Collaborative Hardball

In this powerful conversation, I sit down with William Ury, one of the world’s leading experts on negotiation, conflict resolution, and peacebuilding. 

William co-founded the Program on Negotiation at Harvard and co-authored Getting to Yes, one of the most influential books ever written on negotiation. He has spent more than 40 years mediating and advising some of the world’s most difficult conflicts. His work has profoundly influenced me, including his book Getting to Peace, which inspired my first podcast, the Peacebuilding Podcast.

In this episode, we go much deeper than negotiation tactics. Together, we explore The Third Side—an idea that while it takes two sides to fight, it takes a third side to help stop the conflict. We talk about why humans may be more collaborative than we realize, the power of listening and slowing down, how circles can create containers for productive conflict, the special role women can play as “third siders,” and how every conflict conversation is also a cultural act: a choice about the kind of world we want to create. 

We also confront some of the biggest challenges of our moment—from AI and climate change to the broader polycrisis threatening our collective future. 

About William Ury: 

William Ury’s passion is helping people, organizations, and nations get to yes. His training is in anthropology, his practice is in mediation, and his mission is peace. He is one of the world’s best-known experts on negotiation, and author of Getting to Yes and most recently of POSSIBLE: How We Survive (and Thrive) in an Age of Conflict. Ury has served as a negotiation adviser and mediator in conflicts ranging from coal mine strikes to family feuds to wars in the Middle East, Colombia, Korea, and Ukraine. Ury lives in Colorado where he loves to hike in the mountains. 

More from William Ury: 

Website: https://www.williamury.com/ 

More from Susan Coleman: 

Website: https://www.susancoleman.global/ 

LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/susanwcoleman 

Substack: https://substack.com/@susancolemanglobal 

Facebook: https://facebook.com/susancolemanglobal 

Instagram: https://instagram.com/susanwcoleman 

Purchase the book, Collaborative Hardball: Using the Power of a New Negotiation as Women to Change the World https://a.co/d/08AWQWsC

Produced by: Rome Esmaili

https://www.lumen-vision-sound.com/podcasts

We reflect on how the world has changed since our original 2018 conversation (Ep. 31 of the Peacebuilding Podcast), and consider the intensifying global challenges we face alongside powerful reasons for hope: the growing influence of Indigenous wisdom, deeper understanding of trauma, the rise of renewable energy, and increasing awareness of the systems of patriarchy that shape our lives and institutions.

Drawing on decades of experience negotiating with political leaders, military officials, and communities affected by violence, Scilla shares practical tools for navigating conflict with clarity and presence. She explains why staying grounded through the breath and listening deeply enough to truly reflect what others are saying can transform even the most difficult conversations. A remarkable story from a meeting with a Chinese military general in Beijing reveals the surprising power of empathic listening to shift hostility into genuine dialogue.

We also explore the difference between collaborative and competitive negotiation, why listening for underlying needs is more effective than arguing over positions, how anger can reveal what we care most about, and the essential role women have played in peacebuilding—from Northern Ireland to the Greenham Common peace movement. This conversation is an invitation to see conflict not as something to avoid, but as an opportunity for connection, creativity, and lasting change.

More from Scilla: 

Website: https://scillaelworthy.com/ 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/scilla-elworthy-b79244161/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/scilla_elworthy/ 

TED Talks: https://www.ted.com/speakers/scilla_elworthy 

More from Susan Coleman: 

Website: https://www.susancoleman.global/ 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/susanwcoleman/ 

Substack: https://substack.com/@susancolemanglobal 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/susanwcoleman 

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/susancolemanglobal 

Purchase the book, Collaborative Hardball: Using the Power of a New Negotiation as Women to Change the World https://a.co/d/08AWQWsC

Episode Chapters:

00:00 Welcome and Setup

00:51 Why Conflict Matters

02:53 Meet Scilla Elworthy

04:27 Host Background and Roots

07:54 Eight Years Later

09:08 Bleak Trends and Patriarchy

11:03 Signs of Hope and Change

13:53 Women and Conflict Skills

16:29 Breathe for Authority

17:25 Listen to Disarm Bullying

18:39 Beijing General Story

21:49 Great Hall Arrival Twist

23:01 Embodied Presence in Conflict

23:50 Cake and Aftermath

24:14 Humanizing the Other

24:38 Listening Without Overlistening

25:26 Reflecting Back in Conflict

27:18 Needs Over Positions

29:45 Women as Peacebuilders

30:59 Stories of Women Stopping Wars

34:09 Courage to Speak Up

36:31 Sisterhood and Self Belief

41:35 Heart Led Courage Practice

42:56 Closing and Next Steps

Produced by: Rome Esmaili

https://www.lumen-vision-sound.com/podcasts

For this conversation, I am joined by Starhawk, a writer, activist, permaculture designer, teacher, and leading voice in eco-feminism and earth-based spirituality. I have long admired her ability to connect history, spirituality, ecology, power, and social change. She brings a depth of knowledge to the question ‘where did patriarchy come from’? 

We trace some of its roots through the rise of organized warfare, conquest, hierarchy, and cultures built around domination. We also explore the costs of patriarchy for all of us: Women have been diminished, controlled, and conditioned to question our divinity and authority. Men have been cut off from tenderness, vulnerability, care, and many of the qualities that make all of us fully human. 

The result is a power-over paradigm that continues to shape our politics, relationships, conflicts, institutions, and negotiations. But patriarchy is not inevitable. Human beings have organized themselves differently before, and we can do so again. 

So, we turn to what matters most now? What kind of world do we want to build together? Because dismantling domination requires more than resisting what is wrong. It asks us to develop a compelling vision of what could be right. A culture rooted in partnership with each other and the entire living world. Power-with rather than power-over. Communities capable of holding differences without escalating conflict into violence. And systems that value creativity and all life. 

Starhawk is the author of thirteen books, including The Spiral Dance, The Earth Path, The Empowerment Manual: A Guide for Collaborative Groups and, most recently, The Movement We Need (Substack). She also directs Earth Activist Training, where she teaches regenerative design, organizing, activism, and social permaculture. 

Website: http://starhawk.org/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/starhawk_spiral 

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/StarhawkAuthor/ Substack: 

http://Starhawk.substack.com Earth Activist Training: http://earthactivisttraining.com/ 

More from Susan Coleman: 

Purchase Collaborative Hardball, the book: https://a.co/d/08AWQWsC

Website: https://www.susancoleman.global/ 

LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/susanwcoleman 

Substack: https://substack.com/@susancolemanglobal 

Instagram: https://instagram.com/susanwcoleman 

Facebook: https://facebook.com/susancolemanglobal 

Produced by: Rome Esmaili

https://www.lumen-vision-sound.com/podcasts

From gender based disadvantages and externally imposed childhood limitations, to high self worth and "bigger and better" trades, this discussion zooms in on what it is to be a woman empowered in actions, influence, and negotiation. Zoe’s approach to influence aligns with a vision of gender equality, framing it not as control or domination but as something generous, human, and expansive. Although unplanned, our conversation quickly becomes personal, reinforcing the eternal truth that meaningful change starts at home. Our discussion also challenges transactional thinking and highlights how limiting assumptions about others can shrink what’s possible. 

Key Takeaways:

I hope you enjoy, and please like, share, and subscribe to my channel for more empowering content.

Zoe Chance is a Yale professor and bestselling author of Influence Is Your Superpower (published in 28 languages). Her work has shaped food policy at Google, climate negotiations at the UN and White House, and leadership at Fortune 500 companies. Before academia, she managed $200M of the Barbie brand at Mattel.

More from Zoe:

Website: https://www.zoechance.com/

Buy her book here: https://www.amazon.com/Influence-Your-Superpower-Science-Sparking/dp/198485433X

More from Susan:

Produced by: Rome Esmaili

https://www.lumen-vision-sound.com/podcasts

In this introductory episode, we explore how women and allies can use the power of a New Negotiation to create more peaceful and sustainable solutions at home, at work, and in the world. Stay tuned for more!

Connect & Learn More:

Website: ⁠https://www.susancoleman.global/⁠

Substack: ⁠https://substack.com/@susancolemanglobal⁠

Instagram: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/susanwcoleman/⁠

Produced by: Rome Esmaili

https://www.lumen-vision-sound.com/podcasts