Bringing Cider to Hungary: The Story of Abaliget Garden Projects

In this episode of Cider Chat, we learn about the southwest Hungary, where Ancha Gergely is building Abaliget Garden Projects, her small-scale cidery focused on Hungarian apples, pears, and centuries-old varieties. Ancha's journey began in England, where she developed a love for cider. For Hungary it appears that there is little known about cider or cider making, prompting her to craft her own.

Ancha Gergely

With a deep passion for apples and heritage varieties, Ancha started her orchard in 2018 by grafting local and English varieties onto Hungarian rootstock. Her husband's contribution of English cider apple graft wood expanded the orchard significantly, leading to her current collection of 600 apple and pear varieties.

Ciders at Abaliget Orchard Projects

Ancha crafts unique Hungarian ciders that highlight the region's apple diversity. Some of her featured ciders include:

• Fishti – A smoky cider aged in a Speyside whiskey barrel, offering mellow whiskey notes balanced with local apples.
• Birs is the Hungarian work for Quince – This is a 100% quince cider with a delicate sweetness

Abaliget Garden's Quince Cider Back label of Birs – Quince Apple Varieties at Abaliget Garden

Abaliget Garden includes a mix of English, Hungarian, and other European varieties. Here are a few notable apples in her collection:

• Kanizsai – A classic Hungarian apple with a sweet profile
• Húsvéti Rozmaring – Known for its rosemary scent, this apple can keep until Easter
• Various Perry Pears – 20 different types from the UK, bringing unique flavor profiles for perry production

Cider Making Techniques at Abaliget

Ancha's approach to cider-making combines traditional fermentation methods with her unique orchard composition, balancing Hungarian and English influences. In addition to cider, her nursery serves as a source for new Hungarian cider makers, offering heritage and cider-specific apple trees.

Contact Info for Abaliget Garden Projects

• Website: Abaliget Garden Projects via Facebook

Mentions in the Cider Chat

• Totally Cider Tours
• EsoTerra Ciderworks – Arboretum Initiative
• Cider Explorer review of Abaliget Garden Projects ciders and perry

Discovering Domaine Johanna Cécillon: A Journey of Cider, Heritage, and Terroir

Johanna Cécillon and her husband, Louis Cécillon, have deep ties in the world of fermented drinks, and are now merging their wine heritage with cider-making in Brittany. Domaine Johanna Cécillon, near Dinan, honors family tradition and innovation through biodynamic farming methods. Established on family land from the 1800s, Johanna brings a refined approach to cider, embracing natural processes that reflect the land's unique terroir.

Louis and Johanna Cécillon

Biodynamic Practices and Natural Fermentation

At Domaine Johanna Cécillon, the orchard is certified biodynamic, preserving the ecosystem and producing exceptional quality fruit. Johanna practices natural fermentation, using no added yeasts or sulfites to allow the true flavor of each apple variety to shine. A dedication to biodynamics reflects Johanna's commitment to safe farming practices for the entire ecosystem - people, animals, plants and the environment.

The Ciders of Domaine Johanna Cécillon

• Poiré – 5% A delicate pear cider, or "poiré," that combines subtle tannins with a soft, dry finish. Aged for two years, it boasts a complex minerality, capturing the terroir of Brittany with every sip.
• Divona – 5% This cider is crafted from acid-forward apples, bringing a refreshing minerality and gentle sweetness. With a very low bitterness, Divona offers a light and dry profile that balances softness with crisp fruit notes.
• Toutatis– 7% Aged in Saint Joseph wine barrels, Tutatis is an innovative cider with rich oak flavors that enhance its complexity. This cider features subtle hints of white wine, bringing an added layer of depth and sophistication to the apple-forward character.
• Taranis – 8% Taranis is a blend of perry and cider and aged in Syrah barrels, offering an amber hue and distinctive, refined tannins.
• Nerios – 5% Nerios is a tribute to the traditional cider-making heritage of Brittany. Made from heritage apple varieties, it has a robust tannic profile, warm amber color, and offers a classic, rustic flavor with layers of depth and a lingering finish.

Contact Info for Domaine Johanna Cécillon

Domaine Johanna Cécillon welcomes visitors by appointment to experience the ciders firsthand and enjoy a tranquil orchard tour. Purchase is available on-site, or find their ciders internationally.

• Website: Domaine Johanna Cécillon

Mentions in this Cider Chat

• Totally Cider Tours
• Support Cider Chat via Patreon on your web browser
• 408: Cider's Pomological Life Coach | Know Your Roots, NY - Mike Biltonen on Biodynamic Orchard Care
• 123: The Poiré Fermier - The Perry Farmer

Innovation at Cidrerie Manoir du Val: Blending Tradition and Modernity

Located in Normandy's Pays de Risle, Cidrerie Manoir du Val and with maker Marie Bourut at the helm s crafting innovative ciders with a nod to tradition. With Marie's husband Thomas Courtoux., this couple has transformed a historic orchard. From pioneering the production of Blanc Cider (white cider) to fermenting with Sorbus Domestica via the distinctive La Cormé Cidre, the duo's approach is reshaping the way we think about Normandy cider.

In this Cider Chat

Arnould Nazarian helped connect Cider Chat with Marie and was on hand during this interview and helping with the translation. Arnould's hobby is both finding Sorbus Domestica trees and sharing his affection for this magical fruit. Listen to his two Cider Chat's

• Episode 219 Sorbs Not Sulfites
• Episode 220 Can Sorbus Domestica Save the World

Innovations in Cider-Making at Manoir du Val

One of the standout ferments at Cidrerie Manoir du Val is the development of La Cormé Cidre, a cider made with the unique Sorbus Domestica tree. This rare fruit imparts a complexity and depth of flavor that sets it apart from more traditional apple-based ciders. Marie and her husband have also crafted Blanc Cidre, a white cider made by halting the oxidation process to create a fresh, clear cider that pairs perfectly with seafood and light dishes.

La Corme Cidre

More Innovation! To support the orchard's demanding harvest, Marie's husband, Thomas, designed and built a custom machine called the Delorian. This tricked out tractor picks up apples from the ground, dramatically speeding up the harvesting process and reducing the need for manual labor.

The Ciders of Cidrerie Manoir du Val

• Pink Cider (Rosé) – Made from red-fleshed apples like La Rouge du Val, this vibrant cider is a sweet, fruit-forward offering with a stunning hue.
• La Cormé Cider – This unique cider is made with a blend of apples, pears, and the rare Sorbus Domestica fruit, bringing a balance of tartness and complexity. Note: Arnould and his mother Charlotte pick all the Sorbs used Ciderie Manoir du Val.
• Blanc Cider – A white cider that stands out for its clarity and crispness, perfect for pairing with seafood. The lack of oxidation during pressing keeps the cider fresh and bright- hear how this is done in the episode.
• There is also Calvados, Pommeau, Fresh Pressed Apple Juice and Poiré

Apple Varieties at Manoir du Val

Cidrerie Manoir du Val's ciders are made from a carefully selected range of apple varieties, each chosen for its unique contribution to the cider-making process. Some of the key varieties include:

• La Rouge du Val (Red-fleshed apple) – name after the estate
• La Petit Jaune (Acidic variety)
• Chlorono (Sweet variety)
• Doux Vérets de Carrouges (Sweet variety)
• Benit Rouge & Douce Moen (Bitter Sweet)
• Fréquin Rouge & Marie Menard (Bitter variety)

The Delorian – apple picker upper Where to Find Cidrerie Manoir du Val Ciders

Cidrerie Manoir du Val products are sold both at their farm store and in various locations throughout the Paris region, including:

• Chateau d'Harcourt
• Les Ferme de Gally

If you're ever in Normandy, visiting the cidery is a must — not only for the ciders but also for a closer look at their innovative approach to cider-making.

Contact for Cidrerie Manoir du Val

• Website: https://www.manoirduval.fr/
• Address: EARL Courtoux Bourut, 960 Route du Val, Saint Aubin Le Guichard. 27410 Mesnil-en-ouche

Stay Updated with Cider Chat

To learn more about innovative cider makers like Marie Bourut and stay informed on the latest episodes of Cider Chat, subscribe to the podcast and the Cider Chat YouTube channel. By subscribing, you'll be notified of upcoming episodes that focus on cider-making, so you won't miss any of the exciting stories from the world of cider.

Find Highlights & Tips in This French Cider Tour Recap!

The 2024 cider tour to Paris, Normandy, Brittany and Domfrontais was an absolute success! With guest from the United States, Canada and Hungary the makers in France did a knock out job introducing everyone to the tastes, sights, sounds and people in the region.

This tour is curated and led by Ria Windcaller, the producer and host of Cider Chat

Hear from the guests on the tour and they share their personal highlights, insights and experiences along the cider trail.

Blending Cider with Epic Experiences!

This seven night tour began in Paris, with a meet up at a cider bar and then out to Normandy on the Route du Cidre.

The cider tour table has a place for you!

Evening meals where paired with cider and there was both a Michelin Star Dinner with special guest Etienne Dupont and Mathieu Chevrier of Domaine Dupont. Later this same week, a cider dinner with special guest Eric Bordelet end the week perfectly! Agathe Letellier of Manoir d"Apreval joined the tour group this night and treated us all to a late night talk in the living room of the hotel!

Epic Sights for This Cider Tour Recap

Cider plays the lead role in this journey, but for this cider tour recap UNESCO World Heritage sights also played a big role.

Hear from the guest as they mention some of their favorite tour sight seeing stops on this cider tour.

Be Part of the Next Cider Tour Recap

We certainly hope that you too will want to join us on the next Totally Cider Tour! Get on the Wait List to be the first to know when the next cider tour is rolling out and about to Ciderville!

Send an email to [email protected] and put in the subject heading Cider Tour and we will you add you to eCiderNews list to receive early-to-know-notifications!

Mentions in this Cider Chat

• Totally Cider Tours
• How to say Cheers in Hungary "Egészségére"
• A Hungarian Apple variety called Kanizsai

From Suffolk to Virginia: Stephen Schuurman's Cider Journey

In Episode 428 of Cider Chat, we meet Stephen Schuurman, owner and cider maker at Winchester Ciderworks in Winchester, Virginia. Originally from Suffolk, England, Stephen has brought his deep love of English cider to the northern portion of the Shenandoah Valley. What started as a passion project has grown into a successful business, blending English cider-making techniques with Virginia-grown apples.

Ciders tasted in this Episode

At Winchester Ciderworks, the focus is on producing hard ciders that are not overly sweet nor dry ciders. Expect a wide range of cider offerings and the option for a tasting flight at the Ciderhouse or go directly to the flagship cider, Malice.

Malice is a classic, off-dry cider with a clean, crisp finish and just the right amount of residual sugar. Made with a blend of Virginia apples. At 6.5% ABV, it's sessionable and easy-drinking — perfect for enjoying with friends or pairing with a meal.

522, a cider infused with black currant. Named after the road where Winchester Ciderworks was originally located, this cider blends the tartness of black currants with the brightness of local Virginia apples. At 5.9% ABV

Support Cider Chat and Keep the Stories Flowing

If you're a fan of learning about the stories behind great cider makers like Stephen Schuurman, consider supporting Cider Chat. Your donations help keep the podcast on the air, allowing us to continue sharing stories from the world of cider. To help us continue to bring you these amazing episodes, hit the donate button at CiderChat.com.

Contact for Winchester Ciderworks and Ciderhouse

• Website: https://winchesterciderworks.com/

Mentions in this Cider Chat

• Totally Cider Tours

Collaboration Meets Ingenuity at Heartland Ciderworks

This episode is packed with insights for anyone interested in the intersection of entrepreneurship and craft cider-making. In Episode 427 of Cider Chat, Eliseo Bell-Uribe shares his story as a young entrepreneur and how and why he founded Heartland Ciderworks.

Practical Advice for Cider Startups: Learning to Collaborate

Starting a cidery from scratch is no easy task. The Eliseo shares practical advice on how to navigate the hurdles of zoning issues, sourcing equipment, and finding the right partnerships. By collaborating with a local winery, Heartland was able to sidestep some of the common challenges faced by new cideries, such as acquiring expensive equipment and navigating complex regulations.

For budding cider makers, this episode offers a blueprint for how to creatively solve problems and make the most of available resources. Whether it's building your own bottling setup or finding a winery willing to do custom crush, the key takeaway is to stay flexible and open to collaboration.

A Closer Look at Heartland's Ciders

Heartland Ciderworks may be a young company, but their lineup of ciders is anything but ordinary. Here's a quick look at the ciders discussed in the episode:

• Avalon
  • Description: Heartland's flagship cider that combines Foxwhelp, Golden Russet, Yarlington Mill, and Dabinett apples.
  • ABV: 7.7%
  • Notes: Features a beautiful orange hue with a balance of tannins and acidity.
• Little Apple
  • Description: A low-alcohol cider kin made with rehydrated pomace and back-sweetened with Golden Russet and Foxwhelp.
  • ABV: 3.65%
  • Notes: Easy-drinking with a light and refreshing profile.
• Cooper
  • Description: A bourbon barrel-aged cider made primarily from Sweet Alford apples.
  • ABV: 6.4%
  • Notes: Rich with subtle bourbon notes, this cider is a limited-edition favorite, but more Cooper is in the cue!
• Heart of the Valley
  • Description: A community-foraged cider made with apples gathered from the Salem area, benefiting the local Boys and Girls Club.
  • ABV: 5.75%
  • Notes: A modern cider with a sweeter profile and a beautiful can design.
• Olive Branch
  • Description: A Newtown Pippin cider aged on olive leaves, offering a unique bitterness similar to hops.
  • Notes: A one-of-a-kind cider with complex aromas and a distinctive flavor profile.
• Rosé Cider (Upcoming Release)
  • Description: A co-ferment of red-fleshed apples with Pinot Noir grape skins, lightly oaked for added tannin.

Contact for Heartland Ciderworks

• Website: https://heartlandcw.editorx.io/hlcw
• In the US – Buy Heartland ciders online at Press Then Press

Support Cider Chat

Enjoying the stories brought to you by Cider Chat? Help keep these stories rolling out by supporting the podcast by becoming a patron. Your support helps keep the podcast on the air, allowing us to continue bringing you inspiring stories like this one.

Mentions in this Cider Chat

• Totally Cider Tours
• Cider Institute of North America

Discover Red Island Cider on Prince Edward Island

Guest podcaster Al Saxs interviews Red Island Cider owner and maker Robert van Waarden in this episode 426 of Cider Chat.

Red Island Cider is located on Canada's reknown "Prince Edward Island" capital "Charlottetown" this cidery has helped revive the island's apple heritage while creating unique, story-driven ciders that reflect the culture, history and spirit of the region. Whether you're an orchardist, a cider maker, or simply a cider traveler, visiting Red Island Cider is an experience that goes beyond the glass.

The Art of Crafting Ciders with Local Stories

At Red Island Cider, every cider has a story. The flagship cider, Father Walker, is named after a local priest who inadvertently created a legendary batch of cider that fueled an unforgettable community gathering in at The Picnic at Groshaut 1897.

The story goes that between having the apples pressed for the Groshaut picnic and the actual picnic the cider had begun to ferment. The song details the events that day as the now fermented cider was being drunk.

To listen to the full song sung by Art Cahill, https://digitalcommons.library.umaine.edu/songstorysamplercollection/19/

Father Walker's is a dry cider, made with Northern Spy, McIntosh, and Cortland apples and recently won a gold medal at the Great Lakes International Cider and Perry Competition (GLINTCAP), cementing its place as a top-tier craft cider.

Another standout is Devonport, a hop cider named after a historic bar in Charlottetown known for growing its own hops in the 1830s. This cider offers a citrusy, grapefruit-forward profile that appeals to both beer drinkers and cider enthusiasts alike.

Red Island's Ghost Series is a collection of limited-edition ciders, each named after historic shipwrecks off the coast of Prince Edward Island. These ciders, draw inspiration from the tales of ships like the Conqueror and Castalia, which met their fates in the island's treacherous waters. The Rose made with locally sourced haskap berries has a vibrant rosé hue and notes of raspberry, blueberry, and cranberry notes, is a true taste of PEI's agricultural bounty.

Loyalist Road Cider is a complex blend made from 27 different apple varieties sourced from a small orchard near Charlottetown.

Robert on the French Cider Tour next to one of the many massive barrels at Manoir de Montreuil Al Saxs steaming mussels with Red Island Cider Contact for Red Island Cider

• Website: https://redislandcider.com/

Mentions in this Cider Chat

• French Cider Tour
• #xpromotecider @spacetimemeads
• #xpromotecider @puntadefierro
• #xpromotecider @tomoliverscider
• #xpromotecider @woodyperennialguthrie

#xpromotecider

The Showering name is synonymous with both innovation and tradition in the world of cider for the past 187 years. In this Episode 425 of Cider Chat, Nick Showering shares a bit on his family's cider-making roots that stretch back over 400 years and in the past 180 years in the town of Shepton Mallet, Somerset, England.

Nick Showering A Storied Legacy in Somerset

The Showerings have been crafting cider in Somerset for nearly two centuries. It all began with a small pub, The Ship Inn, where cider was made and served locally. As generations passed, the family expanded their influence, eventually creating Babycham—a sparkling perry that revolutionized the beverage industry and played a key role in shaping British drinking culture in the 1950s. The playful brand with the signature reindeer brought a fresh, elegant option to women in a male-dominated pub scene.

Hello Triple Vintage!

Triple Vintage is made with 100% cider apples all grown in Somerset. The featured apple in this cider is Dabinett. Solera, the technique of blending different ferments, in this case three different vintages of high-tannin apples, creates a delectable cider that balances depth of flavor with an elegant finish for the Triple Vintage.

Enjoy the Triple Vintage which is sold throughout the UK in fine dining establishments or online (link below) in a large stemmed red wine glass. Serve slightly chilled.

The Triple Vintage comes in 375 ML bottles.

What's Next for the Showerings?

With their sights set on continuing to produce fine cider and Nick Showering clearly enjoying the challenge, time will tell. For now it appears it is all about maintaining a foot in the door of the ever increasing "fine cider" category and the prospects of introducing a new generation of drinkers to the possibilities of high-quality cider…making that very good news for the industry at large.

Contact for Showerings Triple Vintage

• Website: https://showeringscider.co.uk/products/showerings-triple-vintage-cider

Mentions in this Cider Chat

• Episode 422 John Bunker Keynote: Orchards and Legacy
• Episode 423 Apple Identification 101 John Bunker
• Subscribe to Cider Chat YouTube
• Totally Cider Tour - French Cider Tour
• Woodfolk Cider, Ontario Canada
• Spy Ciderworks & Distillery, Ontario Canada

Apple Phenotyping: The Tools Every Orchardist Needs

In Episode 424 of Cider Chat, we dive deeper into the intricate world of apple identification, this time focusing on apple phenotyping — the art and science of describing apples by their physical characteristics. This is Part 3 of the three part series on John Bunker, renowned author, apple detective, and founder of FEDCO Trees. Expect a master class and experiential lesson as he shares his extensive experience and provides a valuable toolbox of techniques that for apple fans, cider makers and orchardist.

What is Phenotyping?

Apple phenotyping refers to the process of identifying and describing apples by their observable physical traits, such as size, shape, color, and texture. These characteristics, known as phenotypes, help orchardists distinguish between different apple cultivars. While apples may be genetically identical, they can exhibit slight variations based on their environment, making phenotyping a key skill for identifying and preserving apple varieties.

Why is Apple Phenotyping Important?

Phenotyping is more than just a way to describe apples; it's a critical method for orchard care, especially for those looking to preserve historic and rare apple varieties. John emphasizes that understanding the nuances of the apples you grow allows you to ensure that your orchard is correctly labeled and organized. This attention to detail not only improves the quality of your cider apples but also helps preserve the legacy of historic cultivars.

Phenotyping also allows orchardists to confirm apple identities in cases where DNA testing isn't readily accessible or when historical records are incomplete. Whether you're comparing apples from different orchards or identifying a lost variety, having a reliable set of phenotyping techniques in your toolbox is essential.

Watch this entire presentation at Cider Chat YouTube

The Orchardist's Toolbox: Key Techniques for Phenotyping

John encourages orchardists to keep a thorough record of the apples they grow, noting characteristics such as:

• Size and Shape: Measure the diameter of the apple and observe its overall shape (e.g., round, oblate, or conic).
• Color and Skin: Note the ground color (the apple's underlying color) and any blushes, stripes, or russeting that appear on the skin.
• Stem and Cavity: Examine the length and thickness of the stem, as well as the depth and width of the cavity where the stem attaches.
• Calyx and Basin: Check whether the calyx (the dried flower at the apple's base) is open or closed, and assess the depth and shape of the basin around it.
• Core and Seeds: Cut the apple open to analyze the core's shape, size, and location, as well as the number and appearance of seeds.

These observations not only help you identify your apples but also provide insights into the health of your orchard and the quality of your cider apples.

Join the Conversation on Cider Chat YouTube

To see John Bunker's full slideshow presentation on phenotyping apples and learn even more about his techniques, be sure to subscribe to the Cider Chat YouTube Channel. This episode is packed with invaluable knowledge for anyone looking to refine their skills in orchard care and apple identification.

Mentions in this Cider Chat

• Episode 422 John Bunker Keynote: Orchards and Legacy
• Subscribe to Cider Chat YouTube
• Totally Cider Tour – French Cider Tour
• American Cider Association – CiderCon 2025

In Episode 423 of Cider Chat, we delve into the fascinating world of apple identification a.k.a. Apple Id with the one and only John Bunker, a renowned author and the c0-founder of FEDCO Trees, Maine Organic Farmers and Gardners Association (MOFGA). Hear as he shares his lifelong passion for tracking down historic apple varieties and teaching others how to preserve these treasures is truly inspiring.

This presentation is part one of a two-part series on Apple ID recorded at CiderCon2024.

John Bunker portrait by John Alsop of Cornville, ME

Hear John Bunker walking us through the intricacies of apple identification, reminding us that it's not just about identifying a fruit — it's about preserving history. For orchardists and cider makers, understanding the varieties in your care is a crucial part of maintaining the integrity of your orchard and the quality of your cider apples.

00:00 Introduction to Cider Chat and Apple Mysteries

01:37 John Bunker's Apple Identification Journey

04:11 The Importance of Apple Identification

10:11 Understanding Apple Trees and Grafting

21:39 Resources for Apple Identification

25:37 DNA Profiling and Apple Identification

30:12 Practical Apple Identification Scenarios

33:40 Mentors and the Black Oxford Apple

34:39 DNA Profiling and Apple Identification

37:06 The Mystery of the Canadian Strawberry

38:52 The Hunt for Lost Apples

41:36 Identifying Seedlings and Grafted Trees

45:49 Commercial Orchards and Misidentified Apples

48:47 The Role of Historical Records in Apple Identification

53:26 The Fun and Challenges of Apple Hunting

58:05 Becoming an Apple Detective

01:04:31 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Contact for John Bunker

• Website: Outonthelimbapple.com

• Books recommended in this episode:

  • Apples and the Art of Detection by John Bunker (2019)
  • Systemic Pomology by UP Hedrick 1925
  • The American Fruit Culturist: Containing Practical Directions for the Propagation and Culture of All Fruits Adapted to the United States, John Thomas 1849
  • The Fruit Manual, Robert Hogg 1886
  • Episode 422 John Bunker Keynote: Orchards and Legacy
  • Subscribe to Cider Chat YouTube
  • Totally Cider Tours - French Cider Tour