Are we powerless against the march of modern technology, or can we reclaim our agency to foster true human connection? 

Writer, cultural historian, and photographer Dr. Dan Turello joins host PJ Wehry to rethink our relationship with technology and explore its potential to improve the human condition. Turello, a technology and humanity fellow at the Center for Future of Mind, AI, and Society at Florida Atlantic University, unpacks his book, Connection: How Technology Can Make Us Better Humans. 

Together they discuss moving past tech-pessimism and determinism to understand how our tools and social structures shape our lives.

In this conversation they explore: 

• Why we need to view technology not just as screens and algorithms, but as the fundamental ways humans relate, negotiate, and build community
• The surprising lessons on counterculture, wealth, and institutional bureaucracy we can learn from 13th-century Franciscan monks like St. Francis and Jacopone da Todi
• How an autonomic nervous system crisis forced a shift from a purely intellectual "neck-up" mindset to a deeply embodied way of living
• Reclaiming our agency over our devices—like choosing a flip phone—to dictate how and when we connect with the world
• Why portrait photography acts as an unpredictable, embodied dance of trust and authentic expression rather than a cerebral pursuit
• Acknowledging the cognitive impact of social media by giving readers permission to consume books in a non-linear, "choose your own adventure" style

This is a conversation for anyone exhausted by tech-anxiety who wants to build healthier, more intentional relationships with their devices and their own bodies.

Make sure to check out Dr. Turello's book: Connection: How Technology Can Make Us Better Humans 👉 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FXNQQX17

Check out our website at chasingleviathan.com 

Who thinks that they can subdue Leviathan? Strength resides in its neck; dismay goes before it. When it rises up, the mighty are terrified. Nothing on earth is its equal. It is without fear. It looks down on all who are haughty; it is king over all who are proud. 

These words inspired PJ Wehry to create Chasing Leviathan. Chasing Leviathan was born out of two ideals: that truth is worth pursuing but will never be subjugated, and the discipline of listening is one of the most important habits anyone can develop.

Timestamps
0:00 Introducing Dan Trello
1:36 Three Origin Stories Behind the Book
3:43 Franciscans, Battlestar Galactica, and Fear of Tech
5:37 When the Body Revolts and Embodiment Practices
10:01 Climbing, Poetry, and Non-Logical Knowing
11:33 Emotions, History, and the Wolf Story
13:43 What Franciscans Teach About Technology
17:44 Medieval Finance and Franciscan Resistance
19:33 Jacopone’s Radical Poverty and Paradox
24:36 Asceticism, Institutions, and Technology
26:52 Bodies, Nature, and Harmonious Tech Use
28:03 The Mammoth Fable and Relational Technology
32:35 Facebook, Phalanx, and Social Arrangements
35:10 Flip Phones, Smartphones, and Agency
35:54 Embodiment Practices and Photography
38:47 Can We Still Read Long Books Deeply
43:33 How Academics Read and Partial Reading
47:13 Living Embodied in an Overconsuming Culture
49:11 Concluding Thoughts