How much does your own AI use matter? With all the warnings about AI’s adverse impact on the environment, it can be tough to understand what that means at the individual level. In this episode, Morgan breaks down the hidden costs of generative AI into something more relatable: microwave time. She’s joined by MIT Technology Review reporters Casey Crownhart and James O’Donnell, who spent months investigating how much energy and water AI systems actually use.

Together, they unpack how AI models are trained and which ones are more resource-intensive, what effect the expansion of AI data centers has on local energy grids and just how much electricity it takes when we ask AI to generate text, images and videos.

Guests:

Casey Crownhart, senior climate reporter at MIT Technology Review

James O'Donnell, senior AI reporter at MIT Technology Review

Further Reading:

We did the math on AI’s energy footprint. Here’s the story you haven’t heard. — Casey Crownhart and James O’Donnell, MIT Technology Review

 AI Energy Score v2: Refreshed Leaderboard, now with Reasoning 🧠 — 

Sasha Luccioni and Boris Gamazaychikov, Hugging Face

Stop worrying about your AI footprint. Look at the big picture instead. — Casey Crownhart, MIT Technology Review 

Google says a typical AI text prompt only uses 5 drops of water — experts say that’s misleading — Justine Calma, The Verge

Read the Transcript here

Want to give us feedback on the show? Shoot us an email at [email protected]

Follow us on ⁠Instagram⁠ and ⁠TikTok⁠

Credits: Close All Tabs is hosted by Morgan Sung. Our team includes producer Maya Cueva, editor Chris Hambrick and senior editor Chris Egusa who also composed our theme song and credits music. Additional music from APM. Audio engineering by Brendan Willard. Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad. Jen Chien is our Director of Podcasts. Katie Sprenger is our Podcast Operations Manager. Ethan Toven-Lindsey is our Editor in Chief.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

How easy is it to find someone from a single video posted online? To find out, Morgan put her own privacy to the test. She asked TikTok creator JoseMonkey, who’s famous for geolocating people who send him videos asking to be found, to track her down. JoseMonkey started as a geolocation hobbyist who turned to creating videos to bring attention to common mistakes people make when posting online. 

In this episode, Morgan breaks down why personal operational security matters and what digital hygiene actually looks like in practice. JoseMonkey walks through how he finds people using the smallest scraps of information, and the steps you can take to make sure you aren’t exposing too much in your posts. And Eva Galperin, cybersecurity director of Electronic Frontier Foundation, explains how to use a process called “threat modeling” to protect your online privacy in a way that’s practical rather than paranoid.

Guests:

Jose Monkey, Content Creator and Online Privacy Advocate

Eva Galperin, Director of Cybersecurity at the Electronic Frontier Foundation

Further Reading/Listening:

We partnered with KQED’s audience news team on a companion guide that breaks down online privacy in a clear, shareable format. You can find it, along with other explainers and guides, on KQED’s explainers page.

⁠Have LLMs Finally Mastered Geolocation? — Foeke Postma and Nathan Patin, Bellingcat
Surveillance Self-Defense  — The Electronic Frontier Foundation

How micro-online posting can be a macro privacy risk — JoseMonkey, TedX Talks

Read the transcript ⁠here⁠

Want to give us feedback on the show? Shoot us an email at ⁠[email protected]⁠

Follow us on⁠ ⁠Instagram⁠⁠ and⁠ ⁠TikTok⁠⁠

Credits:

Close All Tabs is hosted by Morgan Sung. Our team includes producer Maya Cueva, editor Chris Hambrick and senior editor Chris Egusa who also composed our theme song and credits music. Additional music from APM. Audio engineering by Brendan Willard. Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad. Jen Chien is our Director of Podcasts. Katie Sprenger is our Podcast Operations Manager. Ethan Toven-Lindsey is our Editor in Chief.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) officer Jonathan Ross shot and killed Renee Good in Minneapolis, it became an instant flashpoint in the ongoing escalation of federal law enforcement violence. It also put a spotlight on the U.S. government’s efforts to prevent people from documenting federal agents in public.

In this episode, we dig into a simple but important question: do you have the right to record ICE? Criminal justice reporter C.J. Ciaramella explains how the Trump administration is working to create a chilling effect around filming law enforcement, why legal challenges are intensifying, and how courts are increasingly pushing back.

Guests:

C.J. Ciaramella, Criminal Justice Reporter at Reason

Further Reading/Listening:

ICE officer fatally shoots driver through car window in Minneapolis — Max Nesterak, Madison McVan and Alyssa Chen, The Minnesota Reformer 

The Trump administration says it's illegal to record videos of ICE. Here's what the law says. — C.J. Ciaramella, Reason 

DHS says recording or following law enforcement 'sure sounds like obstruction of justice' —  C.J. Ciaramella, Reason  

Recording the Police: Tips for Safety and Awareness — Carly Severn and Mina Kim, KQED

DHS Claims Videotaping ICE Raids Is ‘Violence’ — Matthew Cunningham-Cook, The American Prospect

ICE detains U.S. citizen for 7 hours after she photographed agents in Oregon — Yesenia Amaro, The Oregonian 

Dozens of felony cases crumble in DOJ push to punish protesters — Michael Biesecker, Jamie Ding, Christine Fernando, Claire Rush, and Ryan J. Foley, The Associated Press 

What Happens When Federal Officers Use Force — Miranda Jeyaretnam, TIME 

California is banning masks for federal agents. Here’s why it could lose in court —  Nigel Duara, CalMatters

Read the transcript here

Want to give us feedback on the show? Shoot us an email at [email protected]

Follow us on ⁠Instagram⁠ and ⁠TikTok⁠

Credits:

Close All Tabs is hosted by Morgan Sung. Our team includes producer Maya Cueva, editor Chris Hambrick and senior editor Chris Egusa, who also composed our theme song and credits music. Additional music from APM. Audio engineering by Brendan Willard. Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad. Jen Chien is our Director of Podcasts. Katie Sprenger is our Podcast Operations Manager. Ethan Toven-Lindsey is our Editor in Chief.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In a holiday installment of Save or Scroll, Morgan and the Close All Tabs team get together to talk over the stories they can’t stop thinking about. From OpenAI’s concerning new job posting, to a major RAM shortage, AI artists on the come up, and an antidote to the Manosphere, they’ve got a lot to chew on.

Save or Scroll is our series where we team up with guests for a rapid-fire roundup of internet trends that are filling our feeds right now. At the end of each segment, they’ll decide: is the post just for the group chat, or should we save it for a future episode?

Guests:

Morgan Sung, Host of Close All Tabs

Chris Egusa, Senior Editor of Close All Tabs

Maya Cueva, Producer of Close All Tabs

Chris Hambrick, Editor of Close All Tabs

Further Reading/Listening:

Sam Altman is hiring someone to worry about the dangers of AI — Terrence O'Brien, The Verge

Why OpenAI's $555,000 Head of Preparedness Role May Be Hard to Fill — Sarah E. Needleman, Business Insider

Memory loss: As AI gobbles up chips, prices for devices may rise — John Ruwitch, NPR

Why is RAM so expensive right now? It's way more complicated than you think — Wayne Williams, TechRadar

AI Singer Xania Monet Just Charted On Billboard, Signed $3 Million Deal. Is This The Future Of Music? — Doug Melville, Forbes

How Many AI Artists Have Debuted on Billboard’s Charts? — Xander Zellner, Billboard

The ‘Manosphere’? It’s Planet Earth. — Joseph Bernstein, The New York Times

“2024 self interviewing my 2025 self” — @seanjaye1988, Instagram Reel

Read the transcript here

Want to give us feedback on the show? Shoot us an email at [email protected]

Follow us on ⁠Instagram⁠ and ⁠TikTok⁠

Credits:

Close All Tabs is hosted by Morgan Sung. Our team includes producer Maya Cueva, editor Chris Hambrick and senior editor Chris Egusa, who also composed our theme song and credits music. Additional music from APM. Audio engineering by Brendan Willard. Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad. Jen Chien is our Director of Podcasts. Katie Sprenger is our Podcast Operations Manager. Ethan Toven-Lindsey is our Editor in Chief.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When KitKat, a beloved bodega cat, was killed by a Waymo in San Francisco in late October of this year, the incident quickly went viral. It ignited grief and outrage. It also renewed scrutiny of autonomous vehicles. But in a city where hundreds of animals are hit by vehicles each year, why did this incident — and this particular cat — hit such a nerve?

We hear from Oscar Palma, the first reporter on the scene, about what unfolded the night KitKat was killed. Then, Mission Local managing editor Joe Eskenazi and KQED reporter Sydney Johnson explore the limits of autonomous vehicles and why one cat’s death resonated so deeply in a rapidly gentrifying San Francisco.

Guests:

Sydney Johnson, reporter at KQED

Oscar Palma, reporter at Mission Local

Joe Eskenazi, managing editor at Mission Local

Further Reading/ Listening:

KitKat, liquor store mascot and ‘16th St. ambassador,’ killed — allegedly by Waymo — Oscar Palma, Mission Local 

San Francisco Supervisor Calls for Robotaxi Reform After Waymo Kills Neighborhood Cat — Sydney Johnson, KQED

How Kit Kat Was Killed: Video Shows What a Waymo Couldn’t See — Heather Knight, The New York Times 

Driverless car startup Cruise's no good, terrible year — Dara Kerr, NPR

Cruise admits lying to feds about dragging woman in San Francisco — Kevin Truong, The San Francisco Standard

Waymo hits dog in S.F. weeks after killing Mission bodega cat — Kelly Waldron, Mission Local

Dog hit by Waymo in SF put down by family after suffering 'severe pelvic trauma' — Alex Baker, KRON4

The self-driving taxi revolution begins at last — The Economist 

Read the transcript here

Email: ⁠[email protected]⁠

Follow us on ⁠Instagram⁠ and ⁠TikTok

Credits:

Close All Tabs is hosted by Morgan Sung. This episode was produced by Maya Cueva and edited by Chris Egusa. Our team includes producer Maya Cueva, editor Chris Hambrick and senior editor Chris Egusa, who also composed our theme song and credits music. Additional music from APM. Audio engineering by Brendan Willard. Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad. Jen Chien is our Director of Podcasts. Katie Sprenger is our Podcast Operations Manager. Ethan Toven-Lindsey is our Editor in Chief.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On December 4, 2024, United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson was shot and killed outside a Midtown New York hotel. The subsequent arrest of 26-year-old Luigi Mangione set off a frenzy far beyond a typical breaking news story. Almost immediately, supporters emerged, detractors pushed back and then something stranger took hold: a devoted fandom that treated Mangione not just as a suspect, but as a symbol.

One year later, we look at how a single crime became a cultural flashpoint and how narratives built around Magione are shaping public perception. Investigative journalist Melkorka Licea unpacks the different factions of Mangione’s online supporters. Then, legal expert Daniel Medwed helps Morgan understand the challenges of selecting a fair jury in an era when high-profile cases unfold in real time across millions of screens.

Guests:

Melkorka Licea, investigative journalist 

Daniel Medwed, professor of law at Northeastern University

Further Reading/Listening:

Inside the Contentious World of Luigi Mangione Supporters — 

Melkorka Licea, WIRED

Luigi Mangione Hearing Hits on 3D Gun, Never-Before-Heard 911 Call, Comparisons to the Unabomber — Lorena O’Neil, Rolling Stone

Slain UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson's tenure was marked by rocketing profits—and accusations of insider trading and coverage denial  — Sasha Rogelberg, Fortune

Luigi is Currently Reading: What Can We Really Learn About the UHC CEO’s Alleged Killer Based on the Books He’s Read? — James Folta, Literary Hub

Luigi Mangione’s ‘Loafers,’ ‘Outfit’ and ‘Ankles’ Go Viral as His Unexpected Fashion Influence Persists After Latest Court Appearance — Renan Botelho, WWD

Meet the ‘Cougars for Luigi Mangione’ — and new fans of the alleged killer — Josie Ensor, The Times

What is jury nullification and what does it mean for Luigi Mangione’s defense? — Eric Levenson, CNN

Grand jury declines to indict the 88-year-old white woman whose false accusations led to Emmett Till's death in 1955 — Haven Orecchio-Egresitz, Business Insider

Read the transcript here

Email: [email protected]

Follow us on Instagram and TikTok

Credits:

Close All Tabs is hosted by Morgan Sung. This episode was produced by Chris Egusa and edited by Jen Chien. Our team includes producer Maya Cueva, editor Chris Hambrick and senior editor Chris Egusa who also composed our theme song and credits music. Additional music from APM. Audio engineering by Brendan Willard. Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad. Jen Chien is our Director of Podcasts. Katie Sprenger is our Podcast Operations Manager. Ethan Toven-Lindsey is our Editor in Chief.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Editor’s note: We updated one line to add context about a character in one of the Purple Moon games, which may affect how the character is understood.

Thirty years ago, video games were predominantly marketed to boys. Nintendo and Sega ran TV ads featuring boys proclaiming how “awesome” and “powerful” the latest system was. And the biggest computer games tended to revolve around male-coded activities like shooting or combat. But in the late ‘90s, a small indie game studio called Purple Moon set out to change that — creating story-rich, emotionally complex games designed to welcome girls into the world of computers.

In this episode, Close All Tabs producer Maya Cueva looks back on her own childhood experience with Purple Moon and talks with founder Brenda Laurel about the company’s legacy, its impact on girls in tech, and how it all came to an abrupt end.

Guest:

Brenda Laurel, interactive games designer, creator and founder of Purple Moon

Further Reading:

The ‘Girl Games’ of the ’90s Were Fun and Feminist — Drew Dakessian, WIRED 

Conscious UX: Leading Human-Centered Design in the Age of AI: Designing the Future of Artificial Intelligence with Compassion, Inclusion, and Openness — Rikki Teeters, Don Norman, Brenda Laurel 

Brenda Laurel — Christopher Weaver, Smithsonian Institution, Lemelson Center for The Study of Invention and Innovation 

Trailblazing Women in Video Gaming: Meet the Pioneers Who Shaped Design History — D.S. Cohen, Lifewire

Read the transcript here

Want to give us feedback on the series? Shoot us an email at [email protected]

You can also follow us on Instagram

Credits:

Close All Tabs is hosted by Morgan Sung. This episode was reported and produced by Maya Cueva and edited by Chris Hambrick and Chris Egusa. Original music, including our theme song, by Chris Egusa. Additional music from APM. Audio engineering by Brendan Willard. Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad. Jen Chien is our Director of Podcasts. Katie Sprenger is our Podcast Operations Manager. Ethan Toven-Lindsey is our Editor in Chief.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The Ukraine-Russia war has been called the most technologically advanced war in history. Ukrainian citizens receive notifications about incoming missile and drone attacks through apps on their phones; remote-controlled drones swarm the front lines; and volunteer cyberwarfare units target Russian digital infrastructure. It’s all part of what some have dubbed Ukraine’s “Geeks of War.”

In this episode, investigative reporter Erica Hellerstein takes us to the digital front line. On a recent trip to Ukraine, she met a husband-and-wife duo running a DIY nonprofit that supplies tech to defense forces, toured the recently-bombed headquarters of one of the country’s biggest tech companies, and explored how a swarm of online accounts with Shiba Inu avatars is countering Russian propaganda.

Throughout, she looks at how Ukraine’s culture of tech innovation — and its surprising ties to Silicon Valley — are fueling the country’s resistance through an army of engineers, coders, hackers, and tinkerers.

Guest:

Erica Hellerstein, investigative journalist and feature writer

Further Reading/Listening:

Dexter Filkins on Drones and the Future of Warfare⁠ — Adam Howard, WNYC

⁠Lessons From the World’s First Full-Scale Cyberwar⁠ — David Kirichenko, Kyiv Post

⁠Russia Takes Its Ukraine Information War Into Video Games⁠ — Steven Lee Myers and Kellen Browning, The New York Times

⁠Why Ukraine remains the world's most innovative war machine⁠ — Ibrahim Naber, Politico

⁠A Thousand Snipers in the Sky: The New War in Ukraine⁠ — Marc Santora, Lara Jakes, Andrew E. Kramer, Marco Hernandez and Liubov Sholudko, The New York Times

Read the transcript here

Want to give us feedback on the series? Shoot us an email at [email protected]

You can also follow us on Instagram

Credits:

Close All Tabs is hosted by Morgan Sung. This episode was reported by Erica Hellerstein. It was produced by Maya Cueva and edited by Chris Egusa and Jen Chien. Chris Hambrick is our editor. Original music, including our theme song, by Chris Egusa. Additional music from APM. Audio engineering by Brendan Willard. Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad. Jen Chien is our Director of Podcasts. Katie Sprenger is our Podcast Operations Manager. Ethan Toven-Lindsey is our Editor in Chief.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When Ubisoft, publisher of the sprawling open-world racing game The Crew shut down the game’s servers, cutting off access to even its single-player mode, fans were outraged. The moment tapped into their decades of frustration with the gaming industry’s push toward online-only content — and what some now call the growing epidemic of “game death.” In this episode, host Morgan Sung is joined by Ross Scott, a filmmaker and YouTube creator who launched the “Stop Killing Games” campaign. They’ll cover the push for new regulations requiring publishers to plan for the end of their games’ lifespans. Then, Morgan talks with gaming journalist Nicole Carpenter about the passionate community that formed around the mobile game Kim Kardashian: Hollywood, and how gamers grieve the loss of their favorite virtual worlds.

Guests:

Ross Scott, filmmaker, creator, and founder of the Stop Killing Games movement

Nicole Carpenter, freelance reporter

Further reading/listening:

With Anthem’s Impending Server Shutdown, I’m Trying It For The First Time — Nicole Carpenter, Aftermath

Kim Kardashian: Hollywood has an unlikely, lasting place in gaming history — Nicole Carpenter, Polygon 

'Stop Killing Games' Campaign Closes in on Getting EU Regulators to Intervene — Jon Martindale, PC Mag

‘Stop Killing Games’: Demands for game ownership must also include workers’ rights — Louis-Etienne Dubois and Miikka J. Lehtonen, The Conversation

The largest campaign ever to stop publishers destroying games — Ross Scott, Accursed Farms (YouTube)  

Read the transcript here

Want to give us feedback on the series? Shoot us an email at [email protected]

You can also follow us on Instagram

Credits:

This episode was reported and hosted by Morgan Sung and produced by Francesca Fenzi. Our team includes producer Maya Cueva, editor Chris Hambrick and senior editor Chris Egusa. Jen Chien is KQED’s Director of Podcasts, and also helps edit the show. Original music, including our theme song, by Chris Egusa. Additional music from APM. Audio engineering by Brendan Willard. Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad. Katie Sprenger is our Podcast Operations Manager. Ethan Toven-Lindsey is our Editor in Chief.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When wildfire engulfed much of Los Angeles earlier this year, artist and game designer Alice Bucknell found themselves stuck inside, replaying “Firewatch,” a quiet game about exploring the wilderness in anticipation of an impending wildfire. It helped them process emotions that felt too overwhelming in real life. “Firewatch,” and other games like it that focus on exploration rather than fighting or competing, are known as walking simulators. Throughout their career, Alice has used this approach to craft exploratory games that invite players to stretch their imagination and emotional capacity.

In this episode, Morgan talks with Alice about how walking simulators and other virtual worlds can reframe our understanding of failure, climate grief, and our connection to one another. From simulating life as a moth to wandering through abandoned metaverses like Second Life, they explore how digital spaces can become sites of mourning, reflection, and hope.

Guests:

Alice Bucknell, artist, writer, and game designer

Further reading/listening:

The video game that makes the climate apocalypse look good — Erin X. Wong, High Country News

Second Life’s loyal users embrace its decaying software and no-fun imperfections — Alice Bucknell, Document Journal

Playing with Feelings: Video Games and Affect — Aubrey Anable, University of Minnesota Press

Read the transcript here

Want to give us feedback on the series? Shoot us an email at [email protected]

You can also follow us on Instagram

Credits:

This episode was reported and hosted by Morgan Sung and produced by Francesca Fenzi. Our team includes producer Maya Cueva, editor Chris Hambrick and senior editor Chris Egusa. Jen Chien is KQED’s Director of Podcasts, and also helps edit the show. Original music, including our theme song, by Chris Egusa. Additional music from APM. Audio engineering by Brendan Willard. Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad. Katie Sprenger is our Podcast Operations Manager. Ethan Toven-Lindsey is our Editor in Chief.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices