What happens when you’ve built the career you thought you wanted… and realize you might be ready for something completely different?

Dr. Jen Cole spent more than 25 years in veterinary medicine, built two veterinary practices with her husband, raised three children, and eventually made the decision to step away from hospital life.

But she wasn’t done with veterinary medicine.

Today, Jen is the author of the Rooster and Squid children’s book series, using storytelling to teach kids about animals, veterinary medicine, and how they can become better advocates for their own pets.

In this episode, we talk about knowing when it’s time to move on, separating who you are from what you do, building a career alongside a family, and giving yourself permission to figure out what comes next.

We also get into some of the harder lessons Jen learned during 25+ years in practice: firing clients, letting go of team members who are hurting your culture, realizing that nobody is irreplaceable (including the owners), and learning that your hospital can continue to thrive without you.

Jen shares what retirement actually felt like after decades of being a veterinarian and practice owner, why she gave herself six months before saying yes to anything new, and how that space eventually led her to an entirely new creative career.

Then we dive into Rooster and Squid: why Jen believes kids can be some of the best advocates for their pets, how she learned to write and publish children's books, what she thinks about AI and human creativity, and what she's building next.

Most importantly, this conversation is a reminder that there isn't just one way to have a career in veterinary medicine. You can practice, own, lead, work part-time, raise a family, move into industry, create something completely new, or reinvent your career altogether.

Your career can change. Your impact doesn’t have to.

In this episode

• Knowing when it’s time to step away from clinical practice

• Separating your identity from being a veterinarian

• Why Jen gave herself six months after retirement before deciding what came next

• Building veterinary practices while raising a family

• Being physically present versus actually being present with the people you love

• Why it’s okay to fire clients

• Letting go of people who are negatively affecting your hospital culture

• Why “nobody is irreplaceable” can actually be a healthy leadership lesson

• The many different ways to build a career in veterinary medicine

• Turning 25+ years of veterinary experience into children's stories

• Why kids can be powerful advocates for their pets

• Writing, illustrating, and publishing the Rooster and Squid series

• AI, authorship, and the value of human creativity

• Jen’s upcoming search-and-rescue series inspired by veterinary emergency response work

Connect with Dr. Jen Cole

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/roosterandsquid/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61553831672190

LinkedIn (Jen Cole, DVM): https://www.linkedin.com/in/jen-cole-dvm-208b642a1/

Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.com/roosterandsquid/

Threads: https://www.threads.com/@roosterandsquid

​YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@RoosterandSquid

Lucid Books (Dr. Cole's Publisher)

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lucid_books/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lucidbookspublishing/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/lucid-books

Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.com/lucidbookspub/

X: https://x.com/Lucid_Books

Choose People Love Pets is the veterinary culture podcast exploring leadership, workplace culture, career possibilities, and the people working to build a brighter future for veterinary medicine.

People. Culture. A Brighter Vet Med.

Hospital ownership can sound like the natural next step in a veterinary career, but ownership isn’t a promotion. It’s a completely different job.

In this first solo episode, Dr. Brianna Armstrong breaks down three questions to ask yourself before deciding whether veterinary hospital ownership is actually right for you.

Do you really want ownership, or are you looking for more autonomy, better leadership, a different schedule, or a healthier workplace? Do you enjoy the actual work of ownership, including leadership, finances, systems, hiring, accountability, and solving problems? And are you willing to take on the responsibility that comes with having more control?

Dr. Armstrong shares what she loves about hospital ownership, what she didn’t know when she started, why being a great veterinarian doesn’t automatically mean you’ll enjoy running a business, and practical ways to get closer to the business side of veterinary medicine before taking the leap.

In this episode:

• Why ownership shouldn’t be the default finish line of a veterinary career

• The “perfect associate job” test for deciding what you actually want

• Why enjoying business problems matters more than already knowing business

• The relationship between control and responsibility

• How to test-drive leadership and ownership before investing in a hospital

• Different paths to ownership, from partnerships and buy-ins to de novos and solo ownership

• Why talking to current owners may be one of the best ways to figure out your next move

If ownership makes you nervous but also gets you a little excited, you don’t have to decide today. Get curious, get closer to the business, and figure out whether you actually like the job before worrying about how to buy one.

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Being a nice leader sounds like a good thing. Until being nice means avoiding the conversations your team actually needs you to have. 

When leaders avoid accountability because they don’t want to hurt someone’s feelings, create conflict, or be disliked, they may be protecting someone’s comfort today while creating a much bigger problem tomorrow.

 In this episode of Choose People Love Pets, Dr. Armstrong and Phoebe unpack the difference between leading nice andleading kind and why kindness sometimes requires saying the uncomfortable thing. 

They talk about coaching struggling employees, addressing uncomfortable issues, holding people accountable, protecting your highest performers, firing difficult clients, and recognizing when letting someone go may actually be the kindest decision. 

Because kindness without accountability isn’t kindness. 

In this episode:

• Why nice leadership can create resentment, confusion, and burnout
• The difference between protecting someone's feelings and actually supporting them
• Why your best employees notice when poor performance goes unchecked
• How to approach difficult feedback with empathy
• Why being liked is not the same as being trusted
• How avoiding accountability creates unfairness across your team
• Why difficult conversations get easier with practice
• How leaders model the standards they expect from everyone else
• When letting someone go can still be a kind leadership decision

 This episode’s challenge: Identify one conversation you’ve been avoiding. 

Then ask yourself: Am I avoiding this because it’s actually best for them and the team, or because having it would make me uncomfortable? 

The conversation you avoid today becomes the problemyou manage tomorrow. 

Comfort is not the goal of leadership. Growth is. 

Nice leaders avoid hard conversations. Kind leadershave them.

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Modern Animal’s acquisition by Chewy has become one of the most significant and debated developments in veterinary medicine.In this episode, Dr. Christie Long joins Dr. Brianna Armstrong to share her unconventional journey from software and operations to veterinary medicine and eventually becoming Chief Medical Officer of Modern Animal. Dr. Long explains the original vision behind Modern Animal, the challenges of scaling its technology-enabled and membership-based model, and the lessons the company learned while expanding beyond California.Dr. Long also discusses the financial realities of building a venture-backed veterinary company, why the fundraising environment became more difficult, and what led Modern Animal to join Chewy. Dr. Armstrong and Dr. Long address concerns surrounding corporate consolidation, vertical integration, pharmacy, insurance, pricing, and what Chewy’s expanding healthcare ecosystem could mean for independent veterinary hospitals. Dr. Long also responds to the public reaction surrounding the acquisition and explains why personal relationships may remain independent practices’ greatest competitive advantage.This is a candid conversation about entrepreneurship, culture, scale, ownership, and what the Modern Animal and Chewy partnership could signal for the future of veterinary medicine.Key Takeaways- The hardest part of building a veterinary company is not necessarily building the hospitals. It is creating jobs, career paths, leadership systems, and a culture that talented people want to join.- Growth exposes assumptions. Modern Animal’s rapid success in Southern California did not automatically translate into other markets, forcing the company to rethink its branding, membership options, marketing, and accessibility.- Venture-backed growth creates a race against time. Companies must prove their model, reach meaningful scale, and attract additional capital before their financial runway ends.- Scale and independence are not the only two options. Christie views the acquisition as a way to access capital, talent, technology, and customers that could allow Modern Animal to pursue ideas it could not accomplish alone.- Independent practices still have a major advantage. Personal relationships and meaningful human connection remain difficult for any large organization to standardize or scale.- The future of veterinary medicine should not be framed only as corporate versus private. The more important questions may be who makes the decisions, how teams are treated, whether medical quality is protected, and whether the business creates genuine value for patients, clients, employees, and the profession. About Dr. Christie LongDr. Christie Long is a veterinarian, builder, and Chief Medical Officer of Modern Animal. Before entering veterinary medicine, she worked in software development, project management, and operations. Her career has included clinical practice, veterinary telehealth, corporate veterinary development, and the creation and expansion of Modern Animal’s technology-enabled veterinary hospitals.Through her work, Christie has focused on improving the veterinary experience for patients, clients, and the people delivering care. She now enters the next chapter of that work following Modern Animal’s acquisition by Chewy.ConnectLearn more about Modern Animal: https://www.modernanimal.com/Connect with Dr. Christie Long: https://www.linkedin.com/in/christie-long-dvm-b4b51a117/Follow Choose People Love Pets: If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with someone who needs to hear it.Follow for more: FB: ⁠https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61556480229406&mibextid=LQQJ4d⁠ IG: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/choosepeoplelovepets?igsh=MTVzZjc4ZHE4MWd2NQ%3D%3D&utm_source=qr⁠ LI: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/company/choose-people-love-pets/

What happens when the career you love is no longer sustainable? 

After decades of building a thriving mixed animal practice, Dr. Christine Staten found herself facing chronic pain that forced her to rethink what the next chapter of veterinary medicine could look like. Instead of stepping away from the profession, she went back to school for her MBA and created Veterinary MBA, a business dedicated to helping practice owners build practices that are profitable, sustainable, and fulfilling. 

In this episode, we dive into the mindset behind her incredible career, why she believes burnout isn't inevitable, and how intentional systems—not working harder—allow practice owners to create more impact without sacrificing their lives. We also discuss leadership, mentorship, hiring, time management, community, AI, and the lessons she learned after losing her first five associates. 

Whether you're a practice owner, an aspiring leader, or simply trying to build a career with more purpose, this conversation is full of practical advice and honest reflections. 

In This Episode 

• Why Dr. Staten chose to expand her impact instead of slowing down 

• The health challenges that led her to reinvent her career 

• Going back to earn an MBA at 50 and how it transformed her leadership 

• Why Veterinary MBA was created and the mission behind it 

• Burnout, systems, and the biggest misconceptions about practice ownership 

• The importance of community for veterinary leaders 

• Why "work-life balance" is the wrong goal and what to pursue instead 

• Time audits, time blocking, and designing your life intentionally 

• Delegation, mentorship, and building systems that create freedom 

• Lessons learned after losing her first five associate veterinarians 

• Hiring for culture instead of just clinical skills 

• Building successful retreats and mentorship communities 

• How she approaches AI while keeping human connection at the center of leadership 

Connect with Dr. Christine Staten 

veterinary_mba

Adobe Veterinary Center: https://adobevetcenter.com/

Follow Dr. Christine Staten for practical insights on veterinary leadership, practice ownership, and building sustainable veterinary businesses. 

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with someone who needs to hear it. 

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Every leader wants employees to speak up—but if you constantly find yourself saying, "I wish someone had told me sooner," your open door policy may not be working the way you think. 

In this episode, Dr. Brianna Armstrong and Phoebe Valdez unpack why simply telling your team your door is always open isn't enough to create psychological safety. They explore the hidden power dynamics that make employees hesitate to speak honestly, why leaders often hear the truth only during exit interviews, and how great leaders intentionally create environments where feedback feels safe. 

You'll learn practical ways to move beyond passive accessibility and build a culture where your team feels comfortable sharing concerns, solving problems together, and helping your hospital continuously improve. 

In this episode, we discuss: 

• Why open door policies often fail  

• The hidden power dynamics every leader needs to understand  

• How employees perform a "risk calculation" before speaking up  

• The difference between accessibility and psychological safety  

• Why exit interviews reveal what leaders should have known all along  

• Practical ways to invite honest feedback  

• How curiosity—not defensiveness—builds trust  

• Simple leadership habits that create healthier teams  

 Key Takeaways 

• An open door policy doesn't automatically create trust.  

• Psychological safety must be intentionally built.  

• Employees often filter feedback because of the inherent power imbalance.  

• Leaders should actively seek feedback instead of waiting for it.  

• Anonymous surveys and regular one-on-ones provide safer opportunities for honesty.  

• Curiosity is more powerful than defensiveness.  

• The best cultures normalize disagreement and collaborative problem-solving.  

• Listening before solving strengthens relationships and often leads to better solutions.  

 Memorable Quotes 

"Just because the door is open doesn't mean people will walk through it." 

"People don't stay silent because they don't care. They stay silent because they're doing a risk calculation." 

"The information was always there. The environment wasn't." 

"Great hospitals don't avoid conflict. They get curious about it." 

"The quality of your leadership is hidden inside the feedback people are afraid to give." 

"Stop telling your team your door is open. Show them." 

Resources Mentioned 

• ✅ Anonymous Culture Survey Template: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1duOs1X1CmlLXlum74OLTnzuO2SOeyeJ2DIP4rCJNfMc/copy

 Call to Action 

If this episode challenged your thinking, send it to another leader who's trying to build a healthier workplace. 

Then try this with one team member this week: 

"What's one thing we could be doing better that you think I don't see?" 

Resist the urge to explain or solve the problem. Simply listen. 

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What if the biggest predictor of your success as a veterinarian isn't your medical knowledge—but your ability to communicate, lead, and connect with people? 

In this episode, Dr. Brianna Armstrong sits down with Dr. Dani McVety, veterinarian, entrepreneur, speaker, and co-founder of Lap of Love Veterinary Hospice, for an honest conversation about the experiences that shaped her career. From repeating a year of veterinary school and failing the NAVLE to building one of the largest veterinary organizations in the country, Dani shares the lessons that transformed setbacks into opportunities for growth. 

Together, they discuss the importance of communication in veterinary medicine, building trust with clients, creating strong teams, navigating entrepreneurship, balancing family and career, and what it really takes to lead through uncertainty. 

In this episode, we discuss: 

• Dani's early exposure to entrepreneurship and how her parents influenced her mindset 

• How volunteering in human hospice changed the way she views veterinary medicine 

• Why communication—not medicine—is often what clients remember most 

• The books, habits, and lifelong learning that shaped her leadership style 

• Repeating a year of veterinary school, failing the NAVLE, and embracing failure as part of success 

• Why emotional intelligence and bedside manner are essential clinical skills 

• Building Lap of Love from a side project into a nationwide organization 

• Choosing the right business partners and hiring for personality and values 

• Leadership lessons from scaling a rapidly growing company 

• Balancing entrepreneurship, motherhood, and family while building a career 

• The importance of emotional stability during times of stress and uncertainty 

• Why defining success on your own terms leads to a more fulfilling veterinary career 

Memorable Quotes 

• "Communication is what builds trust. Without trust, even the best medicine can't make an impact." 

• "No one will ever ask where you graduated in your class. They will remember how you made them feel." 

• "Failure isn't the end of your story. Often, it's where the most important growth begins." 

Connect with Dr. Dani McVety 

• Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/drdanimcvety/ 

• Instagram: @drdanimcvety 

• Facebook: @drdanimcvetyleinen 

• Website: lapoflove.com 

Connect with Dr. Brianna Armstrong 

• Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianna-armstrong-dvm/ 

• Instagram/facebook/tiktok: @drarmstrongdvm 

 Follow along for more conversations about leadership, career growth, and creating a sustainable, fulfilling life in veterinary medicine. 

 If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, leave a review, and share it with a colleague who could benefit from the conversation. 

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Have you ever wondered whether you're actually burned out on veterinary medicine—or just burned out by the place you're practicing it? 

In this episode, Dr. Brianna Armstrong and Phoebe Valdez tackle a difficult but important question: How do you know if you're in a toxic work environment? More importantly, what should you do when you've realized it's time to move on? 

Veterinary medicine itself is not inherently toxic. But some workplaces are. When we confuse the profession with the environment, we risk walking away from careers we once loved. 

This conversation explores the warning signs of toxic culture, why people stay longer than they should, how to evaluate your next workplace, and how to leave with integrity when it's time for a change. 

In This Episode 

5 Signs You May Be Working in a Toxic Environment 

1. Fear is Driving Behavior 

2. Problems Are Always People, Never Processes 

3. Turnover Is Constant 

4. Speaking Up Changes Nothing 

5. You Don't Feel Like Yourself Anymore 

Before You Leave 

If you're on the fence, consider having an honest conversation with leadership first. 

Approach the conversation with: 

• Curiosity instead of accusation  

• Specific examples  

• A desire to understand  

• A willingness to collaborate on solutions  

How leadership responds can tell you a lot about whether change is possible. 

How to Evaluate Your Next Hospital 

Before accepting a new position: 

• Talk to current team members.  

• Ask why previous employees left.  

• Read online reviews.  

• Request a working interview.  

• Observe how the team handles stress and conflict.  

• Ask about the hospital's values.  

• Make sure the culture aligns with your own values.  

Remember: hospitals interview candidates, but candidates should be interviewing hospitals too. 

How to Leave Your Hospital Well 

Leaving professionally protects your reputation and helps move veterinary medicine forward. 

Give Appropriate Notice 

• Read your employment contract carefully.  

• Follow any notice requirements outlined in your agreement.  

• At minimum, provide two weeks' notice.  

• For veterinarians, managers, and leadership roles, one to two months' notice is often more appropriate when possible.  

Stay Professional Until the End 

• Continue showing up and doing quality work.  

• Avoid disengaging or becoming negative.  

• Finish strong and leave your team in the best position possible.  

Don't Burn Bridges 

• Avoid dramatic exits.  

• Don't vent on social media.  

• Don't attempt to "get even."  

• Veterinary medicine is a small profession, and your reputation matters.  

Provide Constructive Feedback 

If you're asked why you're leaving: 

• Be honest.  

• Be specific.  

• Focus on behaviors and systems, not personal attacks.  

• Share feedback with the goal of helping future team members.  

Remember Your Goal 

The goal is not revenge. 

The goal is a healthier future for yourself. 

Key Takeaway 

Every time someone leaves a toxic workplace and chooses a healthy one, they're casting a vote for the future of veterinary medicine. 

Great hospitals deserve great people. 

And great people deserve great workplaces. 

Connect With Us 

Dr. Brianna Armstrong 
Instagram: @drarmstrongdvm 

Phoebe Valdez 
Instagram: @phoebe_valdezz 

If this episode resonated with you, share it with someone who may need to hear it. And if you have thoughts on toxic workplace culture in veterinary medicine, we'd love to hear from you. 

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In this episode, Dr. Brianna Armstrong sits down with veterinary leader and educator Dr. Eleanor Green for a deep conversation on leadership, veterinary education, innovation, and the future of the profession. 

Dr. Green reflects on her journey from aspiring equine veterinarian to becoming the first female dean at Texas A&M University College of Veterinary Medicine and later helping found the Lyon College School of Veterinary Medicine. Together, they explore how leadership evolves, how culture is shaped from the top down, and why adaptability may be one of the most important skills future veterinarians can develop. 

The conversation also dives into AI, virtual reality, simulation-based education, and how technology could fundamentally reshape veterinary medicine and veterinary schools in the coming decades. 

In This Episode 

• Dr. Green’s unexpected path into leadership  

• What it’s actually like to serve as a veterinary dean  

• Building healthy organizational culture in veterinary medicine  

• The importance of integrity, listening, and psychological safety  

• Being a woman leader in veterinary medicine during a very different era  

• Adaptability quotient vs resilience  

• Conflict resolution and leadership communication  

• Founding a new veterinary school vs leading an established institution  

• The origins of the Veterinary Innovation Summit  

• How CoVet AI and AI tools may reshape veterinary education  

• Virtual reality, simulations, and the future of clinical training  

• Why veterinary medicine must evolve to stay future-ready  

Memorable Quotes 

“Leaders make the lives of the people in their organization better.” 

“It’s not about career-ready veterinarians. It’s about future-ready veterinarians.” 

“Culture starts at the top.” 

“Our number one choice is for you to be happy here. Our number two choice is for you to be happy somewhere else.” 

Organizations & Topics Mentioned 

• Texas A&M University College of Veterinary Medicine  

• Lyon College School of Veterinary Medicine  

• Singularity University  

• Association of American Veterinary Medical Colleges  

• CoVet AI  

• Veterinary Innovation Summit  

• AI in veterinary medicine  

• Virtual reality and simulation training  

• Veterinary leadership and culture 

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Not all conflict is bad—but how someone talks about conflict in an interview can tell you everything. 

In this episode, we break down one powerful interview question that reveals whether a candidate brings ownership or blame into your culture. Because in any hospital, conflict is inevitable—but toxicity is optional. 

If you want a team that communicates, grows, and takes responsibility, this is the filter you can’t afford to skip. 

What You’ll Learn 

• The exact interview question that exposes mindset  

• Why conflict handling matters more than clinical skill  

• The difference between ownership vs. blame in candidate responses  

• Real examples of red flag vs. green flag answers  

• Why “on the fence” should almost always mean no hire  

• How small behaviors in interviews predict real client interactions  

The Question to Ask 

“Tell me about a time you had a conflict with a team member—what happened?” 

Then stop talking—and listen. 

Red Flags 🚩 

• Blames the other person, management, or the system  

• Avoids conflict altogether  

• Lacks self-reflection  

• Positions themselves as the “hero” in every story  

• Can’t identify their role in the breakdown  

👉 That mindset doesn’t change after you hire them. 

Green Flags ✅ 

• Takes ownership of their role in the conflict  

• Reflects on what they could have done differently  

• Shares how they approached resolution directly  

• Demonstrates growth and behavior change moving forward  

👉 “I could have communicated sooner…” 
👉 “I contributed to the tension by…” 

That’s self-awareness. That’s coachable. That’s culture-building. 

Key Takeaway 

Hire for ownership. 

You can train skills—but self-awareness and accountability are much harder to teach. 

Bonus Hiring Insight 

If you’re on the fence, it’s probably a no. 

The best hires feel like a clear yes—often within the first few minutes. Trust that signal and wait for the right people. 

Call to Action 

If this episode helped you think differently about hiring, share it with another veterinary leader or hospital manager. 

And if you want more episodes like this, send us a message or drop a comment—we’re building this for you. 

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