CMO Chapters Podcast with Lucy Bolan

For the final episode of Season 3, Lucy chats with Jo Rao, newly appointed Chief Marketing Officer at Wink, about a career that started in a very different place – as an 18-year-old receptionist at the West Coast Eagles.

Jo never set out with a perfectly mapped career plan. In fact, she didn’t initially even know that the things she was doing at the Eagles were marketing. She simply kept putting her hand up, taking on new challenges and finding her way.

Over 26 years later, that curiosity has taken her through sport, entertainment, financial services, retail, lifestyle and hospitality, and ultimately to the CMO role.

In this episode, Jo talks honestly about the twists and turns along the way – the opportunities, the setbacks, the redundancies, the moments of resilience and the lessons she’s picked up about knowing when to say yes and, just as importantly, when to say no.

She also shares her thoughts on personal brand, building genuine relationships, why younger marketers have plenty to teach senior leaders, what it really means to have a seat at the executive table and why understanding customers, revenue and the wider business matters so much.

And as AI continues to reshape marketing, Jo believes we may find ourselves coming back to some of the fundamentals – creativity, communication, emotional connection and being human.

A great conversation to finish Season 3, particularly for anyone early in their career who doesn't have it all figured out yet.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• Why you don't need a perfectly mapped-out career plan to build a successful career
• How saying yes to opportunities outside your job description can open unexpected doors
• Why learning when to say no is just as important as learning when to say yes
• The role resilience plays in building a long-term career in marketing
• How to build genuine professional relationships without trying to manufacture a “personal brand”
• Why networking can feel awkward, even when you're naturally outgoing
• Why younger marketers have just as much to bring to the table as experienced leaders
• The importance of understanding customers and having the voice of the customer represented at executive level
• Why CMOs need to understand revenue, profitability and the wider business – not just the marketing budget
• How the role of the CMO is evolving as AI changes the marketing landscape
• Why creativity, communication and emotional connection will continue to matter
• Jo's advice to her 28-year-old self – and why sometimes the best thing you can do is keep going

Resources & Mentions

• Australian Marketing Institute (AMI) – Jo's professional community and a key part of her career network
• Certified Practising Marketer (CPM) – Jo's professional accreditation

Connect with Our Guest:

Follow Jo Rao on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jo-rao/

Follow the Podcast & New Chapter Talent:

Instagram: @NewChapterTalent

LinkedIn: New Chapter Talent || CMO Chapters Podcast

This podcast is brought to you by New Chapter Talent recruitment. If you're hunting for a fulfilling new role or seeking the right talent for your company, contact Lucy Bolan today!

Website: https://www.newchaptertalent.com.au/contact-us

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/new-chapter-talent/

Email: [email protected]

In this episode of CMO Chapters, Lucy Bolan sits down with Michael McConville, Founder of Free Studio, for a refreshingly honest conversation about careers, leadership, confidence and what it really means to find your own way.

Michael's career hasn't followed a neat, five-year-plan kind of path. From tourism and travelling the world to newspapers, advertising and senior leadership roles across some of the industry's biggest agencies, his career has been shaped by curiosity, hard work, a willingness to take a few big leaps and, in his words, simply trying to get good.

Lucy and Michael talk about the leadership lessons he's picked up along the way, including why collecting experiences matters more than chasing titles, the role of luck in a successful career, and how important it is to eventually stop trying to be an "impersonation of a professional person" and become comfortable being yourself.

They also explore the thinking behind Free Studio, Michael's alternative approach to the traditional agency model, why so much brilliant creative and marketing talent is currently sitting outside full-time roles, and what separates the clients who get genuinely brilliant work from those who don't.

It's an open, funny and thoughtful conversation about leadership, confidence, agency culture, curiosity and the importance of being a good egg.

• Why Michael believes getting good at your craft matters more than chasing the next title
• How collecting different experiences can build better judgement and confidence
• Why taking a few calculated leaps can change the direction of your career
• The role of luck, timing and other people in a successful career
• What led Michael to create Free Studio and challenge the traditional agency model
• Why so much talented creative, marketing and advertising talent is currently outside full-time employment
• What separates the clients who get genuinely brilliant work from those who don't
• Why trust and clarity are at the heart of strong client-agency relationships
• How becoming comfortable with who you are can make you better at what you do
• Why leaders have a responsibility to build confidence in the people around them
• The importance of curiosity, asking questions and being willing to say "I don't know"
• Michael's advice for the next generation of marketers and advertisers

• Get good before you get ambitious - Michael wasn't focused on reaching a particular title. His approach was to do the work, get better and collect the experiences that would ultimately give him confidence in his decision-making.
• Your career doesn't have to be linear - Michael's path has taken plenty of unexpected turns. Rather than seeing those experiences as distractions, he sees them as valuable pieces of a much bigger picture.
• Luck matters too - Hard work can take you a long way, but Michael is refreshingly honest about the role luck and timing have played in his career. Recognising that can keep success in perspective.
• Trust is a two-way street - The strongest client-agency relationships aren't built on blind faith. They're built on trust earned by both sides, clear expectations and a shared understanding of what good looks like.
• Authenticity makes you better - Michael talks about reaching a point where he stopped trying to be an impersonation of a professional person and became comfortable being himself. He believes that freedom made him better at his job, not less professional.
• Good leadership builds confidence - For Michael, leadership isn't about the big motivational speech. It's about training, guidance, patience, teamwork and giving people exposure to opportunities that help them discover what they're capable of.
• Stay interested - Michael's advice to the next generation is simple: ask questions, be curious and don't worry about whether you're supposed to already know the answer. You'll learn faster and get more out of the people around you.
• Be a good egg - Perhaps the simplest lesson of the episode. Be yourself, be interested in other people, treat them well and enjoy the connection that comes from it.

• Free Studio – Michael’s creative studio and the business he launched after his agency career.
• News Corp – Where Michael began his career after transitioning into marketing.
• Australian Times – Michael’s time in London, working in sales and marketing, and an important part of his journey into advertising.
• WCRS – One of the agencies Michael worked with during his time in the UK.
• Adam & Eve – Referenced in the conversation around Michael’s agency experience and the creative industry.
• JWT – Michael’s experience working across multi-agency teams, including the Ford account.
• Wunderman – Part of the multi-agency Ford team Michael worked within.
• Mindshare – Another agency involved in the Ford account and Michael’s experience of collaborative client-agency teams.
• Ogilvy PR – Part of the multi-agency team Michael worked with on Ford.
• Free Studio’s approach to talent and agency work – Michael talks about the changing agency model, accessing specialist talent and creating a more flexible way of working.

💬 “I just really wanted to get good.”

💬 “It was about collecting experiences I need to be able to inform my decision making.”

💬 “You don't land in those sorts of places just because you've earned the right.”

💬 “Trust is earned by both parties.”

💬 “Just be yourself.”

💬 “That makes me better at what I do, not worse.”

💬 “Just do the work, work hard and be nice to people.”

💬 “No one actually thinks you should know all the answers.”

💬 “Just be a good egg.”

Michael McConville on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-mcconville-17175a9/

Free Studio: https://free.studio/

Follow the Podcast & New Chapter Talent:

Instagram: @NewChapterTalent

LinkedIn: New Chapter Talent || CMO Chapters Podcast

This podcast is brought to you by New Chapter Talent recruitment. If you're hunting for a fulfilling new role or seeking the right talent for your company, contact Lucy Bolan today!

Website: https://www.newchaptertalent.com.au/contact-us

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/new-chapter-talent/

Email: [email protected]

Chapters:

• (00:00) Introduction to Michael McConville
• (01:18) Finding His Way Into Advertising
• (06:15) Getting Good at the Work — and Building a Career
• (08:22) From Account Leadership to Running Agencies
• (11:19) Mentors, Confidence and Taking Big Career Leaps
• (14:01) Why Michael Built Free Studio
• (19:18) Why So Much Great Talent Is Out of Work
• (22:16) What Creates Brilliant Client–Agency Relationships
• (26:26) Becoming Comfortable Being Yourself as a Leader
• (29:06) Career Advice for the Next Generation
• (32:56) What Leaders Need to Do Differently
• (35:56) The Leadership Lesson Michael Wishes He’d Learned Earlier

In this episode of CMO Chapters, Lucy Bolan sits down with Amy Maiden, Executive Manager (Visitor Economy) Ballarat City Council, Executive Manager (Visitor Economy ) at Tourism Midwest Victoria and former Chief Executive of Anthem, for a candid conversation about leadership, resilience, confidence, and the future of live entertainment.

With more than two decades spent working across some of the world's most recognised entertainment brands, including Disney, West End theatre, Broadway productions and Australia's live events industry, Amy shares the experiences that have shaped her leadership journey.

From learning the power of brand at Disney to navigating the devastation of the pandemic in the arts and entertainment sector, Amy offers an honest reflection on the realities of leadership, the importance of curiosity, and why the best leaders stay deeply connected to people.

They also explore confidence, executive coaching, emotional maturity, and the leadership lessons that only come from navigating high-pressure environments.

This is a thoughtful and refreshingly honest conversation about leading through uncertainty, building self-awareness, and creating a career that stays true to who you are.

• Why curiosity is one of the most underrated leadership skills
• How Disney shaped Amy's understanding of brand, culture and vision
• Why communication is one of the most important leadership capabilities
• How to simplify complex ideas so people can rally behind them
• What leading through the pandemic taught Amy about resilience and trust
• Why resilience should be used as emergency fuel, not a permanent operating system
• The role executive coaching can play in accelerating leadership growth
• The difference between confidence and genuine self-trust
• How emotional maturity becomes increasingly important as careers progress
• Why authenticity creates more sustainable leadership than imitation
• What the future of live entertainment looks like in an increasingly digital world
• Why shared human experiences will always matter

• Curiosity creates better leaders - Amy believes the best leaders never stop learning. Staying curious helps leaders remain open, adaptable and connected to the people they serve.
• Great leadership is about translation - As organisations become more complex, leaders must simplify information and communicate in ways that people can understand, believe in and act upon.
• Resilience has limits - One of Amy's biggest lessons from leading through the pandemic was recognising that resilience isn't something people can operate on forever. Recovery, reflection and rest matter just as much.
• Trust is leadership currency - Whether leading teams through uncertainty or navigating change, trust remains the foundation of effective leadership.
• Confidence comes from self-trust - While external confidence can be learned early, deeper confidence comes from understanding yourself, accepting your strengths and weaknesses, and trusting your judgement.
• Emotional maturity is a leadership advantage - Leading under pressure requires self-awareness, composure and the ability to remain calm when others around you are not.
• You can't lead like someone else - Amy's strongest leadership lesson is that sustainable leadership comes from embracing your own style rather than trying to imitate others.
• Live experiences will always matter - Technology will continue to evolve, but the human need for connection, community and shared experiences remains unchanged.

• Tourism Midwest Victoria
• Anthem
• Tourism Australia

Amy Maiden on LinkedIn

Follow the Podcast & New Chapter Talent:

Instagram: @NewChapterTalent

LinkedIn: New Chapter Talent || CMO Chapters Podcast

This podcast is brought to you by New Chapter Talent recruitment. If you're hunting for a fulfilling new role or seeking the right talent for your company, contact Lucy Bolan today!

Website: https://www.newchaptertalent.com.au/contact-us

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/new-chapter-talent/

Email: [email protected]

Chapters:

(00:00) Introduction to the CMO Chapters Podcast

(00:43) Meet Amy Maiden: marketer, strategist, former CEO and live events leader

(02:05) Starting out in theatre, Disney and the magic of live entertainment

(04:01) Disney School, brand discipline and early leadership lessons

(07:11) The moment leadership started to feel learnable

(09:37) Curiosity, human-centred leadership and communication that cuts through

(12:43) Leading through the pandemic and rebuilding Anthem

(17:23) Resilience, boundaries and learning not to override yourself

(19:30) The hard leadership lesson of emotional maturity

(23:41) Confidence, self-trust and learning to hold uncertainty

(26:12) Why you can only lead as yourself

(28:22) The future of live events, human connection and Amy’s legacy

In this episode of CMO Chapters, Lucy Bolan sits down with Swati Jain, International Commercial Leader, for a candid conversation about an unconventional career path that spans psychology, HR, marketing, and senior leadership roles across multiple countries.

Swati shares how she accidentally landed in marketing, the lessons learned from working at global organisations like GSK, and what it really takes to lead across cultures, industries and business models.

They also explore the reality of moving countries for work, the importance of resilience when things don’t go to plan, and how AI is reshaping the way marketing teams think about productivity and growth.

This is a grounded, honest conversation about building a career through curiosity, adaptability, and a willingness to take opportunities as they come.

• How an “accidental marketer” builds a global leadership career
• Why psychology can be a powerful foundation for commercial leadership
• What working at a global organisation like GSK really teaches you early in your career
• The realities of stakeholder management in complex, matrix environments
• How to scale new business ideas without damaging the core business
• What really changes when you move countries for work
• Why cultural understanding matters more than preparation
• How AI is already being used inside marketing teams to drive productivity
• Why prompting skill matters more than the tool itself
• How to think about career progression beyond titles and job descriptions
• What it looks like to build a career across industries, not just within one
• Why building networks outside your immediate industry matters more than most people realise
• How to define success beyond role, title or compensation

• People thinking is a career superpower: Swati’s psychology background shows up everywhere in her career - from consumer insight to leadership style. Understanding people remains the constant thread.
• Global organisations shape early career thinking: Working at GSK gave her exposure to scale, complexity, stakeholder alignment and cross-cultural leadership early on - setting a strong foundation for everything that followed.
• Growth needs balance: One of the key lessons from her career is that scaling new initiatives without protecting the core business can create unintended consequences.
• Moving countries is more than a job change: Relocation is a full life transition. Success depends less on preparation and more on adaptability, cultural awareness and personal responsibility.
• AI is a productivity lever, not a threat: Used well, AI removes repetitive work and frees up time for higher-value thinking. The real differentiator is knowing how to prompt it effectively.
• Titles slow people down more than they realise: Career growth accelerates when people focus on experience, not hierarchy.
• Networks matter more than most people realise early on: Building relationships beyond your immediate industry creates perspective, opportunity and long-term career strength.
• Success evolves: For Swati, success is no longer about titles. It’s about building capability in others and helping develop strong business leaders.

Swati Jain on LinkedIn

*****

Follow the Podcast & New Chapter Talent:

Instagram: @NewChapterTalent

LinkedIn: New Chapter Talent || CMO Chapters Podcast

This podcast is brought to you by New Chapter Talent recruitment. If you're hunting for a fulfilling new role or seeking the right talent for your company, contact Lucy Bolan today!

Website: https://www.newchaptertalent.com.au/contact-us

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/new-chapter-talent/

Email: [email protected]

In this episode of CMO Chapters, Lucy Bolan sits down with Alicia Rieniets, a seasoned marketing and digital leader with over 20 years’ experience across brands including Ford, Australia Post, UniSuper and Bupa.

This is a conversation that cuts through the noise. Alicia shares what reinvention actually looks like in practice, why it’s not a one-off moment but a career-long discipline, and how the best marketers connect change directly to commercial outcomes.

From navigating transformation inside complex organisations to building trust in an AI-driven world, Alicia brings a refreshingly honest and practical take on what it means to lead today.

If you’ve ever felt the pressure to “do more” when things aren’t working, this one will shift your thinking.

Why reinvention is a repeatable skill, not a one-time event: Alicia explains how the most successful marketers continually evolve, both professionally and personally, and why holding onto past success can quietly hold you back.

The difference between real reinvention and surface-level change: “Reinvention without revenue is just rebranding.” A standout moment that reframes how marketing leaders should think about impact and accountability.

How to spot when the model is broken (and what to do next): More channels, more spend, more activity isn’t the answer. Alicia shares how stepping back often unlocks the real solution.

A practical approach to leading change inside organisations: From creating clarity to building psychological safety and momentum, Alicia breaks down how to actually bring teams with you.

Why brand matters more than ever in an AI world: As search becomes “answer-led”, Alicia explains why trust, consistency and brand reputation are now critical inputs into how businesses are discovered.

Balancing performance and brand without losing either: A clear take on why marketing isn’t either/or, and how the strongest teams build a system where both work together.

Career advice for marketers at every stage: From grads to future CMOs, Alicia shares simple, practical ways to build visibility, think bigger, and accelerate your growth.

• Reinvention starts with you. If you can’t evolve, neither can the business.
• If something isn’t working, doing more of it won’t fix it.
• Progress beats perfection. Waiting too long kills momentum.
• The best marketers think commercially first, not just creatively.
• AI isn’t just a tech shift, it’s a trust shift.
• Strong brands will win in a world of automation and sameness.
• Small, consistent actions drive real change over time.

Alicia Rieniets on LinkedIn

*****

Follow the Podcast & New Chapter Talent:

Instagram: @NewChapterTalent

LinkedIn: New Chapter Talent || CMO Chapters Podcast

This podcast is brought to you by New Chapter Talent recruitment. If you're hunting for a fulfilling new role or seeking the right talent for your company, contact Lucy Bolan today!

Website: https://www.newchaptertalent.com.au/contact-us

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/new-chapter-talent/

Email: [email protected]

Chapters:

• (00:00) Introduction to CMO Chapters
• (00:43) Meet Alicia Rieniets
• (01:27) Reinvention as the thread through Alicia’s career
• (03:39) Early lessons from NAB and learning corporate life
• (06:24) Moving across industries and selling transferable skills
• (10:47) Why reinvention without revenue is just rebranding
• (13:40) Turning around Bupa’s dental business
• (15:58) Leading change starts with reinventing yourself
• (21:08) AI, trust and the next challenge for marketing leaders
• (24:50) Why brand still matters in a performance-led world
• (26:57) Where to start when you need to reinvent yourself
• (31:41) Career advice for marketers stepping into leadership

In this episode of CMO Chapters, Lucy Bolan sits down with Penny Elmslie, CMO of Affinda and former Global GM Brand at Xero, for a refreshingly honest conversation about what marketing really looks like behind the scenes.

From starting her career in media sales to helping scale Xero from a little-known challenger brand to a global powerhouse, Penny shares the realities of building marketing functions from scratch, navigating hyper-growth, and leading through constant change.

This is a grounded, practical conversation that cuts through the fluff. Penny unpacks the difference between “doing marketing” and driving real business impact, why EQ is fast becoming a leader’s greatest advantage, and how marketers can stay relevant in a world that’s shifting faster than ever.

Why marketing is more commercial than most people realise: Penny breaks down the myth that marketing is just creativity and campaigns. At its core, it’s about clarity, execution and driving measurable business outcomes.

The reality of scaling a brand like Xero: From launching campaigns with zero assets to building global playbooks, Penny shares what it actually takes to grow from scrappy startup to international scale.

How to balance bold ideas with business priorities: Not every good idea should live forever. Penny talks about knowing when to push, when to pause, and when to let go.

Why vanity metrics are holding marketers back: A clear take on why impressions and clicks don’t cut it, and what leaders should really be measuring instead.

The role of EQ in modern leadership: In a world full of smart people, emotional intelligence is what sets great leaders apart. Penny explains how understanding people drives better outcomes across teams, stakeholders and customers.

What actually matters for aspiring marketing leaders: From finding your strengths to building the right environment around you, this is practical advice for anyone looking to step up into leadership.

Marketing = business impact, not activity: The best marketers connect everything they do back to commercial outcomes. If it doesn’t move the business forward, it’s noise.

We’re all just marketing to humans: B2B, B2C… it doesn’t matter. Strip it back and you’re speaking to people with emotions, pressures and motivations. That’s where the real connection happens.

Timing matters more than the idea: There’s rarely a “bad” idea, but there is bad timing. Knowing when to execute is where experience really shows.

Your environment shapes your career: Finding “your people” can be the difference between surviving in a role and genuinely thriving in it.

Careers aren’t linear, and that’s the point: Penny’s journey is a reminder that progression isn’t about titles. It’s about impact, growth and putting yourself in the right rooms.

Penny Elmslie on LinkedIn

*****

Follow the Podcast & New Chapter Talent:

Instagram: @NewChapterTalent

LinkedIn: New Chapter Talent || CMO Chapters Podcast

This podcast is brought to you by New Chapter Talent recruitment. If you're hunting for a fulfilling new role or seeking the right talent for your company, contact Lucy Bolan today!

Website: https://www.newchaptertalent.com.au/contact-us

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/new-chapter-talent/

Email: [email protected]

Chapters:

• (00:00) Introduction to CMO Chapters
• (00:53) Penny’s career chapter in AI and tech marketing
• (01:45) From media sales to marketing
• (03:00) What marketing really turned out to be
• (05:09) Joining Xero before anyone knew the brand
• (07:15) Building from scratch vs scaling globally
• (10:46) Finding the next scale-up chapter
• (14:01) Lessons from failures and knowing when to let go
• (17:42) Marketing to humans, not job titles
• (19:59) Ambition, influence and becoming a CMO
• (24:14) What separates a good CMO from a stellar CMO
• (28:04) Career advice, networks and the leadership skill that always matters

In this episode of CMO Chapters, Lucy Bolan sits down with Libby Hodgson, Chief Marketing Officer at UNICEF Australia, for a thoughtful and refreshingly honest conversation about what modern marketing leadership really looks like.

Libby shares her non-linear career journey across financial services, the UK, and purpose-led organisations, and reflects on the moments that shaped her leadership style. From navigating workplace conflict to building confidence over time, this is a grounded look at what it actually takes to grow into a CMO role.

The conversation also dives into one of the biggest shifts facing marketers today, the rise of AI. Libby unpacks how UNICEF has approached adoption in a practical, human-first way, and why culture, not just tools, determines success.

A must-listen for marketers at every stage, especially those thinking about leadership, relevance, and how to build a career that lasts.

• Why career paths aren’t always planned: Libby reflects on how her early career wasn’t mapped out for leadership, and how stepping outside the “expected path” helped shape her trajectory.
• The reality of leadership and conflict: One of the biggest lessons in her career has been learning to sit with discomfort, manage conflict, and lead through ambiguity.
• The skills marketers need at different stages: From execution and delivery early on, to strategy, financial literacy, and people leadership at senior levels, the skillset evolves more than most expect.
• How AI is actually being implemented in marketing teams: A practical look at how to introduce AI without overwhelming teams, starting with guardrails, empowering individuals, and focusing on real business problems.
• Why soft skills are becoming the differentiator: As AI accelerates capability, it’s emotional intelligence, curiosity, and critical thinking that will set marketers apart.
• Specialist vs generalist – what really works: Early specialisation can accelerate growth, but long-term leadership requires breadth, adaptability, and a willingness to step into the unknown.
• What makes a great CMO today: Strategic thinking, strong communication, curiosity, resilience, and the ability to connect marketing to real business outcomes.

UNICEF Australia – Purpose-led organisation focused on protecting children’s rights and wellbeing globally.

AI in Marketing (ACAM) – Practical frameworks around governance, experimentation, and adoption within teams.

Libby Hodgson on LinkedIn

*****

Follow the Podcast & New Chapter Talent:

Instagram: @NewChapterTalent

LinkedIn: New Chapter Talent || CMO Chapters Podcast

This podcast is brought to you by New Chapter Talent recruitment. If you're hunting for a fulfilling new role or seeking the right talent for your company, contact Lucy Bolan today!

Website: https://www.newchaptertalent.com.au/contact-us

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/new-chapter-talent/

Email: [email protected]

Chapters:

• (00:00) Introduction to CMO Chapters & Libby Hodgson
• (01:25) Libby’s Career Journey: From Financial Services to UNICEF
• (02:09) Early Career Ambition & Finding Direction
• (04:21) Career Reflections: Decisions, Regrets & Purpose
• (05:53) Hard Lessons: Navigating Conflict as a Leader
• (08:31) Advice for Aspiring CMOs: Skills That Matter
• (11:46) AI, Soft Skills & Staying Relevant in Marketing
• (15:14) Inside AI Adoption at UNICEF: Where to Start
• (22:05) Building a Personal Brand as a Marketing Leader
• (25:36) What It Really Takes to Be a Successful CMO
• (27:46) The Reality of Leadership: Pressure & Loneliness
• (31:09) Specialist vs Generalist: Career Strategy Explained
• (34:10) Legacy, Impact & Supporting Others’ Careers

In this episode of CMO Chapters, Lucy Bolan sits down with Mohit (Mo) Bhargava, a seasoned marketing leader with over 20 years’ experience across media, entertainment and global markets.

From an unexpected start behind a university bar to leading marketing across Southeast Asia, Mo shares a career shaped by curiosity, relationships and a willingness to step into the unknown.

This is a refreshingly honest conversation about what the CMO role really looks like, how careers actually unfold (hint: not in a straight line), and why the best marketers today blend creativity with commercial thinking.

Mo also opens up on the harder side of leadership, what he looks for when hiring, and why “growing your bubble” might be the most important career advice you’ll hear this year.

• Why the CMO role isn’t what you think: No two marketing leadership roles look the same. The expectations, remit and impact of marketing change dramatically depending on the business.
• How curiosity can shape your entire career: Mo’s first role came from a conversation at a bar. A simple reminder that how you show up outside the job description often matters more than what’s on your CV.
• The reality of leadership (beyond the title): Leadership isn’t a promotion, it’s a skill built over time. And often, the hardest parts of the role have very little to do with marketing.
• What great hiring really comes down to: It’s not just about capability. It’s about chemistry, self-awareness and whether someone’s style fits the role marketing plays in that business.
• Why soft skills are becoming the differentiator: Technical skills get you in the room. How you think, communicate and collaborate is what sets you apart.
• How to stay relevant in the age of AI: AI can improve speed and efficiency, but creativity still needs human energy. The best marketers will know how to balance both.
• The importance of commercial thinking: If you’ve never had to sell something, you’re missing a key piece of the puzzle. Understanding revenue changes how you approach marketing.
• “Grow your bubble”: One of the standout moments of the episode. Broaden your perspective, challenge your environment, and actively seek different experiences. It’s critical for leadership.

• Careers are rarely linear. Follow themes, not titles.
• Relationships matter, but credibility matters more.
• Don’t wait for a leadership role to start leading.
• Marketing leaders today need both depth (a “superpower”) and breadth.
• Staying close to culture isn’t optional, it’s part of the job.
• The best opportunities often come from what you do consistently over time, not one interview moment.

Mohit Bhargava – LinkedIn

***

Follow the Podcast & New Chapter Talent:

Instagram: @NewChapterTalent

LinkedIn: New Chapter Talent || CMO Chapters Podcast

This podcast is brought to you by New Chapter Talent recruitment. If you're hunting for a fulfilling new role or seeking the right talent for your company, contact Lucy Bolan today!

Website: https://www.newchaptertalent.com.au/contact-us

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/new-chapter-talent/

Email: [email protected]

Chapters:

• (00:00) Introduction to CMO Chapters & Guest Welcome
• (01:15) Mohit’s Background: 20 Years in Media & Entertainment
• (02:08) The Reality of a CMO Role (Expectation vs Reality)
• (03:23) From Bartender to Marketing: The Career Break That Started It All
• (07:53) Ambition, Career Direction & Finding Your Industry
• (10:44) The Hardest Leadership Decisions (Moving During COVID)
• (13:16) What CMOs Actually Look for When Hiring
• (18:07) AI, Creativity & The Future of Marketing Teams
• (21:04) Why Your Career Is Always “On Interview”
• (23:16) Advice for Aspiring Leaders: Don’t Wait for the Title
• (29:30) “Grow Your Bubble” & Avoiding Career Stagnation
• (31:32) Rebuilding a Career & Defining Legacy

In this episode of CMO Chapters, Lucy Bolan sits down with Jarrod Purchase, a seasoned marketing leader with over 17 years’ experience spanning startups, scale-ups and global brands.

Jarrod shares his journey from hands-on email marketer to CMO, and why working closely with founders shaped the way he thinks about marketing, leadership and impact. He also opens up about building Club CMO Australia, the realities of today’s job market, and how AI is quietly reshaping teams, roles and expectations.

This is a grounded, honest conversation about what marketing really looks like behind the scenes. Less theory, more reality.

• Why the best marketers balance creativity and commercial thinking It’s not just about great campaigns. The ability to connect activity to outcomes is what earns trust and influence.
• How working with founders changes your perspective Closer to decisions, faster pace, less politics. But it also demands adaptability and accountability.
• The real value of community at CMO level Why Jarrod built Club CMO Australia and how peer conversations often beat any course or podcast.
• What’s actually happening in the marketing job market right now Fewer roles at the top, pressure at the bottom, and a growing shift towards fractional and flexible leadership.
• How AI is changing team structures (without the hype) Not a wipeout of roles, but a shift in how teams are built, where senior thinking matters more and execution becomes leaner.
• Why personal brand is often a byproduct, not a strategy Focus on connecting people and adding value. The rest tends to follow.
• The biggest career mistakes marketers make Not trusting your gut on roles, and not properly assessing whether a business truly values marketing.

• Marketing is both creative and commercial. You need to be comfortable in both worlds.
• The closer you are to decision-makers, the more impact you can have.
• Community and peer learning become critical as you step into senior roles.
• AI is more likely to reshape teams than replace them entirely.
• Strong marketers ask better questions, especially when it comes to numbers.
• Culture, leadership and respect for marketing matter more than job titles.

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jarrod-purchase-marketing-brand-strategy/

Club CMO Australia: https://www.linkedin.com/company/club-cmo-aus/

***

Follow the Podcast & New Chapter Talent:

Instagram: @NewChapterTalent

LinkedIn: New Chapter Talent || CMO Chapters Podcast

This podcast is brought to you by New Chapter Talent recruitment. If you're hunting for a fulfilling new role or seeking the right talent for your company, contact Lucy Bolan today!

Website: https://www.newchaptertalent.com.au/contact-us

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/new-chapter-talent/

Email: [email protected]

Chapters:

• (00:00) Welcome to CMO Chapters
• (00:48) Meet Jarrod Purchase: From Email Marketing to CMO
• (02:08) Starting Out at GSK & Falling Into Marketing
• (04:10) Creativity vs Commercial: What Marketing Really Is
• (05:48) Intentional Careers & Finding the Right Environment
• (08:02) Why the CMO Role Was Never the Goal
• (09:09) Building Community, Not Personal Brand
• (12:08) The Reality of Today’s Marketing Job Market
• (14:00) AI, Lean Teams & The Future of Hiring
• (19:02) Leadership Skills: What Actually Matters
• (20:06) The Gap Between Creative Work & Commercial Impact
• (22:23) The Future of the CMO Role
• (25:25) Failures, Gut Instinct & Choosing the Right Company
• (28:33) Learning from People, Not Just Content
• (30:24) What’s Next for Jarrod

In the Season 3 opener of CMO Chapters, Lucy Bolan sits down with storytelling expert Gabrielle “Ral” Dolan for a refreshingly honest conversation about why storytelling isn’t just a “nice to have” - it’s a core leadership skill.

From leaving corporate to build a business around storytelling (long before it was fashionable), to unpacking how stories drive emotion, trust and decision-making, Ral shares what actually works - and what doesn’t.

They explore how storytelling cuts through in a world of AI and content overload, why most leaders get it wrong, and how marketers, candidates and executives can use simple, human stories to connect, influence and stand out.

If you’ve ever been told to “tell your story” but weren’t quite sure how - this episode makes it feel a whole lot clearer.

• Why storytelling is one of the most underrated leadership skills
• The real reason stories influence decisions (hint: it’s not logic)
• How to make your message land - and actually be remembered
• The difference between telling a story and just talking for too long
• How CMOs can use storytelling to bring values and culture to life
• Practical ways to use storytelling in job interviews
• Why personal stories often carry more weight than professional ones
• How to avoid sounding like everyone else in a world full of AI-generated content
• The simple structure that keeps your stories clear, sharp and impactful

Emotion drives decisions - not logic alone

We like to think we’re rational, especially in business. We’re not. Stories tap into emotion, and that’s what people remember and act on.

Stories build credibility in a way words can’t

Anyone can say “I value collaboration” or “customer experience matters.” A story proves it - and that’s what people trust.

Shorter is stronger

If your story is running over two minutes, you’ve probably lost people. The best ones are tight, clear and focused on one message.

Personal stories are the secret weapon

They’re underused - and often the most powerful. They show who you are, not just what you’ve done.

Storytelling is a skill, not a talent

Some people are naturally good at it, but everyone can get better with the right structure and practice.

Your employees are your best storytellers

Not just marketing. Not just leadership. Everyone in the business plays a role in shaping the brand story.

• Story Intelligence by Gabrielle Dolan
• Stephen Denning - The Leader’s Guide to Storytelling
• Aristotle’s model of influence: Logos, Ethos, Pathos

Gabrielle Dolan on LinkedIn

Follow the Podcast & New Chapter Talent:

Instagram: @NewChapterTalent

LinkedIn: New Chapter Talent || CMO Chapters Podcast

This podcast is brought to you by New Chapter Talent recruitment. If you're hunting for a fulfilling new role or seeking the right talent for your company, contact Lucy Bolan today!

Website: https://www.newchaptertalent.com.au/contact-us

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/new-chapter-talent/

Email: [email protected]

Chapters:

• (00:00) Welcome to CMO Chapters
• (00:43) Introducing Gabrielle Dolan
• (01:35) Gabrielle’s career journey into storytelling
• (03:05) Why storytelling mattered in business before it was mainstream
• (06:45) Is storytelling natural talent or a skill you can build?
• (08:55) Why stories are so effective and memorable
• (11:19) Storytelling, AI and building trust
• (12:43) How leaders can use personal stories to bring values to life
• (17:43) The biggest storytelling mistake: stories that go too long
• (19:08) Using storytelling in interviews and career progression
• (27:26) Why storytelling is a career skill, not just a marketing skill
• (37:26) What’s next for Gabrielle and why storytelling is a life skill
• (39:55) Closing thoughts on the road to CMO