What you’ll get in this episode of Energy Thinks

My most important conversations right now are focused on The Problem Solvers—those civic leaders squeezed between the climate ambition of their constituents and energy reality. In this episode, I sit down with Matt Baker, Commissioner at the California Public Utilities Commission, to talk about what Problem Solver leadership looks like on the front lines of climate ambition: California.

In few places have The Myth of an Easy Energy Transition faced The Moment more clearly than in California. This conversation is important to you for a few reasons:

* Matt’s the best kind of Problem Solver—a smart, devoted, pragmatic, experienced climate hawk willing to name trade-offs and argue for workable solutions.

* He’s in the middle of the action. He sits at the center of some of the hardest questions in energy right now: what to build, how fast to build it, and who can afford the bill.

* He thinks differently than we do. And (as you’ll hear) his view of the world—what matters, what is possible, what is urgent—is very different from yours. You need that diversity of thought.

How does Matt address the yawning gap between the climate expectations of his constituencies and the on-the-ground pressures around cost and reliability? “I’m thinking of that quip from Mike Tyson’s,” he told me, “which is ‘All plans are great until you get punched in the face.’”

For a long time, he added, regulators like him operated under an implicit plan for the energy transition: First drive efficiency, then decarbonize power sources, then electrify everything else. But now that punch Tyson was talking about has arrived in California, in the form of rising costs, reliability stressors, and wildfire liabilities.

What makes Baker worth hearing is his unflinching commitment to the centrality and urgency of climate ambition to the state’s goals and his mandate. He argues that reliability and affordability are the necessary conditions for climate action.

You need to understand this point of view.

Why Matt Baker?

I met Matt when I was head of the Colorado Oil & Gas Association and he was a Colorado public utilities commissioner. He’s someone I’ve long known to be both a passionate climate hawk and a deeply pragmatic thinker.

Matt brings a perspective we don’t hear enough from: what it looks like to sit at the center of the regulatory beast, where every decision is a trade-off—and getting it wrong has real consequences for your neighbors. In his case, 39 million of them.

Some of Matt’s insights:

On climate ambition versus reality: “It’s super important as an energy regulator to recognize that if we can’t provide safe, reliable, and affordable energy services, then we will not be able to meet those climate goals. That prime directive—particularly reliability and affordability—has to go hand in hand if we’re going to meet [climate] goals.”

On climate progress: “We have to get used to living in difficult worlds and making trade-offs—but still moving the ball as far as we can every time we get it.”

The quiet part was said out loud: “I continue to believe natural gas is a critical fuel, and that California really needs to be able to think about how do we get clean firm [power]. And until we have clean firm [power sources] that are economical, we’re going to rely on natural gas.”

On depolarizing energy and climate: “This is not a religious war. ... This is not a crusade on either side. My goal is to make energy boring again! Let’s talk about cost allocation. Let’s talk about resource planning.”

Bonus content!

More about Matt Baker: Matt Baker is a commissioner at the California Public Utilities Commission, appointed by Governor Gavin Newsom in 2024. He brings decades of experience in energy and climate policy, including serving as director of the CPUC’s Public Advocates Office and deputy secretary of energy at the California Natural Resources Agency. Previously, he was a commissioner at the Colorado Public Utilities Commission and a program officer at the William and Flora Hewlett Foundation. Baker began his career in public interest advocacy and holds a BA in history from Pennsylvania State University.

Watch the episode on YouTube or listen to the podcast on Substack to hear Josh and me discuss The Myth and The Moment.

Read Jennifer Pahlka’s Recoding America: Why Government Is Failing in the Digital Age and How We Can Do Better.

CPUC’s report to the California Earthquake Authority: Senate Bill 254 Information and Recommendations.

Order your copy of The Myth and The Moment: From Polarization to Progress in the New Energy Landscape.

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To rolling with the punches,Tisha

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