Sometimes shame runs so deep that the usual fixes—like getting vulnerable or sharing your story—just don’t work.

In this conversation, psychologist Dr. Therese Mascardo sits down with psychotherapist and author Dr. Zoe Shaw (Stronger in the Difficult Places) to unpack complex shame: why it lingers, why “share and be seen” isn’t always enough, and what real healing looks like.

You’ll learn the difference between guilt and shame, how high achievers hide behind perfectionism, why women use hedging words like “I think” or “maybe,” and how to speak with certainty. Plus, Dr. Zoe’s “100 Rejections” strategy for building resilience and freedom from fear.

Quotes from this episode:

“Guilt usually tells the truth. Shame always lies.”

“Find your shame by noticing everywhere you want to hide.”

“Healing isn’t about making shame disappear—it’s about changing your relationship with it.”

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit exploringtherapy.substack.com