Counsel to Counsel - Career Advice for Lawyers

In this episode of Counsel to Counsel, Steve speaks with legal tech executive and former practicing attorney Ben Chiriboga, founding team member of Nexl, a legal CRM platform built specifically for law firms. Ben shares how Nexl is transforming how lawyers manage client relationships and streamline business development—and offers a candid look at his own journey from litigator to legal tech entrepreneur.

💡 In This Episode:

• What is a CRM, and why do lawyers need one?
• How Nexl helps lawyers stay on top of relationship-building without relying on manual data entry
• Nexl's legal-specific features: passive data collection, client intelligence, and built-in project management
• Why many lawyers resist using CRMs—and how Nexl addresses those objections
• Ben's personal transition from litigation to legal tech leadership

In this episode, Steve speaks with the administrative team at the NALP Foundation, a nonprofit research organization focused on the advancement of the legal profession. They explore recent data on associate hiring, attrition, and retention—highlighting what lawyers can learn from these trends to shape more satisfying careers.

💡 Topics Covered:

• Why lawyers are leaving law firms—and why some are choosing to stay

• The top factors driving associate retention (hint: it's not just about money)

• What the research says about generational differences and shifting career expectations

• How to use data to be more intentional about your career development

• Advice for lawyers feeling disengaged or considering alternative paths

🎧 Whether you're early in your legal career or at a crossroads, this episode offers practical insights for anyone looking to navigate a more fulfilling professional path.

In this episode, I take another break from interviewing guests to share some quick thoughts on how to use job boards effectively in your job search. While I spend a lot of time encouraging clients to make networking the central focus of their career exploration, job postings still have value—if used strategically. I share practical tips on how to leverage listings for market research, generate new ideas, and customize your applications to stand out.

In this episode, Steve Seckler speaks with Jonathan White, a Boston-based trusts and estates attorney and a self-described AI enthusiast. Jonathan shares practical insights into how he is using artificial intelligence tools to streamline his law practice and enhance client service. He also reflects on his career transitions—from litigation to insurance defense, to real estate, and finally to trusts and estates—and how his current involvement with Atticus is helping him and other lawyers build more fulfilling and profitable practices.

🎧 Topics Covered:

• Jonathan's career path: from civil litigation to trusts and estates
• What inspired him to embrace AI in his legal practice
• Practical applications of AI
• Best practices and cautions for using AI in a legal setting (10-80-10 rule, client disclosure)
• His involvement with Atticus and his path to becoming a coach

🛠️ AI Tips for Lawyers:

• Start with one or two tools and go deep
• Disclose AI usage in your client engagement agreements
• Verify all AI output—use human judgment to review
• Use AI as a support, not a replacement

In this episode, I'm taking a break from interviewing guests to share some exciting news—my new book, Think Like a Lawyer, Act Like an Entrepreneur, is being published by the American Bar Association in late March!

If you've ever struggled with marketing yourself or felt uncomfortable with business development, this book is for you. As lawyers, we're trained to be analytical and risk-averse—great for legal work, but not always helpful when it comes to growing a practice. In the book, I share practical strategies to help you shift your mindset, build relationships, and integrate marketing into your professional life in a way that feels natural.

Tune in to hear about my own journey with business development, why I wrote this book, and how it can help you market yourself without feeling like a salesperson.

To order, click here.

In this episode, business coach Dominic Grew returns to discuss how solo and small firm lawyers can strategically grow their practices without overextending themselves. Dominic shares practical insights on leveraging time, outsourcing non-billable tasks, and using fractional resources before committing to full-time hires.

Key Topics:

• When to consider hiring support staff or associates
• The benefits of fractional hires and outsourcing tasks like bookkeeping and IT
• Avoiding common mistakes when expanding a law practice
• How to balance delegation while maintaining quality
• Real-world scenarios: Hiring a first employee, sharing an associate, and weighing contract help vs. joining a larger firm

Why You Should Listen: If you've ever wondered how to scale your law firm while maintaining efficiency and profitability, this episode provides actionable strategies to help you make informed decisions about growth.

Additional Resources:

• Episode 110: Getting to No – Turning Leads into Business with Dominic Grew

In this episode, host Stephen Seckler welcomes back Gary Johnson, president of J2 Marketing Consultants, for a dynamic session of role-playing client intakes. They explore how lawyers can turn initial business conversations into productive relationships. Gary, an expert in coaching attorneys on growing their practices, shares practical techniques for understanding client needs, building trust, and addressing objections.

Role-play scenarios include consultations with a restaurant owner expanding his business, a divorcing client navigating complex emotions and custody issues, and parents of a special needs child seeking estate planning advice. Each scenario highlights the importance of active listening, empathy, and providing tailored solutions. Gary also emphasizes the long-term value of relationship-building in legal marketing. This episode is packed with actionable insights for lawyers aiming to enhance their client interactions and business development strategies.

Additional Resources

Episode 74-Turning Business Conversations into Business-with Gary Johnson

Episode 144-Turning Business Contacts into Business: Lessons From the 2024 Election

Episode 110-Dominic Grew on "Getting to No"-Turning Leads into Business and Other Ways to Succeed in Private Practice

In this episode, host Stephen Seckler sits down with Carrie Flynn, a fractional CMO and growth marketing consultant, to explore the evolving landscape of marketing for lawyers and law firms. Carrie brings over eight years of experience helping professional service businesses scale their revenue and impact through tailored digital and traditional marketing strategies. Together, they unpack the essential elements of building a robust marketing plan that balances relationship-building with digital tools.

Key Topics Discussed:

• Marketing Fundamentals for Law Firms: How to identify your ideal client and develop targeted messaging to stand out in a competitive market.
• The Power of Diversification: Combining referral marketing with digital strategies like email marketing, social media, and SEO to drive consistent lead generation.
• Data-Driven Strategies: Leveraging past performance to inform future marketing decisions and optimize results.
• AI in Legal Marketing: The opportunities and ethical considerations when incorporating AI into your marketing efforts.
• Actionable Steps: Tips for creating a focused 90-day marketing plan and evaluating its impact.

Carrie also shares her journey from public school teacher to marketing consultant and offers insights into how law firms can establish effective marketing practices that drive growth without sacrificing work/life balance.

In this episode of Counsel to Counsel, host Stephen Seckler is joined by Susanne Aronowitz, a senior consultant with Beard Strategies and a Professional Certified Coach, to discuss career transitions and job satisfaction for lawyers. Susanne shares her journey from employment attorney to career coach, offering insights drawn from her 25 years of experience. Together, they explore how lawyers can address career dissatisfaction, identify whether issues are fixable within their current role, and recognize when it's time to move on. Susanne also provides actionable advice on navigating involuntary job loss, reframing layoffs as opportunities for growth, and leveraging networking for successful transitions.

The conversation covers strategies for improving job satisfaction, such as proposing changes to employers, adjusting responsibilities, and exploring complementary practice areas. Susanne highlights the importance of self-care and managing negative self-talk during career transitions, as well as practical steps for processing emotions and maintaining professionalism in the face of job loss. Packed with valuable tips and inspiring success stories, this episode offers a roadmap for lawyers seeking fulfillment and balance in their careers. Don't miss Susanne's expert guidance on turning challenges into opportunities! For more information, visit Susanne's website or contact her directly.

Additional Resources

• Strategies for Prioritizing Well-Being in Attorney Job Searches and Career Development
• Episode 142-Winning in Your Own Court with Dena Lefkowitz
• Episode 135-Tackling Mental Health Issues in the Law with Amy Levine and LCL

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In this episode of the Counsel to Counsel podcast, host Stephen Seckler engages with Nancy Capistran, founder of Capistran Leadership and a Vistage chair, to delve into the transformative impact of peer advisory groups and executive coaching. Nancy, an internationally certified executive coach and crisis advisor, is renowned for her commitment to Expanding Human Excellence®. She is also the author of the best-selling book Open Your Eyes and LEAD: Hardship and Wisdom Shape the Best Leaders in Life, which offers insights into overcoming challenges to achieve exceptional results.

In this conversation, Nancy shares how group coaching fosters leadership growth through collaborative learning, diverse perspectives, and collective problem-solving. She also distinguishes between group and one-on-one coaching, emphasizing how each format can transform leaders both personally and professionally. Whether you're a legal professional or a business executive, this episode provides practical insights into leadership development and maximizing your potential.

Additional Resources

• Episode 130-Emotional Intelligence and EQ i-2.0 With Susan Schwartz
• Episode 129-Law Firm Leadership with Kristi Royse
• Ted Lasso (?TV+) and Lessons in Leadership and Performance
• 15 Tips for Leadership Success