
Sign up to save your podcasts
Or


This week we are not chasing brand names. We are building flavor intuition. Consider Thanksgiving not as one single taste on a plate; it is a stack of distinct taste worlds. Each one asks for its own kind of cider or perry.
In this holiday feature, Ria and the Talking Pommes a.k.a. Perry Pear, Mr. Quince, and The Medlars talk through the art of pairing cider and perry for the entire Thanksgiving feast, from the welcome sip to dessert.
You will learn how to shop with confidence, how to read a label for style rather than brand, and how to bring bottles that make every part of the meal sing. There is also a downloadable Thanksgiving Cider Shopping Checklist PDF below to make your trip to the store simple and stress free.
Chapters for Episode 47700:00 Introduction and Talking Pommes
00:47 Welcome to Cider Chat
02:02 Thanksgiving Traditions and Preparations
06:05 Upcoming Cider Tours
07:40 New York Cider Events
10:26 Ultimate Cider Pairing Guide for Thanksgiving
14:00 Choosing the Right Cider for Starters
18:33 Main Course Cider Pairings
20:37 Turkey Preparation and Cider Pairing
21:12 Smoked Turkey and Barrel-Aged Cider
21:49 Creamy Sides and Semi-Dry Cider
22:31 Fruit Ciders for Roasted Vegetables
22:57 Choosing the Right Cider
23:58 Introducing Cider to Friends and Family
25:01 Low Alcohol Ciders for Gatherings
26:30 Dessert Pairings with Cider
31:31 Serving Cheese and Fruit Plates
33:01 Thanksgiving Table Preparations
36:19 Final Thoughts and Recommendations
Mentions in this Cider ChatHow to clarify, stabilize, and finish cider the right way
The Purpose of Secondary Fermentation when Making CiderOnce the apple juice has started fermented and it is now slowing down, it is time to rack over your cider for secondary fermentation.
Secondary fermentation is where your cider moves from "young" to "refined." This stage improves clarity, stability, and overall quality before bottling or serving.
00:00 – Introduction and Welcome 00:27 – Meet the Host: Ria Windcaller 00:45 – The Magic of Clothes Pins 01:14 – Episode Overview: Secondary Fermentation 01:55 – Replay Announcement: Season 8, Episode 386 02:14 – Cider Making in the Northern Hemisphere 02:34 – Cider Making Resources and Equipment 06:09 – Totally Cider Tours 13:29 – Upcoming New York Cider Festival 15:31 – Featured Presentation: Clearing Cloudy Cider 24:01 – Observing Fermentation Activity 24:21 – Timing and Patience in Cider Making 24:54 – Understanding Racking Over 25:32 – Dealing with Stuck Fermentation 26:59 – Secondary Fermentation Indicators 27:47 – Preparing for Racking Over 29:13 – Racking Over Process 30:49 – Using Sulfites and Equipment 35:32 – Handling Head Space and Lees 38:38 – Final Tips and Bottling 42:43 – Supporters and Closing Remarks
Why Secondary Fermentation MattersSecondary fermentation helps your cider:
Improve the overall quality and characteristics of the final product during secondary fermentation by;
Clarify: After the vigorous primary fermentation phase, yeast, pulp, and particulate matter settle out. Giving the cider time in secondary creates that clean, bright look in the glass. Stabilize: Letting the cider relax in a less active fermentation state helps smooth out rough edges and reduces the risk of funky off-character flavors. Reduce Bottle Sediment: Most of the lees settle in the secondary fermenter — not in your final bottles — giving you a cleaner, professional-looking cider. Avoid Off-Flavors: Yeast that sits too long on the lees can break down (autolyze) and create harsh, unpleasant aromas. Racking to secondary moves the cider off that yeast layer and protects the finished profile..
Secondary fermentation is a crucial step for refining cider, enhancing its clarity, taste, and stability before it is consumed or sold.
Past Cider Making EpisodesPrimary fermentation must be substantially complete. Signs include: – Airlock activity slows way down – Gravity readings stabilize over several days – Visible bubbling is minimal – A firm lees bed is forming at the bottom – Taste test confirms sugar is mostly gone (unless aiming for sweet
Equipment needed for Cider's Secondary FermentFind a complete list with links to purchase at the Cider Making Equipment page at ciderchat.com
Perry making has deep roots in Gloucestershire, stretching back to the 17th century when French wine imports were cut off during the Napoleonic Wars. Local farmers turned to their own fruit, and the rich soils around Hartpury proved ideal for growing Perry pears.
This episode features audio snapshots from the 2025 Totally Cider Tour stop at the National Perry Pear Centre. Our guide, Phil Kester, volunteers with 99PINES , where he helps preserve the region's rare Perry pear varieties. Phil's passion for Perry and deep local knowledge made this visit one of the tour's highlights.
The Roots of the National Perry Pear CentreThe name 99PINES comes from the line of pines atop nearby May Hill, often called the heart of English Perry country.
Phil Kester of 99PINESS " data-medium-file= "https://i0.wp.com/ciderchat.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/10/475-Phil-Kester-of-99PINES-with-bottles-of-Perry.jpg?fit=200%2C300&ssl=1" data-large-file= "https://i0.wp.com/ciderchat.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/10/475-Phil-Kester-of-99PINES-with-bottles-of-Perry.jpg?fit=200%2C300&ssl=1" /> Phil Kester of 99PINESSPhil and the volunteers at 99PINES are working to:
Perry is both art and patience.
At the base of Burrow Hill life moves at the pace of apples and oak. Here, Julian and daughter Matilda Temperley are testment to the value of family for carry a business such as cider and brandy forward into the next 100 years.
"You have to believe in the Romance of it because you are thinking so far in advance" Matilda Temperly
From orchards planted for future generations to brandy resting quietly in barrels for decades, the Temperleys embody what it means to think in centuries, not seasons.
The Cider: Tradition and Terroir
The mount at Burrow Hill is memorialized in ongoing instagram posts because it provides a magnificent centerpiece of endurance and beauty due to its simplicity of a lone a large sycamore tree, which has become a local landmark and symbol of the Somerset landscape.
Julian Temperly began planting cider apples trees here over 50 years ago. Today there are acres of orchards in different pockets surrounding Burrow Hill. A notable 75 acre orchard that was purchased from the Showering family years ago now, is touted to be the largest standard cider apple orchard in the world.
Here you find the classic Burrow Hill cider as a tannic, full-bodied, and balanced drink. The bottle-fermented Kingston Black and Stoke Red ciders are great for hang time with friends or fine dining. Every cider reflects its orchard origin, emphasizing flavor, heritage, and authenticity.
Distilling Somerset's SpiritIn 1989, Somerset Cider Brandy became the first licensed distiller of apple brandy in the UK since the 19th century. And they have been awarded Protected Geographical Indication (PGI) status. This status guarantees that the brandy is produced in a consistent and traditional manner within Somerset. Using unique Gazagne stills, which are continuous stills of French design, the Temperleys now have lovely range of offerings from Eau de Vie to 20-year-aged Somerset Cider Brandy. Their Pomona, is a blend of apple juice and brandy, celebrates Somerset roots.
Looking AheadThe Temperly's 100-year plan focuses on replanting traditional orchards, cultivating local oak for future barrels, and sustaining multi-generational stewardship. The goal: to ensure that Burrow Hill remains a place where apples, family, and time converge into something extraordinary.
Matilda Temperley in the Tasting Room at Somerset Cider & Brandy Contact info for Somerset Cider and Brandy at Burrow Hill
What makes a Pét Nat cider sparkle naturally and how is it connected to the rural method you might have heard about in the UK?
In this episode, we take a practical look at:
Cider Making How-to Episodes:
Fall Event - November 1, 25th Annual Apple Harvest Fest at Albemarle CiderWorks
Enjoy an intimate recording from the 2025 Totally Cider Tour_UK Edition. This unforgettable evening featured James Forbes of Little Pomona, leading guests through a cider dinner pairing in the Malvern Hills located on the border of Herefordshire and Worcestershire in England.
James presents both a welcome Perry, Ciders and a very special aperitif.
We beging with Brut Rosé Perry, crafted from perry pears co-fermented with local damsons. James shared how whole damsons are fermented via carbonic maceration to extract their rich color and flavor before being pressed with early season pears. The result: a radiant sparkling Perry with deep fruit notes and remarkable finesse.
"We actually ferment the damsons whole in CO₂ and then co-press them with the first pears. It gives a whole new layer of aroma and flavor." — James Forbes
A Cider for the TableNext up was a single varietal Stoke Red cider, a rarity from Little Pomona's usual blends. James described it as a "fully fermented" cider that is balanced and dry yet vibrant, with a whisper of natural sweetness from the Rural Method. This approach captures the cider before all sugars ferment out, creating harmony between acidity and fruit. Check out Wilding Episode with Sam Leach on the Rural Method
"Stoke Red is one of my top three apples. In a less ripe vintage, that touch of sugar brings perfect balance."
Select Cider ApplesDinner continued with Egremont Russet, a still cider with a light sparkle. The russet's golden skin and nutty depth create an almost wine-like cider. Notes of pineapple, anise, and honey appeared with each sip, echoing the richness of the food and the rustic charm of the evening.
"FOMO" Caps the NightDessert brought out a treasure: Little Pomona's "FOMO"—a playful nod to France's Pommeau. Only 192 bottles were made, combining distillate from Bramley apples and Kingston Black juice aged in chestnut barrels. It lent a sweet, amber nectar with layers of floral and plum notes, it was the perfect close to the evening.
James Forbes with FOMO" data-medium-file= "https://i0.wp.com/ciderchat.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/10/472-James-Forbes-with-Fomo.jpg?fit=200%2C300&ssl=1" data-large-file= "https://i0.wp.com/ciderchat.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/10/472-James-Forbes-with-Fomo.jpg?fit=200%2C300&ssl=1" /> James Forbes with FOMO"We called it FOMO—a faux Pommeau—because you don't want to miss out on this one."
The Spirit of the Malvern HillsThe evening concluded with words from Deborah Fox CEO of the Malvern Hills Trust, who shared the rich history and heritage of this cherished landscape—home to ancient Perry pears, cider orchards, and centuries of cultivation.
Ria Windcaller and Deborah Fox" data-medium-file= "https://i0.wp.com/ciderchat.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/10/Ria-and-Deborah-Fox-200x300-1.jpg?fit=200%2C300&ssl=1" data-large-file= "https://i0.wp.com/ciderchat.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/10/Ria-and-Deborah-Fox-200x300-1.jpg?fit=200%2C300&ssl=1" /> Ria Windcaller and Deborah Fox"We keep the hills unbuilt, un-encroached upon, and un-urbanized. …The Perry pear and cider have always been part of this land's story." Deborah Fox
Contact info for Little PomonaPast episodes featuring Little Pomona
Newton Court Cider began as a 30-acre farm selling apples to Bulmers. When the market changed, Paul Stephens turned those same orchards into a modern day cider business.
Front view of Newton Court's restaurant and visitor centre in Herefordshire, surrounded by orchards and outdoor seating." data-medium-file= "https://i0.wp.com/ciderchat.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/09/471-Netown-Court.jpg?fit=300%2C200&ssl=1" data-large-file= "https://i0.wp.com/ciderchat.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/09/471-Netown-Court.jpg?fit=300%2C200&ssl=1" /> Front view of Newton Court's restaurant and visitor centre in Herefordshire, surrounded by orchards and outdoor seating.His early inspiration came from Brian Shanks, the co-founder of Bold Rock Cider in Virginia. Though Bold Rock produces cider on a large, industrial scale, it was Brian's perspective as a New Zealander who admired Herefordshire's rich cider apple heritage that sparked Paul's drive to build something lasting at home. Today, the recently built out Newton Court tasting room/restaurant is booming showing that tourist and locals alike are thirsty for a full service destination.
Cider Making at Newton CourtIt was noted by Paul that his parents open-minded approach helped the farm transistion into the cider destination that it is today. In additon, a recent collaboration with River Cottage led to the award-winning Elderflower Cider, proving that tradition and creativity can thrive together.
Newton Court remains deeply rooted in sustainable farming and regional pride, helping to preserve the orchards and cider heritage of Herefordshire for future generations.
Contact Info for Newton CourtIn October 2024, Cider Chat MC Ria Windcaller recorded with Tom Vowles of Hedger Cider and Ben Crossman in Somerset. Initially, the two recordings felt like separate brand stories. Then, nearly a year later to the day as the produciton of this audio began and the transcript peeled away a story of entwined history came to light and a shared connection: Coates Cider of Nailsea.
Tom Vowles" data-medium-file="https://i0.wp.com/ciderchat.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/09/470-Tom-Vowles-200x300-1.jpg?fit=200%2C300&ssl=1" data-large-file= "https://i0.wp.com/ciderchat.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/09/470-Tom-Vowles-200x300-1.jpg?fit=200%2C300&ssl=1" /> Tom VowlesSuddenly a light bulb was illuminated! The Coates Cider Company was at the helm of the story and here at Cider Chat Central we saw the weaving in of the story behind both Nick Showering and Bob Cork episode on Triple Vintage! The story of cider is entwined in surprising ways and make perfect sense!
Remembering Tom VowlesTom walked Ria about his production room which showcased a massive rack and cloth press – that originally came from Coates:
"It's a big old press, isn't it? Came out of Coates originally. We've put a lot into getting it running again, and it does the job." – Tom Vowles
At the time of this recording Hedgers Cider had been opened for just 14 months and during that time had become a go-to place for cider fans. The fact that it is located 5 minutes from the Bristol Airport and along a major artery from Weston super-Mare to Bristol also helps. What we didn't expect was Tom unexpectedly passing away in June of 2025. At the time of this broadcast in fall of 2025, his wife Jo and their son David is now carrying Hedgers forward.
Ben Crossman's Cider and Family HistoryBen's story reaches back to the 1930s, when his grandfather made cider alongside Redvers Coate. They even at one time considered a partnership.
Ben Crossman" data-medium-file= "https://i0.wp.com/ciderchat.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/09/470-Ben-Crossman-with-jug-of-cider-200x300-1.jpg?fit=200%2C300&ssl=1" data-large-file= "https://i0.wp.com/ciderchat.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/09/470-Ben-Crossman-with-jug-of-cider-200x300-1.jpg?fit=200%2C300&ssl=1" /> Ben Crossman"It's funny, isn't it? The Coates family were massive, and yet they're not here anymore. But we're still making cider." – Ben Crossman
Sidebar: Coates & Triple VintageCider was the choice drink for many and Perry once rivaled champagne and held prestige in Parliament. Today, the challenge is reclaiming value without losing openness.
Like vinyl records and artisan bread, cider's comeback requires:
In this Episode 469 of Cider Chat, we brings listeners inside the UK Totally Cider Tour 2025 through the voices of the guests who joined. From Somerset, Gloucestershire, Herefordshire, to Wales guests on this tour discovered not just cider and perry, but also community, history, and inspiration.
First Impressions and HighlightsGuests emphasized that tasting ciders in their native terroir cannot be replaced by books or certifications. Dan from Spacetime Mead and Cider Works in Dunmore Pennsylvania highlighted how only by being in Herefordshire or Somerset can one grasp the range of English cider styles.
Susan and Tom of Heeman's Cellars in Ontario pointed out how the pacing of the tour allowed real reflection—something missing from busier farm tours.
The TakeawayWhether first-timers or repeat guests, everyone agreed: the Totally Cider Tour offers access, education, and camaraderie that can't be replicated alone.
As David of Oregon said it best, "It wasn't really about the cider—it was about the people."
Contact info for Totally Cider ToursCider Maker and Founder Lee Van DeWater of Pierrepont Cider shares his story in this episode on how he is forages apples to share a taste of terroir from New York's North Country.
Lee Van DeWater
Foraging Apples for Cider - Sustainable?
Lee's cider journey started with childhood memories of sweet cider and apple trees planted by his great-grandfather. But it wasn't until he worked in Montana—buying wine for a co-op that he connected cider and apples through fermentation. Western Cider of Montana help Lee get that spark/idea of a cider life, and the seed was planted.
Pierrepont cider is a one-man operation, sourcing apples exclusively within the Little River Watershed. Many of the trees Lee uses are wild seedlings, unknown varieties that thrive in New York's tough climate. He honors the trees, the land, and water, seeing cider as a reciprocal act of love for place.
Low-Intervention, High-Expression
Lee is self-taught and intentionally minimalist. His ciders are:
Some of the most memorable ciders come from single trees. Others are blends of just a few wild apples growing together. He tracks everything via GPS and harvests with the patience and perspective of a forager.
"The tree that holds its fruit until the first snow, that's climate-controlled storage," Lee laughs.
Micro Batches, Big Intention
What's available?
Each bottle comes with its own story. You might not find hundreds of cases, but you'll find care, balance, and quiet brilliance.
Contact Info for Pierrepont Cider
Mentions in this Cider Chat
From the publisher's feed

43,815 Listeners

31,924 Listeners

37,987 Listeners

16,046 Listeners

25,762 Listeners

9,193 Listeners

5,482 Listeners

111,876 Listeners

56,414 Listeners

2,394 Listeners

10,264 Listeners

5,369 Listeners

54 Listeners

15,899 Listeners

10,728 Listeners