Come and Take It: The Eminent Domain Podcast

Bobby interviews Nick Atwood, a trial lawyer with Ritchie Rock & Atwood in Shawnee, Oklahoma. Bobby and Nick discuss the procedural process for ED cases in Oklahoma, a protracted and unique six-year case that Nick recently tried against the Oklahoma Turnpike Authority, attorneys' fees issues under OK law, and how to work with clients.

Throughout, Bobby asks Nick detailed discovery, procedure, and trial strategy questions, including how to prepare clients for taking the stand, how to handle a landowner client whose valuation is higher than the appraiser, and negotiating with opposing counsel even when those efforts fail. 

The cross exam includes a personal view into Nick's first car and life in outer space. 

Links:

https://www.rrmalaw.com/team/nick-atwood

Richard and Leah Rothstein join the podcast to discuss the history of government action that aided in the creation and enforcement of segregation in American Neighborhoods--and, importantly, what all citizens can do in their communities to undo those injustices. 

Mr. Richard Rothstein is a Distinguished Fellow of the Economic Policy Institute and a Senior Fellow (emeritus) at the Thurgood Marshall Institute of the NAACP Legal Defense Fund. He is the author of The Color of Law: A Forgotten History of How Our Government Segregated America, which recovers a forgotten history of how federal, state, and local policy explicitly segregated metropolitan areas nationwide, creating racially homogenous neighborhoods in patterns that violate the Constitution and require remediation.  The book has almost 18,000 reviews and a 4.8 rating on Amazon. He is a graduate of Harvard University and previously served as the former national education columnist for The New York Times.

Ms. Leah Rothstein also works on public policy and community change, from the grassroots to the halls of government. She led the Alameda County and San Francisco probation departments’ research on reforming community corrections policy and practice to be focused on rehabilitation, not punishment. She has been a consultant to nonprofit housing developers, cities and counties, redevelopment agencies, and private firms on community development and affordable housing issues. Her policy work is informed by her years as a community organizer with PUEBLO and Californians for Justice, and as a labor organizer with the Union of Needletrades, Industrial, and Textile Employees (UNITE). 

Their new book, Just Action, discusses local and community initiatives that all citizens can take to begin remedying the wrongs of the past. 

Other Links:

Just Action on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Just-Action-Challenge-Segregation-Enacted/dp/1324093242#customerReviews

Just Action Book page with links and resources: https://www.justactionbook.org/ 

Judge Andrew Edison joins the podcast to discuss the longest land takings fight in American History--the Black Hills of South Dakota land dispute--which has now spanned more than a century.  An episode in legal history and includes lessons for lawyers in staying with the fight.

Links:

https://www.txs.uscourts.gov/page/judge-andrew-m-edison-biography 

Wiki write up: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seizure_of_the_Black_Hills 

Professors Jessica Asbridge and Emilio Longoria join host Bobby Debelak to discuss their favorite property law and eminent domain papers of the last year.  The scholarship covers the argument for at-will employment as a taking, originalist interpretations of the constitution, deed restrictions, the contract clause, and more.

Paper Links:

Michael L. Smith, Is Originalism Bulls**t? https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4749322

Maureen E. Brady, Covenants and the Contract Clause, Va. Envt'l L.J. (forthcoming 2025), https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4856354

Racabi, At Will as Taking, https://www.yalelawjournal.org/essay/at-will-as-taking 

Ken Stahl, The Power of State Legislatures to Invalidate Private Deed Restrictions: Is It an Unconstitutional Taking?, 50 PEPP. L. REV. 579 (2023), https://digitalcommons.pepperdine.edu/plr/vol50/iss3/4/

Asbridge, Fines, Forfeitures, and Federalism, Virginia L. Rev. (forthcoming 2025), https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4743053

Longoria, Hoardings, Villanova L. Rev, https://www.villanovalawreview.com/article/123450-hoardings 

Longoria, Properly Construing the Just Compensation Clause, https://bclawreview.bc.edu/articles/3088 

Tom Forestier of Winstead PC joins the show to talk about a career of litigating high profile eminent domain cases, including his work in recent years with the Austin Airport taking case and the expansion of the Alamo Plaza. Bobby and Tom discuss the growing impact of media, from the advent of social media, impacts on grassroots efforts, and handling traditional media coverage of significant cases.

Links:

https://www.winstead.com/People/Tom-Forestier 

Episode 110: Chris Clough on the Austin Airport Taking https://www.eminentdomainpodcast.com/110-airport-taking/ 

Professor Ilya Somin of George Mason University and the Cato Institute discusses his work in drafting amicus papers in the Kelo case, working with Jane Jacobs, writing a book on Kelo (The Grasping Hand) a decade after the decision, and his current work on the costs of exclusionary zoning. Throughout, Bobby and Prof. Somin discuss the common ground that otherwise-differing philosophies find in property law.

Links:

https://www.law.gmu.edu/faculty/directory/fulltime/somin_ilya 

https://www.cato.org/people/ilya-somin

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2024/06/constitutional-case-against-exclusionary-zoning/678659/ 

https://www.amazon.com/Grasping-Hand-London-Limits-Eminent/dp/022642216X/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&dib_tag=se&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.Av65EcHKeo7CqGfLDs_9-g.tENW9VkASB1jBty2_iVzTu5b5-S5ECKGI_CBiubYZHA&qid=1724864661&sr=1-1 

The Eminent Domain Podcast returns!  Clint Schumacher passes the torch (microphone) to a new host, Bobby Debelak. Clint introduces Bobby, they discuss their eminent domain experience, and plans for the show going forward. 

In this final and farewell episode of the podcast, we reflect on the many guests and therefore perspectives that we have had on the show, and the important issues we have discussed over the last several years. There is also a behind-the-scenes story from the early years of the podcast. Thank you to all the guests and listeners who have made this podcast possible.  It has been a great joy and pleasure.  Old episodes will remain accessible at www.eminentdomainpodcast.com.  Farewell.

Robert Thomas of Pacific Legal Foundation joins us for a review of three impactful cases that eminent domain practitioners should watch as they work their way through the courts. We also get a preview of the 2024 ALI-CLE Eminent Domain and Land Valuation Litigation Conference that will be held in New Orleans this coming February.

Click here for information and registration for the ALI-CLE conference.

Please share your thoughts on the show or this episode with me. I’m on X @J_Clint. If you have thoughts about future show guests or ideas for episodes, please let me know.

Investigative journalists Brandi Kellam and Louis Hansen have uncovered the story of the Shoe Lane community in Newport News, Virginia, a middle-class black neighborhood that has been largely displaced and thwarted in its plans for growth by the establishment and expansion of a local university. Louis and Brandi’s work underlines the true impacts of community displacement in the wake of eminent domain, and the groups who disproportionately suffer those impacts.

Find their work here:

https://vcij.org/stories/how-virginia-college-expanded-by-uprooting-black-neighborhood

https://www.propublica.org/series/uprooted

Please share your thoughts on the show or this episode with me. I’m on X @J_Clint. If you have thoughts about future show guests or ideas for episodes, please let me know.