Conversations That Matter

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What happened to the Episcopal Church and America's Protestant establishment?

In this conversation, we trace the transformation of the Episcopal Church and other mainline Protestant institutions, from their historic place in American religious life to the rise of theological liberalism, institutional gatekeeping, managerialism, and progressive politics.

Our guest shares his own journey into Anglicanism and the Episcopal ministry, including his years at Yale, his growing concerns about the direction of the denomination, and his attempts to remain faithful while working within an increasingly hostile institutional environment.

We discuss the controversy surrounding sexuality and marriage in the Episcopal Church, the impact of Gene Robinson's consecration, the role of seminaries and denominational leadership, and the ways institutional pressures can discourage clergy from speaking openly.

The conversation also examines Operation Reconquista and the broader question of whether conservative Christians can recover institutions that have been captured by a different theological and cultural vision. We discuss what it means to leave an established denomination, the personal and financial costs of taking unpopular stands, and what young Christians considering ministry should do when the institutions around them have changed.

Finally, we discuss the role of the pulpit in public life and why pastors must be willing to speak boldly about the issues confronting their congregations and communities.

#EpiscopalChurch #Anglicanism #Christianity #ChurchHistory #MainlineProtestantism #ChristianCulture

00:00 Why I Was Drawn to Anglicanism

02:19 Conversion, C.S. Lewis, and the Gospel

07:02 Evangelical Christianity at Yale

08:56 The Episcopal Church's Crisis in the 1990s

13:18 Unitarianism, Darwinism, and the Loss of Christian Belief

22:45 From Yale to the Ministry

30:20 The Conservative Blacklist

35:20 Gene Robinson and the Breaking of the Episcopal Church

40:58 How Managerialism Changed the Church

49:20 2020, DEI, and the Decision to Speak Out

54:34 Operation Reconquista and Leaving the Episcopal Church

01:16:08 Advice for the Next Generation

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This week on the Conversations That Matter podcast, Jon Harris covers a wide-ranging news roundup touching on the Southern Baptist Convention, Christian persecution, the Catholic Church, the Christian Nationalism debate, Steve Lawson, and what Jon calls the “true culture of death.”

Jon begins with a personal update following a house fire in his wife’s family, along with reflections on the recent Restoring Virtue Conference and upcoming speaking engagements.

From there, he discusses Eric Erickson’s criticism of figures on the Right and the importance of clearly defining neo-Nazi ideology rather than making broad accusations. He also examines recent controversy surrounding Candace Owens, a new Vatican document on interreligious dialogue, and claims surrounding the discovery of Noah’s Ark in Turkey.

The episode then turns to the Christian Nationalism debate, including J.D. Greer’s arguments concerning church and state, religious liberty, and the role of Christianity in public life. Jon also discusses Southern Baptist figures Jason Little and Walter Strickland, including Strickland’s comments concerning Nat Turner and liberation theology.

Jon then addresses the changing Christian legal movement, Steve Lawson’s recent book concerning his adultery and disqualification from ministry, and questions from listeners.

The final portion of the podcast examines assisted suicide, declining marriage and family formation, adult toy consumption, gender distrust, juvenileization, higher education, student loans, Title IX, and policies under the Trump administration. 

Jon concludes by discussing comments from Donald Trump and Benjamin Netanyahu concerning persecuted Christians in the Middle East and the broader decline of Christianity in the region.

Listen through to the end for Jon’s thoughts on why Christians should focus less on theoretical political battles and more on the practical challenges directly in front of them.

00:00 Personal Update: House Fire and Restoring Virtue

10:40 The News Roundup Begins

11:45 Eric Erickson and the Debate Over Neo-Nazism

22:40 Candace Owens and Online Political Commentary

29:00 The Vatican, Vatican II, and Interreligious Dialogue

38:05 The Search for Noah's Ark

42:45 J.D. Greer and Christian Nationalism

61:45 Jason Little and the Southern Baptist Convention

63:00 Walter Strickland, Liberation Theology, and Nat Turner

77:00 The Christian Legal Movement and John W. Whitehead

84:00 Steve Lawson's Confession and Return to Public Ministry

89:30 Listener Questions

94:00 Assisted Suicide and the Culture of Death

95:00 Juvenileization, Marriage, and Gender Distrust

106:00 Trump, Student Loans, and Higher Education

109:40 Title IX and Gender Transition Treatments

114:30 Christian Persecution, Trump, and Netanyahu

123:50 Final Thoughts

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What actually makes someone a strong Christian?

A viral post claimed that the strongest Christians watch Disney movies, avoid politics, wear bikinis, drink alcohol, shop at Target, and celebrate Halloween. The argument was that Christians who impose restrictions on these things are essentially modern Pharisees.

There is an important truth here: Christians should not invent laws and impose them on other believers as though those rules came from God. But there is also a problem with defining Christian freedom by a list of cultural behaviors.

In this episode, I examine the distinction between Christian liberty, legalism, conscience, modesty, discernment, and genuine godliness. Scripture does not present godliness primarily as a collection of cultural boxes that we check. It begins with the character of the heart and manifests itself in how we live.

The question is not simply, “Can a Christian do this?” The deeper question is: What actually marks a godly Christian?

The episode also considers the “weaker brother,” the misuse of Christian liberty, alcohol, Halloween, modesty, political involvement, consumer choices, pornography, and the danger of creating our own standards of righteousness.

Christianity is marked by inward virtue that manifests itself outwardly.

00:00 — The Tweet About “Strong Christians”

01:22 — Are These Really Issues of Christian Liberty?

02:58 — The Weak Brother and Christian Conscience

05:16 — When the “Weak Brother” Becomes a Human Shield

06:25 — Alcohol, Communion, and Christian Freedom

08:34 — What Actually Makes Someone Godly?

10:42 — The Biblical Marks of a Godly Man

11:57 — Modesty, Virtue, and Godly Women

13:08 — The Problem With a Pornographic Culture

15:34 — What Strong Christians Are Actually Known For

17:24 — Halloween, Alcohol, and Circumstantial Wisdom

19:04 — How to Avoid Becoming a Pharisee

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The Democratic Party appears to be changing its tune on transgender athletes competing in women’s sports.

Politicians including Gavin Newsom, Pete Buttigieg, and James Talarico have recently used the language of fairness and safety when discussing women’s sports. That represents a significant change from the rhetoric surrounding transgender rights and school sports during the Obama and Biden years.

But is this a genuine change in conviction, or is it a political retreat?

In this episode, I look at the history of the Democratic position on transgender issues, the growing public resistance to males competing in women’s sports, and the political calculations surrounding the issue. I also examine the difference between voters motivated by deeply held convictions and voters who simply do not want political policies to produce consequences in their own families and communities.

The larger question is whether the Democratic retreat represents a change in principle or simply a strategic pause until the political environment changes.

Finally, I discuss why arguments about fairness and public opinion are not enough. If our understanding of men and women is ultimately grounded in God's created order, then political arguments cannot simply rest on whatever happens to be popular at a particular moment.

00:00 Democrats and the Trans Sports Reversal

02:18 Is This a Genuine Change of Heart?

04:26 The Gender Debate and the Nature Argument

07:20 Remembering the Biden and Obama Years

09:24 Why Democrats Are Changing Their Message

10:30 The Polling Problem for Transgender Sports

12:30 Convictional Voters vs. Convenience Voters

15:42 What Democrats Have Learned From the Backlash

18:05 Why “Fairness” Is Their New Argument

23:48 God's Rights, Nature, and the Foundation of Society

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To Support the Podcast:

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Jon Harris sits down with William Wolfe of the Center for Baptist Leadership to discuss what has happened since Willie Rice became president of the SBC and what comes next.

The conversation covers the Truth and Unity Amendment, the effort to prevent women from serving as pastors in the SBC, appointments to committees and trustee boards, financial transparency, restoring trust in the Cooperative Program, the International Mission Board's vaccine requirements, and the continuing influence of progressive and DEI ideas within SBC entities.

Wolfe also explains why he believes the biggest danger may no longer be an obvious return to the previous "woke" era, but a period of what he calls "managed decline" in which institutions become less willing to take clear and courageous positions.

The discussion also examines Willie Rice's leadership, the upcoming fight over the Truth and Unity Amendment, and what conservatives and ordinary Southern Baptists should understand about the institutional battle ahead.

00:00 Intro

01:00 The Fight After Willie Rice's Election

02:50 Filling SBC Committees and Trustee Boards

03:34 The Truth and Unity Amendment

04:36 What Willie Rice Has Accomplished

06:11 The Future Direction of the SBC

07:40 Is Willie Rice His Own Man?

09:54 The Push to Ratify the Truth and Unity Amendment

10:52 Can Conservative Momentum Continue?

12:23 Restoring Trust in the SBC

13:30 The IMB and Vaccine Mandates

15:00 Are Progressive Forces Still Active in the SBC?

18:00 Opposition to the Truth and Unity Amendment

19:30 From Wokeness to "Managed Decline"

20:45 What Courageous Conservative Leadership Looks Like

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Dr. D. Millard Haskell joins Conversations That Matter to explain what happened to Christianity's influence in Canada and why Americans should pay attention.

Haskell, a sociologist and author of Christ or Collapse: The Case Against Godless Government, argues that the evidence points toward the social benefits of traditional Christianity. His research led him from liberal Christianity toward a conviction that Christian norms produce greater stability and flourishing.

The conversation then turns to Canada as a cautionary tale for the United States. We discuss multiculturalism, the decline of Christian influence, government and media, the controversy surrounding the Ezra Institute, Alberta's political future, and Canada's increasingly difficult environment for Christians who publicly defend traditional Christian beliefs.

Haskell also discusses Bill C-9, freedom of expression, political apathy, institutional capture, the loss of Christian influence in academia and government, and the growing reluctance of Canadian pastors to address controversial cultural issues.

Finally, we look at the different historical foundations of Canada and the United States and why Haskell believes America's Christian heritage must be actively preserved rather than simply assumed to continue.

00:00 — Introduction: Canada as a Warning to America

01:13 — Why Haskell Wrote Christ or Claps

04:19 — The Empirical Case for Christianity

06:25 — Canada as America's Cautionary Tale

09:00 — Multiculturalism, Alberta, and the Canadian Divide

11:00 — The Ezra Institute and the "Christian Nationalist" Controversy

24:40 — Bill C-9 and the Future of Christian Speech

28:00 — How Canada Lost Its Institutions

32:00 — Political Fatigue, Immigration, and the Next Generation

38:55 — Why America Held Onto Christianity Longer

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The 2026 midterms are approaching, and there is growing pressure on conservatives to sit out elections, reject Republican candidates, or pursue some kind of political accelerationism because Republicans have not accomplished everything conservatives hoped they would.

In this episode of Conversations That Matter, I make the case for why Christian conservatives should generally vote Republican in the midterms, while also explaining why voting is not a substitute for the much more important work of Christian discipleship and social renewal.

The key distinction is between practical politics and pragmatism. Pragmatism means changing your moral standards to achieve a desired political outcome. Practical judgment means recognizing the political circumstances you actually inhabit and using the tools available to you without changing your moral convictions. As I argue in the episode, morality does not change, but political circumstances and available options do.

I also discuss the temptation to abandon the Republican Party because it is imperfect, the dangers of accelerationism, what the experience of Europe can teach us, my own decision not to vote for Donald Trump in 2016, and why that calculation would be different in a competitive state.

Finally, I look at what the Trump administration and the MAGA movement have actually accomplished on issues including immigration, DEI, abortion, and foreign policy, and argue that conservatives should consider whether to build on those gains rather than simply destroy the political apparatus because it has not delivered everything they wanted.

The question is not whether Republicans are perfect. The question is what political options actually exist, what can be accomplished through them, and how Christians should exercise stewardship in the circumstances God has given us.

00:00 The Midterm Question

01:05 Voting Is Not Social Renewal

03:00 What Political Options Do We Actually Have?

05:45 Practical Politics vs. Pragmatism

09:00 The Problem With Accelerationism

10:25 Why Build on MAGA?

16:00 Stewardship and Imperfect Political Options

25:45 What Has MAGA Actually Accomplished?

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In this episode of Conversations That Matter, I examine the Presbyterian Church in America, Covenant College, and the broader question of whether Christian institutions are actually moving away from the ideas associated with the social justice movement or simply giving them new names.

I begin with several pieces of evangelical news, including the latest Southern Baptist compensation data for pastors and staff, the PCA's decision concerning Burke Parsons, and a complaint involving the Missouri Presbytery and the ordination of a same-sex-attracted man.

The main discussion concerns Covenant College's revised curriculum. Covenant has defended its approach as Christian, while critics such as Joe Rigney have questioned whether courses emphasizing diversity, cultural perspectives, identity, and critical theory represent genuine reform or continued ideological drift.

I look at the curriculum, faculty, and the ideas being presented to students, while also acknowledging that Covenant has good professors and that not every course or professor should be painted with the same brush. The central question is more basic: What direction is the institution going?

I also explain why Christians should be able to learn from other cultures without adopting the assumption that Western civilization requires a special set of alternative perspectives in order to recognize its own moral deficiencies. The Christian has Scripture, the church, and a long Christian intellectual tradition through which to evaluate his own civilization.

00:00 Why Christian Institutions Matter

04:08 The SBC’s Changing Pastor Compensation

10:16 Burke Parsons and the PCA Judicial Process

12:49 Same-Sex Attraction and Missouri Presbytery

14:15 Are Christian Universities Reversing Mission Drift?

17:49 Covenant College Changes Its Core Curriculum

20:16 Did Covenant College Put Woke Away?

24:30 Why Direction Matters More Than Individual Professors

29:44 The Evidence of Social Justice Thinking

42:15 Personnel Is Policy

50:12 How Social Justice Can Threaten the Gospel

54:58 Western Civilization, Diversity, and Critical Theory

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In this news roundup, I look at the controversy surrounding H-1B visas, the viral University of Texas football footage, and the argument over immigration, assimilation, race, culture, and the future of American identity. I also revisit the Lindsay Clancy jury and what the case reveals about the way people increasingly interpret moral questions through racial categories.

Then we get to Tucker Carlson and Abdul El-Sayed. What does it mean when prominent figures on the Right begin backing or defending political positions that would seem completely at odds with the Republican coalition? Is the Right actually beginning to converge with the Left on some of the most important questions facing the country?

I also discuss Christian persecution in China, the question of Islam and Western civilization, surrogacy and the changing meaning of family, and some genuinely encouraging stories about American courage and education.

The goal is not simply to react to the news. It is to step back, understand what is happening, and ask what these stories mean for Christians, conservatives, and the future of America.

00:00 Intro: The Hammer of Reality

03:41 The H-1B Debate Explodes

21:03 The Lindsay Clancy Jury

27:22 Race, Morality, and Civilizational Identity

48:13 Tucker Carlson and Abdul El-Sayed

58:33 El-Sayed, 9/11, and the Michigan Senate Race

1:02:33 A Test for Right-Wing Media

1:06:11 Christian Persecution in China

1:08:04 Islam and the West

1:11:05 Surrogacy, Family, and the Future

1:14:10 American Courage and the Good News

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To Support the Podcast: 

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