Chinese Australian Whispers

In this episode you have an opportunity to meet Nik. Nikolaus Yee is my nephew and has helped edit and bring this podcast series to fruition. Nik’s father was born in Myanmar to Chinese parents and he came to Australia in the early 1980s. In creating ‘Chinese Australian Whispers’ Nik and I listened to all the interviews and oral histories. We found we had a few things we wanted to say about them too!

Further reading:

Featuring:

Transcript in progress. Available soon.

This episode was created with in-kind support from the Museum of Chinese Australian History, the Chinese Australian Family Historians of Victoria, Dr Sophie Couchman and Nikolaus Yee.

This project gratefully acknowledges the Local History Grants Program and Public Record Office Victoria, supported by the Victorian Government through the Community Support Fund.

Chinese Australian Whispers is made with Jetpack Podcast. Full show notes and every episode at https://sophiecouchman.com/

Wang Zheng-Ting composed and performed the music for this podcast. In this episode Sophie Couchman talks with him about his research as an ethnomusicologist and how being Chinese Australian has shaped his musical development.

Further reading:

Featuring:

Transcript in progress. Available soon.

This episode was created with in-kind support from the Museum of Chinese Australian History, the Chinese Australian Family Historians of Victoria, Dr Sophie Couchman and Nikolaus Yee.

This project gratefully acknowledges the Local History Grants Program and Public Record Office Victoria, supported by the Victorian Government through the Community Support Fund.

Chinese Australian Whispers is made with Jetpack Podcast. Full show notes and every episode at https://sophiecouchman.com/

Bananas are, and were, big business but also dangerous. They were integral to the family fortunes of Peter and William.

In this episode Sophie speaks with family historian Peter Liefman, whose grandfather was a large wholesale banana merchant with connections to lawyer William Ah Ket. We discuss an oral history recording with William Sang Fong who worked in the fruit and vegetable wholesaling business with his father.

Further reading:

Featuring:

Transcript in progress. Available soon.

This episode was created with in-kind support from the Museum of Chinese Australian History, the Chinese Australian Family Historians of Victoria, Dr Sophie Couchman and Nikolaus Yee.

This project gratefully acknowledges the Local History Grants Program and Public Record Office Victoria, supported by the Victorian Government through the Community Support Fund.

Chinese Australian Whispers is made with Jetpack Podcast. Full show notes and every episode at https://sophiecouchman.com/

Music, war and broken families both feature in Paula and Fay’s family histories but the thing that connects them most of all is a town. Ballarat.

In this episode Sophie speaks with family historian Paula Herlihy, whose grandfather was adopted when her great grandfather left her great grandmother with a large family to raise. We discuss an oral history recording with Fay Anderson whose grandfather was a prominent Ballarat herbalist, F.S. Goon, who later settled in Hong Kong.

Further reading:

Featuring:

Transcript in progress. Available soon.

This episode was created with in-kind support from the Museum of Chinese Australian History, the Chinese Australian Family Historians of Victoria, Dr Sophie Couchman and Nikolaus Yee.

This project gratefully acknowledges the Local History Grants Program and Public Record Office Victoria, supported by the Victorian Government through the Community Support Fund.

Chinese Australian Whispers is made with Jetpack Podcast. Full show notes and every episode at https://sophiecouchman.com/

Rural Australia, family businesses and rebellion connect Marie and Wally’s families but there is much that is different about their families’ experiences too.

In this episode Sophie speaks with family historian Marie Hammond, whose father worked as a market gardener, cabinetmaker and finally ran a general store in Red Cliffs (Vic). We discuss an oral history recording with Wally Kwan whose father ran a general store in Stanthorpe (Qld) which was part of the large Kwong Sing & Co network of rural stores.

Further reading:

Featuring:

Transcript in progress. Available soon.

This episode was created with in-kind support from the Museum of Chinese Australian History, the Chinese Australian Family Historians of Victoria, Dr Sophie Couchman and Nikolaus Yee.

This project gratefully acknowledges the Local History Grants Program and Public Record Office Victoria, supported by the Victorian Government through the Community Support Fund.

Chinese Australian Whispers is made with Jetpack Podcast. Full show notes and every episode at https://sophiecouchman.com/

Market gardens, hawkers and the Queen Vic Market connect two Chinese Australian families in Coburg in Melbourne, Australia and Wonggaili, Xinhui, Guangdong (旺嘉里, 新会, 广东) in southern China.

In this episode Sophie speaks with family historian Terry Young, whose grandfather was a market gardener and his father a worked at the Queen Victoria Markets. We discuss an oral history recording with Alex Woon whose father, Alexander Ah Woon, also worked in the Queen Victoria Markets.

Further reading:

Featuring:

Transcript in progress. Available soon.

This episode was created with in-kind support from the Museum of Chinese Australian History, the Chinese Australian Family Historians of Victoria, Dr Sophie Couchman and Nikolaus Yee.

This project gratefully acknowledges the Local History Grants Program and Public Record Office Victoria, supported by the Victorian Government through the Community Support Fund.

Chinese Australian Whispers is made with Jetpack Podcast. Full show notes and every episode at https://sophiecouchman.com/

‘Chinese Australian Whispers’ is about oral histories and researching your Chinese Australian family. It explores how memories and stories pass through the generations and the gaps and distortions that are created over time as a result. This podcast was born of the idea that there is much of value in oral history recordings for family historians, in particular those with Chinese ancestry.

Join Professional Historian and Curator Dr Sophie Couchman as she speaks with four members of CAFHOV (Chinese Australian Family Historians of Victoria): Terry Young, Marie Hammond, Paula Herlihy and Peter Liefman. Each CAFHOV member selected and listened to an oral history recorded by Sophie for the Museum of Chinese Australian history in 2010-11. We then recorded a discussion about the oral history.

Each podcast episode weaves together the family history of the CAFHOV member, the oral history interview and also what made listening to the oral history special. In the process we explore the complexities of an Australian identity.

Episode 1: Terry and Alex on market gardens (25.18 minutes)

Episode 2: Marie and Wally on general stores (40.29 minutes)

Episode 3: Paula and Fay on Ballaarat (33.25 minutes)

Episode 4: Peter and William on bananas (26.10 minutes)

Episode 5: Wang Zheng Ting on music (25.21 minutes)

Episode 6: Sophie and Nik on Chinese Australian Whispers (40.48 minutes)

The full podcast will be launched on Tuesday, 4 March 2025 at the Chinese Museum. You will be able to listen to all the episodes here on this website or via your favorite podcasting app (eg. Apple podcasts, Spotify, Castbox, Podbean).

Further reading:

Featuring:

00:00:30 Sophie
Hello. Chinese Australian Whispers is about the value of oral history recordings for family historians.
00:00:37 Sophie
It’s about how memories and stories pass through the generations and the gaps and the distortions that are created as a result over time.
00:00:47 Sophie
My name is Doctor Sophie Couchman and I’m a professional historian and curator.
00:00:52 Sophie
I recorded my first oral history interview with Marjorie Law back in 1990.
00:00:57 Sophie
One many others have followed, and these have joined more than 300 oral histories recorded with Australians that have Chinese ancestry in public collections around Australia.
00:01:10 Sophie
However, while the number of these recordings have been growing, I’ve not seen them widely used or known about. Through my involvement in the Chinese Australian Family
00:01:20 Sophie
Historians of Victoria, CAFHOV for short,
00:01:23 Sophie
I could see that oral histories had the potential to be of great value for family historians.
00:01:30 Sophie
This podcast explores what that value might be.
00:01:35 Sophie
Four members of CAFOV, Terry Young, Marie Hammond, Paula Herlihy and Peter Liefman volunteered to select an oral history I had recorded back in 2010 and 2011.
00:01:50 Sophie
We then recorded a discussion about that oral history recording and its value to their family history research.
00:01:58 Sophie
This then became the basis of each episode of the podcast.
00:02:03 Sophie
Each person brought their own approach to this task.
00:02:07 Sophie
Most didn’t get what they initially thought they would out of listening to the oral history, but all gained something from the experience.
00:02:26 Sophie
The podcasts title –
00:02:27 Sophie
Chinese
00:02:28 Sophie
Australian Whispers – is a play on a children’s game which in the United Kingdom, Australia and New Zealand is called ‘Chinese Whispers’. In the game a message is whispered from child to child, distorting as its misheard
00:02:43 Sophie
along the way. It’s an ancient game with a history dating waaay back to at least Medici’s Italy.
00:02:52 Sophie
It’s gone by many names over time.
00:02:55 Sophie
In Australia in the early 1860s, it was initially called ‘Russian Scandal’.
00:03:01 Sophie
Then, by the turn of the century, it was known as ‘Russian Gossip’ and eventually sometime in the mid 20th century it became popularly known as ‘Chinese Whispers’.
00:03:14 Sophie
We don’t know why this racialised language was used for the game.
00:03:18 Sophie
It appears to be a popular response to tensions between the British Empire and the Russian, and then Chinese empires.
00:03:26 Sophie
Through its title, the game depicts these empires as untrustworthy and draws on the perceived inscrutability of their language and culture today.
00:03:37 Sophie
It’s less offensive to call the game by one of its alternative names: ‘Broken
00:03:41 Sophie
Telephone’, ‘Gossip’ or ‘Rumours’.
00:03:45 Sophie
Now, while this phrase clearly has racist undertones, I really wanted to reclaim it for this podcast.
00:03:53 Sophie
As a metaphor, it beautifully encapsulates the complex processes whereby people’s family history is selectively passed down through the generations, changing as its told, heard and retold.
00:04:09 Sophie
It’s also a poignant illustration of how the recording of memories in oral histories is a mediated process shaped by the kinds of questions asked by the interviewer,
00:04:20 Sophie
the willingness and ability of the interviewee to answer them, and then how they’re eventually interpreted by the listener.
00:04:39 Sophie
Chinese
00:04:39 Sophie
Australian Whispers has 6 episodes: 4 feature members of the Chinese Australian Family Historians of Victoria discussing an oral history recording.
00:04:50 Sophie
The last two are slightly different.
00:04:52 Sophie
One’s an interview with composer and musician Wang Zheng-Ting.
00:04:56 Sophie
Ting discusses the music he composed specially for the podcast and how being Chinese Australian has shaped his musical practise.
00:05:06 Sophie
The final episode in the podcast is a discussion between myself and Nikolaus Yee.
00:05:12 Sophie
Nik helped me bring this podcast series together and we found that in the process of doing this, we were having conversations about the issues it raised that we also wanted to share with you.
00:05:24 Sophie
Now that we’ve finished, we’re really looking forward to hearing about what you, our listeners, gain from listening to the podcast and the ideas it raises.
00:05:32 Sophie
We also hope that Chinese Australian Whispers encourages you to have a listen to some of the many oral histories that are out there.
00:05:41 Sophie
Check our show notes for a list of oral histories with Australians with Chinese ancestry in public collections.
00:05:48 Sophie
And please do share a link to the podcast if you think others will enjoy it.
00:05:54 Sophie
I’m looking forward to having you join me in our first episode where we will meet Terry Young, who listened to an interview I recorded with Alex Woon.
00:06:04 Sophie
Amongst other things, we discuss Chinese market gardens and the Queen Victoria market.
00:06:11 Sophie
This podcast was created and produced by Doctor Sophie Couchman and Nikolaus Yee in partnership with the Museum of Chinese Australian History and the Chinese Australian Family
00:06:21 Sophie
Historians of Victoria. Music was composed and performed by Wang Zheng-Ting.
00:06:27 Sophie
And finally, we would like to gratefully acknowledge the Local History Grants Programme and the Public Records Office of Victoria, which are supported by the Victorian Government through the Community Support Fund.

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This episode was created with in-kind support from the Museum of Chinese Australian History, the Chinese Australian Family Historians of Victoria, Dr Sophie Couchman and Nikolaus Yee.

This project gratefully acknowledges the Local History Grants Program and Public Record Office Victoria, supported by the Victorian Government through the Community Support Fund.

Chinese Australian Whispers is made with Jetpack Podcast. Full show notes and every episode at https://sophiecouchman.com/