Coaching Coaches

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My guest today is Ben Cohen, the sports reporter for the Wall Street Journal and author of The Hot Hand: The Mystery and Science of Streaks.

The book is a fantastic read on humans' ability to get in the "zone" and our ability, or lack of ability, to decipher patterns from data. He also explains how the hot hand applies to areas of life besides sports, including artists, scientists, and directors, and how even Shakespeare experienced a hot streak when he was living during the plague, very similar to the situation we are living in now. This is a wide-ranging conversation around cognitive biases, streaks, and our limitations to see patterns and I couldn't recommend the book more.

Show Notes

(1:15) —Ben explains what the hot hand is

(3:22) — Why humans are evolutionarily made to be bad at deciphering patterns

(4:40) — What led to the hot hand being proven true after 40 years of studies showing otherwise

(14:45) — Why Spotify and Apple were forced to handle customers not believing in their "shuffle mode" since we are so bad at deciphering patterns

(19:15) — The difference between the hot hand and the gambler's fallacy

(24:10) — How Shakespeare experienced the hot hand when living through the plague

(26:33) — There's no way to determine when you'll experience the hot hand

(32:15) — End of episode questions

End of Episode Questions:

1.What's 1 book every coach should read?

• Moneyball: The Art of Winning an Unfair Game by Michael Lewis

1. Who is one person you'd want to hear as a guest on this podcast?

• Jason Gay

1. What advice do you have for young coaches who are listening to this?

• Take advantage of your own perspective

1. What's the darkest moment you experienced professionally and how did you overcome it?

• After there was an issue with how an article he wrote was shared, Twitter was relentlessly harassing him about it.

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My guest today is Annie Duke, who was previously one of the best poker players in the world and is now a renowned public speaker and best-selling author. If anyone has the perfect background to discuss decision-making, it's Annie. She pursued a Ph.D. in psychology at UPenn before starting her poker career, and when she stepped away from poker in 2012, she was the leading money winner among women in the World Series of Poker.

Our conversation today focuses on both her books, Thinking in Bets and How to Decide: Simple Tools for Making Better Choices. We discuss both causes of bad decisions and ways to make better ones. She explains the issue with analyzing decisions based on outcome (which she calls resulting) and uses real decisions made by Pete Carroll, Nick Saban, and Bill Belichick as examples. We also discuss best practices for group decision making from the standpoint of a coaching staff or front office when scouting or drafting a player.

(1:20) — Episode begins with Annie's background from UPenn to becoming a professional poker player

(7:30) — Explanation of resulting, her term for focusing on the outcome over the process, with the Pete Carroll play call in the Super Bowl that led to Russell Wilson's game-losing interception as an example

(28:50) — Best habits for group decision-making from the point-of-view of a Head Coach or General Manager

(46:40) — The importance of using precise verbiage and percentages when making forecasts

(56:30) — End of episode questions

1. What's 1 book every coach should read?

• The Success Equation: Untangling Skill and Luck in Business, Sports, and Investing by Michael Mauboussin

2. Who is one person you'd want to hear as a guest on this podcast?

• Michael Mauboussin

3. What's one area you're looking to improve in over the next year?

• Limit negative self-talk and be kinder to herself

4. What's popular advice you hear people say that you think is wrong?

• You make your own luck

5. What advice do you have for young coaches who are listening to this?

• Focus on improving your decision-making process

6. What's the darkest moment you experienced professionally and how did you overcome it?

• Being sick while finishing her graduate program at UPenn

"Whenever you do something that's unusual, you're risking idiot, and most people would prefer to risk bad luck than idiot. If I hand it off to Marshawn Lynch, my risk is people say I have bad luck. If I choose a pass play and it doesn't work out, even if it's the better decision, and it doesn't work out, I'm risking idiot. People don't want to risk that because that's career risk."

"Here's the interesting thing about Belichick: When you look at the early part of his career, he wasn't doing those things on fourth down. He's really famous for going for it on fourth down in places people don't understand. Guess what? The first few years of his career, he wasn't doing that. It wasn't until he had a ring when his job wasn't at risk anymore…that he started to make those fourth down calls."

"The goal of having a bunch of people to come in and give their perspectives is to inform everybody of the different ways you can model the data you have, the different ways that you can think about it and view it and the different perspectives you have. And then the person who can ultimately decide (like the GM) then is now the best informed to make a decision."

"This is step one: when you're thinking about do you want to recruit a player, and you're eliciting the opinions of those on the coaching staff, make sure they're giving them to you independently and that they don't know your opinion."

"The things that matter is not so much the things you agree on, but the differences of opinion. To be a good part of a team, it doesn't mean that being on the same page means agreeing."

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My guest today is Matt McCall, head coach for the UMass men's basketball team. Previously, he was the head coach at the University of Tennessee at Chattanooga where he took them to an NCAA tournament in his first year. He also spent years working under Billy Donovan at the University of Florida, where he won two national championships while working as the Director of Operations and earned a trip to the 2014 Final Four as an assistant coach.

In this episode, we discuss what it was like to spend so many years at Florida including the back-to-back national championship seasons, what made some of those teams special, and what his biggest lessons were from Billy Donovan. We also touch on what it was like to go from an assistant coach to head coach and what he would do differently looking back on his time as an assistant coach. If you are an assistant hoping to make the leap to head coach in the near future, this episode is a must-listen.

(1:26) — Episode begins with his early career at UF as a student-manager, GA, and Director of Operations

(6:22) — What he did to earn Coach Donovan's trust early on

(8:40) — What the experience was like being part of back-to-back national championships in 2006/2007 and making the Final 4 in 2014

(14:30) — Coach Donovan helping older players not be frustrated with sophomores Joakim Noah & Al Horford starting unexpectedly

(16:30) — How he witnessed Coach Donovan evolve

(19:45) — Lessons he learned from being on staff with so many former or future head coaches

(22:05) — Why he started taking notes in his career

(25:40) — His approach to being hired as the head coach at Chattanooga

(34:00) — Being hired at UMass

(39:00) — How he handles the stress of the job

(51:00) — How he handles work/life balance

(52:30) — Lessons he's learned in hiring at both UTC and UMass

(54:50) — What are the most important traits for a head coach

(57:00) — Advice for assistant coaches now that he's been a head coach

(59:20) — How he remains humble while experiencing personal success at a young age

(1:01:05) — End of episode questions

1. What's 1 book every coach should read?

• Legacy by James Kerr

• The Value of You: The Guide to Living Boldly and Joyfully Through the Power of Core Values by Christopher Connors

• Ego Is the Enemy by Ryan Holiday

• What You Do Is Who You Are: How to Create Your Business Culture by Ben Horowitz

• The Energy Bus: 10 Rules to Fuel Your Life, Work, and Team with Positive Energy by Jon Gordon

2. Who is one person you'd want to hear as a guest on this podcast? Billy Donovan

3. What's one area you're looking to improve in over the next year? Improve in end of game execution with simplicity.

4. What's popular advice you hear people say that you think is wrong? You have to recruit great players. No — you need to recruit the right players for your head coach and the program.

5. What advice do you have for young coaches who are listening to this? Work hard, value relationships you have with other staff members, and embrace your current role.

6. What's the darkest moment you experienced professionally and how did you overcome it? Struggling to have the right culture during his first two years at UMass and got through it by seeking advice and talking to people.

"That's what Coach Donovan does, he treats everyone the right way."

"Coach Donovan hired me back at Florida because during my time there I took a tremendous amount of pride in establishing relationships, treating people the right way, and working hard."

"Did I get hired as a head coach because I was the best assistant coach in the country? No. I got hired as a head coach because of the success we were having at Florida. Success breeds opportunity."

"The instilling of your culture, the getting everybody to buy into your culture, that's what you have to spend more time on the first year you take over a job, especially a job that's a rebuild situation, and you can't sacrifice anything for the ball to go into the basket."

"You have to be true to yourself. Who are you? What are the things you value? How do you want things to operate every single day?"

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My guest today is Kevin Eastman, a corporate and sports team speaker and previously spent 13 years in the NBA as both a coach and executive. He was a top assistant to Doc Rivers with the 2008 NBA World Championship Boston Celtics, and most recently served as an assistant coach and Vice President of Basketball Operations with the Los Angeles Clippers. He's also the author of Why The Best Are The Best: 25 Powerful Words That Impact, Inspire, And Define Champions.

In this episode, we discuss how his passion for learning helped him break into the NBA, what makes Doc Rivers such a successful coach, the mentor/mentee relationship between Doc Rivers and Ty Lue, how Ray Allen's preparation led him to become one of the best 3-point shooters of all-time, and the examples of extraordinary leadership he has seen during his corporate consulting work.

(1:36) - Episode begins with Kevin's background

(7:15) - How Doc Rivers handled the first team meeting with the Boston Celtics after they traded for Kevin Garnett & Ray Allen

(11:00) - How Doc Rivers builds his staffs with elite assistants who "didn't know it all"

(13:50) - The mentor/mentee relationship between Doc Rivers & Ty Lue (read a great article on this here) & how Ty Lue worked hard to become a great coach

(25:15) - What coaches should be aware of when trying to get a job or interviewing

(34:45) - Ray Allen's preparation before every game in his career

(43:45) - Why accountability is so important and how Doc Rivers & Kevin Garnett exemplified that

(46:30) - How the Boston Celtics' players all sacrificed

(49:00) - How to get your players to sacrifice more if it isn't in their DNA

(53:45) - The difference between a winner's ego and loser's ego

(56:25) - Must listen story of how Doc Rivers motivated the Celtics during the 2010 season by hiding $2,800 in the Staples Center after beating the L.A. Lakers during the regular season

(1:01:18) - Examples of leadership he's seen during his corporate consulting work

(1:03:20) - Where to follow Kevin Eastman: Twitter | Website | Book

(1:05:40) - How he has utilized time during COVID to slow down

(1:11:45) — End of episode questions

1. What's 1 book every coach should read?

• Win Forever: Live, Work and Play Like A Champion

2. Who is one person you'd want to hear as a guest on this podcast?

• Miami Heat Head Coach Erik Spoelstra & L.A. Clippers President of Basketball Operations Lawrence Frank

3. What's one area you're looking to improve in over the next year?

• Refine his messaging in his public speaking and improve the depth of some of his relationships

4. What's popular advice you hear people say that you think is wrong?

• The truth hurts

5. What advice do you have for young coaches who are listening to this?

• Go deeper into your craft, study it more, and be incredibly competent with your X's & O's. Also, think of adjustments you may need to make during games when you watch them.

6. What's the darkest moment you experienced professionally and how did you overcome it?

• He doesn't view things that happen in life as dark, they're just things that happened you have to stop, think about what was your part in that happening, and move on.

"The most successful people in the world have a curiosity gene and know that they don't know it all."

"Preparation trumps pressure. You'll have butterflies when you really, really prepare well. You'll have fear when you're not prepared well."

"There are two types of people in this world: there are know-it-alls, and there are learn-it-alls."

"Once you know your leader believes, it's a little easier for you to believe."

"I believe that you should bring your winner's ego to everything that you do because it gives you confidence."

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My guest today is Jim Schlossnagle, the head baseball coach at TCU. Since joining TCU in 2003, he has taken the program to new heights by making the College World Series five times in the last 10 years, and was named National Coach of the Year in 2010 and 2016.

In this episode, he explains why he focuses so much on the mental aspect of the game with his players (he even brings in a sports psychologist to meet with his team every week), why he chose to develop a mission statement and explicitly state three core values for his program, why he chose to not have team meetings after games, and what it was like to be chosen as the coach of Team USA.

(1:22) — How he describes his coaching philosophy

(5:42) — The program's mission statement and three core values

(13:00) — Why he hired a sports psychologist to work with his players

(25:55) — Making the College World Series four times since 2010

(31:20) — Why he doesn't allow players to bring their phones into the baseball facilities

(37:55) — How he's evolved as a coach over his career

(47:38) — His experience with Team USA

(53:38) — How his faith influences his coaching

(56:28) — Handling work/life balance and the stress of the job

(1:01:15) — End of episode questions

1. What's 1 book every coach should read?

• The Compound Effect: Jumpstart Your Income, Your Life, Your Success by Darren Hardy

2. Who is one person you'd want to hear as a guest on this podcast? Nick Saban

3. What's one area you're looking to improve in over the next year? Be more consistent with his sleep

4. What's popular advice you hear people say that you think is wrong? Not that it's advice that's wrong, but the most successful coaches always say they wish they had enjoyed the journey more but there's a reason they were successful and maybe it's because they were so driven.

5. What advice do you have for young coaches who are listening to this? Be a life-long learner

6. What's the darkest moment you experienced professionally and how did you overcome it? His entire 2013 season, he did a poor job of managing the program that season and he wished he addressed the staff issues more on the front end.

"How do you anything is how you do everything."

"There's only ever been one perfect guy in the history of the planet and they nailed him to the cross."

"As the head coach I'm very aware of what's going on from an X&O's standpoint, and certainly have input in all those and ultimately it's on my shoulders, but I get to spend a lot of my time on relationships, culture, and finding unique ways to teach the new players that."

"You want to be a program that's real consistent with everything that you can control that gives you the best chance every single year. And once you get into those settings, then it comes down to how you can control your emotions and how you play. We're a firm believer that it's never about the best team; it's only about the team that plays the best."

"My job is really character and leadership development of young people through the sport of baseball."

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My guest today is Fran Fraschilla, a college basketball analyst for ESPN and former Division I basketball coach.

In this episode we discuss his career path as a head coach, with stops at Manhattan, St. Johns and New Mexico. We hear what it was like to coach at St. Johns with players like Ron Artest and Felipe Lopez, what he wishes he had done differently as a head coach, and why he made the conscious decision to stay at ESPN after he left New Mexico. We also learn some of the most interesting things he's witnessed when calling college games for ESPN and getting all access to shoot-arounds and practices of some of the most successful programs, and what led him to become ESPN's go-to guy on international basketball prospects for the NBA Draft.

Show Notes:

(1:25) — Episode begins with starting his head-coaching career at Manhattan at the age of 34

(3:05) — What surprised him when he became a head coach for the first time

(5:02) — His time as head coach at St. John's

(11:05) — Handling being fired from St. John's

(15:00) — Coaching players like Felipe Lopez and Ron Artest at St. John's

(19:02) — His favorite moments as a head coach

(22:50) — His belief in coaching etiquette

(25:10) — What led him to start his career with ESPN

(31:48) — The best things he's seen coaches do at shoot-arounds

(36:10) — Some of different ways he's seen coaches handle practices

(40:05) — Watching coaches make adjustments during games

(41:33) — How he became the international basketball scout for ESPN

(46:35) — What led foreign coaches to look at the basketball game differently than U.S. coaches

(49:08) — How he evaluates foreign prospects who aren't seen as often as college players

(54:45) — How he directs his learning

(57:05) — What basketball has meant to him personally

(59:20) — End of episode questions

End of Episode Questions:

1. What's 1 book every coach should read?

• Mindset: The New Psychology of Success by Carol Dweck
• The Dynasty by Jeff Bendict
• Grit: The Power of Passion and Perseverance by Angela Duckworth
• The Carolina Way: Leadership Lessons from a Life in Coaching by Dean Smith
• The Education of a Coach by David Halberstam

2. Who is one person you'd want to hear as a guest on this podcast? Hubie Brown

3. What's one area you're looking to improve in over the next year? Being a better human being

4. What's popular advice you hear people say that you think is wrong? Live in the moment

5. What advice do you have for young coaches who are listening to this? Grit, growth mindset, and servant leadership

6. What's the darkest moment you experienced professionally and how did you overcome it? When he was fired from St. John's, and overcame it by having faith and trusting there was a plan for him

Favorite Quotes:

"When you are starting out in the coaching profession and become a young head coach, you have to have a board of directors. You have to have 3 or 4 people in your life that can help you make tough decisions."

"I think if you have a well coached team, you can leave practice for 2 or 3 days and there wouldn't be any slippage based on what you've taught them about the culture of practices."

"I think shoot-arounds are an art-form. I've seen so many good ones, I don't think there's one way to do it."

"Gameday has to be a time when the team has to be focused and relaxed because if you haven't prepared for the opponent in the days leading up to that game, there's no pre-game speech, there's no Bill Belichick speech that you can make, there's nothing you can do in practice that day that can get you ready for the opponent. And being too intense and over the top intensity wise is not the answer."

"I think it's just absolutely necessary to be somebody who has an open mind to continue willing to get better."

My guest today is Tim Corbin, the head baseball coach at Vanderbilt University. Coach Corbin has built Vanderbilt into one of the most prominent programs in college baseball, making the College World Series four times and winning the National Championship in both 2014 and 2019. He's also coached 15 players at Vanderbilt who ended up being selected in the first round in the MLB draft, including David Price, Sonny Gray, and Walker Buehler.

In this episode we learn why he made the Vanderbilt baseball team become the first college baseball program to build an alumni locker room, classroom, and nutrition center. We also discuss why he doesn't believe in goals, what he looks for when recruiting players, and his relationship with other elite coaches including Penn State football coach James Franklin. Finally, we hear how he endured the tragic death of Vanderbilt freshman and former 1st round draft pick Donny Everett in 2016 right before the post-season, and what he learned about grief and resiliency.

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(1:34) — What he focused on when he was first hired at Vanderbilt in 2003

(3:05) — What standards and values he prioritizes

(4:20 )— Why 60% of his former players contributed to a fundraiser for baseball facilities in 2016 (the national average is 2–3%)

(6:45) — Why he prioritized building an alumni locker room, nutrition center, and classroom for his team

(10:52) — What he looks for in prospects when recruiting

(15:32 )— What common traits his best players have had

(19:08) — How he ensures all 40 players put the team first

(21:45 )— What "VandyBoys" stands for

(23:35 )— Why he doesn't have slogans and quotes for the program

(25:40) — Why he doesn't have goals for individual players and the team

(27:40) — How he handled the tragic passing of his player Donny Everett in 2016

(33:06) — The experience of coaching for Team USA

(37:00 )— His relationship with University of Michigan head baseball coach, Erik Bakich

(39:55) — His relationship with Penn St. football coach, James Franklin

(41:38) — The impact of winning two national championships

(44:35) — His thoughts on personal growth

(47:00) — End of episode questions

1. What's 1 book every coach should read? He doesn't read a lot of books, prefers to listen to Jim Rome and podcasts like Finding Mastery by Michael Gervais
2. Who is one person you'd want to hear as a guest on this podcast? Geno Auriemma, Brad Stevens, Erik Spoelstra, Billy Donovan, Chip Kelly
3. What's one area you're looking to improve in over the next year? Keeping his mind sharp and staying relevant to the players
4. What's popular advice you hear people say that you think is wrong? When someone says, "this is a grind," he disagrees. The grind is a terminal illness; this is a sport and he is being paid to coach college baseball.
5. What advice do you have for young coaches who are listening to this? Whatever position you are in, make it the best you possibly can. Do whatever you can to make the experience and the environment as good as you possibly can. Modeling what you do and being the greatest form of integrity is very important as a teacher and a coach.
6. What's the darkest moment you experienced professionally and how did you overcome it? Handling the passing of his player, Donny Everett, and he leaned on his wife to get through it. He emphasizes the importance of having a life partner who can challenge and help you throughout your life.

Favorite Quotes:

"I think rules are for people who can't follow directions; I think standards are for people who aspire to do special things."

"Every choice has a consequence, and those consequences have outcomes. And I think when it gets down to it, it's trying to help them with those decision-making processes they have during the course of day. And those decisions are small in nature but they lead to more positive outcomes if you do them well."

"I think a lot of the time goals setup expectations and expectations get us in trouble sometimes. If you're putting parameters around your life, you're just expecting life to move in a directional, certain way, and that's just not the way it is."

"Those thoughts of winning and the torturous thinking of winning is more debilitating than prospering. I've found it not to be healthy in so many different ways."

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The biggest takeaway from my seven years working under Billy Donovan at the University of Florida is that the most successful are the ones who are committed to their own growth. They never stop learning and trying to make themselves better.

This show will bring you interviews with the world's most-respected coaches, best-selling authors, and top leaders to give you insight into their philosophies, lessons, and mindsets for you to apply to your own.

Some of the top coaches subscribe to the Coaching Coaches newsletter, join them by subscribing here http://www.coachingcoaches.substack.com/subscribe

This show will bring you interviews with the world’s most-respected coaches, best-selling authors, & top leaders to give you insight into their philosophies, lessons, & mindsets.

Subscribe to the newsletter here: coachingcoaches.substack.com/subscribe