CMA Connect

On the mic with John in this episode is Bruce Powell, Co-founder and Managing Partner at IQ PARTNERS, an Executive Search & Recruitment firm.

"We saw a VP of Marketing hired last week to a European company. He's doing all of his work and his team management remotely from Toronto, Canada. That's a huge opportunity for Canadian marketers. The flip side is that you're now competing with everybody in the world." - Bruce Powell

Here's some of what they cover:

1. At any time, a third of people are actively considering whether they're in the right role (4:20)

The numbers have jumped to 50% in the pandemic, which feels like a large number, but it may not be on a relative basis, says Bruce. "Most of us are working remotely, and despite being busier, you'd still have a lot more time to reflect on where you're at, and whether you've advanced as far as you want to in your career. It increases people's willingness to consider whether they're ready for a change."

2. The current pulse on 'work from home' (6:17)

While marketers may have had some flexibility in the past, nobody could have imagined entire teams working from home full-time and being productive. The pandemic has required changes in how people operate. "It's been a wholesale surprise that this actually works." Companies have now become increasingly flexible.

3. Reflecting on hiring in the marketing industry in comparison to others (7:41)

"Our clients have been consistently hiring across the board, in accounting, sales, and technology, and our business has been consistent. Unfortunately, our marketing recruitment activity is down probably 40%. And that is, I think, a reflection of marketing still (being viewed as) a cost center."

4. Into the mind of the marketing professional (10:14)

Fear of the unknown is prevalent. More people are reflecting on their careers and think that they would like to make a change. And yet when it comes down to it, there is fear in making that change.

5. Key things employers should bear in mind as they look to fill critical roles (14:04)

"I think it's important to remember that 'emotion buys and logic justifies'. No matter how logical the offer may be, or how much it makes sense for this person as the next step in their career to take this offer, you need to invest a little bit more these days in getting them comfortable and emotionally engaged with the company. The second thing is (to think of it) like buying a house in a competitive market. An offer needs to be presented with as few conditions as possible. If you put out an offer, and it's conditional on references, it's going to make the person more anxious. Address those references up front, and then come up with an offer. It will vastly increase your likelihood of success."

To hear more 🎧 tune in to CMA Connect🎧.

Stay connected and receive the latest marketing news and industry trends by visiting thecma.ca and signing up for a myCMA account.

Learn more about Bruce and IQ Partners here

"Do you have people around you that are different from you? Maybe you just go and just listen (to them) for a while. Go and read books. Maybe you just go and discover experiences that are different from yours. It's super uncomfortable and super awkward. But I think those awkward, uncomfortable conversations are totally worth it." - Darian Kovacs

Joining John this week is Darian Kovacs from the best coast, i.e. the West Coast of Canada! Darian is an accomplished Indigenous business leader, founding partner of Jelly Marketing, and an accomplished podcast host of 'Marketing News Canada'.

Here's some of what they discuss:

1. Being thoughtful with a combination of planning, and being able to adapt to the world around you - Darian's own story (1:47)

Darian went to university to study Child and Youth Care and Art education, thinking he was going into art and play therapy. Through his work in the world of youth, he discovered that much of the work is marketing. Anyone who is in fundraising knows that goes back to the fascinating world of marketing, conversion, and PR. Eventually I realized I wanted to work in an organization that did work in the charity sector but also did work in the corporate sector. So I started Jelly."

2. The connection between thrifty budgets, collaborations, and good marketing (6:44)

"I found the charity sector, with its thrifty budgets, was able to really lean on corporate ideas, because it was able to say, 'Hey, here's what you can do with a really small budget. And here's how you can be a little more feisty, a little more grassroots!' And corporations that have larger budgets could experiment and try things with them."

3. Bringing change to a white-centric industry (13:13)

When "Marketing News Canada" - the podcast and publication - began, Darian's team created a Marketing Hall of Fame Award. In their research into different jury members in awards across North America who could be potential jury members for them, they realized that "almost 90% of jury members were white males. The other 10% were white females. For me, it was a real shock because I belong to this industry. And I love it. I just didn't realize how white-centric it was. It was a wake up call for me.

4. Starting to address the lack of Indigineous peoples in the marketing workplace (16:15)

Why don't we have more Indigenous peoples in marketing? Why don't we have as many BIPOC marketers? The issue is with inclusion. Darian talks of how he watched when Sephora created an ad with Indigenous peoples. "It was written by Indigenous people, shot by Indigenous people. But then the sad response was that they forgot one sect of Indigenous people, which is Afro-Indigenous people, and they received negative feedback. But I still think that's a good example. Sephora was trying, and the good thing is that they're one of the only organizations in Canada that included Indigenous people in their advertising, pre-reading, and pre-awareness this year. The lesson here? If you're going to have a BIPOC Committee make sure you include people from every one of those acronyms."

5. How Darian measures the success of Jelly's purpose in bringing more Indigenous peoples to the workplace

"Number one, are they hired, and by what salary radar are they hired? Number two, do we have an amazing group of hundreds of stakeholders that actually review, provide constructive criticism, to our syllabi, our modules? It has to be really solid stuff that brands want; that agencies want. And third, a long term measurement play, are we seeing CMOs that are from this program? Are we seeing directors and managers from this program? Are they getting to that place?"

To hear more 🎧 tune in to CMA Connect🎧.

Stay connected and receive the latest marketing news and industry trends by visiting thecma.ca and signing up for a myCMA account.

In part two of this episode arc on data-driven marketing, guest host Jeff Greenspoon - President of Global Solutions, CEO of Canada for Dentsu International and a member of the Board of Directors here at the Canadian Marketing Association is joined by Charlie Grinnell - CEO, Right Metric.

If you haven't heard the first part, listen to episode 16 first.

Here's some of what they discuss in this episode.

1. The art side of the marketing equation comes out of the shadows (0:46)

"We've come to a tech agnostic status for a lot of brands, where if you look at the platforms, whether they be Adobe, Salesforce or Amazon, every brand has won, and they're using it to the best of their abilities from a technology perspective, the differentiator and where likely we've stopped investing as much as we should be is in creativity. Ideas are what drive resonance and salience. Oftentimes, we think about data fueling channel decisions and media decisions and targeting, but not enough about the creative that we need to build and the production of that creative that needs to happen." - Jeff Greenspoon

2. It's expensive to create content. Use data to validate your decision-making (4:20)

"What's so cool about the world that we're in now is there's so much data being churned out on the back-end of content that you can look at, whether that's engagement rate, watch time, video views, shares. There's such an opportunity to use that data to build into our understanding of what's working and what's not." - Charlie Grinnell

3. The importance of brand purpose (7:21)

"Lush Fresh Made Cosmetics announced in November of 2021 that they were quitting Facebook, Instagram, Tik Tok and Snapchat. This was their second time. In 2019, they came off some platforms, then COVID hit, reassessing all their priorities. Lush went back. Now they have come back to the issue. They will keep the social media handles, but will not actively publish on Facebook, Instagram, Tik Tok or Snapchat. "How much is that going to cost them? That's no small thing. Some say about 10 million in the short term, which is no small chunk of change. But then when you look at it, it was actually less than 1% of their total sales. I think it's like a great case study for all of us to be watching." - Charlie Grinnell

4. Spend time building trust (17:23)

"Relationship is communication - whether it's with your spouse, your friends. The best relationships have a deep level of trust pretty quickly. When I was on the brand side, anytime we worked with an agency, I would go out of my way to spend a disproportionate amount of time upfront so that they had everything and more than they needed. I wanted to make sure that I was over communicating, because I wanted to give them all the context and nuance in my brain." - Charlie Grinnell

5. Predicting trends - TikTok, the audio revolution, and more (19:39)

"TikTok. It's the wild west there. And, I think the brands that are going to be bold on that platform and test things will see success. You might fail, but even if you fail, you'll learn. As we head into 2022, TikTok has already taken over the entertainment side, I think they're really going to focus on that commerce side. Running tests there and getting your feet wet on that platform is how I'd be thinking about it." - Charlie Grinnell

To hear more 🎧 tune in to CMA Connect🎧.

Stay connected and receive the latest marketing news and industry trends by visiting thecma.ca and signing up for a myCMA account.

Learn more about Charlie and RightMetric here

We have our first guest host at the CMA Connect podcast!

Jeff Greenspoon is President of Global Solutions, CEO of Canada for Dentsu International and a member of the Board of Directors here at the Canadian Marketing Association.

In part one of this short episode arc on data-driven marketing, he's joined by guest Charlie Grinnell - CEO, Right Metric to discuss how to overcome digital growth challenges in today's climate and beyond.

They dig deep into our obsession with data-driven marketing and define the difference between the good and the great. "Over the next 5-10 years, we're going to see this kind of convergence of internal and external data coming together to give marketers a more holistic picture of what's actually going on, which is going to arm them to make the right decision for their business", says Charlie

Here's some of what they discuss:

1. How to separate what's good from what's great (4:20)

What is nice to have versus the things that really make an impact on business today? What we can learn from big data on how people view the world and interact with it, and use that to challenge some of our societal biases. "Maybe you thought you had a good idea of how things work. But what works today isn't necessarily going to translate to a different industry or a different time."

2. The obsession with data driven marketing (7:11)

Data allows us to quantify human behavior but data is nothing without data-backed insight. Insight is the area that frontier marketers lean into. "I think a lot of marketers have focused on the value of data, and less on the value of data-backed insight. That needs to be top of mind for all marketers. To get you to that actionable insight or recommendation that makes sense through the business lens."

3. Niching down and targeting micro audiences (13:13)

With new software updates being implemented yearly with updates like the removal of cookies with iOS 14.5., marketers are beginning to lose visibility. Rather than broadening our targets, marketers are adapting and niching down by targeting specific communities, being more thoughtful, tailored, and strategic.

4. Brand building vs performance marketing. Are they the same now? (15:53)

Jeff and Charlie agree that the short answer is there is a difference between the two, but they do need to be interlinked together. "I think marketing is art for the sake of commerce, commerce being the keyword. Taking that art and science and building it together, that's where we see the best marketing campaigns. Perhaps the best known example that comes to mind is Spotify's year-end review. Everyone loves when that comes out. It's taking the science side of marketing data, and merging art into it. And every year, it blows up with people sharing. I think that's brilliant."

5. Critical ammunition for marketers (20:56)

Why we have to remember that "every experience customers have is a brand experience - whether it's there to build preference, there to build salience, or there to build a commerce interaction and make a sale", says Jeff.

Charlie speaks of the importance of breaking down silos and recounts his experience leading social media at an enterprise. "I was joined at the hip with our head of eCommerce marketing, because she was overseeing email. Previously that wasn't a thing. I wanted to know everything about the behavior on our emails, because chances are it's the same person who's on Instagram or Pinterest with us. It's about taking those insights and deploying them more holistically. It's critical ammunition for marketers to be able to plan activities that are going to give their brand a chance to be successful."

To hear more 🎧 tune in to CMA Connect🎧.

Stay connected and receive the latest marketing news and industry trends by visiting thecma.ca and signing up for a myCMA account.

Learn more about Charlie and RightMetric here

Usually the 'bane of the marketers' existence, procurement plays a key role in a pandemic environment, particularly in facilitating a healthy agency-client relationship. In this episode, John Wiltshire speaks to Patricia McGregor, Managing Director of Firm Decisions - the largest global specialist in marketing contract compliance. Patricia shares findings from their recent research in the area.

Here's some of what they discuss:

1. A clear redefinition of procurement (1:55)

Procurement has a very specific role as the conduit between finance and the marketing team. Their primary role is to build and negotiate the commercial relationship between a client and their marketing agency. They should be at the table when negotiations are underway around fees and scope.

2. The non-anecdotal answer to 'what is everyone else doing?' (9:07)

How are businesses reacting to nearly two years in a pandemic? How are agencies responding to discussions around fees and reduced spends? Firm decisions commissioned a study of 100 top marketing and PR procurement executives in North America with a combined remit of $27 billion annually. Via in-depth conversations, these leaders break down what they were doing, and where they are going next as a result of COVID.

3. Leaders are reconsidering how they use marketing partners (11:18)

With the focus firmly on digital, leaders are coming out of a rapid shift in consumer behaviours navigating the need for eCommerce and better targeting. This leads to the question "With our current agency relationships, do we have the right fit?" This can sometimes mean more specialized partners and a reduction of any overlap.

4. Research-backed advice for agencies looking to keep relationships with clients over the long term (18:09)

Patricia says "one key to stability is consistency in (your) team so that they understand (the client) business. (You may) also be challenged by the other agencies that are facing change, who may potentially be poaching those resources. Just retaining the people who can understand your business and deliver on your goals is going to be a real challenge. So the talent gap is something we (should be) really watching."

5. Warning signs for agencies in this environment (19:12)

"There is a fairly strong subset of clients looking for change. It may just be a reassessment, but there is also a thread of 'review and pitch'. Our research (shows) that this was anticipated within six to 12 months, which we're already seeing happening. There is a real pressure among agencies to compete for resources, to compete for the best talent and to retain that talent."

To hear more about the specifics of this research, and how to apply it in your agency-client relationships 🎧 tune in to CMA Connect🎧.

Stay connected and receive the latest marketing news and industry trends by visiting thecma.ca and signing up for a myCMA account.

Most Canadians are familiar with the Tim Hortons brand. It's been around since 1964, and quite consistent with what it stands for. Tim's is about Canadian communities; their restaurants are local meeting hubs. Since the pandemic, that has evolved to people accessing the brand differently - more drive-thru, and online ordering. In this week's episode, John Wiltshire is joined by Hope Bagozzi, Chief Marketing Officer of Tim Hortons to talk about what's changed, what's evolved, and what legacy is being carried on.

Here's some of what they discuss:

1. The moment of truth for all brands (4:48)The proof is in the pudding (or coffee!). While methods of delivery may have changed over the years from sitting down in the restaurant itself for a coffee, to picking it up at a window, the moment of truth for Tims is in "getting the perfect cup of coffee every time", Hope says.
2. Balancing profit and purpose (6:48)From a marketing perspective, why getting people to buy coffee and trying to make the world a better place don't need to be mutually exclusive. The importance of a strong purpose that is clear across all you do.
3. Tims' orange doughnuts initiative (10:59)Their social justice efforts toward reconciliation with Indigenous Peoples. Hope discusses some of the risks that need to be considered within such a large scale effort. And the need to get the tone right with a fundraiser involving donuts and sprinkles connects to an issue of such gravitas.
4. The importance of taking time to formulate your response to the world around you (15:04)"(Take) more time upfront, consulting, and (thinking about) how you build the program and design it. Rather than being fast, we wanted to get it right. It was less about having some kind of first mover advantage. And that took a little bit more time to do. But it was absolutely the right approach."
5. The mechanisms to gather the input and feedback needed in your communication (9:35)"We do social listening. We have a council of owners that we speak with regularly that give us feedback. They have cross country representation. We do research with Canadians to understand what's important."

To hear more about how to Tim Hortons approaches their marketing, 🎧 tune in to CMA Connect🎧.

Stay connected and receive the latest marketing news and industry trends by visiting thecma.ca and signing up for a myCMA account.

Reproduced from a conversation originally recorded in February of 2021

In Canada, small business is big business. Marketing from business to small business (B2SB ®) requires a different strategy, Miki Velemirovich maintains. As President of B2SB (business to small business) specialist agency Cargo, Miki joins John Wiltshire for a conversation about how big brands can connect and engage with the decision makers behind small businesses. He shares how marketing the Mercedes Benz Sprinter van spurred him to find, engage and motivate small business owners (SBOs) to achieve leading market share – and how big brands can do the same.

Here's some of what they discuss:

1. Why people buy what they buy (1:25)

This question prompted Miki to think about consumer behaviour, to try and understand the emotional connection between the business owner and the way a brand makes them feel.

2. The state of mind of SBOs (6:41)

Despite the impact of the pandemic, 82% of SBOs are optimistic about the future. Rather than look at the negative, they're changing their business model through the digitization of their sales channels, business operations and innovation.

3. How to target your messaging (9:19)

SBOs are fuelled by optimism and enthusiasm, so you need to tailor your messaging accordingly. Understanding their personas (Crusaders vs Artisans) will help you shift your messaging from sympathy to empowerment. Another differentiator is how different industries will recover (high-touch models like events and hospitality have a slower speed of recovery), which makes a targeted approach necessary.

4.The value of purpose-driven experiences (15:32)

"Be authentic and do what you say you're going to do", Miki advises. Through a study conducted by his agency, Cargo, he discovered that brand purpose was a strong driver of affiliation for millenials. By tying all your products and services into one ecosystem that's less about a feature than it is about what it can do for them, you'll be solving a problem and helping SBOs.

5. The difference between working for an SMB and a big brand (23:34)

Young marketers who work for an SMB instead of a big brand will learn various components of the business much faster. When you work in an SMB, you learn to be okay with ambiguity and lack of defined structure. This often leads to the kind of accelerated innovation and agility that young marketers would rarely find in traditional organizations.

To hear more about how to market to SBOs and turn them into fans and brand ambassadors 🎧 tune in to CMA Connect🎧.

Stay connected and receive the latest marketing news and industry trends by visiting thecma.ca and signing up for a myCMA account.

It's one thing to talk about authenticity, transparency and the need to be aligned with your customers. It's a total other thing to say how we're going to actually put this into action. It's about the conversation with internal stakeholders. It's a conviction to make this part of your long term planning. And it's a question that you ask at each step of your process: Are we being consistently authentic?

In this episode of CMA Connect, host, and President of the Canadian Marketing Association, John Wiltshire dives deep into the subject of brand authenticity from a deeply personal lens.

John touches on:

• His personal health scare from earlier in the fall (1:15) and the decisions that came with it on what and how he communicated information to those around him in his life and his workplace.
• How a brand truly is personification. Because we're dealing with humans, and trying to communicate important aspects of purpose and attributes (2:03).
• How brands often need to make decisions about transparency and the importance of staying away from portraying a false narrative. (3:24)
• The trade off between maximizing shareholder value and meeting customer needs - and why they need to be reconciled (5:00). Value goes beyond EBITDA and share price and into being good corporate citizens (5:55)
• John's 4 Cs for brand authenticity - Conviction, Conversation, Consistency, Creative partners (7:50).

Brand authenticity is complex, and ever changing, but the journey must start today.

🎧 Tune in to CMA Connect 🎧 for the full take on the subject as you plan for your 2022 marketing calendars

Stay connected and receive the latest marketing news and industry trends by visiting thecma.ca and signing up for a myCMA account.

Reproduced from a conversation originally recorded in May of 2020

If your brand isn't everywhere, how will it connect? According to Mitch Joel, connection is what everyone is looking for – and we need to make our connections count. The Founder of Six Pixels Group, a bestselling author, podcaster, and former chair of CMA's board of directors, Mitch joins John Wiltshire on CMA Connect to share his take on where brands should go next as marketers shift towards recovery.

On the show, he shares some of his journey from rock journalist to speaker, blogger, and author, along with why brands need to think very deeply on how much more they could use to connect.

Here's some of what you'll learn:

1. Two divergent concepts to keep top of mind (10:23)

These are the two potential paths the world might go down: whether consumers will buy the way they once bought, or if we need to anticipate three years of struggle.

2. Disrupting disruption = innovation (14:30)

With the true digitization that's happening, brands and marketers need to look beyond their physical limitations towards making products and services more open and accessible.

3. Making connection a priority (20:30)

For example, instead of using newsletters to promote your business, use them to connect with your customers. It's tremendously powerful to have a real person write a real letter in a human voice that explains things and provides value.

4.The power of marketplaces (23:44)

Every business, especially marketers, should think about building your own marketplace or how to be part of one. Along with how to be more direct to consumers in a world that's increasingly demanding it.

To hear more about opportunities for disruption and innovation, tune in to CMA Connect.

Stay connected and receive the latest marketing news and industry trends by visiting thecma.ca and signing up for a myCMA account.

Hello and welcome back to CMA Connect. In this episode, Erin Elofson, who heads up Pinterest's Canada and APAC region, joins John Wiltshire to discuss Pinterest's raison d'êtreand how positivity is built into the platform. Erin shares the difference between social media and personal media, and how brands can deliver ideas and inspiration to pinners who browse with intent. Listen up to find out why the platform should be part of every brand's media mix.

Here's a preview of what they talked about:

• How Pinterest started as a way for users to collect and be inspired by things they found on the internet (1:27) and, with 450 million users, whether the platform is growing locally and internationally (2:50).
• The difference between social media and personal media and where Pinterest lies on the scale (4:24).
• Built-in positivity (4:24) and some of the measures that Pinterest has taken to stay true to this, such as blocking anti-vaccination content back in 2017 (5:54), banning political ads and most recently, prohibiting weight loss advertising.
• How Pinterest's content differs from other social media platforms (6:40), coming mostly from brands who deliver ideas to people using the platform with commercial intent (8:28), often to plan for major milestones. And how this presents unique opportunities to reach an audience at the earliest stages of their journey.
• Why the positivity behind Pinterest (and their mission to create a positive environment for pinners) is a key reason to include Pinterest in any brand's media mix (11:12).
• The importance of trying out different roles and being a 'generalist' when you're starting out in marketing (18:15).

To find out more about Pinterest's social commerce push and why this could help your brand grow, 🎧 tune in to CMA Connect 🎧.

Stay connected and receive the latest marketing news and industry trends by visiting thecma.ca and signing up for a myCMA account.