We follow Herman from the lecture halls of Louisiana to the forests of Brazil – and through a period of global upheaval and personal transformation. Herman was profoundly shaped by the realities of inequality and ecological fragility in the Global South. These experiences helped crystallize his vision of a steady-state economy; one that operates within the planet’s ecological limits and prioritizes human wellbeing and ecological boundaries over endless growth.

With reflections from his family and followers, this episode captures the moment Daly’s thinking moved from quiet resistance to creating economic theories that would go on to have a truly global influence. 

Featured in this episode:

Colvis Cavalcanti, ecological economist

Brian Czech, Author of Shoveling Fuel for a Runaway Train and executive director of the Center for the Advancement of the Steady State Economy

Rob Dietz, Program Director at the Post-Carbon Institute, co-author of Enough is Enough, and co-host of Crazy Town

Terri Daly Stewart, Senior Occupational Therapist and Herman and Marcia's eldest daughter

Karen Daly Junker, Senior Manager of Provenance Research at the Virginia Museum of Fine Arts and Herman and Marcia’s youngest daughter

Denis Lynn Daly Heyck (Deni), Professor Emeritus of Spanish language and literature and Herman's sister

Katy Shields, Regenerative economist and co-creator/host of Tipping Point

Peter Victor, Professor Emeritus of ecological economics & author of Herman Daly’s Economics for a Full World

Kate Raworth, Author of Doughnut Economics and co-founder of the Doughnut Economics Action Lab

Thank you to the Daly family for their generous support in sharing Herman’s story.

Thank you also to our series consultants and fact checkers, Peter Harnik, Rob Dietz, and Peter Victor, who also graciously supplied the interview tape with Herman Daly, recorded in 2022.

Visit the Cities 1.5 podcast page on UTP’s website for the media citations used in this episode.

If you want to learn more about the Journal of City Climate Policy and Economy, please visit our website: https://jccpe.utpjournals.press/

Cities 1.5 is produced by the University of Toronto Press and Cities 1.5 is supported by C40 Cities and the C40 Centre for City Climate Policy and Economy. You can sign up to the Centre newsletter here. https://thecentre.substack.com/

Cities 1.5 is hosted by David Miller, Managing Director of the C40 Centre and author of the book Solved. It's written and produced by Peggy Whitfield and Jess Schmidt: https://jessdoespodcasting.com/

Our executive producer is Chiara Morfeo.

Edited by Morgane Chambrin: https://www.morganechambrin.com/

Cities 1.5 music is by Lorna Gilfedder: https://origamipodcastservices.com/

Herman Daly was a founding father of ecological economics: more than half a century ago, he warned that the pursuit of endless economic growth was driving ecological collapse and harming society, as well as harming society - and came up with a plan to unbreak our economy. 

Dismissed by mainstream economists, pushed out of the World Bank, and even targeted by menacing, anonymous threats, Daly paid a high price for challenging our unsustainable global system. But now, as climate breakdown accelerates and the failures of neoliberalism become increasingly apparent, his ideas are more relevant - and more vital - than ever. Now is the time for his theories and his legacy to get the attention they deserve. 

In the opening episode, we hear from the person who knew his story best: himself. Featuring never-heard-before interviews with Herman, alongside reflections from a whole host of experts, scholars and collaborators. We trace his childhood battle with polio, his whirlwind romance with his wife, Marcia and the moment Herman discovered the first piece of the puzzle in solving the intertwined economic, societal and climate crises: the concept of uneconomic growth.

Featured in this episode:

Peter Victor, Professor emeritus of ecological economics and author of Herman Daly’s Economics for a Full World

Gaya Herrington, Wellbeing economist & thought leader

Joshua Farley, Professor of ecological economics

Katherine Trebeck, Political Economist & writer

Denis (Deni) Lynn Daly Heyck, Professor Emeritus of Spanish Language and Literature and Herman’s sister

Terri Daly Stewart, Senior Occupational Therapist, and Herman and Marcia’s elder daughter

Karen Daly Junker, Senior Manager of Provenance Research at the Virginia Museum of Fine Arts, and Herman and Marcia’s younger daughter

Thank you to the Daly family for their generous support in sharing Herman’s story, and to Barbara Barros for voicing Marcia Daly’s email in this episode. Thank you also to our series consultants, Peter Harnik, Rob Dietz, and Peter Victor, who also graciously supplied the interview tape with Herman Daly, recorded in 2022.

If you want to learn more about the Journal of City Climate Policy and Economy, please visit our website: https://jccpe.utpjournals.press/

Cities 1.5 is produced by the University of Toronto Press and Cities 1.5 is supported by C40 Cities and the C40 Centre for City Climate Policy and Economy. You can sign up to the Centre newsletter here. https://thecentre.substack.com/

Cities 1.5 is hosted by David Miller, Managing Director of the C40 Centre and author of the book Solved. It's written and produced by Peggy Whitfield and Jess Schmidt: https://jessdoespodcasting.com/

Our executive producer is Chiara Morfeo.

Edited by Morgane Chambrin: https://www.morganechambrin.com/

Cities 1.5 music is by Lorna Gilfedder: https://origamipodcastservices.com/

Is it time to retire the concept of growth as the sole measure of prosperity? This summer, join host David Miller for a special miniseries dedicated to Herman Daly, an economist who transformed how we think about growth. Featuring never heard before interviews with Daly himself alongside experts, scholars, and Herman’s nearest and dearest, this is a story you won’t want to miss!

The first episode of Going Steady with Herman Daly debuts on August 19th, 2025. We can’t wait for you to hear it!

If you want to learn more about the Journal of City Climate Policy and Economy, please visit our website: https://jccpe.utpjournals.press/

Cities 1.5 is produced by the University of Toronto Press and Cities 1.5 is supported by C40 Cities and the C40 Centre for City Climate Policy and Economy. You can sign up to the Centre newsletter here. https://thecentre.substack.com/

Cities 1.5 is hosted by David Miller, Managing Director of the C40 Centre and author of the book Solved. It's written and produced by Peggy Whitfield and Jess Schmidt: https://jessdoespodcasting.com/

Our executive producer is Chiara Morfeo.

Edited by Morgane Chambrin: https://www.morganechambrin.com/

Cities 1.5 music is by Lorna Gilfedder: https://origamipodcastservices.com/

Herman Daly would have turned 87 years old on July 21st, 2025. While he is no longer with us, his ideas have lived on - shaping an economic future that we haven’t yet achieved, but is steadily becoming the most probable way forward in the face of rising temperatures, extreme weather events, and ecological and economic decimation.

But who exactly was Herman Daly? Why was his work scorned by the World Bank? And how can his plan for world economics save the planet?

Featuring economists Gaya Herrington, Tim Jackson, Kate Raworth, along with other experts, scholars, and Herman's nearest and dearest, join host David Miller for a special limited series exploring the life of Herman Daly, the economist who transformed the thinking of some of the leading economic and climate thinkers of our times. Going Steady premieres this August - check back on this feed for updates!

If you want to learn more about the Journal of City Climate Policy and Economy, please visit our website: https://jccpe.utpjournals.press/

Cities 1.5 is produced by the University of Toronto Press and Cities 1.5 is supported by C40 Cities and the C40 Centre for City Climate Policy and Economy. You can sign up to the Centre newsletter here. https://thecentre.substack.com/

Cities 1.5 is hosted by David Miller, Managing Director of the C40 Centre and author of the book Solved. It's written and produced by Peggy Whitfield and Jess Schmidt: https://jessdoespodcasting.com/

Our executive producer is Chiara Morfeo.

Edited by Morgane Chambrin: https://www.morganechambrin.com/

Cities 1.5 music is by Lorna Gilfedder: https://origamipodcastservices.com/

For hundreds of years, people have been pondering the power of information. In this past season of Cities 1.5, we’ve seen examples of cities from around the world who are using data and the lived experiences of their inhabitants to create policies that support healthier lives for people and planet: from Freetown, Sierra Leone, to Tokyo, Japan, to Princeton, Canada. But while history - and our own conversations on this podcast - prove that knowledge is powerful…it isn’t always easy to come by. For the final episode of Cities 1.5 season 5, David meets two knowledge and dissemination specialists who speak with him about the importance of data and information for climate action and what other ingredients are key to effective communications about global heating. 

Featured guests:

Katie Walsh, Head of Climate Finance for Cities, States, and Regions at CDP

Andrea Learned, climate influence catalyst and strategist

Links:

Leviathan by Thomas Hobbes

Cities are responsible for over 70% of global greenhouse gas emissions - World Bank

Global Covenant of Mayors

Earth Positive Action - CDP

Cities Climate Finance Leadership Alliance Forum

Global Snapshot Report 2024 - CDP

Paris Climate Agreement

CHAMP - C40

Andrea Learned’s Green Biz article on the five Ls of Twitter leadership

Living Change podcast

Bike Talk podcast

Bowinn MA, Canadian politician elected to the Legislative Assembly of British Columbia in 2017

Album: Joy as an act of resistance

Sus

If you want to learn more about the Journal of City Climate Policy and Economy, please visit our website: https://jccpe.utpjournals.press/

Cities 1.5 is produced by the University of Toronto Press and Cities 1.5 is supported by C40 Cities and the C40 Centre for City Climate Policy and Economy. You can sign up to the Centre newsletter here. https://thecentre.substack.com/

Cities 1.5 is hosted by David Miller, Managing Director of the C40 Centre and author of the book Solved. It's written and produced by Peggy Whitfield and Jess Schmidt: https://jessdoespodcasting.com/

Our executive producer is Chiara Morfeo.

Edited by Morgane Chambrin: https://www.morganechambrin.com/

Cities 1.5 music is by Lorna Gilfedder: https://origamipodcastservices.com/

The building and construction sector is responsible for a mind-boggling 37% of global greenhouse gas emissions. The kinds of construction materials we use - and the building sector generally - are also responsible for almost a third of global resource consumption. Shifting to cleaner methods of construction is the only way to minimize the damage we are causing to the planet, while still providing homes, workplaces and vital infrastructure for all.

Featured guests:

Henrique Goes, Clean Construction Manager at C40

Vivek Parekh, Fossil Fuels Program Manager at InfluenceMap

Links:

The building and construction sector’s share in global greenhouse gas emissions - World Economic Forum

UN prediction for rural to urban migration - Our World in Data

Premature deaths from household air pollution - World Health Organization

Clean Construction Programme - C40 Cities

Report on clean construction and green job opportunities - C40 Cities

Influence Map’s LobbyMap

International Gas Union’s Climate Strategy - Influence Map

Electrification as the clearest pathway for decarbonising buildings - IPCC report

State of Victoria’s Gas Substitution Roadmap - Victoria State Government

EU’s Energy Performance of Buildings Directive - European Commission

If you want to learn more about the Journal of City Climate Policy and Economy, please visit our website: https://jccpe.utpjournals.press/

Cities 1.5 is produced by the University of Toronto Press and Cities 1.5 is supported by C40 Cities and the C40 Centre for City Climate Policy and Economy. You can sign up to the Centre newsletter here. https://thecentre.substack.com/

Cities 1.5 is hosted by David Miller, Managing Director of the C40 Centre and author of the book Solved. It's written and produced by Peggy Whitfield and Jess Schmidt: https://jessdoespodcasting.com/

Our executive producer is Chiara Morfeo.

Edited by Morgane Chambrin: https://www.morganechambrin.com/

Cities 1.5 music is by Lorna Gilfedder: https://origamipodcastservices.com/

Capitalism is an illness: it’s killing our planet, and by extension, us. Economic instability and environmental concerns are symptoms that can only be cured by redefining prosperity in terms of health and wellbeing, so that we can create sustainable, equitable societies. In his new book, The Care Economy, returning guest Tim Jackson dives into historical and systemic reasons behind our current economic challenges and shares personal experiences that highlight the importance of systemic change in healthcare and beyond. He shares insights from his book around the philosophical and practical implications of fostering a balanced, care-oriented economic model - and how it might just save the world.

Image credit: Fernando Manoso-Borgas 

Featured guests:

Tim Jackson, ecological economist, radio dramatist, Director of the Centre for the Understanding of Sustainable Prosperity (CUSP), and author.

Links: 

Prosperity without Growth - Tim Jackson

Physiologist Walter Cannon - National Library of Medicine

Aneurin Bevin, architect of the NHS - BBC

Current epidemic of chronic disease - CDC

Ecological Economics - The International Society for Ecological Economics

The Flexner Report - National Library of Medicine

Cities as Urban Laboratories - Cities 1.5

If you want to learn more about the Journal of City Climate Policy and Economy, please visit our website: https://jccpe.utpjournals.press/

Cities 1.5 is produced by the University of Toronto Press and Cities 1.5 is supported by C40 Cities and the C40 Centre for City Climate Policy and Economy. You can sign up to the Centre newsletter here. https://thecentre.substack.com/

Cities 1.5 is hosted by David Miller, Managing Director of the C40 Centre and author of the book Solved. It's written and produced by Peggy Whitfield and Jess Schmidt: https://jessdoespodcasting.com/

Our executive producer is Chiara Morfeo.

Edited by Morgane Chambrin: https://www.morganechambrin.com/

Cities 1.5 music is by Lorna Gilfedder: https://origamipodcastservices.com/

Cities around the world are on the frontlines of climate disaster. In Lisbon, Portugal, unprecedented flooding has required the construction of significant climate resilience projects like the city's drainage master plan. In the global south, cities like Ahmedabad, India are getting hotter and hotter…and the women who live in this region are disproportionately impacted physically and financially by heat wave events. But as we can see through the shining examples of both these urban centres, by combining mitigation and adaptation actions - like innovative parametric heat insurance projects, and equitable public transportation initiatives - with community informed policies, we can build resilient cities that will be able to withstand the increasing impacts of climate change.

Featured guests:

Carlos Moedas, Mayor of Lisbon

Kathy Baughman McLeod , CEO, Climate Resilience for All 

Links: 

10 of the Oldest Continuously Inhabited Cities in the World - How Stuff Works

Horizon Europe - European Commission

European Research Council

The US brain drain has begun - Politico

Lisbon approved free public transport for young and elderly residents - Mayors of Europe

Lisbon Mayor Wants Companies to Help Fix City’s Housing Shortage - Bloomberg

Lisbon Drainage Master Plan

Lisbon aims to be carbon neutral by 2030 with EU support - LPP

Climate Resilience for All

Heat and gender: Enhancing her resilience to rising temperatures - World Bank

World-First Financial Product Combining Insurance and Cash Payments for

If you want to learn more about the Journal of City Climate Policy and Economy, please visit our website: https://jccpe.utpjournals.press/

Cities 1.5 is produced by the University of Toronto Press and Cities 1.5 is supported by C40 Cities and the C40 Centre for City Climate Policy and Economy. You can sign up to the Centre newsletter here. https://thecentre.substack.com/

Cities 1.5 is hosted by David Miller, Managing Director of the C40 Centre and author of the book Solved. It's written and produced by Peggy Whitfield and Jess Schmidt: https://jessdoespodcasting.com/

Our executive producer is Chiara Morfeo.

Edited by Morgane Chambrin: https://www.morganechambrin.com/

Cities 1.5 music is by Lorna Gilfedder: https://origamipodcastservices.com/

As global temperatures and sea-levels rise, so to does the frequency of climate-driven migration. The search for a safe, healthy, and prosperous place to live has been a feature of humanity since time immemorial...but an increasingly polarized and toxic global discourse sees migrants being increasingly demonized, which makes it hard to have much-needed conversations around the issue. For many migrants of the climate crisis, cities are the end destination, which means that our urban centres need to be prepared for these new realities by adapting infrastructure, services, and policies to create healthy and resilient environments for all residents - old, and new. It’s way past time to open up the conversation.

Image credit: Jody Foster

Featured guests:

Spencer Coyne, Mayor of Princeton, BC, Canada.

Jazmin Burgess, Director, Inclusive Climate Action; Giovanni Pagani, Senior Manager, Climate and Migration; and Claudia Huerta, Senior Manager for City Diplomacy and Campaigns, Climate and Migration.

Links: 

Simon Kofe’s speech to COP26 - New Scientist (Video)

Why cities must prepare for climate migration - C40 Knowledge Hub

The far right is weaponizing climate change to argue against immigration - Vox

Flooded Princeton, B.C., faces days without heat, says mayor - CBC News (Video)

$1.7 billion flood projects still stalled in Abbotsford, Princeton and Merritt - Vancouver Sun

Future urban landscapes: Climate migration projections in cities - C40 Knowledge Hub

C40-MMC Global Mayors Task Force on Climate and Migration - C40

The ‘Climate Migration’ Narrative Is Inaccurate, Harmful, and Pervasiv

If you want to learn more about the Journal of City Climate Policy and Economy, please visit our website: https://jccpe.utpjournals.press/

Cities 1.5 is produced by the University of Toronto Press and Cities 1.5 is supported by C40 Cities and the C40 Centre for City Climate Policy and Economy. You can sign up to the Centre newsletter here. https://thecentre.substack.com/

Cities 1.5 is hosted by David Miller, Managing Director of the C40 Centre and author of the book Solved. It's written and produced by Peggy Whitfield and Jess Schmidt: https://jessdoespodcasting.com/

Our executive producer is Chiara Morfeo.

Edited by Morgane Chambrin: https://www.morganechambrin.com/

Cities 1.5 music is by Lorna Gilfedder: https://origamipodcastservices.com/

As the world enters yet another period of unprecedented political and environmental tumult, it is becoming even more clear that our current economic system based on the primacy of profit over the health and wellbeing of people and planet is failing. Throughout history, cities have always been at the forefront of new ways of thinking, and are urban laboratories to test and pilot new concepts. The same holds true today: the degrowth strand of economics, along with policies that focus on healthy people and environments, are being trialled in some Spanish cities, such as Barcelona and Girona. On the other side of the world, it is becoming more widely accepted that GDP is an outdated and inaccurate measurement of the health and wellbeing of a city or nation, and new tools and indexes are being implemented in cities across Japan. Despite their very different cultural contexts, these cities are thriving. Now, the question is: will nation states follow their lead?

Featured guests: 

Dr Angelos Varvarousis, Author & Research Fellow at the Autonomous University of Barcelona (UAB)

Takehiko Nagumo, Director of the Smart City Institute Japan

Links:

GDP Is the Wrong Tool for Measuring What Matters - Scientific American

This Pioneering Economist Says Our Obsession With Growth Must End - New York Times

'Letter to Nature' by Mayor of Barcelona, Ada Colau - C40 website

Girona City Council, a pioneering administration in exploring degrowth - Nació Impacte

What is a Smart City anyways? - IMD

Japan has a new way to measure city success – happiness - Cities Today

New Zealand – Implementing the Wellbeing Budget - Wellbeing Economy Alliance

Policy Design for a Wellbeing Economy - JCCPE

If you want to learn more about the Journal of City Climate Policy and Economy, please visit our website: https://jccpe.utpjournals.press/

Cities 1.5 is produced by the University of Toronto Press and Cities 1.5 is supported by C40 Cities and the C40 Centre for City Climate Policy and Economy. You can sign up to the Centre newsletter here. https://thecentre.substack.com/

Cities 1.5 is hosted by David Miller, Managing Director of the C40 Centre and author of the book Solved. It's written and produced by Peggy Whitfield and Jess Schmidt: https://jessdoespodcasting.com/

Our executive producer is Chiara Morfeo.

Edited by Morgane Chambrin: https://www.morganechambrin.com/

Cities 1.5 music is by Lorna Gilfedder: https://origamipodcastservices.com/