Cocktail Theology

What does it mean to be "living for heaven" when you believe heaven is not a lot different from Beverly Hills--but that you'll be the one living there? We discuss that, plus the fine art of the Gimlet, in Episode 20: Motives & Mansions.

Music Credits

"Meant To Be" Words & music by Benton Stokes & Matthew Garinger. 

Our theme music: “Moving On (Feels Pretty Good)”. Words & music by Benton Stokes. Available on Grace & Gravity  (CD on BentonStokes.com; digitally on Amazon and iTunes)

Copyright 2018 Songs From the Basement (BMI).  All Rights Reserved. Used by Permission.

As the Teen Titans movie (2018) taught us, every superhero needs an arch-nemesis. But what if that superhero is God? Or you? Tune in for our discussion of comics, heroes, and the shadow side of being a person.

Music Credits

"Love Is Like" Words & music by Benton Stokes and Dennis Dearing. Available on Turn Off The Moon. (CD on BentonStokes.com; digitally on Amazon and iTunes)

Our theme music: “Moving On (Feels Pretty Good)”. Words & music by Benton Stokes. Available on Grace & Gravity  (CD on BentonStokes.com; digitally on Amazon and iTunes)

Copyright 2018 Songs From the Basement (BMI).  All Rights Reserved. Used by Permission.

What’s your experience of your shadow side? Do you believe God and Satan are locked in an eternal battle? Tell us what you have experienced or believe, especially if it’s different than what we say. Or, if there’s an arch-nemesis/hero pairing that you love or that you relate to, tell us about it!  

Comment at www.cocktailtheology.com, or email us, or stalk us on all the public media.

If you like what we do:

• Please share us with your friends; review us on iTunes and Stitcher.
• Give to the continuation of our work on Patreon (http://www.patreon.com/cocktailtheology)
• And, especially, let us know what you think! We want to learn from you: [email protected]

Synopsis

A recent Pew Research study declared that most American Christians go to church to grow closer to God. A solid third don't go because they don't like religious services.

We're not sure about either one of those statements. 

Today’s Cocktail: Evan Williams Black & Monin Blood Orange Syrup

Music Credits

"Love Tonight" Music by Benton Stokes & Dennis Dearing.

Our theme music: “Moving On (Feels Pretty Good)”. Words & music by Benton Stokes. Available on Grace & Gravity  (CD on BentonStokes.com; digitally on Amazon and iTunes)

Copyright 2018 Songs From the Basement (BMI).  All Rights Reserved. Used by Permission.

WE WANT TO KNOW: Where do you go when the churches are closed? When do you feel closest to God, and when do you feel closest to God with other people? Why do you go to worship, and if you’re a pastor, why you want people to come?

What is the role of politics in the pulpit, when one is concerned with the kind of person one is becoming?

Should pastors use their pulpits to speak to issues of the day?

And, really, what is the difference between personal and political?

Music Credits

"The Chains Of Maybe" Words & music by Benton Stokes. Available on Turn Off The Moon. (CD on BentonStokes.com; digitally on Amazon and iTunes)

Our theme music: “Moving On (Feels Pretty Good)”. Words & music by Benton Stokes. Available on Grace & Gravity  (CD on BentonStokes.com; digitally on Amazon and iTunes)

Copyright 2018 Songs From the Basement (BMI).  All Rights Reserved. Used by Permission.

Become a Big Tipper, Regular, or Executive Producer (and receive our thanks & swag) on Patreon. 

Timestamp Info

0-1:30 In the dark. With candles. Without coffee, but with Lionel Richie.

1:30-2:50  What is the role of politics in the pulpit, when one is concerned with the kind of person one is becoming?

2:50-10:00  Should pastors use their pulpits to speak to issues of the day? The (often-earned) power of the pastor in the congregation. Churches and denominations take public positions; must the pastor toe that line? What about when the pastor’s core convictions shift, and diverge from that of the congregation or the denomination? God’s world is larger than one issue, as are people’s lives.

10:00-15:35 The role of the pastor as shepherd, prophet, and priest. How do pastors serve as prophets yet maintain personal integrity—and emulate the life of Jesus? The problem of the desire for power when one is following the way of Jesus. How does the ongoing relationship between pastor & people, and the character of the pastor, affect what is appropriate and acceptable for the pastor to address?

15:35-32:00  When congregations say they don’t want politics, it’s because they don’t hear their own positions as “political.” Political is just us. The pastor’s personal convictions should determine the pastor’s leadership, along with the pastor’s behavior. Personal vs. political, and the politics of replacing the duct-taped red carpet in Elane’s church. The pastor’s personal relationship with God vs being an employee of the congregation or the denomination.

32:00-34:13 When we are mostly concerned about the people we become, how we do what we do is most important.

Have you experienced pastoral bullying? The appropriate use of the pulpit? Tell us what you have experienced or believe, especially if it’s different than what we say. Comment at www.cocktailtheology.com, or email us, or stalk us on all the public media.

Join us October 20, 2018 for our one-day retreat (http://www.reallyrealgod.com), and on social media.

If you like what we do:

• Please share us with your friends; review us on iTunes and Stitcher.
• Give to the continuation of our work on Patreon (http://www.patreon.com/cocktailtheology)
• And, especially, let us know what you think! We want to learn from you: [email protected].

Why is it that nearly everyone identifies with the prodigal son?

Why do we feel like outcasts, disappointments, failures?

Find out!

Music Credits

"Unreal" Words & music by Benton Stokes. Available on Grace & Gravity. (CD on BentonStokes.com; digitally on Amazon and iTunes)

Our theme music: “Moving On (Feels Pretty Good)”. Words & music by Benton Stokes. Available on Grace & Gravity  (CD on BentonStokes.com; digitally on Amazon and iTunes)

Copyright 2018 Songs From the Basement (BMI).  All Rights Reserved. Used by Permission.

Become a Big Tipper, Regular, or Executive Producer (and receive our thanks & swag) on Patreon. 

Timestamp Info

0-2:11  Our new cocktail (with roses!) will be in the digital mixology guide, and also in the softbound version, available for appropriate monthly giving, through our Patreon site: www.patreon.com/cocktailtheology.  Elane and Benton consider an alternate career as bartenders.

2:11-8:50  The mystery of familial relationships: most people think of ourselves as the black sheep of the family. In the story of the prodigal son (Luke 15), it’s with the younger son. Why do we think of ourselves as outsiders, or as people who are something so wrong that we are not unacceptable? Why do we feel like the sum of our mistakes?

8:50-10:50  Our October 20, 2018 retreat (Discover The Really Real God You Always Hoped Existed) helps people think about their own views, and meet the God they think they believe in (but usually don’t): the God who accepts them, really, right now.  What about “God Is Love (Except For You)”? The fear of getting kicked out of the family.

10:50- 17:00 The younger son feels guilty but not ashamed. Elane explains the difference between shame and guilt…and for most of us, our outcast-ness is about shame. We cannot hide from God, because God (really) knows us and (really) loves us. The revelation that Elane feels shame about inviting herself over to people’s houses, including Benton’s, and so do all those folks who would never dream of inviting themselves.  How powerful is the fear of rejection!

17:00-27:30  Our feelings about ourselves and about God are layered. Yet the Bible is about guilt—what you do—rather than shame—who you are. Shame/guilt researcher Brené Brown. Would we rather starve than ask for help?  In the parable, there’s no doubt in the prodigal’s mind that his father will accept him back. Repentance vs. remorse vs. resentment, and why Jesus tells this story at all. Why do we feel ashamed, so much of the time?

27:30-36:00  Our deep desire to be part of, and the fear of return.  The child of “a low-down, dirty drunk” becomes terrified when the social group is small (and everyone knows you and your dad). No wonder we think God rejects us, and why we don’t feel forgiven when we confess and ask for forgiveness: we feel as if we are bad, rather than do bad. The conflict between our self-image and our actions. What does X action say about who I am?  Why “coming out” is the language of pressing past shame.

36:00-38:30  We are not black sheep. We are sheep who have made poor choices. None of us is a black sheep. Our “father God” will always take us in—and a lot of people will, too.

38:30-40:28  Join us October 20 for our one-day retreat (http://www.reallyrealgod.com), and on social media. Share us with your friends; review us on iTunes and Stitcher. Subscribe. And, especially, let us know what you think! We want to learn from you.

When good-hearted Jesus-followers are embarrassed to be called “Christians,” what does that say about Christianity? Elane and Benton discuss what it means to be “a Christian,” what Christianity is about, and whether worldly success has ruined the whole enterprise.

Music Credits

"Blue" Words & music by Benton Stokes & Janine Smith. Available on Grace & Gravity  (CD on BentonStokes.com; digitally on Amazon and iTunes)

Our theme music: “Moving On (Feels Pretty Good)”. Words & music by Benton Stokes. Available on Grace & Gravity  (CD on BentonStokes.com; digitally on Amazon and iTunes)

Copyright 2018 Songs From the Basement (BMI).  All Rights Reserved. Used by Permission.

Tonight’s cocktail: Cold sober coffee

If you appreciate this kind of challenging, thought-provoking conversation, we hope you’ll support us by sharing this podcast with others, subscribing to Cocktail Theology, or giving monthly through Patreon.

We know we aren’t alone in this, and you’re not alone either. Please be in touch—we want to support you too.

Elane interviews Doug Pagitt of VoteCommonGood.com about the similar challenges of running ultramarathons and changing the world.

Doug is founding pastor of Solomon's Porch in Minneapolis and is the host of "Now We're Talkin' With Doug Pagitt." Learn more at dougpagitt.com and votecommongood.com.

Music Credits

"Now" Words & music by Benton Stokes. Available on Turn Off The Moon (CD on BentonStokes.com; digitally on Amazon and iTunes)

Our theme music: “Moving On (Feels Pretty Good)”. Words & music by Benton Stokes. Available on Grace & Gravity  (CD on BentonStokes.com; digitally on Amazon and iTunes)

Copyright 2018 Songs From the Basement (BMI).  All Rights Reserved. Used by Permission.

Become a Big Tipper, Regular, or Executive Producer (and receive our thanks & swag) on Patreon. 

Timestamp Info

0-4:50 Our weekend at Wild Goose, including conversations with post-evangelicals, John Pavlovitz, Jen Hatmaker, Brian McLaren, Frank Schaeffer, Diana Butler Bass, Randall Balmer, and Trey Pearson. The unholy alliance between Empire & Christianity. Benton’s post-Evangelical view of Wild Goose vs. Elane’s liberal-Christianity view of the same event.

4:50-5:50 Our pirate cocktail: The Anne Bonny—rum, fresh tangerine juice, triple sec, fresh lime juice, orange bitters.

5:50-11:00 Introduction of Doug Pagitt by fan girl Elane. Solomon’s Porch, the Emergent Church, quantum physics, and Pagitt’s influence on Elane’s pastoring. Shelley Pagitt and Yoga Sanctuary’s new training program for teachers (yogasanctuarympls.com).  The aim of Vote Common Good (votecommongood.com) to flip Congress for the Common Good.

11:00-15:00 Doug Pagitt on being affably intense and an Enneagram 8, running ultramarathons, and the long run for the common good. Not taking a break from yourself in exercise or worship.

15:00-21:00 What happens when you reach a big goal, like running an ultramarathon…or transforming Christianity…or influencing the collective life of humanity. The power of the narratives of the Christian story. How those can change the current American reality that damages people, politically and religiously.

21:00-31:00 Pagitt’s nerdy interests in politics and religion. Serving the common good by barnstorming the country to move voters to flip Congress. It is up to the people to change the status quo. “When you live in a time when there’s big social issues, you don’t do nothin’.” Invoking traditionally Republican religious voters to vote their actual, bleeding-heart-conservative consciences, which tend to the charitable.

The loss of the concept of the common good. The role of abusive and controlling pastors in forming people who are ready to be abused and controlled by a political leader. The role of fashionable celebrity leaders in taking power from people.

31:00-36:00 Making a statement by running for President in every election to remind us that the President is just one of the By The People people. The body of Christ. Voting for the common good by writing in “common good” or simply not voting, or voting for the democratic candidate.

Barnstorming 46 congressional districts in 25 states via  caravan, September 6-November 6. Involvement is needed, online,  in the caravan, and on the ground, as is financial support. Visit www.votecommongood.com to sign up!

36:00-40:40 Benton reflects on Pagitt’s thoughtful-yet-not-angry insight into current American politics. Going for long-road goals.

Find Doug Pagitt at SolomonsPorch.com, DougPagitt.com, GreaterThingsFoundation.org.

Support Cocktail Theology and School For Seekers by giving at Patreon.com/CocktailTheology, and by subscribing to Cocktail Theology.

Email us with comments & suggestions at [email protected].

Benton and Elane discuss the differences among the meanings of “trespasses” “debts” and “sins” in the Lord’s Prayer, and why that might mean that everyone is actually praying a different prayer.

Music Credits

"Sitting On The Edge Of Your World" Words & music by Benton Stokes. Available on Turn Off The Moon (CD on BentonStokes.com; digitally on Amazon and iTunes)

Our theme music: “Moving On (Feels Pretty Good)”. Words & music by Benton Stokes. Available on Grace & Gravity  (CD on BentonStokes.com; digitally on Amazon and iTunes)

Copyright 2018 Songs From the Basement (BMI).  All Rights Reserved. Used by Permission.

Tonight’s Cocktail 

The Summitt—Vodka, lemon juice, triple sec, a lot of bitters, and bergamot syrup—named by Big Tipper Marti Milliken. 

Tell us about what forgiveness feels like for you, or what being forgiven is like for you.  Write in the comments on cocktailtheology.com, email us ([email protected]), or find us in social media (school4seekers on Instagram and Twitter; cocktailtheolog on Twitter).

Help others find us! Write a review on iTunes, or have a listening party…with cocktails, of course.

In episode 12, Benton talks with Greg Richardson (aka The Strategic Monk) -- blogger on contemplative practice on Patheos, Art Of Craft columnist for dabelly.com, and spiritual director and consultant at strategicmonk.com -- about spiritual practice, craft beer, contemplation, and when to leave church.

Music Credits

Confessions Of A Lesser Me Words & music by Benton Stokes.  Available on Grace & Gravity at http://www.bentonstokesmusic.com.

Copyright 2018 Songs From the Basement (BMI).  All Rights Reserved. Used by Permission.

Become A Regular Supporter, help us hire an engineer, and receive our thanks & swag on Patreon. 

Timestamp Info

0-2:15 Introduction of our guest Greg Richardson, blogger on contemplative practice on Patheos, Art Of Craft columnist for dabelly.com, spiritual director and consultant at strategicmonk.com. Plus, all the usual social media as strategicmonk.

2:15-7:14  Greg’s story of growing up to be a “right answer” guy, and while that was great for being a criminal prosecutor, it didn’t serve him in becoming himself.  Why he became a lawyer: Perry Mason and presidential aspirations.

7:14- 11:50 When reality smacked into Greg: the theft of tires from a salvage yard, and the path to spiritual direction. California girls, Pasadena, the Rose Bowl, and the losing Wisconsin team.

11:50-18:30  How the practice of your faith—your spirituality—can change. The role of a spiritual director, as Greg practices: deep listening, asking questions, laughing and crying, Where counselors or therapists help you move toward an image of healthy or right; spiritual directors provide insight and practices to help you uncover new realities and openness. Spiritual practice vs spiritual discipline.

18:30-19:40 Where are you closest to God? Where is the sacred for you? When to go back to church, and when not to. Sacred is everywhere.

19:40-29:40  Interior stillness and solitude. Why it takes so long to get your head quiet, and how centering prayer teaches the rhythm, familiarity, and viewpoint of interior stillness. Greg’s experience as a Benedictine oblate as going home to silence. Stillness is within, and brings us back to ourselves.

29:40-37:00  How do you encourage community and find it for yourself? Check out Greg’s #wordstoliveby chat on Twitter Sundays, 6 p.m. Pacific. The Dream of God by Verna Dozier distinguishes between the institution of church and the practice of following Jesus. The apparent danger to others of Christian participation in  civil spiritual conversation.  Integrating spirituality into daily routine.

37:00-44:30  Greg schools Benton on beer, starting with the Sonoran White Chocolate Ale and Left Hand’s Nitro Milk Stout. The ins and outs of pilsners, IPAs, stouts, and porters, and nursing mothers in England. What craft beer is, maybe, and Greg’s dabelly.com column The Art Of Craft, on the spiritual aspects of brewing.

44:30-47:00 Benton fesses up to having more than one beer during the interview.

Show us the love by sharing Cocktail Theology with your friends, subscribing (which raises our visibility), and supporting us on a monthly basis through Patreon.com/cocktailtheology.  We would love to hire a professional engineer, which would make your listening even better!

Benton and Elane discuss the meaning of love, the problem of pronouns, and why God is in the kind of love that sticks. (As well as caps, hats, Benton’s discomfort with being adored, and Elane’s verbal demonstration of her unhipness.)

Wine of the night: Prophecy Red Blend, delicious, beautiful label, great price point. 

Music Credits

"Love Is A Dirty Word" Words & music by Benton Stokes. Available on Turn Off The Moon (CD on BentonStokes.com; digitally on Amazon and iTunes)

Copyright 2018 Songs From the Basement (BMI).  All Rights Reserved. Used by Permission.

Become A Regular Supporter (and receive our thanks & swag) on Patreon. 

Email us at [email protected].