The AUKUS alliance made between the United Kingdom, Australia and the United States saw the unveiling of plans for eight new nuclear-powered submarines, costing $368 billion in total.

The plans come as tensions rise in the Pacific, especially between China and the United States.

Whether or not New Zealand should join the alliance is up for debate.

Kaze interviewed Mark Roach, a spokesperson for the Anti-AUKUS Coalition, and asked him why he thinks New Zealand shouldn’t join AUKUS.