An early conversation that explored possibilities cider was only beginning to consider.

As Cider Chat moves toward its 500th episode, we revisit conversations from the earliest seasons, taking a long view of the moments that quietly shaped where cider and this podcast would go.

This episode, originally recorded in Season One, features legendary winemaker Randall Grahm, founder of Bonny Doon Vineyard and a James Beard Award winner. At the time, inviting a winemaker onto a cider podcast felt like stepping outside the expected boundaries of the category. Looking back now, it marked a turning point.

Long before many of these topics became common discussion in cider, this conversation explores:

• indigenous and wild yeast fermentation
• the use of pied de cuve to build healthy native fermentations
• beginning fermentations de novo each vintage
• blending philosophy borrowed from wine
• quince used as structure and aroma rather than juice
• perry through a winemaker's lens
• antique fruits like medlars
• cider as an expression of curiosity and place

Randall Grahm

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Find the full show notes for this episode at CiderChat.com Episode 491: https://ciderchat.com/podcast/491-randall-grahm-cider-history/

Listen to Episode 491 of Cider Chat® wherever you get your podcasts and don't forget to subscribe so you never miss what's coming next in Ciderville.

Prefer to watch? Find Cider Chat on YouTube for more cider stories, orchard adventures, and global cider culture.

💛 If you love what you're hearing, please consider supporting Cider Chat. Your support helps keep the podcast on the air and makes it possible to share more conversations like this one.

An editorial on leadership, scarcity, and why cider no longer needs to borrow authority from beer or wine.

In Let Cider Lead, host Ria Windcaller steps back from interviews to offer a clear-eyed reflection on the state of the cider industry, drawing on more than three decades in cider and nearly eleven years documenting the modern cider movement through Cider Chat.

00:00 Introduction and Episode Overview 01:02 Upcoming Cider Events 03:10 Totally Cider Tours 06:37 Cider Chat Schedule Update 08:00 Reflections on Cider Industry Leadership 10:53 Cider Industry Norms and Challenges 18:44 Call to Action: Let Cider Lead 19:50 Conclusion and Sign Off 20:25 Outro Song: Strange Apples

Find the full show notes for this episode at CiderChat.com Episode 490: https://ciderchat.com/podcast/490-let-cider-lead/

Listen to Episode 490 of Cider Chat® wherever you get your podcasts and don't forget to subscribe so you never miss what's coming next in Ciderville.

Prefer to watch? Find Cider Chat on YouTube for more cider stories, orchard adventures, and global cider culture.

💛 If you love what you're hearing, please consider supporting Cider Chat. Your support helps keep the podcast on the air and makes it possible to share more conversations like this one.

Natural cider is often misunderstood as funky, volatile, or flawed. Recorded live at CiderCon 2025, this seminar reframes natural cider as a philosophy of low intervention, balance, and intentional care, not a free pass for faults.

Moderator Haritz is joined by Richard of Brooklyn Cider House and Jasper Smith of Son of Man (Oregon) to explore how Basque cider traditions influence modern natural cider production in the U.S. The panel dives into fermentation choices, malolactic fermentation, volatile acidity, sensory evaluation, and why great natural cider is defined by quality, not dogma.

This conversation also examines how natural cider is judged in Spain, what tasting panels consider true faults, and why these ciders are designed first and foremost to be enjoyed with food.

Ciders featured: Zapiain (Basque Country), Son of Man (Oregon), and Solstice (Brooklyn Cider House)

Episode 489 Timestamps

00:00 Introduction to Basque Cider

00:25 Meet the Host: Ria Windcaller

00:42 The Magic of Sidra Natural

01:41 Exploring Natural Cider Production

02:32 Cider FOMO and CiderCon

03:34 Cider Chat Milestones and YouTube Channel

05:21 Thanking the Cider Chat Patrons

08:44 Featured Presentation: Natural Cider Panel

09:23 Defining Natural Cider

11:32 Production Techniques and Philosophies

27:05 Harvest Strategies and Apple Varieties

36:21 Exploring the Price Range of Ciders

37:01 The Science Behind Well-Integrated Volatile Acidity

38:31 The Role of Malolactic Fermentation in Cider

39:55 Tasting Panels and Quality Control in Basque Cider

42:44 Cider Pairing with Food: A Gastronomic Experience

44:31 The Cultural Significance of Cider in Spain

51:31 The Importance of Apple Varieties in Cider Making

55:43 Challenges and Rewards of Natural Cider Production

01:01:48 Final Thoughts and Future of Cider

01:06:55 Conclusion and Farewell

Find the full show notes for this episode at CiderChat.com Episode 489: https://ciderchat.com/podcast/489-natural-cider-production/

Listen to Episode 489 of Cider Chat® wherever you get your podcasts and don't forget to subscribe so you never miss what's coming next in Ciderville.

Prefer to watch? Find Cider Chat on YouTube for more cider stories, orchard adventures, and global cider culture.

💛 If you love what you're hearing, please consider supporting Cider Chat. Your support helps keep the podcast on the air and makes it possible to share more conversations like this one.

A pending lawsuit spearheaded by Ron Extract of Garden Path Fermentation could change how cider makers label harvest year and "vintage" on cider over 7% ABV. Ron explains why the current TTB rules block truthful harvest-year labeling, how this impacts both producers and consumers, and what success would look like for the cider community.

00:00 Introduction and Podcast Overview

00:43 Cider Labeling Controversy

02:46 News and Events in the Cider World

04:56 Upcoming Cider Tours

09:16 Featured Presentation: Ron Extract on Cider Labeling Lawsuit

42:21 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Find the full show notes to this episode at CiderChat.com Episode 488 https://ciderchat.com/podcast/488-vintage-cider-label-lawsuit/

Listen to Episode 488 of Cider Chat® wherever you get your podcasts and don't forget to subscribe so you never miss what's coming next in Ciderville.

📺 Prefer to watch? Find Cider Chat on YouTube for more cider stories, orchard adventures, and global cider culture.

💛 If you love what you're hearing, please consider supporting Cider Chat

Your support helps keep the podcast on the air and makes it possible to share more interviews and deep-dive conversations like this one.

In This Episode, We Cover

• Why Sorbus domestica is often nicknamed "the chocolate pear" (and why that name actually helps people get it)
• What bletting means, and why sorbs can be delicious before they turn fully brown (depending on the fruit)
• The "custard stage" vs. fully bletted "medlar-like" stage (and how this relates to cider pressing windows)
• Ben's sorb travel finds across:
  • Croatia (including fruit for sale at the market + trees growing in yards)
  • Moravia (Czech Republic) — including the Sorbus museum and harvest festival
  • France (sorb hunting with Arnold and tasting cormé/cormé-style ferments)
  • Somerset, UK (a surprise roadside discovery!)
• Growth habits that can make Sorbus domestica look like an oak
• Why sorbs may matter in a changing climate:
  • deep root systems
  • drought resistance
  • long lifespan
  • later bloom time (less frost risk)
• Seed-grown vs grafted sorbs — and why Ben prefers genetic diversity (for now)
• The surprising reality: sorbs have already been distributed widely in the U.S. through seedlings
• What's being made with sorbs in Europe:
  • brandy
  • co-ferments with grapes
  • wine experiments

Time Stamps

00:00 Introduction to Sorbus Domestica

00:18 Meet the Podcast Host: Ria Windcaller

00:52 Exploring Sorbus Domestica: History and Uses

01:25 Cider Chat Episodes Featuring Sorbus Domestica

02:39 Sorbus Domestica in France and the US

04:05 Cider News and Upcoming Events

07:53 Interview with Ben Kunesh: Chocolate Pears

08:33 The Unique Characteristics of Sorbus Domestica

17:25 Sorbus Domestica Around the World

21:03 The Versatility and Adaptability of Sorbus Domestica

24:20 The Future of Sorbus Domestica in Orchards

25:49 Sorbus Domestica: A Historical Perspective

27:34 Ben's Travels and Discoveries

34:25 Exploring Sorbus Domestica Variations

35:30 Propagation Techniques and Genetic Diversity

37:29 Historical Context and Distribution

39:50 Nursery and Distribution Efforts

41:09 European Adventures and Discoveries

45:30 Tasting Sorbus Domestica Products

54:23 Future Prospects and Cultivation Tips

01:00:58 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

🎧 Listen to Episode 487 of Cider Chat® wherever you get your podcasts and don't forget to subscribe so you never miss what's coming next in Ciderville.

📺 Prefer to watch? Find Cider Chat on YouTube for more cider stories, orchard adventures, and global cider culture.

💛 If you love what you're hearing, please consider supporting Cider Chat

Your support helps keep the podcast on the air and makes it possible to share more interviews and deep-dive conversations like this one.

Recorded live at CiderCon, this episode brings listeners into a rare, in-depth conversation about Chile's living cider tradition—one shaped by more than 450 years of apple fermentation, deep regional biodiversity, and community-based agriculture.

Moderated by Eli Shanks, this panel features cider makers, cooperative leaders, and academics from southern Chile who explore how apples arrived, adapted, and endured across Araucanía, Los Ríos, and the Chiloé archipelago. Rather than a "new" cider movement, Chile offers something far rarer: a cider culture that never disappeared.

At the heart of the discussion is Chicha—the traditional name for fermented apple beverages in Chile—and the cultural weight that language carries. Panelists unpack how Chicha and cider share the same roots, why heritage orchards matter, and what's at stake as aging farmers, development pressure, and climate change threaten seed-grown apple diversity.

Listeners will also hear about:

• Heritage apple orchards over 100 years old, many grown from seed

• The role of women as primary stewards of orchards and biodiversity

• Native fermentation vessels made from Raulí and other Chilean woods

• Cooperative cider making on the island of Chiloé

• The challenges of valuing cider beyond "cheap, rural" perceptions

• The future of Chilean cider on the global stage, including education, competitions, and potential export

This episode offers an essential perspective for anyone interested in cider as culture—not trend—and in how place, people, and history shape what ends up in the glass.

Panelists & Contributors

• Eli Shanks – Co-founder, Punta de Fierro Fine Cider; Head Cider Maker, Western Cider

• Gicella – President, Cooperative Chilwe (Chiloé)

• René Galindo – Third-generation cider maker, Araucanía

• Carlos Flores – Co-founder, Punta de Fierro Fine Cider; Orchardist, Valdivia

• Fabián Lara – Cider & beer consultant; INDAP (Chilean Ministry of Agriculture)

• José Antonio Aldea – Professor and fermentation educator

Key Themes

• Chilean cider and Chicha traditions

• Heritage apple orchards and seed-grown ecotypes

• Women's roles in orchard preservation

• Cooperative models and island agriculture

• Native materials and spontaneous fermentation

• Preserving cider culture in a changing landscape

Timestamps

⏱️ Detailed timestamps are listed above to help you jump to specific topics, speakers, and cider discussions.

00:00 Introduction to Chicha and Cider

00:26 News Out and About Ciderville

00:43 Episode Overview: Chilean Cider Panel

03:30 Upcoming Events and Announcements

07:42 Introduction to the Chilean Panel

10:44 Chilean Cider Regions and History

16:11 Traditional Cider Making in Chile

18:11 Modern Chilean Cider and Future Prospects

20:16 Cider Tasting and Panel Discussion

29:32 Consumer Perception of Cider in Chile

30:07 Challenges and Efforts in Differentiation

30:34 Traditional and New World Ciders

31:13 Exciting Apple Varieties and Characteristics

32:19 Naming and Regional Varieties

35:40 Incorporating Local Fruits into Cider

38:09 Historical Context and Apple Lineages

41:47 Fire Blight and Disease Resistance

42:57 Modern vs. Traditional Cider Making

44:15 Collaborations with Winemakers

47:12 Preserving Heritage Apple Orchards

52:10 Forming a Cooperative in Chiloé

54:53 Market Development and Sales Strategies

57:03 Generational Gaps and Preservation Efforts

59:08 Future Goals and International Connections

Support Cider Chat®

If you value independent, long-form conversations that preserve cider history and amplify global voices, consider supporting Cider Chat® on Patreon. Your support helps keep these stories accessible and the podcast on the air.

Carlos Flores is an architect, landscape designer, and co-founder of Punta de Fierro Fine Cider. At the 2025 CiderCon in Chicago he presented Carlos presented "Developing An Experimental Edible Forest in a Heritage Apple Orchard." - this episode features his full presentaiton and you will also find his audio synced with all the power point slides at the Cider Chat YouTube Channel.

Find full shownotes to this episode at https://ciderchat.com/podcast/485-chile-edible-forest-cider/

00:00 Intro to Cider Chat - news

00:49 Carlos Flores and the Edible Forest

01:43 The Rich History of Chilean Cider

04:03 Upcoming Cider Events and Tours

08:41 Carlos Flores' Journey and Vision

18:40 Creating the Edible Forest

30:59 Bees and Flowers

31:08 Meteorological Station and Climate Change

32:24 Community Involvement and Workshops

33:37 Greenhouse and New Trees

34:12 Summer School and Neighbor's Orchard

36:17 Building a Cider House

37:47 Biofilter and Water Management

39:32 Community Impact and Economic Development

41:34 Pruning and Tree Management

43:14 Future Plans and Experiments

50:22 Funding and Government Grants

55:30 Final Thoughts and Conclusion

Contact info for Carlos of Punta de Fierro Cider

• Website: https://puntadefierro.cl
• Listen to Episode 421: Explore the Rich History of Chilean Cider w/Punta de Fierro

Mentions in this Cider Chat

• 393: How to Wassail & Drink Hail
• Totally Cider Tours
• CiderCon2026

Support Cider Chat via our Patreon Page!

Meet Patrick McCauley, a Michigan-based cider maker and researcher, who is questioning some of the most common myths about American cider history. What Patrick uncovers is a far more regional, farm-based, and resilient cider story than the usual "cider died because of Prohibition" narrative.

00:00 Introduction to Cider and Prohibtion

00:23 Meet the Host and Guest

01:56 Listener Support and Community

04:51 Cider Salon Hungary, Uk & French Cider Tour

08:03 Featured Conversation with Patrick McCauley

10:25 Cider Production and Historical Insights

14:48 Regional Cider Production in the US

30:36 Impact of Prohibition and Industrialization

37:30 Challenges in Cider Production

38:33 Cider Culture and Consumer Perception

39:22 Historical Context and Regional Differences

42:08 Modern Cider Making Techniques

45:14 The Future of Cider

48:05 Historical Research and Discoveries

59:24 Reviving Lost Cider Traditions

01:05:58 Closing Remarks and Gratitude

Contact info for Patrick McCauley

• Listen to Patrick's Episode 302: Cider Mills of Washtenaw County (1841 to today)
• Website: https://patrickmccauley.reinhartrealtors.com/

Mentions in this Cider Chat

• 2026 UK Blossom Time Totally Cider Tour
• Patron letter - Zach
• New England Cider Association - @newenglandciders
• Cider Salon Hungary

Cider Chat Patreon - join today!

Enjoy this annual winter tale from Cider Chat Central! In this special holiday episode, Cider Chat invites you to step into the enchanting world of the Talking Pommes. The Talking Pommes Grand Winter Party is more than just a story - it's a celebration of all things pome, community, tradition, and the joy that comes with every glass of cider.

The cider house hums with anticipation as Ria, Perry Pear, Mr. Quince, and the Medlars prepare the night before their annual pressing. But as every year before there is always magic in the air for Ciderville. With the Talking Pommes truly anything can happen and so it does!

With snow blanketed orchards, and just the right amount of "Believe" a sleigh pulled by apples glides through the starry sky.

Raise a glass and join us on this festive adventure—because in Ciderville, the magic is always just a sip away.

Meet the Stars of the Cider House

This holiday episode of Cider Chat brings together some of Ciderville's most delightful characters:

• Apple: The vibrant leader with a twinkle in their eye.
• The Medlars: Sweet, quirky, and always ready with a witty remark.
• Mr. Quince: The taskmaster who wants to be a comic
• Perry Pear: Full of charm and flair, a natural performer.
• A Wide Assortment of Pommes: From Dabinett to Kingston Black, they bring their unique personalities to the mix.

The Gift of Holiday Cider Magic

This story is for anyone who cherishes the magic of the season. As Apple says, "Every glass of cider holds a story, and this one's for you."

From Cider Chat to all of Ciderville, we hope this episode brings joy to your holiday season. Raise a glass, gather 'round, and join the Talking Pommes and Ria in Ciderville!

At the New York Cider Fest in November, there were 2 Cider and Cheese sessions. Cider Chat Emcee Ria Windcaller attended one featuring ciders from 4 different makers. This cider and cheese pairing was led by Rachel Freier, a cheesemonger who is based in the Finger Lakes. She brought deep knowledge, humor, and a whole lot of heart as we tasted our way through four ciders and three cheeses.

00:00 Introduction to New York City Cider Fest

01:55 Networking at the Cider Fest

02:50 Exploring the Finger Lakes Cider Scene

04:36 Upcoming Cider Tours and Events

09:32 Cider Making Tips and Anecdotes

13:46 Featured Presentation: Cider and Cheese Pairing

23:31 Sterilizing Juice and Grape Skins

23:41 Exploring Apple Varieties: Northern Spy and Crab Apples

24:06 Harvesting Feral Fruit and Gnarly Branch Rose

24:51 Pairing Cider with Cheese

25:31 The Finger Lakes Cider Scene

26:09 Cider and Goat Cheese Pairings

27:19 Kingston Black: The King of Apples

30:16 The Art of Blending Ciders

31:09 Sustainable Cheese Making

33:43 Chisel Jersey Cider and Cheese Pairing

36:19 Upcoming Cider Chat Episodes

37:20 Celebrating the Holidays with Cider

39:23 Musical Outro: Strange Apples

Contact Info for the Ciders and Rachel

• Rachel Freier, (Cheesemonger):
• Eve's Cidery - Maker Ezra
• Idiot Brother Cider - Maker Robert
• Grisamore/ Cider Works - Maker Simon
• South Hill Cider - Maker Steve

Mentions in this Cider Chat

• Episode 198: Becoming a Pomologist w/ Dr. Peck
• Totally Cider Tours UK tour feature in CAMARA's Pint West
• Patron Letter - Sune
• 2026 Blossom Time Totally Cider Tour
• The Talking Pommes' Grand Winter Party Annual Special Episode