What would make someone leave a thirty–year career on Wall Street to help heal America’s divides? In this episode of Courageous Conversations About Our Schools, host Ken Futernick talks with Adam Mizel, former investment banker turned bridge-builder, who co-founded US United to strengthen communities and classrooms through empathy, respect, and dialogue.

When George Floyd was killed, Adam found himself shouting at the television—until his wife asked the question that changed everything: “What are you going to do about it?” That moment led him to Sheriff Chris Swanson in Flint, Michigan, and to a new mission—bringing Americans together through programs that promote listening over labeling. One of those, “30 for Us,” invites small groups of strangers—students, neighbors, or even rivals—to discuss tough topics and discover common ground.

Ken and Adam explore how these conversations are transforming schools and how young people, in particular, are leading the way toward a more unified future. It’s a conversation about the power of listening, the importance of respect, and the possibilities for civic renewal through empathy and dialogue. 

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In a live, online discussion we co-hosted with Braver Angels on September 4th, 2025, eight panelists discussed whether Ethnic Studies should be required for high school graduation, whether such a course should even be offered at all, or whether the content is likely to do more harm than good. 

Nearly 200 audience members from across the country listened in and posed questions as panelists shared their views and personal experiences, listened, and responded respectfully to audience questions. The conversation was lively, illuminating, and, at times, challenging, but it exemplified the value of civil dialogue when addressing controversial topics like this one.

A video recording of the initial event with 8 panelists is available on our YouTube channel. An audio podcast episode is also available here on our website and on your favorite podcasting platforms. Additional details, including brief panelist bios, questions and comments from the audience, and updates on the California law that would have made Ethnic Studies a high school graduation requirement, are available here. 

A particularly noteworthy moment occurred near the end when Niclole Bernstein, a panelist opposed to Ethnic Studies, expressed a desire to continue the conversation with Albert Camarillo, one of four panelists in support of the course. This episode captures the fascinating conversation that took place between these two panelists just two weeks later. 

A video of this conversation between Bernstein and Camarillio can also be viewed on our YouTube channel. 

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Should high school students be required to take an Ethnic Studies course? Should such a course even be offered at all, or is the content likely to do more harm than good? These were the questions that a diverse group of panelists discussed in a live, online “fishbowl” discussion we co-hosted with Braver Angels on September 4th, 2025.

Nearly 200 audience members from across the country listened in and posed questions as panelists shared their views and personal experiences, listened respectfully, and responded to the audience's questions. The conversation was lively, illuminating, and challenging at times, but it exemplified the value of civil dialogue when addressing controversial topics like this one.

A particularly noteworthy moment occurred near the end when Niclole Bernstein, a panelist opposed to Ethnic Studies, expressed a desire to continue the conversation with Albert Camarillo, one of four panelists in support of the course. They agreed to let us record that conversation, which you can listen to here. You can also view it here on our YouTube channel.

In a post-event survey, 88% of the audience respondents said they would recommend this event to others. Over 300 people have since viewed the video recording on our YouTube channel or the one managed by Braver Angels.   

Additional details, including short panelist bios, questions and comments from the audience, and updates on the California law that would have made Ethnic Studies a high school graduation requirement, are available here. 

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In this timely conversation, attorney Leo Tucker shares his expertise on preparing schools and communities for immigration enforcement actions that could separate children from their families. As executive director of Aid (Aiding Survivors of Trafficking and Child Abuse), Tucker has developed a comprehensive, free guide called "Preparing for ICE Raids" that helps schools create rapid response plans to protect vulnerable students.

Key highlights:

• Legal distinctions between "undocumented" vs. "illegal" immigrants and why terminology matters
• Real-world examples of Fourth Amendment violations during enforcement actions
• Practical strategies for schools to respond when students' parents are detained
• Constitutional protections and the landmark Plyler v. Doe Supreme Court case ensuring education access regardless of immigration status

Tucker emphasizes this isn't about politics—it's about protecting children from trauma and ensuring they have support systems when a crisis strikes. Whether from immigration enforcement, accidents, or other family emergencies, communities benefit from having response plans in place.

This conversation provides hope and practical solutions for educators and community leaders navigating these challenging times. Developing emergency response plans for youth, even in communities where the risk of trauma appears low, has the additional benefit of enabling educators, parents, and community members to collaborate on a matter of mutual concern.  

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In this episode, host Ken Futernick speaks with James Coan, founder of More Like US, along with high school students Landon and Deegan, about perception gaps in American society.

James explains how perception gaps are the exaggerated negative views we hold about people with different political beliefs. Research shows Americans across the political spectrum are actually more similar than they realize, but media, social platforms, and political systems often incentivize division.

For Landon and Deegan, learning about perception gaps has changed their approach to conversations, making them more willing to listen to different perspectives and question information they find on social media. The episode explores how schools can use a lesson plan from More Like US to help students recognize these gaps and improve civil discourse. "I think the perception gap lesson really taught me that I need to take what other people say more seriously. I can't just go into something thinking that I'm always going to be right. I need to listen to what other people think," Landon said.

This semester, More Like US is working with Georgetown University's Civic Education Research Lab to test the effectiveness of the lesson plan. The lesson plan (linked below) includes both a pre-survey and a post-survey that More Like US encourages teachers to give to their students. 

Guests also discuss recommendations made by Daryl Davis, a Black musician and previous guest on this show, who had the courage to interact with members of the Ku Klux Klan, some of whom had never spoken to a Black person. Davis believes the best way to reduce dangerous misperceptions about others, the kind that can lead to hate, is for schools to enable students to interact with people outside of their affinity groups. Landon and Deegan were enthusiastic about programs like Mismatch, developed by the organization All Sides, which enables students across the country to learn about one another and to interact around controversial issues. 

The conversation highlights how reducing perception gaps through better listening and understanding can help bridge political divides and foster more productive conversations in schools and beyond.

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In this Courageous Conversation, host Ken Futernick and Dr. Jonathan Zimmerman, a professor of History of Education at the University of Pennsylvania, delve into the heated debates surrounding American schooling. They explore the historical roots of compulsory education, analyze the recent Supreme Court ruling (Mahmoud v. Taylor) on opt-outs for LGBTQ+-friendly texts, and discuss the rise of unregulated homeschooling. Zimmerman shares concerns about the future of civic education and our ability to bridge divides, offering insights on how to foster courageous conversations in schools.

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In this episode, host Ken Futernick sits down with Bruce Wasser, a former history teacher whose life story is as inspiring as his teaching career. Bruce shares his poignant journey from being a conscientious objector during the Vietnam War to becoming a beloved educator who had a profound impact on his students. Listen as Bruce recounts the pivotal moments that shaped his life, including the influence of his high school basketball coach and the challenges he faced in standing up for his beliefs. The episode also features Julia Damer, a former student of Bruce's, who shares her experiences in his classroom and the lasting impact he had on her life. The conversation highlights the reciprocal influence between teachers and students, as well as the enduring power of education to inspire change.

The conversation also raises an important question about the kind of influence one would want teachers to have on their students. Bruce says, “I am in the business [of teaching] so I can help young men and women become proud, strong citizens, loving their country when it's right and earnestly trying to change it when it's wrong.” Might such an approach to teaching lead to indoctrination? Do we want history teachers taking on such a role, or should they stick to historical facts? “If that's indoctrination,” Bruce says, “I'll plead guilty to it, but I don't think you can teach any subject blandly or without any kind of conviction.” Later, Bruce explains that he wants his students to find their voice, to stand up for principle, whether or not it aligns with their teachers’ or classmates’ perspectives. “I would always try to find my way to stand next to the minority opinion, always stand close to that man or woman who's standing up and arguing for principle, and I would tell 'em you might be one person facing a hurricane, but you've got to have strong roots. You have to have the courage of your convictions. These are your friends. Don't worry about being in the minority.”

Discover how Bruce's experiences as a young man shaped his teaching philosophy and the lasting legacy he left in the classroom. This episode is a testament to the power of education and the importance of nurturing young minds to challenge the status quo and strive for a better world.

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This story starts with a bag of shoes that helped a school community heal after the tragic deaths of two students. That story blossomed into a unique project called the “Shoe Club” that fosters empathy and breaks barriers in a Michigan middle school. The founder of the club and guest on this episode is Matt Hamilton, a 2025 Horace Mann and NEA Award-winning teacher from East Jordan Public Schools in Michigan.

The Club has gotten national attention with inscribed shoe donations from the likes of Jane Goodall, Michael Jordan, moon-walking astronaut Chalie Duke, Dolly Parton, and a Nobel Peace Prize recipient. 

Hear about the unique requirements for joining the Shoe Club, which now include reading the book Value Up, co-authored by Hamilton. Students also donate one of their own shoes with a meaningful inscription. Matt explains how the club evolved to include community service and the creation of dream boards, all designed to empower students with a sense of purpose. 

Joining Matt are two student Club members from East Jordan: Hannah Wyman, an eighth-grader active in theater, and Rylan McVannel, an eleventh-grader with a passion for disc golf. Both are integral to the Shoe Club's story and offer firsthand perspectives on its significance within their school community.

A central theme of the conversation is the concept of students wearing "masks" and the pain that can lie hidden beneath the surface. Matt, Hannah, and Rylan discuss the Shoe Club's role in encouraging students to see beyond these facades and creating a safe space for understanding and connection. They share powerful insights into how the club promotes listening, appreciating diverse perspectives, and bridging the powerful forces that often divide students. 

For educators intrigued by the Shoe Club, Matt generously offers guidance on how educators and students elsewhere can start something similar in their own schools. 

This episode is a testament to the power of a teacher's vision and the remarkable capacity of students to create positive change. Through the simple yet profound act of sharing stories and "walking in each other's shoes," the Shoe Club in East Jordan is a powerful antidote to division and a beacon of hope for building more empathetic and connected school communities.

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How many of us would have the courage to have a conversation with someone who hates us? My guest, Daryl Davis, has done just that, not once, but for decades, with members of the Ku Kluz Klan and other hate groups, and many have renounced their ideology after getting to know him. A Black musician, Davis shares his unbelievable story driven by one powerful question: "How can you hate me when you don't even know me?" Prepare to be challenged to rethink how we and our students engage with those who seem the furthest from us.  

Here are some of Davis’s key recommendations for educators: 

• Create opportunities for students to engage with and learn from people with unfamiliar backgrounds and perspectives. Go beyond designated "diversity" events or months.
• Teach history honestly, including the shameful parts that students can learn from.
• Encourage students to “walk across the cafeteria” and to have conversations with those outside of their affinity group. Davis attributes his propensity for empathy to his early school experiences in highly diverse classrooms.)
• Encourage students to form groups based on common interests rather than race or ethnicity.

Notable quotes about Daryl Davis:

"Daryl Davis is a national treasure—he's living proof it's possible to talk people out of their hate...If everyone followed his lead, the world would be a more respectful, thoughtful place." - Adam Grant, #1 New Your Times bestselling author, host of Re: Thinking podcast

"I have a lot of respect for Daryl Davis." - Former KKK Imperial Wizard

"Daryl Davis has proven that when you open your heart to someone, you give them a chance to open their heart to you." - Morgan Freeman, Academy Award-winning actor, producer, and narrator. 

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This episode is part of our series on our sister podcast, Teacher Stories, on what schools can do to help save our democracy. Guests include Dr. Marvin W. Berkowitz, McDonnell Professor of Character Education at the Center for Character Education and Citizenship at the University of Missouri at St. Louis, and Dr. Kashina Bell, Deputy Superintendent for the School District of University City in St. Louis, Missouri. Both talk about character education - what it looks like, how it's done, and why it's vital to our democracy.

"I think the concept of the common good as a concept is an endangered species in democracies," Dr. Berkowitz says. "Every educator affects kids' character. And we want them to do it intentionally, and positively, and effectively...There is no moral future without moral children, and there's no democratic future without democratic children. Education is a critical piece of that."

Speaking about her former role as a school principal, Dr. Bell says, "I inherited a school that was really forgotten about...The teachers didn't want to be there. The kids didn't want to be there...We began the process of bringing our system back to health...We began establishing some values...We rooted ourselves in a common language to define our collective and individual responsibility to one another as well as to the community." In addition to boosting academic achievement, Bell says, "...our kids were no longer running away from the school. They really wanted to be in school, and they began to thrive."

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