Commercial Photographer: Your Guide to Marketing, Creativity and Growth

This week, we're joined by professional photographer Martin Hobby. With over 30 years in the industry, Martin has experience in many genres, from weddings to corporate work to music photography. He shares his story, offering valuable advice on how to build a successful career and handle life’s unexpected challenges. Martin also sheds light on the business side of photography, the importance of community, and the surprising role of personal setbacks in professional growth.

Keywords: photography, professional photographer, commercial photography, business, networking, career, wedding photography

What you’ll learn from this episode:

The value of assisting: Find out why working as an assistant for an established professional photographer can be one of the best moves you can make for your career.

Why community and networking are so important: Discover how a supportive network of fellow photographers can lead to referrals, friendships, and a stronger business.

How to turn setbacks into success: Learn how to adapt your business and photography skills to overcome unexpected challenges, from moving house to global events.This week, we're joined by professional photographer Martin Hobby. With over 30 years in the industry, Martin has experience in many genres, from weddings to corporate work to music photography. He shares his story, offering valuable advice on how to build a successful career and handle life’s unexpected challenges. Martin also sheds light on the business side of photography, the importance of community, and the surprising role of personal setbacks in professional growth.

Keywords: photography, professional photographer, commercial photography, business, networking, career, wedding photography

What you’ll learn from this episode:

The value of assisting: Find out why working as an assistant for an established professional photographer can be one of the best moves you can make for your career.

Why community and networking are so important: Discover how a supportive network of fellow photographers can lead to referrals, friendships, and a stronger business.

How to turn setbacks into success: Learn how to adapt your business and photography skills to overcome unexpected challenges, from moving house to global events.

Paul's own story, in his own words, is told in full in Guest Interview with Paul Cooper.

This episode is sponsored by Website for photographers. Website 4 photographers help photographers get more leads from their websites. You can get in touch here

⁠[email protected]⁠

⁠01482 765871⁠

The show starts talking about why would you have a business plan?

The most basic answer is it helps you achieve your goals in life and in business. This is linked to where you and your business want to be in one year or in five years. Then the key is working out how you are going to get there. Sam thinks this is the essence of a business plan and it should be for you, personally.  The goals might be financial, lifestyle, number of shoots whatever is relevant and important for you.

So the business plan is about you helping yourself to achieve your goals. This means the business plan is not a one off price of work that is then ignored. It is a living document, it is guiding us day to day to help us meet our goals.
What do you put in a business plan?
It depends what your goals are. There will usually be a financial element. There will be steps you need to take to achieve your goals. Most plans will include: Marketing, sales and finance as a minimum. There could be all sorts of other things in there like business processes, your team (if you have one). There could be a section on your development and equipment. The key is it’s about the things needed to reach your goals.

Marcus asks about if there are apps etc to help. Sam said thereare loads of advice and templates out there. It’s a case of finding ones that work for you.
The business plan usually contains big steps in your journey to achieve your goals. Therefore you need a system to break those down into much smaller steps that you implement in day to life in your business.

Marcus asked if an accountant or business coach is the bestperson to speak to, to get support with making a business plan. Sam suggests it depends on the focus of your plan.

The first step in your business planning process is thinkingabout what do you want to achieve. This is about making it interesting, fun and relevant for you.

Once the plan's in place, the numbers are next. Making More Money from Your Business with Accountant Bel Turpin gets into the financial side of things.

Marcus flies solo this week for a conversation with Dr Michael Pritchard from the Royal Photographic Society — on what the RPS actually does, and where photography stands as AI reshapes the tools we all use.

Michael’s path started as a Saturday boy in a darkroom at 11 and eventually led to running the RPS’s education and programmes work, so this one covers both a personal photography story and an inside view of a 150-year-old institution.

• How a Saturday darkroom job at 11 turned into running the RPS’s education arm
• What the RPS actually does for its mostly-amateur membership
• The distinctions photographers can earn, and what they actually mean
• Where the RPS draws the line on whether an AI-generated image counts as photography
• Why Michael thinks working with AI beats fighting it, within the right limits

If you’ve wondered where a body like the RPS stands on AI, this is a straight answer from someone who has to actually decide.

Education pathways are a recurring thread — Modern Photography Apprenticeships with Anthony Milner is worth a listen for a more hands-on route into the industry than the one discussed here.

Sam and Marcus have a cozy fireside Christmas chat about the podcast over the last year.Marcus refers back to our very first show Degree or disagree. Marcus loves this for the content of the show and for the pun. This is always a debate that stirs up a lot of emotion.

Sam refers back to the show on networking. As networking is such an important part of your marketing for photographers. Marcus thinks thinks networking in person will be a great place to focus for 2024. He is going to try to do more face to face networking next year. He touches on the idea that it can be better to have a small strong community than a wide shallow pool of connections.  
Marcus then talks about the show we did with Colin Smith the listening guy Marcus thinks that taking part in the show has madeSam and him better listeners and better podcasts hosts.
Sam talks about the show with Donna Green. That show stands out for Sam because she was so organised. She had all her processes and systems very well organised.

Feeling festive? Christmas Comes to Photographers Everywhere is another seasonal episode worth saving for next December.

Gillian Devine says she got into photography because she ‘married the wrong man’ — and stayed in it long after the marriage ended, rebuilding her business and her life from a difficult divorce into a career coaching other photographers on marketing. She shares what actually gets a first conversation with a potential client started, why a lead magnet doesn't need to be about photography at all, and how she planned her move to Spain before she'd even landed.

Gillian comes back on the show in How to Not Leave "Money on the Table" with Gillian Devine, picking up with the benefit of hindsight.

Marcus’s answer is… it depends!

The pros of working for free

If you are starting out as a photographer Marcus thinks thereare some advantages to working for free.

One is getting experience. Marcus thinks that if you are working for free it allows you to try the client photographer relationship but without the client handing over any money.
Portfolio building is another reason to work for free. When you are starting out you need portfolio photographs for your website, social and to show people.
Experimentation. Marcus thinks this is another reason to work for free. You can be a bit more creative and experimental.
The cons of working for free
If you have worked for someone for free it can be hard to charge them if they come back and want further work.

People who get your work for free don’t value what you produce and don’t value your time. Sam and Marcus us the analogy ofthe supermarket, we value more the food we get from Waitrose than the food we get from Liddle.

Remember your time is valuable and does have a cost.

If you do work for free it is very important that you set clear expectations from the start of a free photo shoot what is the outcome. What will you deliver and how much input to they get in this.

Working for charities
Should you charge working for charities? Marcus initially never charged for working with charities. But now he has realised that the charities are full of people getting paid so why shouldn’t the photographer get paid to? Sam and Marcus discuss this could be variable depending on the charity, small local ones compared to large national ones. But do remember the accountant, marketingagency etc are all charging charities for their work.
Editorial photography
This means photography for magazines. This is not an area with much money in it. But it is a chance for your photographs to be seen by many people who would not normally see it. Marcus has never been paid for photos in a magazine, and it costs him time and money for the shoot. But Marcus feels the benefits of getting his photographs in the magazine out way the costs.
Personal projects
Marcus thinks all photographers should be doing personal projects. This portfolio can be shown to potential clients. Marcus says that this got him quickly to have a good job in photography.

Pricing is only half the battle. The Critical Mistake Sabotaging Your Commercial Photography Marketing and Conversion looks at what actually stops people booking in the first place.

She helps people who have got to a point in mid life when they start ask who they are and what are they doing. Her job is about finding what really fires people up and she helps them identify that and helps them make the change towards doing what they want. “Life is an illusion of your own creation” How do you see your own life?
Marcus asks what she means by mid life. Sarah says it’s the forty to sixty age bracket officially, but it’s also about mind set and where we are. And Sam commented that this is linked to children leaving home. Sarah says this is a time when people can lose themselves. It is also important to let them go and find their own way in life. Hovering over the children and not letting them makemistakes and learn doesn’t help them.

Mid life is a time when many people set up their own business, be that photography or other businesses. Sarah went through a divorce at this time and a little later set up her own business as a recruitment consultant.  
Sam asked about what someone should do who is thinking about a move to setting up their own photography business. Sarah says the key is just get out their and do it. Find out what it is you like about photography and get out there and do that specific thing. Right now don’t worry about making money from it. Just get outthere and work on what you love doing. And as you get known for this area of photography, you will start to find work. The key is find this area of photography that is your passion.

Sarah says also avoid the push to always grow the business,scale up and move to the next level. The key is to do what is right for you right now. If you wish to make money so you can travel the world, why not make money by taking photographs while travelling around the world. There are different ways of doing things. Make sure you know what you want your life to look like,and work out from there. And be creative in how you do it. Sarah says you should value yourself, but also don’t focus on the money. Focus on what you want.

Marcus asked Sarah some tips of how to get from A to B. Sarah says the first thing is define B and be specific. Where do you want to live, who do you want to spend time with, what do you want to do. And spend time thinking about this and getting it right. Without this clarity there is nothing you can do. Once you have this clarity then you can think about when opportunities come along, are these opportunities going to help me move towards B. Stepping into the role of where you are at B helps. Tell people who you are. Be present with the language you use with yourself and others. Know that B is where you want to be and talk about this in a positive way. Be yourself and follow your own path. Don’t compare yourself to others and let them bring you time. Just focus on what you want and getting to B. Surrounding yourself with the right people can really help with this.

You can reach Sarah at any of the places below

https://www.sarahjnaylor.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarahjnaylor/

https://www.instagram.com/sjncoaching/

Sarah returns as a guest later in the show's run in Sarah J Naylor Helps Us Live Our Best Life, if you want more from her.

Pricing is one of the most-asked questions in photography, and there’s no single right answer — hourly, value-based, and matching what competitors charge can all work, depending on your business.

Marcus and Sam walk through the pricing models they actually use, why new businesses almost always underprice themselves, and how to hold your price once you’ve quoted it.

• The pricing models Marcus and Sam actually use in their own businesses
• Why almost every new business could raise prices tomorrow and keep every client worth keeping
• How your website quietly tells clients what to expect on price before they even ask
• The one rule for holding your price once you’ve quoted it
• When working for free is actually a smart trade, and how to make sure it stays smart

If you’ve ever second-guessed a quote, this episode is the reset you need.

This episode is brought to you by Website4Photographers — [email protected] or 01482 765871 for help getting more leads from your website.

Pricing questions don’t stop at what to charge. Should I Work for Free? tackles the trickiest version of that conversation head on.

Allie Crewe left a teaching career the week a photograph of hers ended up hanging in a gallery alongside work by Martin Parr. She talks about the leap from night classes to national exhibitions, the awards and imposter syndrome that came with them, and why she still shoots everything on film. It's a story about what happens when you stop treating photography as a hobby and start trusting it.

Allie mentions the influence of Martin Parr's work in this episode, and Martin Parr, A Life in Photography is the full story behind the name.

 Marcus talks through his customers' experience
Marcus’s customer journey

Marcus likes to respond initial enquiries quickly, ideally within an hour. He then moves on to trying to setup a Zoom call. As photography is visual, having a visual call is reallyimportant. That call is all about listening not selling. Zoom also means ideas can be shared visually.
After this Marcus will send out a quote, which is done automatically using his CRM. So Marcus doesn’t really talk much about pricing in that initial call, that comes in with the quote goes out.
If the job goes ahead Marcus sets up another Zoom call before the shoot. This is a very creative call, talking about clothes, props and locations. It’s also a great way to get clients used to working you before you even meet.
People don’t like being photographed.
Marcus think in the UK people would prefer to go to the dentist than have their photograph taken. That means photographers need lots of...

Techniques to relax people
Chatting to them
Ask them about what people do, what they did at the weekend etc. All the classic questions to try and engage people.
Get people involved in the process

Shooting tethered means subjects can see the results of the photographs on the screen. They can then engage much more actively with the photography.  Ask them about clothes, props and angles.

Things Marcus does
Observe

Marcus observes people intently. He is looking for thingsthey naturally do and then asks them to do those in the photos. It might be a way they hold their head or a way they hold their hands.

Mirror

This is either you showing them something and ask them tofollow it. Or even better if you can quickly build rapport you can get them to just automatically copy you. So for example if you cross your arms they do it to.
Direct

This is the classic of the photographer telling the subjectwhat to do.

After the shoot

Initially Marcus narrows the photos down to about forty or fifty photos that he sends to the client via an online platform. He has found sending more than this just confuses the client. These photos have had a light edit, but not much more.  From then what happens depends on the client. Some keep all the images, some make a selection.

Before you can improve the customer experience, you need to know who you're actually improving it for. Who Is My Ideal Client? answers that question.