In the podcast episode featuring Sir Jonathon Porritt, the discussion revolves around the pressing need for climate leadership in a rapidly changing global landscape characterised by a multipolar world order. Porritt emphasises the urgency of addressing climate change, highlighting that the time for action is not in the distant future but rather in the immediate decade ahead. This urgency is underscored by the recognition that governments and institutions often engage in what Porritt terms "institutional denial", where they acknowledge the science of climate change but fail to act on its implications.

Porritt explains that while outright denial of climate science is less common today, particularly outside the United States, there remains a significant reluctance among governments to accept the radical changes needed to combat climate change effectively. This denial manifests in a failure to engage the public meaningfully and to communicate the necessary policy changes across various sectors, including energy, transportation, and agriculture. The challenge lies in overcoming this institutional denial to foster a more proactive approach to climate policy.

A significant portion of the episode focuses on Porritt's work with young activists from the Just Stop Oil movement. He shares insights from his upcoming book, which captures the voices and experiences of these young individuals who are at the forefront of climate activism. Porritt emphasises the importance of intergenerational justice, urging older generations to understand the perspectives of young people who will bear the brunt of climate change impacts. The activists he worked with, many of whom have faced legal repercussions for their actions, embody a sense of urgency and commitment that Porritt finds inspiring.

The episode also touches on the increasing repression of climate activism, particularly in the UK, where new laws have granted authorities unprecedented powers to silence dissent. Porritt notes that this trend is not unique to the UK, as similar crackdowns on climate protest are observed in various countries, including the United States. The international community's awareness of these repressive measures is crucial, as it can help support activists facing legal challenges in their respective countries.

Porritt discusses the limitations of the business sector in driving meaningful change, primarily due to the prevailing focus on shareholder primacy. While he acknowledges that businesses can advocate for better regulations and engage in sustainability efforts, he argues that they are often constrained by their obligations to maximise short-term profits. This reality highlights the need for systemic changes in economic structures and regulations to enable businesses to contribute more effectively to climate solutions.

The conversation also delves into the psychological and socioeconomic factors contributing to climate change denial. Porritt points out that many individuals find it challenging to confront the harsh realities of climate change, leading to avoidance behaviours. He emphasises the importance of creating spaces for open dialogue about the climate crisis, allowing people to engage with the truth and take action. Interestingly, the young activists he has worked with view their civil disobedience as a means to combat despair, finding purpose and resilience through their activism.

In summary, the podcast episode with Sir Jonathon Porritt underscores the critical need for climate leadership in a multipolar world. It highlights the challenges posed by institutional denial, the role of young activists, the repression of dissent, the limitations of the business sector, and the psychological barriers to confronting climate change. As the world grapples with the climate crisis, it is imperative for leaders across all sectors to engage meaningfully, foster collaboration, and prioritise the urgent actions needed to secure a sustainable future for all.

To support Conversations with Stephen Kamugasa please click here.

Timestamps:

Welcome back to Conversations with Stephen Kamugasa. Introduction to the 2025 Leadership Series and today's guest, Sir Jonathon Porritt.

Introduction of Sir Jonathan Porritt, his background, and his contributions to sustainability.

Reference to the 2023 podcast episode "Climate Change, The New Apocalypse."

Discussion on Sir Jonathon's book "Hope in a Decade to Confront the Climate Crisis."

Introduction to Sir Jonathon's upcoming book "Climate Justice" and his work with Just Stop Oil activists.

Discussion on the controversial tactics of Just Stop Oil and Sir Jonathan's engagement with young activists.

Explanation of institutional denial of climate change and strategies to overcome it.

Discussion on the UK's repressive laws against climate activism and international community support.

Overview of global repression against climate activists and the role of the international community.

Introduction to Tim Smedley and his questions about climate scientists' duty to engage in activism and the impact of Just Stop Oil's tactics.

Discussion on the divide among climate scientists regarding activism and the impact of Just Stop Oil's actions.

Introduction to Barbara Williams and her questions about reducing GDP and designing equitable economic algorithms.

Discussion on the challenges of redesigning the global economy for sustainability and equitable wealth distribution.

Introduction to Professor Rupert Read and his questions about the role of business in climate action.

Discussion on the limitations and responsibilities of businesses in promoting sustainability.

Discussion on the Guardian's editorial about the LA fires and the impact of Trump's climate denialism.

Exploration of the psychological and socio-political factors contributing to climate change denial.

Insight into the motivations of young climate activists and their psychological resilience.

Announcement of the new title for Sir Jonathan's book, "Love, Anger, and Betrayal," and its availability.

Conclusion of the podcast and information about the next episode in the leadership series.