Conversations with Dead People

“I know the world feels like a hard place sometimes, but you’ve got people who love you.”

We live in interesting times, my friends. So returning guest Elizabeth Rambo and I first talk about how we’re both surviving the latest apocalypse, before diving into the uplifting palate cleanser that is Buffy the Vampire Slayer Season Six. To lighten the mood we discuss the divisive and possibly controversial(?) episodes 617, “Normal Again” and 618, “Entropy.” In the former, there’s discussion of Didgeridoo Demons,  metacommentary, and how literally to interpret the “Asylumverse.” And in the latter, scary, re-Vengeance Demonized Anya provides some much-needed humor; my Buffy-rage returns with a, well, a vengeance; and gyres widen.

Next: Elizabeth is back for more good fun times as we take on episodes 619, “Seeing Red” [Note: I am NOT looking forward to this one] and 620, “Villains.”

THE BREAKDOWN

Run Time: 01:32:05

00:00:55  -  Intro / Guest

00:09:20  -  Main Topic

01:28:20  -  Outro / Next

THE LIBRARY

Buffy Goes Dark: Essays on the Final Two Seasons of Buffy the Vampire Slayer on Television, edited by Lynne Y. Edwards, Elizabeth Rambo, and James B. South

Television Finales: From Howdy Doody to Girls, edited by Douglas L. Howard and David Bianculli

THE LINKS

“‘They told me Sunnydale was gonna be interesting’: Metaphorical Schizophrenia in Buffy the Vampire Slayer” by Vicki Japha, Watcher Junior 10.2 (Fall 2017)

“‘Those whom the powers wish to destroy, they first make mad’: the classical roots of madness in Buffy the Vampire Slayer” by Naomi Alderman (presented at Slayage 2004)

THE MUSIC

“Conversations (feat. Wesley Mead)” by Azura (2017)

“That Kind of Love” by Alison Krauss, Forget About It (

“I’m Going Slightly Mad” by Queen, Innuendo (1991)

THE SCHOLARS

Whedon Studies Association is a non-profit academic organization devoted to the study of the works of Joss Whedon and his associates. They put out Slayage: The Journal of Whedon Studies, and Watcher Junior​: The Undergraduate Journal of Whedon Studies, both blind peer-reviewed twice-yearly online publications. They also host the biennial Slayage Conference on the Whedonverses, which brings all these incredible scholars together to present papers, discuss ways of incorporating Whedon Studies in education, and basically just geek out together. 

http://www.whedonstudies.tv/

Look, my ability to establish and maintain a reliable podcasting schedule has degraded, to say the least, as this process has gone on. I know it. YOU know it. I’m sorry. But this past year of March and April has seriously thrown me off my groove, and not in the fun Disney way with llama faces and maniacal kitten laughter. It’s difficult I think for any of us to bring the fun in at the moment. But I will persevere! WE will persevere! We will get through this thing called Season Six if it’s the last thing we do. (Which it won’t be, because the threat of Season Seven looms menacingly in our future.)

Anyways, Jessica Hautsch is back with me again to share in the joy of James Marsters’ eyebrow acting in 614, “Older and Far Away.” She is also positively GIDDY that 615, “As You Were” is the very last time she’ll ever have to deal with Riley Finn. And how weird is it that Xander’s family cheers for him straight-up murdering a “circus folk” at his almost-but-not-quite wedding?

Next (Week? Month? Year?): Elizabeth Rambo returns to take on the uber-divisive episode 617, “Normal Again” and the 0h-yeah-that-was-an-episode 618, “Entropy.”

THE BREAKDOWN

Run Time: 01:53:25

00:00:55  - Intro / Guest

00:09:37  - Main Topic

01:50:00  - Outro / Next

THE LIBRARY

Library Closed For Filing - Please Come Back Tomorrow

THE MUSIC

“Conversations (feat. Wesley Mead)” by Azura (2017)

“Hells Bells” by AC/DC, Back in Black (1980)

THE SCHOLARS

Whedon Studies Association is a non-profit academic organization devoted to the study of the works of Joss Whedon and his associates. They put out Slayage: The Journal of Whedon Studies, and Watcher Junior​: The Undergraduate Journal of Whedon Studies, both blind peer-reviewed twice-yearly online publications. They also host the biennial Slayage Conference on the Whedonverses, which brings all these incredible scholars together to present papers, discuss ways of incorporating Whedon Studies in education, and basically just geek out together. 

http://www.whedonstudies.tv/

For my 50th birthday (ugh), my gift to you is the 50th episode (egads) of this podcast, which will focus on the 50th worst episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer. (I made that last part up...it’s probably higher on most “Worst Of” lists. It’s a meat process.) Joining me this time is my good friend and frequent collaborator, first-time guest Eric Sipple. Together we share the DoubleMeat Medley that is the forgettable patty of 611, “Gone” above the mid-bun, and the processed trauma of 613, “Dead Things” below the mid-bun. But it’s really that bland, stale mid-bun of 612, “Doublemeat Palace” that gives us indigestion.

Am I straining the metaphor here? Well, it IS Season Six, so when in Rome...

Next: Jessica Hautsch is back with us to take a look at 614, “Older and Far Away,” 615, “As You Were,” and 616, “Hell’s Bells.”

THE BREAKDOWN

Run Time: 01:23:05

00:00:55  - Intro / Guest

00:08:30  - Main Topic

01:18:48  - Outro / Next

THE LIBRARY

Broken Magic, by Eric Sipple

The Deli Counter of Justice, by Paul Smith, Eric Sipple, Arlo Wiley

THE LINKS

Gobbledygeek Podcast  - website - iTunes

The Avatar Returns Podcast  - website - iTunes

THE MUSIC

“Conversations (feat. Wesley Mead)” by Azura (2017)

“Out of this World” by Bush, Golden State (2001)

THE SCHOLARS

Whedon Studies Association is a non-profit academic organization devoted to the study of the works of Joss Whedon and his associates. They put out Slayage: The Journal of Whedon Studies, and Watcher Junior​: The Undergraduate Journal of Whedon Studies, both blind peer-reviewed twice-yearly online publications. They also host the biennial Slayage Conference on the Whedonverses, which brings all these incredible scholars together to present papers, discuss ways of incorporating Whedon Studies in education, and basically just geek out together. 

http://www.whedonstudies.tv/

James Rocha, Assistant Professor of Philosophy at Fresno State and co-author, along with his wife Dr. Mona Rocha, of Joss Whedon, Anarchist? A Unified Theory of the Films and Television Series, returns to help ease us into the poor decision making of the Scooby Gang, and the heavy-handed “metaphor” application of the writers headed into the darker half of the darkest season. In episode 608, “Tabula Rasa,” James does his best to get into the philosophy of it all, while I just question if Buffy has jumped the shark. In 609, “Smashed,” we talk about Willow’s reasons for finally de-ratting Amy; the debate over Spike’s reasons for trying to bite the blonde in the alley is rehashed; and Buffy (the “good” Slayer) has now slept with twice as many named characters as Faith (the “bad” Slayer). And 610, “Wrecked” reminds us how important Merrie Melodies cartoons are; the so-called subtext becomes painful, bludgeoning text hammered directly into our innocent, trusting faces; and my oft-referenced issues with one particular writer are made just a little more clear. For better or worse.

Next: co-host of The Avatar Returns podcast, co-author of The Deli Counter of Justice, my friend Eric Sipple joins the conversation for the first time to discuss episodes 611, “Gone,” 612, “Doublemeat Palace,” and 613, “Dead Things.”

THE BREAKDOWN

Run Time: 01:54:55

00:00:55  - Intro / Guest

00:03:26  - Main Topic

01:51:15  - Outro / Next

THE LIBRARY

Joss Whedon, Anarchist? A Unified Theory of the Films and Television Series, by James Rocha and Mona Rocha

THE MUSIC

“Conversations (feat. Wesley Mead)” by Azura (2017)

“Goodbye to You” by Michelle Branch, The Spirit Room (2002)

THE SCHOLARS

Whedon Studies Association is a non-profit academic organization devoted to the study of the works of Joss Whedon and his associates. They put out Slayage: The Journal of Whedon Studies, and Watcher Junior​: The Undergraduate Journal of Whedon Studies, both blind peer-reviewed twice-yearly online publications. They also host the biennial Slayage Conference on the Whedonverses, which brings all these incredible scholars together to present papers, discuss ways of incorporating Whedon Studies in education, and basically just geek out together. 

http://www.whedonstudies.tv/

So you know how time flows differently from one dimension to the next? Yeah, I was sucked into a hell dimension where it felt like only a week went by, but here in the real world you guys have suffered through three Conversations with Dead People-free months! Or maybe I was in Heaven...I think I was in Heaven. YOU guys were stuck here in THIS hell dimension without me. But anyways, I apologize for the unsolicited hiatus. The good news is I’m back! The better news is I’m back with Buffy the Vampire Slayer episode 607, “Once More, With Feeling.” The only so-so news is that guest Arlo Wiley is back too. And we may, we just may sing every word of our discussion. I mean you take the good, you take the bad, right?

The BEST news? Because you demanded it, as of 10:08 into the podcast the naughty words moratorium is officially ended. Bring on that EXPLICIT CONTENT warning!

Next: I’m joined by Assistant Philosophy professor and Slayage: The Journal of Whedon Studies contributor James Rocha, back to discuss episodes 608, “Tabula Rasa,” 609, “Smashed,” and 610, “Wrecked.” It’s about to start getting rough, folks.

THE BREAKDOWN

Run Time: 01:40:05

00:01:00  - Intro / Guest

00:05:07  - Main Topic

00:10:08  - Someone has a potty mouth

01:35:40  - Outro / Next

THE LIBRARY

Music, Sound, and Silence in Buffy the Vampire Slayer, edited by Paul Attinello, Janet K. Half yard, and Vaness Knights

THE MUSIC

“Going Through The Motions” by Sarah Michelle Gellar & Orchestra, Buffy the Vampire Slayer - Once More, With Feeling (Soundtrack from the TV Show) (2002)

“Where Do We Go From Here?” by Buffy the Vampire Slayer Cast, Buffy the Vampire Slayer - Once More, With Feeling (Soundtrack from the TV Show) (2002)

THE SCHOLARS

Whedon Studies Association is a non-profit academic organization devoted to the study of the works of Joss Whedon and his associates. They put out Slayage: The Journal of Whedon Studies, and Watcher Junior​: The Undergraduate Journal of Whedon Studies, both blind peer-reviewed twice-yearly online publications. They also host the biennial Slayage Conference on the Whedonverses, which brings all these incredible scholars together to present papers, discuss ways of incorporating Whedon Studies in education, and basically just geek out together. 

http://www.whedonstudies.tv/

“Mist...cemetery...Halloween. Should end well.”

Stephanie Graves is back with me to discuss two more episodes of the Happy Funtime Show, otherwise known as Buffy the Vampire Slayer Season 6. In episode 605, “Life Serial,” we get some genuine laughs as the show finds the humor in young adults struggling to find their way in the grown up world. There’s ANOTHER damn numbered shirt; Jonathan has a magic bone; and the second most important character in the entire series (after Spike) finally shows up: CLEM! And then, in 606, “All the Way,” Tara’s not much into timber; Giles cleans his glasses; and Dawn goes parking.

Next: it’s gonna be an all-singing, all-dancing podcast extravaganza as we finally get to the Big Show...episode 607, “Once More, With Feeling.” (Note: I will not actually be singing or dancing.)

THE BREAKDOWN

Run Time: 01:21:20

00:00:55 - Intro / Guest

00:04:06 - Main Topic

01:17:00 - Outro / Next

THE LIBRARY

Joss Whedon vs. the Horror Tradition: The Production of Genre in Buffy and Beyond, edited by K. K. Woofter and Lorna Jowett

THE MUSIC

“Conversations (feat. Wesley Mead)” by Azura (2017)

“Around My Smile” by Hope Sandoval & The Warm Inventions, Bavarian Fruit Bread (2001)

THE SCHOLARS

Whedon Studies Association is a non-profit academic organization devoted to the study of the works of Joss Whedon and his associates. They put out Slayage: The Journal of Whedon Studies, and Watcher Junior​: The Undergraduate Journal of Whedon Studies, both blind peer-reviewed twice-yearly online publications. They also host the biennial Slayage Conference on the Whedonverses, which brings all these incredible scholars together to present papers, discuss ways of incorporating Whedon Studies in education, and basically just geek out together. 

http://www.whedonstudies.tv/

“Every night I save you.”

Clearly I’ve set my listener expectations in terms of my Season 6 feelings. So to keep myself honest, it seems I have decided to frontload those discussions of Depression: The Series with avowed superfans of said season. Following on the heels of last week’s talk with Season 6 expert Elizabeth Rambo, this week I’m joined by possibly the most passionate Sixer I’ve ever met, former Hollywood script doctor and Buffy scholar Faith Currant. After I get over the shock of her methods for introducing new fans to the world of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Faith and I go on to discuss Jungian psychology, the Buddhist idea of the bardo state, the disambiguation of “Normal Again,” and why, despite my troubled history with this era of the Slayer saga, “After Life” has always been and will always be one of my favorite episodes in the Whedonverse. (Hint: I like Spike. Surprise!)

Next: PhD student, author, and Mr. Pointy Award-winner Stephanie Graves returns to discuss episodes 605, “Life Serial,” and 606, “All the Way.”

THE CROSSOVER

Angel 305, “Fredless.” This episode ends with Buffy going to meet Angel. “Fredless” opens with Angel coming back from that meeting. At this point in production, direct crossovers, with actors appearing on both shows is forbidden by the competing networks.

THE BREAKDOWN

Run Time: 01:38:45

00:00:55 - Intro / Guest

00:10:42 - Main Topic

01:36:44 - Outro / Next

THE LINKS

Faith’s website

THE MUSIC

“Conversations (feat. Wesley Mead)” by Azura (2017)

“Hell” by Squirrel Nut Zippers, Hot (1996)

THE SCHOLARS

Whedon Studies Association is a non-profit academic organization devoted to the study of the works of Joss Whedon and his associates. They put out Slayage: The Journal of Whedon Studies, and Watcher Junior​: The Undergraduate Journal of Whedon Studies, both blind peer-reviewed twice-yearly online publications. They also host the biennial Slayage Conference on the Whedonverses, which brings all these incredible scholars together to present papers, discuss ways of incorporating Whedon Studies in education, and basically just geek out together. 

http://www.whedonstudies.tv/

“Is this hell?”

We begin our 22 Stages of Season 6 Grief with the two-part season premiere “Bargaining.” Professor, author, and undeniable Season 6 expert Elizabeth Rambo makes her triumphant return to the Conversations graveyard to help us all get through these difficult times. We talk about the new Giles-less title credits, the amazing performance (again!) of Sarah Michelle Gellar, the clear difference in broadcast standards and practices between the WB and UPN, and how 9/11 may have played a role in the response some fans have had to this season.

Also, I wave the flag and light the fireworks to officially declare this and everything going forward Spike’s Time(™) at last!

Next: first time guest Faith Currant joins me to discuss episodes 603, “After Life” and 604, “Flooded.”

THE BREAKDOWN

Run Time: 01:21:15

00:00:55 - Intro / Guest

00:05:30 - Main Topic

01:18:10 - Outro / Next

THE LIBRARY

Television Finales: From Howdy Doody to Girls, edited by Douglas L. Howard and David Bianculli

Buffy Goes Dark: Essays on the Final Two Seasons of Buffy the Vampire Slayer on Television, edited by Lynne Y. Edwards, Elizabeth Rambo, and James B. South

THE MUSIC

“Conversations (feat. Wesley Mead)” by Azura (2017)

“Work Song” by Hozier, Hozier (2014)

THE SCHOLARS

Whedon Studies Association is a non-profit academic organization devoted to the study of the works of Joss Whedon and his associates. They put out Slayage: The Journal of Whedon Studies, and Watcher Junior​: The Undergraduate Journal of Whedon Studies, both blind peer-reviewed twice-yearly online publications. They also host the biennial Slayage Conference on the Whedonverses, which brings all these incredible scholars together to present papers, discuss ways of incorporating Whedon Studies in education, and basically just geek out together. 

http://www.whedonstudies.tv/

“But...you’re just a girl.”

“That’s what I keep saying.”

We’ve come at last to the end. Well, *AN* end. We’ve reached what could have (and maybe should have?) been the end of all things Buffy the Vampire Slayer with the Season 5 finale “The Gift.” Michael Holland returns, with a shiny new job title, to help me wish a fond farewell to the WB era as our beloved hero takes the plunge (literally) into a darker, more confusing adulthood. We talk about a lot of things, as you might expect, including Giles’ angry push back, Xander’s big ball, Spike’s sobs, and Olaf’s totally unnecessary retcon into godhood. And in the end I try, with mixed success, to broach the potentially uncomfortable topic of Buffy’s final heroic act vs. her growing deathwish. [CW: suicide]

Next: back at last after literally ages, professor and author Elizabeth Rambo joins me to kick off the cheeriest season in the entire run of Buffy the Vampire Slayer. We’ll be discussing 601, “Bargaining (Part 1)” and 602, “Bargaining (Part 2).”

THE BREAKDOWN

Run Time: 01:21:57

00:00:55 - Intro / Guest

00:04:48 - Main Topic

01:17:55 - Outro / Next

THE LIBRARY

Library Closed For Filing - Please Come Back Tomorrow

THE MUSIC

“Conversations (feat. Wesley Mead)” by Azura (2017)

“Free Fallin’” by Tom Petty, Full Moon Fever (1989)

THE SCHOLARS

Whedon Studies Association is a non-profit academic organization devoted to the study of the works of Joss Whedon and his associates. They put out Slayage: The Journal of Whedon Studies, and Watcher Junior​: The Undergraduate Journal of Whedon Studies, both blind peer-reviewed twice-yearly online publications. They also host the biennial Slayage Conference on the Whedonverses, which brings all these incredible scholars together to present papers, discuss ways of incorporating Whedon Studies in education, and basically just geek out together. 

http://www.whedonstudies.tv/

“Do we suspect that there may be some kind of connection between Ben and Glory?”

Great question, Giles. First time guest Margaret Ann Robbins joins me to answer that and other ponderables. For example, in “Spiral,” is Buffy the Vampire Slayer really just a retelling of Milton’s Paradise Lost? Are the ren faire reject Knights of Byzantium a tonal bridge too far? If killing humans is a no-no, but killing Knights of Byzantium goes unmentioned from now to the end of time, does that kind of answer my previous question? And in “The Weight of the World,” why is it okay for Glory to whine, “Get out, get out, get out!” without catching grief from the fans? Does the Gollum / Sméagol scene between Glory and Ben work? And what if the Key were a velvet Elvis painting?

Next: we’re in the endgame now. Buffy’s world comes tumbling down, literally, in the Season 5 finale. Join me and returning guest Michael Holland as we discuss episode 522, “The Gift.”

THE BREAKDOWN

Run Time: 01:28:13

00:00:55 - Intro / Guest

00:04:47 - Main Topic

01:24:47 - Outro / Next

THE LIBRARY

Bite Me!: The Chosen Edition The Unofficial Guide to Buffy The Vampire Slayer (Seven Seasons One Book), by Nikki Stafford

THE MUSIC

“Conversations (feat. Wesley Mead)” by Azura (2017)

“Knight Rider Main Theme” by Stu Phillips, Knight Rider (Original TV Soundtrack) (2005)

THE SCHOLARS

Whedon Studies Association is a non-profit academic organization devoted to the study of the works of Joss Whedon and his associates. They put out Slayage: The Journal of Whedon Studies, and Watcher Junior​: The Undergraduate Journal of Whedon Studies, both blind peer-reviewed twice-yearly online publications. They also host the biennial Slayage Conference on the Whedonverses, which brings all these incredible scholars together to present papers, discuss ways of incorporating Whedon Studies in education, and basically just geek out together. 

http://www.whedonstudies.tv/