We level up once again this week as we welcome international cider dignitary Darlene Hayes to Cider Voice.

One of the most important and influential figures in the American and now global cider revolution, Darlene has played a central role in expanding cider education, especially through the Certified Cider Guide and Certified Pommelier Programmes.

We talk through Darlene's introduction to cider, burrow down a rabbit hole of varietal curiosity (with a shoutout to Albert's new Sherrington Norman) and then chat all things Pommelier following the course's worldwide expansion.

If you want the inside track on these new cider qualifications; what they are, how they were put together, what's involved in taking them – and how to avoid any obvious slipups, this is the episode for you. Plus a special behind the scenes glimpse at the shape that these cider education programmes might take next.