Get to know Sam:

Profile https://www.linkedin.com/in/sam-goodman-03a95391/

Website: https://www.thehopnerd.com/meetsam or https://www.thehopnerd.com/podcasthttps://www.thehopnerd.com/podcast

Please check out the amazing people doing amazing things on these podcasts we listen to and love:

• Leading Safely Podcast with Georgina Poole (yup, the same one as above)
• Punk Rock Safety with Ben Goodheart, Dave Provan, and Ron Gantt
• Counter-Errorism in Diving: Applying Human Factors to Diving with Gareth Lock
• How Did It Make Sense? with Gareth Lock
• The HOP Nerd with Sam Goodman
• A HOP Podcast (With No Name) with Andrea Baker and Matt Florio
• Health & Safety Conversations with Tom Bourne
• Pre-Accident Investigations with Todd Conklin
• Safety on Tap with Andrew Barrett
• (Not HOP-related, but an AMAZING untold history podcast) The Missing Chapter Podcast with Philip Horrender and Phil Schoff

Get to know Bill:

Profile linkedin.com/in/william-scarberry-160a2256

Website: https://www.gevernova.com/ or nuclear.gepower.com/

Please check out the amazing people doing amazing things on these podcasts we listen to and love:

• Leading Safely Podcast with Georgina Poole (yup, the same one as above)
• Punk Rock Safety with Ben Goodheart, Dave Provan, and Ron Gantt
• Counter-Errorism in Diving: Applying Human Factors to Diving with Gareth Lock
• How Did It Make Sense? with Gareth Lock
• The HOP Nerd with Sam Goodman
• A HOP Podcast (With No Name) with Andrea Baker and Matt Florio
• Health & Safety Conversations with Tom Bourne
• Pre-Accident Investigations with Todd Conklin
• Safety on Tap with Andrew Barrett
• (Not HOP-related, but an AMAZING untold history podcast) The Missing Chapter Podcast with Philip Horrender and Phil Schoff

Are you interested in some ideas on getting workers comfortable enough to share their experiences without fear of judgement? In this episode we chat about easing people into Psychological Safety and the importance of FOOD in these situations. You have to create the time for curiosity.

Georgina's cool stuff:

Profile linkedin.com/in/georginapoole

Website georginapoole.com.au (Personal)

Email [email protected]

Podcast LEADING SAFELY with Georgina Poole

Please check out the amazing people doing amazing things on these podcasts we listen to and love:

• Leading Safely Podcast with Georgina Poole (yup, the same one as above)
• Punk Rock Safety with Ben Goodheart, Dave Provan, and Ron Gantt
• Counter-Errorism in Diving: Applying Human Factors to Diving with Gareth Lock
• How Did It Make Sense? with Gareth Lock
• The HOP Nerd with Sam Goodman
• A HOP Podcast (With No Name) with Andrea Baker and Matt Florio
• Health & Safety Conversations with Tom Bourne
• Pre-Accident Investigations with Todd Conklin
• Safety on Tap with Andrew Barrett
• (Not HOP-related, but an AMAZING untold history podcast) The Missing Chapter Podcast with Philip Horrender and Phil Schoff

"So, did we fix it?" Ron, Ken, and James chat about trust and how that effects decision making. Sharp end decisions WILL be made, as leadership, do you want to be part of those decisions and if so, how much?

"Flips the script away from human frailty to human expertise"

"People are routinely overcoming challenges, difficulties, pressures, dilemmas; they're dealing with that all of the time, and they do it so well, they hide it - that's Dave Woods' Law of Fluency."

"Eventually, expertise is going to break down under certain pressures..."

"...the pressures or dilemmas are going to overwhelm that expertise, so how can we support people to leverage that expertise in a more effective way in those situations?"

So, how come you don't know Ron Gantt, yet?

Education:

Ph.D. Industrial and Systems Engineering, The Ohio State University

M.Eng Safety Engineering & Management, University of Alabama at Birmingham

contact him: [email protected]

Please check out the amazing people doing amazing things on these podcasts we listen to and love:

• Leading Safely Podcast with Georgina Poole
• Punk Rock Safety with Ben Goodheart, Dave Provan, and Ron Gantt
• Counter-Errorism in Diving: Applying Human Factors to Diving with Gareth Lock
• How Did It Make Sense? with Gareth Lock
• The HOP Nerd with Sam Goodman
• A HOP Podcast (With No Name) with Andrea Baker and Matt Florio
• Health & Safety Conversations with Tom Bourne
• Pre-Accident Investigations with Todd Conklin
• Safety on Tap with Andrew Barrett
• (Not HOP-related, but an AMAZING untold history podcast) The Missing Chapter Podcast with Philip Horrender and Phil Schoff

Part 1: Making people feel heard makes them feel empowered. 

Charles relishes the opportunity to remind us all of the importance of helping people feel heard and seen. Meeting Charles through LinkedIn has been a wonderful experience, and thought it would be wonderful to give you an insight into one of our conversations.  Charles and I have spoken a few times and we talk about our motivation for change and we think the "Root Cause" is a Dissatisfaction Attitude.  Beauty, family, immigration,  fear, culture, humility, and what makes us curious - it will get deep. When you meet Charles, you will learn, it's okay to get personal and let go of judgment.

As a leadership tool - I want to spend a day with you and be curious - I will let go of judgment and bias and be an open book with a focus on building our relationship and I will meet you where you are (physically and emotionally). 

At the 10 minute mark, the book Charles discusses is "Random Noise" by Georgina Poole and Sidney Dekker.

Part 2: Leadership Response Matters

Power and influence are mostly controlled by the leadership team, so after an event how we move forward will greatly depend on the leadership team. There is a unique opportunity following an incident where a leader can improve the relationship and level of trust - not just for those involved, but for anyone who finds out. 

Please check out the amazing people doing amazing things on these podcasts we listen to and love:

• Leading Safely Podcast with Georgina Poole
• Punk Rock Safety with Ben Goodheart, Dave Provan, and Ron Gantt
• Counter-Errorism in Diving: Applying Human Factors to Diving with Gareth Lock
• The HOP Nerd with Sam Goodman
• A HOP Podcast (With No Name) with Andrea Baker and Matt Florio
• Health & Safety Conversations with Tom Bourne
• Pre-Accident Investigations with Todd Conklin
• Safety on Tap with Andrew Barrett
• (Not HOP-related, but an AMAZING untold history podcast) The Missing Chapter Podcast with Philip Horrender and Phil Schoff

All about Gareth Lock. PLEASE check him out on LinkedIn here

• Website (Non-diving) : Human in the System (www.humaninthesystem.co.uk)
• Website (Diving):The Human Diver (www.thehumandiver.com)
• Podcast: Counter-Errorism in Diving: Applying Human Factors to Diving
• Book:  "Under Pressure" (I have the audio version!!!)
• Documentary: "If Only..."  (free- watch this over and over)

Regarding the tool that Gareth recommends in this episode, you can get a copy of the DEBrIEF guide from: https://www.humaninthesystem.co.uk/hits-debrief-oi-2024

IMPORTANT NOTE: Gareth is certainly well established in the Diving niche, but he is ALSO opening up his content and efforts into ANY organization wanting training or other consultative services.  He's an amazing instructor and content creator, and is someone you just know is bound for even more success. 

New addition to the CE podcast: Transitions between a few places

New problem: Used a new tool for recording called "Otter" and it seriously affected the audio quality in places - We had to make 145 separate edit points to get it at the level where it is now. We hope it's difficult for listeners to tell. Lesson learned: We will NOT be using Otter in the future.

Please check out the amazing people doing amazing things on these podcasts we listen to and love:

• Leading Safely Podcast with Georgina Poole
• Punk Rock Safety with Ben Goodheart, Dave Provan, and Ron Gantt
• Counter-Errorism in Diving: Applying Human Factors to Diving with Gareth Lock
• The HOP Nerd with Sam Goodman
• A HOP Podcast (With No Name) with Andrea Baker and Matt Florio
• Health & Safety Conversations with Tom Bourne
• Pre-Accident Investigations with Todd Conklin
• Safety on Tap with Andrew Barrett
• (Not HOP-related, but an AMAZING untold history podcast) The Missing Chapter Podcast with Philip Horrender and Phil Schoff

Fun fact - you may not know  Steve recently took up boxing as a positive and fun way to exercise and every inch of him was hurting when he sat down with us to record. Steve is another CHOLearning.org buddy Ken and I met this year and didn't nearly get to spend enough time with him, and this won't be the only time we chat with him with the microphone recording. He has a wonderful sense of humor and a genuine humility when it comes to talking about how nervous he was before getting on stage (at CHOL) and adding a whole segment on HOP and why humor is important. If you're an American (like me), that loves awesome accents and dialects, you're in for a treat!

It's fun to be the "weird safety guy"!

New KPI suggestion: How many Christmas parties do you get invited to?

From Ken: Has anybody asked if the workers even know what they did was a violation? This could be a different starting point.

Recipe for an awesome chat:

1. Take one Scotsman and train him in HOP for ten years.
2. Plant him in Australia assisting High Reliability Operations.
3. Give him stand up comedy lessons.
4. Invite him for a talk about anything!

Please check out the amazing people doing amazing things on these podcasts we listen to and love:

• Leading Safely Podcast with Georgina Poole
• Punk Rock Safety with Ben Goodheart, Dave Provan, and Ron Gantt
• Counter-Errorism in Diving: Applying Human Factors to Diving with Gareth Lock
• The HOP Nerd with Sam Goodman
• A HOP Podcast (With No Name) with Andrea Baker and Matt Florio
• Health & Safety Conversations with Tom Bourne
• Pre-Accident Investigations with Todd Conklin
• Safety on Tap with Andrew Barrett
• (Not HOP-related, but an AMAZING untold history podcast) The Missing Chapter Podcast with Philip Horrender and Phil Schoff

How can we speed up causal analysis when rapid turnaround is imperative?

1. Consider your immediate access to evidence and make sure preservation of it is important to everyone involved.
2. Have cause and effect job aids (scenario recipe cards) and logic diagram templates ready for different types of (somewhat common) issues. (The story of the fault)

For example,  a model for a story of "a damage event" or "a spill occurred" or "machine outage"

Details for a starting point to understand the fault path, recovery time, expertise, validation etc.

After Brian discusses the methodology, we continue to chat about causal analysis, including a little about developing effective Corrective Actions,  the problem statement, Extent of Cause and Extent of Condition, and a cool tool called CARB (Corrective Action Review Board).

Heads up that this is our longest episode so far, but I didn't want you to miss all of the extra RCA info we chatted about in case you're in that space and were curious to hear it. 

Please check out the amazing people doing amazing things on these podcasts we listen to and love:

• Leading Safely Podcast with Georgina Poole
• Punk Rock Safety with Ben Goodheart, Dave Provan, and Ron Gantt
• Counter-Errorism in Diving: Applying Human Factors to Diving with Gareth Lock
• The HOP Nerd with Sam Goodman
• A HOP Podcast (With No Name) with Andrea Baker and Matt Florio
• Health & Safety Conversations with Tom Bourne
• Pre-Accident Investigations with Todd Conklin
• Safety on Tap with Andrew Barrett
• (Not HOP-related, but an AMAZING untold history podcast) The Missing Chapter Podcast with Philip Horrender and Phil Schoff

Please email us to set up an interview: [email protected]

We hope you like the podcast and welcome any advice you have for us as we launch this journey.

Please check out the amazing people doing amazing things on these podcasts we listen to and love:

• Leading Safely Podcast with Georgina Poole
• Punk Rock Safety with Ben Goodheart, Dave Provan, and Ron Gantt
• Counter-Errorism in Diving: Applying Human Factors to Diving with Gareth Lock
• The HOP Nerd with Sam Goodman
• A HOP Podcast (With No Name) with Andrea Baker and Matt Florio
• Health & Safety Conversations with Tom Bourne
• Pre-Accident Investigations with Todd Conklin
• Safety on Tap with Andrew Barrett
• (Not HOP-related, but an AMAZING untold history podcast) The Missing Chapter Podcast with Philip Horrender and Phil Schoff

Jon, Ken and James speak candidly about the latest wave of awesomeness to hit a lot of places for the first time: Learning Teams

Using respectful inquiry by examining normal work. They can be used to improve anything: Jon uses an example of "pulling overhang".

Post incident review of normal work being done. Investigate differently. Not easy to do this, because of the culturally steeped traditional ways of performing incidents reviews. Learning Teams are the best way to learn from each other with people who share the same goal.

Great learning team starters:

• "Where do you feel the next accident will happen and where will it be?"
• "What went right"
• "How did we recover..."
• "How do the procedures and policies support our workers?"
• "Where have we normalized risk?"

Hidden engagement benefit: People generally like to be asked questions about the things that they do, especially when you ask "How are you successful?"

Some other places use a "Pre-event" Learning Team style. You can get a better product or efficiency of a process. Constant learning at the right levels.

More HOP podcasts for you to check out - thanks to Mike Petrowski for the list and thanks to all of our friends in this place cranking out new content all the time:

1. Pre-accident Investigation Podcast w Todd Conklin
2. The Safety of Work w David Provan
3. A HOP Podcast with No Name w Adrea Baker and Matt Florio
4. Health and Safety Conversations w Tim Bourne
5. Safety on Tap w Adrew Barrett
6. The HOP Nerd w Sam Goodman
7. Safety Labs w SLICE
8. Leading Safely Podcast w Georgina Poole
9. Rebranding Safety w James MacPherson
10. Psych Health and Safety w Peter Kelly
11. Amy Edmondson: How To Fail Well

BONUS: Don't forget to check out "Punk Rock Safety" as well (adult ears only) with Ben, Dave and Ron