In the first part of the program, author and Community Environmental Legal Defense Fund’s education director Ben Price joins the program to talk about his new book, Wouldn’t You Say, A Collection of Essays on Environment and Community. In the book and in our conversation, Ben explains that what we’re seeing today is not a perversion of the promise of America, it’s actually a proof of concept, a continuation of foundational ideologies never meant to protect we, the people, and certainly not to protect the ecosystems of which we are a part. Ben discusses rights of nature not as a legal north star but as a need to shift our thinking about relationships, between ourselves, the law, and empirical reality. Next up, Dr. Kim Wilson and Maya Schenwar join the show to discuss the book which they co-edited, We Grow the World Together: Parenting Toward Abolition. Maya and Kim discuss this multi-generational project which also combines voices from the inside and outside, highlighting the contrasts and connections between the carceral systems of literal and figurative cages, and how prisons are and have been the canaries in the coal mine for the restrictions on our basic rights. They discuss abolition as a tearing down but perhaps even more so of a building up, how kids are integral to the creative imagination necessary for building new worlds, and the emergent possibilities outside of our current death-making system.

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