Dr. Samantha Bise and Rev. Dillon Epler discuss the history of the Sabbath and its connections to liberation, freedom, and resistance.

Dillon interviews Samantha. Samantha discusses why she is obsessed with learning about religious language, her book coming out in 2026, her strange reaction the moment she became “Dr. Bise,” and her decision not to go to seminary.

In this bonus episode, Samantha interviews Dillon. Dillon discusses his switch from law school to seminary, his years when he would not have considered himself a Christian, and the ways his job as a pastor is more about caring for people than convincing people.

Dr. Samantha Bise and Rev. Dillon Epler discuss the word “kenosis” and what it means for Jesus’ identity.

Dr. Samantha Bise and Rev. Dillon Epler discuss the meaning behind the sign of the cross.

Dr. Samantha Bise and Rev. Dillon Epler discuss Jesus’ supposed occupation as a “carpenter” and how it relates to labor rights, the growing gap between the wealthy and the poor, and money as an energy that flows in and out of our lives.

Dr. Samantha Bise and Rev. Dillon Epler discuss the “magi” in the story of Jesus’ birth.

Dr. Samantha Bise and Rev. Dillon Epler discuss what the “inn” in the nativity story actually is and how it relates to immigration and refugee issues.

Dr. Samantha Bise and Rev. Dillon Epler discuss the translation history of the word “virgin” in the Bible, Mary’s virginity, and the cultural context behind virginity throughout Christian history.

Samantha and Dillon have a lot to say about the word “salvation.”