Beyond Organic Wine

After spending the year learning some of the limits of regenerative wine, and reporting those in the Death in the Vineyard mini-series, I wanted to spend some time exploring what regenerative wine could be. This is a stand-alone episode, but it also functions as an epilogue to the Death In The Vineyard series. 

The most important lesson I learned this year is that it is impossible to grow or make wine “regeneratively,” or even to grow organically or biodynamically in a meaningful way, or to make “natural” wine in any way that isn’t green-washing, unless you start with an ecological foundation. But what does that mean?

What does an ecological approach to winegrowing and wine making look like?

This episode looks at two brilliant and unique approaches to growing and making an ecological wine business. It is meant to excite and tempt and titillate you about how we could have a very different experience with wine. This episode is an invitation. I invite you to cultivate your imagination for what's possible, to think constructively of alternative perspectives on winegrowing, to recreate your understanding of what it means to be regenerative. I invite you into a new vision for wine.

This episode and the others in this series took a lot of work to produce. If you'd like to support or sponsor them financially, this would be incredibly helpful to enabling me to continue to do this kind of investigating and reporting. 

You Can Support this podcast by subscribing via patreon.

Or by donating or taking action at:

Beyond Organic Wine

This episode is a conversation I got to have with Ariana Ross and James Sligh. Ariana you may remember from an earlier episode in which I talked to her about her treatise, Wine’s Way To Art, and James is the creator of and educator at The Children’s Atlas of Wine. This conversation is about what we talk about when we talk about wine, and it includes philosophy, history, politics, social justice, art criticism, and of course agriculture. You may learn some juicy historical tidbits that upend your understanding of what is classic or traditional in regards to wine, or some wines, and which wines get left out of these ideas and why. Rather than arriving at a consensus of ideas, I think we helped each other see the unanswered questions in each of our ideas, and we came away with a more expansive understanding of, at least, wine. And I hope you do too.

https://childrensatlasofwine.com/

@childrensatlasofwine

https://www.whoisariana.com/

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Beyond Organic Wine

My guest for this episode is Steve Matthiasson. This is the second time I’ve interviewed Steve, so I highly recommend listening to the first episode from about three years ago if you haven’t. Steve is the eponymous dude behind Matthiasson Wines, and maybe dude is the wrong title for Steve. He might be more of a punk rebel organic evangelist operating from inside the Cabernet Curtain in the heart of Napa Valley. Surprisingly for this podcast, you’re going to hear praise for James Suckling AND The Mondavi Family, and a hopeful outlook for classical wines in California despite climate change. But much more importantly, and less surprisingly, you’re going to hear numerous incredibly helpful technical vitiultural insights into how to farm grapes organically to make fresh, vibrant wines in an increasingly hotter world. Once again, I recommend getting out your notepad and pencil for this one.

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Beyond Organic Wine

How do we reconcile the need to take life in order to grow life and survive? 

What are the consequences of not growing wine ecologically, first?

What does a vole infestation tell us about the human story?

What role does death have in our winegrowing?

Should regenerative viticulture, regenerative wine growing, attempt to reduce the amount of killing necessary to produce wine?

This episode and the others in this series took a lot of work to produce. If you'd like to support or sponsor them financially, this would be incredibly helpful to enabling me to continue to do this kind of investigating and reporting. 

You Can Support this podcast by subscribing via patreon.

Or by donating or taking action at:

Beyond Organic Wine

Do humans have a vole infestation or do voles have a human infestation? This and other questions from this episode may haunt your dreams and have you wondering if maybe "regenerative winegrowing" is an oxymoron. 

The big question of Part 2 of the Death In The Vineyard mini-series is "What are the regenerative solutions to all the things that want to eat our wine crops?"

In trying to answer this question Part 2 looks at the cultural assumptions, language, beliefs, and prejudices that inform the way we currently see and relate to all of the lives that feed on our vines and trees. 

Get ready to take a wrecking ball to your ideas about Integrated Pest Management, not to mention your assumptions about snakes. 

Additionally, you'll get a list of practical tactics for preventing or stopping vole infestations or other plagues of rodents. 

Don't listen to this episode unless you're ready to be a global leader in regenerative winegrowing and regenerative agriculture in general. 

This episode and the others in this series took a lot of work to produce. If you'd like to support or sponsor them financially, this would be incredibly helpful to enabling me to continue to do this kind of investigating and reporting. 

You Can Support this podcast by subscribing via patreon.

Or by donating or taking action at:

Beyond Organic Wine

In this episode I get to talk to Abbey Chrystal, Ken Swegles & Cole Thomas of Madson Wines and Rhizos and Skyline Viticulture and a few other ventures.

If you haven’t heard of the Santa Cruz Mountains AVA, you’re about to be introduced to a wine region unlike any other. I didn’t realize how special it was until Abbey, Ken, and Cole began describing it, and they may know it better than anyone else because between them they farm, make wine, and sell wine from up to over 50 vineyards around the AVA and have initiated transitions to better than organic farming on many area vineyards.

The Madson Wines website says, “As a standard, all of the vineyards that we work with have been converted to 100% organic practices. We use only ecologically based pest controls and biological fertilizers including animal waste and nitrogen fixing cover crops to help regulate and maintain the health of soil microbes. Many of our vineyards were not organic prior to our adoption; we find that motivating vineyard owners to adopt organics is more rewarding than merely searching for growers who already understand its value. However, organic agriculture does not encompass all of the solutions for responsible agriculture. We must explore beyond the organic system to maintain and improve our surrounding ecosystems and communities.” It then goes on to talk about their goal to practice regenerative viticulture in an effort to help their farming evolve with the changing climate and mitigate the effects of climate change. 

In addition to these very admirable farming values, these guys are kind, generous, and compassionate people with lots to share. 

https://www.madsonwines.com/

https://www.rhizosconsulting.com/+

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Beyond Organic Wine

We’re going back to Michigan for this episode to talk to Andrew Backlin, the production mangager / winemaker of Modales Wines in Fenville, Michigan. You may have heard Andrew’s voice already if you listened to the first part of my special Death In the Vineyard series.

Andrew introduced me to a little known fact outside of Michigan. Michigan farmers produce over 300 different kinds of crops, making Michigan the second most agriculturally diverse state in the US… after only California. 

Andrew tells the story of Modales’ transition from conventional wine production just four years ago, to fully organic for the last three years and now certified… growing mostly vinifera. Their vineyard went from dead, round-up nuked hardpan with basically zero organic matter, to living, thriving, healthy soils with worms and a 400% increase in organic matter. You can hear in his voice and enthusiasm that his participation in regenerating this ecosystem has lit him up, and it’s infectious.

On the other hand, he also doesn’t shy away from mentioning the big problems that still face winegrowers who want to do the right thing but who have inherited a large investment in vinifera in a temperate, humid climate that was made possible by chemistry.

I want to mention just one of those issues as a call to action. Andrew at one point mentions the fact that because something like 95% of the wine in the US comes from the west coast where we don’t face problems like black rot, very little research and investment has gone into organic controls for black rot specifically, and it is the main Achilles heel of organic viticulture in humid climates. While I of course think grape breeding should be a primary effort to solve this and other fungal issues, the reality is that many hybrids also have issues with black rot, and there are very few hybrids that can tolerate this fungus in very wet years. And Andrew brings up several other great points about why better organic sprays are necessary given the current wine culture… unless the USDA wants to invest millions of dollars on marketing to create a new wine culture that’s not chauvinistic toward hybrids.

Come to think of it, the USDA could sponsor this podcast to help with that effort….

A few other important things to know about Andrew… he’s a California native who moved to Michigan for wine. He gave me the inspiration and gentle kick in the butt to create the Beyond Organic Wine google group for anyone who is learning and trying to farm and make wine in more ecological, better than organic ways … and if you’d like to join, just log into google go to groups and search beyondorganicwine all one word with no spaces and ask to join. It’s a low key vibe community… no one is trying to sell anything, but we’re there when you have questions or important discoveries to share… and the more the merrier, healthier, and better at farming and winemaking we will be. So we hope to connect with you there.

Finally, I have tried Andrew’s wines and I they are wines I can’t wait to buy again, and not just because I want to support their leadership in Michigan organic viticulture. They are delicious, diverse, and interesting. Andrew makes what he calls “natural wines that you don’t know are natural” for Modales. He has some classic cool-climate single variety wines, as well as some blends of vinifera and hybrids, sparkling and orange. And if you’d like to try them or, in my case, re-try them, Modales has created a 20% discount code that is good until the end of the year. The code is MODALESBOW20 for 20% off wine purchases until the end of 2024. 

And you can purchase those wines at Modaleswines.com

Now the one catch is that because of Michigan’s protectionist and litigious stance on interstate wine commerce, shipping is only available for those of you who live in Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Florida, Arizona. The rest of us just need to go visit… apparently Michigan is worth the trip.

As Andrew talks us through both the hopes and the realities of transitioning to organic vinifera viticulture in his climate, there’s as much to learn as be inspired by. Enjoy.

Michigan is the #2 farming state in diversity of crops

https://farmflavor.com/michigan/michigan-farm-to-table/diversity-of-michigan-agriculture/

https://modaleswines.com/

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Or by donating or taking action at:

Beyond Organic Wine

I experienced a vole infestation in a vineyard for the first time, and it has devastated my understanding of regenerative viticulture. In this first of a multi-part series called Death In the Vineyard, I talk to experts and winegrowers from all over the US about this adorable little creature, the vole, and the massive impact it has had historically and ecologically in our wine landscapes. As I follow the threads of truth that unravel before the voracious voles, they reveal some gaping holes in the fabric of our regenerative ideology. This episode and the ones to follow in this mini-series will question some of your most cherished beliefs and ideals about regenerative wine. If the regenerative movement is to survive, I believe we need to begin answering the questions that voles are asking of us. 

This episode and the others in this series took a lot of work to produce. If you'd like to support or sponsor them financially, this would be incredibly helpful to enabling me to continue to do this kind of investigating and reporting. 

You Can Support this podcast by subscribing via patreon.

Or by donating or taking action at:

Beyond Organic Wine

“Thinking like a vine,” is a motto that Paul Rolt and Jemma Vickers of Hebron Vineyard in Wales, UK farm by. Hebron Vineyard is the first vineyard in Wales — and the UK — to be Certified Regenerative by A Greener World (AGW). Paul and Jemma use no sprays or off-farm inputs to grow their vines – zero zero farming which preceeds the same kind of zero zero, raw and living winemaking. To do this they focus on creating optimal health and growing conditions for their Rondo and Solaris piwi varieties of grapes by using what is available on site. In considering what might be optimal for a vine, they implemented an arbustrum and have grown vines for four years in a living willow tree trellis system. The design of this system is ingenious and inspired by ancient practices. Willow has unique advantages both below and above ground, and Paul and Jemma’s vineyard is just one of the many styles of vitiforestry that showcase the deep and multi-layered benetfits of married vine polycultures.

The biggest critique that I can imagine for this kind of approach to wine growing is that it can’t be commercial because some years you won’t get a crop. When I asked Paul and Jemma about the problems of farming wine this way, they admitted they have limits. They know them and know they must work within them. That’s very different than the persptive that sees limits as problems that must be overcome by any means necessary, though. Both of those mindsets have consequences. In Paul and Jemma’s case they have prioritized ecological and psychological health, beauty and biodiversity, family and quality of life, and long-term resilience and independence.

@hebronvineyard

https://www.hebronvineyard.com/

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Or by donating or taking action at:

Beyond Organic Wine

Sponsor:

Centralas Wine

An epic conversation with David Bos of @BosWine in Michigan, so I’m going to keep this intro short. Dave is a fantastic ambassador for Michigan wine, and yet he spent more than a decade growing and making wine organically and biodynamically in Napa Valley first. So his enthusiasm seems well informed, and I hope you find it as infectious as I did. Seen through Dave’s eyes, Michigan sounds pretty exciting. Even more importantly to me Dave is a fantastic ambassador for biodynamic and organic viticulture, so this conversation is LOADED.

https://www.boswine.com/

You Can Support this podcast by subscribing via patreon.

Or by donating or taking action at:

Beyond Organic Wine

Sponsor:

Centralas Wine