was nice

0:31:53.919,0:31:59.600

to be involved in as well

0:31:56.159,0:32:00.159

um you have no you've been involved with

0:31:59.600,0:32:03.279

a lot

0:32:00.159,0:32:05.360

a lot of it and i hope that i mean it's

0:32:03.279,0:32:07.279

not it's not like i've done that for you

0:32:05.360,0:32:09.120

i've never been like oh we should think

0:32:07.279,0:32:10.559

so this is

0:32:09.120,0:32:12.640

should have a child you should look

0:32:10.559,0:32:16.240

after the child

0:32:12.640,0:32:18.080

yeah um no i was you i think we

0:32:16.240,0:32:19.600

decided quite early on that it would be

0:32:18.080,0:32:22.480

important for you to be involved

0:32:19.600,0:32:22.880

um for all of the factors that you've

0:32:22.480,0:32:26.000

you've

0:32:22.880,0:32:30.240

kind of already mentioned the one

0:32:26.000,0:32:34.000

that you so wanted to have that kind of

0:32:30.240,0:32:35.360

maternal involvement and it was great to

0:32:34.000,0:32:37.440

have somebody who was somebody

0:32:35.360,0:32:40.159

so supportive like we needed a support

0:32:37.440,0:32:43.919

network it was great to have

0:32:40.159,0:32:46.640

a direct family member who wanted to be

0:32:43.919,0:32:48.240

directly involved so i know he takes two

0:32:46.640,0:32:51.120

weeks off and the nephew's born and

0:32:48.240,0:32:54.080

stays the full two weeks

0:32:51.120,0:32:54.640

like someone who's dedicated we worked

0:32:54.080,0:32:56.559

we worked

0:32:54.640,0:32:58.399

out together because paula unfortunately

0:32:56.559,0:33:02.240

because she'd had such a rough pregnancy

0:32:58.399,0:33:05.440

was quite ill so um

0:33:02.240,0:33:06.640

i had it would have been all on me for

0:33:05.440,0:33:10.240

those two weeks

0:33:06.640,0:33:11.360

uh if you hadn't been there so like i

0:33:10.240,0:33:12.799

can only like i've

0:33:11.360,0:33:15.519

i've thanked you before but i can thank

0:33:12.799,0:33:19.039

you on on the internet thank you lance

0:33:15.519,0:33:20.480

um that the you were there to help

0:33:19.039,0:33:22.799

support me during that time

0:33:20.480,0:33:24.000

and there was one there was one specific

0:33:22.799,0:33:25.519

night where um

0:33:24.000,0:33:27.440

because paula really wanted to continue

0:33:25.519,0:33:31.360

breastfeeding we didn't want to

0:33:27.440,0:33:33.919

bring in the the the

0:33:31.360,0:33:34.399

the baby milk you know the what do they

0:33:33.919,0:33:37.760

call it

0:33:34.399,0:33:38.399

formula yeah um they wanted uh we wanted

0:33:37.760,0:33:39.600

to kind of

0:33:38.399,0:33:40.640

that we've been told by the health

0:33:39.600,0:33:42.640

visitor that you shouldn't do

0:33:40.640,0:33:45.679

combination feeding that you should do

0:33:42.640,0:33:46.799

breastfeeding or one combination feeding

0:33:45.679,0:33:48.080

doesn't really work because then the

0:33:46.799,0:33:50.320

baby won't latch on

0:33:48.080,0:33:51.600

to its mother and there was a bit of

0:33:50.320,0:33:54.080

that and we were like

0:33:51.600,0:33:54.640

right okay so we were kind of first-time

0:33:54.080,0:33:56.320

parents

0:33:54.640,0:33:57.760

i was about paula was like right well we

0:33:56.320,0:33:59.039

can't do the formula thing we need to

0:33:57.760,0:34:00.480

make sure that i'm

0:33:59.039,0:34:02.640

which is big pressure on her with her

0:34:00.480,0:34:05.039

not being well like she's not

0:34:02.640,0:34:06.240

feeling great she's i'm really tired

0:34:05.039,0:34:08.560

she's still struggling with

0:34:06.240,0:34:10.720

um the after effects of the pregnancy

0:34:08.560,0:34:13.919

and fit infection and

0:34:10.720,0:34:14.639

um and just it was a rough time for her

0:34:13.919,0:34:17.679

so she was

0:34:14.639,0:34:21.040

she was still healing and he was a very

0:34:17.679,0:34:23.520

hungry baby he was a very hungry baby

0:34:21.040,0:34:25.440

so we kind of decided one night because

0:34:23.520,0:34:26.560

paula was fast asleep the baby so

0:34:25.440,0:34:29.440

jackson's crying

0:34:26.560,0:34:30.240

um we we had explored everything that's

0:34:29.440,0:34:31.919

0:34:30.240,0:34:33.919

once we're just gonna need to feed him

0:34:31.919,0:34:35.520

like i'm not waking paula up we're not

0:34:33.919,0:34:38.320

doing it

0:34:35.520,0:34:40.159

um it's it's just we did not make that

0:34:38.320,0:34:43.040

decision in five minutes

0:34:40.159,0:34:43.839

i must have to say we that took us a

0:34:43.040,0:34:46.960

good time

0:34:43.839,0:34:50.720

to morally we

0:34:46.960,0:34:50.720

first bottle first feed

0:34:50.800,0:34:54.159

what was paula's reaction when you woke

0:34:52.879,0:34:58.240

up when she woke up and

0:34:54.159,0:35:01.359

you told her thank you okay

0:34:58.240,0:35:02.640

so i could call it because it's still

0:35:01.359,0:35:05.440

latched on as well

0:35:02.640,0:35:06.800

after that so it's combination feeding

0:35:05.440,0:35:10.000

for us that actually work

0:35:06.800,0:35:11.760

it works really well so and i got to be

0:35:10.000,0:35:12.960

more involved

0:35:11.760,0:35:14.800

because you've got to actually feed him

0:35:12.960,0:35:18.480

with a bottle yeah you know

0:35:14.800,0:35:20.640

that that's and i know most dads

0:35:18.480,0:35:22.560

admit to this that as soon as you're

0:35:20.640,0:35:24.480

able to feed your child

0:35:22.560,0:35:26.640

you that is when you actually are able

0:35:24.480,0:35:28.240

to be involved in that process because

0:35:26.640,0:35:29.760

you can't give birth to the baby so

0:35:28.240,0:35:30.480

you've not you've been there but you've

0:35:29.760,0:35:32.320

been supported

0:35:30.480,0:35:34.480

in a support network but now you're

0:35:32.320,0:35:36.160

actually actively helping keep this baby

0:35:34.480,0:35:38.960

alive you're like oh look i'm feet i'm

0:35:36.160,0:35:41.839

feeding this baby like i'm doing that

0:35:38.960,0:35:43.520

so like that for a lot of that is that

0:35:41.839,0:35:47.119

moment where you're like

0:35:43.520,0:35:49.119

here i am i'm providing i'm i i'm doing

0:35:47.119,0:35:50.320

doing the actual parenting now that

0:35:49.119,0:35:51.839

makes sense

0:35:50.320,0:35:54.240

so for a moment that you're like i'm

0:35:51.839,0:35:56.480

actually involved now um

0:35:54.240,0:35:58.240

i know i remember when we did it and i

0:35:56.480,0:35:59.200

said you need to do it first i can't be

0:35:58.240,0:36:02.720

the first one to get

0:35:59.200,0:36:04.560

baseball yeah as much as i'd

0:36:02.720,0:36:05.920

love that and did you right did you give

0:36:04.560,0:36:07.839

the first bottle

0:36:05.920,0:36:09.440

well obviously yeah and we were in that

0:36:07.839,0:36:11.200

moment um

0:36:09.440,0:36:12.720

that lindsay just explained but we're in

0:36:11.200,0:36:15.040

that moment where we were scared

0:36:12.720,0:36:16.560

that we were going against paula's

0:36:15.040,0:36:18.400

wishes

0:36:16.560,0:36:19.920

and and i understood the reason for it

0:36:18.400,0:36:21.920

it wasn't just paul's wishes like we

0:36:19.920,0:36:23.920

we had both been told this by the health

0:36:21.920,0:36:25.119

visit so we just

0:36:23.920,0:36:26.960

i was worried that we were doing

0:36:25.119,0:36:28.800

something wrong

0:36:26.960,0:36:30.320

and looking back now that seems crazy

0:36:28.800,0:36:31.920

but at the time

0:36:30.320,0:36:34.400

when you're in it and the first baby i

0:36:31.920,0:36:36.079

was just like i thought

0:36:34.400,0:36:37.760

are we are we doing the right thing like

0:36:36.079,0:36:39.200

are we ruining

0:36:37.760,0:36:41.119

are we ruining something you've spoke

0:36:39.200,0:36:42.400

about this before about not only having

0:36:41.119,0:36:44.880

that then but having that

0:36:42.400,0:36:46.240

basically throughout the whole time that

0:36:44.880,0:36:46.800

you bring up children am i doing the

0:36:46.240,0:36:49.839

right thing

0:36:46.800,0:36:51.359

am i am i causing the harm here you know

0:36:49.839,0:36:53.680

yeah you're always second guess yourself

0:36:51.359,0:36:55.839

because you wonder if it's something

0:36:53.680,0:36:57.280

if you did something that would cause

0:36:55.839,0:36:59.359

harm

0:36:57.280,0:37:00.400

could you forgive yourself with that so

0:36:59.359,0:37:02.480

i've i always

0:37:00.400,0:37:03.680

and linda lindsey said uh yeah he's not

0:37:02.480,0:37:05.359

very serious when it comes to my

0:37:03.680,0:37:06.240

children i've become very serious i'm

0:37:05.359,0:37:08.320

0:37:06.240,0:37:09.839

no no we're gonna we're gonna think this

0:37:08.320,0:37:11.520

through we'll risk assess every part

0:37:09.839,0:37:13.280

turn that tv down

0:37:11.520,0:37:15.520

yeah turn that tv down do not flush that

0:37:13.280,0:37:15.520

toilet

0:37:15.839,0:37:20.640

um do you know about just like all the

0:37:18.880,0:37:21.359

thought processes that we have available

0:37:20.640,0:37:23.520

to us now

0:37:21.359,0:37:25.680

i might make a decision that's wrong

0:37:23.520,0:37:26.400

based on the information i have been

0:37:25.680,0:37:28.400

wrong

0:37:26.400,0:37:30.560

that's that's different i can't help

0:37:28.400,0:37:31.920

that but to have make the wrong decision

0:37:30.560,0:37:32.960

because i haven't thought it through i

0:37:31.920,0:37:36.320

could not live with that

0:37:32.960,0:37:38.480

yeah so um

0:37:36.320,0:37:40.720

that's why on that moment when wendy and

0:37:38.480,0:37:41.280

i were having to feed jackson we were

0:37:40.720,0:37:44.320

just like

0:37:41.280,0:37:46.640

ah are we doing the right thing

0:37:44.320,0:37:48.480

because the health visitor says no and

0:37:46.640,0:37:50.320

she surely knows better than we do

0:37:48.480,0:37:52.079

but this baby's hungry like it's this

0:37:50.320,0:37:55.200

we've changed his bum

0:37:52.079,0:37:58.640

we've tried to rock him to sleep

0:37:55.200,0:37:59.280

there's nothing left like he's clearly

0:37:58.640,0:38:01.440

hungry

0:37:59.280,0:38:02.720

and we need to feed him so let's feed

0:38:01.440,0:38:06.640

him um

0:38:02.720,0:38:09.200

and risk in the morning paula been like

0:38:06.640,0:38:09.760

what have we done and well it's it was

0:38:09.200,0:38:11.520

one thing

0:38:09.760,0:38:13.280

it was it became to the point where it

0:38:11.520,0:38:14.880

was very obvious that jackson was hungry

0:38:13.280,0:38:17.040

and paula wasn't

0:38:14.880,0:38:19.359

able to help him because she was she was

0:38:17.040,0:38:22.560

so unwell

0:38:19.359,0:38:22.560

it wasn't that either he was

0:38:22.720,0:38:25.760

paula could have milked till the cows

0:38:25.119,0:38:27.680

came home

0:38:25.760,0:38:28.960

and it still would not have been enough

0:38:27.680,0:38:32.079

for that baby okay

0:38:28.960,0:38:34.320

yeah he was very hungry um so we did we

0:38:32.079,0:38:35.839

we fed him there and then and actually

0:38:34.320,0:38:37.359

there after we were giving him hungry

0:38:35.839,0:38:39.200

baby milk it wasn't even

0:38:37.359,0:38:40.960

like normal formula well after that we

0:38:39.200,0:38:43.040

were giving him like for a little while

0:38:40.960,0:38:44.960

we did but then he was still hungry

0:38:43.040,0:38:46.560

and we were combination feeding and he

0:38:44.960,0:38:47.280

he clearly got a taste for milk and he

0:38:46.560,0:38:50.480

was like

0:38:47.280,0:38:53.599

this is awesome give me more um

0:38:50.480,0:38:53.839

and he's as soon as we started feeding

0:38:53.599,0:38:57.119

him

0:38:53.839,0:38:57.599

uh on the bottle he slept all the time

0:38:57.119,0:38:59.520

didn't he

0:38:57.599,0:39:01.760

once he was just a great sleeper he

0:38:59.520,0:39:04.720

slept it was a great baby

0:39:01.760,0:39:05.760

he was a brilliant baby um vlad is in

0:39:04.720,0:39:10.400

her full sense of

0:39:05.760,0:39:13.839

he said absolutely amazing baby um

0:39:10.400,0:39:15.359

like when he was a like technically a

0:39:13.839,0:39:17.599

toddler but not really

0:39:15.359,0:39:19.440

um it was the size of her take himself

0:39:17.599,0:39:20.720

to bed it would like

0:39:19.440,0:39:22.720

there was a size but it would crawl to

0:39:20.720,0:39:23.440

the bottom of the bottom step and we

0:39:22.720,0:39:26.640

would like

0:39:23.440,0:39:27.200

is it bedtime anybody yeah then we were

0:39:26.640,0:39:30.320

0:39:27.200,0:39:33.359

okay this is perfect so

0:39:30.320,0:39:33.839

it's bed it's bedtime then so we and

0:39:33.359,0:39:35.680

then

0:39:33.839,0:39:37.040

we i had started doing this thing where

0:39:35.680,0:39:38.000

i was helping him up the stairs like

0:39:37.040,0:39:39.599

obviously i wouldn't let go of the

0:39:38.000,0:39:42.000

stairs himself as a baby but

0:39:39.599,0:39:44.560

um like showing him that we were going

0:39:42.000,0:39:45.839

upstairs and i would like

0:39:44.560,0:39:47.760

he'd be trying to crawl up the stairs

0:39:45.839,0:39:49.200

and i'd like help his knees get to the

0:39:47.760,0:39:51.760

next step and

0:39:49.200,0:39:52.960

doing everything took ages but we got to

0:39:51.760,0:39:53.839

the top steps so he was obviously

0:39:52.960,0:39:56.160

knackered by the

0:39:53.839,0:39:57.920

time we got to the top and then we got

0:39:56.160,0:39:59.760

into we took her into bed and he was

0:39:57.920,0:40:03.760

0:39:59.760,0:40:03.760

the dummy pastor take his own dummy

0:40:04.960,0:40:10.000

yeah like it's asleep um

0:40:08.000,0:40:11.119

and that was that and then we were like

0:40:10.000,0:40:13.920

right well how long's

0:40:11.119,0:40:15.599

how how long is he going to be down for

0:40:13.920,0:40:19.200

the only time he woke up

0:40:15.599,0:40:24.079

is when he lost him wow

0:40:19.200,0:40:26.400

and i think they had like a sofa

0:40:24.079,0:40:27.359

they had like a sofa bed in his bedroom

0:40:26.400,0:40:29.359

and that was

0:40:27.359,0:40:31.440

that was my bed how i made that through

0:40:29.359,0:40:34.800

without making any noise i don't know

0:40:31.440,0:40:36.560

um and he used to wake up

0:40:34.800,0:40:38.480

as soon as i heard a week cry i had a

0:40:36.560,0:40:42.000

spare dummy i was there

0:40:38.480,0:40:44.560

and then one night i heard him gurgle

0:40:42.000,0:40:47.040

and i was ready and i sat and watched

0:40:44.560,0:40:49.760

him he crawled to the end of his court

0:40:47.040,0:40:51.760

he knew where those dummies were kept

0:40:49.760,0:40:53.920

reached over the side of the clock got a

0:40:51.760,0:40:58.000

dummy from the top of the drawers

0:40:53.920,0:41:00.079

i went back to sleep wow and i was like

0:40:58.000,0:41:01.680

i don't even know how old he was he

0:41:00.079,0:41:06.480

couldn't talk anyway wow

0:41:01.680,0:41:06.480

no it was he was yeah and he was just

0:41:14.480,0:41:17.440

like other people other parents are like

0:41:16.240,0:41:18.319

uh we don't get any sleep with their

0:41:17.440,0:41:20.560

baby

0:41:18.319,0:41:22.400

that's that is true there is an element

0:41:20.560,0:41:24.240

of that but we worked really hard

0:41:22.400,0:41:25.839

um doing i think there's a thing called

0:41:24.240,0:41:27.200

the three-day nanny

0:41:25.839,0:41:29.359

and it's kind of controversial in some

0:41:27.200,0:41:30.000

ways but i i would recommend it to

0:41:29.359,0:41:32.000

anybody

0:41:30.000,0:41:33.440

that basically you do a routine for

0:41:32.000,0:41:35.280

three days and once you've done it for

0:41:33.440,0:41:36.560

three days it kind of takes

0:41:35.280,0:41:39.040

and you might have to refresh those

0:41:36.560,0:41:42.720

three days as as you go on but

0:41:39.040,0:41:44.560

it's a psychology thing but um

0:41:42.720,0:41:46.079

yeah routines are set up in three days

0:41:44.560,0:41:46.880

basically so once you've done it three

0:41:46.079,0:41:49.119

times

0:41:46.880,0:41:49.920

that's the routine and we'll do that so

0:41:49.119,0:41:53.280

we did that

0:41:49.920,0:41:54.800

for like sleep training and we didn't

0:41:53.280,0:41:56.720

do the whole bringing the baby into our

0:41:54.800,0:41:57.839

bed our kids have never slept in our

0:41:56.720,0:42:00.839

beds with us

0:41:57.839,0:42:01.839

um and that there's very they were

0:42:00.839,0:42:03.920

getting a

0:42:01.839,0:42:06.160

different school of thought here like

0:42:03.920,0:42:08.960

this we could have

0:42:06.160,0:42:10.560

an entire season just on the different

0:42:08.960,0:42:11.280

sides of parenting and the different

0:42:10.560,0:42:14.319

nurtures

0:42:11.280,0:42:15.440

and and we chose to go that way um and

0:42:14.319,0:42:18.319

it's worked for us

0:42:15.440,0:42:19.920

so that's all i can say on that but we

0:42:18.319,0:42:22.000

do get a good night's sleep now

0:42:19.920,0:42:24.640

and the kids have always slept well

0:42:22.000,0:42:29.920

because that's what we've chosen to do

0:42:24.640,0:42:31.359

so i can i can only say we've had a good

0:42:29.920,0:42:33.760

well lindsay's seen it work first hand

0:42:31.359,0:42:36.240

ambulance like

0:42:33.760,0:42:38.800

and yeah i can't um comment on they're

0:42:36.240,0:42:42.079

not bringing them into the beds

0:42:38.800,0:42:42.079

you looked a little bit guilty

0:42:42.240,0:42:45.920

um jackson i like have multiple times i

0:42:45.200,0:42:49.520

fell asleep

0:42:45.920,0:42:52.000

on the sofa um

0:42:49.520,0:42:54.160

but he was on the inside and there was a

0:42:52.000,0:42:57.119

pillow between us it was okay

0:42:54.160,0:42:59.680

and when we had we had jackson for was

0:42:57.119,0:43:02.240

it two weeks sorry

0:42:59.680,0:43:03.280

um when you paul went back to work and

0:43:02.240,0:43:06.960

you were

0:43:03.280,0:43:08.880

finishing up work um

0:43:06.960,0:43:10.240

and my husband would take him into bed

0:43:08.880,0:43:12.560

in the morning because he's like it's

0:43:10.240,0:43:14.960

not time to get up here

0:43:12.560,0:43:16.880

and feed his bottle there but like it

0:43:14.960,0:43:19.200

was never a

0:43:16.880,0:43:22.720

a big thing and then marisa she needed

0:43:19.200,0:43:24.880

to be brought into bed a couple of times

0:43:22.720,0:43:26.000

but nothing like you see these people

0:43:24.880,0:43:28.880

that they're 11 year old

0:43:26.000,0:43:29.839

is running another bed you know those

0:43:28.880,0:43:31.280

kids know

0:43:29.839,0:43:33.119

that if they come in for a cuddle in bed

0:43:31.280,0:43:34.480

they're not staying there i'm not saying

0:43:33.119,0:43:35.760

we've not had a cuddle in the morning

0:43:34.480,0:43:41.839

with their kids like

0:43:35.760,0:43:41.839

don't make me happy really

0:43:46.079,0:43:50.400

actually i remember one time that his uh

0:43:48.319,0:43:52.800

jackson came into my bed

0:43:50.400,0:43:54.319

and he went okay anyways i'm going back

0:43:52.800,0:43:56.400

to mine because i think i snored or

0:43:54.319,0:44:01.200

something

0:43:56.400,0:44:02.800

um and that was i was like well

0:44:01.200,0:44:05.599

snoring is good for something

0:44:02.800,0:44:08.640

[Laughter]

0:44:05.599,0:44:12.240

lindsay you've obviously had a very

0:44:08.640,0:44:13.440

pivotal role to play in the upbringing

0:44:12.240,0:44:14.880

of of ryan's kids

0:44:13.440,0:44:17.920

we've spoken to a number of people in

0:44:14.880,0:44:20.319

previous episodes who are

0:44:17.920,0:44:21.760

very much of the mindset that they never

0:44:20.319,0:44:24.319

want to have children that that's

0:44:21.760,0:44:27.200

something that they will never entertain

0:44:24.319,0:44:29.200

some have gone as far as to to to be

0:44:27.200,0:44:32.160

sterilized to prevent themselves

0:44:29.200,0:44:33.760

when you hear stories like that how does

0:44:32.160,0:44:36.400

it make you feel

0:44:33.760,0:44:37.839

i'm very open-minded i mean i don't

0:44:36.400,0:44:39.650

judge anybody for

0:44:37.839,0:44:41.760

their choices and

0:44:39.650,0:44:45.119

[Music]

0:44:41.760,0:44:46.880

i i think this sterilization i think

0:44:45.119,0:44:47.440

ryan told me about this and it kind of

0:44:46.880,0:44:51.000

went

0:44:47.440,0:44:52.800

that's a bit drastic like that's that's

0:44:51.000,0:44:55.599

non-reversal

0:44:52.800,0:44:56.160

and although there is i think there is

0:44:55.599,0:44:59.440

some

0:44:56.160,0:45:01.680

ones you can reverse now but like that's

0:44:59.440,0:45:02.800

that's a big statement like nothing's

0:45:01.680,0:45:06.000

gonna change

0:45:02.800,0:45:07.280

i'm never doing it but then in the back

0:45:06.000,0:45:09.119

of my head i'm like there is other

0:45:07.280,0:45:13.119

options if that does change

0:45:09.119,0:45:14.960

like they could adopt they could

0:45:13.119,0:45:16.640

stuff but we don't know what they've

0:45:14.960,0:45:19.839

been through that's made them

0:45:16.640,0:45:21.599

make that choice you don't know if

0:45:19.839,0:45:23.040

like if you were bad as a child you

0:45:21.599,0:45:24.400

might not want another child to go

0:45:23.040,0:45:26.319

through that so you're not having kids

0:45:24.400,0:45:30.560

0:45:26.319,0:45:31.920

you just i i sometimes call myself

0:45:30.560,0:45:34.560

yeah you don't know what's going on

0:45:31.920,0:45:37.599

somebody's head i sometimes say now i am

0:45:34.560,0:45:41.280

too selfish to have kids even if i could

0:45:37.599,0:45:42.640

because i like going out for a drive i

0:45:41.280,0:45:44.800

0:45:42.640,0:45:47.040

sitting on the sofa and falling asleep

0:45:44.800,0:45:49.920

and not having to worry

0:45:47.040,0:45:51.440

about getting up to look at someday i

0:45:49.920,0:45:52.800

like being able to say do you know what

0:45:51.440,0:45:56.400

i'm going over america

0:45:52.800,0:46:00.400

at the drop of a hat yeah my husband

0:45:56.400,0:46:02.800

likes his sleep way too much um

0:46:00.400,0:46:05.839

so i don't know if he would even survive

0:46:02.800,0:46:09.839

[Laughter]

0:46:05.839,0:46:11.520

i've just well yeah i've just done three

0:46:09.839,0:46:12.160

nights night shift at my work for the

0:46:11.520,0:46:16.319

first time

0:46:12.160,0:46:18.480

ever and it killed me like it's hard

0:46:16.319,0:46:20.960

it's i know i wouldn't build my feet for

0:46:18.480,0:46:24.160

10 hours a day with a baby but

0:46:20.960,0:46:26.560

you might well actually we did

0:46:24.160,0:46:27.359

rock jackson so that that was probably

0:46:26.560,0:46:30.800

true

0:46:27.359,0:46:33.680

and i would not judge anybody for their

0:46:30.800,0:46:33.680

decisions i just

0:46:34.079,0:46:37.200

it would scare me to know that it was so

0:46:36.079,0:46:40.839

permanent

0:46:37.200,0:46:42.400

a few of the things that you said there

0:46:40.839,0:46:44.319

0:46:42.400,0:46:47.440

have resonated with me and with some of

0:46:44.319,0:46:49.680

our previous guests who spoke about

0:46:47.440,0:46:51.599

enjoying what they have just now being

0:46:49.680,0:46:54.560

happy where they are just now and

0:46:51.599,0:46:56.000

sometimes that's enough for them to say

0:46:54.560,0:46:58.319

okay i'm gonna have the surgery i'm

0:46:56.000,0:47:01.119

gonna i'm gonna sterilize myself because

0:46:58.319,0:47:01.920

i'm happy with my life i don't want to

0:47:01.119,0:47:04.720

have the

0:47:01.920,0:47:05.599

risk if that's the right word of that

0:47:04.720,0:47:06.960

changing

0:47:05.599,0:47:09.200

and you said you said you think you

0:47:06.960,0:47:12.640

might be too selfish now to have kids

0:47:09.200,0:47:13.280

how do you know when how do you decide

0:47:12.640,0:47:15.839

right okay

0:47:13.280,0:47:17.760

i'm i'm gonna if the right word is give

0:47:15.839,0:47:20.240

up or stop trying

0:47:17.760,0:47:21.839

i don't i don't think you ever give up

0:47:20.240,0:47:24.160

or stop trying

0:47:21.839,0:47:26.160

in the back of my head even though at

0:47:24.160,0:47:29.760

this moment in time it's 100

0:47:26.160,0:47:31.760

not going to happen for me right now

0:47:29.760,0:47:33.839

you still have that little bit in the

0:47:31.760,0:47:37.200

back your head that thinks

0:47:33.839,0:47:40.240

yeah one day maybe um

0:47:37.200,0:47:41.680

and as much as i say i'm still selfish i

0:47:40.240,0:47:44.319

went to inverness

0:47:41.680,0:47:46.640

thank you to my brother and paula for um

0:47:44.319,0:47:49.680

a belated anniversary

0:47:46.640,0:47:53.040

and present and we went up to

0:47:49.680,0:47:54.960

the fairy garden and and we got so

0:47:53.040,0:47:55.440

excited about finding these fairies and

0:47:54.960,0:47:57.839

stuff

0:47:55.440,0:47:59.200

and and i was like i'd love to come back

0:47:57.839,0:48:01.599

here with the kids and

0:47:59.200,0:48:02.720

sam was like well they've just been

0:48:01.599,0:48:03.920

they've seen it

0:48:02.720,0:48:06.960

so what's your problem and i was like

0:48:03.920,0:48:09.599

yeah but i wasn't with them oh okay

0:48:06.960,0:48:11.839

share your experience yes yeah so and

0:48:09.599,0:48:14.960

then i showed them pictures of my

0:48:11.839,0:48:17.440

i was tripping we never saw that

0:48:14.960,0:48:18.319

we never saw that like and then this big

0:48:17.440,0:48:20.400

log that i

0:48:18.319,0:48:21.920

had to do the dirty dance and

0:48:20.400,0:48:25.839

reenactment on

0:48:21.920,0:48:28.960

well i tried my version of that

0:48:25.839,0:48:30.800

a modified version of the dirty dancer i

0:48:28.960,0:48:33.119

set up first enough

0:48:30.800,0:48:34.000

and like they would never have thought

0:48:33.119,0:48:36.880

of that on that

0:48:34.000,0:48:38.400

log but we were both in the same place

0:48:36.880,0:48:39.200

at different times and did different

0:48:38.400,0:48:41.040

things

0:48:39.200,0:48:42.240

and i said that i was like you're not

0:48:41.040,0:48:43.760

seeing it from

0:48:42.240,0:48:45.599

there we could have had a totally

0:48:43.760,0:48:47.280

different experience

0:48:45.599,0:48:48.640

and we always say we want to go to

0:48:47.280,0:48:52.000

america

0:48:48.640,0:48:52.559

all together because i've been to magic

0:48:52.000,0:48:54.960

kingdom

0:48:52.559,0:48:55.760

and i've sat there and been a child for

0:48:54.960,0:48:58.160

a day

0:48:55.760,0:48:59.680

i've been again and done the adult side

0:48:58.160,0:49:01.599

of it

0:48:59.680,0:49:03.520

i don't think it would be the same as

0:49:01.599,0:49:05.119

any of those experiences to then do it

0:49:03.520,0:49:07.200

again with the kids

0:49:05.119,0:49:08.400

i think it's a totally different so you

0:49:07.200,0:49:10.800

just i think you have to get that in

0:49:08.400,0:49:13.599

your mind that

0:49:10.800,0:49:14.720

having kids may stop you doing some

0:49:13.599,0:49:17.440

things

0:49:14.720,0:49:20.240

but it will change the experience

0:49:17.440,0:49:22.720

sometimes for the better sometimes not

0:49:20.240,0:49:24.480

i couldn't imagine doing disneyland with

0:49:22.720,0:49:25.839

a buggy but

0:49:24.480,0:49:28.160

but it can be done we've all seen it

0:49:25.839,0:49:30.559

happening it can yes there's a buggy

0:49:28.160,0:49:33.040

there's a buggy park i mean yeah it's

0:49:30.559,0:49:34.319

been thought of

0:49:33.040,0:49:36.559

we didn't want to do it with the buggy

0:49:34.319,0:49:37.520

we were very aware of how busy these

0:49:36.559,0:49:40.880

places get

0:49:37.520,0:49:43.760

yeah but we still did it we were kind

0:49:40.880,0:49:45.599

of different though aren't we we our mum

0:49:43.760,0:49:47.440

lives there so we have

0:49:45.599,0:49:49.760

more opportunities to go and do stuff

0:49:47.440,0:49:51.440

like that but taking away the park side

0:49:49.760,0:49:54.079

of it i'd love to go in my mum's pool

0:49:51.440,0:49:57.440

with the kids and

0:49:54.079,0:49:59.119

have that fun but when i'm on my own i

0:49:57.440,0:50:01.280

love the ladies and then until

0:49:59.119,0:50:02.960

yeah and i totally was a glass of

0:50:01.280,0:50:03.760

something that would not be there if the

0:50:02.960,0:50:07.440

kids were there

0:50:03.760,0:50:10.839

it's it is different um

0:50:07.440,0:50:12.000

it changes but i would say that it's

0:50:10.839,0:50:14.170

adaptable

0:50:12.000,0:50:16.240

if you've got a good babysitter yeah

0:50:14.170,0:50:19.839

[Laughter]

0:50:16.240,0:50:19.839

where did polar go first yes

0:50:20.079,0:50:22.960

new year i can't remember

0:50:24.240,0:50:27.839

it doesn't know

0:50:29.839,0:50:32.880

a four-year-old and a two-year-old and

0:50:32.559,0:50:35.760

you

0:50:32.880,0:50:37.359

they still managed to go to new york for

0:50:35.760,0:50:39.200

police 30th

0:50:37.359,0:50:41.680

so if you've got that support network

0:50:39.200,0:50:43.680

you don't have to give anything up

0:50:41.680,0:50:44.800

you have to change the dates and stuff

0:50:43.680,0:50:47.359

but yeah

0:50:44.800,0:50:48.160

yeah you make compromises where they

0:50:47.359,0:50:50.480

need to be made

0:50:48.160,0:50:51.359

and you decide when and where you have

0:50:50.480,0:50:54.319

to do that

0:50:51.359,0:50:55.200

um different things you have to take on

0:50:54.319,0:50:56.960

different

0:50:55.200,0:50:59.680

considerations when you've got kids but

0:50:56.960,0:51:01.440

that's that's the same way everybody um

0:50:59.680,0:51:03.440

it might not be children that's the fact

0:51:01.440,0:51:05.280

it could be money it could be

0:51:03.440,0:51:06.480

the way you live it could be it could be

0:51:05.280,0:51:08.319

anything like there could be anything

0:51:06.480,0:51:10.800

who's gonna feed the cat

0:51:08.319,0:51:12.400

yeah exactly like oh i've got a dog you

0:51:10.800,0:51:13.839

know i think any other responsibility

0:51:12.400,0:51:14.880

can get in the way of a decision-making

0:51:13.839,0:51:18.640

process

0:51:14.880,0:51:21.040

so i don't think kids for us have been

0:51:18.640,0:51:22.480

a hindrance because we've had that like

0:51:21.040,0:51:25.040

obviously we can't

0:51:22.480,0:51:26.720

do things on a whim at the same time but

0:51:25.040,0:51:30.640

we can take the kids with us

0:51:26.720,0:51:32.319

so um and we actually like

0:51:30.640,0:51:33.839

if you didn't have kids you could do

0:51:32.319,0:51:36.960

things on a whim anyway

0:51:33.839,0:51:41.359

so well not right now no

0:51:36.960,0:51:43.839

no no mine is if you take the kids away

0:51:41.359,0:51:46.559

it's not you have to plan things paula

0:51:43.839,0:51:51.040

still likes our plans

0:51:46.559,0:51:53.200

probably not so much yeah

0:51:51.040,0:51:55.680

if you take away the kids that wouldn't

0:51:53.200,0:51:57.280

really have changed that much of that

0:51:55.680,0:51:59.440

and i wish i could be as organized as

0:51:57.280,0:52:01.760

paula i love it but

0:51:59.440,0:52:02.640

just not i'm not that person no i could

0:52:01.760,0:52:05.440

write a list

0:52:02.640,0:52:06.800

of lists and then do another list and

0:52:05.440,0:52:09.119

then ignore them

0:52:06.800,0:52:10.079

i close the book and that is it yeah

0:52:09.119,0:52:13.359

yeah

0:52:10.079,0:52:15.359

and so i don't think

0:52:13.359,0:52:16.880

and the children would have stopped that

0:52:15.359,0:52:18.319

but

0:52:16.880,0:52:20.000

i think you've got to do more right

0:52:18.319,0:52:22.000

because you've got the kids as an excuse

0:52:20.000,0:52:24.880

i mean who goes trampolining

0:52:22.000,0:52:26.720

or a soft play area where you're not

0:52:24.880,0:52:29.200

really meant to be in there but

0:52:26.720,0:52:31.040

you've got a child so it's okay i can't

0:52:29.200,0:52:33.040

tell you how much i wish

0:52:31.040,0:52:36.240

i was small enough to still be able to

0:52:33.040,0:52:36.240

go into like a ball pool

0:52:36.640,0:52:42.079

jackson yeah it's just not acceptable

0:52:42.960,0:52:50.319

um the the thing is i took jackson to

0:52:46.319,0:52:52.480

a local uh i don't want to name it but

0:52:50.319,0:52:53.359

yeah um soft play area and we used to go

0:52:52.480,0:52:54.960

every tuesday

0:52:53.359,0:52:56.800

so they started getting to know that we

0:52:54.960,0:52:57.280

would be there like oh hi yeah how you

0:52:56.800,0:52:59.119

doing

0:52:57.280,0:53:00.400

like so and i would take him out

0:52:59.119,0:53:02.160

obviously he was just little so

0:53:00.400,0:53:03.359

he we would i would take him in and go

0:53:02.160,0:53:05.040

in with him and we'd sit in the ball

0:53:03.359,0:53:05.520

pool together and the whole thing was

0:53:05.040,0:53:08.720

great

0:53:05.520,0:53:11.280

like i would not change that experience

0:53:08.720,0:53:15.680

it got to the point where on a tuesday

0:53:11.280,0:53:16.640

there'd be like five adults and one baby

0:53:15.680,0:53:19.040

we're all sitting around the table

0:53:16.640,0:53:20.640

having that becomes an excuse

0:53:19.040,0:53:23.119

yeah and they're like who's taking them

0:53:20.640,0:53:24.720

in today

0:53:23.119,0:53:26.079

who wants to go through the big rollers

0:53:24.720,0:53:28.400

like lindsay's like i'm gonna go through

0:53:26.079,0:53:32.480

i want to like squeeze myself

0:53:28.400,0:53:32.480

thank you um

0:53:33.839,0:53:38.400

yeah i was um able to use it as a

0:53:37.040,0:53:39.920

an example of whether or not i was

0:53:38.400,0:53:40.839

putting on weight if i could still get

0:53:39.920,0:53:44.000

through the

0:53:40.839,0:53:45.520

roller i'm like oh uh i'm gonna need to

0:53:44.000,0:53:46.720

to really manage my weight a bit better

0:53:45.520,0:53:47.520

because i can't get through the rollers

0:53:46.720,0:53:49.119

anymore

0:53:47.520,0:53:51.680

but do you know if you'd have gone there

0:53:49.119,0:53:53.040

on your own you wouldn't have done that

0:53:51.680,0:53:54.720

you'd have been like i'm too big to go

0:53:53.040,0:53:56.800

through that walk past it

0:53:54.720,0:53:59.440

that baby's just gone through you have

0:53:56.800,0:53:59.440

no choice

0:54:00.000,0:54:03.839

that's true too oh i know some and they

0:54:02.319,0:54:05.760

don't make it easy

0:54:03.839,0:54:08.800

no you have to go through the rulers to

0:54:05.760,0:54:08.800

be in there with your kids

0:54:09.040,0:54:12.240

or do you stand at the other side

0:54:10.480,0:54:15.520

through the

0:54:12.240,0:54:15.520

day and you're right

0:54:15.599,0:54:19.359

it's the beginning you had to go in you

0:54:18.240,0:54:21.839

had to go in

0:54:19.359,0:54:24.000

so it was good i really enjoyed that so

0:54:21.839,0:54:25.440

though yeah these shared experiences

0:54:24.000,0:54:27.040

it's the same as anything though when

0:54:25.440,0:54:28.000

you tell a story you're like you had to

0:54:27.040,0:54:31.359

be there

0:54:28.000,0:54:32.079

um it's the same thing so if you're all

0:54:31.359,0:54:34.000

invested

0:54:32.079,0:54:35.359

like paula and i are fully invested in

0:54:34.000,0:54:36.960

our kids because

0:54:35.359,0:54:39.040

that's the choice we've made we have our

0:54:36.960,0:54:42.000

kids we're fully invested in them

0:54:39.040,0:54:43.200

and everything every decision making

0:54:42.000,0:54:45.599

process we make

0:54:43.200,0:54:46.960

has them at the core of it how how are

0:54:45.599,0:54:48.079

we going to do that with them or how we

0:54:46.960,0:54:48.960

can do that without them if we're going

0:54:48.079,0:54:51.200

to do it for

0:54:48.960,0:54:52.640

something for ourselves and but they're

0:54:51.200,0:54:54.559

always at the core of it

0:54:52.640,0:54:56.079

so that is our culture now the kids are

0:54:54.559,0:54:57.119

our culture and the the rest of the

0:54:56.079,0:54:59.440

family have to

0:54:57.119,0:55:01.200

have to be on board with that and that's

0:54:59.440,0:55:03.040

the shared experience

0:55:01.200,0:55:04.480

that oh well they've got the kids what

0:55:03.040,0:55:07.839

do they want to do um

0:55:04.480,0:55:09.839

and so a lot of that is

0:55:07.839,0:55:11.119

lindsay either coming in and saying

0:55:09.839,0:55:12.960

would you like me to take the kids for a

0:55:11.119,0:55:14.240

day or would you like me to

0:55:12.960,0:55:15.920

do you want to do something do you want

0:55:14.240,0:55:16.880

to all go somewhere together you know

0:55:15.920,0:55:19.040

and it's

0:55:16.880,0:55:20.559

it's again that support network we're

0:55:19.040,0:55:21.920

very lucky we've got

0:55:20.559,0:55:23.839

people around us that want to be

0:55:21.920,0:55:26.000

involved

0:55:23.839,0:55:27.599

yeah i think we kind of adapted didn't

0:55:26.000,0:55:30.000

we we

0:55:27.599,0:55:30.880

like the kids at the forefront of all

0:55:30.000,0:55:33.440

our minds like

0:55:30.880,0:55:34.960

we know that if we all want to go out

0:55:33.440,0:55:36.400

somewhere brewster's is probably going

0:55:34.960,0:55:38.400

to be the best bet

0:55:36.400,0:55:40.000

because we will get time to eat our food

0:55:38.400,0:55:43.359

while they're in the play pit

0:55:40.000,0:55:43.920

um and the staff there knows all because

0:55:43.359,0:55:46.960

of that

0:55:43.920,0:55:48.720

so it is it's nice and

0:55:46.960,0:55:50.079

i mean when your nephew goes can we go

0:55:48.720,0:55:52.480

with frankie and benny's this time

0:55:50.079,0:55:54.240

because i want some pancakes

0:55:52.480,0:55:55.440

then you know that you've done something

0:55:54.240,0:55:56.720

right that they want to go and have

0:55:55.440,0:56:00.319

breakfast with you

0:55:56.720,0:56:02.799

yeah um and but they're used to that

0:56:00.319,0:56:06.319

they know

0:56:02.799,0:56:08.880

like the places we will go um

0:56:06.319,0:56:11.200

and they're really two really good kids

0:56:08.880,0:56:13.119

for that reason i think

0:56:11.200,0:56:15.119

like they know you know the rules

0:56:13.119,0:56:18.640

they'll bend them but they know them

0:56:15.119,0:56:22.000

just like a good any good adult right

0:56:18.640,0:56:22.000

exactly i know the rules

0:56:22.559,0:56:26.079

lindsay thank you so much for covering

0:56:24.799,0:56:26.880

for joining us it's been great to have

0:56:26.079,0:56:29.839

your

0:56:26.880,0:56:32.559

your perspectives i think we went a

0:56:29.839,0:56:35.920

little off talking excellent

0:56:32.559,0:56:37.839

that's the way it always goes hi this is

0:56:35.920,0:56:38.640

ryan thanks for checking out life is it

0:56:37.839,0:56:40.319

just me

0:56:38.640,0:56:42.559

don't forget to subscribe wherever you

0:56:40.319,0:56:44.240

get your podcasts and also on youtube

0:56:42.559,0:56:47.280

for the video version

0:56:44.240,0:56:50.319

and come over and check out our website

0:56:47.280,0:56:51.359

which is life is it just dot me for all

0:56:50.319,0:56:54.240

our latest info

0:56:51.359,0:56:59.119

and updates and thanks again we'll see

0:56:54.240,0:57:01.200

you soon

0:56:59.119,0:57:01.200

you

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