Computers, Coffee, and Beer

Why do the "worst" programming languages win? Two engineers who helped build the modern internet go head-to-head on PHP, JavaScript, C++, and the languages that SHOULD have won — plus whether LLMs can actually be trusted to write code.

Keith Adams (built the HHVM JIT compiler at Facebook, VMware employee ~80, now at Slack) and Julien Verlaguet (Skip Labs CEO) debate the messy reality of software engineering. 

Why did JavaScript and PHP — the "poster boys" of quirky, idiosyncratic design — become the backbone of the web while technically superior languages like OCaml stayed niche? And in an era of AI coding assistants, does "taste" still matter?

🎧 From the engineers behind HHVM, VMware, and Skip Labs.

Chapters:
00:00 — Intro: Hits in programming languages
02:27 — The x86 analogy: messy tech that wins commercially
05:00 — JavaScript, the poster boy for "worse is better"
07:00 — Non-transitive equality & the horrors of type coercion
11:00 — The Lisp Core: what dynamic languages could have been
13:00 — The Repurposed JIT phenomenon (overfitting in VMs)
19:00 — Why popular languages make tool-building "impossible"
29:00 — How PHP won the web
32:00 — OCaml's mystery: why the "perfect" language lost
45:00 — C++'s "false advertisement" (no real abstractions)
1:22:13 — Can LLMs develop taste?
1:29:15 — AGI isn't around the corner; LLMs can't be trusted yet
1:37:23 — 2050: when machines understand code better than us

More from Computers, Coffee & Beer:

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From the Computers, Coffee & Beer podcast — Keith Adams and Julien Verlaguet dig into what  who helped build the modern internet sharing their honest takes on the biggest ideas in tech.

🎧 Full episodes on YouTube + your favorite podcast app.
 @ComputersCoffeeandBeer  

📩 For Business Inquiries: [email protected] 


=============================

Channel About: 

Computers, Coffee, & Beer is hosted by Keith Adams and Julien Verlaguet — two engineers who helped shape the modern internet and have the war stories to prove it. 

Keith built the HHVM JIT compiler at Facebook, helped virtualize the world at VMware (employee ~80), and went on to Slack before founding Pebblebed, an early-stage VC firm for technically ambitious founders. 

Julien created the Hack programming language, spent years writing safety-critical compiler software for Airbus and nuclear plants, and now runs Skip Labs. 

Together they dig into the systems, languages, and decisions behind the technology that actually runs the world — told by two people who were in the room when it happened.

=============================

#programming #programminglanguages #javascript #php  #softwareengineering #ai  #coding

Two veteran Facebook engineers reveal how they saved the company from its own code — by building a compiler that turned the world's most mocked programming language into the backbone of a platform used by billions.

Keith Adams (who built the HHVM JIT) and Julien Verlaguet (who created Hack) go deep on the inside story no one's told: how a "bunch of clowns pushing PHP" faced down Facebook's spiraling server costs and won.

In this episode:
🔥 Why Julian thought Facebook was "not serious people" — and what changed his mind
💣 The hyper shell endpoint: a production root shell anyone could hit with a URL parameter
🖥️ How HPHP (ahead-of-time compiler) worked — and why it failed spectacularly
⚡ The JIT compiler pivot: why "there are many ways to be slow and few ways to be fast"
🧠 The "repurposed JIT phenomenon" — why you can't just drop PHP into the JVM or V8
📉 The dopamine shift: learning to celebrate removing complexity instead of adding optimizations
🏆 How HHVM saved Facebook billions in server costs and reshaped engineering culture forever

⏱️ Timestamps:
0:00 — Julian's first impression: "Facebook was just clowns pushing PHP"
3:20 — Keith's VMware origin story (employee ~80)
7:00 — The PHP monolith: "git blame zuck" and select star from users
13:00 — The hyper shell endpoint — Facebook's most insane production hack
21:25 — What HHVM actually is (and why it's not just a faster PHP)
33:50 — The HPHP era: compiling PHP to C++, and why it broke
42:10 — The mental model shift: from interpreter to JIT compiler
52:40 — "There are many ways to be slow and few ways to be fast"
57:20 — The dopamine hit of removing notes vs. making things faster
1:05:21 — HHVM's legacy and what it taught us about language design

🎙️ Computers, Coffee, & Beer is hosted by Keith Adams and Julien Verlaguet — two engineers who helped shape the modern internet and have the war stories to prove it.

🎧 Full episodes on YouTube + your favorite podcast app.
@ComputersCoffeeandBeer

📧 For Business Inquiries: [email protected]


=============================

Channel About:

Computers, Coffee, & Beer is hosted by Keith Adams and Julien Verlaguet — two engineers who helped shape the modern internet and have the war stories to prove it.

Keith built the HHVM JIT compiler at Facebook, helped virtualize the world at VMware (employee ~80), and went on to Slack before founding Pebblebed, an early-stage VC firm for technically ambitious founders.

Julien created the Hack programming language, spent years writing safety-critical compiler software for Airbus and nuclear plants, and now runs Skip Labs.

Together they dig into the systems, languages, and decisions behind the technology that actually runs the world — told by two people who were in the room when it happened.

=============================

#hhvm  #php  #facebook  #compilerdesign  #softwareengineering  #programming  #techhistory  #JustInTimeCompilation #hack  #ComputersCoffeeBeer

Is learning to code still worth it in 2026 — or has AI and vibe coding made programming obsolete?

Two veteran engineers who helped build the modern internet settle the debate. Keith Adams (built the HHVM JIT compiler at Facebook, employee ~80 at VMware, early Slack engineer) and Julien Verlaguet (CEO of Skip Labs) share their unfiltered take on whether you should still learn to code — or if vibe coding with LLMs is enough.

In this episode:
🖥️ How Keith and Julien both learned to code at age 6-8 — on an Apple IIe and an Amstrad
🧠 Why having a "mental model of the machine" matters more than ever
🤖 Why LLMs are "amplifiers for experts" — not replacements for novices
💥 The problem with vibe coding: "you still have to read the code"
🧘 Why programming teaches humility (the machine tells you you're wrong — every day)
🎓 The massive challenge facing CS educators in the AI era
🔮 Julien's "Turing Test" for when AI actually replaces programmersThe verdict: "Should you learn to code? My god, yes. First of all, because it's wonderful. Secondly, because it's going to make you better at your software engineering job — which isn't going anywhere."


⏱️ Timestamps:
0:00 — The TLDR: Yes, you still need to learn to code
2:48 — Keith's origin story: an Apple IIe at age 6
4:23 — Julien's origin story: copying games from an Amstrad manual
25:00 — Why LLMs amplify experts but don't replace them
30:20 — The "mental model of the machine" — and why it's the key skill
39:00 — Programming teaches humility (and it's healthy)
44:12 — Vibe coding: what it is and why it fails
51:54 — Julien's AI Turing Test for programmers
1:01:00 — The final verdict: learn to code, it's "f***ing awesome"


🎧 Full episodes on YouTube + your favorite podcast app.
 @ComputersCoffeeandBeer  

📩 For Business Inquiries: [email protected] 


=============================

Channel About: 

Computers, Coffee, & Beer is hosted by Keith Adams and Julien Verlaguet — two engineers who helped shape the modern internet and have the war stories to prove it. 

Keith built the HHVM JIT compiler at Facebook, helped virtualize the world at VMware (employee ~80), and went on to Slack before founding Pebblebed, an early-stage VC firm for technically ambitious founders. 

Julien created the Hack programming language, spent years writing safety-critical compiler software for Airbus and nuclear plants, and now runs Skip Labs. 

Together they dig into the systems, languages, and decisions behind the technology that actually runs the world — told by two people who were in the room when it happened.

=============================
#learntocode  #ai  #vibecoding #coding  #softwareengineering  #aicoding  #programming  #techpodcast #ShouldYouLearnToCode

Vibe coding is rewriting the rules — Two veteran engineers who helped build the internet explain why LLMs and AI coding may render the programming languages they spent decades building obsolete.

Keith Adams (HHVM, Facebook) and Julien Verlaguet (Skip Labs, ex-Facebook) go deep on how coding with AI is reshaping the craft they've spent decades mastering.

This isn't a surface-level AI hype conversation — it's a systems-level
argument about TypeScript's dominance, the hidden genius of linear types, c++, why reactive programming will be the next bottleneck, and whether Rust's borrow checker is the future or a dead end.


⏱️ Timestamps:
0:00 — The big question: Do LLMs change programming languages?
1:17 — Why TypeScript is winning the AI era
4:28 — LLMs and C++: surprisingly good, but why?
8:47 — TypeScript might evolve based on what LLMs need
11:07 — The TypeScript security bomb nobody's talking about
12:36 — Code reuse in an LLM world: precious or cheap?
17:01 — Keith's war story: Replacing PHP at Facebook with Hack
20:55 — How your programming language shapes your thinking
25:03 — The "system programmer" mindset and why their APIs suck
35:21 — Julian's OCaml conversion: "It just worked the first time"
38:34 — Types as lightweight formal methods
44:10 — Linear types, garbage collection, and the Curry-Howard correspondence
55:39 — Reactor programming: the next frontier for LLM coding tools
1:00:07 — Advice to a 19-year-old programmer in 2026
1:08:15 — "LLMs are like steroids" — they amplify what you already are
1:13:47 — The ugly truth about big company engineering incentives

🎙️ Computers, Coffee, & Beer is hosted by Keith Adams and Julien Verlaguet — two engineers who helped shape the modern internet and have the war stories to prove it.

🎧 Full episodes on YouTube + your favorite podcast app.
 @ComputersCoffeeandBeer  

📩 For Business Inquiries: [email protected] 


=============================

Channel About: 

Computers, Coffee, & Beer is hosted by Keith Adams and Julien Verlaguet — two engineers who helped shape the modern internet and have the war stories to prove it. 

Keith built the HHVM JIT compiler at Facebook, helped virtualize the world at VMware (employee ~80), and went on to Slack before founding Pebblebed, an early-stage VC firm for technically ambitious founders. 

Julien created the Hack programming language, spent years writing safety-critical compiler software for Airbus and nuclear plants, and now runs Skip Labs. 

Together they dig into the systems, languages, and decisions behind the technology that actually runs the world — told by two people who were in the room when it happened.

=============================
#vibecoding #ai #programming #llms #coding #softwareengineering #airevolution

Julien Verlaguet didn't just write code at Facebook — he tried to change the language 4 billion people's apps were built on.

In this episode of Computers, Coffee, & Beer, Julien tells Keith Adams the full inside story of creating Hack: a gradually typed dialect of PHP that brought static analysis, type safety, and sub-50ms error feedback to one of the largest codebases on Earth.

It started as a security project. It became an "adventure" — one that involved pitched battles with the HHVM team, developers who associated type systems with traumatic C++ compile times, and the realization that Facebook's "spaghetti noodle" dependency graph made strict typing nearly impossible.

If you've ever wondered what it takes to introduce a new programming paradigm inside a company running at Facebook's scale — the politics, the engineering, the human friction — this is that story.

🔗 Follow Computers, Coffee, & Beer for more war stories from the engineers who built the modern internet.

Chapters:
0:00 - Intro: Meet Julien Verlaguet
2:15 - Why Hack existed: PHP's security problem
7:17 - The pitch to the HHVM team (Keith's "okay kiddo" moment)
15:30 - Gradual vs. optional typing explained
28:00 - Facebook's spaghetti dependency graph problem
45:00 - Building a sub-50ms type checker
1:09:09 - The nullable salt vulnerability (why weak typing is dangerous)
1:15:26 - "TypeScript for PHP" — Hack's legacy
1:51:46 - The C++ developer's scar: winning over type system skeptics
1:54:53 - The George Lucas / Steven Spielberg analogy for innovation

🎧 Full episodes on YouTube + your favorite podcast app.
 @ComputersCoffeeandBeer  

📩 For Business Inquiries: [email protected] 


=============================

Channel About: 

Computers, Coffee, & Beer is hosted by Keith Adams and Julien Verlaguet — two engineers who helped shape the modern internet and have the war stories to prove it. 

Keith built the HHVM JIT compiler at Facebook, helped virtualize the world at VMware (employee ~80), and went on to Slack before founding Pebblebed, an early-stage VC firm for technically ambitious founders. 

Julien created the Hack programming language, spent years writing safety-critical compiler software for Airbus and nuclear plants, and now runs Skip Labs. 

Together they dig into the systems, languages, and decisions behind the technology that actually runs the world — told by two people who were in the room when it happened.

=============================

#Hack #PHP #Facebook #Programming #TypeSystems #HHVM #SoftwareEngineering #DevTools #ComputersCoffeeBeer

Keith Adams (VMware, Facebook, Slack, PebbleBed) and Julien Verlaguet (creator of the Hack programming language, founder of Skip Labs) dig into one of the most contested questions in tech: are LLMs actually thinking?

From Keith's early (failed) experiments training a tiny stack VM at Facebook AI Research, to Ilya Sutskever's prophetic 2014 NIPS talk, to the present-day race between Anthropic, OpenAI, and the open-source world, this episode covers the full arc of how we got here — and where programming languages, coding agents, and AI security are headed next.

Topics include:

• The "glass of beer" theory of LLMs and why Keith was wrong about Ilya
• Why LLMs crush coding but struggle with the physical world
• TypeScript vs. Python — which language will AI-native development run on?
• Julien's framework for getting dramatically better results from coding agents (hint: it's about state)
• The Anthropic Mythos announcement: real capability or marketing stunt?
• China, open-source models, and the 6-month moat problem
• Whether there's an escape velocity data flywheel in AI coding — and who has it

IN THIS EPISODE:
0:00 — Are LLMs "thinking" or just pattern-matching?
5:54 — Why coding is the perfect test bed for AI intelligence
10:50 — The glass of beer analogy: simulating the world one token at a time
18:10 — LLMs consume 10,000x more data than a human lifetime — does it matter?
21:30 — Should we design programming languages for alien minds?
41:56 — The "never call this method" incident (AI's literal brain)
1:01:47 — Why LLMs will obliterate humans at finding security vulnerabilities
1:08:23 — The six-month moat: why no AI advantage lasts
1:15:47 — Geopolitics, open source, and who controls AGI
1:31:32 — Elon Musk, data centers in space, and printing out lines of code

If you're a software engineer wondering whether AI is coming for your job — or just curious about what happens when two systems-level thinkers who've been in the trenches since VMware's early days get real about the future — this is your podcast.

🎙️ New episodes every week. Subscribe so you don't miss the next round.

From the Computers, Coffee & Beer podcast — Keith Adams and Julien Verlaguet dig into what  who helped build the modern internet sharing their honest takes on the biggest ideas in tech.


🎧 Full episodes on YouTube + your favorite podcast app.
@ComputersCoffeeandBeer  

📩 For Business Inquiries: [email protected] 


=============================

Channel About: 

Computers, Coffee, & Beer is hosted by Keith Adams and Julien Verlaguet — two engineers who helped shape the modern internet and have the war stories to prove it. 

Keith built the HHVM JIT compiler at Facebook, helped virtualize the world at VMware (employee ~80), and went on to Slack before founding Pebblebed, an early-stage VC firm for technically ambitious founders. 

Julien created the Hack programming language, spent years writing safety-critical compiler software for Airbus and nuclear plants, and now runs Skip Labs. 

Together they dig into the systems, languages, and decisions behind the technology that actually runs the world — told by two people who were in the room when it happened.

=============================
#ai #llm #artificialintelligence #softwareengineering  #techpodcast  #programminglanguages  #machinelearning  #aivshuman  #futureofcoding  #podcast