Today GoogleDeepMind released AlphaEvolve: a Gemini coding agent for algorithm discovery. It beat the famous Strassen algorithm for matrix multiplication set 56 years ago. Google has been killing it recently. We had early access to the paper and interviewed the researchers behind the work.

AlphaEvolve: A Gemini-powered coding agent for designing advanced algorithms

https://deepmind.google/discover/blog/alphaevolve-a-gemini-powered-coding-agent-for-designing-advanced-algorithms/

Authors: Alexander Novikov*, Ngân Vũ*, Marvin Eisenberger*, Emilien Dupont*, Po-Sen Huang*, Adam Zsolt Wagner*, Sergey Shirobokov*, Borislav Kozlovskii*, Francisco J. R. Ruiz, Abbas Mehrabian, M. Pawan Kumar, Abigail See, Swarat Chaudhuri, George Holland, Alex Davies, Sebastian Nowozin, Pushmeet Kohli, Matej Balog*

(* indicates equal contribution or special designation, if defined elsewhere)

SPONSOR MESSAGES:

***

Tufa AI Labs is a brand new research lab in Zurich started by Benjamin Crouzier focussed on o-series style reasoning and AGI. They are hiring a Chief Engineer and ML engineers. Events in Zurich.

Goto https://tufalabs.ai/

***

AlphaEvolve works like a very smart, tireless programmer. It uses powerful AI language models (like Gemini) to generate ideas for computer code. Then, it uses an "evolutionary" process – like survival of the fittest for programs. It tries out many different program ideas, automatically tests how well they solve a problem, and then uses the best ones to inspire new, even better programs.

Beyond this mathematical breakthrough, AlphaEvolve has already been used to improve real-world systems at Google, such as making their massive data centers run more efficiently and even speeding up the training of the AI models that power AlphaEvolve itself. The discussion also covers how humans work with AlphaEvolve, the challenges of making AI discover things, and the exciting future of AI helping scientists make new discoveries.

In short, AlphaEvolve is a powerful new AI tool that can invent new algorithms and solve complex problems, showing how AI can be a creative partner in science and engineering.

Guests:

Matej Balog: https://x.com/matejbalog

Alexander Novikov: https://x.com/SashaVNovikov

REFS:

MAP Elites [Jean-Baptiste Mouret, Jeff Clune]

https://arxiv.org/abs/1504.04909

FunSearch [Bernardino Romera-Paredes, Mohammadamin Barekatain, Alexander Novikov, Matej Balog, M. Pawan Kumar, Emilien Dupont, Francisco J. R. Ruiz, Jordan S. Ellenberg, Pengming Wang, Omar Fawzi, Pushmeet Kohli & Alhussein Fawzi]

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-023-06924-6

TOC:

[00:00:00] Introduction: Alpha Evolve's Breakthroughs, DeepMind's Lineage, and Real-World Impact

[00:12:06] Introducing AlphaEvolve: Concept, Evolutionary Algorithms, and Architecture

[00:16:56] Search Challenges: The Halting Problem and Enabling Creative Leaps

[00:23:20] Knowledge Augmentation: Self-Generated Data, Meta-Prompting, and Library Learning

[00:29:08] Matrix Multiplication Breakthrough: From Strassen to AlphaEvolve's 48 Multiplications

[00:39:11] Problem Representation: Direct Solutions, Constructors, and Search Algorithms

[00:46:06] Developer Reflections: Surprising Outcomes and Superiority over Simple LLM Sampling

[00:51:42] Algorithmic Improvement: Hill Climbing, Program Synthesis, and Intelligibility

[01:00:24] Real-World Application: Complex Evaluations and Robotics

[01:05:39] Role of LLMs & Future: Advanced Models, Recursive Self-Improvement, and Human-AI Collaboration

[01:11:22] Resource Considerations: Compute Costs of AlphaEvolve

This is a trial of posting videos on Spotify, thoughts? Email me or chat in our Discord

Randall Balestriero joins the show to discuss some counterintuitive findings in AI. He shares research showing that huge language models, even when started from scratch (randomly initialized) without massive pre-training, can learn specific tasks like sentiment analysis surprisingly well, train stably, and avoid severe overfitting, sometimes matching the performance of costly pre-trained models. This raises questions about when giant pre-training efforts are truly worth it.

He also talks about how self-supervised learning (where models learn from data structure itself) and traditional supervised learning (using labeled data) are fundamentally similar, allowing researchers to apply decades of supervised learning theory to improve newer self-supervised methods.

Finally, Randall touches on fairness in AI models used for Earth data (like climate prediction), revealing that these models can be biased, performing poorly in specific locations like islands or coastlines even if they seem accurate overall, which has important implications for policy decisions based on this data.

SPONSOR MESSAGES:

***

Tufa AI Labs is a brand new research lab in Zurich started by Benjamin Crouzier focussed on o-series style reasoning and AGI. They are hiring a Chief Engineer and ML engineers. Events in Zurich.

Goto https://tufalabs.ai/

***

TRANSCRIPT + SHOWNOTES:

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/n7yev71nsjso71jyjz1fy/RANDALLNEURIPS.pdf?rlkey=0dn4injp1sc4ts8njwf3wfmxv&dl=0

TOC:

1. Model Training Efficiency and Scale

[00:00:00] 1.1 Training Stability of Large Models on Small Datasets

[00:04:09] 1.2 Pre-training vs Random Initialization Performance Comparison

[00:07:58] 1.3 Task-Specific Models vs General LLMs Efficiency

2. Learning Paradigms and Data Distribution

[00:10:35] 2.1 Fair Language Model Paradox and Token Frequency Issues

[00:12:02] 2.2 Pre-training vs Single-task Learning Spectrum

[00:16:04] 2.3 Theoretical Equivalence of Supervised and Self-supervised Learning

[00:19:40] 2.4 Self-Supervised Learning and Supervised Learning Relationships

[00:21:25] 2.5 SSL Objectives and Heavy-tailed Data Distribution Challenges

3. Geographic Representation in ML Systems

[00:25:20] 3.1 Geographic Bias in Earth Data Models and Neural Representations

[00:28:10] 3.2 Mathematical Limitations and Model Improvements

[00:30:24] 3.3 Data Quality and Geographic Bias in ML Datasets

REFS:

[00:01:40] Research on training large language models from scratch on small datasets, Randall Balestriero et al.

https://openreview.net/forum?id=wYGBWOjq1Q

[00:10:35] The Fair Language Model Paradox (2024), Andrea Pinto, Tomer Galanti, Randall Balestriero

https://arxiv.org/abs/2410.11985

[00:12:20] Muppet: Massive Multi-task Representations with Pre-Finetuning (2021), Armen Aghajanyan et al.

https://arxiv.org/abs/2101.11038

[00:14:30] Dissociating language and thought in large language models (2023), Kyle Mahowald et al.

https://arxiv.org/abs/2301.06627

[00:16:05] The Birth of Self-Supervised Learning: A Supervised Theory, Randall Balestriero et al.

https://openreview.net/forum?id=NhYAjAAdQT

[00:21:25] VICReg: Variance-Invariance-Covariance Regularization for Self-Supervised Learning, Adrien Bardes, Jean Ponce, Yann LeCun

https://arxiv.org/abs/2105.04906

[00:25:20] No Location Left Behind: Measuring and Improving the Fairness of Implicit Representations for Earth Data (2025), Daniel Cai, Randall Balestriero, et al.

https://arxiv.org/abs/2502.06831

[00:33:45] Mark Ibrahim et al.'s work on geographic bias in computer vision datasets, Mark Ibrahim

https://arxiv.org/pdf/2304.12210

Prof. Kevin Ellis and Dr. Zenna Tavares talk about making AI smarter, like humans. They want AI to learn from just a little bit of information by actively trying things out, not just by looking at tons of data.

They discuss two main ways AI can "think": one way is like following specific rules or steps (like a computer program), and the other is more intuitive, like guessing based on patterns (like modern AI often does). They found combining both methods works well for solving complex puzzles like ARC.

A key idea is "compositionality" - building big ideas from small ones, like LEGOs. This is powerful but can also be overwhelming. Another important idea is "abstraction" - understanding things simply, without getting lost in details, and knowing there are different levels of understanding.

Ultimately, they believe the best AI will need to explore, experiment, and build models of the world, much like humans do when learning something new.

SPONSOR MESSAGES:

***

Tufa AI Labs is a brand new research lab in Zurich started by Benjamin Crouzier focussed on o-series style reasoning and AGI. They are hiring a Chief Engineer and ML engineers. Events in Zurich.

Goto https://tufalabs.ai/

***

TRANSCRIPT:

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/3ngggvhb3tnemw879er5y/BASIS.pdf?rlkey=lr2zbj3317mex1q5l0c2rsk0h&dl=0

Zenna Tavares:

http://www.zenna.org/

Kevin Ellis:

https://www.cs.cornell.edu/~ellisk/

TOC:

1. Compositionality and Learning Foundations

[00:00:00] 1.1 Compositional Search and Learning Challenges

[00:03:55] 1.2 Bayesian Learning and World Models

[00:12:05] 1.3 Programming Languages and Compositionality Trade-offs

[00:15:35] 1.4 Inductive vs Transductive Approaches in AI Systems

2. Neural-Symbolic Program Synthesis

[00:27:20] 2.1 Integration of LLMs with Traditional Programming and Meta-Programming

[00:30:43] 2.2 Wake-Sleep Learning and DreamCoder Architecture

[00:38:26] 2.3 Program Synthesis from Interactions and Hidden State Inference

[00:41:36] 2.4 Abstraction Mechanisms and Resource Rationality

[00:48:38] 2.5 Inductive Biases and Causal Abstraction in AI Systems

3. Abstract Reasoning Systems

[00:52:10] 3.1 Abstract Concepts and Grid-Based Transformations in ARC

[00:56:08] 3.2 Induction vs Transduction Approaches in Abstract Reasoning

[00:59:12] 3.3 ARC Limitations and Interactive Learning Extensions

[01:06:30] 3.4 Wake-Sleep Program Learning and Hybrid Approaches

[01:11:37] 3.5 Project MARA and Future Research Directions

REFS:

[00:00:25] DreamCoder, Kevin Ellis et al.

https://arxiv.org/abs/2006.08381

[00:01:10] Mind Your Step, Ryan Liu et al.

https://arxiv.org/abs/2410.21333

[00:06:05] Bayesian inference, Griffiths, T. L., Kemp, C., & Tenenbaum, J. B.

https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2008-06911-003

[00:13:00] Induction and Transduction, Wen-Ding Li, Zenna Tavares, Yewen Pu, Kevin Ellis

https://arxiv.org/abs/2411.02272

[00:23:15] Neurosymbolic AI, Garcez, Artur d'Avila et al.

https://arxiv.org/abs/2012.05876

[00:33:50] Induction and Transduction (II), Wen-Ding Li, Kevin Ellis et al.

https://arxiv.org/abs/2411.02272

[00:38:35] ARC, François Chollet

https://arxiv.org/abs/1911.01547

[00:39:20] Causal Reactive Programs, Ria Das, Joshua B. Tenenbaum, Armando Solar-Lezama, Zenna Tavares

http://www.zenna.org/publications/autumn2022.pdf

[00:42:50] MuZero, Julian Schrittwieser et al.

http://arxiv.org/pdf/1911.08265

[00:43:20] VisualPredicator, Yichao Liang

https://arxiv.org/abs/2410.23156

[00:48:55] Bayesian models of cognition, Joshua B. Tenenbaum

https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262049412/bayesian-models-of-cognition/

[00:49:30] The Bitter Lesson, Rich Sutton

http://www.incompleteideas.net/IncIdeas/BitterLesson.html

[01:06:35] Program induction, Kevin Ellis, Wen-Ding Li

https://arxiv.org/pdf/2411.02272

[01:06:50] DreamCoder (II), Kevin Ellis et al.

https://arxiv.org/abs/2006.08381

[01:11:55] Project MARA, Zenna Tavares, Kevin Ellis

https://www.basis.ai/blog/mara/

Eiso Kant, CTO of poolside AI, discusses the company's approach to building frontier AI foundation models, particularly focused on software development. Their unique strategy is reinforcement learning from code execution feedback which is an important axis for scaling AI capabilities beyond just increasing model size or data volume. Kant predicts human-level AI in knowledge work could be achieved within 18-36 months, outlining poolside's vision to dramatically increase software development productivity and accessibility.

SPONSOR MESSAGES:

***

Tufa AI Labs is a brand new research lab in Zurich started by Benjamin Crouzier focussed on o-series style reasoning and AGI. They are hiring a Chief Engineer and ML engineers. Events in Zurich.

Goto https://tufalabs.ai/

***

Eiso Kant:

https://x.com/eisokant

https://poolside.ai/

TRANSCRIPT:

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/szepl6taqziyqie9wgmk9/poolside.pdf?rlkey=iqar7dcwshyrpeoz0xa76k422&dl=0

TOC:

1. Foundation Models and AI Strategy

[00:00:00] 1.1 Foundation Models and Timeline Predictions for AI Development

[00:02:55] 1.2 Poolside AI's Corporate History and Strategic Vision

[00:06:48] 1.3 Foundation Models vs Enterprise Customization Trade-offs

2. Reinforcement Learning and Model Economics

[00:15:42] 2.1 Reinforcement Learning and Code Execution Feedback Approaches

[00:22:06] 2.2 Model Economics and Experimental Optimization

3. Enterprise AI Implementation

[00:25:20] 3.1 Poolside's Enterprise Deployment Strategy and Infrastructure

[00:26:00] 3.2 Enterprise-First Business Model and Market Focus

[00:27:05] 3.3 Foundation Models and AGI Development Approach

[00:29:24] 3.4 DeepSeek Case Study and Infrastructure Requirements

4. LLM Architecture and Performance

[00:30:15] 4.1 Distributed Training and Hardware Architecture Optimization

[00:33:01] 4.2 Model Scaling Strategies and Chinchilla Optimality Trade-offs

[00:36:04] 4.3 Emergent Reasoning and Model Architecture Comparisons

[00:43:26] 4.4 Balancing Creativity and Determinism in AI Models

[00:50:01] 4.5 AI-Assisted Software Development Evolution

5. AI Systems Engineering and Scalability

[00:58:31] 5.1 Enterprise AI Productivity and Implementation Challenges

[00:58:40] 5.2 Low-Code Solutions and Enterprise Hiring Trends

[01:01:25] 5.3 Distributed Systems and Engineering Complexity

[01:01:50] 5.4 GenAI Architecture and Scalability Patterns

[01:01:55] 5.5 Scaling Limitations and Architectural Patterns in AI Code Generation

6. AI Safety and Future Capabilities

[01:06:23] 6.1 Semantic Understanding and Language Model Reasoning Approaches

[01:12:42] 6.2 Model Interpretability and Safety Considerations in AI Systems

[01:16:27] 6.3 AI vs Human Capabilities in Software Development

[01:33:45] 6.4 Enterprise Deployment and Security Architecture

CORE REFS (see shownotes for URLs/more refs):

[00:15:45] Research demonstrating how training on model-generated content leads to distribution collapse in AI models, Ilia Shumailov et al. (Key finding on synthetic data risk)

[00:20:05] Foundational paper introducing Word2Vec for computing word vector representations, Tomas Mikolov et al. (Seminal NLP technique)

[00:22:15] OpenAI O3 model's breakthrough performance on ARC Prize Challenge, OpenAI (Significant AI reasoning benchmark achievement)

[00:22:40] Seminal paper proposing a formal definition of intelligence as skill-acquisition efficiency, François Chollet (Influential AI definition/philosophy)

[00:30:30] Technical documentation of DeepSeek's V3 model architecture and capabilities, DeepSeek AI (Details on a major new model)

[00:34:30] Foundational paper establishing optimal scaling laws for LLM training, Jordan Hoffmann et al. (Key paper on LLM scaling)

[00:45:45] Seminal essay arguing that scaling computation consistently trumps human-engineered solutions in AI, Richard S. Sutton (Influential "Bitter Lesson" perspective)

Connor Leahy and Gabriel Alfour, AI researchers from Conjecture and authors of "The Compendium," joinus for a critical discussion centered on Artificial Superintelligence (ASI) safety and governance. Drawing from their comprehensive analysis in "The Compendium," they articulate a stark warning about the existential risks inherent in uncontrolled AI development, framing it through the lens of "intelligence domination"—where a sufficiently advanced AI could subordinate humanity, much like humans dominate less intelligent species.

SPONSOR MESSAGES:

***

Tufa AI Labs is a brand new research lab in Zurich started by Benjamin Crouzier focussed on o-series style reasoning and AGI. They are hiring a Chief Engineer and ML engineers. Events in Zurich.

Goto https://tufalabs.ai/

***

TRANSCRIPT + REFS + NOTES:

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/p86l75y4o2ii40df5t7no/Compendium.pdf?rlkey=tukczgf3flw133sr9rgss0pnj&dl=0

https://www.thecompendium.ai/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connor_Leahy

https://www.conjecture.dev/about

https://substack.com/@gabecc​

TOC:

1. AI Intelligence and Safety Fundamentals

[00:00:00] 1.1 Understanding Intelligence and AI Capabilities

[00:06:20] 1.2 Emergence of Intelligence and Regulatory Challenges

[00:10:18] 1.3 Human vs Animal Intelligence Debate

[00:18:00] 1.4 AI Regulation and Risk Assessment Approaches

[00:26:14] 1.5 Competing AI Development Ideologies

2. Economic and Social Impact

[00:29:10] 2.1 Labor Market Disruption and Post-Scarcity Scenarios

[00:32:40] 2.2 Institutional Frameworks and Tech Power Dynamics

[00:37:40] 2.3 Ethical Frameworks and AI Governance Debates

[00:40:52] 2.4 AI Alignment Evolution and Technical Challenges

3. Technical Governance Framework

[00:55:07] 3.1 Three Levels of AI Safety: Alignment, Corrigibility, and Boundedness

[00:55:30] 3.2 Challenges of AI System Corrigibility and Constitutional Models

[00:57:35] 3.3 Limitations of Current Boundedness Approaches

[00:59:11] 3.4 Abstract Governance Concepts and Policy Solutions

4. Democratic Implementation and Coordination

[00:59:20] 4.1 Governance Design and Measurement Challenges

[01:00:10] 4.2 Democratic Institutions and Experimental Governance

[01:14:10] 4.3 Political Engagement and AI Safety Advocacy

[01:25:30] 4.4 Practical AI Safety Measures and International Coordination

CORE REFS:

[00:01:45] The Compendium (2023), Leahy et al.

https://pdf.thecompendium.ai/the_compendium.pdf

[00:06:50] Geoffrey Hinton Leaves Google, BBC News

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65452940

[00:10:00] ARC-AGI, Chollet

https://arcprize.org/arc-agi

[00:13:25] A Brief History of Intelligence, Bennett

https://www.amazon.com/Brief-History-Intelligence-Humans-Breakthroughs/dp/0063286343

[00:25:35] Statement on AI Risk, Center for AI Safety

https://www.safe.ai/work/statement-on-ai-risk

[00:26:15] Machines of Love and Grace, Amodei

https://darioamodei.com/machines-of-loving-grace

[00:26:35] The Techno-Optimist Manifesto, Andreessen

https://a16z.com/the-techno-optimist-manifesto/

[00:31:55] Techno-Feudalism, Varoufakis

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Technofeudalism-Killed-Capitalism-Yanis-Varoufakis/dp/1847927270

[00:42:40] Introducing Superalignment, OpenAI

https://openai.com/index/introducing-superalignment/

[00:47:20] Three Laws of Robotics, Asimov

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Three-Laws-of-Robotics

[00:50:00] Symbolic AI (GOFAI), Haugeland

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbolic_artificial_intelligence

[00:52:30] Intent Alignment, Christiano

https://www.alignmentforum.org/posts/HEZgGBZTpT4Bov7nH/mapping-the-conceptual-territory-in-ai-existential-safety

[00:55:10] Large Language Model Alignment: A Survey, Jiang et al.

http://arxiv.org/pdf/2309.15025

[00:55:40] Constitutional Checks and Balances, Bok

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/montesquieu/

We are joined by Francois Chollet and Mike Knoop, to launch the new version of the ARC prize! In version 2, the challenges have been calibrated with humans such that at least 2 humans could solve each task in a reasonable task, but also adversarially selected so that frontier reasoning models can't solve them. The best LLMs today get negligible performance on this challenge.

https://arcprize.org/

SPONSOR MESSAGES:

***

Tufa AI Labs is a brand new research lab in Zurich started by Benjamin Crouzier focussed on o-series style reasoning and AGI. They are hiring a Chief Engineer and ML engineers. Events in Zurich.

Goto https://tufalabs.ai/

***

TRANSCRIPT:

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/0v9o8xcpppdwnkntj59oi/ARCv2.pdf?rlkey=luqb6f141976vra6zdtptv5uj&dl=0

TOC:

1. ARC v2 Core Design & Objectives

[00:00:00] 1.1 ARC v2 Launch and Benchmark Architecture

[00:03:16] 1.2 Test-Time Optimization and AGI Assessment

[00:06:24] 1.3 Human-AI Capability Analysis

[00:13:02] 1.4 OpenAI o3 Initial Performance Results

2. ARC Technical Evolution

[00:17:20] 2.1 ARC-v1 to ARC-v2 Design Improvements

[00:21:12] 2.2 Human Validation Methodology

[00:26:05] 2.3 Task Design and Gaming Prevention

[00:29:11] 2.4 Intelligence Measurement Framework

3. O3 Performance & Future Challenges

[00:38:50] 3.1 O3 Comprehensive Performance Analysis

[00:43:40] 3.2 System Limitations and Failure Modes

[00:49:30] 3.3 Program Synthesis Applications

[00:53:00] 3.4 Future Development Roadmap

REFS:

[00:00:15] On the Measure of Intelligence, François Chollet

https://arxiv.org/abs/1911.01547

[00:06:45] ARC Prize Foundation, François Chollet, Mike Knoop

https://arcprize.org/

[00:12:50] OpenAI o3 model performance on ARC v1, ARC Prize Team

https://arcprize.org/blog/oai-o3-pub-breakthrough

[00:18:30] Chain-of-Thought Prompting Elicits Reasoning in Large Language Models, Jason Wei et al.

https://arxiv.org/abs/2201.11903

[00:21:45] ARC-v2 benchmark tasks, Mike Knoop

https://arcprize.org/blog/introducing-arc-agi-public-leaderboard

[00:26:05] ARC Prize 2024: Technical Report, Francois Chollet et al.

https://arxiv.org/html/2412.04604v2

[00:32:45] ARC Prize 2024 Technical Report, Francois Chollet, Mike Knoop, Gregory Kamradt

https://arxiv.org/abs/2412.04604

[00:48:55] The Bitter Lesson, Rich Sutton

http://www.incompleteideas.net/IncIdeas/BitterLesson.html

[00:53:30] Decoding strategies in neural text generation, Sina Zarrieß

https://www.mdpi.com/2078-2489/12/9/355/pdf

Mohamed Osman joins to discuss MindsAI's highest scoring entry to the ARC challenge 2024 and the paradigm of test-time fine-tuning. They explore how the team, now part of Tufa Labs in Zurich, achieved state-of-the-art results using a combination of pre-training techniques, a unique meta-learning strategy, and an ensemble voting mechanism. Mohamed emphasizes the importance of raw data input and flexibility of the network.

SPONSOR MESSAGES:

***

Tufa AI Labs is a brand new research lab in Zurich started by Benjamin Crouzier focussed on o-series style reasoning and AGI. They are hiring a Chief Engineer and ML engineers. Events in Zurich.

Goto https://tufalabs.ai/

***

TRANSCRIPT + REFS:

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/jeavyqidsjzjgjgd7ns7h/MoFInal.pdf?rlkey=cjjmo7rgtenxrr3b46nk6yq2e&dl=0

Mohamed Osman (Tufa Labs)

https://x.com/MohamedOsmanML

Jack Cole (Tufa Labs)

https://x.com/MindsAI_Jack

How and why deep learning for ARC paper:

https://github.com/MohamedOsman1998/deep-learning-for-arc/blob/main/deep_learning_for_arc.pdf

TOC:

1. Abstract Reasoning Foundations

[00:00:00] 1.1 Test-Time Fine-Tuning and ARC Challenge Overview

[00:10:20] 1.2 Neural Networks vs Programmatic Approaches to Reasoning

[00:13:23] 1.3 Code-Based Learning and Meta-Model Architecture

[00:20:26] 1.4 Technical Implementation with Long T5 Model

2. ARC Solution Architectures

[00:24:10] 2.1 Test-Time Tuning and Voting Methods for ARC Solutions

[00:27:54] 2.2 Model Generalization and Function Generation Challenges

[00:32:53] 2.3 Input Representation and VLM Limitations

[00:36:21] 2.4 Architecture Innovation and Cross-Modal Integration

[00:40:05] 2.5 Future of ARC Challenge and Program Synthesis Approaches

3. Advanced Systems Integration

[00:43:00] 3.1 DreamCoder Evolution and LLM Integration

[00:50:07] 3.2 MindsAI Team Progress and Acquisition by Tufa Labs

[00:54:15] 3.3 ARC v2 Development and Performance Scaling

[00:58:22] 3.4 Intelligence Benchmarks and Transformer Limitations

[01:01:50] 3.5 Neural Architecture Optimization and Processing Distribution

REFS:

[00:01:32] Original ARC challenge paper, François Chollet

https://arxiv.org/abs/1911.01547

[00:06:55] DreamCoder, Kevin Ellis et al.

https://arxiv.org/abs/2006.08381

[00:12:50] Deep Learning with Python, François Chollet

https://www.amazon.com/Deep-Learning-Python-Francois-Chollet/dp/1617294438

[00:13:35] Deep Learning with Python, François Chollet

https://www.amazon.com/Deep-Learning-Python-Francois-Chollet/dp/1617294438

[00:13:35] Influence of pretraining data for reasoning, Laura Ruis

https://arxiv.org/abs/2411.12580

[00:17:50] Latent Program Networks, Clement Bonnet

https://arxiv.org/html/2411.08706v1

[00:20:50] T5, Colin Raffel et al.

https://arxiv.org/abs/1910.10683

[00:30:30] Combining Induction and Transduction for Abstract Reasoning, Wen-Ding Li, Kevin Ellis et al.

https://arxiv.org/abs/2411.02272

[00:34:15] Six finger problem, Chen et al.

https://openaccess.thecvf.com/content/CVPR2024/papers/Chen_SpatialVLM_Endowing_Vision-Language_Models_with_Spatial_Reasoning_Capabilities_CVPR_2024_paper.pdf

[00:38:15] DeepSeek-R1-Distill-Llama, DeepSeek AI

https://huggingface.co/deepseek-ai/DeepSeek-R1-Distill-Llama-70B

[00:40:10] ARC Prize 2024 Technical Report, François Chollet et al.

https://arxiv.org/html/2412.04604v2

[00:45:20] LLM-Guided Compositional Program Synthesis, Wen-Ding Li and Kevin Ellis

https://arxiv.org/html/2503.15540

[00:54:25] Abstraction and Reasoning Corpus, François Chollet

https://github.com/fchollet/ARC-AGI

[00:57:10] O3 breakthrough on ARC-AGI, OpenAI

https://arcprize.org/

[00:59:35] ConceptARC Benchmark, Arseny Moskvichev, Melanie Mitchell

https://arxiv.org/abs/2305.07141

[01:02:05] Mixtape: Breaking the Softmax Bottleneck Efficiently, Yang, Zhilin and Dai, Zihang and Salakhutdinov, Ruslan and Cohen, William W.

http://papers.neurips.cc/paper/9723-mixtape-breaking-the-softmax-bottleneck-efficiently.pdf

Iman Mirzadeh from Apple, who recently published the GSM-Symbolic paper discusses the crucial distinction between intelligence and achievement in AI systems. He critiques current AI research methodologies, highlighting the limitations of Large Language Models (LLMs) in reasoning and knowledge representation.

SPONSOR MESSAGES:

***

Tufa AI Labs is a brand new research lab in Zurich started by Benjamin Crouzier focussed on o-series style reasoning and AGI. They are hiring a Chief Engineer and ML engineers. Events in Zurich.

Goto https://tufalabs.ai/

***

TRANSCRIPT + RESEARCH:

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/mlcjl9cd5p1kem4l0vqd3/IMAN.pdf?rlkey=dqfqb74zr81a5gqr8r6c8isg3&dl=0

TOC:

1. Intelligence vs Achievement in AI Systems

[00:00:00] 1.1 Intelligence vs Achievement Metrics in AI Systems

[00:03:27] 1.2 AlphaZero and Abstract Understanding in Chess

[00:10:10] 1.3 Language Models and Distribution Learning Limitations

[00:14:47] 1.4 Research Methodology and Theoretical Frameworks

2. Intelligence Measurement and Learning

[00:24:24] 2.1 LLM Capabilities: Interpolation vs True Reasoning

[00:29:00] 2.2 Intelligence Definition and Measurement Approaches

[00:34:35] 2.3 Learning Capabilities and Agency in AI Systems

[00:39:26] 2.4 Abstract Reasoning and Symbol Understanding

3. LLM Performance and Evaluation

[00:47:15] 3.1 Scaling Laws and Fundamental Limitations

[00:54:33] 3.2 Connectionism vs Symbolism Debate in Neural Networks

[00:58:09] 3.3 GSM-Symbolic: Testing Mathematical Reasoning in LLMs

[01:08:38] 3.4 Benchmark Evaluation and Model Performance Assessment

REFS:

[00:01:00] AlphaZero chess AI system, Silver et al.

https://arxiv.org/abs/1712.01815

[00:07:10] Game Changer: AlphaZero's Groundbreaking Chess Strategies, Sadler & Regan

https://www.amazon.com/Game-Changer-AlphaZeros-Groundbreaking-Strategies/dp/9056918184

[00:11:35] Cross-entropy loss in language modeling, Voita

http://lena-voita.github.io/nlp_course/language_modeling.html

[00:17:20] GSM-Symbolic: Understanding the Limitations of Mathematical Reasoning in LLMs, Mirzadeh et al.

https://arxiv.org/abs/2410.05229

[00:21:25] Connectionism and Cognitive Architecture: A Critical Analysis, Fodor & Pylyshyn

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/001002779090014B

[00:28:55] Brain-to-body mass ratio scaling laws, Sutskever

https://www.theverge.com/2024/12/13/24320811/what-ilya-sutskever-sees-openai-model-data-training

[00:29:40] On the Measure of Intelligence, Chollet

https://arxiv.org/abs/1911.01547

[00:33:30] On definition of intelligence, Gignac et al.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160289624000266

[00:35:30] Defining intelligence, Wang

https://cis.temple.edu/~wangp/papers.html

[00:37:40] How We Learn: Why Brains Learn Better Than Any Machine... for Now, Dehaene

https://www.amazon.com/How-We-Learn-Brains-Machine/dp/0525559884

[00:39:35] Surfaces and Essences: Analogy as the Fuel and Fire of Thinking, Hofstadter and Sander

https://www.amazon.com/Surfaces-Essences-Analogy-Fuel-Thinking/dp/0465018475

[00:43:15] Chain-of-thought prompting, Wei et al.

https://arxiv.org/abs/2201.11903

[00:47:20] Test-time scaling laws in machine learning, Brown

https://podcasts.apple.com/mv/podcast/openais-noam-brown-ilge-akkaya-and-hunter-lightman-on/id1750736528?i=1000671532058

[00:47:50] Scaling Laws for Neural Language Models, Kaplan et al.

https://arxiv.org/abs/2001.08361

[00:55:15] Tensor product variable binding, Smolensky

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/000437029090007M

[01:08:45] GSM-8K dataset, OpenAI

https://huggingface.co/datasets/openai/gsm8k

Dr. Max Bartolo from Cohere discusses machine learning model development, evaluation, and robustness. Key topics include model reasoning, the DynaBench platform for dynamic benchmarking, data-centric AI development, model training challenges, and the limitations of human feedback mechanisms. The conversation also covers technical aspects like influence functions, model quantization, and the PRISM project.

Max Bartolo (Cohere):

https://www.maxbartolo.com/

https://cohere.com/command

TRANSCRIPT:

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/vujxscaffw37pqgb6hpie/MAXB.pdf?rlkey=0oqjxs5u49eqa2m7uaol64lbw&dl=0

TOC:

1. Model Reasoning and Verification

[00:00:00] 1.1 Model Consistency and Reasoning Verification

[00:03:25] 1.2 Influence Functions and Distributed Knowledge Analysis

[00:10:28] 1.3 AI Application Development and Model Deployment

[00:14:24] 1.4 AI Alignment and Human Feedback Limitations

2. Evaluation and Bias Assessment

[00:20:15] 2.1 Human Evaluation Challenges and Factuality Assessment

[00:27:15] 2.2 Cultural and Demographic Influences on Model Behavior

[00:32:43] 2.3 Adversarial Examples and Model Robustness

3. Benchmarking Systems and Methods

[00:41:54] 3.1 DynaBench and Dynamic Benchmarking Approaches

[00:50:02] 3.2 Benchmarking Challenges and Alternative Metrics

[00:50:33] 3.3 Evolution of Model Benchmarking Methods

[00:51:15] 3.4 Hierarchical Capability Testing Framework

[00:52:35] 3.5 Benchmark Platforms and Tools

4. Model Architecture and Performance

[00:55:15] 4.1 Cohere's Model Development Process

[01:00:26] 4.2 Model Quantization and Performance Evaluation

[01:05:18] 4.3 Reasoning Capabilities and Benchmark Standards

[01:08:27] 4.4 Training Progression and Technical Challenges

5. Future Directions and Challenges

[01:13:48] 5.1 Context Window Evolution and Trade-offs

[01:22:47] 5.2 Enterprise Applications and Future Challenges

REFS:

[00:03:10] Research at Cohere with Laura Ruis et al., Max Bartolo, Laura Ruis et al.

https://cohere.com/research/papers/procedural-knowledge-in-pretraining-drives-reasoning-in-large-language-models-2024-11-20

[00:04:15] Influence functions in machine learning, Koh & Liang

https://arxiv.org/abs/1703.04730

[00:08:05] Studying Large Language Model Generalization with Influence Functions, Roger Grosse et al.

https://storage.prod.researchhub.com/uploads/papers/2023/08/08/2308.03296.pdf

[00:11:10] The LLM ARChitect: Solving ARC-AGI Is A Matter of Perspective, Daniel Franzen, Jan Disselhoff, and David Hartmann

https://github.com/da-fr/arc-prize-2024/blob/main/the_architects.pdf

[00:12:10] Hugging Face model repo for C4AI Command A, Cohere and Cohere For AI

https://huggingface.co/CohereForAI/c4ai-command-a-03-2025

[00:13:30] OpenInterpreter

https://github.com/KillianLucas/open-interpreter

[00:16:15] Human Feedback is not Gold Standard, Tom Hosking, Max Bartolo, Phil Blunsom

https://arxiv.org/abs/2309.16349

[00:27:15] The PRISM Alignment Dataset, Hannah Kirk et al.

https://arxiv.org/abs/2404.16019

[00:32:50] How adversarial examples arise, Andrew Ilyas, Shibani Santurkar, Dimitris Tsipras, Logan Engstrom, Brandon Tran, Aleksander Madry

https://arxiv.org/abs/1905.02175

[00:43:00] DynaBench platform paper, Douwe Kiela et al.

https://aclanthology.org/2021.naacl-main.324.pdf

[00:50:15] Sara Hooker's work on compute limitations, Sara Hooker

https://arxiv.org/html/2407.05694v1

[00:53:25] DataPerf: Community-led benchmark suite, Mazumder et al.

https://arxiv.org/abs/2207.10062

[01:04:35] DROP, Dheeru Dua et al.

https://arxiv.org/abs/1903.00161

[01:07:05] GSM8k, Cobbe et al.

https://paperswithcode.com/sota/arithmetic-reasoning-on-gsm8k

[01:09:30] ARC, François Chollet

https://github.com/fchollet/ARC-AGI

[01:15:50] Command A, Cohere

https://cohere.com/blog/command-a

[01:22:55] Enterprise search using LLMs, Cohere

https://cohere.com/blog/commonly-asked-questions-about-search-from-coheres-enterprise-customers

This sponsored episode features mathematician Ohad Asor discussing logical approaches to AI, focusing on the limitations of machine learning and introducing the Tau language for software development and blockchain tech. Asor argues that machine learning cannot guarantee correctness. Tau allows logical specification of software requirements, automatically creating provably correct implementations with potential to revolutionize distributed systems. The discussion highlights program synthesis, software updates, and applications in finance and governance.SPONSOR MESSAGES:***Tufa AI Labs is a brand new research lab in Zurich started by Benjamin Crouzier focussed on o-series style reasoning and AGI. They are hiring a Chief Engineer and ML engineers. Events in Zurich. Goto https://tufalabs.ai/***TRANSCRIPT + RESEARCH:https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/t849j6v1juk3gc15g4rsy/TAU.pdf?rlkey=hh11h2mhog3ncdbeapbzpzctc&dl=0Tau:https://tau.net/Tau Language:https://tau.ai/tau-language/Research:https://tau.net/Theories-and-Applications-of-Boolean-Algebras-0.29.pdfTOC:1. Machine Learning Foundations and Limitations [00:00:00] 1.1 Fundamental Limitations of Machine Learning and PAC Learning Theory [00:04:50] 1.2 Transductive Learning and the Three Curses of Machine Learning [00:08:57] 1.3 Language, Reality, and AI System Design [00:12:58] 1.4 Program Synthesis and Formal Verification Approaches2. Logical Programming Architecture [00:31:55] 2.1 Safe AI Development Requirements [00:32:05] 2.2 Self-Referential Language Architecture [00:32:50] 2.3 Boolean Algebra and Logical Foundations [00:37:52] 2.4 SAT Solvers and Complexity Challenges [00:44:30] 2.5 Program Synthesis and Specification [00:47:39] 2.6 Overcoming Tarski's Undefinability with Boolean Algebra [00:56:05] 2.7 Tau Language Implementation and User Control3. Blockchain-Based Software Governance [01:09:10] 3.1 User Control and Software Governance Mechanisms [01:18:27] 3.2 Tau's Blockchain Architecture and Meta-Programming Capabilities [01:21:43] 3.3 Development Status and Token Implementation [01:24:52] 3.4 Consensus Building and Opinion Mapping System [01:35:29] 3.5 Automation and Financial ApplicationsCORE REFS (more in pinned comment):[00:03:45] PAC (Probably Approximately Correct) Learning framework, Leslie Valianthttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probably_approximately_correct_learning[00:06:10] Boolean Satisfiability Problem (SAT), Varioushttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boolean_satisfiability_problem[00:13:55] Knowledge as Justified True Belief (JTB), Matthias Steuphttps://plato.stanford.edu/entries/epistemology/[00:17:50] Wittgenstein's concept of the limits of language, Ludwig Wittgensteinhttps://plato.stanford.edu/entries/wittgenstein/[00:21:25] Boolean algebras, Ohad Osorhttps://tau.net/tau-language-research/[00:26:10] The Halting Problemhttps://plato.stanford.edu/entries/turing-machine/#HaltProb[00:30:25] Alfred Tarski (1901-1983), Mario Gómez-Torrentehttps://plato.stanford.edu/entries/tarski/[00:41:50] DPLLhttps://www.cs.princeton.edu/~zkincaid/courses/fall18/readings/SATHandbook-CDCL.pdf[00:49:50] Tarski's undefinability theorem (1936), Alfred Tarskihttps://plato.stanford.edu/entries/tarski-truth/[00:51:45] Boolean Algebra mathematical foundations, J. Donald Monkhttps://plato.stanford.edu/entries/boolalg-math/[01:02:35] Belief Revision Theory and AGM Postulates, Sven Ove Hanssonhttps://plato.stanford.edu/entries/logic-belief-revision/[01:05:35] Quantifier elimination in atomless boolean algebra, H. Jerome Keislerhttps://people.math.wisc.edu/~hkeisler/random.pdf[01:08:35] Quantifier elimination in Tau language specification, Ohad Asorhttps://tau.ai/Theories-and-Applications-of-Boolean-Algebras-0.29.pdf[01:11:50] Tau Net blockchain platformhttps://tau.net/[01:19:20] Tau blockchain's innovative approach treating blockchain code itself as a contracthttps://tau.net/Whitepaper.pdf