Church Staff Book Club

Every leader fails. The question isn't whether it'll happen... it's what you do with it when it does.

In this episode of the Church Staff Book Club, Jonathan Malm and Jason Young kick off their third book: How to Get a Return on Failure by John Maxwell. Chapter 1 reframes the way leaders think about failure. From something to avoid at all costs to something that, when handled well, actually pays you back.

🎧 What We Cover in This Episode:

• Why most people treat failure as final and why that's costing them
• The difference between you failing and being a failure
• Why avoiding failure has a cost too (and we rarely count it)
• Small risks vs. big risks: the fencing approach to leadership
• Jason's story: 210 volunteers quit in one day and what happened next
• Why school is actually the safest place to fail (and we've made it terrifying)
• Planning for failure: anti-faith or just smart leadership?
• What your first reaction to failure reveals vs. what you do next
• The Moses principle: why God rarely gives you the full picture up front

📖 We're Reading: How to Get a Return on Failure by John Maxwell.

💬 Key Quotes from This Episode:

"You are not a failure. That thing you did might have failed, but that's not your identity."

"Your first reaction to failure is the human part of you. What you do next is the leadership part."

"If we don't take risks, things naturally decline."

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Grab How to Get a Return on Failure by John Maxwell and read along with us

Most ministry leaders are great at launching new things. But what about ending them? That's where things get messy — and where so much unnecessary pain in churches actually comes from.

In this season finale of the Church Staff Book Club, Jonathan Malm and Jason Young wrap up The Emotionally Healthy Leader by Peter Scazzero with Chapter 9: "Endings and Beginnings." If you're holding onto something that needs to die — a program, a role, a relationship, a season — this conversation is for you.

What We Cover in This Episode:

• Why leaders are wired to add things and terrified to end them
• How "keeping the peace" often just delays pain and elongates it
• The subtle drain of holding onto something past its season
• Why endings feel like failure — and how to reframe them as release, obedience, or completion
• Jonathan's exercise for SundaySocial: "What would we build if we started today?"
• Why endings are actually a vital part of your spiritual formation
• How to love people through an ending... before, during, and after
• Why messy endings are normal, and what to do when you're in one
• Don't bypass the grief... what it means and why it matters

We Finished Reading: The Emotionally Healthy Leader by Peter Scazzero Tune in next week to find out what book we're reading next!

Key Quotes from This Episode:

"Every new beginning starts from some other beginning's end."

"Endings feel like loss, even when they're right."

"It's less about quitting and more about releasing. Less about defeat and more about obedience."

Connect & Subscribe:

📱 Follow us on social media and join the conversation

🔔 Subscribe so you never miss a chapter

📚 Grab The Emotionally Healthy Leader and read along with us

Nobody in ministry wants to talk about power. We talk about humility instead. But ignoring your power doesn't make it go away. It just makes it dangerous.

In this episode of the Church Staff Book Club, Jonathan Malm and Jason Young dig into Chapter 8 of The Emotionally Healthy Leader by Peter Scazzero: "Acknowledging Power and Boundaries." Jonathan calls it his favorite chapter in the book and possibly the one that explains more of what goes wrong in churches than any other.

🎧 What We Cover in This Episode:

• Why "unexamined power becomes harmful power" and what to do about it
• The 6 sources of power every church leader carries (whether they know it or not)
• Why the Me Too movement is really a story about unacknowledged power
• How megachurch pastoral abuse happens and why it's not just a megachurch problem
• The blurry lines between pastor, friend, boss, and discipler and why they matter
• Why pastors are so lonely (and why it's actually structural)
• What healthy boundaries actually look like in church staff relationships
• Why "no" is a complete sentence and why ministry leaders can't seem to say it

📖 We're Reading: The Emotionally Healthy Leader by Peter Scazzero Follow along chapter by chapter with us each week!

💬 Key Quotes from This Episode:
"We don't talk about power because it feels dirty. We talk about humility because it feels clean."
"Unexamined power becomes harmful power."
"Every yes and no has a cost."

🔗 Connect & Subscribe:
📱 Follow us on social media and join the conversation
🔔 Subscribe so you never miss a chapter
📚 Grab The Emotionally Healthy Leader and read along with us

The culture your team lives in isn't something that just happens... It's something you create. And if it's unhealthy, the first place to look is in the mirror.

In this episode of the Church Staff Book Club, Jonathan Malm and Jason Young dig into Chapter 7 of The Emotionally Healthy Leader by Peter Scazzero: "How to Build an Emotionally Healthy Team." This is the chapter where everything gets practical, not just for you as a leader, but for the people you lead every single day.

🎧 What We Cover in This Episode:

• Why you're a thermostat, not a thermometer, and what that means for your team
• The "cage the tiger" principle and why we avoid it (and shouldn't)
• Why values on the wall mean nothing without a leader who lives them
• The difference between ignoring someone's faults and making allowance for them
• How to address the elephant in the room without blowing up the team
• Why healthy conflict actually strengthens culture, not weakens it
• What a genuinely healthy church staff culture looks like in practice
• Jonathan's take: should churches under 1,000 stop hiring specialists?

📖 We're Reading: The Emotionally Healthy Leader by Peter Scazzero Follow along chapter by chapter with us each week!

💬 Key Quotes from This Episode:

"Culture is what people experience, not what you announce."

"Who you are becomes the culture."
"When you avoid conflict, you actually weaken the culture."

🔗 Connect & Subscribe:

📱 Follow us on social media and join the conversation

🔔 Subscribe so you never miss a chapter

📚 Grab The Emotionally Healthy Leader and read along with us

Most ministry leaders make decisions the same way they do everything else: fast. But speed might be costing you more than you think.

In this episode of the Church Staff Book Club, Jonathan Malm and Jason Young dig into Chapter 6 of The Emotionally Healthy Leader by Peter Scazzero: "Planning and Decision Making." This is where all that inner work finally meets real life... how you actually lead, plan, and make calls that shape your church and your team.

🎧 What We Cover in This Episode:

• Why fast decisions often bypass the deep discernment your ministry actually needs
• What gets lost when church leaders make decisions in isolation
• The difference between doing things for God vs. doing things with God
• Why community slows you down and why that's exactly the point
• How to approach decisions with indifference (and why that's a superpower)
• Why emotions are data, not directives and how that changes everything
• The danger of mistaking a good idea for a God idea

📖 We're Reading: The Emotionally Healthy Leader by Peter Scazzero Follow along chapter by chapter with us each week!

💬 Key Quotes from This Episode:

"Just because it's good doesn't mean it's from God."

"Listening is leadership."

"God's guidance is often in line with peace, not pressure."

🔗 Sponsor: Lobby Labs A community and coaching group built for guest services, first impressions, and connections leaders. Learn from high-level churches, solve problems faster, and find margin to actually hear from God. lobbylabs.co

🔗 Connect & Subscribe:

📱 Follow us on social media and join the conversation

🔔 Subscribe so you never miss a chapter

📚 Grab The Emotionally Healthy Leader and read along with us

There's a big difference between a day off and a Sabbath, and most church leaders are only getting one of them.

In this episode of the Church Staff Book Club, Jonathan Malm and Jason Young dig into Chapter 5 of The Emotionally Healthy Leader by Peter Scazzero: "Practice Sabbath Delight." If you've ever felt guilty for resting, struggled to stop working, or wondered why rest never actually restores you... this conversation is for you.

🎧 What We Cover in This Episode:

• Why Sabbath is more than a day off and what actually restores your soul
• How our addiction to productivity is quietly destroying our leadership
• The lies church leaders believe about rest (and why we keep believing them)
• Why identity tied to work is a red flag and how Sabbath exposes it
• What happens to your team when you lead from depletion vs. replenishment
• How to start small: a practical 2-hour Sabbath practice anyone can try this week
• Why practicing Sabbath is actually an act of rebellion against hustle culture

📖 We're Reading: The Emotionally Healthy Leader by Peter Scazzero Follow along chapter by chapter with us each week!

💬 Key Quotes from This Episode:
"If we do not choose rest, exhaustion will choose us."
"Sabbath is God's weekly rescue plan... a declaration that God runs the world, not me."
You're not being unique by being a hustling leader. What if you rebelled against that?"

🔗 Connect & Subscribe:
📱 Follow us on social media and join the conversation
🔔 Subscribe so you never miss a chapter
📚 Grab The Emotionally Healthy Leader and read along with us

Most church leaders are quick to focus on growth metrics but neglect the vital, secret ingredient: cultivating loving union with God. What if the key to sustained, healthy leadership isn’t just doing more for God but actually being with Him in deeper intimacy? Jason Young and Jonathan Malm unravel the vital mistakes pastors often make—speed, busyness, and a focus on performance—that drown out the whisper of God’s presence and lead to burnout and moral failure. In this episode, discover why the most driven leaders are often the most spiritually disconnected. We break down how speed and ambition shield us from self-awareness and intimacy with Jesus, showing how neglecting the elementary practices of slowing down, solitude, and Sabbath can quietly sabotage your leadership and personal health. You’ll hear stories of spiritual failures that happen behind the scenes, despite outward success—and why that disconnect is more common than we think. We explore practical tools like finding your desert, forming a rule of life, and creating rhythms of silence that rebuild your heart’s connection with God.We challenge the myth that productivity equals spiritual health, emphasizing that true leadership flows from loving union—an intentional, slower pace that invites God’s reorganization of priorities. If you’re overwhelmed, craving deeper connection, or worried about burnout, this episode will empower you to slow down and rediscover Jesus in the quiet. Perfect for pastors, ministry leaders, and anyone feeling the weight of relentless speed—this episode reveals how to lead from a place of love, not just action, and how to safeguard your soul in the chaos of ministry.Join us as we unpack the radical idea that to truly thrive, you must first stop and be with God. Your next level of emotional health and leadership begins here—because the best leaders are those who are loved well by Jesus first.

Explore the intersection of leadership, singleness, and marriage in this insightful episode of our podcast, as we dive into chapter three of The Emotionally Healthy Leader by Peter Scazzero. Discover how personal relationships can enhance ministry impact and why integrating them is crucial for authentic leadership.

• Leadership formation through marriage and singleness
• Integrating personal relationships with ministry
• The role of relational intimacy in leadership
• Historical perspectives on single leaders in church history
• Practical tips for nurturing meaningful relationships in ministry

• 00:00 Introduction
• 00:28 Purpose of the podcast
• 1:07 Leadership development through marriage and singleness
• 4:24 Navigating traditional views of marriage and ministry
• 10:03 Building intentional time with friends and spouse
• 16:21 Historical prominence of single leaders
• 21:46 Authentic intimacy and community in leadership

• The Emotionally Healthy Leader by Peter Scazzero
• LobbyLabs.co - Church Leaders Community & Coaching
• Follow Jonathan on Instagram
• Follow Jason on Instagram

Subscribe for more insights on aligning personal health with ministry impact!

Every leader has a shadow — the hidden wounds, unconscious patterns, and untamed emotions formed long before you ever stepped into a leadership role. The question isn't whether your shadow exists. It's whether you'll face it before it starts leading for you.

In this episode, Jonathan Malm and Jason Young dig into Chapter 2 of The Emotionally Healthy Leader, unpacking one of the most uncomfortable (and most necessary) conversations in church leadership: the parts of yourself you'd rather not look at — and why those are exactly the parts that matter most.

In this episode, you'll learn:

• What "the shadow" actually is — and how it quietly shapes every decision you make as a leader
• Why the cave you fear to enter might hold the breakthrough your leadership needs
• How your family system growing up is still running in the background of how you lead today
• Why the shadow shows up differently under stress than in everyday leadership moments
• Common ways the shadow surfaces in church leaders — from conflict avoidance to perfectionism to shutting down contrary opinions
• Practical tools to start facing your shadow, including naming your emotions, using a genogram, and seeking trustworthy feedback
• Why shadow work isn't optional if you want sustainable fruit in your ministry

Jonathan gets personal about his "not yet" defense mechanism, Jason shares how a strength can quietly become a shadow, and both of them make the case that what you refuse to see will eventually lead you.

🔗 Want a community of trusted leaders around you? Check out LobbyLabs.co — the coaching community for guest services and connections leaders.

Season 2 is here — and we're diving into one of the most important (and most overlooked) conversations in church ministry: your emotional health as a leader.

Jonathan Malm and Jason Young kick off their discussion of Peter Scazzero's The Emotionally Healthy Leader by unpacking the four telltale signs that a church leader is running on empty — and why most of us don't even realize it's happening.

In this episode, you'll learn:

• Why 95% of leaders think they're self-aware — but only 10–15% actually are
• The difference between holding binoculars and holding a mirror — and why it changes everything about how you lead
• Why prioritizing ministry over marriage (or key relationships) is a losing strategy for everyone — including your church
• How "doing too much for God" can actually be a sign you're running from something
• What Sabbath really means — and why a day off isn't the same thing
• How to tell the difference between an issue worth addressing and unnecessary chaos you're creating yourself

Plus, Jonathan gets honest about reading Scripture just to find content for SundaySocial, and Jason shares the sobering research on what's actually driving burnout in church staff.

Whether you're a pastor, a church staff member, or a volunteer leader, this episode will challenge you to stop pointing the binoculars outward and take an honest look in the mirror.

📖 Reading along? Pick up The Emotionally Healthy Leader by Peter Scazzero wherever books are sold.