Glen Chiacchieri has worked at the MIT Media Lab on Scratch, at Dynamicland with Bret Victor, and is now becoming a psychotherapist. He's known for his Legible Mathematics essay, his Flowsheets programming prototypes, and the Laser Socks game, among many other projects.

In this conversation, we discuss:

• how he grounds his research in compassion,
• the tradeoffs between working on the "model vs UI" of programming,
• his software-company-in-the-making, based on Flowsheets,
• our shared dream for the future of open-source READMEs,
• and how Dynamicland does and does not point towards the future.

The notes for this conversation can be found at futureofcoding.org/episodes/26.

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