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Aaron is joined by two CIA veterans—John Kiriakou and Barry Eisler—to discuss the late imperial mania of the US deep state. John Kiriakou is the former CIA officer who blew the whistle on the agency’s illegal torture program. Barry Eisler is also a former CIA officer and a bestselling novelist. His newest book is The System.

Check out:

Substack: Loud & Clear with John Kiriakou

Deep Focus with John Kiriakou

The DeProgram Show

Barry Eisler’s website

Barry’s Substack

Special thanks to:

Dana Chavarria, production

Casey Moore, graphics

Michelle Boley, animated intro

Mock Orange, music