Counsel to Counsel - Career Advice for Lawyers

We talk a lot on this program about finding ways to build a more satisfying legal career. While many attorneys are drawn to the profession because they care about justice, they like the idea of becoming a trusted advisor, or they just enjoy the intellectual rigor of being an attorney, status and money are important too.

But if you are like me, one of the reasons you chose law school rather than business school is because math is not your jam.

If you are a lawyer who has been practicing for a few years and thinking about your financial health and your financial future, you may have questions about paying off your student loans or figuring out how much to start saving for retirement.

Maybe you aren't sure how to organize your finances now that you are planning for life's big events like buying a house or starting a family.

Maybe you are thinking about eventually starting your own law practice and you aren't sure how to get your financial house in order.

James Grace has joined me for a very practical conversation about managing your finances as you get past the early stages of your legal career.

Jim is the Director of Wealth Management for Silver Pine Capital. Jim worked at regional wealth management agencies and banks before joining Silver Pine. Jim describes himself as an educator, coach, motivator, confident, coach. He is also the host of the Modern Financial Wellness podcast. He is also someone I've gotten to know, like, and trust through my ProVisors business network.

Additional Resources

• Episode 62- Financial & Career Planning for Senior Attorneys
• Episode 93-Planning for Retirement with Julie Jason, The Discerning Investment Advisor

In this episode, I speak with my first "threepeat" guest, Lauren Rikleen. This is Lauren's third appearance on Counsel to Counsel. She was actually one of my first guests when I launched the show in 2018. In that episode, we spoke about success strategies for women and the work she has done on that issue.

In the Spring of 2022,I invited Lauren back to talk more about her legal career including working in the field of environmental law as it was just taking off. We also spoke about what inspired her to make a career shift away from the practice of law. If you haven't already listened to it, I invite you to go back to episode 81.

I met Lauren in the early 1990s when I was at Massachusetts Continuing Legal Education and later had the privilege of sitting on her Standing Committee on Work/Life Balance when she was President of the Boston Bar Association. I knew soon after I met her that Lauren is someone who is not afraid to speak up when she sees injustice.

She is also a person with a big heart who cares not only about making an impact but also about investing in the success of professionals who come from disadvantaged groups.

Most importantly, she laughs at most of my jokes and keeps me laughing as well.

I invited Lauren back because she is the editor of a new book entitled Her Honor. Her Honor is an inspiring compendium of the lives of 25 female judges including many judges of color. Most of these judges were women who overcame significant gender and racial discrimination to get to the bench and all of them are judges who felt a great sense of responsibility to continue the fight for racial and gender equity.

I also invited her back to talk about the important work that she is doing through Lawyers Defending American Democracy.

Lauren Rikleen is President of the Rikleen Institute for Strategic Leadership. She is also the Executive Director of Lawyers Defending American Democracy.

Additional Episodes

• Episode 87-The Advancement of Women in Law with Elise Holtzman
• Episode 81-Lauren Rikleen-Rebel with Many Causes

December is a great time to take stock, hit the reset button, and do some planning. With 2024 around the corner, I've been speaking with my clients about setting goals for the new year.

I'm not talking about making New Year's resolutions. It's important to understand that resolutions and goals are not the same. Resolutions often lack specificity and a plan of action, making them easy to abandon. On the other hand, setting clear, well-defined goals lays a foundation for measurable progress and sustained success.

In this episode, I'm pleased to welcome Wendy Merrill and Jennifer Forester, two great coaches who also work with the legal community. Jen and Wendy are also talking right now to their clients about goal setting and they have some great tips to share.

In our conversation, we speak about setting marketing and business development goals for your law practice. But Wendy and Jen also have some thoughts about other areas in your professional and personal life where setting goals can help ensure that you are moving forward in all aspects of your life. They also discuss creating a "To Don't" list.

Jennifer Forester helps lawyers avoid random acts of marketing. She's a business development coach for corporate and consumer attorneys, drawing on 20 years of experience in sales, marketing, and client service roles with big law and boutiques. Jen lives in northern California with her two Boxer dogs and her husband, who is a family law attorney.

Wendy Merrill is a growth strategist, thought leader, and founder of StrategyHorse. StrategyHorse is a consulting firm dedicated to improving law firm profitability through alignment and engagement strategies. For over a decade, Wendy has been working with lawyers and firms to revolutionize the practice of law. Wendy lives in the DC area.

Additional Resources

• Episode 109-Sarah Tetlow on Delegating and Dealing with Distraction
• Episode 57- Billable Work v. Investment Hours (Dr. Sarah Reiff-Hekking on Time Management)

As attorneys, we share many qualities that make us effective in representing our clients. Our skepticism, aversion to risk, sense of urgency, competitiveness, and pessimism, can all be good for out clients.

But when it comes to building a practice, advancing our careers, or taking on leadership roles, we are more effective when we remove our lawyering hats.

As it turns out, these qualities can also have a pernicious effect on our mental health.

In this episode of Counsel to Counsel, I share my thoughts on why it is important to stop thinking and acting like a lawyer in social situations.

Additional Resources

• Stop Thinking (and Acting) Like a Lawyer–unless you are giving legal advice!
• Lawyers Concerned for Lawyers of Massachusetts- free and confidential mental health and substance abuse services for attorneys (check your state bar for similar resources in other states)
• Episode 70-Shailini George on Doing Well and Being Well in the Law

It is axiomatic that if you want to have a successful legal career, you need to learn your craft. Most areas of legal practice require highly refined analytical abilities coupled with good judgment. For the most part, the first developmental task of any new lawyer is to learn how to practice law.

But if you want to advance in your career, you need to be more than a good technician. Demonstrating executive presence is also key.

In this episode, I am pleased to introduce John Buckley, Board Secretary and General Counsel for the North Carolina operations of a multinational mobility infrastructure company. John talks about how building your executive presence is critical to advancing your career, especially if you want to want to take on leadership responsibilities.

In a great conversation, John discusses what executive presence is, who needs it, and what it looks like. He offers his practical tips on how increase your own executive presence.

Over the summer, I heard John give a great presentation on this topic for the American Bar Association and I decided I had to have him on the show. Lucky for me, he accepted my invitation right away.

John Buckley has served 3 times as the first in-house counsel for start-ups. He has 15 years of solo/small law department General Counsel experience. He began his professional life as an engineer for Duke Power.

Additional Resources

• Ted Lasso (🍎TV+) and Lessons in Leadership and Performance
• 15 Tips for Leadership Success
• Episode 118-Paths to Partnership in 2023 and Beyond-With Laura Terrell
• Episode 103-Ben Sachs on Building High-Performance Legal Teams
• Episode 87-The Advancement of Women in Law with Elise Holtzman
• Episode 80-Leadership for Lawyers-Moving Up in Your Law Firm or Corporate Law Department

Artificial Intelligence continues to be a big unknown in the legal space. It holds tremendous promise for streamlining the delivery of legal services and is already being deployed to expedite discovery, to help draft contracts, to assist with client intake, and to streamline many other functions that once required a lot more human labor.

AI is now being used by some lawyers to help assess the strength of their cases, to expedite legal research, and to draft pleadings.

I know that I myself am using ChatGPT to help me prepare for presentations, craft social media posts, and to get quickly up to speed on an array of subjects that are of interest to my clients.

At the same time, the use of AI raises legitimate ethical concerns. It also raises concerns about the need for so many lawyers.

But according to my guest, Hamid Kohan, AI won't replace lawyers. It will replace lawyers and other professionals who don't use AI.

Hamid Kohan is a serial entrepreneur, public speaker, and author of the book How to Scale Your Stupid AI Law Firm.

Hamid started his career in silicon valley where he served as Director of Business Development of Sun Microsystems, working alongside Eric Schmidt who is today the CEO of Google and Carol Bartz the CEO of Yahoo.

More recently, Hamid saw an opportunity to bring his expertise in technology and business development to the legal world, and he founded Legal Soft Inc. in 2016.

In this episode, Hamid will answer some questions about where we are in 2023 with the use of AI in the practice of law.

Other Resources

Episode 107-ChatGPT and Trends in Legal Marketing Technology-with Jared Correia

In the past year, I've done a number of interviews with lawyers who have transitioned from the traditional practice of law into other corporate or consulting roles. In this episode, I speak with Shawn Hoyt about how to transition into an operations role in a corporate environment.

Shawn is someone who has thought a lot about managing his own career and he has a unique perspective on career advancement.

Shawn Hoyt is a Vice President at OutSystems. He began his legal career as a corporate associate at a large law firm. In 1999, I actually recruited him to his first in-house legal job. Over time, his responsibilities expanded way beyond legal.

Shawn brings an unusual perspective on how to get more from your legal career and how to transition into much broader roles.

Shawn is a senior legal and operational executive who has led a broad range of teams through periods of both rapid growth and transition. He has deep functional experience running commercial, Deal Desk, pricing, proposal/RFP, contracting, deal operations, vendor management, and legal teams.

But he has also managed People, Talent Acquisition, Office Operations, IT, Security, Finance, and Leadership operations through periods of transition.

Related Episodes

· Episode 114-From Biglaw to In-house to Business Role and Back Again with Carl Berglind

· Episode 113-From Litigation to Trial Consulting with Marc Diller

Episode 112-From Corporate Counsel to Management Consultant-Leveraging Your Legal Career with David Lesser

Achieving partnership was once the goal of most law firm associates. The rules were relatively simple. Work hard, do a good job, and after several years, get rewarded by being elevated.

Today the law firms are more complex. Many associates entering the practice of law do not aspire to become partners, at least not at the first firm they join.

And at many firms, there are different paths to success which don't include equity partnership.

So, how should a young associate navigate these new realities?

What is the path to partnership in the 2020s and what are other ways to define success in private practice. How do you get there? What is the impact of hybrid work arrangements on career advancement and professional development?

My guest Laura Terrell has some answers.

Laura Terrell is an executive coach with over 25 years of professional experience as a legal and business leader. Prior to launching her coaching practice, Laura was a Special Assistant to the President at the White House, a senior level appointee at the US Department of Justice, an equity partner in two large global law firms, and in-house counsel at a major global consulting and business advisory firm.

Laura has led and managed teams of hundreds of people across multiple countries and has been a top advisor for many Fortune 500 and FTSE 100 companies. Her clients come from a wide variety of industries, including law, education, financial services, pharmaceutical, oil & gas, non-profit, health care, and technology.

Some of them are senior corporate executives like CEOs and general counsels; others are lawyers and consultants, entrepreneurs, and small business owners, as well as professionals who may be returning to the workforce, making a pivot to a new career, or switching roles mid-career.

Laura is my favorite kind of guest because she has such a broad perspective on the legal industry and has experienced legal careers from all sides.

Additional Resources

• Episode 80-Leadership for Lawyers-Moving Up in Your Law Firm or Corporate Law Department
• Episode 73-Managing and Advancing Your Law Firm Career

Job interviews can cause a lot of stress. Over the years, I've come to appreciate that this is true whether you are the candidate or the interviewer.

The stakes can feel high. Both sides are trying to assess whether they are right for each other. The candidate may be imagining that they are interviewing for their dream job. They may be worried about the competition.

The interviewer may have a desperate need to fill a role and there are few candidates with the right mix of skills and personality. Or worse, they made a bad hire and they are now trying to fix the problem.

But just like dating, neither side will really know what it is like to be married until they are actually living together.

So what are some ways that candidates and employers can prepare for a good interview? What can candidates and interviewers do to make themselves more attractive to each other? How can candidates and employers get the information they need to make an informed decision about whether to extend an offer or accept an offer?

In this episode, I have invited two seasoned recruiters who share their collective wisdom.

Both are members of the in-house legal recruiting team at the search firm Major Lindsey and Africa.

Amy Katz is a returning guest on Counsel to Counsel. Amy recently rejoined the team at Major Lindsey after spending a year recruiting in-house for her old employer Outside GC. I last spoke to Amy about her journey from big law to in-house to OutsideGC, and finally into recruiting.

Amy's career experience includes over 25 years as a practicing employment attorney. Prior to joining MLA the first time, Amy was a Member at Outside GC, advising employers on a wide range of employment law matters, conducting workplace and academic investigations, and designing and delivering compliance training. Before that, she served as senior employment counsel for Genzyme Corporation.

Today, she focuses on recruiting general counsel and other in-house attorneys in a wide range of industries, most notably life sciences and technology.

My second guest is Amy's colleague, Nancy Reiner who spent over 20 years in private practice including stints at two major firms. She last served as a partner at Brown Rudnick where she worked on business, environmental and public interest litigation.

Nancy has been in the legal search business since 2008.

Today she is the leader of the Boston In-House Counsel Recruiting team for MLA where she focuses on placement of general counsel and other in-house counsel for public companies and private businesses, major global corporations and disruptive start-ups, hospital and other healthcare systems, and colleges and universities.

Nancy has placed close to 100 senior-level leaders in corporate legal departments throughout New England and across the country.

Additional Resources

• Tips for a Successful Job Interview-Live and Virtual
• Episode 5-Nailing the Job Interview
• Episode 91-Transitioning Your Legal Career to In-house and Beyond With Amy Katz

The Massachusetts Lawyers Weekly Reader Rankings Awards are out, and I'm pleased to report that once again, I did very well.

This year I came in first for Lawyer Outplacement and for Business Development Coach. I also came in second for Executive Coaching. So the subject of awards is top of mind for me this week.

I'm happy to be in the winner's circle and very thankful for the great clients and colleagues who took the time to support me.

But do awards really matter? Listen in to this episode of Counsel to Counsel for my analysis.