In this Mother’s Day interview with Emily's Mom, Roni Arnold, we dive into a parent's perspective on deconstruction. We get into the nitty-gritty of what it's like to navigate when faith shifts in a family.

Roni shares how she came to faith in Jesus later in life and what it feels like to have a daughter who no longer identifies as a christian. She lets us in on how she often disagreed with the Evangelical beliefs she came across and felt grieved that Emily absorbed the more high-demand elements of Christianity. We hear how Roni’s faith leans more liberal when it comes to sex, hell, feminism, and queer people. You'll hear how she has empathy for Emily amid her doubts because Roni's got some of her own, too.

You'll hear Emily and Roni wrapping up a raw and tense moment that happened right before recording, so you’ll see some quick mother-daughter conflict resolution in real-time.

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We cover so much good stuff in this Q&A on Heather’s coming out as a lesbian! After sharing the timeline of processing her queerness in Part 1, Heather answers anonymous listener questions, like:

How she realized she was a lesbian and not bi (it was a PROCESS and we walk through it all)

How this relates to her former stories she’s shared about sex with men, masturbation, and leaving the church

Advice on how to come out when you have religious trauma

How she knew she was into women

How her parents reacted

What she thinks of the statement “everyone's a little gay” (we both have THOUGHTS)

Why establishing a queer identity is important to her

Dating stories and advice for someone who’s nervous to flirt

Thank you to the listeners who submitted questions! Enjoy this chat!

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In this fun-filled interview with Emily, Heather tells the story of thinking she was straight for her whole life until one fateful comment on a YouTube video led her to question everything. She talks about exactly how she realized she was into women and not into men (despite a long list of ex-boyfriends), an electrifying first kiss, an exciting jump into the queer dating scene, and the joys and pains of coming out as a lesbian.

In true Heather fashion, she busts out her journal to share a vulnerable entry, gets candid about signs of attraction to women she missed early in life, and shares the deep research that helped her come to terms with her sexuality after a life of thinking that "straight" was the only option.

If you've ever wondered how someone could not realize they were gay, if you're examining your own attractions, or you're just plain wanting All The Tea, you'll love this episode!

::: Listener Q&A to come next week in Part 2 :::

Resources:

Erica Smith & her Purity Culture Dropout Queer Support Group

Sermon by Brit Barron - this one isn't the exact one Emily watched, but it'll give you the gist of her wisdom.

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Emily and Heather dive into some nitty-gritty details about how we moved past the shame around our own sexualities. (Get ready for some very candid sex stories…) We discuss coming home to our own bodies and our own sexual ethic, how our parents handled sexual curiosity, and the awkward encounters we had along the way.

For the first time, Emily discusses her journey with thinking she was asexual, how she realized she wasn’t, and how she had to start over on establishing her own sexual values after her divorce.

Heather talks about how her and her siblings had to write essays on their philosophy of dating before they could start dating. We also read a story from someone who dated one of her siblings and learn what it was like to be on the receiving end of these intense dating rules.

We also read listener submissions on the weirdness of purity culture, including purity ceremonies, signed contracts, and crying over a friend losing their virginity.

Resources mentioned in this episode: 

Pure by Linda Kay Klein

Beyond Shame by Matthias Roberts

Heartbreak: A Personal and Scientific Journey

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It’s a purity culture grab bag! We cover purity messaging we are glad to have left in the past, how purity culture impacted our relationships, and how we’re navigating our sexualities now. It seems past sexual partners aren't what haunts us, it's Purity Culture itself!

We dive deep on how we were determined to follow the rules set before us by evangelical Christianity, and the differing ways we dealt with that. Whether we were “struggling with sexual sin,” going all the way, crying after masturbating, breaking up after breaking boundaries, or having guilt-ridden discussions with boyfriends, we each attempted to find ourselves in the midst of a lot of rules.

We talk about Bible verses that communicate that our bodies belong to our spouses — yikes — which leads to a discussion about marital expectations and how difficult it is to jump from virginity to being stoked about sex. We ponder marriage and whether we’re into it now that we’re out of evangelicalism’s marriage-focused culture. 

Finally, we talk about our current sexual ethic and how we’ve gotten in touch with ourselves amidst dating, divorce, serious relationships, casual sex, and so much more. 

Resources discussed in this episode:

Pure: Inside the Evangelical Movement that Shamed a Generation of Young Women and How I Broke Free

Refamulating Podcast

50 Reasons People Give for Believing in a God by Guy P. Harrison

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Whip out your Bibles, Baddies! In this post-Easter episode, Emily and Heather dive into the resurrection story with their deconstruction glasses on. Heather did some digging on the details that don’t align in the gospel narratives of Easter, from who was there to what time of day it was to where Jesus went afterwards. She shares how she ignored any discrepancies as a Christian but can now look at it with honesty and thoughtfulness as she decides what she thinks of it all.

We engage in a candid back-and-forth about the Christian response to the differences in the gospels, thoughts on if the differences can be reconciled, and whether or not the arguments for the resurrection story are convincing to them. 

Emily also discusses how Easter was a significant milestone in her deconstruction journey, what past Easters felt like while she was deep in doubt-land, and what the concept of resurrection means in her current spiritual worldview. 

We hope this episode challenges you and helps jumpstart your own research and thinking, wherever you are on your deconstruction journey! 

Fact Check: We got some feedback that the resurrection myths we shared aren't accurate, so please listen with caution. We're putting this here for extra emphasis that those derived from a quick google search, and we have very limited knowledge around other resurrection myths. We apologize for the misinformation.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Keith Long’s article, How Does The Resurrection Story Change In The Gospels?

The Bible passages referenced: Matthew 28, Mark 16, Luke 24, and John 20

Josh McDowell’s justification of the resurrection discrepancies

Rohr on Resurrection

Resurrection: A Threatening Comfort

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Christianity messed with our minds, and we get into it! We ask ourselves the question: Did our mental health get better or worse after leaving the church? And how was it when we were in the church?

Emily describes how a lot of her anxiety is night-and-day better because the burden of Christianity is lifted, and discusses how her faith was intertwined with her OCD. Heather talks about how her anxiety actually got worse in some ways after leaving, because she no longer had a God to dump all her worries onto and had to actually face the depths of her brain for the first time.

We focus on the stress that plagued us as devout Christians who felt a need to do everything right, and how confusing it was to receive conflicting messages of sin and grace. We share in the joy of how we feel more freedom now to just be humans, without so much worry about converting people, honoring God in every damn thing, and monitoring our behavior.

We both share what helps us deal with our anxiety now — medication! Internal Family Systems! Friends! Autonomy! Being free from our former God concept! 

Very importantly, we also close out by discussing VIBRATORS! And our shame in discussing them and even saying the word “masturbation” aloud. 

Other fun things:

Which meds we’re on :)

God’s voice adding to & becoming our anxiety

The Bachelor & MTV being “sinful”

Religious OCD

Shroom trips

Emily reads the Bible aloud for the first time in forever

The “playground for perfectionism” of Christian culture, and never measuring up

A pretty bad Rick Warren quote

Blindly pondering about what today’s youth groups are like

Getting kicked off the roster of people who were asked to volunteer at youth group summer camp (whoops!)

Resources mentioned:

This Instagram post by The Naked Pastor

D.L. Mayfield’s Substack: Healing is My Special Interest

Our episode with Beth K. Schwartz

The Religious Trauma Institute — this is how Emily found her therapist!

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Emily and Heather wince and crack up as they read from journals they devoted themselves to as Christian tweens, Biola students, Saddleback staff members, and more. Enjoy their cringey entries, ranging from "Daddy God" prayers to mission trip insights to frenetically anxious prayers. 

You'll hear how Emily was guilty about all her doubts about God and often wondered if she was honoring God enough through her homework. Heather renewed her broken purity vows over and over, and proves in her journal shares that she was indeed, an earnest Christian, despite what her current internet trolls claim. 

Reflecting on their past beliefs, struggles, and growth since leaving their evangelical upbringing behind, and pondering on what they'd tell their younger selves now, your CGGB hosts offer a heartfelt glimpse into the reality of growing up in the church. 

Keep your ears peeled for the special, first-time CGGB inclusion of listener voice memos as well. Thank you to all who sent these in!

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Do we still believe in God? Let's chat: losing belief, spiritual encounters, and leaving the church "just to sin"! Emily introduces the new co-host of CGGB and former guest, Heather Leith. We talk about where we've been since the listeners last heard from us and spill the tea on why Lauren is no longer hosting.

Heather comes out as an atheist! She explains how she went from identifying as a progressive Christian back in Season 1 to now being a big, bad ex-Christian. She discusses how digging into her faith caused it to fall apart and where she finds meaning now as a nonbeliever.

Emily chats about her newfound freedom in being curious without certainty as the end goal, and shares about a recent spiritual experience that she can't quite explain. She also talks about being more settled in her post-evangelical life and why she's not going as crazy for deconstruction stuff as she used to.

We also touch on:

Developing a sexual ethic without purity culture

"Church hurt" and what happens when you were the one doing the hurting

How heartbreaking deconstruction can be when you're in the middle of it

Feeling brainwashed about women pastors in the past

Thinking they were cool for going to "deep" churches

Critiquing the Southern Baptist Convention

Secretly watching debates with atheists while at Bible college

Resources mentioned in the episode:

The Atheist Experience YouTube channel — Heather likes Matt Dillahunty and Forrest Valkai episodes in particular, but beware this channel can get INTENSE!

Bart Ehrman's Misquoting Jesus podcast — Helpful for understanding how the gospels were written and how the Bible was put together

Some podcasts that Emily's partner works on that you might like: You Have Permission, Emerged

This Dear Evan Hansen song lol

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Back in June 2022, High Noons in-hand, we recorded this episode with Tate and Katy, who were not "The Logans" at the time, but have since gotten married which is SO FUN. This conversation was too important to leave in the gmail archives, so one day in April 2023, Emily decided it was time to move this to the top of her to-do list and get this out to the world.

We want you to hear their stories, both individually and together, about journeying through adolescence as queer kids in the south, navigating betrayal, understanding what it means to be trans, falling in love, and much more. You'll even get to find out what happened on that fateful day at Zaxby's.

From learning about the epic way Tate's mom responded to him coming out to solidifying that Katy should in fact pursue stand-up comedy, this conversation was quite the emotional rollercoaster - but the kind that's definitely worth waiting for in line at Six Flags. (And by emotional rollercoaster, we mean there was lots of laughing and then surprise crying. And yes, Emily was the one shedding tears as per usual.)

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To find Tate and follow his music, entertaining TikTok, and listen to the podcast he hosts on Idobi Radio, head here: @tatexlogan / www.tatelogan.com

And lurk Katy too because she's the best: @katyxlogan

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