CMO Therapy

Being a marketing leader in a big brand is one thing… but stepping into a startup? That’s a completely different sport. In this episode of CMO Therapy, Lucy is joined by Sharon Hergarty, who’s done both - from global giants like Samsung and the BBC to getting properly hands-on as a fractional CMO in a startup where you’re essentially the entire marketing function.
Together they unpack what actually transfers (the principles), what needs to be unlearned (hello, endless process and over-engineering) and why decision-making suddenly feels a lot more personal when there’s nowhere to hide. They also get into the reality of building without infrastructure, staying focused when everything feels urgent and how your network becomes your secret weapon when the “team” is… well… you.
As Sharon puts it,“You can’t optimise yourself into oblivion… sometimes you’ve just got to try stuff and see what happens.”
If you’re navigating the shift between big brand muscle and startup hustle, this episode is packed with honest, practical insights you’ll actually use.
Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence

In this episode of CMO Therapy, Lucy sits down with the brilliant Mel Barfield, Managing Partner and Brand Voice Lead at Copy or Die, to talk about why tone of voice still matters massively… especially now AI can produce polished content in seconds.
We get into why tone of voice is not just a nice little brand exercise or a page buried in the guidelines, but a real leadership choice that shapes trust, consistency and how your business actually shows up. Mel shares why so many brands end up sounding the same, where tone-of-voice work usually falls apart and why implementation matters just as much as the strategy itself.
We also dig into the growing tension between speed and quality in the age of AI. How do you use AI without letting your brand voice get replaced by bland, robotic beige-ness?
As Mel puts it: “The language that you use is so important. It can make trust and it can break trust.”
If you care about brand, credibility and sounding like an actual human, this one’s for you.Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence

In this episode of CMO Therapy, Lucy is joined by Lucas Bergmans (ex Wise, Moneysupermarket, Cazoo, Heineken, Britvic) to get into one of the most important and most misunderstood relationships in B2B marketing: the one between the CMO and the founder or CEO. It can be energising, messy, brilliant and maddening in equal measure and when it works, it changes everything.
Together, they unpack the patterns marketing leaders come up against time and time again in founder-led businesses: big vision, strong opinions, fast decisions, deep customer instinct and the occasional tension over who really knows best when it comes to marketing. They talk about how trust gets built, how CMOs can bring structure without killing momentum, when to challenge, when to lean in and why credibility at the top comes from commercial thinking, customer understanding and evidence, not just good ideas.
As Lucas says, “data takes opinions off the table” and in these relationships, that matters. Because the fastest way to move from friction to progress is getting out of opinion tennis and into something real.

In this episode of CMO Therapy, Lucy sits down with expert marketing leader and Brand & Marketing Director at Zego, Ingrid Sierra, to unpack one of the toughest challenges in B2B marketing: what really happens after the contract is signed.
Because let’s be honest… once the high-fives fade and onboarding is done, most customers aren’t thinking about you at all.
So why is retention so hard, especially in industries where interaction is low and pricing often wins the deal? And why won’t loyalty schemes and “just checking in” emails save you?
Lucy and Ingrid dive into the messy middle between onboarding and renewal, from NPS drop-offs and usage gaps to gamification, trust-building and showing up in the moments that actually matter.
As Ingrid puts it: “If they choose you because of pricing, you need to make sure that at renewal they actually choose you for the right reasons.”
If you care about churn, growth and earning the right to show up when there’s no obvious reason to, you'll love this episode.Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence

What does it really take for a 160-year-old brand to stay relevant in a world obsessed with shiny new fintechs, challenger banks and AI-powered everything?
In this episode of CMO Therapy, I’m joined by Joe Goldberg, Head of Brand Strategy at Santander UK, for a no-fluff, deeply human conversation about how legacy brands evolve without losing their soul.
We dig into why modern banking isn’t about shouting “we’re digital” - it’s about designing emotional experiences that make people feel confident, included and in control of their money. Joe unpacks the real battle for salience in an AI-driven future, why most brands misunderstand loyalty and how trust, tone and honesty matter more than ever when your product is invisible.
There’s also a brilliant deep dive into experiential brand design, the role of fame (hello Ant & Dec), and why anxiety (not apathy) is the real enemy of modern financial services.
As Joe puts it:
“If you’re not salient, if people don’t know you exist, you’re dead.”
If you’re a CMO navigating growth, relevance and emotional connection in a complex category… this one’s unmissable.Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence

In this episode of CMO Therapy, I’m joined by Paul Taylor who held senior marketing leadership roles at firms like Swift and SS&C, to unpack one of the most misunderstood (and under-invested) growth levers in B2B: customer advocacy.
We get brutally honest about why advocacy so often gets reduced to logo slides, rushed case studies and last-minute favours for sales and why that mindset is costing marketing teams serious pipeline. Paul shares a much smarter way to think about advocacy, as a flywheel, not a campaign. When it's built on trust and peer-to-peer influence, customers will be talking about you when you’re not in the room. Love that!
We dig into how to design advocacy that feels human (not needy - we've all been there), how to spot real advocates hiding in plain sight, how to scale it without killing authenticity and how CMOs can actually measure impact beyond vanity metrics.
As Paul puts it:
“Good advocacy isn’t PR. It’s insurance for your brand in a world where trust is collapsing.”
If you want advocacy to drive growth, not just decorate your website, this one’s a must-listen.
Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence

In this episode of CMO Therapy, I sit down with Michelle to talk about one of the most misunderstood (and quietly tense) relationships in the C-suite: the Chief Marketing Officer and the Chief Commercial Officer.
This conversation was sparked by a debate that really stuck with me about where marketing should sit in an organisation, especially in fast-growing or acquisition-heavy businesses. There’s a growing assumption that marketing should automatically roll into commercial and Michelle articulates, brilliantly, why that can be a problem. As she puts it, “the Chief Commercial Officer drives revenue today. The Chief Marketing Officer builds revenue for tomorrow.” That distinction alone stopped me in my tracks.
We dig into why marketing so often becomes sales support, what happens when there’s no CMO voice at the table and what “good” actually looks like when commercial and marketing work in true partnership. If you’re a CMO or marketing leader trying to move from lead factory to long-term growth engine, you’ll get a lot from this one.Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence

Ever been asked “So… are you more brand or demand?” and felt your soul leave your body? Same. In this episode of CMO Therapy, I sit down with the brilliant Smita Gupta to blow up that false choice and dig into what she calls the two-speed CMO – the marketer who can deliver this quarter and build compounding growth for next year.
We get into why “brand vs demand” is the wrong question, how to stop marketing becoming a glorified service desk for sales and what it really looks like to run your function like an investment portfolio, balancing pipeline now, conversion improvement and future demand creation.
Smita shares the dashboards, metrics and language that actually land with CEOs, CFOs and CROs, plus how to position marketing as a growth engine, not a cost centre.
When it comes to demand and brand, as Smita puts it “If you only do one, you either look busy or look brilliant. Neither guarantees revenue.”
Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence

In this episode of CMO Therapy, we’re diving deep into one of marketing’s most hotly debated topics: how to balance brand investment with the constant pressure to deliver more leads. I’m joined by the fabulous Corin Camenisch, who’s built her career across product, brand, and growth, making her the perfect guide through the chaos.
We get into what really happens when your performance engine starts to plateau, how to structure brand experiments that prove value fast and the early signals that show your brand work is actually shifting the needle (long before revenue hits). We talk creative that truly lifts, internal storytelling, mapping your internal “audiences” and how to pitch brand in a language your CFO will actually understand.
And Corin sums up the heart of the episode beautifully when she says:
“Instead of being like ‘I want a big brand awareness campaign’, it’s better to say: why don’t we run an experiment to help decrease your CAC… that’s when people start to listen.”
If you’re a marketing leader trying to defend brand budget and make your performance engine more efficient, this episode is packed with firepower.
Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence

Sales and marketing - same team, right? So why do so many companies still treat them like distant cousins who only talk at family reunions? In this episode of CMO Therapy, I chat with Michael Treacy, Director of Marketing and Business Development at OpenPayd, about the art (and occasional chaos) of getting sales and marketing truly aligned.
We dig into why alignment isn’t just about passing leads over the fence, but about shared goals, mutual trust and actually speaking the same customer language.
Michael puts it perfectly: “The moment you hand over that MQL and say, ‘my job’s done,’ that’s when it all starts falling down.”
From practical ways to tighten collaboration, to how AI tools like Gong are transforming the feedback loop between teams, this one’s a must-listen for any marketing leader tired of the sales vs. marketing tug-of-war.Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence