Cider Chat

At the base of Colorado's Grand Mesa, the world's largest flat-top mountain, five generations of fruit growers have worked the land. Today, Snow Capped Cider carries on that legacy, crafting estate-grown ciders from fruit nurtured at elevations between 6,130 and 7,000 feet. The high desert sun, volcanic soil, and pure snowmelt water combine to create vibrant apples and distinctive ciders.

From Hobby to Heritage

What began as a small experiment soon blossomed into a full-fledged cidery. Sparked by a disappointing store-bought cider, Kari Williams and her family leaned into their winemaking background and deep orchard knowledge to create cider reflective of their exceptional terroir.

Kari Williams Cider Making at High Elevation

At Snow Capped Cider:

• Only estate-grown fruit is used.
• Over 100 acres are dedicated to cider-specific apple varieties.
• The extreme UV exposure at high elevation leads to apples with higher sugars, acids, and tannins, setting the stage for rich, complex ciders.

Managing a shorter growing season, spring frost risks, and labor-intensive frost protection methods has shaped their unique approach to farming and fermenting.

A Range of Styles

Snow Capped produces:

• 16 canned ciders distributed across four states.
• 54 distinct bottled ciders, from single varietals like Kingston Black and Harrison to blends featured in the Elevation Series.
• Botanical infusions and experimental ferments, all handled with precision and passion.

Their Gold Rush cider, a blend of French and English apples, showcases the vibrant flavors that their terroir imparts — a naturally complex, award-winning cider approachable for all levels of cider drinkers.

Where to Find Snow Capped Cider

Ciders are available via:

• Retail in Colorado, Utah, Idaho, and California
• Online at VinoShipper
• Their exclusive cider club offering small-batch, estate ciders.

Contact Info for Snow Capped Cider

Website: https://snowcappedcider.com

Mentions in this Cider Chat Mentions in this Cider Chat

• Totally Cider Tours

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Season:Season 10 Categories:

Cider Maker profile, Colorado Ciders Tags:

Cedar Ridge ciders, Colorado Ciders, Grand Mesa, high elevation orchards, UV exposure and fruit quality

This episode of Cider Chat, was recorded in person with Abram Goldman-Armstrong at CiderCon2025 in Chicago. Hear his journey to cider. From growing up in Oregon's Yamhill County to his current work in Norway's Hardanger region at Alde Sider.

Abram began fermenting cider as a student in Minnesota and went on to found the cidery known as Cider Riot in Portland, Oregon. His experience reflects both the evolution of the cider industry and the challenges of building a business grounded in values and community.

The Cider Riot Years

Cider Riot grew from a home cider making project into a well-regarded cider brand and pub. Abram describes building the business, navigating challenges like rising rent and market shifts, and the significance of Cider Riot as a political and cultural hub. The pub hosted community meetings, union organizers, and events that reflected Portland's activist spirit.

Standing Against Far-Right Violence

On May 1, 2019, Cider Riot became the site of a violent confrontation when members of the far-right group Patriot Prayer, led by Joey Gibson, clashed with patrons during a May Day celebration. The altercation resulted in injuries, including a woman being knocked unconscious. Abram filed a $1 million lawsuit against Gibson and others involved, alleging that they had instigated the attack. The incident drew national attention and highlighted the challenges faced by businesses taking a stand against hate groups.

Relocating to Norway

After Cider Riot closed in late 2019, Abram accepted an offer to collaborate with cider makers in Norway. He began working with a small brewery before moving west to Hardanger, where he now produces cider at Alde Sider. The region has a long history of apple growing and is the first in Norway to receive a protected designation for cider.

In this Cider Chat

• Early influences in Oregon: Working with Alan Foster of White Oak Cider, planting bittersweet varieties like Kingston Black.
• DIY beginnings: Making cider in college using apples from the dining hall and a cheese grater.
• Founding Cider Riot: From garage startup to a full-scale cidery and pub in Portland, Oregon.
• Pub culture & Portland community: Supporting labor organizing, queer and trans spaces, and anti-fascist events.
• Financial challenges: Draft-focused sales model, missed retail opportunities, and the impact of hard seltzers.
• Closure of Cider Riot: Reflections on its cultural significance and decision to shut down in 2019.
• Move to Norway: Invited to launch a cider program with a brewery in Sandefjord, leading to Tall Ship Cider.
• Transition to Alde Sider: Current role as lead cider maker in Hardanger, Norway's key cider region.
• Hardanger cider traditions: Protected cider designation and historic use of apples like Gravenstein and Discovery.
• Production methods at Alde:
  • Use of Nottingham ale yeast
  • Chaptalization with Danish beet sugar
  • High-acid juice (~pH 3.1–3.2)
  • Residual sweetness target of 1.003 SG
  • Crossflow filtration to halt fermentation
• Barrel aging program: Experiments with French agricole rum and Norwegian whiskey barrels.
• Community cider scene: Five producers in the village of Nå, collaboration across the fjord, and cider tourism via fjord boat.
• Cultural observations: Comparing pub cultures, lifestyle differences between Norway and Portland.
• Low-ABV cider innovation: Creating a 4.7% cider for draft sales in collaboration with 7 Fjell Brewery.
• Use of wild yeast: Petnat-style experiment using orchard yeast and natural inoculation.
• Future plans: Continuing to explore cider styles in Norway, working with bittersweets, and developing new blends.

Contact Info Abram

• Website: https://www.aldesider.no

Mentions in this Cider Chat

• 317: How a "Cyder" Teapot fueled the American Revolution
• Stone Ridge Orchard Wassail May 3rd & 4th – tickets https://www.clover.com/online-ordering/Event-Tickets
• Episode: 450th Roger Wilkins – The Cider King

John Edwards, longtime cider maker and integral team member at Ross on Wye Cider & Perry Co., and the creative force behind his personal label Fly be Night Cider was last on the podcast in 2019.

John Edwards In this Cider Chat with John Edwards

ohn is part of the tight-knit crew at Ross Cider who keep things running from orchard to bottle. The team has embraced a belt press system, which John finds surprisingly nimble—even for small batches. While Ross is rooted in tradition, they're also evolving their process to match the scale and diversity of their orchard.

• Transitioning to stainless steel fermentation tanks
• Working with old and rediscovered apple varieties
• Committed to wild yeast and natural fermentation
• Managing fire blight
• Diversifying the orchard's apple stock with varieties like Kingston Black, Golden Ball, and Cider Lady's Finger.

Fly Be Night: A Creative Outlet

Fly by Night remains John's personal cider expression—just a few barrels a year, shared with friends. Each release gets a new label (last year's was "Space Goat"), and while the iconic "0% Sh*t" label is retired, the spirit of fun and integrity lives on.

A Cellar Surprise for Ross Fest 2025?

John has one cider still in the cellar: a 2014 Foxwhelp that might just see bottles soon. Whether blending at Ross or bottling at home, John's work reminds us that cider thrives on community, curiosity, and a bit of mystery.

Mentions in this Cider Chat

• Episode 195: Fly Be Night Cider | 0% Sh**, UK
• Totally Cider Tour UK Edition

Rainy Days Goes Best with Dry Cider in the Barrel Room

Walking into the barrel room at Oliver's Cider and Perry Company, you might think you know what to expect. But surrounded by whitewashed stone walls, standing beneath the old Hessian sacking floor, and facing rows of aging barrels, I quickly realized this wasn't just a cidery—it's a living, breathing creative space for cider making.

Tom Oliver sources fruit both from his farm and from local orchards across Herefordshire. This isn't an estate cidery where everything is grown on-site—but what sets Oliver's cider and perry apart is Tom himself. A master blender with an instinct for balance, he brings character to every bottle. And while the farm may not produce every apple, it certainly imparts its own terroir through the land, the barns, and the quiet, purposeful rhythm of the work.

Tom and Ria In this Cider Chat

Blending Tradition with Innovation

• Tom is now experimenting with distillation: apple brandy, pommeau-style blends, and barrel-aged perry into brandy too!
• He's careful with naming, refusing to call something a "Pommeau" unless it honors French tradition.
• Barrels sourced from rum, sherry, port, bourbon, and white wine shape each unique blend.

Tasting in the Barrel Room

In the barrel room

We tasted perries straight from the barrel—some from single ancient trees, others blended with gin pears or red pear varieties. Each sip revealed:

• Confectionary sweetness
• Banana, melon, pineapple notes
• Mellow malolactic fermentation

This isn't a showpiece cidery as Tom puts it, "It's a working farm", evolving from a hop yard and now cider. Tom calls it "just a part of the agricultural calendar." No pretense, just purpose.

Tom Oliver straddles the line between tradition and experimentation with ease. Whether it's a single-varietal showcase or a spirit-kissed blend, the goal remains the same: make cider that speaks of time, place, and people.

Contact info for Oliver's Cider and Perry Co.

• Website: https://www.oliversciderandperry.co.uk

Mentions in this Cider Chat

• 2025 Totally Cider Tour_UK Edition
  • Send an email to [email protected] to get on the wait list for the next cider tour!
• Tom Oliver Featured episodes:
  • 029 Tom Oliver| Oliver's Cider and Perry, UK
  • 105 Tom Oliver on Making Perry | UK
  • 366 Acclaimed Cider w/Minimal Intervention | Tom Oliver

Celebrating Perry's Past, Present, and Future

Tom Oliver began his keynote by saying, "At this year's Applefest Banquet, I had the honor of lifting a glass to the people behind the pear—specifically Perry. It wasn't just a toast to the drink itself, but to the incredible commitment behind its preservation and craft."

Tom Oliver

Three Perry Legends

Charles Martel

• Known for his Stinking Bishop cheese and peri-based products.
• Catalogued disappearing peri pear varieties, creating the first national collection at the Three Counties Showground.
• His book on Gloucestershire pears remains a landmark work.

Jim Chapman

• Solicitor turned perry champion.
• Discovered the Hartbury Green pear and launched the Hartbury Orchard Centre.
• Now curates over 100 varietals displayed annually at the Malvern Autumn Show.
• Prefers dry, still perry—no bubbles, no fuss.

Kevin Minchew

• Perry pioneer bottling single varietals long before it was fashionable.
• Crafted standout perries like Gin and Huffcap in whiskey barrels.
• His final release, Last Hurrah, is a 23-year-aged marvel at 11% ABV.

Why Perry Matters

"Each of these individuals helped elevate Perry to something worth saving, savoring, and sharing. Their legacies shape not just what's in our glass—but how we think about heritage, land, and tradition.

Let's keep their torch lit. Raise your glass—Perry!" quote from Tom Oliver

AppleFest menu

Contact info for Oliver's Cider and Perry

• Website: https://www.oliversciderandperry.co.uk

Contact info for Hereford AppleFest

• Website: https://herefordcitycouncil.gov.uk/hereford-applefest-2025/
  • The AppleFest will be taking a pause for 2025 - stay tuned for 2026

Mentions in this Cider Chat

• Totally Cider Tours - UK Cider Tour 2025
• Ciderganza at Ross Cider and Perry Co.
• Gabe Cook - Ciderologist
• Hereford Beer House - United Kingdom
• Jane Peyton Keynote Episode 440: Jane Peyton Keynote |Hereford AppleFest Banquet

Drew Phillips opened the doors of Four Phantoms in Greenfield, Massachusetts in 2021. He began his fermentation career in the Pacific Northwest, and while waiting to open his own brewery, he took on the role as cider maker at Artifact Cider Project.

Drew Phillips

Known for his creative ciders and beers, Drew blends tradition with innovation, sourcing local fruit and experimenting with wild fermentation. Check out his talk on the making of Old Gods .

In this episode, Drew shares how Four Phantoms' unique approach reflects the terroir of Western Massachusetts.

Early Challenges of a Brewery/Cidery: Gaining a License

• Drew initially couldn't produce cider legally due to licensing restrictions in Massachusetts.
• After securing a farmer winery license, he started making cider alongside beer and mead.
• All ciders are crafted from Pine Hill fruit in Colrain, Massachusetts.

Signature Ciders and Fermentation Techniques

• Late Harvest – 6.5% Apples (Spy, Golden Russet and Baldwin)
• Tamlane – 6% 100% Macintosh apples, aged on black birch wood, giving it a herbal, German liqueur note.
• Redfield – 7.7% 100% Redfield apples – A red-fleshed apple cider with natural acidity and structure.
• Chapin's Waltz – 8.5% A blend of Golden Russet, Baldwin, and Northern Spy, co-fermented with low intervention.
• King of the Wharf – 7.5% A Mac-based cider aged on rum-soaked oak chips, giving it a smooth, warming finish.
• Old Gods – 8% Inspired by Finnish farmhouse brewing, fermented on black birch.
  • Listen to Episode 345 on how Old Gods a Co-Fermentation of Wort and Apple Juice was made!

Ciders Tasted during this chat Low Intervention and Sense of Place

• Drew emphasizes low-intervention cider making — no back-sweetening, minimal sulfites, and natural wild cultures.
• The ciders reflect the unique qualities of Western Massachusetts apples and local wood aging.
• Poly tanks and oak aging contribute to the distinctive flavors and textures.

Community and the Future of Four Phantoms Four Phantoms Tasting Area by the production room

• Drew values the connection between local agriculture and cider.
• He sees cider's future as more craft-focused than beer, with room for independent voices.
• "Cider resists commercialization," says Drew. "It's about sense of place."

Contact Info for Four Phantoms

• Website: https://fourphantoms.net

Mentions in this Cider Chat

• Totally Cider Tours
• Cider Route Itinerary send a request to Cider Chat
• Cider Rap Song – by Robert Sherman of EsoTerra Ciderworks in Durango, Colorado

In this Season 10 premier of Cider Chat, "Introductions" are featured from over 40 persons in attendance at the annual 2025 Berkshire Roundtable.

Kicking off Season 10 of Cider Chat

The opportunity to begin Season 10 with "Hellos" from a wide range of people in the cider community is the perfect fit for this milestone episode.

Here at Cider Chat Central we hope that this Season opener acts as a reminder that there is a wealth of knowledge at hand at a grass roots level in every region of the US.

Of course, this holds true for other countries as well and right about now this reminder feels very timely.

In Wisdom Lies Hope — hope for sustaining orchard ecosystems, hope that information can be passed on, history can be preserved and through shared learning and collaboration we can all create a better world.

We wish you all strength in knowing that so many others are working toward the same goal of stewarding this earth with care and intention. That shared purpose is a source of hope and resilience, even when the path ahead feels uncertain.

What is the Berkshire Roundtable?

The Berkshire Roundtable is an annual gathering held each March at Stump Sprouts, a rustic retreat center in Buckland, Massachusetts. This event brings together orchardists, cider makers, and industry professionals to exchange ideas and strengthen community ties.

Meetings take place over the course of a day and a half, in a large room at the retreat with everyone sitting in a round circle.

Berkshire Roundtable group photo

New Beginning for the Berkshire Roundtable

The Berkshire Roundtable has been taking place for the past 35 years! Micheal Phillips was integral in starting this meetup of orchardist and makers.

In 2012, the Holistic Orchard Network (HON) was founded by Michael Phillips. His influential book, The Holistic Orchard, continues to be sought after by orchardists around the world. Find more of his books at the Cider Books Resource page on this website.

Michael passed away unexpectedly while out in his New Hampshire orchard on February 27 2022. Today, HON continues on with leadership from Micheal Biltonen and others. Michael's work is continuing on by his wife Nancy and daughter Gracie Phillips and the HON work today.

Gracie and Nancy Phillips

Contact Info for HON and Heartsong Farm/Lost Nation Orchard

• Holistic Orchard Network with Berkshire Roundtable info : https://holisticorchardnetwork.org/
• Heartsong Farm and Lost Nation Orchard

Mentions in this Cider Chat

• 392: Bent Ladder Estate Ciders & Wine | Ohio
• 408: Cider's Pomological Life Coach | Know Your Roots, NY
• 312: Angels Dressed Like Bears | Michael Phillips 1957-2022
• Heartsong Farm and Lost Nation Orchard workshops
• Follow MJ in Australia @getontheciders and his cidery @ciderinfusion
• Follow Adrian Luna @hardciderguy

Looking back at Season 9 and Forward with Roger Wilkins

In this season ending episode we visit Roger Wilkins at his Lands End Farm.

Cider King – Roger Wilkins

Roger Wilkins, is known globally as the "Cider King," and is a legendary figure in Somerset cider-making. He has been running Wilkins' Cider Farm in Mudgley since taking over from his grandfather in 1969. Renowned for his traditional methods, Roger ferments locally grown bittersweet apples in oak barrels, producing unfiltered, unsweetened farmhouse cider. His no-nonsense style and commitment to authenticity have made Wilkins' Cider Farm a pilgrimage site for cider enthusiasts world wide.

Though he has mentioned plans to scale down production, Roger was carrying buckets of apples into the cidery when Ria visited him in October of 2024. This episode features Roger discussing the difficulty for farmers and working with what he calls "Pen Floaters".

Season 9 Recap

Throughout this episode you will hear guest from Season 9, which started with Episode #401. From Chile, the UK, France and Eastern Europe and throughout the U.S.A., Cider Chat has featured guests who both make cider, promote cider, provide leadership for cider and enjoy cider.

With this episode 450 of Cider Chat we are showcasing the oral history of cider in 2025.

So grab a glass and Join the Chat, as we ring out one season and prepare for the next!

Mentioned in this Cider Chat

• Totally Cider Tours
• Cider Chat Podcast Archives – Find over 450 episodes.
  • Use the search bar for up top and plug in a work or name to find an episode on that topic!
• 438: The Secret Sauce to Cider's Growth is #xpromotecider

The Role of the Museum of Cider

• Elizabeth Pimblett's background and her journey to the museum
• The history of the museum, founded in 1887 by the Bulmer brothers
• The significance of the building and its historic cider cellars

What Visitors to the Museum Can Expect

• Permanent exhibits: farmhouse stone press, cider brandy distillery, archival collections
• Rotating exhibitions, including photography and past exhibits like Women in the Art of Cider

The Museum's Hidden Treasures and Highlights

• 18th-century cider glasses with engraved historical messages
• Rare cider books from the 1600s and 1700s, donated by Bertram Bulmer
• The underground rooms that were part of Bulmers original cider caves that had spanned over 3 miles at one time.
• The massive cider press at the entrance
• Cafe
• Cider to purchase

Contact info for Museum of Cider

• Website: https://www.museumofcider.co.uk/

Mentions in this Cider Chat

• Totally Cider Tours
• 317: How a "Cyder" Teapot fueled the American Revolution

The Cider Institute: Training the Next Generation of Cider Makers

The Cider Institute, formerly known as the Cider Institute of North America (CINA), is the premier resource for cider education. Founded in 2016 at CiderCon, the Institute focuses on training cider makers of all levels, from beginners to advanced professionals. With a growing global reach, the Institute now offers online and in-person courses, making cider education more accessible than ever.

In this episode we speak with the Cider Institute's Executive Director Brighid O'Keane.

Executive Director Brighid O'Keane Core Offerings: Cider Education for All Levels

The Cider and Perry Production Foundation Course is the flagship program, covering everything from apple selection to fermentation, chemistry, microbiology, and post-production techniques. This 12-week online course includes weekly Zoom sessions with industry experts, ensuring hands-on engagement even in a virtual format.

For those just getting started, the upcoming Cider Making 101 will be a self-directed, beginner-friendly course, introducing enthusiasts to the fundamentals of cider without the deep technical dive of the foundation course.

For experienced cider makers, advanced courses cover topics like:

• Safety & Sanitation – Ensuring proper practices in cider production
• Sensory Analysis – Understanding cider flavor profiles
• Laboratory Testing – Learning critical quality control techniques
• Operations-Focused Hands-On Training – A five-day immersive experience

A Global Perspective on Cider Training

With increasing international interest, the Cider Institute is expanding worldwide. Upcoming in-person classes for 2025 will be offered at Brock University (Canada), Washington State University, and Virginia Tech, with plans for courses in the UK and beyond. The Institute also runs production tours, fostering knowledge exchange between cider makers across regions.

(Left to right) Board Members – Christine Walter, Brighid O'Keane E.D., Nick Gunn, Chris Gerling, Steven Trussler, Nicole Leibon, Dave Takush, Kira Bassingthwaighte Contact Info for the Cider Institute

• Website: https://www.ciderinstitute.com/

Mentions in this Cider Chat

• Totally Cider Tours
• Kordick Family Farm – newsletter sign up at https://kordickfamilyfarm.com/
  • Note the apple pretzels in the tree below

• Know Your Roots Consulting – newsletter sign up at